Skyward Sword's Biggest Mistake | Let's Talk About #63
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- Опубліковано 27 лип 2024
- Skyward Sword has a problem, and it's much more than the Motion Controls. Today I'm talking about the biggest mistake in the game, and how that mistake was used to create a new timeline for BotW.
Patreon:
patreon.com/PixelFusionProductions
Chapters:
0:00 The Intro
1:34 The Time Loop
7:18 The Consequences
12:36 A Timeline Unraveled
16:10 The Future
18:48 Closing - Ігри
I think the problem comes from the big lore of Zelda games. The new directors are probably afraid to destroy the lore of old Zelda games.
Creating a new timeline make them more free
I think a simple solution is to reach out to the community and hire a Lore Master. I heard that Sega recently did this for Sonic.
After "Tears of the Kingdom" that's clearly not the case.
I actually really like the idea of Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom being a divergent timeline, if we look at the context given within the stories it does make some sense
It's such an elegant solution to this problem. It means they could revisit old story beats but have them be different. If this is the same Ganondorf, but from a different timeline, then everything can fit well.
Check out my video on Amiibo where I provide evidence supporting this timeline split idea.
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Great Video! I wish the directors and writers for the latest games would just come out and admit these newest games are their own reality, and not connected the main time-line. I've accepted it, and many content creators have. We just want an official answer so the "healing" can begin.
I think my logic supports how this could be a spinoff from SS stands, and it has the elegance of keeping the past continuity alive... just in a different reality.
Time travel and alternate dimension logic makes my brain explode sometimes 🤯
The fact that we can talk to Hylia has always confused me due to the SS re-incarnation story. Plus a huge plot of BOTW was that Zelda wasn't able to communicate with the Goddess statues .... but we can chat any old time? It felt cheep. I get they used it for the hearts / stamina trading, but TOTK just doubled down on this by being able to fix the Mother Goddess statue and get the White Sword as a reward.
I definitely want them to move away from stories in the past as they just keep having to go further and further back.
If they were to re-release these 2 games with extra content, but you have to purchase the whole game again..... I would NOT be impressed. The DLC additions for botw were a suitable way to fill in gaps and add more contect, without requiring a huge amount of money to obtain. Yes it might net them a bit more profit, but for those who are more casual gamer / lower budget..... personally I would be ticked off by that a lot
The toppled statue quest does raise a few questions as it is a clear reference to SS, and yet, the Forgotten doesn't seem to be the Sealed Temple from SS.
If they would just be straight forward, it would make us all happy. If they are not in the same timeline, just say so. If they are though, we need some explanation...
They would likely spin it as an updated enhanced version. Use all the marketing talk to spin it as anything other than DLC. To be fair, 60 fps 1080p would be in upgrade. If they actually made a console that could do 4k 60fps, I would be happy to purchase again.
@PixelFusionProductions I get that for the older games... like releasing TP onto the switch (please). But these games especially TOTK... aren't even old yet. We barely got it and if they were to do this soon.... it just almost laughs in the face of what we just got.
but i was wondering how this could be the case with the Forgotten Temple. What is it? in TotK we see Rauru and the Secret stones but most of the area is blocked out by effects and dimming to make it hard to see. BUT its the EXACT SPOT where the statue is but the ground is WAY different. Im wondering what it is honestly. why did it look Zonai then become to look like Sky loft style? @@PixelFusionProductions
But why is the statue not there in Raurus time? is the temple supposed to be elsewhere and not in that valley in the cutscene? What if its his castle deep underground in a vault? cuz the memory cutscenes of sonia and ganondorf show its HIGH up and the tears of the dragon cutscene show its a BIG structure from a few angles. I wonder if they moved it and styled it after skyloft? WAIT
IT JUST POPPED IN MY HEAD WHY DOES RAURU LOOK LIKE THAT!??? HES THE BIRDS
THE SKYLOFT BIRD (name escapes me) they EVOLVED LIKE THE ZORA INTO RITO IN WINDWAKER
THEY CAME FROM THE HEAVENS WHERE THE LOFTWINGS ARE FROM
Just looked up and they are called a Shoebill and they look like him, same stance and kinda look like the dragons when they eat a secret stone (not Zelda she looks different cuz shes not Zonai)
but he looks like a Goat? But those ears dont... a Fennec Fox? no... cant be.... he doesnt look like a bird except hes got similiar behaviours to that of a Shoebill (what the loftwings are designed after)
This is on wikipedia bout the Shoebill
"The shoebill is noted for its slow movements and tendency to stay still for long periods, resulting in descriptions of the species as "statue-like". This species stalks its prey patiently, in a slow and lurking fashion. While hunting, the shoebill strides very slowly and is frequently motionless. Unlike some other large waders, this species hunts entirely using vision and is not known to engage in tactile hunting. When prey is spotted, it launches a quick violent strike. However, depending on the size of the prey, handling time after the strike can exceed 10 minutes."
Sounds like Rauru sneaking out to go hunting before Sonia went to put a stop to it lol. Also How did he attack Ganondorf again? " it launches a quick violent strike"
although given the size it def took longer than 10 minutes. Zeltik mentions that while they were sealed and slowly mummifying that he was actually slowing pushing ganondorf back into that "How low can ya go" pose you find him in the beginning of the game. And yeah i think i know what my next theory is while i slowly work on that FengShui video. Is he a chimera? is he evolved? some weird hybrid? IDK lol but its def something to think about
Thanks for getting the gears turning in my brain. Really needed it!
Finally got to watching your video and at 1:22 i agree so much! still think so!
Ill be adding as i watch lol.
6:22 i had people in my comments debating this exact issue lol I totally think it caused a split in the timeline.
7:06 making these theory videos takes a lot of work time and dedication. And you do an amazing job. So im glad im already subbed, btw thanks for watching my video and sorry for taking forever to watch yours and leave a comment.
7:44 Also had seen people say impa's outfit is hiding the sword behind her back which, sure that makes sense but wed see teh tablet its in im sure.
9:26 Yeah the Fujibayashi Timeline, Reboot Timeline, Parallel Alternate Reality Timeline, we need a name for it lol
10:27 YEAH I think that is exactly what happened.
10:42 IM NOT CRAZY Man i feel so glad i aint the only one that thinks that could be how the new timeline is! Thank you for making this, so glad i found your channel
11:12 I still think its a Lorule situation, I mean its ocarina events reversed (Zelda travels through time not link, among many other things) the mentions of other games and stuff the fact it goes from ocarina of time to a link to the past imprisoning war god i love this series. I kinda think theres Fromsoftware like lore too
11:29 It also explains why to this day they wont tell us the placement on the timeline and the websites show them not connected to the others. And i think there next game may show more evidence that its a Soft Reboot Timeline. Its totally a Lorule connection or majoras mask situation. Think of it this way, maybe the sea will flood and their next game will combine windwaker, twilight princess like Tears of the Kingdom did.
12:00 Basically we can use the OG 3 way split timeline to help answer questions in this game. Why did ganondorf want to attack Hyrule? cuz his people due to the desert as told in windwaker, why did he give up on the gerudo? The secert stone awakened his inner darkness, and became an actual Demon. Hes no longer human, ("demise" is a title we all know this) Ganondorf is the Bringer of Demise the Demon King. Just the stuff we cant answer like if Hyrule was actually ever flooded at one point maybe as i said earlier but we wont know obviously right away. Was these items from the earlier games legit? and if so how? or did they fall through timelines like how link traveled to termina? or are they the same items just with different events. Like for all we know before the Zonai Ancient Hero or even after but before BotW, how many Links from Skyward Sword to Botw? Did they help someone in the Twilight Realm to get the Sword that pierced Ganondorf in TP? Was the main enemy a calamity too like if Twilight Princess did happen, did Calamity Ganon trick Zant in this universe? i mean we seen him in TP as a big floating gold head of energy! So this is a long way of saying i cant wait to see that "Creating a champion" book but for TotK and i cant wait to see their next game.
AND just got to Part 3 at 12:38
12:54 ok so before i said we can answer questions bout one timeline with the other right? Ok so you say here that TotK changed meaning in Botw so heres a weird idea but i kinda believe it. What if and stay with me Botw is in both Timelines. but TotK is only in one. AND the BotW we play... is a weird hybrid of BOTH. Somehow. Clicking play again lmao
13:16 Ok i assumed she was related moreso to Sonia, as Sonia has Time power and Hylia is the Goddess of Time, and so Hylia reincarnated as Zelda. But shes not named Zelda? Well in all the Old Games the Hero can be renamed and the "Ancient Hero" isnt named Link. Sure the manuals state Links name in the games that you can rename him in as Link but he is "A Link between the Play and game" so we could apply that Logic here. Also Her mom was alive too when she was, it aint like Avatar the Last airbender like a lot of people thought (can be debated for the other games but not BotW at least) and we dont know her name, could be Zelda or not. Cuz Zelda of BotW has Time and Light powers, so yeah she is of Zonai descent totally but what im saying is Sonia had Hylias spirit in her too im sure. Thats how i see it. Still dont know why the Zonai Hero has red hair tho. Doing a theory on Feng Shui, life energy and somehow started looking into Celestial Spheres and yeah i think my Shiekha Tech is Alchemy may be more true than i thought lmao but Alchemy has 5 elements which one of which is Aether, and in the old days before Isaac Newton "created" gravity (idk why i think saying that is just funny lol) he did research on Aether and it has a lot to do with Light, and the heavens and yeah its a rabbit hole lol sorry getting distracted lol
13:21 that always confused me even back in that game cuz how can she talk to you if she reincarnated. I mean is she talking through the statue like Tetra does that stone but across time and space? I mean look at this franchise... maybe!
13:37 and none of that sounds like what happens in Ocarina, meaning that this version of events, This game isnt just a retelling, its an alternate reality of the same events just SUPER out of order and mixed up with the events leading up to A link to the past. Honestly feels like RE4Make where it feels familiar yet different and new. I havent played the Dead Space Remake but from what ive seen, they did it too.) "Hey what if we remade Zelda 1? BotW. hey what if we remade Ocarina of Time? TotK"
14:56 I was using the Free cam in Tears and i swear sometimes from the surface, the islands do look invisible at some angles, so i moved the camera REALLY fast. And its way more noticable of an effect. They were invisble til that barrier made them visible alright. That freecam comes in handy lol but i agree, its gotta be Zonai Tech doing it.
Oh i also figured out where Raurus Castle was, River of the Dead above and next to the Shrine of Ressurection. In the cutscene where Ganondorf transforms, before his left arm comes into frame you can see the Great Plateu of the present architecture that was damaged from the events in BotW still, they forgot to replace it and so its in the prerendered video lol. You can see a Zonai shrine in the distance too. 16:32 !
15:48 I wonder if those 4 Hyruleans are similair to the Chamberlain in the Stone Tablets on the Flower Islands in the sky. Shes never shown in cutscenes but shes mentioned at least.
Games story feels so disjointed it feels like Elden Ring all over again lol
16:23 Really think they should do DLC weird they aint even gonna do Master mode. I sure hope your right that we will get a a Directors Cut
17:25 Back to the "BotW is on both Timelines" idea. People also dont know if the DLC is canon or not. Maybe its not to TotK but it is if the game takes place in the OG Timeline.
Sorry for the wall of text but great video! Whole heartedly agree with your video! And i really need to get to playin FF6. FF7remake is great your gonna love it!
You do seem rather excited about my video, thank you. I won't respond to everything, but one part of your response sticks out because I was literally investigating this hours ago for this week's video... the background of the Birth if the Demon King cutscene.
I knew that Rauru's castle was located up there already, but was delighted to find hard proof of one of the camera angles used during his transformation. Specifically I was looking for Great Plateu Shrines, and to be honest, the one on the far west side of the plateau (Riogok Shrine) makes sense to be there even in the present. You can see part of the wall, and it seems to be the same stonework as from the present though, which may be a mistake... I can't confirm it, but this will be coming up on a future video.
One more thing about Rauru's castle, While it was above the Shrine of Resurrection, the angle of the Demon King transformation implies it was slightly higher than the cliffface there. It is as though the cliff itself, was damaged when the Castle disappeared. Again, this will be talked about in a upcoming video.
Stay tuned for more. This week's video is about The Bargainer.
Awesome video as always! It's kind of relieving to see more LoZ fans and therefore theorists talking about what we have just experienced in TotK. Every cave in that world instigated me to imagine hidden temples and sanctuaries. And that happened countless times! But I'm still mad about how they portraied Ganondorf. And Zelda. It's like their are and are not the sames from BotW. The consistence in themes through the narrative in BotW is great. The Wildness of the map Nintendo's team made for BotW doesn't shared a theme with TotK narrative, for example.
Also, I wasn't aware of the SS narrative error! Very cool. Maybe you can make more videos about old discussions, even tho they dont have a conclusion. I like your conclusions hahah
It is sadly common for there to be errors in Time Travel narratives like this. I have no idea how they could be so spot on with the Bracelet and Amber, but then completely overlook the sword at the end. There is a similar problem with TotK and the Master Sword appearing in the Light Dragon. I think I'll talk about that more, maybe even next week since I did this Time Travel video this week. No promises though.
There's another discrepancy: Demise is defeated and is seemingly no longer in the sealed grounds to be destroyed by the Triforce. There are two things I do to fix this as well as the Master Sword discrepancy.
First, seeing as we do not see the sword beforehand until the post-credits scene and The End screen, I can assume this was an oversight and done purely for cinematics. This will preserve not having the sword there, as is the case for the entire game up to that point.
Second, to account for the sword going missing after being left in the past, I think that Impa created the sealing spike around the sword, and placed it in the Sealed Grounds and remade the seal on the ground. This would account for Demise not being there to be pounded back into the ground three times, smashed by a building and a statue and a piece of land, and then erased from existence by the literal solidified essence of the gods.
It would also give a place for Demise's "residual consciousness" to go, explain what happened to it, as we never canonically see him ever again even though he's supposedly decaying in the Master Sword - it would make sense that his spirit wouldn't give up so easily, and he's built his strength back up over so many thousands of years and was trying to escape again, and would give credence to his delays at escaping, having to break out of not only the same sealing circle originally placed by Hylia, but also the Master Sword, a sealing spike created with magic and runes specifically to keep him sealed and which is augmented by the power of the Master Sword, and all of Zelda's further augmentations of the seal courtesy of her being sealed in consecrated amber for thousands of years.
This also fixes the discrepancy of him not being in the sword come Tears of the Kingdom - a lot of people were expecting him to come out of the Master Sword when it broke, but with this, we know he's wasn't in the sword anyways because he was purged from it and from existence at large by the Triforce.
And finally, as an extra bonus, it would help explain how the Sealing Spike reacts so well to Skyward Strikes and to the Goddess Sword and Master Sword when making stronger sealing circle runes after beating Demise back into it. If the spike was made to house the Master Sword, and react with the sword's power, it would make sense that Link can control it using the Master Sword from the present, and why it so immediately reinforced the seal to fully contain Demise's escape attempt when you first arrive on the Surface.
It fixes a lot of things.
Also as for where I would place BotW and TotK, I would place it after whichever timeline it's in - but a very, VERY long time afterwards. So long, that Hyrule falls and Rauru's kingdom is a re-founding, and then the first calamity is ten thousand years after that, and every ten thousand years another calamity happens until 100 years before BotW, then BotW, then TotK. I do not place it in between Skyward Sword and OoT like some people are trying to do.
The idea that the sword was concealed in the sealing spike is an interesting proposal, but one I'm hesitant to accept without something in-game to go along with it. I don't like the idea that Impa would end up effectively undoing the defeat Demise when he was safely contained in the Master Sword and left to decay. I'm not saying your idea is wrong, I would just like to see more evidence to back it up, evidence I'm fairly certain doesn't exist.
To me, it seems more likely that the act of leaving the Master Sword in the past simply caused a fork in time, a new split. Somehow that action resulted in the Goddess Statue coming down to the surface. It could be in this new reality, the statue was lowered to the surface for a different reason, we simply don't know. All we know is that the Triforce is there with it.
There are many unanswered questions, and I honestly don't care to speculate about a potential new timeline of events to justify the discrepancies, I've compensated enough for bad writing in this series. That being said, I stand by my idea that Fujibayashi wanted to use this situation as a means of rebooting the series.
Consider that the Triforce being on the surface with Hylians returning to the surface could have been the thing to draw attention from a race of powerful entities... The Zonai. Perhaps the connection with them led the developing kingdom and the Sheikah to grow in ways more closely connected to nature, something that resembles Shintoism.
I think the most simple conclusion though, instead of engaging in all these gymnastics to make things fit, is to simply accept BotW & TotK as their continuity. I'm on the fence about whether SS is canon to them, though I really want this theory to be true... but I am not going to fall victim to what many of my fellow content creators do and present my theory as fact. Likewise, I will only consider things stated in BotW & TotK to be factual if backed by its own story.
One example would be that there is a Spirit of the Master Sword. It makes sounds like what we hear in Skyward Sword. However, this does not mean that the Spirit of the Master Sword is Fi from Skyward Sword, or that her name is even Fi. Unless that is stated in BotW & TotK, it is an assumption people are taking for fact, and that is a fallacy.
Nice video. Thank you for uploading!
I like seeing content that explores the older games. Maybe someday you could talk about the Oracle games and the Minish Cap? The GB entries don't get enough love!
Perhaps. I only played Ages, and that was shortly after it released. My interest in those games is largely in Twinrova, though I did bring up the Harp of Ages in my musical instrument video a couple years ago.
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Agree, its a reboot. I can see why they didnt announce it as they like us theory crafting
I think it's simply a case of being too cowardly to say it aloud. In Japanese culture, there is a lot of implying and not saying, and so you kind of have to use confirmation by omissions to figure it out. If they continue to refuse saying something, then it comes across as admissions from omission.
It's a reboot.
I actually really like the placing of the master sword in the hyrulean pedestal. It represents the grounding of the series, sealing the cycle of demise's curse both diegetically and metanarritively, it simultaneously locks off the people's past in the sky and opens up their future on land, and shows that though the cycle will continue, ultimately Link and Zelda will break it and come out victorious.
If it was pre-ordained that the master sword would be resting fully forged, that would kind of spoil how the story would end. And yeah, we know we're gonna win as the player, but you need to at least have the suspension of disbelief to think losing is possible.
I myself don't really care about the disconnect between games, and if this makes that worse, cause the series has always been about the individual stories. The larger story is not something I really value about the games, so if they worsened Skyward Swords story for the benefit of "tidying up" the timeline, I wouldn't be happy with that.
Skyward Sword was created with the timeline in mind, it was designed to give an origin for the Master Sword, for Ganon, and an explanation for for why they always have conflict over the Triforce. As such, SS exists in a way to give credence to the Timeline.
That being said, my criticism here regarding the placement of the sword is that it doesn't make sense within its own time-travel logic. I'm not talking about the timeline as a whole at the moment, I'm talking about the story present inside of Skyward Sword, they screw up their own logic. That is fair criticism.
My statement in this video is how Fujibayashi may have decided to take the mistake he made with the story, and attempted to free himself from the Timeline by basically creating a new branch.
I've theorized for many years now, about what I am calling "time echoes" in the Zelda series. A time echo would allow two points of time to over lap, and only the future is updated, while the past is unaltered. It's why time shift stones operate the way they do, allowing Link to pluck the same extinct flower over and over, without expediting the climate change. It is also why the tree of life was not present before Link went back in time to plant it. The time shift stones bring an echo of the past forward, while the portal in the sealed grounds sends an echo into the past. I think updating the past, in SS, requires the intervention of a deity level individual, ie Hylia or Demise. This is why Demise exclaims that he conquered time, before the final battle. The Master Sword's presence follows the logic of the Tree of Life, which is something Link does, through the portal. the Fixed time-loop stuff follows the logic of deity level individuals making use of the portals.
The Timeshift Stones are very interesting, however, I am reluctant to take anything like repeated harvesting of materials via them as hard canon. I believe the idea is simply that, when they are active, you are in a bubble of physically different time so many years in the past. Time tracks at the same rate between them.
As for Demise "conquering time", I wish we had more context as to that claim. It feels... superficial to me, if there is more to it, it should have been stated in the game somewhere.
@@PixelFusionProductions It's more than the harvesting. It's the entire tree of life and dragon resurrection quest line. We see all time travel, in that game, involving Hylia and possibly Demise result in a closed time loop. Link's time travel only takes effect in the present. This also tracks with what we see with the Ocarina of Time. When Link uses it in MM, the past is always reset, yet the end (future) sees the benefits of all Link's time travel loops, where he never meats himself. Yet, when Zelda uses the instrument at the end of OoT, there is a full time split.
The theory has been kicked around for a few years, and time echoes has a lot of explanation power for the series as a whole including the presence of the Master Sword pedestal at the end of SS
@RyuuKageDesu I need to review the situation with the fruit specifically before I address this comment. I'll respond later.
@@RyuuKageDesu After thinking about it, this is the conclusion I'm drawing. Please note that I realize there are some issues with this related to the consistency of time travel in the series, and I personally now think that Time Shift Stones are Extremely Dangerous to causality.
The stones create a bubble of alter space transporting all things in that bubble to a specific point of time X number of years away. In the case of Lanaryu, it was very fortunate (and convenient) that this happened to line up with the major events of the present. Because Lanayru is a pile of bones in the present, it is clear that he did not survive his illness. Using the stones, Link is able to interact with the past, get the seeds, grow them in the present, and then take the fruit to the past for Lanayru. In giving the dragon the fruit and curing his ailment, the present changes to reflect that new reality.
Here is my explanation.
The bubble created by the stones is altering reality. More specifically, reality is updating within that bubble to reflect the changes to the past. I am inclined to say that these changes to the past are real, and that they are modifying the existing timeline and not creating a new one. I know this is inconsistent with the rest of the series involving timeline logic, but that really is the only thing that makes sense to me at this moment. It would also mean that this is Extremely Dangerous.
Basically, if that model is true, then you overwrite parts of the present in ways that simply do not make sense. It is also possible, though I would say unlikely, that this type of function is happening in the ending of the game. The Gates of Hylia are made of Time Shift Stones after all. The gates don't seem to function like the stones though as they create, well... a Gate to the past, and not say... blanketing the Sealed Temple or an even greater area with a time bubble.
At the end of the day, I stand by my thoughts that SS split off into a new timeline due to the Master Sword being left behind. I would say though, it is possible that SS is acting as thought there is a single linear timeline of events, and changes tot he past ripple forward changing the future. IF this is the case, then SS time travel is incompatible with the time travel we see in Ocarina that lead to the timeline spit we all know and love.
That's all I got on this, at least for now. Who knows, perhaps I will make a video talking about all this time travel nonsense.
@@PixelFusionProductions Timelines splitting was always the exception, not the rule.
A reboot of the zelda universe or a divergent timeline after the events of skyward sword makes more sense to me than a convergent timeline. Convergence of timeline to me seems like the merging of 2 parallel individuals into one. which is absurd. person A is married to person B in timeline 1 but is married to person C in timeline 2. when the timeline merges what happens to person A? what happens to person B and C? I cannot wrap my head around the convergence theory.
I always viewed it as "it's been so long that everything from all timelines happened because it's been just that much time"
The convergence theory overlooks how New Hyrule from Spirit Tracks is in a physically different location, likely another continent. Also, you can't just merge timeline, it's nonsensical and show a fundamental lack of understanding of timelines and causality.
They do seem to have been trying to wash their hands of the timeline burden by moving it over 10,000 years in the future. That doesn't work, especially when they insist on referencing old material like stuff in SS.
what if it was a convergence in a separate timeline
It really never made sense to me either because Adult timeline just fundamentally does not have any ties to what Botw does.
-World belongs to the people at the end, not demons and gods
-People have 0 reason to return to old Hyrule, which is the only way Ganondorf would be reawakened
-The sea just randomly drained, I guess
Ok, I know you guys will probably disagree, but this is not the first time they've done this, they already had done it 26 years ago with Ocarina of time. Despite the developers saying it was a prequel to a link to the past, the game seems to be actively trying to disprove that. Even if we ignore the manual of Alttp which contradicts every single plot point in Oot, the maidens in the game itself tell us a completely different story from the one in Oot, as much as Nintendo wants to ignore it and cope with it with things like the "downfall timeline" (which solves only one problem and creates many more), Oot was the definition of a reboot, Oot was a new beginning for the series, just like Botw, which is also most likely a reboot. The following games enforced this, if there was the slightest possibility that alttp could take place after oot, it was annihilated by Twilight Princess.
Close to the release of Totk I was sure the game was going to only consider botw and take distance from the rest, just like Wind waker and Twilight princess, and I was worried that fans were setting themselves up for dissapointment, and lo and behold, it is exactly what happened. Botw is to Oot what Oot was to alttp.
Now, going forward, if we believe that Nintendo will mantain their style, this is what we can expect. All open air games following Totk will take place in this new continuity, just like the 3d games took place after Oot and not Alttp. However, if a different team for example created a new linear 3d Zelda, then there's a good chance it would fall in the classic timeline, just like games like the minish cap, four swords adventures or a link between worlds completely ignored Oot and continued Alttp's story.
I believe the connection from Ocarina to Link to the Past is a story untold right now. I don't believe it was something as simple as Link being killed by Ganon. Whenever a Time Split occurs, it has always involves the Master Sword. I think the Hero's Defeat that led to that Imprisoning War involves something critical for the Master Sword.
Someday I will make a theory about that.
@@PixelFusionProductions That's not really the issue. It doesn't matter what time travel theory you use, the only way it could work is if such split happened hundreds of years between the games.
Go to alttp's videos at the end of each dark world dungeon and see what the maidens say. If you want to overkill it, read the manual. Just as an example, in alttp they explain no one remembered how to enter the sacred realm, and Ganondorf encountered it by accident but didn't know how to leave. This is exactly the opposite of what happens in Oot, where Zelda knows how to enter, Ganondorf PLANS to get in, and leaves it to rule Hyrule
@@santiagopomares6287 Believe me, I am very familiar with the story and lore of Link to the Past. I am not defending the problems there, but Ocarina of Time was created as a prequel with those events in mind.
I view the time travel at the end of Skyward Sword as an elder scrolls style dragonbreak.
I am not a fan of the Dragon Break logic. Considering that Zelda already had established logic for timeline splits via Ocarina to Wind Waker and Twlight Princess, there is no need to introduce new and poorly thought out time travel mechanics.
@@PixelFusionProductions, with all of the evidence from the end of Skyward Sword, it has to be a dragonbreak. If Demise was sealed in the Master Sword in the past, Link wouldn’t have needed to use the Triforce wish to cause the isle of the goddess to crush the Imprisoned. During the end cutscene we see the statue where it was before the time travel to defeat Demise with the Master Sword in the pedestal simultaneously. That is downright impossible with timeline split logic.
The lore is crazy
It's less crazy when they don't mess up their stories.
The pedestal for the sword is not in the same place in every game. The sword doesn't have to be in the same place all the time. Evidently it moves between heroes. So, it got moved so Link wouldn't take the fully awakened sword.
You are missing the point. Statue falls, Demise is destroyed, Zelda abducted, and Link follows. In that room, the Master Sword is NOT in the pedestal, nor is a pedestal even present.
Link goes back in time, beats Demise, places the Sword in the Pedestal in front of the double doors, then they go to the present. This all happens in, I would say, less than a hour. When they return to the present, the Master Sword is in the pedestal in front of the doors.
Explain this. It seems like when Link and Zelda traveled forward to the present, they ended up in a different timeline... one in which the statue fell from Skyloft and yet Demise was sealed in the sword.
i hope the movie gives the franchise a better direction
I'll hold back my opinions on it until we are given a trailer. No doubt there will be some complaints about voice actors... as always.
Thanks!
Thank you very much!
I want hook shot back
We all do.
Ignoring my personal reading of SS's story and how the real plothole is not the master sword being there but rather the swordstone itself(It was legit not there before, it appeared out of thin air), I don't quite see how this really ties together in the end. The problem is selfcontained to SS and I don't see how this logically causes a split(Even in OOT, timetravel is shown to be corrective rather than subdivisive, as for example Spirit temple shows. The big adult/child split storywise comes from Zelda using timemagic wrong and forcefully seperating the timeperiods. And Fallen Hero is something else, we can ignore that one). And even if it did, it would lead to one world without any master sword at all because it was taken back in time to be left in the past for timeline 2, which cannot be the case in this theory because OOT and beyond in the old timeline still have it around.
Otherwise, I actually agree with the idea of Botw being a reboot of sorts because...beyond fans putting together what would theoretically be the most likely timeline for the game to be in(iirc, downfall), the only games its story *actually* solidly implies are canon to it are SS and OOT, it completely shook away any real continuity to everything but the two most fundamental games to the IP's modern mythos. That's just what one does in a reboot, we all were kinda delusional trying to fit everything into one box here.
Also, TotK being ignored by me because I admit, I didn't personally play that game for money reasons and didn't come around to properly reading up its story yet, so I don't want to lay hand on it because I would probably butcher its lore. I also admittedly heard people say it is surprisingly inconsistent with Botw as is, so I imagine the topic becoming dicey even once I eventually go back to study its text.
I'll try to explain the pedestal problem. You are correct that it appears out of nowhere, it was not there when you chase after Giraham at the end of the game, I have footage showcasing this. Link defeats Demise and then puts the Sword in the new present Pedestal at Fi request. They go through the gate and then in the Present, the Sword is there Pedestal and all.
This conflicts with earlier in the game, for no pedestal or Master Sword in it is in that spot. My proposal is that when Link left the Sword in the past, and then they traveled forward through the gate, they ended up in a new reality, a split from leaving the Sword in the past.
This split reality is interesting because it would seem that Demise was defeated by Link AND the Godess Statue fell to the land with the Trifirce assembled. Those two things are in conflict with each other.
Anyhow, it my belief that Fujibayashi intended to use this ending to justify a reboot going into BotW. Apparently Sky Zonai people showed up in the early construction of the kingdom?
I don't have all the answers, but this explanation makes enough sense and would preserve the old timeline while starting a new one.
the sky barrier isnt really seen in skyward. its an illusion to surface dwellers just like in botw. idk why youre coping so hard about it. Really glad you think outside the box though, please do more theories people are so afraid to do them but this vid rules.
Thank you, I've been spouting this concept since before TotK came out. When TotK came out, I basically threw it out because I didn't think there was enough connection to even have it and BotW be part of Skyward Sword. I'm revisiting this theory now again.
As for the Cloud Barrier, It's mainly that I see others keep saying that Zelda dispelled the Cloud Barrier at the start of the game. She didn't, it isn't the one from Skyward Sword, and the game states the islands were visible when the castle rose into the sky.
glad your revisiting this theory honestly cuz your not the only one that thinks this. I agree 100% @@PixelFusionProductions
This is as good a theory as matpat’s. Quite honestly. Very well thought out, good job!
Thank you. I've been sitting on this for a year or more now. When thinking about why they wouldn't commit to a timeline placement and reviewing the BotW connections, I came to realize the game couldn't fit in any timeline properly. As such, I started thinking about what could have happened, and this SS situation came to mind.
I actually gave up on this theory shortly after TotK because it felts as though there wasn't enough connective tissue to even tie the game to SS. I'm still shaky about that too, but I really like the idea of this continuity split off of the ending in SS.
Ingenious, really. Never would of thought about that in the first place.
Honestly someone in my comments on my Timeline video, they mentioned Minish Cap? I mean its possible but idk. Its def before Ocarina. And if this game is a retelling alternate reality version of Ocarina... then Aonuma saying "This takes place after Ocarina of Time" Still makes sense. @@PixelFusionProductions
Oh yeah which also has Light force and Life Force is mentioned in Phantom Hourglass which could have something to do with Feng Shui (see other comment i made lol sorry for all the comments. Hey at least it helps the algorithm lol)
perhaps the mistake lies not with the writing but rather with the viewer iv looked into zelda time travel and there is a consistency that is often over looked like how you were looking at a scenerio where link is not the original time traveler impa went through time first as such link never went to the past he went to the present
The time travel presented at the end of Skyward Sword is clearly contradictory with its own rules. Please explain to me how the character returned to a present in which Demise was destroyed both in the past by Link and the Triforce in the present.
I explain my case rather well in this video. The contradiction is that Handing off the Bracelet and the situation with the Amber were modifications to the past that show up in the present (start of the game). As such, if Link went back in time and defeated Demise, sealed him in the Master Sword, then the Sword should be there at the start of the game just like the Amber and the Bracelet. That however is not the case, and thus, there is a flaw in the time travel logic.
@@PixelFusionProductions there are three times in the game where something does not exist that at face value should first the tree that link plants if it existed before he planted it he never would have planted it second the amber is missing when zelda is inthe time in which she should still be in amber the third is the sword what all three of these have in common is the potencial paradox also link never goes to the past in skyward sword as impa went to the future first thus her time is the present so the rules of time travel apply differently than most people assume
@@darkdagger5237 Yes, the Time Travel in the game has problems. This is the basis of my video, so I'm not sure why you are bringing that up. This was talked about when the game first came out, I was apart of those discussions.
The point of my video, is that Fujibayashi may have chosen to use the screwed-up ending he created to justify a new branch in the timeline, one based around Link leaving the Master Sword in the past at the end of the game. That branch leads to BotW and TotK.
You don't have to agree, honestly, I don't believe it either because these last few weeks I've again hit the point where I've concluded BotW & TotK are incompatible with even Skyward Sword.
These new games are a reboot, a reimagining. Now, I'm feeling pretty done arguing with you, so kindly respect that and move on.
I’m Tired of this version of hyrule too. Been tired for a min, and that’s not bad just kinda miss the linear story, dungeon to dungeon games I grew up with and loved.
I find myself sometimes getting footage and then getting distracted looking for answer that probably don't exist. The locations of shrines we see in memories and evidence of their corresponding light root, and yet there is none. The fact we can explore this world so openly peels back the curtain of the limitation that are there.
I want a more curated adventure, a story that is tighter, even at the expense of limited areas.
To be fair....it is the master sword.
I'm not sure how that somehow excuses the problem here.