"Eu4 has modifiers that modify modifications of modified modifiers, but god help me if this is the most esoteric bonus that I have ever seen in this game." I laughed so hard, take your like sir.
I think you're underestimating supply depots. They allow you to reinforce at the full rate in enemy territory (rather than the usual 50%). For example, if you're siegeing Constantinople in a very large Ottoman empire and your armies are being hammered by incoming Ottoman stacks, a supply depot allows your armies to reinforce at the same rate as the Otto armies in the entire state where a supply depot is created. You can also create a supply state where you can send battered armies to recover. Supply depots are only good against large empires that pack a punch, but they do have real uses.
John W. Yes but since you have to have sieged the enemy areas to deploy supply depots they dont actually help with forts. Lategame monster wars perhaps they do have their uses
David Sjöblom The depot effects the whole state. So a depot on occupied Edirne cuts down attrition for the stack siegeing Constantinople. But again, I'd argue the main benefit of a depot is increased reinforcement rate deep in enemy territory when its impractical to return to your borders, not raising supply limit.
Even then, I would still say that this is pretty situational because late game I tend to have troops that are so much better than my enemies that even at reduced morale and reduced numbers they still defeat the enemy in battles.
Interesting. I just tested what you said, and it turns it it's correct: Armies do reinforce in enemy land with a supply depot at the same rate as friendly territory. I didn't even think to check for that since it wasn't advertised anywhere (I saw no mention of it in the dev diaries, on the wiki, or in any posts mentioning them). So yes, I could see how that could come in handy at some points. Great find!
EU4 in 2014: Morale of armies: +10% EU4 in 2018: Reduced morale damage taken by reserves: +50% EU4 in 2022: Reserves morale damage reduction when on a stated province with a fort and less than 10 devastation that borders a rival against whom you have 25% or above warscore while in golden age: +5%
UA-cam recently reposted my video on How to Crush the Protestant Reformation, so if you didn't get a chance to see it before it went down, you can see it at ua-cam.com/video/TI0aU3PEir0/v-deo.html
What do you think is the most underrated modifier to have in EU4? Discipline, core creation and morale are always emphasized but what modifiers do you think people should pay more attention to when choosing idea groups, taking decisions, etc. I personally think manpower recovery speed is pretty underrated but I'd like to know your thoughts.
Graybat12 Recruting discount. It is usualy pointless, in the grand scheme saves very little, but can allow you to buy two more troops, that win some crucial battle after stack wipe. (I usually avoid taking loans, they feel to much OP)
"It can sometimes feel like it's a giant simulation where nation compete to see who can have the biggest modifiers that modify modifications of modified modifiers." Haha you made my day
One thing I have noticed with drilled units is that for sure the infantry and cavalry soon lose their bonuses after some battles. That being said, as long as your cannons don't take any casualties, their bonuses persist for quite a long time. So as long as you don't fight a battle past the point of your front line breaking, those cannons keep putting out extra damage during the war. So it might be a good strat to just drill your artillery regiments if you're trying to save ducats.
you forgot one thing, the refill manpower when deleting troops acts as TELEPORATION (at a fee) ... for large nations it allows you to delete your armys and rebuild them on the other side of your nation in a month or two, and for really large nations this is faster then marching them the cost tho is a bunch of gold and loss of drill :/ it might be useful in some situations, such as if your fighting a navally superior nation and your troops are stuck on one of your islands XD
The -0.1 morale per battle day was introduced because giant doomstacks refilled with mercenaries could fight for months even in XVI/XVI century, and Paradox did not like that. The idea of bonus to the reserves is great, but... Why so little? Make it so reserves take -75%/85% morale per day damage or something, not these puny rookie numbers.
I think Defensive has been the de facto best early military idea group for a while now, and 15% morale and +1 army tradition are still two of the strongest military ideas in the game even after the early game.
Heeey Darkfire. Not to rush you or anything but... I'm really itching to upvote your videos. But I sort of ran out. So if you could possibly perchance maybe upload a new one, that would be swell. Just sayn'. No pressure.
Why do you think that's better than 50% manpower from quantity, or 2 guaranteed pips from the first 3 picks in offensive? Morale is nice, but medium-large wars tend to be about killing units and not winning individual battles, which makes the morale less interesting, and makes the discipline or additional manpower from offensive/quantity far more attractive to me
thetedphil The +15% morale is basically the only boost you can get for your army if you dont take Religious and Quantity/Quality, and it can help level out the field against someone like France. The army tradition is also really nice too. Personally though, I usually take 3 or 4 military groups (Offensive, Quality, Quantity, Defensive usually) to get all the bonuses. It might also be that Quality itself doesnt give you Discipline until its complete, but Offensive is better with where you get it. You get the morale on the 2nd idea. That's just my opinion, ay least.
This is not true. Twenty army tradition will increase the minimum number of pips of your general by one and maximum by 2. The way the game assigns pips this results in +1.2 to +2 gained on average by going one tier higher (e.g. from 0 to 20 tradition for +1.2 pips or going from 80 to 100 for +2 pips). Anyways even in the best case scenario you get +2 pips which is equal to the bonus provided by Offensive. Furthemore Quality is straight up better than Defensive. You get the same +1 army tradition but you also gain +5% discipline and +10% combat ability for all your troops. Since casualties inflicted also cause moral damage I'd take combat ability/discipline any day over morale. Third, morale is double edged sword. Staying longer fighting the losing fight may result in higher casualties on your side. I am not going to say that morale is bad but there are scenarios where it is so. All other combat bonuses are good at all times.
Thanks. It's also interesting to note that cannons drilling for the second half of the game is very powerful. Or at least it seems so, since they generally don't lose strength even if you pull out of some engagements. Also a full back-row of cannons is not a huge part of the army so it's not super expensive to drill.
An interesting angle on this is it is a massive boost to island nations. UK, Japan, madagascar, and Indonesian nations can drill without fear of stackwipe as long as they maintain a powerful navy(UK and Japan have it easier here since they have much higher dev provinces) I think I will do a new Japan playthrough to get to 100 professionalism super fast. I also feel like the slacken recruit button makes wars of attrition very costly for both sides much more costly. If you are fighting late game France as Prussia in mp, they could drain their country dry simply throwing manpower at you.
Good point. All that extra manpower is going to potentially encourage players to get bogged down in a war they don't need to be fighting and they'll get tunnel vision after they click that button because they want it to make a difference so the war will last even longer and cost even more.
Reman, I would LOVE LOVE LOVE if you would do a video analysis on army composition. I never know what the optimal army comp is and I feel like all the stuff I've seen online is contradictory and confusing, e.g., whether and when cavalry is useful, how much artillery to own depending on artillery type, etc.
that_cad Cavalry is good early game if you can afford it, especially if they get a bonus from National Ideas etc. The mainstay of your army should be infantry, they are cheap and cheerful. Artillery grant damage reduction to the unit in front of them, take no damage themselves (assuming they are in the back row) and deal 50% of their damage pips as well. They are good for mid-late game. It all depends on your National Ideas and Idea Groups, but for a generic nation, this works: Early game - 4 cavalry, as many infantry you can support (up to combat width) Mid-game - 6 cavalry, infantry up to combat width +2 (so that 8 inf are in reserve due to the 6 cav), and a few cannons (as many as you can afford) for sieging and for reduced fire phase casualties. End-game: Flanking range worth of cav (either 6 or 8 at this stage; can't remember), enough infantry to fill the rest of the front line (with 8-10 in back line) and try hard to fill out the entirety of the back line with artillery if you can, as they hit really hard in the late game.
By late game, it's artillery equal to your combat width, plus cavalry depending on flanking range, with slightly more infantry than artillery. At 32 combat width, for example, a "properly" stacked army would have something like 38 infantry, 6-8 cavalry, and 32 artillery. Just as an example. Money often prohibits this, of course, and tech largely determines what an army should look like.
I used the supply depot to host my main army near a wall of forts near my borders, while the 10k stack do their siegeing. The supply depot can decrease the attrition rate, which is crucial for saving manpower in early-midgame.
Placing a supply depot increases reinforcement speed for, the entire state, to the same as friendly territory. This is helpful if you're deep in enemy territory and trying to siege down surrounding areas.
Your comment on the Roleplay is pretty much the main reason for Drilling to be a great addition. I know it's wrong as Prussia and I'd be more effective if I use mercs, but I MUST DRILL THE ARMY
Hey Reaman, with these new military factors, how would you compose your troops differently and in general how do and did you compose your troops through out the game??
One way you can use Drilling of your armies is to have a specific army that is for Sieging and sitting on enemy forts to wait for them to fall. and have an another army act as your "elite troops" and waiting on the sidelines for the enemy to attack you, this way you can waste as little drill as possible. and technically it gives you an edge over your foe considering your elite stack would be dealing much more damage than the enemy's attacking stack.
Seems like professionalism needs more reworking. A large nation like Ottomans or the British Empire did have a professional army just like Prussians did. Only difference is Prussians's army was a majority of professional army while Empire-sized armies with their vast size and number of troops housed elite armies and regiments (Like Janissaries), while having a lot of militias and mercs for other uses. In no shape or form does Prussian Army should say...defeat Ottomans in a fair fight just simply because their Professionalism is higher due to Prussia has less force limit and no mercs. Another thing is drill's increase of professionalism based on force limit seems awfully ridiculous, just because a nation can man 50% of their population into basic training doesn't mean they really have to to have a professional army. Of course the counter argument is to prevent the opposite if it's based on overall number of troops, as you can have 1/1 troops in your nation and you will get professionalism up quickly by drilling that one guy. In this way professionalism should be a mechanic that gets diluted and refined as newer regiments fill in, but traditions and discipline really is what sets the bar for an army's professionalism in the real world. Professionalism should be divided into 2 categories, where first one affects regiments and their specific perks (almost like Rome 2's armies that are both attached to generals and have military traditions for its own army), so you could have a raider team that is a bunch of cav regiments that are good at raiding, and a battering ram-like regiment to seek out enemies, and a siege team that specifically are designed to further be good at...well sieges. Of course one the most ridiculous mechanics in Rtw2 was the fact that there was a limited number of regiments to be used that vastly limited game play and expansion. One solution would be possibly assigning all professionalism and traits to GENERALS and the Regiment they belong in, and making Generals physical units instead of attachments to armies. This will both prevent Generals being used in 2 different theatres by alternating armies, as well as making them almost paramount to a battle, since all the bonuses would be stacked on the general, a mob of units without the leadership can still fight and defend their city, but will be disorganized and thus be at an advantage. Also when Generals die, the regiment they created will continue and seek a new General that will carry on its traditions, but gains its own traits and pips, which can also be trained up as well. Other thing is overall professionalism should just create higher ranking systems for potential regiments within a nation, Ottoman's Janissary are not less Professional just because they decided to use their overflow of cash to buy some cannon fodder mercs just so they dont lose out on Janissaries in a artillery barrage.
The only use for the reinforce fort i have found is more defensive where you could be drilling with forts unmaintained and then you get dow on, so you can reinforce get moral up and then fight on friendly ground.
If i could have given Paradox advice for this feature it would be essentially to make army training a system to allow for actual reserve forces and front line units, Front line units would have full funding and training while reserve units would have negligible upkeep and low training and would take some money and manpower to bring these reserve units up to full readiness. This would allow for some strategic reserves for large empires and for smaller countries to have a quick reaction force always funded but not have to have the entire army fully funded.
Yeah a similar button to mothball fleet could be make reserves, and they half or quater mp and half/quater moral but cheaper. then when you turn them toff reserve u gotta spend some months doing some "basic tranning".
I do think that some kind of reserve unit feature is needed, it seems weird to have to mobilize my entire standing army just to crush an overseas rebel stack
are you sure that nations didn't keep troops on hand who weren't fully mobilized? Even so, there's an army maintenance slider already in the game, it seems arbitrary not to be able to choose parts of my army for this to not apply to - obviously the real reason is game balance, but it's nothing that a few debuffs to the feature couldn't solve
I'm not sure if you know this Reman, but garrisons affect sieges beyond just assaults. If you have less than half of a garrison, your fort falls quicker because the fort malus for sieges is reduced. So if you've been sitting on a fort for months, finally get it and see the enemy coming to take it back, you might not want them to have an easier time than you. Fighting the ottomans is a good example of why you don't want them to have an easy time with forts.
Sam I haven't really used that mechanic in all my time playing, and no one else, even the likes of DDRJake and Florryworry, seems to use it either. Wasn't there a manpower exploit with that mechanic which let you trade mil points from pushing the sortie button and then combining your main army with the sortie? It seems like a fairly useful mechanic on paper, but I can't really remember why the entire community basically rejects it.
Ive heard Florryworry say its his favorite button, its how I learned to use it. If you do it right you get to keep the troops thus letting you use the magic fort manpower. Ive seen Florryworry do this while on 0 manpower, totally worth it for only 10 mill.
1) don't use professionalism armies for sieging (this is where mercs are good... no manpower loss due to sieges either) 2) You can keep an army or two back drilling even during wars just to keep them in tip top fighting shape. I feel there are two scenarios: a) Either you are taking a "bad fight" (early game), in this case you should drill before you DoW anyways because you need every edge you can get. b) You are taking an easy fight because you've already snowballed. In this case you can afford to keep some of your army back drilling and keep "rotating" your armies. Kind of like how the Romans fought, send in fresh troops and pull back your exhausted ones continually. The argument here would be "if you can afford to keep armies back you might as well just declare more wars", but this can be risky.
+Void Usually it's kind of pointless, because what limits your progress against medium-size nations when you are massive-sized is waiting for forts to fall (one of the reasons siege ability is such a good perk). Usually PU's/Vassals/etc. can handle most of the fighting while you just send in the troops necessary to win the big ones. This way you never run out of manpower.
drilling costs way too much money to give you an edge. If you are lazy and dont want to reduce your maintenance every time it is kinda worth but otherwise it costs half your army upkeep,which is never worth it.
+SiiNuxX Untrue. In the early game the edge of a drilled army will let you eke out a victory at a much lower cost, which is important as you've yet to establish dominance, as well as obviously start building professionalism. Mid game or later you are drowning in cash if you've been building properly (I usually end up just building all the canals for the lulz, even though it's completely unnecessary).
At 10 untis you got an upkeep of almst 3 ducats. You can safe 1.5 ducats per month. To fully drill your units it takes 120 months. so you are basically losing 180 ducats. If you would fight someone that drilled for the same time with the same amount of troops you just build 6 mercs and you beat him up. It's just useless to drill if you are small and dont have endless money.
2nd of professionalism is very useful when you have high war exhaustion, if you noticed that some forts already being siege, which aren't totally, loose MP and victory of war in EU IV is based on that last moment when are both sided exhausted and that last battle is decisive. So if you think that can be quite useful to fill up your garrison it can provide you better chances to reconstruct your army if you lost last battle. Mixed with attrition ideas could turn war upside down.
The thing about supply depots is it lets speedy reinforcement out of your territory. Any province you have the supply depots benefit lets armies reinforce as if it was home territory, letting them bounce back from bloody battles deep on enemy clay just as fast as the enemy army. It's situational, but it helps a LOT in giant wars
Very good guide! But i think Quantity is still viable but i would recommend to stop the progress before the unlock of the force limit mod.. So quantity is nerfed and defence is a good alternative but quantity is still a good pick for early game (my opinion)
tjaenig Quantity is great for boosting a small nation in the early game, and is still very useful in the mid-game when paired with economic ideas (the extra cash helps you to afford more men).
Many players say that. In my opinion its good for all nations (also for big nations like ottomans or france), ok in late game you have a ton of manpower but in multyplayer you cant have to much manpower. As long as you have manpower you can fight back without crippling your nation. The 50 % more manpower and 20 % recovery ones are the best military ideas thats why Quantity is the best military idea group in most cases. (the perks you get from any other one cant match the numerous advantage from quantity) But yes quantity + economic works great (- 20 % upkeep comined) with defence you can stack up to 30 %, with revolution you get - 80 % :D
While, by now, professionalism is a straight forward case for most players, and people know what to expect and whether to try to get to 100% or not, for me it does a few things: -it plays into my playstyle, giving me additional combat ability and siege ability (im full quality base every game) -the abilities gained through levelling professionalism are really good, especially the cheap generals and reduced morale damage to back ranks -the bonuses from professionalism are global, and dont have to be grinded for each stack individually -mercs are highly unreliable in their current form; being unable to compose a proper stack out of them means youre taking whatever is available; running around with a 50k stack of infantry is not gonna win you a single battle against a stack with some 20k cannons in the back row; < this is particularily annoying when playing states with low manpower, who would love to use mercs en masse, but cant make them work because of their inflexible nature So, what happens when somebody saying "professionalism isnt worth it" gets into a fight with someone having 100% professionalism? They get cock slapped over the face by someone who actually has a fully drilled army. Maybe in MP professionalism isnt worth it, and i imagine it isnt, given the cutthroat style of gameplay there, where everyone goes quantity, but in single player, being able to beat larger stacks with smaller ones? Professionalism all the way.
But they only do 50% from backrow right? You're only doing 55% damage with cannoncs anyway, and cannons doesn't git gud before 16th tech* (correct me If I wrote the wrong tech), isn't it a waste before then since cannons ARE for sieges before the "special" tech.
As far as I know they become better than Infantry at Tech 14. At that point they do double the fire damage as infantry thanks to the +1 Fire Damage of Tech 14, so they basically do the same amount of damage from their Backrow as Infantry does from the frontrow. So before that point it's no use having cannons unless you're sieging.
Optimal depends on a lot. Your religion/culture, national ideas, tech group, idea groups, economy, etc. can all drastically affect what an "optimal" army looks like. Generally, in the early game, you want a ratio of cavalry to infantry equal to your specific nation's allowed cavalry ratio (50% without modifiers), cannons equal to infantry + cavalry, and neither cannons nor infantry + cavalry being over your nation's combat width unless you're fighting someone with more width than you. Late game, cavalry becomes less important and you want just a few units per army to deploy on your flanks, so replace most of it with infantry for the better fire pips and cheaper maintenence. And prioritize unit types with offensive pips if you're outnumbering the enemy, defensive otherwise. These are optimal in performance, but that's with price being no object. Cavalry and cannons are freaking expensive, so most nations can't afford to make either of these "model armies" without also building massively under the land forcelimit.
Hi reman, you've helped me so much since discovering you. I found one of your threads in the Paradox forums about trade good values, and I especially liked the noteworthy regions you talked about afterward. Someone necroed the thread due to the trade good changes in Cradle of Civilization, and I was wondering if you would be making a video about it :) it would make a lot of people very happy I'm sure, since playing the economic game is much less stale than just blobbing. Thanks!
One annoying thing about drilling is that it drains morale similar to dropping army maintenance down to 0. So if there is a surprise war or a random opportunity to declare war on someone occurs, then you have to wait a couple of months for your morale to tick back up to full.
Drilling armies also keep the same unrest reduction bonus, so during peace time, when you have a stack on a province that'd otherwise spawn rebels, you can just take a couple months of free drilling, since the pay for the army is the same. Similarly if you're a very large nation and are planning to fight a war on the opposite side of your nation as you are right now and you don't need to send all of your armies to the current one, you can simply keep the other ones drilling.
Sinan Egilmez drilling armies are put at full maintenance, regardless of what your army maintenance bar is at. It is like condotierri, they will be full maintenance even if the rest of your units aren't.
Honestly, I really don't like professionalism. I'd prefer if they just made a two way street instead (kind of like piety for muslims), where one grants good mercs and one grants professonal troops.
I guess Mercs are even stronger now. As you said ( and as every experienced player most likly knows) money is normally not an issue in the late game. Considering that 100 mercs equals 15% AP combined with the cheaper generals you should have no problems sitting at 90-100 AP. Especially combined with Innovative, Economy and Quality you get pure deathstacks there. Aside from drilling to gain AP i guess its usefull in the HRE since you spend a lot of time doing nothing anyways thou there is the danger of losing your army if getting declared on. I think that Quantity is still better for larger nations at the start since the really good ideas in there are the first four so you just wait to get the last one and the finisher. But i guess thats my personal preference. Nice video as always mate :)
They immediately nerfed professionalsm by moving general cost reduction to 100% threshold so that now if you use slacken recruiting standarts, you have to recruit generals for their full cost... Oh well, it was probably really op the way it was...
Here is what I do with drilling 1)I am drilling when I start winning so new trained men will be ready to burst drain enemy man power next war 2)I ALLWAYS siege with men that has not drilled or reinforced stack 3)Allways drill artilarity because they die last
So, I've been thinking about how drilling could help, and I've come to the conclusion it can be really OP if you stack the right modifers. I'm thinking a shia manchu prussian monarchy, here's the evil plan. Manchu culture for banners (10% discipline) Shia for the -10% shock damage taken school. Ibadi also works. Prussian Monarchy for 10% discipline Mandatory custom national ideas +10% disciple. You want max discipline -20% shock/fire casualties. You want to minimize your casualties. Quality ideas, offensive ideas, & economic ideas. With the policy, you can get another 15% discipline. Nice bonuses: +60% cav/inf ratio. All calvary armies, all the time. +1 mil on rulers. Combined with prussian monarchy, you get a minimum of 4 military for every ruler. Lower corruption, as your banner usage is limited by corruption. At it's most basic, you're looking at armies with 45% bonus discipline, -30% shock damage taken, & -20% fire damage taken. Then you fully drill it for another -10% damage taken & bonus damage dealt.
Infantry combat ability increases damage done. Discipline also increases damage done, but also reduces damage taken. 45% discipline would reduce casualties taken by about 31% and increase casualties inflicted by 45% at the same time. A defensive focus would also allow drilling to last longer, by virtue of taking less casualties, as well as be easier on your manpower pool. I'm not 100% sure on how the order of operations for casualties. But if discipline & damage taken from fire/shock are multiplicative you're looking at 45% less damage taken in fire & 51% less damage taken in shock before factoring drilling. Your first battle, pre-casualties, would have 51% less fire damage & 59% less shock damage. Adding in a commandant would increase these results to 47% fire/53% shock reduction pre-drilling & 53% fire/60% shock reduction post-drilling. Since I derped and forgot to include absolutism in the initial calculations, that improves it to 49% fire/ 55% shock pre-drilling & 55% fire/ 62% shock post-drilling. And since this reduces casualties taken, a 62% reduction would mean you could survive 2.6 times as many shock phases for example. Of course, my math may be completely wrong as I'm not sure on how military tactics, which disicpline multiplies, affects casualties on the mathematical level. But with a multiplicative modifer being very conservative, there is potential for massively OP armies with the right ideas, government, & other modifiers. And considering I forgot to account for absolutism, there's a lot that could potentially improve this further. For example, going for a religion like norse or hindu for 5% discipline over 10% shock reduction may be superior depending on how tactics calculations work.
What's your oppinion of this change in Patch 1.24: - Unit movement speed reduced from 1 to 0.7. - Drilled armies now have an increased movement speed. 20% faster at 100%. Mercenaries will however slow them down. @Reman's Paradox ?
I played a game in the middle east and early game when Supply limit is horrendous its helpful, also because you resupply in enemy territory as if you were in owned territory so long as a supply depot is in the area.
So, some of the stuff in this video might not be the same as of the patch coming out later this month, from the latest dev diary: " Additionally, Army Drill will increase an army's movement speed by up to 20% at full drill, so a well prepared army will have a much easier time moving into position compared to green units. (...) the Supply Depot, which boosts reinforcement rate and supply limit, will last for 5 years instead of 2. The Reserves Morale Impact is now more effective due to increased daily morale damage and has switched places with the reduced General Costs" In fact some of this sounds like they looked at this video and moved stuff according to it
They should definitely buff this as it played a huge role in how the Royal Navy was able to completely overpower other navies including the French and Spanish combined. Great Britain didn't have all of the best tech and they didn't have the numbers. What they had was good sailors and good leaders. The sailors for example could load and shot their cannon twice as fast as the competition and they could keep this up under extreme stress which was a killer advantage. Master & Commander covers this well.
Today's dev diray mentioned some changes to professionalism and drilling in the upcoming patch. Are you going to make a video about how this changes your conclusion about professionalism in this video?
Hey, what if your Army Professionalism determined what level of drill unit reinforcements would be at? For example, if you had an infantry at exactly 500 men and 100 drill, 0 professionalism would give you 1000 men at 50 drill, 50 professionalism would give 1000 men with 75 drill, and 100 professionalism would give 1000 men with 100 drill. Does anyone think that would make drilling troops for those bonuses worthwhile?
2 things: 1. How can you make custom map with 2 countries and rest is uninhabited? Do you have to click on every province or is there some 'clear' option I don't know about? 2. Can you put more graphic data while you're talking (like you did with Trade analisys e.g. )? Sometimes I try to visualize what are you saying but for non-native English speaker it takes me a bit time. Thx in advance.
Agree with nr 2. On nr 1, if you have a certain DLC that allows cursom nations you can set the world settings to either: "Historical, Randomized, Empty", where "Randomized" can have either historical countries names and flags, or having that randomized too.
I think Professionalism is kind of a way to improve players. The AI still goe hard on mercs and through their traits nearly always have their events eat up their army professionalism. So if you get your AP in the first 100 years of a campaign which is absolutly possible You can even take quantity idead afterwards if you need them that hard. Concerning drilling I only think it's worthwhile if you play ottomans on Janissaris at 100% AP. At that point you get ~2,5 Drilling per Month which does make fights against armies easier as one might think while sieging their with troups which don't have any Drill.
paradox is working on an update for this care to do an updated take on that? also could you do a video on when its worth developing a province? i usually guess that up to 50 monarch power cost is ok
(Sorry a bit long, the main question is at the end). Would you say that drilling would be more useful for a nation playing tall (or at least temporarily playing tall)? I had been away from the game for a few months and came back recently with Rule Britannia, and also bought the dlc's I had been waiting on a sale for. I did a England (of course, its Rule Britannia) and in addition to the normal make France you lap dog bit, got some lucky PU's (Naples, Sweden), and monopolized the new world colony scene until the mid 1700's when Otto finally got a bit onto the North American pacific coast. So with 13 vassals+colonies, I really had little need for personal military outside of my navy. Because of this, I took only quality ideas (at group 5) for mil. As a result, I was dumping into manpower development to shed mil points. I got lucky with a divine ruler that actually lived til 70's and for some reason just had high mil rulers regardless. I was constantly running up to cap. Point is, the whole merc strategy for island nations thing became a non-issue. Granted, a lot went my way this game, but winning the PU on France is really enough to trivialize manpower. If one were to simply use small units to attach and command vassal/ally regiments, would that then make drilling (absent the professionalism) a useful investment?
Hi ! I'd love to know how you do your tests? How to have 2 armies identical in all points except one stat and how to make them always have 5 on the dice, etc...
This seems to be an unintentional buff for prussia. Now there's not only the space marines but it also gets a hefty boost to it's ability to replenish it's manpower through the slacken recruitment standards button (because of the +3 to monarch mil points of prussian monarchy). Endless hordes of prussian space marines amirite?
I was thinking of another strat could be if you have a larger army than the person you are fighting you have two different main armies. 1 that is fighting and the other that drills. And swap them out when they drilling army gets to a desirable level. You also forgot to mention that drilling has a chance to improve your generals
Aye, I get the feeling they're going to buff drilling at least - if not some of the 'bonus' stages of professionalism. I'm assuming they were just cautious not to make it utterly overpowered since it's already meta-shifting as it is.
Hey Reman - Big fan of your videos. I have a question, and I figured you might be the best to ask, if nothing else take as a compliment and a suggestion for a future video. And sorry it doesn't have anything to with this great video. I am playing a Ryukyu game everything is going fantastic. 7000 development and the year is 1678. Your guide on absolutism and Ryukyu strategy helped alot. However I dedcided to trying my luck on grabbing the Mandate from Ming - so I went Hinda -> flipped to Buddhist, and now i would love to go Coptic now. But I am having trouble spawning zealots. I only get nationalist, so I am stuck as a Buddhist for now. If you could bring some religion in a future video and flipping strategies it would be a great topic.
The biggest grumble I have with drill is the fact that it tanks the stacks' morale. Like, how does basic exercises demoralise the troops as much as not paying them?
I think it makes sense to have very low or at least lower morale. Drilling is extremely tiring and abusing of the soldiers. Non-stop exercises, wakes in the middle of the night just to go out marching for 30Km with 40Kg of backpack. A lot of pain from wounds and exercises beyond their current limit. A ton of mental pressure all day long. And so on. Of course they'll need some time to recover. Though I guess that recovery time should be like 1 entire month.
To be fair, while the recovery time feels long at the same time battles themselves can potentially go for a long time so in terms of game balance I think it's a reasonable length of time to recover troop morale.
Well a new patch will come and they changed the position of half general cost with the last one also movements are from 1.0->0.7, fully drilled armies have %20 movement speed increase, is it still worth drilling ?
Hi Reman's Paradox, I have a question. After changes to the game you mention in your second Army Academy, is Cradle of Civ still worth buying? This is the last proper DLC I did not buy yet, and rigth now there is a discount on one of the polish websites. Thank you in advance.
I use Refill garrison ll the time Enemy takes one of your forts they leave you run in blow the walls down then kill the small amount of men inside then quickly refill the entire garrison burn the province then retreat forcing them to lose thousands of men retaking the fort best done when you have the manpower to burn though
See, I just played a game as Switzerland. I felt drilling was quite handy. Me and almost all of my neighbors early game had max maintenance and or were drilling. I almost always ended wars with most of my troops at least at 10 % drill or more. Most of us had max main. anyway since we are all very skeptical of our neighbors and only one bad battle will likely mean death at that stage. Fast forward 150 years and I'm beating France 1v1 in war. But yeah at the end of that war all of my drill was practically sapped. And I've always had some of the most gold in the game, and my maintenance has been at 100% for like 90% of the game so far. IDK maybe its very good early and when you are small, but less valuable as you grow and time moves on. Plus when you fight mercs against drilled armies theoretically you should crush the mercs.
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"Eu4 has modifiers that modify modifications of modified modifiers, but god help me if this is the most esoteric bonus that I have ever seen in this game." I laughed so hard, take your like sir.
gilgamesh2399 Wanna someone play with me Eu4 or HoI4? Steam name Woiwode Tepes
gilgamesh2399 io
They nerfed the 50% cheaper generals within a day after watching this video... but 50% reduced morale that literally does nothing? Still the 80% bonus
I think you're underestimating supply depots. They allow you to reinforce at the full rate in enemy territory (rather than the usual 50%). For example, if you're siegeing Constantinople in a very large Ottoman empire and your armies are being hammered by incoming Ottoman stacks, a supply depot allows your armies to reinforce at the same rate as the Otto armies in the entire state where a supply depot is created. You can also create a supply state where you can send battered armies to recover. Supply depots are only good against large empires that pack a punch, but they do have real uses.
John W. Yes but since you have to have sieged the enemy areas to deploy supply depots they dont actually help with forts. Lategame monster wars perhaps they do have their uses
David Sjöblom The depot effects the whole state. So a depot on occupied Edirne cuts down attrition for the stack siegeing Constantinople. But again, I'd argue the main benefit of a depot is increased reinforcement rate deep in enemy territory when its impractical to return to your borders, not raising supply limit.
Even then, I would still say that this is pretty situational because late game I tend to have troops that are so much better than my enemies that even at reduced morale and reduced numbers they still defeat the enemy in battles.
Interesting. I just tested what you said, and it turns it it's correct: Armies do reinforce in enemy land with a supply depot at the same rate as friendly territory. I didn't even think to check for that since it wasn't advertised anywhere (I saw no mention of it in the dev diaries, on the wiki, or in any posts mentioning them). So yes, I could see how that could come in handy at some points.
Great find!
A very usefull mp ability where quality ans Singular sieges are pivitol.
EU4 in 2014: Morale of armies: +10%
EU4 in 2018: Reduced morale damage taken by reserves: +50%
EU4 in 2022: Reserves morale damage reduction when on a stated province with a fort and less than 10 devastation that borders a rival against whom you have 25% or above warscore while in golden age: +5%
What?
I can't even...
WHAT?!
@@YourLocalMairaaboo same
@Ahmet Kadir Yılmaz the end is nigh
UA-cam recently reposted my video on How to Crush the Protestant Reformation, so if you didn't get a chance to see it before it went down, you can see it at ua-cam.com/video/TI0aU3PEir0/v-deo.html
Weird that it's finnaly online again, even though they rejected that before, but great that it's online again.
why was that in the first place, did someone at google convert to the filthy Lutheran heresy
Why did it go down to begin with?
What do you think is the most underrated modifier to have in EU4? Discipline, core creation and morale are always emphasized but what modifiers do you think people should pay more attention to when choosing idea groups, taking decisions, etc. I personally think manpower recovery speed is pretty underrated but I'd like to know your thoughts.
Graybat12 Recruting discount. It is usualy pointless, in the grand scheme saves very little, but can allow you to buy two more troops, that win some crucial battle after stack wipe. (I usually avoid taking loans, they feel to much OP)
"It can sometimes feel like it's a giant simulation where nation compete to see who can have the biggest modifiers that modify modifications of modified modifiers." Haha you made my day
Hero of Olympus Wanna someone play with me Eu4 or HoI4? Steam name Woiwode Tepes
One thing I have noticed with drilled units is that for sure the infantry and cavalry soon lose their bonuses after some battles. That being said, as long as your cannons don't take any casualties, their bonuses persist for quite a long time. So as long as you don't fight a battle past the point of your front line breaking, those cannons keep putting out extra damage during the war.
So it might be a good strat to just drill your artillery regiments if you're trying to save ducats.
very good idea
that's good but you got to convince the team for them to try and make it so while trying to keep the balance in.
Deleting ships will always return sailors to the sailor pool. Always has, always will, with or without this DLC.
you forgot one thing, the refill manpower when deleting troops acts as TELEPORATION (at a fee) ... for large nations it allows you to delete your armys and rebuild them on the other side of your nation in a month or two, and for really large nations this is faster then marching them
the cost tho is a bunch of gold and loss of drill :/ it might be useful in some situations, such as if your fighting a navally superior nation and your troops are stuck on one of your islands XD
Алина Старковa (Alina Starkova) 2nd Account Wanna someone play with me Eu4 or HoI4? Steam name Woiwode Tepes
The -0.1 morale per battle day was introduced because giant doomstacks refilled with mercenaries could fight for months even in XVI/XVI century, and Paradox did not like that.
The idea of bonus to the reserves is great, but... Why so little? Make it so reserves take -75%/85% morale per day damage or something, not these puny rookie numbers.
I think Defensive has been the de facto best early military idea group for a while now, and 15% morale and +1 army tradition are still two of the strongest military ideas in the game even after the early game.
darkfireslide oh hey. Where've you been?
Heeey Darkfire. Not to rush you or anything but... I'm really itching to upvote your videos. But I sort of ran out. So if you could possibly perchance maybe upload a new one, that would be swell. Just sayn'. No pressure.
Why do you think that's better than 50% manpower from quantity, or 2 guaranteed pips from the first 3 picks in offensive? Morale is nice, but medium-large wars tend to be about killing units and not winning individual battles, which makes the morale less interesting, and makes the discipline or additional manpower from offensive/quantity far more attractive to me
thetedphil The +15% morale is basically the only boost you can get for your army if you dont take Religious and Quantity/Quality, and it can help level out the field against someone like France. The army tradition is also really nice too. Personally though, I usually take 3 or 4 military groups (Offensive, Quality, Quantity, Defensive usually) to get all the bonuses. It might also be that Quality itself doesnt give you Discipline until its complete, but Offensive is better with where you get it. You get the morale on the 2nd idea. That's just my opinion, ay least.
This is not true. Twenty army tradition will increase the minimum number of pips of your general by one and maximum by 2. The way the game assigns pips this results in +1.2 to +2 gained on average by going one tier higher (e.g. from 0 to 20 tradition for +1.2 pips or going from 80 to 100 for +2 pips). Anyways even in the best case scenario you get +2 pips which is equal to the bonus provided by Offensive.
Furthemore Quality is straight up better than Defensive. You get the same +1 army tradition but you also gain +5% discipline and +10% combat ability for all your troops. Since casualties inflicted also cause moral damage I'd take combat ability/discipline any day over morale.
Third, morale is double edged sword. Staying longer fighting the losing fight may result in higher casualties on your side. I am not going to say that morale is bad but there are scenarios where it is so. All other combat bonuses are good at all times.
Thanks. It's also interesting to note that cannons drilling for the second half of the game is very powerful. Or at least it seems so, since they generally don't lose strength even if you pull out of some engagements. Also a full back-row of cannons is not a huge part of the army so it's not super expensive to drill.
An interesting angle on this is it is a massive boost to island nations. UK, Japan, madagascar, and Indonesian nations can drill without fear of stackwipe as long as they maintain a powerful navy(UK and Japan have it easier here since they have much higher dev provinces) I think I will do a new Japan playthrough to get to 100 professionalism super fast. I also feel like the slacken recruit button makes wars of attrition very costly for both sides much more costly. If you are fighting late game France as Prussia in mp, they could drain their country dry simply throwing manpower at you.
Good point. All that extra manpower is going to potentially encourage players to get bogged down in a war they don't need to be fighting and they'll get tunnel vision after they click that button because they want it to make a difference so the war will last even longer and cost even more.
RIP to useful slacken recruitment standards. You'll always give us manpower in our hearts.
Reman, I would LOVE LOVE LOVE if you would do a video analysis on army composition. I never know what the optimal army comp is and I feel like all the stuff I've seen online is contradictory and confusing, e.g., whether and when cavalry is useful, how much artillery to own depending on artillery type, etc.
that_cad Cavalry is good early game if you can afford it, especially if they get a bonus from National Ideas etc. The mainstay of your army should be infantry, they are cheap and cheerful. Artillery grant damage reduction to the unit in front of them, take no damage themselves (assuming they are in the back row) and deal 50% of their damage pips as well. They are good for mid-late game.
It all depends on your National Ideas and Idea Groups, but for a generic nation, this works:
Early game - 4 cavalry, as many infantry you can support (up to combat width)
Mid-game - 6 cavalry, infantry up to combat width +2 (so that 8 inf are in reserve due to the 6 cav), and a few cannons (as many as you can afford) for sieging and for reduced fire phase casualties.
End-game: Flanking range worth of cav (either 6 or 8 at this stage; can't remember), enough infantry to fill the rest of the front line (with 8-10 in back line) and try hard to fill out the entirety of the back line with artillery if you can, as they hit really hard in the late game.
By late game, it's artillery equal to your combat width, plus cavalry depending on flanking range, with slightly more infantry than artillery. At 32 combat width, for example, a "properly" stacked army would have something like 38 infantry, 6-8 cavalry, and 32 artillery. Just as an example. Money often prohibits this, of course, and tech largely determines what an army should look like.
that_cad watch "darkfireslide" video on army compositions, he's a cool youtuber and that video should really help you
darkfireslide hahahaha you're here xD
that_cad Wanna someone play with me Eu4 or HoI4? Steam name Woiwode Tepes
I used the supply depot to host my main army near a wall of forts near my borders, while the 10k stack do their siegeing. The supply depot can decrease the attrition rate, which is crucial for saving manpower in early-midgame.
2 vids in a week? We’re blessed.
Placing a supply depot increases reinforcement speed for, the entire state, to the same as friendly territory. This is helpful if you're deep in enemy territory and trying to siege down surrounding areas.
Your comment on the Roleplay is pretty much the main reason for Drilling to be a great addition.
I know it's wrong as Prussia and I'd be more effective if I use mercs, but I MUST DRILL THE ARMY
Hey Reaman, with these new military factors, how would you compose your troops differently and in general how do and did you compose your troops through out the game??
Love you (re)man
One way you can use Drilling of your armies is to have a specific army that is for Sieging and sitting on enemy forts to wait for them to fall. and have an another army act as your "elite troops" and waiting on the sidelines for the enemy to attack you, this way you can waste as little drill as possible. and technically it gives you an edge over your foe considering your elite stack would be dealing much more damage than the enemy's attacking stack.
One of the benefits of the refill garrison is that you could have mothballed forts and jump them to full garrison when you start a war.
Good video Reman! Lots of information and entertaining
Very useful information. Thank you very much, Reman!
Seems like professionalism needs more reworking. A large nation like Ottomans or the British Empire did have a professional army just like Prussians did. Only difference is Prussians's army was a majority of professional army while Empire-sized armies with their vast size and number of troops housed elite armies and regiments (Like Janissaries), while having a lot of militias and mercs for other uses. In no shape or form does Prussian Army should say...defeat Ottomans in a fair fight just simply because their Professionalism is higher due to Prussia has less force limit and no mercs.
Another thing is drill's increase of professionalism based on force limit seems awfully ridiculous, just because a nation can man 50% of their population into basic training doesn't mean they really have to to have a professional army. Of course the counter argument is to prevent the opposite if it's based on overall number of troops, as you can have 1/1 troops in your nation and you will get professionalism up quickly by drilling that one guy. In this way professionalism should be a mechanic that gets diluted and refined as newer regiments fill in, but traditions and discipline really is what sets the bar for an army's professionalism in the real world.
Professionalism should be divided into 2 categories, where first one affects regiments and their specific perks (almost like Rome 2's armies that are both attached to generals and have military traditions for its own army), so you could have a raider team that is a bunch of cav regiments that are good at raiding, and a battering ram-like regiment to seek out enemies, and a siege team that specifically are designed to further be good at...well sieges. Of course one the most ridiculous mechanics in Rtw2 was the fact that there was a limited number of regiments to be used that vastly
limited game play and expansion. One solution would be possibly assigning all professionalism and traits to GENERALS and the Regiment they belong in, and making Generals physical units instead of attachments to armies. This will both prevent Generals being used in 2 different theatres by alternating armies, as well as making them almost paramount to a battle, since all the bonuses would be stacked on the general, a mob of units without the leadership can still fight and defend their city, but will be disorganized and thus be at an advantage. Also when Generals die, the regiment they created will continue and seek a new General that will carry on its traditions, but gains its own traits and pips, which can also be trained up as well.
Other thing is overall professionalism should just create higher ranking systems for potential regiments within a nation, Ottoman's Janissary are not less Professional just because they decided to use their overflow of cash to buy some cannon fodder mercs just so they dont lose out on Janissaries in a artillery barrage.
so glad your fully back now
As Always. Great Vid, Direct, Concise, and very informative. Keep it up Reman! Always a pleasure!
The only use for the reinforce fort i have found is more defensive where you could be drilling with forts unmaintained and then you get dow on, so you can reinforce get moral up and then fight on friendly ground.
If i could have given Paradox advice for this feature it would be essentially to make army training a system to allow for actual reserve forces and front line units, Front line units would have full funding and training while reserve units would have negligible upkeep and low training and would take some money and manpower to bring these reserve units up to full readiness. This would allow for some strategic reserves for large empires and for smaller countries to have a quick reaction force always funded but not have to have the entire army fully funded.
Yeah a similar button to mothball fleet could be make reserves, and they half or quater mp and half/quater moral but cheaper. then when you turn them toff reserve u gotta spend some months doing some "basic tranning".
I do think that some kind of reserve unit feature is needed, it seems weird to have to mobilize my entire standing army just to crush an overseas rebel stack
It is bad idea because it is historical inaccuracy. There was na such thing like reserve in this time period.
are you sure that nations didn't keep troops on hand who weren't fully mobilized? Even so, there's an army maintenance slider already in the game, it seems arbitrary not to be able to choose parts of my army for this to not apply to - obviously the real reason is game balance, but it's nothing that a few debuffs to the feature couldn't solve
I'm not sure if you know this Reman, but garrisons affect sieges beyond just assaults. If you have less than half of a garrison, your fort falls quicker because the fort malus for sieges is reduced. So if you've been sitting on a fort for months, finally get it and see the enemy coming to take it back, you might not want them to have an easier time than you. Fighting the ottomans is a good example of why you don't want them to have an easy time with forts.
joujou264 I assume that is the same malice that results in instant occupations at -57% progress when there is no garrison?
Yes.
You can aslo sotrie form the seige for some free units if the battle is close, then refill and run away
Sam I haven't really used that mechanic in all my time playing, and no one else, even the likes of DDRJake and Florryworry, seems to use it either. Wasn't there a manpower exploit with that mechanic which let you trade mil points from pushing the sortie button and then combining your main army with the sortie? It seems like a fairly useful mechanic on paper, but I can't really remember why the entire community basically rejects it.
Ive heard Florryworry say its his favorite button, its how I learned to use it. If you do it right you get to keep the troops thus letting you use the magic fort manpower. Ive seen Florryworry do this while on 0 manpower, totally worth it for only 10 mill.
Totally missed the slacken recruitment standards and I'm over 200 years into a game. Solid vid
1) don't use professionalism armies for sieging (this is where mercs are good... no manpower loss due to sieges either)
2) You can keep an army or two back drilling even during wars just to keep them in tip top fighting shape. I feel there are two scenarios:
a) Either you are taking a "bad fight" (early game), in this case you should drill before you DoW anyways because you need every edge you can get.
b) You are taking an easy fight because you've already snowballed. In this case you can afford to keep some of your army back drilling and keep "rotating" your armies. Kind of like how the Romans fought, send in fresh troops and pull back your exhausted ones continually. The argument here would be "if you can afford to keep armies back you might as well just declare more wars", but this can be risky.
TheRealXartaX but if you can afford to have armies in the back, why not just deploy them and crush the enemy immediately? Wouldn't that work too?
+Void
Usually it's kind of pointless, because what limits your progress against medium-size nations when you are massive-sized is waiting for forts to fall (one of the reasons siege ability is such a good perk). Usually PU's/Vassals/etc. can handle most of the fighting while you just send in the troops necessary to win the big ones. This way you never run out of manpower.
drilling costs way too much money to give you an edge. If you are lazy and dont want to reduce your maintenance every time it is kinda worth but otherwise it costs half your army upkeep,which is never worth it.
+SiiNuxX
Untrue. In the early game the edge of a drilled army will let you eke out a victory at a much lower cost, which is important as you've yet to establish dominance, as well as obviously start building professionalism. Mid game or later you are drowning in cash if you've been building properly (I usually end up just building all the canals for the lulz, even though it's completely unnecessary).
At 10 untis you got an upkeep of almst 3 ducats. You can safe 1.5 ducats per month. To fully drill your units it takes 120 months. so you are basically losing 180 ducats. If you would fight someone that drilled for the same time with the same amount of troops you just build 6 mercs and you beat him up. It's just useless to drill if you are small and dont have endless money.
2nd of professionalism is very useful when you have high war exhaustion, if you noticed that some forts already being siege, which aren't totally, loose MP and victory of war in EU IV is based on that last moment when are both sided exhausted and that last battle is decisive. So if you think that can be quite useful to fill up your garrison it can provide you better chances to reconstruct your army if you lost last battle. Mixed with attrition ideas could turn war upside down.
Are these dlc? I havent got the training icon and the profession bar
I can't believe drilling and professionalism have been in the game for longer than 2 years now, time sure flies by!
The thing about supply depots is it lets speedy reinforcement out of your territory. Any province you have the supply depots benefit lets armies reinforce as if it was home territory, letting them bounce back from bloody battles deep on enemy clay just as fast as the enemy army. It's situational, but it helps a LOT in giant wars
Very good guide! But i think Quantity is still viable but i would recommend to stop the progress before the unlock of the force limit mod.. So quantity is nerfed and defence is a good alternative but quantity is still a good pick for early game (my opinion)
tjaenig Quantity is great for boosting a small nation in the early game, and is still very useful in the mid-game when paired with economic ideas (the extra cash helps you to afford more men).
Many players say that. In my opinion its good for all nations (also for big nations like ottomans or france), ok in late game you have a ton of manpower but in multyplayer you cant have to much manpower. As long as you have manpower you can fight back without crippling your nation. The 50 % more manpower and 20 % recovery ones are the best military ideas thats why Quantity is the best military idea group in most cases. (the perks you get from any other one cant match the numerous advantage from quantity)
But yes quantity + economic works great (- 20 % upkeep comined) with defence you can stack up to 30 %, with revolution you get - 80 % :D
While, by now, professionalism is a straight forward case for most players, and people know what to expect and whether to try to get to 100% or not, for me it does a few things:
-it plays into my playstyle, giving me additional combat ability and siege ability (im full quality base every game)
-the abilities gained through levelling professionalism are really good, especially the cheap generals and reduced morale damage to back ranks
-the bonuses from professionalism are global, and dont have to be grinded for each stack individually
-mercs are highly unreliable in their current form; being unable to compose a proper stack out of them means youre taking whatever is available; running around with a 50k stack of infantry is not gonna win you a single battle against a stack with some 20k cannons in the back row; < this is particularily annoying when playing states with low manpower, who would love to use mercs en masse, but cant make them work because of their inflexible nature
So, what happens when somebody saying "professionalism isnt worth it" gets into a fight with someone having 100% professionalism? They get cock slapped over the face by someone who actually has a fully drilled army. Maybe in MP professionalism isnt worth it, and i imagine it isnt, given the cutthroat style of gameplay there, where everyone goes quantity, but in single player, being able to beat larger stacks with smaller ones? Professionalism all the way.
Discovering your channel currently, great content, I hope you will find the motivation to do some more videos in the future :)
Reman, you are the best EU4 content creater on youtube. You make great quality in debth videos that go straight to the point. Please keep making them.
FUCKYOURSELF GOOGLE Wanna someone play with me Eu4 or HoI4? Steam name Woiwode Tepes
In order to save cash ive been seperating my infantry and only drilling them since theyre bother the cheapest and most abundant unit type
I like to only drill cannons that I wont seige with, they dont die and lose drill unless I fuck up
But they only do 50% from backrow right? You're only doing 55% damage with cannoncs anyway, and cannons doesn't git gud before 16th tech* (correct me If I wrote the wrong tech), isn't it a waste before then since cannons ARE for sieges before the "special" tech.
As far as I know they become better than Infantry at Tech 14. At that point they do double the fire damage as infantry thanks to the +1 Fire Damage of Tech 14, so they basically do the same amount of damage from their Backrow as Infantry does from the frontrow. So before that point it's no use having cannons unless you're sieging.
FlolF Cannons reduce casualties in the units in front of them during fire phase, so they aren't _entirely_ useless...
Cannon Defensive pips make Infantry and cav in the frontrow take less damage.
Can you do a vid on optimal army composition throughout game and across cultures? would be very useful
Optimal depends on a lot. Your religion/culture, national ideas, tech group, idea groups, economy, etc. can all drastically affect what an "optimal" army looks like. Generally, in the early game, you want a ratio of cavalry to infantry equal to your specific nation's allowed cavalry ratio (50% without modifiers), cannons equal to infantry + cavalry, and neither cannons nor infantry + cavalry being over your nation's combat width unless you're fighting someone with more width than you. Late game, cavalry becomes less important and you want just a few units per army to deploy on your flanks, so replace most of it with infantry for the better fire pips and cheaper maintenence. And prioritize unit types with offensive pips if you're outnumbering the enemy, defensive otherwise.
These are optimal in performance, but that's with price being no object. Cavalry and cannons are freaking expensive, so most nations can't afford to make either of these "model armies" without also building massively under the land forcelimit.
Hi reman, you've helped me so much since discovering you. I found one of your threads in the Paradox forums about trade good values, and I especially liked the noteworthy regions you talked about afterward. Someone necroed the thread due to the trade good changes in Cradle of Civilization, and I was wondering if you would be making a video about it :) it would make a lot of people very happy I'm sure, since playing the economic game is much less stale than just blobbing. Thanks!
3:29 Wait, did you just click a random choice in the Comet Sighted event? RANDOM?
TRIGGERED!
I think that they changed the reserve moral damage taken with the general cost thingy, also increasing less moral damage take to 100%
One annoying thing about drilling is that it drains morale similar to dropping army maintenance down to 0. So if there is a surprise war or a random opportunity to declare war on someone occurs, then you have to wait a couple of months for your morale to tick back up to full.
Drilling armies also keep the same unrest reduction bonus, so during peace time, when you have a stack on a province that'd otherwise spawn rebels, you can just take a couple months of free drilling, since the pay for the army is the same.
Similarly if you're a very large nation and are planning to fight a war on the opposite side of your nation as you are right now and you don't need to send all of your armies to the current one, you can simply keep the other ones drilling.
Am I the only one who finds it amusing that we now have a second stat that models the exact same thing army tradition was supposed to represent?
03:35 You don't have to keep the armies at full maintenance while they're drilling. Am I wrong?
Sinan Egilmez drilling armies are put at full maintenance, regardless of what your army maintenance bar is at. It is like condotierri, they will be full maintenance even if the rest of your units aren't.
Sinan Egilmez yes
Honestly, I really don't like professionalism. I'd prefer if they just made a two way street instead (kind of like piety for muslims), where one grants good mercs and one grants professonal troops.
Having untrained troops cant be good for anything xD it's not the same
@@onyxsuccubus The soviets lost 10 million soldiers.
@@kenobi6257 Quantity ideas
I have all of the major dlcs but just cannot drill my army idk what to do anymore
I guess Mercs are even stronger now. As you said ( and as every experienced player most likly knows) money is normally not an issue in the late game. Considering that 100 mercs equals 15% AP combined with the cheaper generals you should have no problems sitting at 90-100 AP. Especially combined with Innovative, Economy and Quality you get pure deathstacks there.
Aside from drilling to gain AP i guess its usefull in the HRE since you spend a lot of time doing nothing anyways thou there is the danger of losing your army if getting declared on. I think that Quantity is still better for larger nations at the start since the really good ideas in there are the first four so you just wait to get the last one and the finisher. But i guess thats my personal preference. Nice video as always mate :)
I needed this
What do you think of the bonus that Janissaries get to drill speed?
They immediately nerfed professionalsm by moving general cost reduction to 100% threshold so that now if you use slacken recruiting standarts, you have to recruit generals for their full cost... Oh well, it was probably really op the way it was...
Great work
Here is what I do with drilling
1)I am drilling when I start winning so new trained men will be ready to burst drain enemy man power next war
2)I ALLWAYS siege with men that has not drilled or reinforced stack
3)Allways drill artilarity because they die last
Could you do a video on janissaries ?
I have been testing using mercs on sieges. Kinda expensive, but it keeps your elite troops fit for battle.
Great tip about deleting ships. Naval missions now cost sailors, so naval manpower can be a real issue.
So, I've been thinking about how drilling could help, and I've come to the conclusion it can be really OP if you stack the right modifers. I'm thinking a shia manchu prussian monarchy, here's the evil plan.
Manchu culture for banners (10% discipline)
Shia for the -10% shock damage taken school. Ibadi also works.
Prussian Monarchy for 10% discipline
Mandatory custom national ideas
+10% disciple. You want max discipline
-20% shock/fire casualties. You want to minimize your casualties.
Quality ideas, offensive ideas, & economic ideas. With the policy, you can get another 15% discipline.
Nice bonuses:
+60% cav/inf ratio. All calvary armies, all the time.
+1 mil on rulers. Combined with prussian monarchy, you get a minimum of 4 military for every ruler.
Lower corruption, as your banner usage is limited by corruption.
At it's most basic, you're looking at armies with 45% bonus discipline, -30% shock damage taken, & -20% fire damage taken. Then you fully drill it for another -10% damage taken & bonus damage dealt.
i prefer having 100% infantry combat ability
Infantry combat ability increases damage done. Discipline also increases damage done, but also reduces damage taken. 45% discipline would reduce casualties taken by about 31% and increase casualties inflicted by 45% at the same time. A defensive focus would also allow drilling to last longer, by virtue of taking less casualties, as well as be easier on your manpower pool.
I'm not 100% sure on how the order of operations for casualties. But if discipline & damage taken from fire/shock are multiplicative you're looking at 45% less damage taken in fire & 51% less damage taken in shock before factoring drilling. Your first battle, pre-casualties, would have 51% less fire damage & 59% less shock damage.
Adding in a commandant would increase these results to 47% fire/53% shock reduction pre-drilling & 53% fire/60% shock reduction post-drilling. Since I derped and forgot to include absolutism in the initial calculations, that improves it to 49% fire/ 55% shock pre-drilling & 55% fire/ 62% shock post-drilling. And since this reduces casualties taken, a 62% reduction would mean you could survive 2.6 times as many shock phases for example.
Of course, my math may be completely wrong as I'm not sure on how military tactics, which disicpline multiplies, affects casualties on the mathematical level. But with a multiplicative modifer being very conservative, there is potential for massively OP armies with the right ideas, government, & other modifiers. And considering I forgot to account for absolutism, there's a lot that could potentially improve this further. For example, going for a religion like norse or hindu for 5% discipline over 10% shock reduction may be superior depending on how tactics calculations work.
What's your oppinion of this change in Patch 1.24:
- Unit movement speed reduced from 1 to 0.7.
- Drilled armies now have an increased movement speed. 20% faster at 100%. Mercenaries will however slow them down.
@Reman's Paradox ?
I played a game in the middle east and early game when Supply limit is horrendous its helpful, also because you resupply in enemy territory as if you were in owned territory so long as a supply depot is in the area.
In regards to the Supply depot.
So, some of the stuff in this video might not be the same as of the patch coming out later this month, from the latest dev diary:
" Additionally, Army Drill will increase an army's movement speed by up to 20% at full drill, so a well prepared army will have a much easier time moving into position compared to green units.
(...)
the Supply Depot, which boosts reinforcement rate and supply limit, will last for 5 years instead of 2. The Reserves Morale Impact is now more effective due to increased daily morale damage and has switched places with the reduced General Costs"
In fact some of this sounds like they looked at this video and moved stuff according to it
They should definitely buff this as it played a huge role in how the Royal Navy was able to completely overpower other navies including the French and Spanish combined. Great Britain didn't have all of the best tech and they didn't have the numbers. What they had was good sailors and good leaders. The sailors for example could load and shot their cannon twice as fast as the competition and they could keep this up under extreme stress which was a killer advantage. Master & Commander covers this well.
Today's dev diray mentioned some changes to professionalism and drilling in the upcoming patch. Are you going to make a video about how this changes your conclusion about professionalism in this video?
Hey, what if your Army Professionalism determined what level of drill unit reinforcements would be at?
For example, if you had an infantry at exactly 500 men and 100 drill, 0 professionalism would give you 1000 men at 50 drill, 50 professionalism would give 1000 men with 75 drill, and 100 professionalism would give 1000 men with 100 drill. Does anyone think that would make drilling troops for those bonuses worthwhile?
Hello l dont have drill button what do l need to do ? Dlc or steamworkshopp
Please answer
It's enabled by Cradle of civilisation DLC.
If in doubt about a feature you can't access in EU4 it's likely locked behind a DLC.
Can you do an updated Three Mountains/Ryukyu guide?
2 things:
1. How can you make custom map with 2 countries and rest is uninhabited? Do you have to click on every province or is there some 'clear' option I don't know about?
2. Can you put more graphic data while you're talking (like you did with Trade analisys e.g. )? Sometimes I try to visualize what are you saying but for non-native English speaker it takes me a bit time. Thx in advance.
Agree with nr 2.
On nr 1, if you have a certain DLC that allows cursom nations you can set the world settings to either: "Historical, Randomized, Empty",
where "Randomized" can have either historical countries names and flags, or having that randomized too.
valrossenOliver OK, so it's in the El Dorado settings. Thx again.
I think Professionalism is kind of a way to improve players. The AI still goe hard on mercs and through their traits nearly always have their events eat up their army professionalism. So if you get your AP in the first 100 years of a campaign which is absolutly possible You can even take quantity idead afterwards if you need them that hard. Concerning drilling I only think it's worthwhile if you play ottomans on Janissaris at 100% AP. At that point you get ~2,5 Drilling per Month which does make fights against armies easier as one might think while sieging their with troups which don't have any Drill.
paradox is working on an update for this care to do an updated take on that? also could you do a video on when its worth developing a province? i usually guess that up to 50 monarch power cost is ok
Paradox is going to nerf that manpower from professionalism button into the ground.
11:40
LOL
this is a really vid, in fact all your vid guides are really good. :)
have you considered doing similar videos of paradoxes other games ?
Learn a lot from your videos, but man, you should really consider making some playlists
(Sorry a bit long, the main question is at the end). Would you say that drilling would be more useful for a nation playing tall (or at least temporarily playing tall)? I had been away from the game for a few months and came back recently with Rule Britannia, and also bought the dlc's I had been waiting on a sale for. I did a England (of course, its Rule Britannia) and in addition to the normal make France you lap dog bit, got some lucky PU's (Naples, Sweden), and monopolized the new world colony scene until the mid 1700's when Otto finally got a bit onto the North American pacific coast. So with 13 vassals+colonies, I really had little need for personal military outside of my navy. Because of this, I took only quality ideas (at group 5) for mil. As a result, I was dumping into manpower development to shed mil points. I got lucky with a divine ruler that actually lived til 70's and for some reason just had high mil rulers regardless. I was constantly running up to cap. Point is, the whole merc strategy for island nations thing became a non-issue. Granted, a lot went my way this game, but winning the PU on France is really enough to trivialize manpower. If one were to simply use small units to attach and command vassal/ally regiments, would that then make drilling (absent the professionalism) a useful investment?
Hi ! I'd love to know how you do your tests? How to have 2 armies identical in all points except one stat and how to make them always have 5 on the dice, etc...
Please do more nation spotlights
This seems to be an unintentional buff for prussia. Now there's not only the space marines but it also gets a hefty boost to it's ability to replenish it's manpower through the slacken recruitment standards button (because of the +3 to monarch mil points of prussian monarchy). Endless hordes of prussian space marines amirite?
I was thinking of another strat could be if you have a larger army than the person you are fighting you have two different main armies. 1 that is fighting and the other that drills. And swap them out when they drilling army gets to a desirable level. You also forgot to mention that drilling has a chance to improve your generals
Aye, I get the feeling they're going to buff drilling at least - if not some of the 'bonus' stages of professionalism.
I'm assuming they were just cautious not to make it utterly overpowered since it's already meta-shifting as it is.
i dont have drilling on my units ? why? do i need expansion pack or open army tech?>
3:30 Comet sighted
Waiting for this one
Does anybody know if they've remove "the janissaries" event for the ottomans?
When I deleted my mercs i got manpower from them, is this supposed to happen????
Hey Reman - Big fan of your videos. I have a question, and I figured you might be the best to ask, if nothing else take as a compliment and a suggestion for a future video. And sorry it doesn't have anything to with this great video. I am playing a Ryukyu game everything is going fantastic. 7000 development and the year is 1678. Your guide on absolutism and Ryukyu strategy helped alot. However I dedcided to trying my luck on grabbing the Mandate from Ming - so I went Hinda -> flipped to Buddhist, and now i would love to go Coptic now. But I am having trouble spawning zealots. I only get nationalist, so I am stuck as a Buddhist for now. If you could bring some religion in a future video and flipping strategies it would be a great topic.
I went into the Defines.lua and doubled the drilling speed factor.
The biggest grumble I have with drill is the fact that it tanks the stacks' morale. Like, how does basic exercises demoralise the troops as much as not paying them?
maybe they're tired and need a rest :0
I think it makes sense to have very low or at least lower morale.
Drilling is extremely tiring and abusing of the soldiers. Non-stop exercises, wakes in the middle of the night just to go out marching for 30Km with 40Kg of backpack. A lot of pain from wounds and exercises beyond their current limit. A ton of mental pressure all day long. And so on. Of course they'll need some time to recover. Though I guess that recovery time should be like 1 entire month.
To be fair, while the recovery time feels long at the same time battles themselves can potentially go for a long time so in terms of game balance I think it's a reasonable length of time to recover troop morale.
How come that I don't have the Dlc,cause im poor and the enemie Ai has Drill bonus but I cant
Well a new patch will come and they changed the position of half general cost with the last one also movements are from 1.0->0.7, fully drilled armies have %20 movement speed increase, is it still worth drilling ?
Huh, i think they switched around the bonuses for the last 2 bonuses from professionalism recently
Hi Reman's Paradox, I have a question. After changes to the game you mention in your second Army Academy, is Cradle of Civ still worth buying? This is the last proper DLC I did not buy yet, and rigth now there is a discount on one of the polish websites. Thank you in advance.
Great video :)
What did you think of the other features in Cradle of Civ?
More please.
I use Refill garrison ll the time Enemy takes one of your forts they leave you run in blow the walls down then kill the small amount of men inside then quickly refill the entire garrison burn the province then retreat forcing them to lose thousands of men retaking the fort best done when you have the manpower to burn though
See, I just played a game as Switzerland. I felt drilling was quite handy. Me and almost all of my neighbors early game had max maintenance and or were drilling. I almost always ended wars with most of my troops at least at 10 % drill or more. Most of us had max main. anyway since we are all very skeptical of our neighbors and only one bad battle will likely mean death at that stage. Fast forward 150 years and I'm beating France 1v1 in war. But yeah at the end of that war all of my drill was practically sapped. And I've always had some of the most gold in the game, and my maintenance has been at 100% for like 90% of the game so far.
IDK maybe its very good early and when you are small, but less valuable as you grow and time moves on. Plus when you fight mercs against drilled armies theoretically you should crush the mercs.
I hear music i heard on rimworld around 6:00
Why aren't I drilling my reserves? That seems like a serious lack of foresight.