Another great video report. I work in the factory automation world. Seeing how difficult it is to automate a process like this (low volume, high variability, heavy in-process inspection) always amazes me. One starts to understand why these motors cost what they do....
I took a course in college called "systems engineering". Basically, the traveling salesman problem, or BK with a thousand outlets, multiple warehouses, multiple suppliers, and parameters governing all of them. What is the best solution for distribution/storage, etc., given the constraints on storage time, transportation costs/unit/distance, etc.? I thought it was going to be boring as hell, as a EE without much direct interest, but it turned out to be quite interesting and fun. This is that course taken to the extreme, with the relative locations of binning, tooling, parts, work stations, etc. I suspect it's all done iteratively on a computer now, but the efficiency of a shop like this benefits incredibly from that discipline. Great vid, after seeing it, I would purchase a rebuild from them anytime, albeit with some additional research on user results, which I suspect are good.
Lycoming is the best. A couple of years me and my instructor where flying in a Cessna 172 when he noticed oil spilling out from the cowling while practicing maneuvers . He immediately declared a direct turn to the airport and told me I had controls while he looked for landing spot in case the engine quit and we had to put it down. The nearest airport was 20 miles away and oil was quickly spilling out. I was very nervous our engine would suddenly quit on us for lack of oil. Remember seeing emergency vehicles as we approached the airport. Thankfully we landed safely and upon inspection we found that the engine oil dipstick had become loose in flight. I thank my life to Lycoming for making an engine that brought me safely back to the ground.
Lycoming could by now have a water-cooled, ecu efi piston engine with half the fuel consumption of their air-cooled engines today. To top it off their air-cooled engine is typically enclosed. Low volume market scales suck.
Your statement is factually incorrect. Clearly you have zero understanding of BSFC of the Lycoming air cooled engines vs best available in liquid cooled engines of any type.
Your statement is factually incorrect. Clearly you have zero understanding of BSFC of the Lycoming air cooled engines vs best available in liquid cooled engines of any type.
New Zealand's market is too small for efficient manufacturing so Fisher and Paykel developed a production line that could mix it's product by 35 types, colour, options, etc. That technology was licenced to thousands of manufacturers so that at one timeo, half of all production lines employed their technology. Lycoming left it late and might have avoided the patents but the losses over forty years of low productivity, cost a great deal.
You’d think the price for overhauling would’ve come down by now. Looking forward to hybrid and electric power plants to replace these archaic machinery. SMOH will be extended to 3500-5000 hours and cost $10,000 rather than $30,000.
I personally molded these parts, 6 cylinder crank case and 4, the very first prototype 8. For fifty +years the Phillips foundry produced lycoming castings. Then in 1999 they invested in new automated machines to mold with, it was supposed to increase the productivity by twice. In the end it slowed it down by half,and lost the other half to scrap. Also it cost the foundry to collapse,bank rupture. Then lycoming took it to another foundry for production. The same thing that happened to GM , Dodge. And other motor parts manufacturers.the new machinery is junk ,operation is not always good, and machines break down or just have problems on and off . It’s a costly venture, and I watched 110 employees,drop to 54 employees, I think I would of stayed with the older machines,besides the old stuff was like fifty or more yrs old and still worked fine,,,no way new machines will last .
The design of some areas of Lycoming engines falls short of the design of Continental engines. The high mounted camshaft in Lyc. engines is prone to lobe and lifter face rust if the engine is not run for a period of time while the low mounted camshaft in the Continental engine benefits from the oil drip effect on to the camshaft, meaning a longer period for lobe rusting to begin due to engine inactivity. On many Lycoming powered aircraft, one has to remove the prop in order to replace an alternator belt. A Lyc. is a heavier engine that a Continental due to the fact that the Lyc. has a starter ring gear on the nose of the engine while a Continental has the starter mounted on the accessory gear case and does not need a starter ring gear. The big question is , when will Continental come under American ownership again-? Well at least they got a new factory in Mobile with state of the art machinery in the deal with China.
Reasonable? Have you bought a new engine this century? Compare the price of a GM LS1 crate engine (complete) with a Lycoming crate engine, if you can find an outlet. This is simply a difference in economic scale of volume, I accept that. But reasonable is hard to define against the hard envelope of a typical working salary. A GA light aircraft engine shouldn't be more than a typical yearly wages before tax. I'm saying this because I'm constantly between jobs, and it bites watching the parade of things I can't have eating the remaining time I have left before a Summer's day - my youth - has long since departed, and I follow into the next life hereafter.
@@MikeCris It's extremely reasonable considering that it has almost no economies of scale supporting the price and product liability risks are huge. How many times a year do you think Lycoming is sued? I'd bet the number would make your head spin.
Thanks for the nice video. One question though. At 1:44 why is the tech. cranking down on one of the cylinder head base studs with the "CP" looking impact gun that appears to have no torque limiter?
Patrick, by CP, I assume you mean Harbor Fright. LOL. I hope the answer would be that the gun is pressure set to be well below the final torque, and then they are hand torqued to spec, but good observation.
That's a VERY common misconception. CNC operators aren't monkeys, you need to be a competent machinist not to destroy (very) expensive machine tools. The most employable machinists are proficient at manual AND CNC. Both have important roles, and manual machine tools are highly suited to repair machining and single-part production where it's much faster and easier to do the work manually instead of setting up a CNC. Many large, specialty manual machine tools aren't remotely economic to replace with CNC. That's why my highly successful machinist bro has a mix of full CNC, open knee mills with CNC control but which permit "manual" style operations, two WWII era American Pacemaker manual lathes which are works of art, and even an early 1900s Cincinnati shaper in nearly mint condition!
i have a rare 4 cylindar lycoming 1930s airplane engine that i would like to sell . i sell on ebay but don't know how i would ever ship this engine so if you are interested in seeing it and could give me some shipping tips , i would love to hear from you . its complete with carb , exhaust and engine mount . its a pretty object .
Please don't sell out like Teledyne-Continental did to the Chinese. What a disgrace! I know your problems - hard to find motivated and sober workers that realize you can't give them 50$ an hour. Sadly, In this regard the Chinese are way ahead of us.
Dude, they had DOHC and SOHC and fuel injection, albeit crude, since WWI. It's like it got stinted when the turbines and jets grew into their own, but there's so much room for growth with the piston engines and IMO still a market
The FAA was responsible for the use of vacuum tubes , 30 years after the technology was obsolete. They are also the reason we are still flying these reliable, yet obsolete engines. The cost of certification of new designs is to blame. Trump won because people are fed up with government bureaucrats and their regulations, which punish innovation and creativity, and reward cronyism and business as usual. I know that there is limited demand for aircraft engines compared to auto engines, so they will always be expensive, but making it easier to certify new designs is what we need. The experimental market may be the only answer.
Russell Lowry In Australia regulation has completely wiped out our light aircraft industry to the point it barely exist from a thriving profitable industry 30 eras ago, I did not know about it and I am very well informed on local issues and only became aware when there was a article about the Bankstown airport being desolate with no aircraft compared to 30 years ago and went into the reasons why , incredible how the government who supposed to assist the community actually destroys the community , but this issue is small beer compared to the wider community and economy and what the Socialist Government do to this country , we are virtually a Marxist state in all but name .
Porsche tried to enter the AV engine market but failed in reliability. Air cooling saves weight which is at a premium in small planes. Diesel may be one exception due to fuel, turbocharging/altitude benefits. Diesels have really done well in trucks, approaching 50% efficiency.
@@tobyw9573 Yet another aspect or the Porsche PFM 3200 engine, is that it had 6 cylinders, a gearbox, a cooling fan, ... And so in the end was more expensive to produce while doing the same thing, for the same weight, as the 4 cylinder baseline aircraft engine.
Lean Manufacturing is grossly over-used, and this manager spews buzzword after buzzword. Having endured unending Kaizen trauma, listening to this doof makes me want to hit my head with a brick! :)
You can see in their eyes that some of those workers are almost bored to death doing the same things over and over again for decades. But then, what else can do if this business hits bottom.
We thought we were having trouble with youtube cause the people were moving so slow, thought has to be a problem, nope, UAW boys worm drive moving. That's why they're in financial trouble, $25 bucks an hour and 2/3 less productivity. They do a little stand around and talk. I wonder if they go to the local store at lunch time to guzzle a quart of beer and smoke reefer like the UAW boys working for dodge? Also, I wonder if they bet each other as to who can get the most defects passes quality control like the UAW boys in Detroit!! Sooner than later boys, you're gonna lose your job and it will be your fault and the union, count on it. Go ahead and cuss me out, it's ok have tantrum on me.
![Aircraft Engine Overhaul [How It's Done]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Fvg-9ceqiIA/mqdefault.jpg)
Another great video report. I work in the factory automation world. Seeing how difficult it is to automate a process like this (low volume, high variability, heavy in-process inspection) always amazes me. One starts to understand why these motors cost what they do....
Iconic, beautiful, reliable. I might sound like a nerd, but each of those engines is a work of art
I took a course in college called "systems engineering". Basically, the traveling salesman problem, or BK with a thousand outlets, multiple warehouses, multiple suppliers, and parameters governing all of them. What is the best solution for distribution/storage, etc., given the constraints on storage time, transportation costs/unit/distance, etc.?
I thought it was going to be boring as hell, as a EE without much direct interest, but it turned out to be quite interesting and fun. This is that course taken to the extreme, with the relative locations of binning, tooling, parts, work stations, etc. I suspect it's all done iteratively on a computer now, but the efficiency of a shop like this benefits incredibly from that discipline.
Great vid, after seeing it, I would purchase a rebuild from them anytime, albeit with some additional research on user results, which I suspect are good.
Lycoming is the best. A couple of years me and my instructor where flying in a Cessna 172 when he noticed oil spilling out from the cowling while practicing maneuvers . He immediately declared a direct turn to the airport and told me I had controls while he looked for landing spot in case the engine quit and we had to put it down. The nearest airport was 20 miles away and oil was quickly spilling out. I was very nervous our engine would suddenly quit on us for lack of oil. Remember seeing emergency vehicles as we approached the airport. Thankfully we landed safely and upon inspection we found that the engine oil dipstick had become loose in flight. I thank my life to Lycoming for making an engine that brought me safely back to the ground.
This is an isolated incident and in no way can be compared to a Continental engine.
I'd like to have one of those new engines sitting in my garage so I could just go out and paw it up once in a while. They're so beautiful to look at.
They're even more beautiful under the cowl. Even better, you can taxi out to the runway and fly with them. :-)
Fantastic video! Very interesting to see how a powerhouse like Lycoming manufactures their products!!! Thanks for sharing another great video!!!
So.... so much easier to build engines... and prices still like 1000% than before...
Lycoming could by now have a water-cooled, ecu efi piston engine with half the fuel consumption of their air-cooled engines today. To top it off their air-cooled engine is typically enclosed. Low volume market scales suck.
Your statement is factually incorrect. Clearly you have zero understanding of BSFC of the Lycoming air cooled engines vs best available in liquid cooled engines of any type.
Your statement is factually incorrect. Clearly you have zero understanding of BSFC of the Lycoming air cooled engines vs best available in liquid cooled engines of any type.
New Zealand's market is too small for efficient manufacturing so Fisher and Paykel developed a production line that could mix it's product by 35 types, colour, options, etc. That technology was licenced to thousands of manufacturers so that at one timeo, half of all production lines employed their technology. Lycoming left it late and might have avoided the patents but the losses over forty years of low productivity, cost a great deal.
I know that the Lycoming engine is one of the toughest and most dependable on the market!
Compared to what? The other one manufacturer that builds the same basic engines?
@@PistonAvatarGuy good point 🤔
What do you mean by 'toughest'-?
Produce some numbers and data from a reputable source.
You’d think the price for overhauling would’ve come down by now. Looking forward to hybrid and electric power plants to replace these archaic machinery. SMOH will be extended to 3500-5000 hours and cost $10,000 rather than $30,000.
I was just going to leave a smartass comment about DEL-120, but Paul forestalled it with the announcement. Can't wait for that video.
AWESOME VIDEO, LYCOMING HAS A GREAT REPUTATION OF ENGINE QUALITY & CUSTOMER SATISFACTION.!!
You are well brainwashed by the video.
Why are ALL the AVWEB videos audio distorted?! Turn down the input gain!
>.>
@Jamel Hasson What the hell does this have to do with the video?
@@cschieweck It has everything to do with it. It's clipped to hell. Very important to have good audio production values.
The #Lycoming Tradition. Go #TeamLycomning .
Nice to know Cosworth are involved
I personally molded these parts, 6 cylinder crank case and 4, the very first prototype 8. For fifty +years the Phillips foundry produced lycoming castings. Then in 1999 they invested in new automated machines to mold with, it was supposed to increase the productivity by twice. In the end it slowed it down by half,and lost the other half to scrap. Also it cost the foundry to collapse,bank rupture. Then lycoming took it to another foundry for production. The same thing that happened to GM , Dodge. And other motor parts manufacturers.the new machinery is junk ,operation is not always good, and machines break down or just have problems on and off . It’s a costly venture, and I watched 110 employees,drop to 54 employees, I think I would of stayed with the older machines,besides the old stuff was like fifty or more yrs old and still worked fine,,,no way new machines will last .
The design of some areas of Lycoming engines falls short of the design of Continental engines.
The high mounted camshaft in Lyc. engines is prone to lobe and lifter face rust if the engine is not run for a period of time while the low mounted camshaft in the Continental engine benefits from the oil drip effect on to the camshaft, meaning a longer period for lobe rusting to begin due to engine inactivity.
On many Lycoming powered aircraft, one has to remove the prop in order to replace an alternator belt.
A Lyc. is a heavier engine that a Continental due to the fact that the Lyc. has a starter ring gear on the nose of the engine while a Continental has the starter mounted on the accessory gear case and does not need a starter ring gear.
The big question is , when will Continental come under American ownership again-?
Well at least they got a new factory in Mobile with state of the art machinery in the deal with China.
Thank you for sharing。
My Cherokee had a O-360 and is was a smooth reliable engine.
Now is much more cheap to build their engines, but they still charging the price of your eyes for each engine and parts.
Lycombing got me down safely for years😀😀
Investing in New machines is good, but what about new engine technology!
The fact that they can one off an engine within a reasonable cost is amazing.
Reasonable? Have you bought a new engine this century? Compare the price of a GM LS1 crate engine (complete) with a Lycoming crate engine, if you can find an outlet. This is simply a difference in economic scale of volume, I accept that. But reasonable is hard to define against the hard envelope of a typical working salary. A GA light aircraft engine shouldn't be more than a typical yearly wages before tax. I'm saying this because I'm constantly between jobs, and it bites watching the parade of things I can't have eating the remaining time I have left before a Summer's day - my youth - has long since departed, and I follow into the next life hereafter.
Reasonable? Check the prices...$50-100K for a new piston engine is hardly reasonable.
@@MikeCris It's extremely reasonable considering that it has almost no economies of scale supporting the price and product liability risks are huge. How many times a year do you think Lycoming is sued? I'd bet the number would make your head spin.
Cool
Love Paul's informational videos..
Thanks for the nice video. One question though. At 1:44 why is the tech. cranking down on one of the cylinder head base studs with the "CP" looking impact gun that appears to have no torque limiter?
Patrick, by CP, I assume you mean Harbor Fright. LOL. I hope the answer would be that the gun is pressure set to be well below the final torque, and then they are hand torqued to spec, but good observation.
can you build a helicoper engine that can produce 90 house power and keep the weight down.
That's in Pennsylvania.
Also home to Little League World Series & a great Harley Davidson shop....! 😎👍
hi D...
'
what city local in
smame about the background music
Machinists are soon going to be as rare as blacksmiths.
That's a VERY common misconception. CNC operators aren't monkeys, you need to be a competent machinist not to destroy (very) expensive machine tools. The most employable machinists are proficient at manual AND CNC. Both have important roles, and manual machine tools are highly suited to repair machining and single-part production where it's much faster and easier to do the work manually instead of setting up a CNC. Many large, specialty manual machine tools aren't remotely economic to replace with CNC. That's why my highly successful machinist bro has a mix of full CNC, open knee mills with CNC control but which permit "manual" style operations, two WWII era American Pacemaker manual lathes which are works of art, and even an early 1900s Cincinnati shaper in nearly mint condition!
i have a rare 4 cylindar lycoming 1930s airplane engine that i would like to sell . i sell on ebay but don't know how i would ever ship this engine so if you are interested in seeing it and could give me some shipping tips , i would love to hear from you . its complete with carb , exhaust and engine mount . its a pretty object .
What does the data plate say
Please don't sell out like Teledyne-Continental did to the Chinese. What a disgrace! I know your problems - hard to find motivated and sober workers that realize you can't give them 50$ an hour. Sadly, In this regard the Chinese are way ahead of us.
Same old piston engine they were coming out with more advanced engines than this during World War II
Dude, they had DOHC and SOHC and fuel injection, albeit crude, since WWI. It's like it got stinted when the turbines and jets grew into their own, but there's so much room for growth with the piston engines and IMO still a market
The FAA was responsible for the use of vacuum tubes , 30 years after the technology was obsolete. They are also the reason we are still flying these reliable, yet obsolete engines. The cost of certification of new designs is to blame. Trump won because people are fed up with government bureaucrats and their regulations, which punish innovation and creativity, and reward cronyism and business as usual. I know that there is limited demand for aircraft engines compared to auto engines, so they will always be expensive, but making it easier to certify new designs is what we need. The experimental market may be the only answer.
Russell Lowry In Australia regulation has completely wiped out our light aircraft industry to the point it barely exist from a thriving profitable industry 30 eras ago, I did not know about it and I am very well informed on local issues and only became aware when there was a article about the Bankstown airport being desolate with no aircraft compared to 30 years ago and went into the reasons why , incredible how the government who supposed to assist the community actually destroys the community , but this issue is small beer compared to the wider community and economy and what the Socialist Government do to this country , we are virtually a Marxist state in all but name .
Porsche tried to enter the AV engine market but failed in reliability. Air cooling saves weight which is at a premium in small planes. Diesel may be one exception due to fuel, turbocharging/altitude benefits. Diesels have really done well in trucks, approaching 50% efficiency.
@@tobyw9573 Yet another aspect or the Porsche PFM 3200 engine, is that it had 6 cylinders, a gearbox, a cooling fan, ... And so in the end was more expensive to produce while doing the same thing, for the same weight, as the 4 cylinder baseline aircraft engine.
Wouldn’t want to be lycoming at the moment
028 , put a boat load of people out of work and much lost knowledge. sad, but what can you do?
Lycoming ist building the same aircraft engines since 85 years and that is why they are so durable and lightweight and consume so little gas.
Don’t know about consuming little gas-
Lean Manufacturing is grossly over-used, and this manager spews buzzword after buzzword. Having endured unending Kaizen trauma, listening to this doof makes me want to hit my head with a brick! :)
Perhaps, but it sounds like it's necessary
You can see in their eyes that some of those workers are almost bored to death doing the same things over and over again for decades. But then, what else can do if this business hits bottom.
'
no wonder why why workers uses caps on the heads...
how come this airplane company dont have clothes codes policys
We thought we were having trouble with youtube cause the people were moving so slow, thought has to be a problem, nope, UAW boys worm drive moving. That's why they're in financial trouble, $25 bucks an hour and 2/3 less productivity. They do a little stand around and talk. I wonder if they go to the local store at lunch time to guzzle a quart of beer and smoke reefer like the UAW boys working for dodge? Also, I wonder if they bet each other as to who can get the most defects passes quality control like the UAW boys in Detroit!! Sooner than later boys, you're gonna lose your job and it will be your fault and the union, count on it. Go ahead and cuss me out, it's ok have tantrum on me.
Diesel engines are shit
That sucks... all those mechanical machinists put out of work by the more modern machines. Damn unions.
Not necessary unions but innovation plays a huge part in downsizing where computerized machinery does a more cost effective and efficient workload!
Reggin.... your ignorance is showing
REGGIN RETNUH no,damn Management!
Man, thats pretty sad, you can see the low moral in the line workers...
Hopefully trump can get them back goin full speed again.