Great content...the simpler the better..just like italian cooking...I saw that clinic with Kurt Rosenwinkel too and it amazed me...and also Bill Frisell's statement that sometimes just the root is enough with the melody... kind regards from Germany
Great stuff! When the melody note is one of the guide tones I often play the other guide tone on the fifth or the sixth string. It is surprising how your ear fills in the rest. It is something about having more than an octave between the two notes, kinda like when you play tenths. Also they are pretty easy to finger so you can do it quickly if you need to.
Nice video! I’ve been thinking a lot about this recently, not really from the Kurt perspective but because Lage Lund and Pasquale Grasso use very similar types of shell intervals. I think in the latter case it relates to Bud Powell’s left hand shell voicings. I’ve heard Barry Harris play them too....
There’s also a great Ethan Iverson blog where he lists all the pianists who double the root in the left hand. Basically it’s everyone who isn’t Bill Evans. Ah, jazz education! Lies and shortcuts....
👍👍I love those spread voicings! A great tune I like to use for Voice leading practice is "Two for the road", the harmony is fundamentally straightforward and simultaneously very rich.
Mikko Hilden 😊You'll likely recognize it from Metheny/Haden's "Beyond the Missouri Sky". "Dreamsville" is another harmonically epic Henry Mancini tune that doesn't get enough attention
Thanks, Mikko - outstanding lesson! I really like the M7 thing, but I haven't thought of using them this way. Lots of new things to try. I would LOVE to see you follow up on your "too excited" part on adding contrary motion that you alluded to near the end.
rosenwinkel is musical first. jazzy second. what he does sounds simple. but its fluid. and beautiful. he meanders in and out of harmonic ideas one should weep over.
I think that the advice to use guide tones (3rds and 7ths) may be of use to beginning improvisers who otherwise might just play roots and 5ths. The advice given to a beginner isn’t necessarily appropriate to an intermediate player, however. An intermediate player should put guide tones aside and concentrate on developing skills in voice leading. At one point, I thought improvisation meant the ability to throw in a reharm on the fly (that is, I would get to the point where I picked the right color chord for that moment). Working out voice leading for a song seemed like just making something to fall back on in case I couldn’t think of something better. I now see things differently. Working out voice leading for different songs results in skills that are transferable to other songs, and that results in a more coherent solo.
Excellent thank you! Love your videos. Check out Jimmy Raney’s Just Friends from the album Momentum. He illustrates a lot of the points you make here. His three note voice leading using ninths has taught me a whole new level of voice leading. I never fully appreciated all the extensions until I started looking at them for their functions in voice leading.
thinking in consequent numbers(of inherent intevals) is very close to Bach(or Haendel). recently I found sketches of Bach what he used, the so called cifered bass, befor composing he made harmonic practices where certain intervals were isolated, no different than what you did...
Mikko Hilden what kind of nylon strings do you use on your Godin? How frequently do you need to replace them? I find on my Godin Multiac that my D string loses tone quickly and becomes a “dead zone”. I’ve had two of these guitars and the same issue with both. Thanks.
I definitely didn't agree with many things in this video. I don't think Kurt's purpose of this exercise was that of breaking the rules of "not playing the root" or "always play the 3rd and 7th of the chord". Those rules indeed do not apply to solo guitar playing, which is where kurt is applying this exercise. I think the idea behind this exercise is that by dividing each chord into two parts (1,7 and 3,5) you can have a more counterpoint-based approach to comping and a more organ-sound in it, but more importantly you can get to know the tune a lot better than you normally would do, exploring the changes in each section of the instruments. In the clinic Kurt says that many people who think they know a certain standard don't know it at all, and then he explains some of his exercises through which he gets to understand the standards to his level.
@@Mikkokosmos Ok I just noticed it's a Gmin9 with the 13th on top. My bad, I was too focused on the min9 sound and it sounded different to my ears, I'm used to play just Gmin with the two voices on top (minor 3rd and major6th) having a tritone distance between each other, while with the Gmin9 you have a perfect fifth (A-E) which personally I didn't love. But apart from that I still think the other things I said in the previous concept and I believe there is a kind of a misconception goin on
I mean I liked the thing you said about chord voicings and that kind of stuff. Triads, shell voicings and triad inversions and so forth are not often used by jazz musicians, which too often prefer to use complex-sounding extended chords and do not care about voice leading. Totally agree on that, sometimes the simple sounding chords can be the most interesting and even a root and seventh or a third and fifth can be "enough" for the ear to understand the harmony. But I think the purpose of the whole thing was to get to know the tune better. I mean indeed it can be used in a jazz guitar solo situation, but it doesn't necessarily have to clash with the more "vertical" view of the mainstream jazz musicians. I hope I explained what my point was
Here is the Gdańsk clinic video on the use of 3rds and 7ths on B&S. Good stuff, this!
ua-cam.com/video/8dFrKzPTEMg/v-deo.html
There it is!
Can’t wait for your lesson this!
Is this your video? Seems to have been set to private. :(
I dug this, great food for thought. Also especially liked you did it all in one go and dared to figure stuff out on the spot.
Thanks. There is a little bit of editing, though. To be honest 🤓
Great content...the simpler the better..just like italian cooking...I saw that clinic with Kurt Rosenwinkel too and it amazed me...and also Bill Frisell's statement that sometimes just the root is enough with the melody... kind regards from Germany
Another great lesson, clearly presented. Thanks very much.
Great stuff! When the melody note is one of the guide tones I often play the other guide tone on the fifth or the sixth string. It is surprising how your ear fills in the rest. It is something about having more than an octave between the two notes, kinda like when you play tenths. Also they are pretty easy to finger so you can do it quickly if you need to.
That video of the masterclass was inspiring!
Nice video! I’ve been thinking a lot about this recently, not really from the Kurt perspective but because Lage Lund and Pasquale Grasso use very similar types of shell intervals. I think in the latter case it relates to Bud Powell’s left hand shell voicings. I’ve heard Barry Harris play them too....
There’s also a great Ethan Iverson blog where he lists all the pianists who double the root in the left hand. Basically it’s everyone who isn’t Bill Evans. Ah, jazz education! Lies and shortcuts....
Really enjoy watching your videos. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and process. Very honest!
👍👍I love those spread voicings! A great tune I like to use for Voice leading practice is "Two for the road", the harmony is fundamentally straightforward and simultaneously very rich.
Cool I don't know that tune gotta check it out!
Mikko Hilden
😊You'll likely recognize it from Metheny/Haden's "Beyond the Missouri Sky". "Dreamsville" is another harmonically epic Henry Mancini tune that doesn't get enough attention
@@joshuamarks1129 oh then I have heard it 😀
Mikko Hilden
👍And I'm certain you'll enjoy Adrien Moignard's version
m.ua-cam.com/video/tP3sdj0wGco/v-deo.html
@@joshuamarks1129 That is a nice version.
Awesome. I save this for deeper study.
Godin guitars from Canada 🇨🇦 as well :) my teacher Ralf Buschmeyer studied with Lorne Lofsky in Ontario.
Thanks Joshua
Thanks, Mikko - outstanding lesson! I really like the M7 thing, but I haven't thought of using them this way. Lots of new things to try. I would LOVE to see you follow up on your "too excited" part on adding contrary motion that you alluded to near the end.
Great lesson, Mikko. very useful stuff.
rosenwinkel is musical first. jazzy second. what he does sounds simple. but its fluid. and beautiful. he meanders in and out of harmonic ideas one should weep over.
I think that the advice to use guide tones (3rds and 7ths) may be of use to beginning improvisers who otherwise might just play roots and 5ths. The advice given to a beginner isn’t necessarily appropriate to an intermediate player, however. An intermediate player should put guide tones aside and concentrate on developing skills in voice leading.
At one point, I thought improvisation meant the ability to throw in a reharm on the fly (that is, I would get to the point where I picked the right color chord for that moment). Working out voice leading for a song seemed like just making something to fall back on in case I couldn’t think of something better. I now see things differently. Working out voice leading for different songs results in skills that are transferable to other songs, and that results in a more coherent solo.
Excellent thank you! Love your videos. Check out Jimmy Raney’s Just Friends from the album Momentum. He illustrates a lot of the points you make here. His three note voice leading using ninths has taught me a whole new level of voice leading. I never fully appreciated all the extensions until I started looking at them for their functions in voice leading.
Great lesson...for my favorite tunes!
Wonderful.Thanks for sharing.
beautiful playing mikko!
Thank you
great guidetone lesson
pls consider doing an 「pensativa」episode
Thanks! Yes that's a tricky one!
When I encounter a melody note that is a guide tone I often play the other guide tone an octave down to give space and harmonic context\ clarity.
That's a good idea
California USA
Voice leading! makes every wrong chord sound right
thinking in consequent numbers(of inherent intevals) is very close to Bach(or Haendel). recently I found sketches of Bach what he used, the so called cifered bass, befor composing he made harmonic practices where certain intervals were isolated, no different than what you did...
Yes I remember that from music school.i think it's called "generalbas" over here.
Hey, what are you plugged into? Great tone! Lots of reverb? Delay?
An Tanglewood amp, Red Repeat analog delay and Boss digital reverb
Mikko Hilden what kind of nylon strings do you use on your Godin? How frequently do you need to replace them? I find on my Godin Multiac that my D string loses tone quickly and becomes a “dead zone”. I’ve had two of these guitars and the same issue with both. Thanks.
@@JGCanning hmm I haven't had that problem 🙄 I usually use D'addario and how often I change depends on how much I'm playing on it.
Ed bickert, Lorne lofsky Lenny breau, they're all Canadian for some reason 🇨🇦lol
😀👌
Ed Bickert said that he paid close attention to Stan Kenton’s orchestrations. I assume that this may have informed his use of voice leading.
Thank you! I couldn't understand the names (english is not my native language) but Lenny Breau's
@@pedromrls6 no problem. Check these players out! They all have a monstrous command of voice leading / comping. And they are all from Canada land ;)
I definitely didn't agree with many things in this video. I don't think Kurt's purpose of this exercise was that of breaking the rules of "not playing the root" or "always play the 3rd and 7th of the chord". Those rules indeed do not apply to solo guitar playing, which is where kurt is applying this exercise. I think the idea behind this exercise is that by dividing each chord into two parts (1,7 and 3,5) you can have a more counterpoint-based approach to comping and a more organ-sound in it, but more importantly you can get to know the tune a lot better than you normally would do, exploring the changes in each section of the instruments. In the clinic Kurt says that many people who think they know a certain standard don't know it at all, and then he explains some of his exercises through which he gets to understand the standards to his level.
I'm confused 😄 I am playing a Gmin with a 13th in the melody. And you're saying you disagree with that? How does that work?
@@Mikkokosmos Ok I just noticed it's a Gmin9 with the 13th on top. My bad, I was too focused on the min9 sound and it sounded different to my ears, I'm used to play just Gmin with the two voices on top (minor 3rd and major6th) having a tritone distance between each other, while with the Gmin9 you have a perfect fifth (A-E) which personally I didn't love. But apart from that I still think the other things I said in the previous concept and I believe there is a kind of a misconception goin on
I mean I liked the thing you said about chord voicings and that kind of stuff. Triads, shell voicings and triad inversions and so forth are not often used by jazz musicians, which too often prefer to use complex-sounding extended chords and do not care about voice leading. Totally agree on that, sometimes the simple sounding chords can be the most interesting and even a root and seventh or a third and fifth can be "enough" for the ear to understand the harmony. But I think the purpose of the whole thing was to get to know the tune better. I mean indeed it can be used in a jazz guitar solo situation, but it doesn't necessarily have to clash with the more "vertical" view of the mainstream jazz musicians. I hope I explained what my point was