I have the Vertex VXD-R70 and I love it. I bought it to use for a volunteer military group here in the Norfolk/Hampton Virginia area for disaster relief. It pretty much covers the entire Peninsula and northern Norfolk. 32 watts out of the duplexer.
Hello im am 13 years old and am putting up a gmrs repeater as well in kentucky a Motorola SLR5700 paired with a commscope antenna and a 40ft tower. Great videos
I just assembled similar repeater. 40W Tait repeater. Getting roughly 26W after duplexer. I have a gp9 commercial tune antenna at 50 ft and I get about 10 MI handheld range.
@@MCTGMRS78009heavily wooded light rolling terrain with scattered iron ore pits and dumps. Located in Northern Minnesota on the Mesabi Iron Range. So area has a long history of open pit iron ore mining. Makes it a bit harder to get good coverage without serious height. I am looking at the possibility of including a receive preamp from Advanced Receiver Research (AR²) to help increase HT coverage.
That looks like a 50W XLT duplexer. I've watched videos of people set up repeaters with two 50W radios, and get about 25W out of them. I like the idea of a 100W radio that gets 50W to the antenna after the duplexer.
Yes... definitely a lot of loss in these flat packs. Usedradios.com said he would adjust the power based on my run of feedline to get it right at 50 watts up top. Good group of people over there.
How about changing your jumpers and your line so you have big and fat on all connections and do not have any adapters to get you into the new cans? Keep up the good work. From San Angelo, Derrick
It's funny you mention that... I just did that a few days ago and was going show it on the next update! GREAT call-out!!! And we will do our best. THANKS for your support!
I am in Austin, we should plan a meetup mid way between us to make some co-op videos :) Just passed my Tech yesterday as well so I will be expanding to HAM (Winlink, SMSGTE, etc.) as well as GMRS. Keep up the great content!!!
heres what i did to my gmrs repeater... i was also running lmr400 and i wanted something better.. i got 7/8 hardline and wow what a difference. its pricey but if you got people using it all the time you may wanna upgrade to maybe 1/2 hardline... and if its a group of you guys then see if they would wanna put up some $$ for it.. i bought everything myself took few years to get my repeater what it is now.. i run a moto msf5000 repeater my problem wasnt the power it was more on my rx side of things.. i do need a better duplexer but that hardline really did help with my rx side of things..
We are considering moving the repeater and because of info like you have provided, we will be hard lining it all the way!!! THANKS for watching and sharing.
As a matter of fact, YES. I spoke to the guys at used-radios.com and they are willing to set one of the 100 watt Motorola's to 50 watts at the stick for you. I highly recommend them if you are in the market.
Great video for troubleshooting power loss thru a 6 cacity from the repeater. "Height is might" they say. I have a push up pole you can borrow when you need one for testing. I believe it is 40",. KI5IQE
HEIGHT IS MIGHT... Love it! We are in the process of erecting a 60 footer now. I will update you as soon as it's done. I've truly appreciate the offer!
Dude, I think you need to swap out that compact cellwave duplexer for a more robust 6 can uhf GMRS tuned duplexer and get the antenna re-tuned to 1:5:1 SWR. Also, make sure your antenna is grounded. I would try to get atleast 25 feet in the antenna using fence posts set in 4 foot hole with concrete. Minor changes and you will get the distance. With DMR you should easily get range and more in-building coverage.
All great info! We are still tweaking here and there and these tips are VERY appreciated!!!! Thanks for watching and taking the time to leave a comment!
You know the repeater is set for 40W...but is it actually putting 40W out? I've not messed with the VXD-R70's but with the Motorola counter parts (XPR8300 and XPR8400 and all other Motorola DMR repeaters) you could open up a program called RDAC (Repeater Diagnostics and Control) and read if the unit was in High VSWR protection or had other issues keeping it from functioning correctly.
Thanks for that info!!! It is kicking 40 out the ass-end but the duplexer seems to be bogging it down quit a bit. The more I look at my antenna height (which is only 45' AGL) and consider the hilly terrain here, I have come to grips that it's doing a pretty damn good job. LOL
@@MCTGMRS78009 another thing I've found, those mobile/notch duplexers have a hard time handling more than about 32W on the input. They will begin to desense which affects the repeater's ability to receive signals while it's in repeat mode.
When buying LMR Cable as in .400 dia. Be aware that it can come in at eithet 50 ohm or 75 ohm which where your radio requires 50 ohm for maximum power to the load with a 50 ohm radio and a 50 ohm antenna so there's no line loss
Only a 2dB loss with the duplexer, not too bad. Prices seem to be about $350 for a duplexer with 1.5 dB loss or $1350 for a duplexer with .6 dB loss. I guess it comes down to how much you want to spend.
One thing you can do is install a 100 watt 8 Cavity duplexer and put a UHF amplifier between the duplexer and the antenna...being careful NOT to overdrive the amp. I tried this and I get a true 50 watt output without loss of from the duplexer
Hmm, the antenna is amplifying Tx and Rx 460MHz going both ways, while a UHF amplifier only boosts and passes EMF going from the GMRS to the antenna in the Tx direction. Thus the Tx amplifier is a one-way device and blocks the Rx from passing thru the amplifier. Or am I missing something here? It sure didn't work for NotARubicon when he tried using a Retevis RT91 Amplifier on the output of his repeater ua-cam.com/video/zQKECxS1tPo/v-deo.html
Everything that I have read is that Duplexers are terribly in-efficient.. Typical loss is 1/2 the inserted power in watts. LMR 400 is a good RF coax to use but solid core hardline is better but way more expensive. Maybe pushing the transmit output through a UHF amplifier would definitely help to get to that 50 watt output that the Over Lord Masters at the FCC has limited GMRS to. I recently acquired a 70 ft Hy-Gain telescoping tower and am putting a mix of Ham and GMRS antennas on it with a rotator and 15 ft mast. I have about 80 ft of 1/2" solid core RF hard line that I will use to hopefully cut down on RF loss. Good Video. Keep up the good work!
@@MCTGMRS78009 I have done radio work commercially for 35 years, engineer level, no longer first class, tired of dealing with radio station owners and have my ham ticket as well as GMRS license, i can give advice that LMR 400 has been found to be very RF noisy in the UHF Spectrum, i prefer 1/2 hard line, or if 100 ft or less Belden 9913 works well. Also nothing less than Polyphaser lightning protection...Good luck and i will be keeping up....
@@MCTGMRS78009 Depends on the manufacturer. Cheaply made "flat packs" or notch duplexers can have 1.5db loss or more. A good quality notch duplexer can have as little as .6db loss.
Great content! Reading/watching as much as I can about GMRS in general (still not licensed - yet). I have watched a lot of content on GMRS. Randy over at NotaRubicon did a video on the Retevis RT97 portable repeater ua-cam.com/video/fqeuP6tPQL8/v-deo.html He did a power output test, and made the comment that the duplexer would steal about half of the power output, especially on cheaper duplexers. So even though that repeater clams 10W output, it only put out about 5W. I see you are not using a cheap duplexer, so I would expect less of a loss, but you will still have some loss associated with the duplexer. If you go to about the 14 minute mark on the video, is where he talks about the power output. Again, I am not an expert, I just watch/read a lot. Hope this helps.
Welcome to the channel and thanks for watching! I was figuring a loss of maybe 10 to 15 watts. We are still digging to figure our of the duplexer might be bad. I will keep y'all updated!
That has crossed my mind as well. After talking to a few folks, they said I would lose more power thru cans versus the thin-pack. I will definitely look into it more tho!!! THANKS FOR THE TIP and for watching!!!
@@MCTGMRS78009 i do…. What’s that little can going to do in reality? Nothing he just proved it. My Sinclair 6 can is much more lossless and represents what little manufacturing Canada has left
I have the Vertex VXD-R70 and I love it. I bought it to use for a volunteer military group here in the Norfolk/Hampton Virginia area for disaster relief. It pretty much covers the entire Peninsula and northern Norfolk. 32 watts out of the duplexer.
I am on Vertex #3 and have ZERO complaints. GREAT products!!!
Hello im am 13 years old and am putting up a gmrs repeater as well in kentucky a Motorola SLR5700 paired with a commscope antenna and a 40ft tower. Great videos
That is awesome! Please keep us posted on your progress and range once you get it up and going!
@@MCTGMRS78009 I appreciate it and will definitely keep you updated on my project.
I just assembled similar repeater. 40W Tait repeater. Getting roughly 26W after duplexer. I have a gp9 commercial tune antenna at 50 ft and I get about 10 MI handheld range.
NICE! What kind of terrain do you have around you?
@@MCTGMRS78009heavily wooded light rolling terrain with scattered iron ore pits and dumps. Located in Northern Minnesota on the Mesabi Iron Range. So area has a long history of open pit iron ore mining. Makes it a bit harder to get good coverage without serious height. I am looking at the possibility of including a receive preamp from Advanced Receiver Research (AR²) to help increase HT coverage.
@@williamschleppegrell2019 wow! I could see how the heavy iron could pose a big problem! Let me know how the pre-amp works out!
That looks like a 50W XLT duplexer. I've watched videos of people set up repeaters with two 50W radios, and get about 25W out of them. I like the idea of a 100W radio that gets 50W to the antenna after the duplexer.
Yes... definitely a lot of loss in these flat packs. Usedradios.com said he would adjust the power based on my run of feedline to get it right at 50 watts up top. Good group of people over there.
How about changing your jumpers and your line so you have big and fat on all connections and do not have any adapters to get you into the new cans?
Keep up the good work. From San Angelo,
Derrick
It's funny you mention that... I just did that a few days ago and was going show it on the next update! GREAT call-out!!! And we will do our best. THANKS for your support!
What coax are you using from radio thru the duplexer to help with loss there ? That be where you lost watts !
Originally we were using 7/8" Heliax. Very low line loss.
I am in Austin, we should plan a meetup mid way between us to make some co-op videos :) Just passed my Tech yesterday as well so I will be expanding to HAM (Winlink, SMSGTE, etc.) as well as GMRS. Keep up the great content!!!
Oh for sure! I am up that way at least once a month for work. Email me anytime: medinacountytexasgmrs@gmail.com
Thanks for the website on used radios. Still learning a lot from your channel. Keep up the great work. Have you done anything with the raspberry pi?
I have not... YET. That maybe be coming once we get this Vertex just right.
AND I appreciate your kind words!
To my understanding... It's 50w ERP - not 50W into the antenna. Am I wrong ?
I think you're 100% correct.
How many watts coming out of the unit it self?
Out of the rear, just shy of 40.
heres what i did to my gmrs repeater... i was also running lmr400 and i wanted something better.. i got 7/8 hardline and wow what a difference. its pricey but if you got people using it all the time you may wanna upgrade to maybe 1/2 hardline... and if its a group of you guys then see if they would wanna put up some $$ for it.. i bought everything myself took few years to get my repeater what it is now.. i run a moto msf5000 repeater my problem wasnt the power it was more on my rx side of things.. i do need a better duplexer but that hardline really did help with my rx side of things..
We are considering moving the repeater and because of info like you have provided, we will be hard lining it all the way!!! THANKS for watching and sharing.
Hopefully everything will work out for you. I do have the advantage of elevation and being wide open now in all directions.
@@robmorgan8392 thank you and I'll keep you posted!
Is there a way to get a gmrs repeater that puts out 50 Watts at the antenna?
As a matter of fact, YES. I spoke to the guys at used-radios.com and they are willing to set one of the 100 watt Motorola's to 50 watts at the stick for you. I highly recommend them if you are in the market.
Great video for troubleshooting power loss thru a 6 cacity from the repeater. "Height is might" they say. I have a push up pole you can borrow when you need one for testing. I believe it is 40",. KI5IQE
HEIGHT IS MIGHT... Love it! We are in the process of erecting a 60 footer now. I will update you as soon as it's done. I've truly appreciate the offer!
Shoot me your frequency and tone if possible and I'll see if I can monitor your repeater frome here.
@@joecraft4409 462.600 +5, 141.3 on both tx & rx. Let me know if you get it 👍
Dude, I think you need to swap out that compact cellwave duplexer for a more robust 6 can uhf GMRS tuned duplexer and get the antenna re-tuned to 1:5:1 SWR. Also, make sure your antenna is grounded. I would try to get atleast 25 feet in the antenna using fence posts set in 4 foot hole with concrete. Minor changes and you will get the distance. With DMR you should easily get range and more in-building coverage.
All great info! We are still tweaking here and there and these tips are VERY appreciated!!!! Thanks for watching and taking the time to leave a comment!
You know the repeater is set for 40W...but is it actually putting 40W out? I've not messed with the VXD-R70's but with the Motorola counter parts (XPR8300 and XPR8400 and all other Motorola DMR repeaters) you could open up a program called RDAC (Repeater Diagnostics and Control) and read if the unit was in High VSWR protection or had other issues keeping it from functioning correctly.
Thanks for that info!!! It is kicking 40 out the ass-end but the duplexer seems to be bogging it down quit a bit. The more I look at my antenna height (which is only 45' AGL) and consider the hilly terrain here, I have come to grips that it's doing a pretty damn good job. LOL
@@MCTGMRS78009 another thing I've found, those mobile/notch duplexers have a hard time handling more than about 32W on the input. They will begin to desense which affects the repeater's ability to receive signals while it's in repeat mode.
@@zapityzapzap Very interesting info! It does make sense.
When buying LMR Cable as in .400 dia. Be aware that it can come in at eithet 50 ohm or 75 ohm which where your radio requires 50 ohm for maximum power to the load with a 50 ohm radio and a 50 ohm antenna so there's no line loss
GREAT INFO! TY!
Only a 2dB loss with the duplexer, not too bad. Prices seem to be about $350 for a duplexer with 1.5 dB loss or $1350 for a duplexer with .6 dB loss. I guess it comes down to how much you want to spend.
You have a VERY valid point! 🤑
One thing you can do is install a 100 watt 8 Cavity duplexer and put a UHF amplifier between the duplexer and the antenna...being careful NOT to overdrive the amp. I tried this and I get a true 50 watt output without loss of from the duplexer
I had thought about that... but think, if anything, we'll go with a higher watt repeater, if needed.
Hmm, the antenna is amplifying Tx and Rx 460MHz going both ways, while a UHF amplifier only boosts and passes EMF going from the GMRS to the antenna in the Tx direction. Thus the Tx amplifier is a one-way device and blocks the Rx from passing thru the amplifier. Or am I missing something here? It sure didn't work for NotARubicon when he tried using a Retevis RT91 Amplifier on the output of his repeater ua-cam.com/video/zQKECxS1tPo/v-deo.html
Everything that I have read is that Duplexers are terribly in-efficient.. Typical loss is 1/2 the inserted power in watts. LMR 400 is a good RF coax to use but solid core hardline is better but way more expensive. Maybe pushing the transmit output through a UHF amplifier would definitely help to get to that 50 watt output that the Over Lord Masters at the FCC has limited GMRS to. I recently acquired a 70 ft Hy-Gain telescoping tower and am putting a mix of Ham and GMRS antennas on it with a rotator and 15 ft mast. I have about 80 ft of 1/2" solid core RF hard line that I will use to hopefully cut down on RF loss. Good Video. Keep up the good work!
Thanks for watching and commenting! We will be upgrading the antenna and coax very soon. Solid core is definitely the way to go, it sounds like!
@@MCTGMRS78009 33% is typical loss for those mobile duplexers
@defconpops4364 thank you for the info! Looking to upgrade soon.
@@MCTGMRS78009 I have done radio work commercially for 35 years, engineer level, no longer first class, tired of dealing with radio station owners and have my ham ticket as well as GMRS license, i can give advice that LMR 400 has been found to be very RF noisy in the UHF Spectrum, i prefer 1/2 hard line, or if 100 ft or less Belden 9913 works well. Also nothing less than Polyphaser lightning protection...Good luck and i will be keeping up....
You shouldn't lose half your power through a duplexer.
See, I thought the same thing and had a ton of folks tell me the flat-packs were bad about that. Gunna keep digging. THANKS for the info!
@@MCTGMRS78009 Depends on the manufacturer. Cheaply made "flat packs" or notch duplexers can have 1.5db loss or more. A good quality notch duplexer can have as little as .6db loss.
@@jcflyer6213 We are going to be upgrading it soon. Any brand that you recommend?
Great content! Reading/watching as much as I can about GMRS in general (still not licensed - yet). I have watched a lot of content on GMRS. Randy over at NotaRubicon did a video on the Retevis RT97 portable repeater ua-cam.com/video/fqeuP6tPQL8/v-deo.html He did a power output test, and made the comment that the duplexer would steal about half of the power output, especially on cheaper duplexers. So even though that repeater clams 10W output, it only put out about 5W. I see you are not using a cheap duplexer, so I would expect less of a loss, but you will still have some loss associated with the duplexer. If you go to about the 14 minute mark on the video, is where he talks about the power output.
Again, I am not an expert, I just watch/read a lot. Hope this helps.
Welcome to the channel and thanks for watching! I was figuring a loss of maybe 10 to 15 watts. We are still digging to figure our of the duplexer might be bad. I will keep y'all updated!
I really believe your duplexer is your downfall you should shop around and try to find a 6 canned duplexer
That has crossed my mind as well. After talking to a few folks, they said I would lose more power thru cans versus the thin-pack. I will definitely look into it more tho!!! THANKS FOR THE TIP and for watching!!!
or use a real duplexer
you dont put walmart optics on a good rifle and you dont put a mobile chinese duplexer on a rack mount repeater.
Do you think all black thin-packs are cheap Chinese made units?
@@MCTGMRS78009 i do…. What’s that little can going to do in reality? Nothing he just proved it. My Sinclair 6 can is much more lossless and represents what little manufacturing Canada has left