Puerto Rico was published 2002, Twilight Imperium 3e which first used the Strat cards was published 2005, so it was PR that inspired TI's Strat cards, not the other way around.
Christian Peterson, the designer of twilight imperium, has gone on record that he wanted to combine some elements from successful eurogames into the mechanics and so borrowed the strategy cards concept from puerto rico, as it was one of the most popular games on Board game geek at the time (puerto rico is still one of the best games ever made). Watch shut up and sit down's documentary on the making of twilight imperium, he mentions it there as well.
@@LegendaryTactics I believe Citadels was the first game that had the Role selection type mechanic that the others all borrowed and developed. These fashions in game design come & stick around usually expanding the design space, crushing my soul in the case of roll & writes
@@jonathanpickles2946 Citadels had the "privilege drafting" part of role selection, but not the "role following" part that Puerto Rico popularised(which nowadays doesn't always come with privilege or drafting, ever since Race for the Galaxy and Glory to Rome)
I really think Exodus: Proxima Centauri should be in this list. There are so many points of convergence, including area control, Space combat, tech development and even the political and diplomatic bits from T.I. That's an often overlooked game.
Star Trek Ascendancy is a game I would think of on the level of TI4. Space, different species, you need to control planets, build up your force ... Ok there is no galactic center. But epic in size, has all the four Xes.
I second this recommendation! It plays about an hour per player and you can add as many players as they have factions in the game. So far it’s; Federation, Klingon, Romulan (all included in base game), Ferengi, Cardassian, Vulcan, Andorian, Dominion War, and Breen. Also; a Borg faction is available that adds a non-player race to the game to give all players a common enemy to have to contend with. It even allows for solitaire play! It is an excellent 4x game and is much more accessible than TI or even Eclipse, at least IMHO.
It's also more varied than Eclipse when it comes to approaches towards winning the game. It might be a personal thing, but to me Eclipse feels vastly different from TI because winning always heavily involves punching other people's faces. (apart from these obelisks or whatever they're called... But they only work on rare cases) Twilight Imperium on the other hand has such awesome objectives with so much variation. Blowing things up almost never is the end goal and full out conflict almost never incentivized. Eclipse on the other hand... Oh boy... How much I dislike that approach. In Star Trek Ascendancy you have... Well... Ascendancy. You can work towards your victory in different ways. In that regard it feels MUCH more like TI than Eclipse could ever hope to with it's "blow up fleets for VP tokens"-approach.
Exodus: Proxima Centauri is "Twilight Imperium Lite" for me, especially with the "Edge of Extinction" expansion. The Dice Tower crew had Sam Healey try different games (including Eclipse), claiming each one was "T.I. Lite", but the only one that actually hit the mark for Sam was Exodus.
Tiny epic kingdoms is a mini version of twilight imperium. Variable player powers or technology, Empire management, exploration elements with the mini expansions and something akin to strategy cards for action selection. All this in an easily transportable box and doors not take a day to play.
One underrated game you didn't mention is Runewars (2010). 4 different races with very different gameplay. You have the card system like in TI but it's individual for each play. Rounds are broken up into 4 turns (Spring, Summer, Autumn, Winter) with some cool mechanics like armies being able to cross lakes during Winter but not any other season.
@@LegendaryTactics STFC is a enjoyable 2 player game but is very different than STA. STA is Star Trek on a grand scale. Each player feels like they are a specific faction and it has great negotiations and can be played in about half the time of TI4.
Fleet Captains really captures the feeling of playing through a season of a Trek series, with each turn being like an episode. It is a fantastic game and I cannot play it enough. However; it is not a 4x game. You do explore, but while you can fight opponents, eXtermination is never the goal. There is also not really any eXpansion as you do have the option to claim ownership of sectors, but that just grants victory points if you have drawn a mission card that has that as a goal. There is no tech tree/development at all, and there are no resources to eXploit. Star Trek Ascendancy has all 4 of the X’s.
No love for the original Dune? With the possible exception of SW Rebellion, Dune is the most TI-like game there is. Edit: Also remembered Root. While much shorter than TI, I find it very close in terms of asymmetrical factions and lots of negotiation.
Civilization a new Dawn does have exploration through its expansion Terra Incognita, which significantly alters gameplay of the base game. Cool video idea!
Thank you for the mention of Rogue Angels :) I am happy to hear it left such a good impression on you. I am still working hard on turning this fever dream into reality ;) Great video. Best regards Emil
@@LegendaryTactics My first game Burning Suns (4X strategy) was somewhat inspired by TI. Though the initial ideas and concepts came from Sins of a Solar Empire (computer game). So Rogue Angels has no doubt some lore and legacy from back then ;) Thanks, I will try to make it impossible to miss, once I finally is able to launch it again. Have a great day. :)
I was surprised that you didn't give a nod to Stellar Conquest (1975), one of the first, if not the first 4x sci-fi board game. Also, an honorable mention should go to TSR's Star Probe (1975)/Star Empires: game of Galactic Conquest (1977). Let's see how many claim to have played at least one turn of Star Empires. Finally, how could we forget the influence of Game Designer's Workshop and it's many sci-fi space combat games. I played the original Triplanetary to death and still have my original copy.
I have not played it yet but actually bought Alien Artifacts on its premise of being a very condensed 4X game. One of those days it is going to be put to the test.
There are so many space 2/3/4X games reminding me of Twilight Imperium. Exodus, Galactic Era, Silver River, Fractal Beyond the Void, Nexum Galaxy, Xia, Fleets the Pleiad Conflict, Empires of the Void 1 & 2, The Warp, Syndicate, A Handful of Stars, Pulsar 2849, Hegemonic, Warpgate, Voidfall, Arcs, Blueshift, Star Wars Outer Rim, Exploration, Burning Suns, Star Trek Federation, Empire of the Stars, Kepler 3042 and many more than that. And the upcoming Andromedas Edge, Brink, Eve, Stellaris, Beyond the Event Horizon and Hyperspace.
I thought the list was really well thought out. Thanks for contributing. I also think Clash is a great choice. I eagerly await Merchants and Marauders getting the monumental treatment.
Struggle of Empires captures most of what Twilight Imperium does in about 3 hours. It is set in 1700 to 1800 and does everything that TI does except for the Explore aspect even though TI doesn't really explore until you get the POK expansion. Struggle of Empires! Great game!
I'm a big fan of Hegemonic. It's a 4x game of humanity expanding into and colonizing a new galaxy. It's a more 'euro' approach to things than TI, but it has a charm all its own. The player boards hold your pieces in little recessed pockets, and the pieces look fantastic. Industrial complexes are gian cubes, Political embassies are domes, and Military outposts are pyramids that can stack. Each type of building has strengths and weaknesses, and can attack either of the others (or another player's same-type building) based on the cards you choose to use during each of the three action rounds each game Turn. The game also features a rather nice "ticking clock" in that there's a pile of sector tiles, and when the pool runs out the game is over. The interesting thing is that scoring takes place at the end of every game Turn, and points are awarded for majority and minority control of each galaxy board, plus the galactic core. So you could turtle and fill up your 'home' sector but you'd be losing out on the points for not expanding into new areas. Even just being present gets you a point, so no reason not to expand. Add in technology cards that serve as both boosts to your capabilities, AND as cards that assist in combat, and you have a fun, think-y little strategy game that plays in about a third of the time of TI.
Thoughts on Scythe: The game compares less to TI in exploitation of resources, and more on the objective-scoring side, with each faction trying simultaneously to achieve unique goals decided by their random objectives, which also having that same feeling of aversion to combat unless needed. Both games have big, flashy plastic that begs to start fighting, but often fighting is a last resort to diplomacy, as fighting drains everyone’s resources quite a bit.
4:53 But what about the 2010 version of Sid Meier's Civilization or A Clash of Cultures? Both are more of "4X" Civilization games, which would be more similar - especially in length - to Twilight Imperium, than A New Dawn.
I'm glad you mentioned Scythe as the first time I played it, it felt like a compacted TI experience. Not in the mechanics of the game, but in the feel of it being a material and military race against the other forces where you can't go all out aggressive, but need to pick just a few key battles to win before the game end conditions will strike. The fact that the control of the central hex can be the key to victory also brings a commonality to the two games. Another good civ light game to look at is Tempus which is an excellent example of Martin Wallace design and underrated by people who wanted a civ large rather than a civ small experience.
My 'go to' space conquest game is Star Trek Ascendancy. Multiple races, all with their own unique capabilities, technologies, and some even have special victory conditions. Lots of miniatures, and the universe sets up differently every game, enhancing re-playability. Watch out for the Ferengi however. They are sneaky little capitalists and can win through trade alone! Qapla'!
I wish there would be a space game in the style of Nexus Ops, with different ships doing different things and a weekday playtime. A close one in terms of production that missed the mark in terms of rules clarity was Mothership: tabletop combat. This being said I think he was on to something.
Probably Space Empires 4X, Eclipse, Exodus Proxima Centauri and Hegemonic. Some might find Eclipse too euro. Not Xia, because that's a sandbox style space sim. That game has way more in common with Merchants and Marauders.
Loved the original 1980's Cosmic Encounter and we played it all the expansions at once ! My favorite alien was The Sniveller. He had the POWER TO WHINE. If he was lacking some resource, say no Attack Number cards or none higher than certain number, most tokens in the warp, etc. he could whine (must be a truthful statement) , "I don't have resource X. Will someone give me resource X? One player may give The Sniveller said resource which MUST be used, but if no one volunteers ALL PLAYERS MUST discard the requested resource. MWAH HA HA HA!
Such fun. My favourite for my opponent was the Butler. He had to do our bidding. It would be funny to have the Sniveller and the Butler in the same game.
For me it should mention a game that I like even more than TI - Runewars. Lose some politics but have more immersion and epicness. In Runewars I have a feeling that I am a general and part of the story being told.
@@LegendaryTactics exactly! Everything better for 2-4 except the “political-alliance/negociation” part. TI have a very deep lore that is not very immersive during play. For me both games are over the top but for those reasons still prefer Runewars.
All I know about it what I'm reading on the Geek. The mechanic with dark and light side sounds really cool. The table looks to be quite full of components in the images. Good game?
@@LegendaryTactics I like it, but I am biased, because I'm the designer. 😅 You will find some reviews in review section of the forums on BGG for Galactic Era. There are also some review videos.
There is space and there is combat (not dice based), resource and production. No diplomacy - well, not officially. So yes, I would rate it as a similar game to TI. Same goes for the predecessor, Starcraft the board game.
I'm surprised Root didn't make an appearance. They are frequently compared to each other on both games' respective podcasts, Woodland War Machine & Space Cats Peace Turtles, the latter of which actually used to run a Root tournament because there's so much overlap between the fan-bases. Root has diplomacy, battling and posturing (though battles are more frequent than TI4) asymmetry between players (way more than TI4), a common pool of teach upgrades and both have similar feels even if the themes are totally different. The glaring differences are of course present like agendas, strategy cards and a vast assortment of unit types being absent in Root but I suspect players who enjoy either game will probably enjoy the other. Root is mush shorter and more geared at asymmetry while TI4 is more epic and though there is more overlap of player actions, there's way more stuff happening to keep track of.
To me, Root feels completely different. I appreciate your comparisons, but I feel like there are more differences than similarities. Play time, theme, types of asymmetry, heaviness, unit types, the way cards are used, the speed of play, and even the board. I do wholeheartedly agree that both games are incredible and there's a good chance that if you like the richness of one, you'll also appreciate the other.
Hegemony and Galactic Empires are both eclipse like attempts to make ti4 in under 2 hours. Neither are good but attempts. Also surprised axis and allies wasn't on here as ti started out as them in space (combat and production systems)
@@LegendaryTactics Have not had a chance to play it yet, but I plan to soon. It looks like it shares the same mechanics except you have an alignment factor where you flip from Benevolent (i.e. Explore, Expand, but no Exploit and Exterminate) making peace and developing other civilizations, then to Evil where you go full 4x. Game lasts for eight rounds, good for four, evil the other four. It also has a solo mode, which I hope means I can get a lot more game play out of it.
I would add Forbidden Stars to the mix, sadly out of print. But before the new Eclipse version came around I thought of it as the TI Lite experience, still feels more epic than Eclipse. Clash of Cultures is actually Civilization the boardgame haha it implemented the videogame better thatn the licensed product. Not a TI experience though.
TI4 is a great game but I wished it was pushing (perhaps personal/secret objectives) to have more combats. it is much more about the threats of a war than the combats themselves... which is a bit of a pity since all the military tech tree became a bit "pointless" in my opinion (you combat so little that you almost do not see the benefits of all those power ups)
I just think the title was missleading. I expected to get good suggestion of games that actually are like TI not that just one specific aspect reminds you of TI. Good video but it really was not what the title suggested.
Dune and Twilight Imperium share some intellectual property in the form of licensed game mechanics (from Dune to TI). Check the Dune game Wikipedia page.
@@LegendaryTactics We just got it 2 weeks ago (even though it's out of print, as so many people like to point out), and we played 5x times already (2, 3 and 4 players) and it really is AMAZING as others have claimed, I'm glad I pulled the trigger on this one, it was legit worth it. It's easy to understand the rules, people got into the mechanics very quickly and easily, it's not that complicated but there is a lot going on, decisions in this game are really important, it is VERY strategic, THE ORDER in which you do your 4 actions is kind of crucial. It reminds me of Ankh, with the action selection, but you also "program" these actions in order and locations, cause people can put actions on top of your actions and affect your turns. And the combat, my god, I wish more games did combat like this. It makes the combat in other games like Scythe, Ankh and Blood Rage, feeling basic and dull in comparison. Luck is not really a factor, the players determine a lot of it and affect each other, it's engaging and the games makes everyone think really hard trying to decide what to do and in which order and how to engage in combat.. it's good, give it a shot if you ever get the chance. I don't recommend playing 4 players for your first try, and DO NOT USE the "recommended tutorial" map setup for your first game found in the rules, just use the normal setup which is a modular setup and everyone makes the map together, it's so much better.
The games on this list NOT LIKE TI4: Puerto Rico Cosmic Encounter Scythe Civilization: New Dawn Cry Havoc Rebellion Diplomacy Clash of Cultures (Although the closest on this list)
Puerto Rico was published 2002, Twilight Imperium 3e which first used the Strat cards was published 2005, so it was PR that inspired TI's Strat cards, not the other way around.
Cool. I didn't realize that it wasn't until 3e that the strat cards came along. Thanks for adding that.
Christian Peterson, the designer of twilight imperium, has gone on record that he wanted to combine some elements from successful eurogames into the mechanics and so borrowed the strategy cards concept from puerto rico, as it was one of the most popular games on Board game geek at the time (puerto rico is still one of the best games ever made).
Watch shut up and sit down's documentary on the making of twilight imperium, he mentions it there as well.
@@LegendaryTactics I believe Citadels was the first game that had the Role selection type mechanic that the others all borrowed and developed. These fashions in game design come & stick around usually expanding the design space, crushing my soul in the case of roll & writes
@@jonathanpickles2946 Citadels had the "privilege drafting" part of role selection, but not the "role following" part that Puerto Rico popularised(which nowadays doesn't always come with privilege or drafting, ever since Race for the Galaxy and Glory to Rome)
I feel one that scratches the Ti4 itch is Star trek Ascendancy. It's asymptomatic, with diplomatic relations, exploration and combat
I really think Exodus: Proxima Centauri should be in this list. There are so many points of convergence, including area control, Space combat, tech development and even the political and diplomatic bits from T.I. That's an often overlooked game.
is EPC "significantly" easier to bring to the table than TI4?
Since it operated well at lower player counts, and has a solo mode, it is much easier to bring to the table.
Much more of a TI light than Eclipse...
@@umbette Yes because you can actually play it in a single sitting.
The politics in exodus are all about..what is the best choice for Everyone...plus the tech is extremely predictable if you play with the same players
Exodus was the first game I thought of
A very good video. I love genre comparison videos. Your descriptions of the primary focus of each game is excellent.
I'm glad you enjoyed it. I actually thought I'd get a lot more criticism for my comparisons than I have tbh.
Star Trek Ascendancy is a game I would think of on the level of TI4.
Space, different species, you need to control planets, build up your force ...
Ok there is no galactic center. But epic in size, has all the four Xes.
Sounds like one that's worth trying.
I second this recommendation! It plays about an hour per player and you can add as many players as they have factions in the game. So far it’s; Federation, Klingon, Romulan (all included in base game), Ferengi, Cardassian, Vulcan, Andorian, Dominion War, and Breen. Also; a Borg faction is available that adds a non-player race to the game to give all players a common enemy to have to contend with. It even allows for solitaire play! It is an excellent 4x game and is much more accessible than TI or even Eclipse, at least IMHO.
@@LegendaryTactics It is. Especially if the players also need to work together because somebody insisted to use the Borg expansion. ;-)
It's also more varied than Eclipse when it comes to approaches towards winning the game.
It might be a personal thing, but to me Eclipse feels vastly different from TI because winning always heavily involves punching other people's faces. (apart from these obelisks or whatever they're called... But they only work on rare cases)
Twilight Imperium on the other hand has such awesome objectives with so much variation. Blowing things up almost never is the end goal and full out conflict almost never incentivized. Eclipse on the other hand... Oh boy... How much I dislike that approach.
In Star Trek Ascendancy you have... Well... Ascendancy. You can work towards your victory in different ways. In that regard it feels MUCH more like TI than Eclipse could ever hope to with it's "blow up fleets for VP tokens"-approach.
Exodus: Proxima Centauri is "Twilight Imperium Lite" for me, especially with the "Edge of Extinction" expansion. The Dice Tower crew had Sam Healey try different games (including Eclipse), claiming each one was "T.I. Lite", but the only one that actually hit the mark for Sam was Exodus.
I always find that I always agree with Zee, but not always with Sam and Tom.
I looked at Proxima Centauri. It looked cool and was planning on getting it until I saw the painful process of expansion.
This video (and comments) cost me a lot of money. Such an informative video! Relating specific mechanics to individual games is fantastic!
If you're like me, there are very few board game purchases you ever regret.
Tiny epic kingdoms is a mini version of twilight imperium. Variable player powers or technology, Empire management, exploration elements with the mini expansions and something akin to strategy cards for action selection. All this in an easily transportable box and doors not take a day to play.
YES! I was really close to including it, but I just haven't played it enough.
One underrated game you didn't mention is Runewars (2010). 4 different races with very different gameplay. You have the card system like in TI but it's individual for each play. Rounds are broken up into 4 turns (Spring, Summer, Autumn, Winter) with some cool mechanics like armies being able to cross lakes during Winter but not any other season.
I'd add Star Trek Ascendancy to this list.
What about Star Trek Fleet Captains?
@@LegendaryTactics STFC is a enjoyable 2 player game but is very different than STA. STA is Star Trek on a grand scale. Each player feels like they are a specific faction and it has great negotiations and can be played in about half the time of TI4.
Fleet Captains really captures the feeling of playing through a season of a Trek series, with each turn being like an episode. It is a fantastic game and I cannot play it enough. However; it is not a 4x game. You do explore, but while you can fight opponents, eXtermination is never the goal. There is also not really any eXpansion as you do have the option to claim ownership of sectors, but that just grants victory points if you have drawn a mission card that has that as a goal. There is no tech tree/development at all, and there are no resources to eXploit. Star Trek Ascendancy has all 4 of the X’s.
No love for the original Dune? With the possible exception of SW Rebellion, Dune is the most TI-like game there is.
Edit: Also remembered Root. While much shorter than TI, I find it very close in terms of asymmetrical factions and lots of negotiation.
I think there's a good case for Dune. I love Root a lot, but they just feel so different to me. There are a lot of people who agree with you though.
TI reminds me of this other game…I think it’s called Risk?
Please set your scarcasm sensors to “stun”.
Ha. Not even a little. It was a risk just writing that comment!
Civilization a new Dawn does have exploration through its expansion Terra Incognita, which significantly alters gameplay of the base game. Cool video idea!
Thank you for the mention of Rogue Angels :) I am happy to hear it left such a good impression on you.
I am still working hard on turning this fever dream into reality ;)
Great video.
Best regards Emil
No problem Emil. I forgot to ask you if T. I. influenced you in any way? I'm looking forward to your Kickstarter getting back up.
@@LegendaryTactics My first game Burning Suns (4X strategy) was somewhat inspired by TI. Though the initial ideas and concepts came from Sins of a Solar Empire (computer game). So Rogue Angels has no doubt some lore and legacy from back then ;)
Thanks, I will try to make it impossible to miss, once I finally is able to launch it again. Have a great day. :)
I was surprised that you didn't give a nod to Stellar Conquest (1975), one of the first, if not the first 4x sci-fi board game. Also, an honorable mention should go to TSR's Star Probe (1975)/Star Empires: game of Galactic Conquest (1977). Let's see how many claim to have played at least one turn of Star Empires. Finally, how could we forget the influence of Game Designer's Workshop and it's many sci-fi space combat games. I played the original Triplanetary to death and still have my original copy.
That would have been a great connection. Thanks for adding it here at least.
I have not played it yet but actually bought Alien Artifacts on its premise of being a very condensed 4X game.
One of those days it is going to be put to the test.
It's well worth the time sink.
Can I suggest Age of Galaxy, Eclipse & TI4 in Tiny Epic format, so good
The to-play list keeps growing.
Another one, which gives me the overall Ti4 feel (with a small bit of "Master of Orion"-touch) is the relatively unknown "The Silver River".
Thank you for mentioning it. I'll be checking that one out!
There are so many space 2/3/4X games reminding me of Twilight Imperium. Exodus, Galactic Era, Silver River, Fractal Beyond the Void, Nexum Galaxy, Xia, Fleets the Pleiad Conflict, Empires of the Void 1 & 2, The Warp, Syndicate, A Handful of Stars, Pulsar 2849, Hegemonic, Warpgate, Voidfall, Arcs, Blueshift, Star Wars Outer Rim, Exploration, Burning Suns, Star Trek Federation, Empire of the Stars, Kepler 3042 and many more than that. And the upcoming Andromedas Edge, Brink, Eve, Stellaris, Beyond the Event Horizon and Hyperspace.
I thought the list was really well thought out. Thanks for contributing. I also think Clash is a great choice. I eagerly await Merchants and Marauders getting the monumental treatment.
Thanks for checking it out. Do you know when that might happen to Merchants?
Great Video, The Settlers of Catan seems similar in terms of negotiation and map control as well.
TI3 "borrowed" from Puerto Rico (not the other way around). Also, New Frontiers is a "reboot" of Puerto Rico, now in space.
Yes, this makes sense. Now it feels as if the strategy cards have been around from the start.
Struggle of Empires captures most of what Twilight Imperium does in about 3 hours. It is set in 1700 to 1800 and does everything that TI does except for the Explore aspect even though TI doesn't really explore until you get the POK expansion. Struggle of Empires! Great game!
I'm a big fan of Hegemonic. It's a 4x game of humanity expanding into and colonizing a new galaxy. It's a more 'euro' approach to things than TI, but it has a charm all its own. The player boards hold your pieces in little recessed pockets, and the pieces look fantastic. Industrial complexes are gian cubes, Political embassies are domes, and Military outposts are pyramids that can stack.
Each type of building has strengths and weaknesses, and can attack either of the others (or another player's same-type building) based on the cards you choose to use during each of the three action rounds each game Turn. The game also features a rather nice "ticking clock" in that there's a pile of sector tiles, and when the pool runs out the game is over.
The interesting thing is that scoring takes place at the end of every game Turn, and points are awarded for majority and minority control of each galaxy board, plus the galactic core. So you could turtle and fill up your 'home' sector but you'd be losing out on the points for not expanding into new areas. Even just being present gets you a point, so no reason not to expand.
Add in technology cards that serve as both boosts to your capabilities, AND as cards that assist in combat, and you have a fun, think-y little strategy game that plays in about a third of the time of TI.
TI:3 took the strategy cards mechanics from Puerto Rico, Christian Petersen wrote this in the editor notes of TI:3.
That makes sense. I love that mechanic.
Thoughts on Scythe: The game compares less to TI in exploitation of resources, and more on the objective-scoring side, with each faction trying simultaneously to achieve unique goals decided by their random objectives, which also having that same feeling of aversion to combat unless needed. Both games have big, flashy plastic that begs to start fighting, but often fighting is a last resort to diplomacy, as fighting drains everyone’s resources quite a bit.
4:53 But what about the 2010 version of Sid Meier's Civilization or A Clash of Cultures? Both are more of "4X" Civilization games, which would be more similar - especially in length - to Twilight Imperium, than A New Dawn.
Yes! Clash of Cultures was my #10. Definitely a much closer comparison.
Between TI4 and Eclipse, there is Star Trek Ascendancy. It even has an original way it handles star systems.
A number of people have drawn parallels to Ascendancy. It sounds worthy.
I'm glad you mentioned Scythe as the first time I played it, it felt like a compacted TI experience. Not in the mechanics of the game, but in the feel of it being a material and military race against the other forces where you can't go all out aggressive, but need to pick just a few key battles to win before the game end conditions will strike. The fact that the control of the central hex can be the key to victory also brings a commonality to the two games.
Another good civ light game to look at is Tempus which is an excellent example of Martin Wallace design and underrated by people who wanted a civ large rather than a civ small experience.
Sounds fun.
My 'go to' space conquest game is Star Trek Ascendancy. Multiple races, all with their own unique capabilities, technologies, and some even have special victory conditions. Lots of miniatures, and the universe sets up differently every game, enhancing re-playability. Watch out for the Ferengi however. They are sneaky little capitalists and can win through trade alone! Qapla'!
That one made my short list for this video.
We sold back TI4 and much prefer Eclipse because it is MUCH SHORTER so we can play it much more often!
I (Nato) totally agree! Flash may not, though
What about exodus Proxima Centauri?
I haven't heard of this one. What parts remind you of T. I.?
Little plastic ships, hexagons, tech, and dice combat.
@@LegendaryTactics Everything, it literally is TI lite. Every element you mentioned is in PC
Absolutely love Space Empires 4X with its expansions. You can play the game as light as you want or add layered rules for a more complex experience
Haven't checked in a while, is there a conversion kit to get 3rd to 4th edition yet? Otherwise I'll stick with my older edition then.
There is not. Alas alack.
I would add RuneWars to this lists. Fantasy themed, same designer, also FFG. Has a lot of similarities as well.
I wonder if there was a direct line of inspiration there?
Indeed. RuneWars has to be in such a list.
I was wondering if someone would mention Rune Wars! One of my top 3 favorite games.
great list and also love Star Wars rebellion and I just ordered the expansion! I havnt played TI4 yet but really want to someday, as well as Eclipse
You should! Eclipse would be a good one to try first.
I wish there would be a space game in the style of Nexus Ops, with different ships doing different things and a weekday playtime. A close one in terms of production that missed the mark in terms of rules clarity was Mothership: tabletop combat. This being said I think he was on to something.
Probably Space Empires 4X, Eclipse, Exodus Proxima Centauri and Hegemonic. Some might find Eclipse too euro. Not Xia, because that's a sandbox style space sim. That game has way more in common with Merchants and Marauders.
Interesting! I haven't tried the last two, but they seem interesting. Thanks for bringing them to our attention!
Loved the original 1980's Cosmic Encounter and we played it all the expansions at once ! My favorite alien was The Sniveller. He had the POWER TO WHINE. If he was lacking some resource, say no Attack Number cards or none higher than certain number, most tokens in the warp, etc. he could whine (must be a truthful statement) , "I don't have resource X. Will someone give me resource X? One player may give The Sniveller said resource which MUST be used, but if no one volunteers ALL PLAYERS MUST discard the requested resource. MWAH HA HA HA!
Such fun. My favourite for my opponent was the Butler. He had to do our bidding. It would be funny to have the Sniveller and the Butler in the same game.
@@LegendaryTactics I don't think that Zee has or would ever play TI.
With TI4 at the top of the chain, I see Eclipse and Xia: legends of a drift system to be the top three 4x space experiences…
XIA does indeed seem to be a strong comparison.
Twilight Imperium looks really fun and I found one on the shelf of a local store. But it costs $200!
I'm surprised you did not mention Xia: Legends of a Drift System
I'm struggling to find a similarity between the two games, other than the setting ofc - am I missing something?
I definitely considered it. I'd put it in the top 15 for sure
um, excuse me, I believe it should be "It's not just a board game, it's a lifestyle..."
Here here.
Not a great 1 to 1 comparison, but John Company 2e for negotiations. No secret TI was influential on Cole
Haven't tried it. I'll have to give it a look.
I can not imagine 4x world without Heroes of Land Air & Sea. Absolute must if you can't play TI4 on regular basis. Gamelyn games !
I've been meaning to try it. Thanks for the nudge.
Cosmic Encounters came out in 1977, so I think it beat Twilight Imperium by 20 years to the punch. ;)
Both great games for sure.
For me it should mention a game that I like even more than TI - Runewars. Lose some politics but have more immersion and epicness. In Runewars I have a feeling that I am a general and part of the story being told.
What is this thing you speak of? A game better than T. I.4?
@@LegendaryTactics exactly! Everything better for 2-4 except the “political-alliance/negociation” part. TI have a very deep lore that is not very immersive during play. For me both games are over the top but for those reasons still prefer Runewars.
Since you asked, what do you think about Galactic Era?
All I know about it what I'm reading on the Geek. The mechanic with dark and light side sounds really cool. The table looks to be quite full of components in the images. Good game?
@@LegendaryTactics I like it, but I am biased, because I'm the designer. 😅 You will find some reviews in review section of the forums on BGG for Galactic Era. There are also some review videos.
How does TI4 compare to Forbidden Stars?
I haven't played it, so I hope someone else can weigh in on this.
There is space and there is combat (not dice based), resource and production. No diplomacy - well, not officially. So yes, I would rate it as a similar game to TI. Same goes for the predecessor, Starcraft the board game.
I'm surprised Root didn't make an appearance. They are frequently compared to each other on both games' respective podcasts, Woodland War Machine & Space Cats Peace Turtles, the latter of which actually used to run a Root tournament because there's so much overlap between the fan-bases.
Root has diplomacy, battling and posturing (though battles are more frequent than TI4) asymmetry between players (way more than TI4), a common pool of teach upgrades and both have similar feels even if the themes are totally different.
The glaring differences are of course present like agendas, strategy cards and a vast assortment of unit types being absent in Root but I suspect players who enjoy either game will probably enjoy the other. Root is mush shorter and more geared at asymmetry while TI4 is more epic and though there is more overlap of player actions, there's way more stuff happening to keep track of.
To me, Root feels completely different. I appreciate your comparisons, but I feel like there are more differences than similarities. Play time, theme, types of asymmetry, heaviness, unit types, the way cards are used, the speed of play, and even the board. I do wholeheartedly agree that both games are incredible and there's a good chance that if you like the richness of one, you'll also appreciate the other.
All these are great and I also like Star Trek Ascendancy.
There is no substitute. Like it or not, there is no other game that does what TI do as well as TI does it.
100% true
Which game is shorest of this?
Probably Cosmic Encounter.
Hegemony and Galactic Empires are both eclipse like attempts to make ti4 in under 2 hours. Neither are good but attempts. Also surprised axis and allies wasn't on here as ti started out as them in space (combat and production systems)
Interesting comparison. I hadn't really thought of Axis and Allies being similar. There are some points of connection though.
Exodus Proxima Centari is an excellent TI4-Light game.
It's getting a ton of love in the comments. Thanks for tossing your 3 cents into the mix.
The closest game I've played to TI4 is Star Trek Ascendancy, it ticks all the same boxes.
Great pick.
Dune the war game is missed from this list
Did you consider Galactic Era?
I'm afraid I did not! But now that I look it up, I see that I should have.
Does it share some of the same mechanics or primarily the theme?
@@LegendaryTactics Have not had a chance to play it yet, but I plan to soon. It looks like it shares the same mechanics except you have an alignment factor where you flip from Benevolent (i.e. Explore, Expand, but no Exploit and Exterminate) making peace and developing other civilizations, then to Evil where you go full 4x. Game lasts for eight rounds, good for four, evil the other four. It also has a solo mode, which I hope means I can get a lot more game play out of it.
Starcraft 2 - best command system, less random with small card decks - with out dices, etc.
Cry Havoc was such a great game. I really hated that it came and went so fast.
Game of thrones for the use of command points.
I love that game. Its digital implementation is really good.
Just one small observation: this video was about playing TI4, so it felt odd that all but one shot of game play showed TI3.
Yeah, I only have ti3 for the filming. I should head over to my friend's house and see if he'd let me shoot his copy of ti4.
Yeah, but the game aspects still holds true for the older TI as well
@@sloikalamos fair enough
You should look at empires of the void 2 and Heroes of land air and sea
Looks awesome. Will Do.
SpaceCorp by GMT is another fun exploration/race game
There are no games that are like TI4.
I would add Forbidden Stars to the mix, sadly out of print.
But before the new Eclipse version came around I thought of it as the TI Lite experience, still feels more epic than Eclipse.
Clash of Cultures is actually Civilization the boardgame haha it implemented the videogame better thatn the licensed product. Not a TI experience though.
Sweet.
Runewars is very much like Twilight Imperium only set in fantasy.
I'm hearing that one quite a bit. Will definitely have to give it a try.
Eclipse 2nd Edition?
For sure. Great game. Probably the best game on this list.
Game of Thrones 2nd edition is very close to TI considering the game systems and complexity.
I love that game. It just about made the list.
Same game designer. So pretty much the same game. Only a lite version. Have played both games over 10 times. Imo the best board games out there.
TI4 is a great game but I wished it was pushing (perhaps personal/secret objectives) to have more combats.
it is much more about the threats of a war than the combats themselves... which is a bit of a pity since all the military tech tree became a bit "pointless" in my opinion (you combat so little that you almost do not see the benefits of all those power ups)
If you prefer a combat-heavier game, I think you can easily facilitate this with your map build.
I disagree with the very first sentence, and I love TI. Not everyone has the brainpower or the interest to play it.
Ha. Perhaps I should say "Every board gamer with above average intellect and focus needs to play TI4"
I just think the title was missleading.
I expected to get good suggestion of games that actually are like TI not that just one specific aspect reminds you of TI.
Good video but it really was not what the title suggested.
Ah, sorry about that. There really aren't any games that do it all like TI though!
@@LegendaryTactics I hope I get to play my copy before I die. ;)
How about Dune? It's also a sci fi game and has very asymmetric factions.
Dune and Twilight Imperium share some intellectual property in the form of licensed game mechanics (from Dune to TI). Check the Dune game Wikipedia page.
It seems like you utterly and completely forgot about FORBIDDEN STARS.
I haven't tried it. But now that a few people have mentioned it, I'll have to give it a go.
@@LegendaryTactics We just got it 2 weeks ago (even though it's out of print, as so many people like to point out), and we played 5x times already (2, 3 and 4 players) and it really is AMAZING as others have claimed, I'm glad I pulled the trigger on this one, it was legit worth it.
It's easy to understand the rules, people got into the mechanics very quickly and easily, it's not that complicated but there is a lot going on, decisions in this game are really important, it is VERY strategic, THE ORDER in which you do your 4 actions is kind of crucial. It reminds me of Ankh, with the action selection, but you also "program" these actions in order and locations, cause people can put actions on top of your actions and affect your turns.
And the combat, my god, I wish more games did combat like this. It makes the combat in other games like Scythe, Ankh and Blood Rage, feeling basic and dull in comparison.
Luck is not really a factor, the players determine a lot of it and affect each other, it's engaging and the games makes everyone think really hard trying to decide what to do and in which order and how to engage in combat.. it's good, give it a shot if you ever get the chance.
I don't recommend playing 4 players for your first try, and DO NOT USE the "recommended tutorial" map setup for your first game found in the rules, just use the normal setup which is a modular setup and everyone makes the map together, it's so much better.
what about DUNE?
From the comments, I'm getting the feeling I should have included it.
#2 is a lie, they DID steal it from Puerto Rico
I have since realized this is true. Thanks for the correction.
StarCraft?
That one made the short list.
You miss
BURNING SUNS
Great 4x game like Ti4
True. But Rogue Angels is from the same designer, and it's going to be even MORE epic!
Dune might have been a better diplomacy based pic than the game diplomacy.
The games on this list NOT LIKE TI4:
Puerto Rico
Cosmic Encounter
Scythe
Civilization: New Dawn
Cry Havoc
Rebellion
Diplomacy
Clash of Cultures (Although the closest on this list)
Blueshift and Warpgate.
There's a few I haven't heard of.
Exodus: proxima centauri
Nice, I haven't heard of that one!
Blue shift
Dune!
Stellaris
Is that the Legacy game that's on kickstarter now?
Nexus Ops