I just bought a Quad and when I read the manual about the dots I assumed it was a misprint. Their example shows what looks to be the Ping club shown at the end of the video but I knew my Mizunos had less grooves so I just put them lower. So glad I found this video to confirm that I did it (mostly) correct despite the instructions
Very valuable session here J, I just re-stickered my entire set of clubs! Thanks for doing this, I progressively went lower on lower lofted irons to see how this goes.
We have GC Quads at my range at my club. I’ve been working on strike and dynamic loft, and followed FS instructions. I feel so relieved, as I thought I was going mad with the results. Couple of questions, 7 iron roughly between 3rd and 4th grooves. Wedges closer to second and 3rd. Any thoughts on fairway woods, 2/3iron and driver? General rule of thumb would be great. Loved the vid, thanks!
Excellent content and very well explained. I’ve been dotting like you are but I was always doubting myself given the Foresight Sports official explanations. Thx bud!
Well done for staying your course. I really hope other coaches and Custom fitters look at this content to hopefully reduce the instances where golfers are being taught to do the wrong thing 🤞 Thanks for the comment and for watching 👍
Great video Jay. I wonder by how much your results would vary if you had a softer mat. Would the strike be more accurate if the clubhead could sink beyond the ball like it does on turf. Curious
Hi Luis, I have a divot mat that easily allows the club head to sink below the ball ground level if one was to be hit heavy. It's one of the advantages of designing your own studio from floor to ceiling. I wanted a mat that would simulate the strike points of outdoor hitting...... Obviously I stopped short of having soil on the mat as my screen would need rather regular cleaning 😂😂😂 Thanks for the comment and for watching 👍
@@AskGolfNut Appreciate the response. For me, thishas been the obstacle for me to use my studio for frequently. It’s so stiff, it’s difficult to hit it cleanly - very little give. If you could share the smaller striking surface mat you inserted into your larger mat, it would be greatly appreciated!!!!
PW the dots actually get lower, closer to bottom dot. Due to loft the contract point is even lower on the ball so have to be lower the more loft, and highest of all with Driver 👍
Very good point - I have always wondered about those dots. For my part, I actually don't get why the dots needs to be there to start with. Maybe previous generations' tech, but a GC Quad measures with a framerate up to 10.000 fps., and it identifies things like lie and launch angle at 1/10'th of a degree. With the camera knowing where the ball is (even it's size), and at exactly what angle and direction the club head is delivered, the dots are absolutely superfluous. Given all the cameras, they must be able to see the bottom (and top) of the clubface, and the impact relative to the ball. So again. Why the dots???
To give people the opportunity to put them in the wrong place and inadvertently make golfers worse 😊🤦🤦😊 It would be lovely to come away from the dots, maybe when GC5 is released.... Whenever that may be 😊
Nope, dynamic lie will only be affected with the 2 middle dots not being in alignment if the 2 middle dots are lower and in line with the actual correct contact point on the golf ball, then the high / low contact point will be more representative of a true reading 👍🏻
Thanks for the great video. My question is, when you get to the more lofted clubs like the PW and the dots are so low and close to the bottom dot, will the problem you mention where GCquad reads it as one dot occur? And if so, what is the remedy for this? Thank you
PW are fine, it's not really until you get to the LW that blurring sometimes occurs. This is also more apparent when playing open faced shots which further increase loft. Although this problem is mitigated by the slower moving club head compared to that of say a 7 iron or definitely a driver 👍🏻
Thanks so much for your swift reply. Really appreciate it. I’ve since tested it out with the 9 iron and PW and unfortunately the adjusted fiducials are reading it as one dot. Would you have any suggestions on what I can do to remedy this? Perhaps adjust the fiducials just a touch higher albeit the data won’t be as accurate but it’ll read something? I Can’t think of a better solution
For Driver (always used off a tee and no ground interaction. I always use geometric middle, on all others where the ball is on the floor and there is a delofted downward attack, I used the curvature of the ball height location on the club face to place my dots 👍
I kinda get why they don't give you a loft to dot placement chart. Most people will get confused and get it wrong but your help will fix it for the motivated and capable
Great video! Thanks. Can you help with massive variations with dots not reading data in 4 dot method. Unless I'm changing the dots very regularly I regularly get readings that miss face / lie angle etc and read in one dot mode only. Thanks in advance
Mainly it's the bottom toe dot that needs replacing 👍🏻 hmt dots get expensive, well especially how many I use and get through 😊 It's the ground interaction that dulls the metallic finish of the bottom toe dot and causes 1 dot miss reads. For those I absolutely would ignore since we aren't sure which dot the Quad is using for 1 dot reading 👍🏻
Cool video! I think the data is correct regardless of the height of the center dots. Meaning the center dots are the vertical reference point, so if it says you hit 6mm low, it's 6mm lower than your dot placement, so it seems the number relative to the dot placement is always correct. The error is in the graphical representation of where you hit it on the face. It is nice to have the number and graphical line up though and simplifies the analysis in our heads. A question for you. Wouldn't the ideal location for the center dots match the vertical CG of the club? But how does someone find the exact CG location?
Hi Matt, great question. In reality only the, product engineers would know truly where the vertical CG is and wouldn't give that information out. Although when you look at the spectrum between super game improvement iron and blade, both sides of the vertical CG range, the actual difference in mm in relatively small so any small marginal adjustment would normally capture the majority of the change. If everyone makes sure they place their 2 middle dots in line with the contact point of the ball, under its equator where correct, strike would take place then all, is good. Going the Foresight way shows as super low striking all the time causing a newby at launch monitor swinging to generate a heavy (fat) shot miss which is much more deadly on a course than thin 👍👍
Thanks for the reply. I totally agree that the FS graphical representation can lead to more fat shots if the center dots are placed in the center of the club. Right, didn't think there was a way to find the real CG and some clubs even have a heel bias. Like all your Mizuno gear! I currently play the MP223 irons and love them.
Cheers for the info. While we're on the subject of dots where do you get yours from? The Foresight EU site seems to not have them for sale at the moment and I prefer not to use the dispensers anyway. I got some from ebay a while ago but have had some slightly odd readings since I've been using them - neutral lie angle, centre strike, face open to path, draw or face closed to path and fade which is hard to believe especially with an iron. New 'Superflash' unit in my GC2 (was still using the original I've had for years), no difference so wondering if it might be the stickers. Ball flight feels right but HMT data sometimes seems off. Any recommendations appreciated.
I've tested various versions from ebay for HMT dots and found that for consistency (especially doing what I do) the only ones to trust are the ones from Foresight. Are you in the UK? If so I'm fairly sure, they have some available via their Sales phone line 👍 They are expensive which is frustrating, but after numerous attempts at trying to circumvent the cost by looking at other brand options, the consistency of data just isn't the same 👍
@@AskGolfNut Yep, I’m in the UK so with give them a shout. Should have asked for a discount on the over-priced stickers when I bought the over-priced flash 😄 Seem to remember you fixing a used flash some time back, is that right? If so I may be in touch one day as I’ve got 2 used ones.
A super will last you probably near on the life of the unit unless you are an absolute range rat. Good on you though for purchasing the technology to try and assist in you getting better 👍
Fascinating! Should it not be possible for Foresight to fix their software calculations to allow dots far enough apart to discriminate and then calculate position? Basically do what you did in placing the dots after the fact? I guess it would mean either putting the dots on differently depending on loft or making sure the SW knows the lot of the club. What I am taking away from this is that the tech isn’t quite as foolproof as we’ve been leads to believe, and perhaps impact tape and/or powder still have a place!
Hi Jeff, what people, should take from this is to ensure they use their logical technical mind and ensure they know exactly, how the very thing they are using to change golfers swings, work. The technology in itself used the right way is nie on foolproof and is an amazing piece of kit. 👍 Thanks for the comment and for watching 👍
@@AskGolfNut , absolutely. But the engineer in me (EE, with some CS thrown in) would want to improve things! Especially if I was selling it for as much as a car! And a manual that sets one up for a less than optimum experience isn’t ideal! I enjoy that your content is a little different than most, even though I have a lot of work to do!
Have you or anyone tried to position the middle (vertical) dot closer to the hosel so that the Quad can pick up the spacing accurately and still get "V Impact" correct? Very good information specifically about the device and how we all use it. TY.
I just did a speed session with a driver using the 4 dot system on my face, but I only have a GC3. Will that give an inaccurate club speed number compared to using just a single dot on the top middle of the face? More accurate? Same reading?
Hi Trevor, the 4 dot won't change anything over the singular 1 dot, and if anything it may give inconsistent data using 4 dots. GC3 will lock onto one of the 4 dots on each impact and depending on which dot it reads, certain info will be affected. Club head speed would be the largest of the parameters. So I'd stick to 1 dot directly in the middle of the head at the top 👍
I've personally witnessed coaches making this common mistake in not understanding the technology and just going by the manual, causing larger contact issues with clients. So hopefully the change makes all the difference 👍
What adapter are you using to your gcquad in this video. Looks like one wire coming out of floor then an adapter going to quad with two connections. Possibly for Ethernet and usb c power? One wire.
I'm waiting for the GC Cern model. It should be able to determine what most bosons are doing a half a trillionth of a second after the big impact. At that moment in space/time, I'm usually in a superpositional state between God and damn.
The calcs are more complicated as 1) with an iron, most people are going to deliver the handle forward between 5-15 degrees and the shaft will be in lead deflection by about 3 degrees - so a 32 degree 7-iron at 10 degrees forward 3 degrees down with 3 degrees forward shaft deflection is 22 degrees - but this going to be moving all over the place given no golfer is the same. I believe the TXG guys use 2 grooves below recommendation. It does raise the question of why Foresight recommendations are pretty much over ridden by everyone - you would think they would change it.
You are right but they won't due to the potential misread, especially with loft increase. Truly, it's quite easy to initially let a golfer use a standard known loft iron, to warm up with. Now knowing the dynamic loft they deliver, build the dots around that. Subject to that loft being preferable as dynamic loft is often something that students need to work on. But you get my drift. Shaft dynamics whether it be lean through handle delivery or shaft deflection which is bend profile loading/unloading will all show up as dynamic loft delivered. So if you build the dot placement around that then again compared to the suggested placements 😊 you won't be far off whatsoever 👍 Again another great analytic comment and always love to hear your thoughts 👍
100% nerd 😂 love it. However, FS really should take it on board because loft clearly makes a difference to how it reads. It would be a very simple software change to be able to place dots in a consistent place but have a select box to enter the individual loft for the club being measured and alter the calculations based on that. This is why you’re not a massive corporate 👍🏻😂
Man, I get what you’re saying just seems like I feel like I’m going to screw up where I’m putting them. Lol would definitely like to figure this out though thank you.
Hi Steve, once you get used to doing it, it really does become second nature. The main thing is to not obsess over 1mm but in the main part getting the 90% right and not worrying about the 10%. If golfers go by the official suggestion then they aren't even 10% right, they are more like an additional 90% wrong 👍🏻
I just bought a Quad and when I read the manual about the dots I assumed it was a misprint. Their example shows what looks to be the Ping club shown at the end of the video but I knew my Mizunos had less grooves so I just put them lower. So glad I found this video to confirm that I did it (mostly) correct despite the instructions
Fingers crossed you hit the Subscribe button too??? 😊
Very valuable session here J, I just re-stickered my entire set of clubs! Thanks for doing this, I progressively went lower on lower lofted irons to see how this goes.
We have GC Quads at my range at my club. I’ve been working on strike and dynamic loft, and followed FS instructions. I feel so relieved, as I thought I was going mad with the results.
Couple of questions, 7 iron roughly between 3rd and 4th grooves. Wedges closer to second and 3rd. Any thoughts on fairway woods, 2/3iron and driver? General rule of thumb would be great. Loved the vid, thanks!
Excellent content and very well explained. I’ve been dotting like you are but I was always doubting myself given the Foresight Sports official explanations. Thx bud!
Well done for staying your course. I really hope other coaches and Custom fitters look at this content to hopefully reduce the instances where golfers are being taught to do the wrong thing 🤞
Thanks for the comment and for watching 👍
Great video Jay. I wonder by how much your results would vary if you had a softer mat. Would the strike be more accurate if the clubhead could sink beyond the ball like it does on turf. Curious
Hi Luis, I have a divot mat that easily allows the club head to sink below the ball ground level if one was to be hit heavy. It's one of the advantages of designing your own studio from floor to ceiling. I wanted a mat that would simulate the strike points of outdoor hitting...... Obviously I stopped short of having soil on the mat as my screen would need rather regular cleaning 😂😂😂
Thanks for the comment and for watching 👍
@@AskGolfNut Appreciate the response. For me, thishas been the obstacle for me to use my studio for frequently. It’s so stiff, it’s difficult to hit it cleanly - very little give. If you could share the smaller striking surface mat you inserted into your larger mat, it would be greatly appreciated!!!!
This is such a valuable video! I wonder why FS isn’t all over this. What have you found with putters?
Great video. My quad never worked right til I saw this. I was hitting it in center and was showing skinny.
Glad you enjoyed the video, don't forget to subscribe 😉👍
Brilliant video!!!! So for say PW do you recommend your dot positions in the same as your 7-iron or would you go up say a glove line or even two?
PW the dots actually get lower, closer to bottom dot. Due to loft the contract point is even lower on the ball so have to be lower the more loft, and highest of all with Driver 👍
Very good point - I have always wondered about those dots. For my part, I actually don't get why the dots needs to be there to start with. Maybe previous generations' tech, but a GC Quad measures with a framerate up to 10.000 fps., and it identifies things like lie and launch angle at 1/10'th of a degree. With the camera knowing where the ball is (even it's size), and at exactly what angle and direction the club head is delivered, the dots are absolutely superfluous. Given all the cameras, they must be able to see the bottom (and top) of the clubface, and the impact relative to the ball. So again. Why the dots???
To give people the opportunity to put them in the wrong place and inadvertently make golfers worse 😊🤦🤦😊
It would be lovely to come away from the dots, maybe when GC5 is released.... Whenever that may be 😊
Outstanding!! Does dot placement - your way vs recommended effect dynamic lie angle reading ?
Nope, dynamic lie will only be affected with the 2 middle dots not being in alignment if the 2 middle dots are lower and in line with the actual correct contact point on the golf ball, then the high / low contact point will be more representative of a true reading 👍🏻
Thanks for the great video. My question is, when you get to the more lofted clubs like the PW and the dots are so low and close to the bottom dot, will the problem you mention where GCquad reads it as one dot occur? And if so, what is the remedy for this? Thank you
PW are fine, it's not really until you get to the LW that blurring sometimes occurs. This is also more apparent when playing open faced shots which further increase loft.
Although this problem is mitigated by the slower moving club head compared to that of say a 7 iron or definitely a driver 👍🏻
Thanks so much for your swift reply. Really appreciate it. I’ve since tested it out with the 9 iron and PW and unfortunately the adjusted fiducials are reading it as one dot. Would you have any suggestions on what I can do to remedy this? Perhaps adjust the fiducials just a touch higher albeit the data won’t be as accurate but it’ll read something? I Can’t think of a better solution
@tsc5398 reach out via Instagram and send me a pic of your dots on the PW 👍🏻
Cool video - thank you. For driver, do you find the Foresight 4-dot instructions okay?
For Driver (always used off a tee and no ground interaction. I always use geometric middle, on all others where the ball is on the floor and there is a delofted downward attack, I used the curvature of the ball height location on the club face to place my dots 👍
@@AskGolfNut Cool. Thank you.
I kinda get why they don't give you a loft to dot placement chart. Most people will get confused and get it wrong but your help will fix it for the motivated and capable
Great video! Thanks. Can you help with massive variations with dots not reading data in 4 dot method. Unless I'm changing the dots very regularly I regularly get readings that miss face / lie angle etc and read in one dot mode only. Thanks in advance
Mainly it's the bottom toe dot that needs replacing 👍🏻 hmt dots get expensive, well especially how many I use and get through 😊
It's the ground interaction that dulls the metallic finish of the bottom toe dot and causes 1 dot miss reads. For those I absolutely would ignore since we aren't sure which dot the Quad is using for 1 dot reading 👍🏻
Cool video! I think the data is correct regardless of the height of the center dots. Meaning the center dots are the vertical reference point, so if it says you hit 6mm low, it's 6mm lower than your dot placement, so it seems the number relative to the dot placement is always correct. The error is in the graphical representation of where you hit it on the face. It is nice to have the number and graphical line up though and simplifies the analysis in our heads.
A question for you. Wouldn't the ideal location for the center dots match the vertical CG of the club? But how does someone find the exact CG location?
Hi Matt, great question. In reality only the, product engineers would know truly where the vertical CG is and wouldn't give that information out. Although when you look at the spectrum between super game improvement iron and blade, both sides of the vertical CG range, the actual difference in mm in relatively small so any small marginal adjustment would normally capture the majority of the change.
If everyone makes sure they place their 2 middle dots in line with the contact point of the ball, under its equator where correct, strike would take place then all, is good. Going the Foresight way shows as super low striking all the time causing a newby at launch monitor swinging to generate a heavy (fat) shot miss which is much more deadly on a course than thin 👍👍
Thanks for the reply. I totally agree that the FS graphical representation can lead to more fat shots if the center dots are placed in the center of the club. Right, didn't think there was a way to find the real CG and some clubs even have a heel bias.
Like all your Mizuno gear! I currently play the MP223 irons and love them.
Cheers for the info.
While we're on the subject of dots where do you get yours from? The Foresight EU site seems to not have them for sale at the moment and I prefer not to use the dispensers anyway. I got some from ebay a while ago but have had some slightly odd readings since I've been using them - neutral lie angle, centre strike, face open to path, draw or face closed to path and fade which is hard to believe especially with an iron. New 'Superflash' unit in my GC2 (was still using the original I've had for years), no difference so wondering if it might be the stickers. Ball flight feels right but HMT data sometimes seems off. Any recommendations appreciated.
I've tested various versions from ebay for HMT dots and found that for consistency (especially doing what I do) the only ones to trust are the ones from Foresight. Are you in the UK? If so I'm fairly sure, they have some available via their Sales phone line 👍
They are expensive which is frustrating, but after numerous attempts at trying to circumvent the cost by looking at other brand options, the consistency of data just isn't the same 👍
@@AskGolfNut Yep, I’m in the UK so with give them a shout. Should have asked for a discount on the over-priced stickers when I bought the over-priced flash 😄
Seem to remember you fixing a used flash some time back, is that right? If so I may be in touch one day as I’ve got 2 used ones.
Should of spoke to me first on that one as I have some brand new Flashes from when I had GC2 HMT 👍
@@AskGolfNut Never mind, done now :)
A super will last you probably near on the life of the unit unless you are an absolute range rat. Good on you though for purchasing the technology to try and assist in you getting better 👍
Fascinating! Should it not be possible for Foresight to fix their software calculations to allow dots far enough apart to discriminate and then calculate position? Basically do what you did in placing the dots after the fact? I guess it would mean either putting the dots on differently depending on loft or making sure the SW knows the lot of the club.
What I am taking away from this is that the tech isn’t quite as foolproof as we’ve been leads to believe, and perhaps impact tape and/or powder still have a place!
Hi Jeff, what people, should take from this is to ensure they use their logical technical mind and ensure they know exactly, how the very thing they are using to change golfers swings, work.
The technology in itself used the right way is nie on foolproof and is an amazing piece of kit. 👍
Thanks for the comment and for watching 👍
@@AskGolfNut , absolutely. But the engineer in me (EE, with some CS thrown in) would want to improve things! Especially if I was selling it for as much as a car! And a manual that sets one up for a less than optimum experience isn’t ideal!
I enjoy that your content is a little different than most, even though I have a lot of work to do!
Just sub'd, great video! - Now if you could only teach us home golf sim nerds where to place Eye XO stickers!
Have you or anyone tried to position the middle (vertical) dot closer to the hosel so that the Quad can pick up the spacing accurately and still get "V Impact" correct? Very good information specifically about the device and how we all use it. TY.
Hi Bob, interesting idea, can you explain the positioning with a bit more detail so I can work through the physics of things 👍
Great video Jay
Love your passion, mate 👍
I just did a speed session with a driver using the 4 dot system on my face, but I only have a GC3. Will that give an inaccurate club speed number compared to using just a single dot on the top middle of the face? More accurate? Same reading?
Hi Trevor, the 4 dot won't change anything over the singular 1 dot, and if anything it may give inconsistent data using 4 dots. GC3 will lock onto one of the 4 dots on each impact and depending on which dot it reads, certain info will be affected. Club head speed would be the largest of the parameters. So I'd stick to 1 dot directly in the middle of the head at the top 👍
13th viewer here. I have been frustrated with the how low gcquad says my impact is. Now I know why. Thanks!
I've personally witnessed coaches making this common mistake in not understanding the technology and just going by the manual, causing larger contact issues with clients. So hopefully the change makes all the difference 👍
What adapter are you using to your gcquad in this video. Looks like one wire coming out of floor then an adapter going to quad with two connections. Possibly for Ethernet and usb c power? One wire.
POE 👍👍
@@AskGolfNut Thanks that is what I thought. Know which Poe adapter that is for the ethernet and dc power plug?
I'm waiting for the GC Cern model. It should be able to determine what most bosons are doing a half a trillionth of a second after the big impact. At that moment in space/time, I'm usually in a superpositional state between God and damn.
The calcs are more complicated as 1) with an iron, most people are going to deliver the handle forward between 5-15 degrees and the shaft will be in lead deflection by about 3 degrees - so a 32 degree 7-iron at 10 degrees forward 3 degrees down with 3 degrees forward shaft deflection is 22 degrees - but this going to be moving all over the place given no golfer is the same. I believe the TXG guys use 2 grooves below recommendation. It does raise the question of why Foresight recommendations are pretty much over ridden by everyone - you would think they would change it.
You are right but they won't due to the potential misread, especially with loft increase.
Truly, it's quite easy to initially let a golfer use a standard known loft iron, to warm up with. Now knowing the dynamic loft they deliver, build the dots around that. Subject to that loft being preferable as dynamic loft is often something that students need to work on. But you get my drift.
Shaft dynamics whether it be lean through handle delivery or shaft deflection which is bend profile loading/unloading will all show up as dynamic loft delivered. So if you build the dot placement around that then again compared to the suggested placements 😊 you won't be far off whatsoever 👍
Again another great analytic comment and always love to hear your thoughts 👍
great video, maybe it is better just use the chalk dust 🙂
100% nerd 😂 love it. However, FS really should take it on board because loft clearly makes a difference to how it reads. It would be a very simple software change to be able to place dots in a consistent place but have a select box to enter the individual loft for the club being measured and alter the calculations based on that.
This is why you’re not a massive corporate 👍🏻😂
This is why I'm still not a millionaire 😂😂
Do I put the dots in the same place for every club?
Hi Steve, nope the dots need to move at different heights depending on the 'dynamic' loft delivered of the club in question 👍🏻
Only exception is driver as this is always from geometric 👍🏻
Man, I get what you’re saying just seems like I feel like I’m going to screw up where I’m putting them. Lol would definitely like to figure this out though thank you.
Hi Steve, once you get used to doing it, it really does become second nature. The main thing is to not obsess over 1mm but in the main part getting the 90% right and not worrying about the 10%. If golfers go by the official suggestion then they aren't even 10% right, they are more like an additional 90% wrong 👍🏻
Do you have a close average chart that will work for most clubs?
The guys at TXG said the same thing the other day.
Glad to be in good company then 👍👍👍👍👍
Just curious are you related to Paul Casey? Because you look like him and sound just like him?
We were separated at birth, I'm not sure which one is Arnold and the other one Danny 🤣🤣
Nope no relation 😊👍🏻
@@AskGolfNut Great answer. Obviously this is not the first time someone has asked you the same question.
👍🏾
Myrtle Mission
I'm confused sorry??.......
Make it 13 ppl!
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Can you sell me 5g of the powder.....best do it by private courier 🤪
It's great stuff 😂