Poor Howie wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire. He used an old lady as a prop, knowing she's be dead by the time he settled. His last day on Earth.
Howard was probably my favorite character after Mike. In the end, he lost most of his reputation, his marriage, never got closure on why Jimmy and Kim did what they did and got popped by Lalo for just being there - trying to confront them both. Man he didn't deserve going out like that. Look how they massacred my boy 😢
The thing is Howard had no clue, even Bill Oakley and Jimmy's coworkers at the courthouse knew he was playing with unsavory characters and learned to stay away but Howard was so completely removed from Jimmy's criminal activities that he just walked into his death.
Howard was the mirror of Hank in BB. They are the straight, innocent characters acting as regular plot antagonists to Walt/Saul. No matter who you are rooting for when watching the shows, their deaths are devastating to viewer and to Walt/Saul.
Meanwhile Walter was a bad man who was always at the right time and place and had the intelligence to make the most of it . Power doesn't corrupt, it only reveals. Walter was always pety about how he was scrued over in the past by his former partner and former lover and he never let go .
@@zeo4481 He wasn't screwed by Gretchen and company. Vince Gilligan revealed that Walt left Gretchen because he was insecure about the wealth that Gretchen's family had and how he would always be in their shadow.
It gets overlooked a lot, I think because Jimmy and Kim never say out loud why they do things, but all of this is planned in the hotel room after they literally have been hiding out from lalo in fear for their lives, Jimmy has PTSD still from the desert that was only like a day or two before, and Kim was traumatized from that as well. It’s a huge coping mechanism for these two who don’t process their emotions. They are trying to make each other feel better. It’s also easier for Kim to hyper focus on a perceived slight from Howard than confront the fact that Howard was more than right about Jimmy being a danger to her. He has literally brought a killer into her life! And almost got them killed. Some people drink, these two scam to feel better. Mostly they did Howard was because he was convenient, and they knew him well. They are all almost like siblings.
I agree, and think that has A LOT to do with it. The underlying resentment is mostly about their own inability to process their guilt/feelings over Chuck's death, so they project it on to Howard. Since a lot of people wont pick up on this, they look for more overt reasons.
About the Lalo thing, I think it speaks more about Slippin’ Kimmy than Slippin’ Jimmy. Because, you said that Kim chose to target Howard because she felt resentful about how Jimmy brought a murderer into her life, right? Well, there were at least THREE TIMES that the solutions walked right in front of her face. 1. 5x10. Jimmy wanted to divorce her “for her own good” but she didn’t let him go. Instead, she came up with the Howard plan during dinner and they ended up having sex as usual (Side note: This scene showed the first sign of Kim’s mentality of “Nobody can hurt Jimmy, except for me.” which she will do these things A LOT in season 6. She felt revolted in the beginning of the episode when Jimmy (with a sunburn) said that he would like to have a couple massage. She didn’t like the idea of someone else possibly hurting Jimmy but she ended up having sex with him, knowing that he hadn’t eat for 4 full days before the dinner they just had and was severely dehydrated. I’m pretty sure that someone in that condition needs to be sleeping in a hospital, not engaging in any sexual activity.) 2. DA Suzanne chose to talk to her about Lalo stuff because like everyone else, she believed that Kim will be easier to reason with than Jimmy. She even told Kim that she will offer Jimmy’s protection from the cartel in case he ratted on Lalo. Kim barely listened to what she said because she was too busy being furious at Suzanne for calling Jimmy a “scumbag”. When Jimmy came back home, Kim told him everything (except the fact that Suzanne will offer him protection if he ratted) and kind of half-suggesting half-threatening him that he had to make a choice either being the friend of the cartel or a rat. 3. Mike told Kim that his men were protecting Jimmy and Kim. If she told Jimmy about this, Jimmy might have a conversation with Mike about whether he should rat on Lalo or not and how far Mike will be willing to protect them. Jimmy might also canceled the whole Howard scam and put their own safety as his first priority. We all know what choice she made and it ended up putting her and Jimmy in the greater danger than ever.
Yep. Howard confronted Kim about Jimmy at the wrong time. Not only has Jimmy worked through a lot of his issues at that point following the events of Bag Man, but Kim was in no position to hear what he had to say. She was still in protective wife mode, and was going to strike back for the perceived attack.
I think Kim's criminal past is something no one knows about. Jimmy kind of brought it back out of her and she ran with it. The scene with her shoplifting as a kid and having her mom help her get away with it was a hint to that. I would not be surprised to see Kim out-Jimmy Jimmy. Sandpiper money is coming. Jimmy and Kim's relationship is really weird. Almost cold.
I agree, I think both Kim and Jimmy’s judgement was impaired by their trauma and so they displaced their fear and feelings of helplessness onto Howard because he was a safer target than Lalo and the Cartel. Classic Freudian defense mechanism of displacement- otherwise why go to such great lengths to bring Howard down even when, at least in Kim’s case she was given opportunity to have her pro-bono practice without the Sandpiper settlement money? I also agree that scamming is their go-to coping strategy, as you said.
What they did with Howard towards the end was fantastic. He wasn't just duped. He was smart but they just figured out a way to beat him that wouldn't allow him to take them down. And in the end, he is there so you see how terrible Jimmy and Kim have become.
i mean, they didn't WANT lalo there. saul still thought he was dead before he walked in. if not for lalo, howard would absolutely be able to defeat kim and saul, and the story of breaking bad would have been VERY different. that and, we know from BB that saul is terrified of lalo and the saul/jimmy we know in bcs would never willingly co-operate with lalo on anything. sure saul and kim were doing something horrific to howard but they didn't want him dead, they WANTED him back on his feet. it's like how howard said in s6e5. "all roads lead back to you. its psych 101. you WANT to be caught." i do think howards right, at least when jimmy thinks lalos dead and that with kims help he can get out of whatever trouble he'd land in. lalo is the x-factor, the thing that keeps saul's cons from going off the deep end in BB, especially since he seems to think lalo is alive through BB (even if lalo dies in the 2nd half of s6 if it doesnt happen before jimmys eyes he likely wont believe it, since he's seen lalo effectively rise from the dead once before). they didnt want howard dead. the coke allegations may have hurt his credibility but now that he was wise to the PI con he could have gotten a real one and either caught jimmy and kim, putting them away and repairing his reputation and relationship with casamiro, schweikart and cliff main, or pressured them into not messing with howard further. he'd have won eitherway, and kim & saul HAD to have known that that would have been the endgame, unless they blew the 2 mil from sandpiper on something even bigger. but now he's dead, so oh well.
This chicanery must end. After the Howard plan and Irene, people still think Kim and Jimmy are the good guys what a sick joke. HE DEFECATED TROUGH A SUN ROOF
That is what always happens when the powerful refuse to listen. They are being treated with contempt like the people in American are being treated now. it is dangerous to treat people with contempt. Some, only a small number will extract and terrible revenge.
Patrick Fabian nails the part of Howard in my opinion. He is a great actor. He really captures the rigid lawyer that seems to uptight enjoy life at times.
I blame Kim more than saul for Howard's death. She's the one who really pushed to take him down, saul tossed the idea around and just seemed like he wanted to screw with him. But Kim wanted to end his career, Howard was a genuine nice guy who took his position seriously and always wanted to be professional, even if he did come across serious at times. He cared about his career and always tried to do the right thing and now unfortunately being at the wrong place at the wrong time and Jimmy and Kim got him killed
True although he did enable her. He could have told her no when she first brought it up, and I think had he not agreed to the plan, she wouldn’t have gone through with it.
I agree, and I like Kim as a character because of it. I felt like Kim has for a long time been revolving around Jimmy and she wasn't a full character until Mesa Verde happened. The consequence of Howard's death is inevitably going to develop Kim in such a bold way if Kim owns up to what she did.
Kim basically just held on to her irrational hatred of him due to her demotion into the mail room which she never believed was anyones decision beyond Howard’s jimmy mostly wanted to fuck with him because he felt guilty about inadvertently leading his brother to suicide and deflected it all on him
Chuck was likely the managing partner (at least on paper) until his death. The firm was started by Howard's dad and Chuck. That's another reason why he probably deferred to Chuck, even when he would have gone a different way. After Chuck passed, Howard had all of the power and one of the first things he did with it is offer Jimmy a job. There's no doubt about it: Chuck was a crappy brother, especially to his brother who served him as caregiver and nurse maid. Chuck was the puppet master who had Howard do all the dirty work. Kim is the puppet master who has Jimmy shoulder all of the criminal exposure.
@@bingingbinging8597 kim is way worse than skyler. Skyler was just a mom who had to deal with her husband/ drug kingpin putting their family in mortal danger.
@@bingingbinging8597 Nah, Skylar actually tried to put an end to Walt's criminal activity or at least distance herself and her children from Walter. Kim made Jimmy's toxic behavior even worse.
@@bendavis6457 Walt was selling drugs to junkies he didn’t wrong Skyler in any way yet she started treating him like he is her personal enemy Kim was a much better wife because even though she enabled Jimmy she never gave him shit for things that she herself encouraged him to do
@@Kahooni I mean he wouldn't never put in a situation to confront them in the first place if they left him alone and didnt try to sabotage his entire career.
The murder of Howard really surprised me and caught me off guard completely! I am so sorry that this fabulous series is leaving after the second half of season seven. 😭
The #1 Emotion Driving All Narcissists is Vengence. Narcissists are Entitled, Explpoititive and lacking in Empathy and Shame. They have unrealistic expectations that lead to resentments that lead to the desire for vengence. THAT's why they did what they did to Howard. They are a man/woman portrait of two people who surrendered body and soul to the potential narcissism in us all.
I also gotta say: Kim’s finger-gun scene is easily the most terrifying scene of this entire show 🤣 Just like Jimmy, the audience is suddenly completely aware that a monster has been officially created. Makes you wonder even more what her role might be in BB. That moment almost vaguely confirms if she really is the puppeteer of Saul Goodman.
Howard is the scapegoat for both Jimmy and Kim. Jimmy uses Howard as a target for his anger and guilt about Chucks death. Instead of grieving, he’s mad at Howard. Instead of being angry at himself, he’s angry at Howard. Kim uses Howard to avoid her anger too, particularly her anger towards Jimmy. She feels some amount of guilt for Chucks death and she definitely feels angry at/ashamed of that “slippin” part of herself, and hating Howard helps with those feelings too, but primarily (especially in recent seasons), she uses him to let out her anger at Jimmy. Like at 36:24 what she says about Howard is basically word for word how she must feel about Jimmy (and from the look on jimmys face, he knows it on some level too). She loves Jimmy and doesn’t know how to simultaneously hold all this anger towards him, so she hates Howard instead.
Jimmy and Kim are a study of Scapegoating Narcissists. The #1 Emotion Driving All Narcissists is Vengence. Narcissists are Entitled, Exploititive and lacking in Empathy and Shame. They have unrealistic expectations that lead to resentments that lead to the desire for vengence (and the corresponding need to scapegoat). THAT's why they did what they did to Howard. They are a portrait of those who surrender body and soul to the potential narcissist in us all. That's why both have had such a chillling effect on some viewers.
yep just makes kim as loathsome as you can get, Saul was just trying to cope with the death of a family member, while Kim is just a vindictive bitch who takes all her issues and pins them in a guy who wants nothing but to be on top terms with the both of them, because it's easier than confronting her hubby who could do No wrong. FUCK I hate Kim, fans like to compare her to Walt but Walt had charisma and Kim has absolutely none of that she's a bore every time she's onscreen
Howard was the best person across the BB/BCS universe. He had morals, ethics, was caring, genuinely wanted to help others. He didn't deserve anything that came his way and everyone in his life took hot steaming shits on him constantly. I'm just happy the truth of Howard's awful demise came out, but still a little sad he's likely to remain under the superlab for long long time.
On the Bowling Ball Confrontation: I am amazed at the number of fans who think Howard was out of line in this scene, thinking he was misogynistic for questioning her leaving S&C, and patronizing for lecturing her about Jimmy. On the first, I can't imagine anyone not having a similar reaction if one of their friends decided to walk away from a well paying gig (one that Kim aggressively pursued for years) for low-profit PD work. Jimmy was just as confused. As for assuming Jimmy was behind it, let's be honest - given his history, it is not an unreasonable assumption. On the second point, if you saw your friend's (or even associate's) husband acting irrationally, why wouldn't you give them the head's up?
But the reasons fans think like that because Kim was right though. Howard didn’t respect her enough to be her own person. He always saw her as an innocent victim of Jimmy (just like everyone else) until 6x7.
@@nont18411 howard always wanted to see the best in people. thats why he was so forgiving to jimmy. chuck was holding him back from hiring jimmy which might have set jimmy on a different path even. howard wanted to see the best in kim later when he finally gave up on jimmy.
I think it was both. I think it's sexist that every single person in the show pictures Kim as a goody two shoes when really she's only ever shown that she's scared of getting caught, but has no problem otherwise with doing bad things or being self destructive. Kim looks from the outside like a weak person getting manipulated by a sleezy guy, which ignores that she has always been an incredibly smart and cunning person with lots of autonomy. That being said, even though that assumption is sexist doesn't mean it can't also be kind of right. Jimmy is not manipulating or controlling her, but it's obvious that these two together are a bad influence on each other. She uses the fact that the assumption of her as a victim is sexist to ignore the fact that Howard is still right about them being bad for each other, and her making bad choices. He's "kind of" wrong, and therefor she decides he's completely wrong.
Howard had Chuck’s approval in a way that Jimmy always yearned for. Chuck’s parting words to Jimmy "The truth is you've never mattered all that much to me” wounded Jimmy deeply. Howard was a proxy for all the resentment and unrequited love, so Jimmy’s mission was to make Howard feel like he was nothing, too. Sadly, in Chuck’s case, he himself resented Jimmy, as the younger brother was seemingly the favorite of his mother
If you think about it more deeply. Chuck was in law school when elementary school aged Jimmy stole from his dad's corner store. Chuck was working hard yet Jimmy was goofing around not taking his job seriously. Yet Jimmy's mom said ah it's no big deal, Jimmy didn't know Chuck, while she ignored Chuck's success in law school. That was the beginning of Chuck resenting Jimmy when Jimmy was 9 years old. Isn't that crazy?
@@RenaldyCalixte I can't blame Chuck for being resentful. He did everything the right way and worked his butt off. Meanwhile Jimmy took shortcuts and yet was still the favored one.
@@irvinmorales1409 Yes but Chuck's resentment led to Chuck developing extreme pride about his value compared to Jimmy. Chuck I think should have tried more with Jimmy. However Jimmy also should have tried harder to not take shortcuts. Jimmy was addicted to taking shortcuts and he was never honest about that.
Also, Howard and Jimmy are more similar than everyone thought. Both chose to be the puppets for those they care about (Howard being Chuck’s puppet and Jimmy being Kimmy’s puppet), knowing that what they did was wrong but chose to do it anyway just to not upset their loved ones (Howard did it because he’s afraid that Chuck will tank the firm if he’s upset, Jimmy did it to salvage what’s left of his marriage with Kim). Not to mention that both Howard and Jimmy chose to be the “front” who always took the blames meanwhile the “masterminds” behind the scene were the ones who always took the morals.
Similar on being puppets, but completely different on why; Howard fears resistance, rocking the boat, and failure - Jimmy truly wants those he loves to get anything they want for their own sake first and foremost. But yeah, both let it get in their way in tragic proportions.
@@andrelindblad6804 he only f-ed with Howard becuae Kim was insisting. But he could’ve just said “no that’s too much”. He loves her so much that is willing to do whatever she asks
@@andrelindblad6804 he wasn’t all that into the whole “Howard takedown” scheme to start with, for one thing - he actually called for shutting it down more than once.
I feel like it's all the things Howard said, plus the fact that they dehumanized him until they realized about his marriage😔 Thank you Kiwi ❤🥝 RIP Howard
This video is as comprehensive a breakdown of the complicated relationships between and amongst Chuck, Jimmy, Howard, and Kim as we're going to get. Great work, Kiwi.
Let's not forget that both Kim and Jimmy always got a massive kick out of scamming people. There is a lot motivation coming from the gratification they got from the act itself. In the immortal word of the movie Heat: The action IS the juice.
On "You're a shitty lawyer" - I think that Jimmy knew what he was doing. On some level he knows he is guilty for what is happening to Howard, and that it is undeserved (just as he doesn't really have his heart set on the scheme in season 6). He can't be honest with Howard, so instead he gets aggressive to push him out of his stupor. "Fuck you, Jimmy" is exactly what he was looking for - evidence that his kick in the ass will get Howard going. I don't think Jimmy is at all resentful over this.
Gott disagree about the exchange in the parking garage; Howard was 100% in the right(and correct) in saying Jimmy didn't care about the Sandpiper clients and only wanted his payout. And was correct in his assesment that is was not beyond Jimmy to pull some scam to undermine the case moving forward. At that point Howard was acting in the clients best interests, Jimmy was only concerned about his own. Also, you are misreading the scene from S4 when Jimmy tells Howard, he is a shitty lawyer and how is he letting one little setback destory the firm...Jimmy was actually trying to help. That was more of a "tough love" type pep talk to help get Howard out of his depression. Loved the video besides those two minor things.
I love Jimmy’s character, so I might just be defending him at all costs, but I do think he genuinely cared about the sandpiper elders. It is true that these people are old and might not even live to see their pay out
@@michaela389 I struggle with this idea also. It is true the Sandpiper clients are elderly and many may not have years to wait for their payouts to come. But the net affect of Jimmy’s meddling has already resulted in a loss for the Sandpiper clients. Rich Swichart said after the mediation hearing was canceled they were going back to their original offer and would he reducing the offer by $1 million per day if not accepted. By Jimmy and Kim engaging in this character assassination of Howard they have actually harmed the Sandpiper clients in addition to destroying Howard’s character and now his life! I do however think Jimmy had genuine care for the elderly Sandpiper clients but he put his and Kim’s personal interest and sick need for some kind of revenge on Howard ahead of theirs while convincing himself he was “doing the Lord’s work”! Even Huell wasn’t convinced of Jimmy’s good intentions in this scam.
@@michaela389 He liked the old folks in the case, and did not feel they would lose out on much if the case was settled early(he rationalized it by saying they will get $15-$20 less per person) but at that point all he wanted was his $$, he was not thinking of them... what was his next move? It was trying to manipulate the Sandpiper residents into settling... he wanted his end, that was it.
@@jordanl1911 It’s frustrating so much whenever Jimmy let his greed clouded his judgment because he ended up hurting himself every time. First with the Sandpiper thing with Irene. He lost the respect of the elderly. Second with the Lalo thing. He left the desert near death and got a PTSD for the rest of his life. Third with the Walter thing. He lost his career, is now on the run and this time it wouldn’t be a near death situation. He could end up dead for real.
Howard is one of my favorite characters in either show because he’s a total inversion of the tired “rich jerk” trope. He’s the kind of man who did grow up well-off but paid attention to what his dad did to get the money. Even to the point that he’s the one being harassed/on the defensive in many instances.
Excellent video. Chuck and his self-centeredness, resentments of Jimmy, lack of self-awareness uncontrolled inner rage set alllllll this in motion. As the oldest child of four children, I’m upset with Chuck that he didn’t protect his family better. Chuck is the responsible older sibling; his criticisms were never constructive and his attaboys (ex.: Jimmy passing the bar and Kim getting Mess Verde) don’t feel happy or heart-felt. Chuck is so trifling that he didn’t even tell Jimmy his mother’s last word was Jimmy’s name. Even as upset and out of control Chuck’s last day was, I think a part of him did this to hurt Jimmy. His rage was ever present, cold, constant and at times explosive. “You’re nota reeeal lawyer.”
Such brilliant acting ... I loved to hate Chuck because he was such an arsehole to Jimmy and I think your assessment is spot on! Between Howard and Chuck they thwarted Jimmy at every turn and then the pair of them turned on each other. Jimmy and Kim are still the heroes of the show to me ... remains to be seen if their good team-work will continue or if they will somehow be turned against each other or split up, perhaps through the death of Kim? Yikes!
Chuck is a narcissist who never thinks that he’s at fault for anything. His assessment for Jimmy might be right but it’s still irrelevant because he didn’t say it from the sense of justice. He said it from his hatred and jealousy towards Jimmy. If someone is gonna have the most accurate assessment in Jimmy’s character, that person is Suzanne Ericsen.
I could not agree more. Chuck still has a jealous for ‘the baby of the family’. Every older sibling gets this way. Regressive behaviors to get parents attention. Not understanding why a mother would need focus on her youngest over her eldest. But we all grow out of it. Chuck never did. Like the death bed seen. Their mother calling out for Jimmy doesn’t mean he’s the favorite son. But Chuck is So Jealous he can only view it that way.
Huh? Chuck was right from the very beginning about Jimmy. We didn't understand it at the time, but now we should. Chuck was a proud officer of the law and the law was sacred to him. Jimmy ain't a real lawyer, and he hurts people around him due to his crooked ways. He is as dirty as they come. Chuck called it from the very start. We would now understand where he was coming from. Chucks motive from the very beginning was to get Jimmy as far away as possible from being an officer of the law. Wich is why, if you remember he worked hard to get him suspended but failed. And what happened in the end? Jimmy destroyed HHM and its reputation and everything his brother had built, and got Howard killed and tarnished his name, just for the "fun" of it. The real crook here is Jimmy but also Kim. They are sociopaths, like Howard says moments before death.
I always enjoy these types of videos as it really makes you think more about why they hate Howard as much as they do. I do think Jimmy was basically at peace with whatever grudge he had with Howard with the various stuff he did to him in Season 5, such as paying the two women to cause a scene at the table he and Cliff were are and launching bowling balls at his car. Jimmy went along with the scheme this season due to Kim and we saw he was apprehensive about going through with it at various points. Kim really wanted to set Howard’s career back, but both of course didn’t want the outcome that we saw happened to Howard to happen. Thank you for the video man, keep up the great work!
This video is exactly what I needed- a review of Kim and Jimmy’s history with Howard! I wanted to review the series especially for this purpose but I don’t have the time before the series returns- Now I don’t have to! This must have taken a lot of work! Much appreciated!!! Keep the great videos coming!
I found this channel while binge watching earlier seasons. Even the older video conversations/comments regarding these characters are entertaining and engaging. Channels like this really enhance my enjoyment of the show when I can discuss motivations, twists and morality of these characters with others.
This show is so well-written. Every little detail makes sense and matters to the plot. Every character is nuanced, unique and really feels genuine. I cannot fathom how on Earth they have succeeded in making SUCH an amazing show.
"Things work out the way they're supposed to. I guess." This is Howard's tragic flaw. Howard is an idealist who believes in fairytale endings. He refuses to let an issue go without proper closure, pursuing the perfect outcome until it gets him killed. This flawed worldview is even reflected in his final words: "There's really no need to (shoot anyone)." The moment that captures his flaw perfectly is when Howard reminds Jimmy he used to call him "Charlie Hustle" signaling he wants to make amends, but in response Jimmy simply shrugs it off, walking past the dent trashcan from the first episode. Howard would have an easier time restoring that trashcan to perfect condition, than making things right with Jimmy. Howard can't do it. The trashcan is already too warped. Fair or not, their relationship is permanently disfigured. But Howard doesn't get this. He thinks his apologies will do good and be fully accepted, when in reality, interpersonal damage is often permanent and apologies are usually counterproductive. No one can truly forgive and first impressions are hard to break. Howard should have listened to Kim and just let them both exit his life on bad terms. But he couldn't help himself, searching for a perfect happy ending that was never possible.
But he couldn't leave them alone. Jimmy was trying to sabotage Howard's career through the entire first half of season 7, and would have continued to do so. What is he supposed to do, leave and pretend they will leave him alone? Kim and Jimmy are simply evil characters who took their revenge quests WAY too far. Howard has a tragic death because he didn't deserve any of it.
@@grey-spark Maybe Jimmy should’ve just said “No, I won’t take the job because I hate you and what you and Chuck did to me.”, you know, like a normal person. Not throwing bowling balls and sending hookers to him.
@@nont18411 True. I'm not defending Jimmy. He's toxic. But Howard should've pick up on that instead of pursuing an impossible fantasy. Its not even Howards fault necessarily. He just didn't know better.
Honestly chuck and howard seemed to have the brother relationship that jimmy wanted out of chuck. With howard being the brother chuck wished he had over Jimmy.
Kim and Jimmy's relationship is so interesting. Thinking back to when kim got thrown into doc review, and Jimmy lied to her about the commercial being approved, I think that from that point forward she decided that if he was going to do these antics, she needs to be clued in on them. Only later did it start really rubbing off on her and she realized she liked partaking in them. If you really think of it, Kim was basically groomed into dropping her standards time and time again, by her mother, by Jimmy, by social pressures. At this point I feel like she thinks she cant get anything actually productive done without conning someone.
I'm not sure it's just a pragmatic skill she uses. She really seems to like it, even turned on by it. Part of it, maybe most of it, is the thrill. And by proxy, distracts herself of her own internal issues.
@@forknife326 seeing the end of the series now, I can still stand by this statement. She literally was groomed into being deceptive. As soon as she left Jimmy, she stopped all her antics(although I think it was out of guilt also) I doubt she was happy in that life after Jimmy, but thats another topic entirely. Slippin' Kimmy was brought out by those around her. Slippin' Jimmy is who Jimmy is.
I'm not at all convinced that Chuck was pulling the strings to putting Kim in doc review. I think Howard was completely angry that his professional brand was hurt by Jimmy's antics. And Howard values NOTHING more than his professional brand. That's fully explainable with Howard's character and without assuming Chuck was pulling that particular string. I also think he was being passive aggressive when he interrupted Kim with Kevin and Paige. He didn't deserve what happened to him, but I have a less charitable view of Howard than you and many others do.
Every member of the class in the Sandpiper Crossing case is elderly. Even if Jimmy was greedy, when you have elderly clients who could die before getting any payout, justice delayed is justice denied. That's why you can't absolve Howard and HHM for dragging out the proceedings, even if they were trying to maximize the total payout. That can be evidence of Howard's greed, just as Jimmy's impatience is evidence of his greed.
Yes you can. They are trying to get the max pay out for the clients and the punitive damages Sandpiper must pay and such suits are often the most reliable means of punishing large companies that behave this way. None of the elders we're shown are in bad health simply being a senior does not put you imminently on death's door. In fact the only one of Jimmy's elder law clients to pass away was not even one of the class members. Jimmy's motivations to settle were self centered not just self serving.
@@adamantiiispencespence4012 Not really though, Jimmy might be greedy but those old people deserve to get paid before they are gone. They even complained about it in 6x5 before Howard did a Slippin’ Howie move to convince them to calm down. Getting Sandpiper settled right away beforehand might came from the wrong reasons from Jimmy and Kim but it benefits the old folks the most because it answers to their biggest concern which is about the uncertainty of dying.
@@nont18411 I just want to reiterate in my previous comment. I want to add though that persuading the clients not to rush to settlement is still ultimately a net benefit for the class. It's not a scam for Howard to successfully persuade them of such. Cliff Maine from everything were shown is a kind and upstanding person and he was pleased with Howard's save.
@@adamantiiispencespence4012 But the uncertainty is high though. These are old folks which means when the case is finally settled in the future, it’s not even certain that how many people in that group would be still alive to get the benefits but what is certain is that HHM will get the benefit for sure. Law is complicated. That’s why characters like Chuck, Howard, Kim and Jimmy cannot be categorized in a clear cut of being good or evil. Even Saul, Jimmy’s “most evil version”, still has his morality in a grey area, not full on evil like the drug lords like Lalo or Walter White.
I think its a huge credit to the writers that people are so torn on this. You can understand how each character justifies their choices and how their motivations conflict
I love these deep dive videos. I didn’t remember that Howard referred to Jimmy as Gollum. Howard doesn’t strike me as a LOTR guy lol. It would be interesting if as a kid Howard was a meganerd.
Bro! You knocked it out the park AGAIN! Nailed it by pointing out at the end how the writers cut the shine off of Jimmy and Kim gradually! They are certainly Brilliant, Flawed and now not really likable. Thanks for making me Love this show even more with your commentary! 👌🏾💥💯
Kim attacking Howard after Chuck's death is perfectly understandable. The main thing that makes Kim mad at Howard is his lack of empathy. As far as Howard knows, Jimmy simply lost his brother. Jimmy, like any other person, has his own way of coping with this loss and Howard basically nukes that coping process by talking about the possible suicide. It's disrespectful to someone's emotional space, you shouldn't try and steer the way someone is grieving a loss. Even if you think you're doing the right thing, because it's not up to you or about you right now. Howard deciding on his own that sharing this very sensitive information is more important than the emotional needs of Jimmy is already very inconsiderate. Doing it on the day of the funeral is mind-boggling.
my friend and I are watching this a 3rd time ahead of the final episodes. We noticed that Howard might have a problematic use of alcohol. He's shown drinking hard liquor in the middle of the day sometimes, but like the problems he has with his wife it's something the audience knows but Kim and Jimmy wouldn't. Only the audience knows that Chuck was a suicide, and yes it's horrible to Howard to have verbalized his suspicion especially right after the funeral, but we wondered if he'd had a couple of drinks before saying that. It's still a terrible thing to say but perhaps it was more easily brushed off if they knew. If that's the case it's yet another misunderstanding/something that escalates on this show, that leads to unintended bad consequences.
Framing it that way treats Howard like an outsider with a minimal connection to the deceased. That's not the case. Howard lost a hugely important figure in his life too. Howard lost a life long friend and mentor who was like a second father to him. And conversely it shows a great lack of empathy not acknowledge that. Also I'm sure Howard knew that Jimmy had already considered the possibility of suicide. I'm sure he just wanted to have the truth heard and accept whatever came of telling it. And Jimmy used it to wound him further.
Naah still not enough reason to het what he got I mean that much elaborate plan to destroy a man ,the lengths theybwent to get the smallest step done 🤦♂️ Kim broke bad wag harder than Walter White ever did
Whenever someone says IRL: "I was only harder on you because...insert justification," what they're really saying is: "I discriminated against you because of my own emotions and biases." It's actually very common.
21:07 - I never noticed the contrast before with this point. Chuck once had to bail Jimmy out of jail time on the condition that Jimmy turn his life around and give up his life of crime. Here, Jimmy had the opportunity to lock Chuck up on the hope that Chuck would eventually turn his life around and return to his dedication to the law, but chose not to do it.
What pissed me off is that Chuck allegedly 'wanted Jimmy to turn his life around' but when Jimmy does just that and passes the bar, he goes to extra lengths to shut him down. He also almost encourages his old ways *"Slipping Jimmy I could deal with"* *"You're not a lawyer"* etc. Imagine if Chuck actually supported his career, gave him the HHM job and the sandpiper case. Doubt any of this would have happened.
@@seasonalserotonin2559 agreed. Chuck was a true piece of sh!t who managed to get caught at his own sick game by accidentally getting Jimmy to outgrow being his scapegoat.
@@jessetheanimenerd3304 It's possible. But he was good at it nonetheless. What we saw at D&M was more self sabotage than anything else; something which Jimmy might have not done with the right support. And all this happened after the rejection at HHM in tandem with the vilification from his brother. That doesn't help. When one is constantly told you're a certain way never to change, some tend to embrace it.
Howard didn't deserve a damn thing that happened to him. His worst crime was coming off as a bit of a douche at times but he's probably the most morally intact character in the entire Breaking Bad universe. Not to mention Howard is the only character we know of that's gone to therapy. He wasn't perfect but even he knew that and tried to better himself. His last words were going to be "There's really no need to hurt them." Even when his last moments were spent chastising the two people who had hurt him the most, he still tried to plead for their lives
Thanks KiWi, excellent breakdown. Howard was indeed a decent enough guy. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time. The Howard - Chuck dynamic was rather odd. The Howard - Jimmy - Kimmy relationship was a train wreck waiting to happen. Love the complex relationships in this series. Just thought of that flashback to Chuck and Jimmy’s mom’s dying. Jimmy went to get something to eat, mom came out of her coma for a second before she died and said ‘Jimmy’, and of course Chuck had to save face and lie. Brotherly love.😍
Well Done Kiwi! Keep up the great work. This is completely off subject but I can't believe Kim (Rhea Seehorn) turned 50 last month! Take care man. Looking forward to your next vid.
You are wrong about the check. It was 14 grand and that is too much for a “gesture”. She just didn’t want to feel like she owed him. Great analysis overall though. You always catch details I miss.
She asked howard if it was 4000, and he said 5. in episode 406 when jimmy tells howard he's a shitty lawyer jimmy picks up the cheque for 5000 saying "there's a problem that 5000 can solve."
On the silver spoon: When Howard cites that he had everything handed to him, it may certainly speak to the character's insecurity, but I have also seen that sort of class resentment among a lot of BCS fans.
I really feel it's Kim that drives this last thing, Jimmy didn't really seem all that interested in pursuing it this time, but this time she was the one to pursue it like he had for so long in the past.
Literally everyone watching the last season: "I can't believe they killed off Howard like this! He was innocent in all of this and deserved better! I sympathize with him more than any character!" Kiwi: "I should jump in to defend Howard".
I think Howard always genuinely liked and respected Jimmy and I think Howard would've hired Jimmy as soon as he passed the bar if not for Chuck. Howard wasn't a good lawyer but he was a good business man and he saw the potential in having Jimmy on board
There's absolutely nothing that suggests Howard wasn't a good lawyer as Kim never disputes Howard's claims of acting as a mentor for her. Something I don't think she would let stand if she had no respect for his acumen within his profession. He also has the respect of Cliff Maine and Chuck in this regard. He may not be the legal genius that Chuck is but we've been shown that pretty much no one is.
The doc review thing was all Howard. Chuck actually asked him in the end if Kim was out of the doghouse after landing them Mesa Verde, and he more or less said no. For all the virtues Howard may have, one huge personal flaw of his is, he's obsessed with his image. That's why he comes off such a pompous prick to begin with. Kim embarrassed him, and that he couldn't forgive.
Howard’s biggest screwup was enabling Chuck’s abuse of Jimmy. Such a minor issue but it caused him to become a scapegoat for everything he complacently let Chuck get away with and ultimately be blamed for it
They're didn't hates Howard, they just was like cats and dogs, their relationship was still friendly for me, when Howard was shot by lalo they react like if a friend of them was dead The relation between Nacho and Hector was really bad, pure hatred
Strange that the show ends with Kim "doin the right thing", when Kim is the sole person who benefitted the most from Jimmy being Jimmy. She benefitted when Jimmy swindled his brother. In a huge way. She landed Mesa Verde while Jimmy was struggling to make money with small time cons. She got off Scott free and walked away from the law. Jimmy kept hustling, leading him to Walt. Kim ran away to florida, and then criticized Jimmy for what he did, and went and ratted herself and Jimmy out, Kim put herself in danger with the law, and Jimmy sacrificed himself to guarantee her safety. Seems, in the end, that Jimmy enabled Kim to live out her wildest dreams and exploits and Jimmy was the only one that paid for their exploits. Kim is rivalled only by Gus and Walt in the villain hierarchy of the Breaking Bad universe.
I think the thing that kind of made it obvious what the point was, was when one of Kim’s coworkers from Mesa Verde ate lunch with her and told Kim how she admired her for “sticking up for the little guy.” It seems like Jimmy and Kim try to be good people by sticking up for poor/disadvantaged people, and Howard was anything but that, even though he was a great person, he did obviously get some help from his dad.
You spend a little time explaining the relationship Howard had with Chuck but I think there's a lot more to be said there - it clearly goes deep! Every time Howard speaks of Chuck it is with great admiration, calling him "the best legal mind I have ever known" multiple times. He clearly looked up to him and likely even saw him as his moral compass. To him, Chuck, the experienced friend of his father was likely almost a substitute for his father and through gaining his approval he likely felt he was on the right path. Chuck craved to be admired and this at the time innocent impressionable child craved to have someone to look up to so, of course, they must have latched onto each other. Jimmy is the main character so we are inclined to think of his motivations and reasons for doing things but it is only fair that we extend the same curtesy to Jimmy's biggest victim. So I do not agree with your analysis the section Jimmy confronts Howard. I certainly wouldn't call Howard's behavior inexcusable, considering that at this point Jimmy has already been highly combative towards him. Sure, Howard might be able to understand why Jimmy feels the way he feels and acts the way he acts but I can understand why Howard would develop some resentments towards Jimmy. Yes, he said some mean things but he has spent his life admiring the person who hates Jimmy the most. It is easy to see how his ideas of Jimmy would be shaped by his interactions with Chuck and how a lot of Jimmy's actions up to this point fit the perspective Howard has developed based on Chuck's words. Howard believes his own words to be true and aims to be honest with Jimmy. I do not think this is an unfair way to act and certainly not unfair enough to warrant breaking his entire reputation over it.
4:37: The earliest episode that I can think of that makes it unambiguously clear that Jimmy is not supposed to be likeable was back in season 3 when he set elderly women against each other to get his Sandpiper settlement money.
I think the references to DOC REVIEW are going to show Kim found some discrepancies in MADRIGAL accounting, according to the Hotel Room meeting with Gus, Lydia and PETER the GERMAN. "That WOMAN almost found out."
I personally understand why some people are on Howard's side and I think that the way in which he was dealt with by Jimmy and Kim was awful but looking in retrospective Howard was always a coward, he never stood up to Chuck, he was always too afraid to change the status quo even knowing that things were not OK, it's like Kim said in earlier seasons Howard it's the kind of rich guy that knows something is wrong but doesn't do anything about it and he later try to make it up by donating to some charity and then feel good about it (I don't remember the exact quote but that's basically it)
Except that what Howard did for Chuck is identical to what Jimmy is doing for Kim. Both of them chose to be the latter’s puppets (knowing that the latter did the bad things).
It’s also quite reflective of Jimmys relationship with Kim too. If Kim wants to do something (like “mess” with Howard) Jimmy just goes along with it as to not upset the status quo. Jimmy also resents Howard because of the fact that he remind him of himself, always manipulated by a stronger character.
@@taylorhammon4030 An as always, both Jimmy and Howard always took the blames for what their respective partners did. Chuck took the morals as the legend of the law world and “the second coming of Clarence Darrow” while Howard took the blames for following Chuck’s orders. Same as Kimmy, she took the morals. Viola saw her as a hero who made her feels better about the law. Kevin and Rich love her professionalism. Chuck viewed her as a “fine woman”. Meanwhile, Jimmy had to (willingly and foolishly) take the blames for every one of her plans, from destroying the 1216 evidence, to the Huell thing, to the whole Mesa Verde thing and the whole Howard thing. I hope Jimmy will grow a spine and stand up for himself. Like seriously, why chose to be condemned as a bad guy all the time just to protect one woman who is not so moral?
I think you're being too generous letting Howard off the hook, blaming it all on Chuck. Howard still had to go along with all of it in order to blackball Jimmy.
This is really a great video! I always wondered why Jimmy and Kim did what they did to poor Howard in the last season and couldn't figure out why and that really bothers me a lot. Your analysis explains a lot about why they hate Howard because Jimmy can't process Chuck's death well like Howard did. Great job
Howard has been extremely good to Jimmy McGill. When Jimmy expressed interest in working at HMM, he was not opposed to it. It was Charles McGill's decision to not hire Jimmy at HMM. And Charles used Howard to decline hiring Jimmy, so Charles would not look like the bad guy. But who can blame Charles? Charles was not wrong when he said that Jimmy being a lawyer would be a dangerous.
I think a lot of the reason Jimmy became Saul was because of Chuck. Chuck never believed in Jimmy and very often people become the very thing that those closest to them see them as. If your own brother or other family sees you in a certain way eventually you start believing it yourself. If Chuck had believed in Jimmy and supported him more I think things may have turned out different. That in no way removes responsibility from Jimmy, he's a grown man, but still.
Chuck’s treatment of Jimmy is an epitome of how the society treats ex-convicts or recovering addicts. These people barely got any chances to redeem themselves thanks to the prejudice of those “good people” on their past criminal records. They got a job thousand times harder than those who never have a history, Their rejection made them relapse and go back to their bad behaviors again…just like how Jimmy became Saul because Chuck and the establishment kept rejecting him. Also, what a recovering addict need the most is the support from the family. Chuck didn’t give Jimmy any support (he did the opposite, betraying and sabotaging Jimmy’s career). The closest thing he did was giving a job in a mailroom but with a reason is to make sure Jimmy will never get to thrive in his career while Chuck himself is still on top. The worst part is how he insulted Jimmy that Jimmy took an “easy” path by learning from American Samoa. Jimmy learned from that place online because he never got any money for respectable law school like what Howard and Kim got from Chuck, and Jimmy studied law while having to work full time in the mailroom so when Chuck was asleep, Jimmy was studying.
@@nont18411 Chuck was a miserable brother, but Jimmy wasn't homeless on the streets. He was gainfully employed with secure housing. I'm not sure if you noticed, but a recurring theme in the show is the theme of people wanting 'More' and the consequences trying to get it. Jimmy scams because he wants easy money. Kim grinds away at the law because she wants more from life. Nacho gets trapped under Gus because he's running side businesses and he doesn't want the cartel to find out. Gus ends up in a silent war with the Salamancas because he wants to have his own massive meth operation. Mike gets his son killed because he turns to becoming a corrupt cop. The show does an excellent job with showing the perils of greed.
How could you not see that calling him Charlie Hustle was a backhand to him for the fact he was a street hustler named slippin jimmy, always working a hustle angle. Its how he ended up there. You could see that jimmy knew it.
On the elder Hamlin: Look at what Howard's skills and and what Chuck's are. Chuck is the legal mind, Howard is the people person, the salesman. While we never met Howard's dad, we can guess that the apple didn't fall far from the tree. Other than being Chuck's partner and Howard's dad, all we know is he spent time on the golf course. Why? What do lawyers do on golf courses? They make deals. They bring in clients. My guess is that partnership worked so well because Hamlin and Chuck complemented each other. Chuck was brilliant legally but socially is stiff and a bit arrogant. Left to his own devices he would probably have had a very small client base. Hamlin likely was the inferior lawyer but the one who could sell Chuck's talent. They needed each other. Howard and Jimmy probably could have had a similarly fruitful relationship.
Does that mean Jimmy is the better lawyer? I would think he would be the one to sell, but you said Howard mustnt have fallen far from the tree, so he must be the sales person.
I think we're reading too much into Jimmy's assessment of Howard as a shitty lawyer but terrific salesman. Howard actually advised Chuck not to take the stand and if he hadn't all Jimmy's plans in Chicanery would've been moot. Legal Eagle actually said that this bit of advice is something that paints Howard as a savvy and experienced trial lawyer. So while he may not be Chuck level legal genius. The show pretty much hammers in the idea that no one really is. Even with Jimmy's plan working his bar license was suspended still one in the legal W column for Chuck.
@@adamantiiispencespence4012 Jimmy may have been exaggerating his failings but was dead on with his strengths. He was trying to push Howard out of his stupor, and calling him a shitty lawyer certainly provoked a response.
@@thorthewolf8801 We see Jimmy/Saul is a pretty superior lawyer in both BB and BCS. He works magic, but he does it more through extralegal maneuvers. He beat Chuck and Howard in court, but needed a bit of "chicanery" to do it. Stunts like using a pickpocket to plant the battery would have likely gotten a mistrial and a reprimand in an actual court rather than a bar hearing.
That final monologue of hamlin was pure hamlin (good thing they added that boxing scene) and felt almost like too much of a mouth piece for the writers, he hit the nail on the head on so many themes and character motivations that were always implied and never stated. During this argument I was like (damn are we really going to just have a discussion on character and theme of the show now? Something felt off.) And then lalo walked in. I do hope episode 8 (after the pre theme scene) starts 2 seconds after episode 7 ended in the apartment. I feel like the scene was cut right in the middle.
Jimmy and Kim hate Howard for the simple reason that he represents everything they resent about the system. Nepotism. Privilege. Special Treatment. Howard got ahead in life not because he's a particularly good lawyer but because he knew the right people at the right time. He was born into wealth thanks to his father and mentored by the man who was arguably one of the greatest legal minds in the United States. Howard literally had everything going for him. Meanwhile, Jimmy couldn't even get his brother to believe in his potential after he passed the bar exam and put together a class action lawsuit. He arguably showed far more potential as a lawyer than Howard ever did and yet was held back because of everyone's assumptions about him. No matter how hard Jimmy tries, he'll never be a respected lawyer and he'll never get Chuck's respect . . . but Howard gets it automatically. As for Kim, she got into the law specifically to help the little guy. Every day people. She only got Mesa Verde to get out of doc review and once she had it she realized it's not for her. She doesn't like helping privileged people add to their millions. She would rather help the people who actually need help. That's why she sticks with Jimmy so much: because she recognizes how much the system punches down on him. Howard is already a product of privilege and nepotism: what good does it do anyone to help him? So when looked at it like that, it's not hard to see why they thought of framing Howard as some twisted form of justice. Does he hate that everyone sees him as something he's not? Now he knows how Jimmy feels. Does he hate being unfairly denied bigger opportunities? Now he knows how Kim feels. What they failed to recognize is that just because Howard is privileged that doesn't mean he's just another stuffy black suit needing to be taught a lesson in humility. He was never actually full of himself. He RECOGNIZED his privilege and absolutely believed in passing it down. That's why he paid off Kim's debt for her and why he wanted to make amends with Jimmy. And he was never greedy. He literally put themself in enormous debt to get Chuck out without endangering the firm. He put his own skin on the line to do what's right and never got a thank you. Howard may be a product of an unfair system but that NEVER made him the enemy. Jimmy and Kim failed to recognize that.
@Tombo Toons Jimmy and Kim represent to me people who constantly overgenralize groups as rich and privelaged people and think if they are in that category, they are automatically bad and lesser than and everybody not in that category is a saint and not part of the problem
I partially disagree that Howard supported Chuck with his illness for genuine love and support because HHM's reputation would've suffered if Chuck were to leave.
I think it’s that classic psychosis that most narcissistic people have wherein if they create a narrative about another person and tell themselves it’s true then they can validate their actions against someone even though they might be horrendous etc. That’s just been my experience in life dealing with people like this in my own life and I think kim and Jimmy are struggling as kiwi mentioned and tend to blame others instead of themselves. It was the perfect storm and poor Howard got caught up in “storm Kim & jimmy” years ago! 🙌🏻🥝🙌🏻
Isn’t it amazing that a constant abuse from a narcissist (Chuck) ended up breeding two more narcissists (Jimmy and Kimmy). It’s an endless vicious cycle of abuse.
@@nont18411 Jimmy is an adult, not some kid with no agency. He was a scammer ever since he was a kid, always looking for ways to use other people to his advantage. Chuck saw that and honestly, he should've let him spend time in jail. People defend him because he's likable but when you step back, you realize he's a horrible person who has negatively affected everyone around him
Howard is the only person that truly believed that even with all his flaws, even with knowing what a "square peg" he turned out to be at Davis and Maine, even after EVERYTHING Jimmy is and always was, Howard believed in Jimmy's abilities as a lawyer, believed he didn't need to change, he belonged at HHM just as he was. Warts and all, Jimmy was a hard worker, a good lawyer, and he believed from season 1, all the way through throwing bowling balls at his car, right up until confronting him about it at the court house and being chased out like a crazed maniac, that Jimmy belonged at HHM and would have done just fine there. I don't hear anyone talk about this enough.
Howard easily had th second best character development through the wholw series. Hes not just used a tool for chuck to buffer against jimmy and throw him off his scent and makes us think that hes the jerk in Jimmy's way. But ultimately shows the true character of Jimmy and Kim in regards to their own sociopathy.
I gotta disagree with Kim being wrong in season 4 after Chucks death. Howard deserved all that fire he got from Kim. The day of chucks funeral you’re going to tell Jimmy that Chuck killed himself? I agree with Kim 100% that Howard did it to unload his guilt onto Jimmy because deep down Hamlin knows forcing Chuck out of HHM was the final straw that made him kill himself. Why didn’t he tell Rebecca if he wanted to make it known Chuck was suffering? That was a complete asshole move from Hamlin. If he really cared about Jimmy’s feelings after chucks death he would’ve kept that to himself. Telling Jimmy that Chuck committed suicide made Jimmy feel like he was responsible for it. Then Howard says it’s his fault it happened thinking Jimmy will be like ooo no it’s not your fault Howard. I loved the burn Jimmy gives with saying “well that’s your cross to bear”. Howard was completely wrong for doing that.
In the end, I think Chuck had good reason to worry Jimmy might get involved with some underhanded chicanery that damaged the public’s perception of HHM. Did he lift a finger to help his brother get started somewhere else? No
Honestly this newest season has just reaffirmed how sad of a man chuck was, even if the choices Kim, jimmy and Howard made were still their own, one sad old man’s sheer amount of spite was enough to irreparably damage the relationships between the only people that cared about him.
I said this on Pete's channel can you imagine if they found Howard had a recording device in his pocket that would be a crazy call back to Chuck and if you notice Jimmy nor Kim neither one either deny or admit their guilt so I think that's pretty crazy
When you lay it all out on the table like this, it makes Kim and Jimmy's nasty and vengeful behavior toward Howard less uncalled for... Also Its frightening how quickly everyone has aged across the seasons...
A lot of Howard's mea culpas sound like the Nuremberg trials; hey I was just following orders. We weren't given any choice. "Jimmy, if I had it _MY_ way, it never would have gone this way..." _gosh I'm powerless in my position as #2 at the firm, arguably with a stronger partner position having clearly held the firm together for the time before BCS began..._ I mean, please. You can't claim to be remorseful, and then also claim to be a victim of circumstance in the same breath. It's what makes Howard such a tragic figure. He wants to practice law. Uphold the "morals of the state." He wants to be what he perceives to be "Good." The problem is he finds himself betraying his values, time and again in deference to people he views as more powerful than himself, or actions he defends not personally, but for what he is told is "the good of the firm." He goes the easy way, the safe way, instead of the right way. And he is fully aware that he is betraying himself, and so he hates himself, so he tries harder to be the better person. The perfect person. I mean, you don't offer to hire the brother of the senior partner who never wanted him to work at the firm, ESPECIALLY after that senior partner killed himself after breaking down in court. I mean, that's just not an appropriate gesture, at all. But it's the "nice" thing, now that he can. This is why Howard is not a sympathetic character as a victim of the "Goodman's" hijinks/nefarious plan. He's just not sympathetic, but he wants to be while having no idea how to do so, and it winds up being just pathetic. He is tragic. Which is why his ending was inevitable.
When I saw Howard's head blown out my heart drop it was almost as real as seeing a real person pass on it actually scared me this was weirdly the most impactfull death in the breaking bad universe idk why
I agree. Nacho and Howard, completely different people, but both complicated humans, like all of us, met their demise so shockingly and suddenly. That fact that we care so strongly about these imperfect, ancillary characters is testament to the writing staff of this series.
I too have been assuming up to this point that Howard's dad (Hamlin Sr.) is dead - but what if he's not: what if he's the upcoming additional new character that Bob Odenkirk mentioned recently?
Possible, but unlikely. I don't know what Howard's age is, but he is a grey haired fellow. I am guessing he is at least 55 and his Dad is at least 75, but could be as old as mid-90's. So it's unlikely, but it's always possible.
@@Maw0 ... I have always assumed that Howard is blond not grey!! I think he is probably early 50s so it is very possible that his father could be alive and aged anywhere from early 70s onwards!
@@LouHillierPsych Agreed - and how cool of a payoff would it be to have been mentioning a character for six seasons before they finally introduce him, ya know?
Imagine in the next episode there is a loophole in the Sandpiper case that results in it being dismissed and no one, including Jimmy and Kim, get a single dollar of settlement
Howard was definitely correct when he said that Chuck really knew Jimmy - someone who would never change and just continually disappoint those around him. Jimmy would never have been a good fit for HHM just as he wasn’t the type of lawyer that Davis & Main required.
I disagree. Jimmy as much of his Slipping Jimmy era side of him he still had on the earlier seasons he was trying to change for the better specially because of Chuck till he found out the truth. It was Chuck's jealousy of him always being his parents favorite and being saved by them that got resentment over Jimmy. It formed a toxic permanent view of Jimmy that Chuck had and ended up breaking him more and making him just stay on his antics rather than try to change for the better
I think this was one of several problems with the writing. It doesn’t make sense that both Kim and jimmy would risk everything they are building to obsess over Howard. They know Chuck was Jimmy’s biggest problem, so risking disbarment and jail, just to bring Howard down was pointless. Neither benefit from it.
Jimmy and Kim fought Howard for the simple fact that they’re fighting who they were. They each turned a corner following aspirations at HMM and they’re now trying to define themselves as being against what Howard represents. Sure, Howard’s been a dick to them on and off, but the particulars outlined here don’t really matter, because nothing that he’s done warrants how they treated him. And I think it’s the stress that Lalo has brought into their life that turns their need to hurt someone else up to eleven. Lalo has made them feel powerless, so they yearn to take down someone powerful. And now with Howard gone they’re going to turn that hate around into the direction that truly it, towards Lalo. My guess is that would be that Kim kills Lalo and she goes on the run - not from the police, but from the cartel. Before she goes, she tells Jimmy that they’ll meet again at a specific time and place, and that’s where Gene is going.
The show runners did a great job at slowly changing our perception of poor Howie.
Howie! 😂
I still think he was a asshole!
Poor Howie wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire. He used an old lady as a prop, knowing she's be dead by the time he settled. His last day on Earth.
I think I'm gonna rewatch because it seems so genius
@@desireandfire Good idea.
Howard was probably my favorite character after Mike. In the end, he lost most of his reputation, his marriage, never got closure on why Jimmy and Kim did what they did and got popped by Lalo for just being there - trying to confront them both. Man he didn't deserve going out like that. Look how they massacred my boy 😢
Exactly. He was one of the only characters actually improving as the seasons went on, while everyone else was making increasingly worse decisions.
He was not trying to comfort them, but to confront them both in a non-aggressive manner which is expected.
My favorite Howard quote is “you’ve mistaken my kindness for weakness.”
The thing is Howard had no clue, even Bill Oakley and Jimmy's coworkers at the courthouse knew he was playing with unsavory characters and learned to stay away but Howard was so completely removed from Jimmy's criminal activities that he just walked into his death.
Howard was the mirror of Hank in BB. They are the straight, innocent characters acting as regular plot antagonists to Walt/Saul. No matter who you are rooting for when watching the shows, their deaths are devastating to viewer and to Walt/Saul.
Howard was a good man at the wrong time in the wrong place
Yup
Like hank
Meanwhile Walter was a bad man who was always at the right time and place and had the intelligence to make the most of it .
Power doesn't corrupt, it only reveals. Walter was always pety about how he was scrued over in the past by his former partner and former lover and he never let go .
@@zeo4481
He wasn't screwed by Gretchen and company. Vince Gilligan revealed that Walt left Gretchen because he was insecure about the wealth that Gretchen's family had and how he would always be in their shadow.
It gets overlooked a lot, I think because Jimmy and Kim never say out loud why they do things, but all of this is planned in the hotel room after they literally have been hiding out from lalo in fear for their lives, Jimmy has PTSD still from the desert that was only like a day or two before, and Kim was traumatized from that as well. It’s a huge coping mechanism for these two who don’t process their emotions. They are trying to make each other feel better. It’s also easier for Kim to hyper focus on a perceived slight from Howard than confront the fact that Howard was more than right about Jimmy being a danger to her. He has literally brought a killer into her life! And almost got them killed. Some people drink, these two scam to feel better. Mostly they did Howard was because he was convenient, and they knew him well. They are all almost like siblings.
I agree, and think that has A LOT to do with it. The underlying resentment is mostly about their own inability to process their guilt/feelings over Chuck's death, so they project it on to Howard. Since a lot of people wont pick up on this, they look for more overt reasons.
About the Lalo thing, I think it speaks more about Slippin’ Kimmy than Slippin’ Jimmy.
Because, you said that Kim chose to target Howard because she felt resentful about how Jimmy brought a murderer into her life, right? Well, there were at least THREE TIMES that the solutions walked right in front of her face.
1. 5x10. Jimmy wanted to divorce her “for her own good” but she didn’t let him go. Instead, she came up with the Howard plan during dinner and they ended up having sex as usual (Side note: This scene showed the first sign of Kim’s mentality of “Nobody can hurt Jimmy, except for me.” which she will do these things A LOT in season 6. She felt revolted in the beginning of the episode when Jimmy (with a sunburn) said that he would like to have a couple massage. She didn’t like the idea of someone else possibly hurting Jimmy but she ended up having sex with him, knowing that he hadn’t eat for 4 full days before the dinner they just had and was severely dehydrated. I’m pretty sure that someone in that condition needs to be sleeping in a hospital, not engaging in any sexual activity.)
2. DA Suzanne chose to talk to her about Lalo stuff because like everyone else, she believed that Kim will be easier to reason with than Jimmy. She even told Kim that she will offer Jimmy’s protection from the cartel in case he ratted on Lalo. Kim barely listened to what she said because she was too busy being furious at Suzanne for calling Jimmy a “scumbag”. When Jimmy came back home, Kim told him everything (except the fact that Suzanne will offer him protection if he ratted) and kind of half-suggesting half-threatening him that he had to make a choice either being the friend of the cartel or a rat.
3. Mike told Kim that his men were protecting Jimmy and Kim. If she told Jimmy about this, Jimmy might have a conversation with Mike about whether he should rat on Lalo or not and how far Mike will be willing to protect them. Jimmy might also canceled the whole Howard scam and put their own safety as his first priority. We all know what choice she made and it ended up putting her and Jimmy in the greater danger than ever.
Yep. Howard confronted Kim about Jimmy at the wrong time. Not only has Jimmy worked through a lot of his issues at that point following the events of Bag Man, but Kim was in no position to hear what he had to say. She was still in protective wife mode, and was going to strike back for the perceived attack.
I think Kim's criminal past is something no one knows about. Jimmy kind of brought it back out of her and she ran with it. The scene with her shoplifting as a kid and having her mom help her get away with it was a hint to that.
I would not be surprised to see Kim out-Jimmy Jimmy. Sandpiper money is coming.
Jimmy and Kim's relationship is really weird. Almost cold.
I agree, I think both Kim and Jimmy’s judgement was impaired by their trauma and so they displaced their fear and feelings of helplessness onto Howard because he was a safer target than Lalo and the Cartel. Classic Freudian defense mechanism of displacement- otherwise why go to such great lengths to bring Howard down even when, at least in Kim’s case she was given opportunity to have her pro-bono practice without the Sandpiper settlement money? I also agree that scamming is their go-to coping strategy, as you said.
What they did with Howard towards the end was fantastic. He wasn't just duped. He was smart but they just figured out a way to beat him that wouldn't allow him to take them down. And in the end, he is there so you see how terrible Jimmy and Kim have become.
i mean, they didn't WANT lalo there. saul still thought he was dead before he walked in.
if not for lalo, howard would absolutely be able to defeat kim and saul, and the story of breaking bad would have been VERY different. that and, we know from BB that saul is terrified of lalo and the saul/jimmy we know in bcs would never willingly co-operate with lalo on anything. sure saul and kim were doing something horrific to howard but they didn't want him dead, they WANTED him back on his feet. it's like how howard said in s6e5. "all roads lead back to you. its psych 101. you WANT to be caught." i do think howards right, at least when jimmy thinks lalos dead and that with kims help he can get out of whatever trouble he'd land in.
lalo is the x-factor, the thing that keeps saul's cons from going off the deep end in BB, especially since he seems to think lalo is alive through BB (even if lalo dies in the 2nd half of s6 if it doesnt happen before jimmys eyes he likely wont believe it, since he's seen lalo effectively rise from the dead once before).
they didnt want howard dead. the coke allegations may have hurt his credibility but now that he was wise to the PI con he could have gotten a real one and either caught jimmy and kim, putting them away and repairing his reputation and relationship with casamiro, schweikart and cliff main, or pressured them into not messing with howard further. he'd have won eitherway, and kim & saul HAD to have known that that would have been the endgame, unless they blew the 2 mil from sandpiper on something even bigger. but now he's dead, so oh well.
Yup
Facts
This chicanery must end. After the Howard plan and Irene, people still think Kim and Jimmy are the good guys what a sick joke. HE DEFECATED TROUGH A SUN ROOF
That is what always happens when the powerful refuse to listen. They are being treated with contempt like the people in American are being treated now. it is dangerous to treat people with contempt. Some, only a small number will extract and terrible revenge.
Patrick Fabian nails the part of Howard in my opinion. He is a great actor. He really captures the rigid lawyer that seems to uptight enjoy life at times.
I blame Kim more than saul for Howard's death. She's the one who really pushed to take him down, saul tossed the idea around and just seemed like he wanted to screw with him. But Kim wanted to end his career, Howard was a genuine nice guy who took his position seriously and always wanted to be professional, even if he did come across serious at times. He cared about his career and always tried to do the right thing and now unfortunately being at the wrong place at the wrong time and Jimmy and Kim got him killed
Jimmy also tried to back out of the "prank" but Kim insisted that they follow through and diverted her trip to help make sure it happened.
Howard dying is literally only Lalo's fault
True although he did enable her. He could have told her no when she first brought it up, and I think had he not agreed to the plan, she wouldn’t have gone through with it.
I agree, and I like Kim as a character because of it. I felt like Kim has for a long time been revolving around Jimmy and she wasn't a full character until Mesa Verde happened. The consequence of Howard's death is inevitably going to develop Kim in such a bold way if Kim owns up to what she did.
Kim basically just held on to her irrational hatred of him due to her demotion into the mail room which she never believed was anyones decision beyond Howard’s jimmy mostly wanted to fuck with him because he felt guilty about inadvertently leading his brother to suicide and deflected it all on him
I cried after Howard died. He didn't deserve to be tossed in a hole never to be found 😭😭 Truly amazing writing.
you know maybe after the lab exploded and the cops found it later,maybe they will find the remains of Lalo and Howard?
@@Johnnycpublic
They did say they found two bodies that were burned beyond recognition. Maybe they were Lalo and Howard's bodies.
@@irvinmorales1409 I think those were probably the 2 guys Walt killed when he got Jesse after killing Gus
@AliciaM5555 What? Maybe you responded to the wrong comment. This thread is about Howard Hamlin.
Chuck was likely the managing partner (at least on paper) until his death. The firm was started by Howard's dad and Chuck. That's another reason why he probably deferred to Chuck, even when he would have gone a different way. After Chuck passed, Howard had all of the power and one of the first things he did with it is offer Jimmy a job. There's no doubt about it: Chuck was a crappy brother, especially to his brother who served him as caregiver and nurse maid.
Chuck was the puppet master who had Howard do all the dirty work. Kim is the puppet master who has Jimmy shoulder all of the criminal exposure.
Bro Kim was way better than Skylar at least
@@bingingbinging8597 kim is way worse than skyler. Skyler was just a mom who had to deal with her husband/ drug kingpin putting their family in mortal danger.
@@bingingbinging8597
Nah, Skylar actually tried to put an end to Walt's criminal activity or at least distance herself and her children from Walter.
Kim made Jimmy's toxic behavior even worse.
@@bendavis6457 Walt was selling drugs to junkies he didn’t wrong Skyler in any way yet she started treating him like he is her personal enemy
Kim was a much better wife because even though she enabled Jimmy she never gave him shit for things that she herself encouraged him to do
@@bingingbinging8597 Kim is way “more likable” than Skyler.
More likable doesn’t mean that she’s better.
Poor Howard Hamlin he didnt deserve none of this
But he was bad sometimes
He was bad but not to the point of dying for it.
@@davidniznan6773 Howard has ; or had a business to protect.
@@davidniznan6773 I mean he chose to confront J&K in their apartment and if he never went to confront them he wouldn’t have been in that situation
@@Kahooni I mean he wouldn't never put in a situation to confront them in the first place if they left him alone and didnt try to sabotage his entire career.
The murder of Howard really surprised me and caught me off guard completely! I am so sorry that this fabulous series is leaving after the second half of season seven. 😭
how suprising
Season 6* lol
Yea bro I never thought snape would kill him too right after quick scoping dumpledore
you look like rdr2 uncle with out a big beard
The #1 Emotion Driving All Narcissists is Vengence. Narcissists are Entitled, Explpoititive and lacking in Empathy and Shame. They have unrealistic expectations that lead to resentments that lead to the desire for vengence.
THAT's why they did what they did to Howard. They are a man/woman portrait of two people who surrendered body and soul to the potential narcissism in us all.
I also gotta say: Kim’s finger-gun scene is easily the most terrifying scene of this entire show 🤣 Just like Jimmy, the audience is suddenly completely aware that a monster has been officially created. Makes you wonder even more what her role might be in BB. That moment almost vaguely confirms if she really is the puppeteer of Saul Goodman.
And for like a split second after I saw that I was like "I wonder if he'll actually be shot"
Turns out to be some interesting foreshadowing too
Howard is the scapegoat for both Jimmy and Kim.
Jimmy uses Howard as a target for his anger and guilt about Chucks death. Instead of grieving, he’s mad at Howard. Instead of being angry at himself, he’s angry at Howard.
Kim uses Howard to avoid her anger too, particularly her anger towards Jimmy. She feels some amount of guilt for Chucks death and she definitely feels angry at/ashamed of that “slippin” part of herself, and hating Howard helps with those feelings too, but primarily (especially in recent seasons), she uses him to let out her anger at Jimmy. Like at 36:24 what she says about Howard is basically word for word how she must feel about Jimmy (and from the look on jimmys face, he knows it on some level too). She loves Jimmy and doesn’t know how to simultaneously hold all this anger towards him, so she hates Howard instead.
Great comment! In fact, the best one I've read so far. On target and to the point.
Jimmy and Kim are a study of Scapegoating Narcissists.
The #1 Emotion Driving All Narcissists is Vengence. Narcissists are Entitled, Exploititive and lacking in Empathy and Shame. They have unrealistic expectations that lead to resentments that lead to the desire for vengence (and the corresponding need to scapegoat). THAT's why they did what they did to Howard. They are a portrait of those who surrender body and soul to the potential narcissist in us all. That's why both have had such a chillling effect on some viewers.
yep just makes kim as loathsome as you can get, Saul was just trying to cope with the death of a family member, while Kim is just a vindictive bitch who takes all her issues and pins them in a guy who wants nothing but to be on top terms with the both of them, because it's easier than confronting her hubby who could do No wrong.
FUCK I hate Kim, fans like to compare her to Walt but Walt had charisma and Kim has absolutely none of that she's a bore every time she's onscreen
Howard was the best person across the BB/BCS universe. He had morals, ethics, was caring, genuinely wanted to help others. He didn't deserve anything that came his way and everyone in his life took hot steaming shits on him constantly.
I'm just happy the truth of Howard's awful demise came out, but still a little sad he's likely to remain under the superlab for long long time.
Elliot and Gretchen, Brock, Andrea, Walt Jr.
Nacho's dad is still definetly the best
If Lalo had smoked Chuck, the entire theater would have broke out in applause.
Yes, absolutely. I applauded when he actually died though …
Not me. I don't think he deserved death. I think him and Jimmy were both as equally toxic throughout the show.
On the Bowling Ball Confrontation: I am amazed at the number of fans who think Howard was out of line in this scene, thinking he was misogynistic for questioning her leaving S&C, and patronizing for lecturing her about Jimmy. On the first, I can't imagine anyone not having a similar reaction if one of their friends decided to walk away from a well paying gig (one that Kim aggressively pursued for years) for low-profit PD work. Jimmy was just as confused. As for assuming Jimmy was behind it, let's be honest - given his history, it is not an unreasonable assumption.
On the second point, if you saw your friend's (or even associate's) husband acting irrationally, why wouldn't you give them the head's up?
Kim was gaslighting Howard. She is an expert at gaslighting.
Howard also paid for her schooling. That has to count for a lot too. Law school isn’t cheap.
But the reasons fans think like that because Kim was right though. Howard didn’t respect her enough to be her own person. He always saw her as an innocent victim of Jimmy (just like everyone else) until 6x7.
@@nont18411 howard always wanted to see the best in people. thats why he was so forgiving to jimmy. chuck was holding him back from hiring jimmy which might have set jimmy on a different path even. howard wanted to see the best in kim later when he finally gave up on jimmy.
I think it was both. I think it's sexist that every single person in the show pictures Kim as a goody two shoes when really she's only ever shown that she's scared of getting caught, but has no problem otherwise with doing bad things or being self destructive. Kim looks from the outside like a weak person getting manipulated by a sleezy guy, which ignores that she has always been an incredibly smart and cunning person with lots of autonomy. That being said, even though that assumption is sexist doesn't mean it can't also be kind of right. Jimmy is not manipulating or controlling her, but it's obvious that these two together are a bad influence on each other. She uses the fact that the assumption of her as a victim is sexist to ignore the fact that Howard is still right about them being bad for each other, and her making bad choices. He's "kind of" wrong, and therefor she decides he's completely wrong.
They did it because it WAS their relationship. They stayed together by fighting Howard. Now, they have killed their relationship.
Howard had Chuck’s approval in a way that Jimmy always yearned for.
Chuck’s parting words to Jimmy "The truth is you've never mattered all that much to me” wounded Jimmy deeply.
Howard was a proxy for all the resentment and unrequited love, so Jimmy’s mission was to make Howard feel like he was nothing, too.
Sadly, in Chuck’s case, he himself resented Jimmy, as the younger brother was seemingly the favorite of his mother
If you think about it more deeply. Chuck was in law school when elementary school aged Jimmy stole from his dad's corner store.
Chuck was working hard yet Jimmy was goofing around not taking his job seriously. Yet Jimmy's mom said ah it's no big deal, Jimmy didn't know Chuck, while she ignored Chuck's success in law school.
That was the beginning of Chuck resenting Jimmy when Jimmy was 9 years old. Isn't that crazy?
@@RenaldyCalixte
I can't blame Chuck for being resentful. He did everything the right way and worked his butt off. Meanwhile Jimmy took shortcuts and yet was still the favored one.
@@irvinmorales1409 Yes but Chuck's resentment led to Chuck developing extreme pride about his value compared to Jimmy. Chuck I think should have tried more with Jimmy. However Jimmy also should have tried harder to not take shortcuts. Jimmy was addicted to taking shortcuts and he was never honest about that.
😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮
Jimmy wasn’t entirely selfish when it came to asking for money regarding His brother. He was spending money on his brother.
I feel like that’s more about pride,
Also, Howard and Jimmy are more similar than everyone thought. Both chose to be the puppets for those they care about (Howard being Chuck’s puppet and Jimmy being Kimmy’s puppet), knowing that what they did was wrong but chose to do it anyway just to not upset their loved ones (Howard did it because he’s afraid that Chuck will tank the firm if he’s upset, Jimmy did it to salvage what’s left of his marriage with Kim).
Not to mention that both Howard and Jimmy chose to be the “front” who always took the blames meanwhile the “masterminds” behind the scene were the ones who always took the morals.
Similar on being puppets, but completely different on why; Howard fears resistance, rocking the boat, and failure - Jimmy truly wants those he loves to get anything they want for their own sake first and foremost. But yeah, both let it get in their way in tragic proportions.
How was Jimmy being Kim's puppet ?? Can you give an example ?
@@andrelindblad6804 he only f-ed with Howard becuae Kim was insisting. But he could’ve just said “no that’s too much”. He loves her so much that is willing to do whatever she asks
@@andrelindblad6804 he wasn’t all that into the whole “Howard takedown” scheme to start with, for one thing - he actually called for shutting it down more than once.
I feel like it's all the things Howard said, plus the fact that they dehumanized him until they realized about his marriage😔
Thank you Kiwi ❤🥝
RIP Howard
Rip Howard Hamlin
This video is as comprehensive a breakdown of the complicated relationships between and amongst Chuck, Jimmy, Howard, and Kim as we're going to get. Great work, Kiwi.
Let's not forget that both Kim and Jimmy always got a massive kick out of scamming people. There is a lot motivation coming from the gratification they got from the act itself. In the immortal word of the movie Heat: The action IS the juice.
But also trying to distract from their trauma while keeping their relationship going
On "You're a shitty lawyer" - I think that Jimmy knew what he was doing. On some level he knows he is guilty for what is happening to Howard, and that it is undeserved (just as he doesn't really have his heart set on the scheme in season 6). He can't be honest with Howard, so instead he gets aggressive to push him out of his stupor. "Fuck you, Jimmy" is exactly what he was looking for - evidence that his kick in the ass will get Howard going. I don't think Jimmy is at all resentful over this.
Yeah, Howard. Start acting like the high-priced Salesman you are; let other people do the lawyering. That's why you have a big law firm, Howard. Duh.
Gott disagree about the exchange in the parking garage; Howard was 100% in the right(and correct) in saying Jimmy didn't care about the Sandpiper clients and only wanted his payout. And was correct in his assesment that is was not beyond Jimmy to pull some scam to undermine the case moving forward. At that point Howard was acting in the clients best interests, Jimmy was only concerned about his own.
Also, you are misreading the scene from S4 when Jimmy tells Howard, he is a shitty lawyer and how is he letting one little setback destory the firm...Jimmy was actually trying to help. That was more of a "tough love" type pep talk to help get Howard out of his depression. Loved the video besides those two minor things.
Exactly. Howard was “straight up being a dick” for a damn good reason. Everything he said to Jimmy was true.
I love Jimmy’s character, so I might just be defending him at all costs, but I do think he genuinely cared about the sandpiper elders. It is true that these people are old and might not even live to see their pay out
@@michaela389 I struggle with this idea also. It is true the Sandpiper clients are elderly and many may not have years to wait for their payouts to come. But the net affect of Jimmy’s meddling has already resulted in a loss for the Sandpiper clients. Rich Swichart said after the mediation hearing was canceled they were going back to their original offer and would he reducing the offer by $1 million per day if not accepted. By Jimmy and Kim engaging in this character assassination of Howard they have actually harmed the Sandpiper clients in addition to destroying Howard’s character and now his life! I do however think Jimmy had genuine care for the elderly Sandpiper clients but he put his and Kim’s personal interest and sick need for some kind of revenge on Howard ahead of theirs while convincing himself he was “doing the Lord’s work”! Even Huell wasn’t convinced of Jimmy’s good intentions in this scam.
@@michaela389 He liked the old folks in the case, and did not feel they would lose out on much if the case was settled early(he rationalized it by saying they will get $15-$20 less per person) but at that point all he wanted was his $$, he was not thinking of them... what was his next move? It was trying to manipulate the Sandpiper residents into settling... he wanted his end, that was it.
@@jordanl1911 It’s frustrating so much whenever Jimmy let his greed clouded his judgment because he ended up hurting himself every time.
First with the Sandpiper thing with Irene. He lost the respect of the elderly.
Second with the Lalo thing. He left the desert near death and got a PTSD for the rest of his life.
Third with the Walter thing. He lost his career, is now on the run and this time it wouldn’t be a near death situation. He could end up dead for real.
Howard is one of my favorite characters in either show because he’s a total inversion of the tired “rich jerk” trope. He’s the kind of man who did grow up well-off but paid attention to what his dad did to get the money. Even to the point that he’s the one being harassed/on the defensive in many instances.
Excellent video. Chuck and his self-centeredness, resentments of Jimmy, lack of self-awareness uncontrolled inner rage set alllllll this in motion. As the oldest child of four children, I’m upset with Chuck that he didn’t protect his family better. Chuck is the responsible older sibling; his criticisms were never constructive and his attaboys (ex.: Jimmy passing the bar and Kim getting Mess Verde) don’t feel happy or heart-felt. Chuck is so trifling that he didn’t even tell Jimmy his mother’s last word was Jimmy’s name. Even as upset and out of control Chuck’s last day was, I think a part of him did this to hurt Jimmy. His rage was ever present, cold, constant and at times explosive. “You’re nota reeeal lawyer.”
Such brilliant acting ... I loved to hate Chuck because he was such an arsehole to Jimmy and I think your assessment is spot on! Between Howard and Chuck they thwarted Jimmy at every turn and then the pair of them turned on each other. Jimmy and Kim are still the heroes of the show to me ... remains to be seen if their good team-work will continue or if they will somehow be turned against each other or split up, perhaps through the death of Kim? Yikes!
Chuck is a narcissist who never thinks that he’s at fault for anything. His assessment for Jimmy might be right but it’s still irrelevant because he didn’t say it from the sense of justice. He said it from his hatred and jealousy towards Jimmy.
If someone is gonna have the most accurate assessment in Jimmy’s character, that person is Suzanne Ericsen.
I could not agree more. Chuck still has a jealous for ‘the baby of the family’. Every older sibling gets this way. Regressive behaviors to get parents attention. Not understanding why a mother would need focus on her youngest over her eldest. But we all grow out of it. Chuck never did.
Like the death bed seen. Their mother calling out for Jimmy doesn’t mean he’s the favorite son. But Chuck is So Jealous he can only view it that way.
So spot-on.
Huh? Chuck was right from the very beginning about Jimmy. We didn't understand it at the time, but now we should. Chuck was a proud officer of the law and the law was sacred to him. Jimmy ain't a real lawyer, and he hurts people around him due to his crooked ways. He is as dirty as they come. Chuck called it from the very start. We would now understand where he was coming from. Chucks motive from the very beginning was to get Jimmy as far away as possible from being an officer of the law. Wich is why, if you remember he worked hard to get him suspended but failed. And what happened in the end? Jimmy destroyed HHM and its reputation and everything his brother had built, and got Howard killed and tarnished his name, just for the "fun" of it.
The real crook here is Jimmy but also Kim. They are sociopaths, like Howard says moments before death.
I always enjoy these types of videos as it really makes you think more about why they hate Howard as much as they do. I do think Jimmy was basically at peace with whatever grudge he had with Howard with the various stuff he did to him in Season 5, such as paying the two women to cause a scene at the table he and Cliff were are and launching bowling balls at his car. Jimmy went along with the scheme this season due to Kim and we saw he was apprehensive about going through with it at various points. Kim really wanted to set Howard’s career back, but both of course didn’t want the outcome that we saw happened to Howard to happen. Thank you for the video man, keep up the great work!
These videos always honk me off and I never miss them!
This video is exactly what I needed- a review of Kim and Jimmy’s history with Howard! I wanted to review the series especially for this purpose but I don’t have the time before the series returns- Now I don’t have to! This must have taken a lot of work! Much appreciated!!! Keep the great videos coming!
:)
So glad I discovered this channel when season 6 started. Great work as always!
I discovered it during season 5!
I found this channel while binge watching earlier seasons. Even the older video conversations/comments regarding these characters are entertaining and engaging. Channels like this really enhance my enjoyment of the show when I can discuss motivations, twists and morality of these characters with others.
Kiwis the best!
This show is so well-written. Every little detail makes sense and matters to the plot. Every character is nuanced, unique and really feels genuine. I cannot fathom how on Earth they have succeeded in making SUCH an amazing show.
I just love the Zelda silver rupee noise that you use for your transitions. 🙂
:D
"Things work out the way they're supposed to. I guess." This is Howard's tragic flaw. Howard is an idealist who believes in fairytale endings. He refuses to let an issue go without proper closure, pursuing the perfect outcome until it gets him killed. This flawed worldview is even reflected in his final words: "There's really no need to (shoot anyone)."
The moment that captures his flaw perfectly is when Howard reminds Jimmy he used to call him "Charlie Hustle" signaling he wants to make amends, but in response Jimmy simply shrugs it off, walking past the dent trashcan from the first episode. Howard would have an easier time restoring that trashcan to perfect condition, than making things right with Jimmy. Howard can't do it. The trashcan is already too warped. Fair or not, their relationship is permanently disfigured. But Howard doesn't get this. He thinks his apologies will do good and be fully accepted, when in reality, interpersonal damage is often permanent and apologies are usually counterproductive. No one can truly forgive and first impressions are hard to break. Howard should have listened to Kim and just let them both exit his life on bad terms. But he couldn't help himself, searching for a perfect happy ending that was never possible.
But he couldn't leave them alone. Jimmy was trying to sabotage Howard's career through the entire first half of season 7, and would have continued to do so. What is he supposed to do, leave and pretend they will leave him alone? Kim and Jimmy are simply evil characters who took their revenge quests WAY too far. Howard has a tragic death because he didn't deserve any of it.
Also, his arrogance in this fact, to "Know he is right", the only time he makes up for his arrogance is when his character is on the line.
@@radscorpion8 I mean he shouldn't have given jimmy the job offer or told Kim about the pranks.
@@grey-spark Maybe Jimmy should’ve just said “No, I won’t take the job because I hate you and what you and Chuck did to me.”, you know, like a normal person. Not throwing bowling balls and sending hookers to him.
@@nont18411 True. I'm not defending Jimmy. He's toxic. But Howard should've pick up on that instead of pursuing an impossible fantasy. Its not even Howards fault necessarily. He just didn't know better.
Honestly chuck and howard seemed to have the brother relationship that jimmy wanted out of chuck. With howard being the brother chuck wished he had over Jimmy.
Kim and Jimmy's relationship is so interesting.
Thinking back to when kim got thrown into doc review, and Jimmy lied to her about the commercial being approved, I think that from that point forward she decided that if he was going to do these antics, she needs to be clued in on them. Only later did it start really rubbing off on her and she realized she liked partaking in them.
If you really think of it, Kim was basically groomed into dropping her standards time and time again, by her mother, by Jimmy, by social pressures. At this point I feel like she thinks she cant get anything actually productive done without conning someone.
Excellent analysis.
I'm not sure it's just a pragmatic skill she uses. She really seems to like it, even turned on by it. Part of it, maybe most of it, is the thrill. And by proxy, distracts herself of her own internal issues.
S*** by the last season she's the one saying crazy s*** and Jimmy just going along with it
@@forknife326 seeing the end of the series now, I can still stand by this statement. She literally was groomed into being deceptive. As soon as she left Jimmy, she stopped all her antics(although I think it was out of guilt also)
I doubt she was happy in that life after Jimmy, but thats another topic entirely.
Slippin' Kimmy was brought out by those around her. Slippin' Jimmy is who Jimmy is.
I'm not at all convinced that Chuck was pulling the strings to putting Kim in doc review. I think Howard was completely angry that his professional brand was hurt by Jimmy's antics. And Howard values NOTHING more than his professional brand. That's fully explainable with Howard's character and without assuming Chuck was pulling that particular string. I also think he was being passive aggressive when he interrupted Kim with Kevin and Paige.
He didn't deserve what happened to him, but I have a less charitable view of Howard than you and many others do.
Well put....chuck knew howard had ti protect his status
Yeah I dont think he is a bad person or so but he is not 100% blameless in a lot of situations
Also Kim's rant at him was 100% valid
I totally agree with you. He’s not exactly a martyr here.
@@dootboye agreed!
Every member of the class in the Sandpiper Crossing case is elderly. Even if Jimmy was greedy, when you have elderly clients who could die before getting any payout, justice delayed is justice denied. That's why you can't absolve Howard and HHM for dragging out the proceedings, even if they were trying to maximize the total payout. That can be evidence of Howard's greed, just as Jimmy's impatience is evidence of his greed.
Yes you can. They are trying to get the max pay out for the clients and the punitive damages Sandpiper must pay and such suits are often the most reliable means of punishing large companies that behave this way. None of the elders we're shown are in bad health simply being a senior does not put you imminently on death's door. In fact the only one of Jimmy's elder law clients to pass away was not even one of the class members. Jimmy's motivations to settle were self centered not just self serving.
@@adamantiiispencespence4012 Not really though, Jimmy might be greedy but those old people deserve to get paid before they are gone. They even complained about it in 6x5 before Howard did a Slippin’ Howie move to convince them to calm down.
Getting Sandpiper settled right away beforehand might came from the wrong reasons from Jimmy and Kim but it benefits the old folks the most because it answers to their biggest concern which is about the uncertainty of dying.
@@nont18411 I just want to reiterate in my previous comment. I want to add though that persuading the clients not to rush to settlement is still ultimately a net benefit for the class. It's not a scam for Howard to successfully persuade them of such. Cliff Maine from everything were shown is a kind and upstanding person and he was pleased with Howard's save.
@@adamantiiispencespence4012 But the uncertainty is high though. These are old folks which means when the case is finally settled in the future, it’s not even certain that how many people in that group would be still alive to get the benefits but what is certain is that HHM will get the benefit for sure.
Law is complicated. That’s why characters like Chuck, Howard, Kim and Jimmy cannot be categorized in a clear cut of being good or evil. Even Saul, Jimmy’s “most evil version”, still has his morality in a grey area, not full on evil like the drug lords like Lalo or Walter White.
I think its a huge credit to the writers that people are so torn on this. You can understand how each character justifies their choices and how their motivations conflict
40 mins, man I fkin love this, the most kiwi we get, the better
Hell yeah we do
I love these deep dive videos. I didn’t remember that Howard referred to Jimmy as Gollum. Howard doesn’t strike me as a LOTR guy lol. It would be interesting if as a kid Howard was a meganerd.
Bro! You knocked it out the park AGAIN!
Nailed it by pointing out at the end how the writers cut the shine off of Jimmy and Kim gradually! They are certainly Brilliant, Flawed and now not really likable. Thanks for making me Love this show even more with your commentary! 👌🏾💥💯
Kim attacking Howard after Chuck's death is perfectly understandable. The main thing that makes Kim mad at Howard is his lack of empathy. As far as Howard knows, Jimmy simply lost his brother. Jimmy, like any other person, has his own way of coping with this loss and Howard basically nukes that coping process by talking about the possible suicide.
It's disrespectful to someone's emotional space, you shouldn't try and steer the way someone is grieving a loss. Even if you think you're doing the right thing, because it's not up to you or about you right now. Howard deciding on his own that sharing this very sensitive information is more important than the emotional needs of Jimmy is already very inconsiderate. Doing it on the day of the funeral is mind-boggling.
my friend and I are watching this a 3rd time ahead of the final episodes. We noticed that Howard might have a problematic use of alcohol. He's shown drinking hard liquor in the middle of the day sometimes, but like the problems he has with his wife it's something the audience knows but Kim and Jimmy wouldn't. Only the audience knows that Chuck was a suicide, and yes it's horrible to Howard to have verbalized his suspicion especially right after the funeral, but we wondered if he'd had a couple of drinks before saying that. It's still a terrible thing to say but perhaps it was more easily brushed off if they knew. If that's the case it's yet another misunderstanding/something that escalates on this show, that leads to unintended bad consequences.
Framing it that way treats Howard like an outsider with a minimal connection to the deceased. That's not the case. Howard lost a hugely important figure in his life too. Howard lost a life long friend and mentor who was like a second father to him. And conversely it shows a great lack of empathy not acknowledge that. Also I'm sure Howard knew that Jimmy had already considered the possibility of suicide. I'm sure he just wanted to have the truth heard and accept whatever came of telling it. And Jimmy used it to wound him further.
Naah still not enough reason to het what he got
I mean that much elaborate plan to destroy a man ,the lengths theybwent to get the smallest step done
🤦♂️
Kim broke bad wag harder than Walter White ever did
Nah this is a terrible writing.. Howard didn't do anything to deserve what he got
Whenever someone says IRL: "I was only harder on you because...insert justification," what they're really saying is: "I discriminated against you because of my own emotions and biases." It's actually very common.
Yes! Or just plain jealousy.
@@juliacarl584 Absolutely. A person of a demographic that they don't identify with outperforming them? That's grounds for dismissal, right there.
Excellent point on Howard being able to process Chuck's death and Jimmy never did.
21:07 - I never noticed the contrast before with this point. Chuck once had to bail Jimmy out of jail time on the condition that Jimmy turn his life around and give up his life of crime. Here, Jimmy had the opportunity to lock Chuck up on the hope that Chuck would eventually turn his life around and return to his dedication to the law, but chose not to do it.
What pissed me off is that Chuck allegedly 'wanted Jimmy to turn his life around' but when Jimmy does just that and passes the bar, he goes to extra lengths to shut him down. He also almost encourages his old ways *"Slipping Jimmy I could deal with"* *"You're not a lawyer"* etc. Imagine if Chuck actually supported his career, gave him the HHM job and the sandpiper case. Doubt any of this would have happened.
@@seasonalserotonin2559 agreed. Chuck was a true piece of sh!t who managed to get caught at his own sick game by accidentally getting Jimmy to outgrow being his scapegoat.
@@seasonalserotonin2559 Jimmy absolutely would have fucked up his job at HHM. Just look at how he acted at Davis&Maine.
@@jessetheanimenerd3304 It's possible. But he was good at it nonetheless. What we saw at D&M was more self sabotage than anything else; something which Jimmy might have not done with the right support. And all this happened after the rejection at HHM in tandem with the vilification from his brother. That doesn't help. When one is constantly told you're a certain way never to change, some tend to embrace it.
i dont really agree with the notion that anyone is responsible for chucks death besides himself
Howard didn't deserve a damn thing that happened to him. His worst crime was coming off as a bit of a douche at times but he's probably the most morally intact character in the entire Breaking Bad universe. Not to mention Howard is the only character we know of that's gone to therapy. He wasn't perfect but even he knew that and tried to better himself.
His last words were going to be "There's really no need to hurt them." Even when his last moments were spent chastising the two people who had hurt him the most, he still tried to plead for their lives
Thanks KiWi, excellent breakdown. Howard was indeed a decent enough guy. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time. The Howard - Chuck dynamic was rather odd. The Howard - Jimmy - Kimmy relationship was a train wreck waiting to happen. Love the complex relationships in this series.
Just thought of that flashback to Chuck and Jimmy’s mom’s dying. Jimmy went to get something to eat, mom came out of her coma for a second before she died and said ‘Jimmy’, and of course Chuck had to save face and lie. Brotherly love.😍
Amazing work! Amazing video! I'm so satisfied
Chuck would not have stopped til jimmy was reduced to cooking chilli P for Jessie to make ends meet
Well Done Kiwi! Keep up the great work. This is completely off subject but I can't believe Kim (Rhea Seehorn) turned 50 last month! Take care man. Looking forward to your next vid.
Thanks for the support! & yea Rhea looks amazing for her age.
You are wrong about the check. It was 14 grand and that is too much for a “gesture”. She just didn’t want to feel like she owed him. Great analysis overall though. You always catch details I miss.
She asked howard if it was 4000, and he said 5. in episode 406 when jimmy tells howard he's a shitty lawyer jimmy picks up the cheque for 5000 saying "there's a problem that 5000 can solve."
How do you all pick up on details? I always catch the general story, but the details are always lost to me even if I watch something twice.
Law school costs a lot more than $14,000
@@chazm3 Scholarship and a different time.
On the silver spoon: When Howard cites that he had everything handed to him, it may certainly speak to the character's insecurity, but I have also seen that sort of class resentment among a lot of BCS fans.
I really feel it's Kim that drives this last thing, Jimmy didn't really seem all that interested in pursuing it this time, but this time she was the one to pursue it like he had for so long in the past.
Howard wasn’t a pushover, he just had to do whatever chuck said because chuck owns 10 million of the company
Literally everyone watching the last season: "I can't believe they killed off Howard like this! He was innocent in all of this and deserved better! I sympathize with him more than any character!"
Kiwi: "I should jump in to defend Howard".
I think Howard always genuinely liked and respected Jimmy and I think Howard would've hired Jimmy as soon as he passed the bar if not for Chuck. Howard wasn't a good lawyer but he was a good business man and he saw the potential in having Jimmy on board
There's absolutely nothing that suggests Howard wasn't a good lawyer as Kim never disputes Howard's claims of acting as a mentor for her. Something I don't think she would let stand if she had no respect for his acumen within his profession. He also has the respect of Cliff Maine and Chuck in this regard. He may not be the legal genius that Chuck is but we've been shown that pretty much no one is.
The doc review thing was all Howard. Chuck actually asked him in the end if Kim was out of the doghouse after landing them Mesa Verde, and he more or less said no.
For all the virtues Howard may have, one huge personal flaw of his is, he's obsessed with his image. That's why he comes off such a pompous prick to begin with. Kim embarrassed him, and that he couldn't forgive.
I think they did it because Jimmy saw Chuck from beyond the grave in Howard.
Howard’s biggest screwup was enabling Chuck’s abuse of Jimmy. Such a minor issue but it caused him to become a scapegoat for everything he complacently let Chuck get away with and ultimately be blamed for it
They're didn't hates Howard, they just was like cats and dogs, their relationship was still friendly for me, when Howard was shot by lalo they react like if a friend of them was dead
The relation between Nacho and Hector was really bad, pure hatred
Strange that the show ends with Kim "doin the right thing", when Kim is the sole person who benefitted the most from Jimmy being Jimmy. She benefitted when Jimmy swindled his brother. In a huge way. She landed Mesa Verde while Jimmy was struggling to make money with small time cons. She got off Scott free and walked away from the law. Jimmy kept hustling, leading him to Walt. Kim ran away to florida, and then criticized Jimmy for what he did, and went and ratted herself and Jimmy out, Kim put herself in danger with the law, and Jimmy sacrificed himself to guarantee her safety. Seems, in the end, that Jimmy enabled Kim to live out her wildest dreams and exploits and Jimmy was the only one that paid for their exploits. Kim is rivalled only by Gus and Walt in the villain hierarchy of the Breaking Bad universe.
I think the thing that kind of made it obvious what the point was, was when one of Kim’s coworkers from Mesa Verde ate lunch with her and told Kim how she admired her for “sticking up for the little guy.” It seems like Jimmy and Kim try to be good people by sticking up for poor/disadvantaged people, and Howard was anything but that, even though he was a great person, he did obviously get some help from his dad.
Yes!
You spend a little time explaining the relationship Howard had with Chuck but I think there's a lot more to be said there - it clearly goes deep! Every time Howard speaks of Chuck it is with great admiration, calling him "the best legal mind I have ever known" multiple times. He clearly looked up to him and likely even saw him as his moral compass. To him, Chuck, the experienced friend of his father was likely almost a substitute for his father and through gaining his approval he likely felt he was on the right path. Chuck craved to be admired and this at the time innocent impressionable child craved to have someone to look up to so, of course, they must have latched onto each other. Jimmy is the main character so we are inclined to think of his motivations and reasons for doing things but it is only fair that we extend the same curtesy to Jimmy's biggest victim.
So I do not agree with your analysis the section Jimmy confronts Howard. I certainly wouldn't call Howard's behavior inexcusable, considering that at this point Jimmy has already been highly combative towards him. Sure, Howard might be able to understand why Jimmy feels the way he feels and acts the way he acts but I can understand why Howard would develop some resentments towards Jimmy. Yes, he said some mean things but he has spent his life admiring the person who hates Jimmy the most. It is easy to see how his ideas of Jimmy would be shaped by his interactions with Chuck and how a lot of Jimmy's actions up to this point fit the perspective Howard has developed based on Chuck's words. Howard believes his own words to be true and aims to be honest with Jimmy. I do not think this is an unfair way to act and certainly not unfair enough to warrant breaking his entire reputation over it.
4:37: The earliest episode that I can think of that makes it unambiguously clear that Jimmy is not supposed to be likeable was back in season 3 when he set elderly women against each other to get his Sandpiper settlement money.
IMO that’s the worst thing he’s ever done
Thanks for all the videos bud. Keeps us all going until July 11th. Well me anyway
2 weeks and 1 day!
Me too!
I think the references to DOC REVIEW are going to show Kim found some discrepancies in MADRIGAL accounting, according to the Hotel Room meeting with Gus, Lydia and PETER the GERMAN. "That WOMAN almost found out."
Great video, enjoyed it so much and I have so much more to think about!
I personally understand why some people are on Howard's side and I think that the way in which he was dealt with by Jimmy and Kim was awful but looking in retrospective Howard was always a coward, he never stood up to Chuck, he was always too afraid to change the status quo even knowing that things were not OK, it's like Kim said in earlier seasons Howard it's the kind of rich guy that knows something is wrong but doesn't do anything about it and he later try to make it up by donating to some charity and then feel good about it (I don't remember the exact quote but that's basically it)
Surely he didn't deserve everything they've done though, let alone bringing him in contact with Lalo
Except that what Howard did for Chuck is identical to what Jimmy is doing for Kim. Both of them chose to be the latter’s puppets (knowing that the latter did the bad things).
It was the old guy that wouldn't sell his house that said that to Kim but you are right it also applies to Howard.
It’s also quite reflective of Jimmys relationship with Kim too. If Kim wants to do something (like “mess” with Howard) Jimmy just goes along with it as to not upset the status quo. Jimmy also resents Howard because of the fact that he remind him of himself, always manipulated by a stronger character.
@@taylorhammon4030 An as always, both Jimmy and Howard always took the blames for what their respective partners did.
Chuck took the morals as the legend of the law world and “the second coming of Clarence Darrow” while Howard took the blames for following Chuck’s orders.
Same as Kimmy, she took the morals. Viola saw her as a hero who made her feels better about the law. Kevin and Rich love her professionalism. Chuck viewed her as a “fine woman”.
Meanwhile, Jimmy had to (willingly and foolishly) take the blames for every one of her plans, from destroying the 1216 evidence, to the Huell thing, to the whole Mesa Verde thing and the whole Howard thing.
I hope Jimmy will grow a spine and stand up for himself. Like seriously, why chose to be condemned as a bad guy all the time just to protect one woman who is not so moral?
This is a great video, I don’t think you missed a thing! Thank you!
I think you're being too generous letting Howard off the hook, blaming it all on Chuck. Howard still had to go along with all of it in order to blackball Jimmy.
This is really a great video! I always wondered why Jimmy and Kim did what they did to poor Howard in the last season and couldn't figure out why and that really bothers me a lot. Your analysis explains a lot about why they hate Howard because Jimmy can't process Chuck's death well like Howard did. Great job
Howard has been extremely good to Jimmy McGill. When Jimmy expressed interest in working at HMM, he was not opposed to it. It was Charles McGill's decision to not hire Jimmy at HMM. And Charles used Howard to decline hiring Jimmy, so Charles would not look like the bad guy. But who can blame Charles? Charles was not wrong when he said that Jimmy being a lawyer would be a dangerous.
I think a lot of the reason Jimmy became Saul was because of Chuck. Chuck never believed in Jimmy and very often people become the very thing that those closest to them see them as. If your own brother or other family sees you in a certain way eventually you start believing it yourself. If Chuck had believed in Jimmy and supported him more I think things may have turned out different. That in no way removes responsibility from Jimmy, he's a grown man, but still.
Chuck’s treatment of Jimmy is an epitome of how the society treats ex-convicts or recovering addicts. These people barely got any chances to redeem themselves thanks to the prejudice of those “good people” on their past criminal records. They got a job thousand times harder than those who never have a history, Their rejection made them relapse and go back to their bad behaviors again…just like how Jimmy became Saul because Chuck and the establishment kept rejecting him.
Also, what a recovering addict need the most is the support from the family. Chuck didn’t give Jimmy any support (he did the opposite, betraying and sabotaging Jimmy’s career). The closest thing he did was giving a job in a mailroom but with a reason is to make sure Jimmy will never get to thrive in his career while Chuck himself is still on top.
The worst part is how he insulted Jimmy that Jimmy took an “easy” path by learning from American Samoa. Jimmy learned from that place online because he never got any money for respectable law school like what Howard and Kim got from Chuck, and Jimmy studied law while having to work full time in the mailroom so when Chuck was asleep, Jimmy was studying.
@@nont18411 Chuck was a miserable brother, but Jimmy wasn't homeless on the streets. He was gainfully employed with secure housing. I'm not sure if you noticed, but a recurring theme in the show is the theme of people wanting 'More' and the consequences trying to get it. Jimmy scams because he wants easy money. Kim grinds away at the law because she wants more from life. Nacho gets trapped under Gus because he's running side businesses and he doesn't want the cartel to find out. Gus ends up in a silent war with the Salamancas because he wants to have his own massive meth operation. Mike gets his son killed because he turns to becoming a corrupt cop. The show does an excellent job with showing the perils of greed.
How could you not see that calling him Charlie Hustle was a backhand to him for the fact he was a street hustler named slippin jimmy, always working a hustle angle. Its how he ended up there. You could see that jimmy knew it.
On the elder Hamlin: Look at what Howard's skills and and what Chuck's are. Chuck is the legal mind, Howard is the people person, the salesman. While we never met Howard's dad, we can guess that the apple didn't fall far from the tree. Other than being Chuck's partner and Howard's dad, all we know is he spent time on the golf course. Why? What do lawyers do on golf courses? They make deals. They bring in clients. My guess is that partnership worked so well because Hamlin and Chuck complemented each other. Chuck was brilliant legally but socially is stiff and a bit arrogant. Left to his own devices he would probably have had a very small client base. Hamlin likely was the inferior lawyer but the one who could sell Chuck's talent. They needed each other. Howard and Jimmy probably could have had a similarly fruitful relationship.
Does that mean Jimmy is the better lawyer? I would think he would be the one to sell, but you said Howard mustnt have fallen far from the tree, so he must be the sales person.
I think we're reading too much into Jimmy's assessment of Howard as a shitty lawyer but terrific salesman. Howard actually advised Chuck not to take the stand and if he hadn't all Jimmy's plans in Chicanery would've been moot. Legal Eagle actually said that this bit of advice is something that paints Howard as a savvy and experienced trial lawyer. So while he may not be Chuck level legal genius. The show pretty much hammers in the idea that no one really is. Even with Jimmy's plan working his bar license was suspended still one in the legal W column for Chuck.
@@adamantiiispencespence4012 Jimmy may have been exaggerating his failings but was dead on with his strengths. He was trying to push Howard out of his stupor, and calling him a shitty lawyer certainly provoked a response.
@@thorthewolf8801 We see Jimmy/Saul is a pretty superior lawyer in both BB and BCS. He works magic, but he does it more through extralegal maneuvers. He beat Chuck and Howard in court, but needed a bit of "chicanery" to do it. Stunts like using a pickpocket to plant the battery would have likely gotten a mistrial and a reprimand in an actual court rather than a bar hearing.
howard has become my fav BCS character and maybe my fav character in the whole bb/bcs universe. Patrick fabian is phenomenal
That final monologue of hamlin was pure hamlin (good thing they added that boxing scene) and felt almost like too much of a mouth piece for the writers, he hit the nail on the head on so many themes and character motivations that were always implied and never stated. During this argument I was like (damn are we really going to just have a discussion on character and theme of the show now? Something felt off.) And then lalo walked in. I do hope episode 8 (after the pre theme scene) starts 2 seconds after episode 7 ended in the apartment. I feel like the scene was cut right in the middle.
Finally kiwi is back, been waiting for this video 📼 for 3 day's now
Jimmy and Kim hate Howard for the simple reason that he represents everything they resent about the system. Nepotism. Privilege. Special Treatment. Howard got ahead in life not because he's a particularly good lawyer but because he knew the right people at the right time. He was born into wealth thanks to his father and mentored by the man who was arguably one of the greatest legal minds in the United States. Howard literally had everything going for him.
Meanwhile, Jimmy couldn't even get his brother to believe in his potential after he passed the bar exam and put together a class action lawsuit. He arguably showed far more potential as a lawyer than Howard ever did and yet was held back because of everyone's assumptions about him. No matter how hard Jimmy tries, he'll never be a respected lawyer and he'll never get Chuck's respect . . . but Howard gets it automatically.
As for Kim, she got into the law specifically to help the little guy. Every day people. She only got Mesa Verde to get out of doc review and once she had it she realized it's not for her. She doesn't like helping privileged people add to their millions. She would rather help the people who actually need help. That's why she sticks with Jimmy so much: because she recognizes how much the system punches down on him. Howard is already a product of privilege and nepotism: what good does it do anyone to help him?
So when looked at it like that, it's not hard to see why they thought of framing Howard as some twisted form of justice. Does he hate that everyone sees him as something he's not? Now he knows how Jimmy feels. Does he hate being unfairly denied bigger opportunities? Now he knows how Kim feels.
What they failed to recognize is that just because Howard is privileged that doesn't mean he's just another stuffy black suit needing to be taught a lesson in humility. He was never actually full of himself. He RECOGNIZED his privilege and absolutely believed in passing it down. That's why he paid off Kim's debt for her and why he wanted to make amends with Jimmy. And he was never greedy. He literally put themself in enormous debt to get Chuck out without endangering the firm. He put his own skin on the line to do what's right and never got a thank you.
Howard may be a product of an unfair system but that NEVER made him the enemy. Jimmy and Kim failed to recognize that.
@Tombo Toons Jimmy and Kim represent to me people who constantly overgenralize groups as rich and privelaged people and think if they are in that category, they are automatically bad and lesser than and everybody not in that category is a saint and not part of the problem
Wow, you went above and beyond with this video. Excellent work!!
I partially disagree that Howard supported Chuck with his illness for genuine love and support because HHM's reputation would've suffered if Chuck were to leave.
3:21
Tbh, I always saw that line and delivery and just find it funny, because it really sounds like a nice guy trying his best to act mean 😂
I think it’s that classic psychosis that most narcissistic people have wherein if they create a narrative about another person and tell themselves it’s true then they can validate their actions against someone even though they might be horrendous etc. That’s just been my experience in life dealing with people like this in my own life and I think kim and Jimmy are struggling as kiwi mentioned and tend to blame others instead of themselves. It was the perfect storm and poor Howard got caught up in “storm Kim & jimmy” years ago! 🙌🏻🥝🙌🏻
Isn’t it amazing that a constant abuse from a narcissist (Chuck) ended up breeding two more narcissists (Jimmy and Kimmy). It’s an endless vicious cycle of abuse.
@@nont18411 indeed it is
You missed it
@@nont18411 Jimmy is an adult, not some kid with no agency. He was a scammer ever since he was a kid, always looking for ways to use other people to his advantage. Chuck saw that and honestly, he should've let him spend time in jail. People defend him because he's likable but when you step back, you realize he's a horrible person who has negatively affected everyone around him
@@E_V878 If only we had seen Chuck give him a chance
Howard is the only person that truly believed that even with all his flaws, even with knowing what a "square peg" he turned out to be at Davis and Maine, even after EVERYTHING Jimmy is and always was, Howard believed in Jimmy's abilities as a lawyer, believed he didn't need to change, he belonged at HHM just as he was. Warts and all, Jimmy was a hard worker, a good lawyer, and he believed from season 1, all the way through throwing bowling balls at his car, right up until confronting him about it at the court house and being chased out like a crazed maniac, that Jimmy belonged at HHM and would have done just fine there.
I don't hear anyone talk about this enough.
Howard easily had th second best character development through the wholw series. Hes not just used a tool for chuck to buffer against jimmy and throw him off his scent and makes us think that hes the jerk in Jimmy's way. But ultimately shows the true character of Jimmy and Kim in regards to their own sociopathy.
A 45 min video on Saul. Thank you
I gotta disagree with Kim being wrong in season 4 after Chucks death. Howard deserved all that fire he got from Kim. The day of chucks funeral you’re going to tell Jimmy that Chuck killed himself? I agree with Kim 100% that Howard did it to unload his guilt onto Jimmy because deep down Hamlin knows forcing Chuck out of HHM was the final straw that made him kill himself. Why didn’t he tell Rebecca if he wanted to make it known Chuck was suffering? That was a complete asshole move from Hamlin. If he really cared about Jimmy’s feelings after chucks death he would’ve kept that to himself. Telling Jimmy that Chuck committed suicide made Jimmy feel like he was responsible for it. Then Howard says it’s his fault it happened thinking Jimmy will be like ooo no it’s not your fault Howard. I loved the burn Jimmy gives with saying “well that’s your cross to bear”. Howard was completely wrong for doing that.
In the end, I think Chuck had good reason to worry Jimmy might get involved with some underhanded chicanery that damaged the public’s perception of HHM. Did he lift a finger to help his brother get started somewhere else? No
Honestly this newest season has just reaffirmed how sad of a man chuck was, even if the choices Kim, jimmy and Howard made were still their own, one sad old man’s sheer amount of spite was enough to irreparably damage the relationships between the only people that cared about him.
List his wife, too.
Howard is one of my favorite characters in TV history. The actor nailed the part perfectly.
I said this on Pete's channel can you imagine if they found Howard had a recording device in his pocket that would be a crazy call back to Chuck and if you notice Jimmy nor Kim neither one either deny or admit their guilt so I think that's pretty crazy
When you lay it all out on the table like this, it makes Kim and Jimmy's nasty and vengeful behavior toward Howard less uncalled for... Also Its frightening how quickly everyone has aged across the seasons...
A lot of Howard's mea culpas sound like the Nuremberg trials; hey I was just following orders. We weren't given any choice.
"Jimmy, if I had it _MY_ way, it never would have gone this way..." _gosh I'm powerless in my position as #2 at the firm, arguably with a stronger partner position having clearly held the firm together for the time before BCS began..._ I mean, please.
You can't claim to be remorseful, and then also claim to be a victim of circumstance in the same breath. It's what makes Howard such a tragic figure. He wants to practice law. Uphold the "morals of the state." He wants to be what he perceives to be "Good." The problem is he finds himself betraying his values, time and again in deference to people he views as more powerful than himself, or actions he defends not personally, but for what he is told is "the good of the firm." He goes the easy way, the safe way, instead of the right way. And he is fully aware that he is betraying himself, and so he hates himself, so he tries harder to be the better person. The perfect person.
I mean, you don't offer to hire the brother of the senior partner who never wanted him to work at the firm, ESPECIALLY after that senior partner killed himself after breaking down in court. I mean, that's just not an appropriate gesture, at all. But it's the "nice" thing, now that he can.
This is why Howard is not a sympathetic character as a victim of the "Goodman's" hijinks/nefarious plan. He's just not sympathetic, but he wants to be while having no idea how to do so, and it winds up being just pathetic. He is tragic. Which is why his ending was inevitable.
When I saw Howard's head blown out my heart drop it was almost as real as seeing a real person pass on it actually scared me this was weirdly the most impactfull death in the breaking bad universe idk why
I agree. Nacho and Howard, completely different people, but both complicated humans, like all of us, met their demise so shockingly and suddenly.
That fact that we care so strongly about these imperfect, ancillary characters is testament to the writing staff of this series.
Really great topic. I always wondered why
Off topic but I just realized that both Michael McKean and Patrick Fabian both played on Friends once upon a time.
I too have been assuming up to this point that Howard's dad (Hamlin Sr.) is dead - but what if he's not: what if he's the upcoming additional new character that Bob Odenkirk mentioned recently?
Possible, but unlikely. I don't know what Howard's age is, but he is a grey haired fellow. I am guessing he is at least 55 and his Dad is at least 75, but could be as old as mid-90's. So it's unlikely, but it's always possible.
@@Maw0 Fair enough. I dunno, though - I think an actor like Ron Perlman could play a convincing father of Patrick Fabian.
@@Maw0 ... I have always assumed that Howard is blond not grey!! I think he is probably early 50s so it is very possible that his father could be alive and aged anywhere from early 70s onwards!
@@LouHillierPsych Agreed - and how cool of a payoff would it be to have been mentioning a character for six seasons before they finally introduce him, ya know?
@@LouHillierPsych Oh he is a very clear grey.
Imagine in the next episode there is a loophole in the Sandpiper case that results in it being dismissed and no one, including Jimmy and Kim, get a single dollar of settlement
Howard was definitely correct when he said that Chuck really knew Jimmy - someone who would never change and just continually disappoint those around him. Jimmy would never have been a good fit for HHM just as he wasn’t the type of lawyer that Davis & Main required.
I disagree. Jimmy as much of his Slipping Jimmy era side of him he still had on the earlier seasons he was trying to change for the better specially because of Chuck till he found out the truth. It was Chuck's jealousy of him always being his parents favorite and being saved by them that got resentment over Jimmy. It formed a toxic permanent view of Jimmy that Chuck had and ended up breaking him more and making him just stay on his antics rather than try to change for the better
I think this was one of several problems with the writing. It doesn’t make sense that both Kim and jimmy would risk everything they are building to obsess over Howard. They know Chuck was Jimmy’s biggest problem, so risking disbarment and jail, just to bring Howard down was pointless. Neither benefit from it.
Jimmy and Kim fought Howard for the simple fact that they’re fighting who they were. They each turned a corner following aspirations at HMM and they’re now trying to define themselves as being against what Howard represents. Sure, Howard’s been a dick to them on and off, but the particulars outlined here don’t really matter, because nothing that he’s done warrants how they treated him. And I think it’s the stress that Lalo has brought into their life that turns their need to hurt someone else up to eleven. Lalo has made them feel powerless, so they yearn to take down someone powerful. And now with Howard gone they’re going to turn that hate around into the direction that truly it, towards Lalo. My guess is that would be that Kim kills Lalo and she goes on the run - not from the police, but from the cartel. Before she goes, she tells Jimmy that they’ll meet again at a specific time and place, and that’s where Gene is going.