@@japexican007 Did you watch the video? Brandon admits (and I agree) that you can cherry-pick some good passages, but the story changes when you dig a little deeper. Even New Testament times weren't so rosy, since the misogyny was there in full force.
I had previously viewed your videos as misguided, but cogent attempts at sincere critique. I have revised that previous estimation. You really dropped the ball on this one... sorry. Have you never stopped to consider that you simply would have none of these liberal Western sentiments which you claim to hold in such high esteem, but for the Judeo-Christian tradition? see also: Holland, Tom "Dominion: How the Christian Revolution Remade the World" 2019
@@andrewferg8737 that brings up a lot of questions. Does that mean Brandon's pro-woman sentiment *is* Chridtian? If so, great. If not, then what does it say that this apparently non-Christian sentiment grows out of Christian teaching? Does the idea that liberal values grow out of Christianity imply Christianity is literally true? If we accept liberal values as good, and those values contradict Christian tradition, does it matter if they arose from Christianity? And if liberal values are not good because they contradict true Christianity, then why bother crediting Christianity as the source? And what does it mean that something inside the Judeo-Christian tradition arose as a new worldview that opposes so much of that same tradition?
To say a woman is somebody’s “little girl” is to infantilize her and to say her value is derived from her father, at least until he “gives her away” (or sells her). She continues as immature and as property.
yes its gross. and apparently was the only way this guy could stop himself from lusting, becasuse if she was a woman, shed be open meat on the market to him.
I think this is a bit of a stretch. If we steel man him I think it's easy to see that what he means is he should treat all women the same way he would treat his own daughter, specifically with respect and dignity rather than an object of lust not that a woman's value is derived from her property value- though that is what the Bible says
Exactly. Literally no one has ever said "treat men well because they are someone's little boy/son." Everyone has a mother and father (at least biologically), so it's not like it's not true that everyone's is someone's son or daughter, it's just that it's a dumb distinction to make based on the person's gender. How about treating everyone like they inherently have value and are worthy of respect?
The “she’s someone’s daughter” always makes me angry: as if somehow the only way I’m worth anything is in relation to a man, not that I have value in and of myself as a human being. As if somehow I am less than human because of my gender.
No matter what, unless there is a DNA test, the paternity of a baby can ALWAYS be in question. Only the biological mother of any baby is guaranteed at delivery. This has always led to trying to control a woman's vagina and uterus. BTW Eve partaking of the fruit of the tree of knowledge (of good an evil) is because it was EVE that figured out that when coitus took place the outcome was often the production of progeny. The outcome happened to HER; her breasts started getting sensitive and heavy, she stopped bleeding every month, her body started changing. Women were the one's who put together the construct of the "consequences for actions;" the if:then statement, with which the conclusion of same took us out of the "paradise" of being animals that do not relate the sexual act to the ultimate delivery of the baby. This knowledge, as stated, took us out of the paradise of being animals; we coul no longer fu@k with impunity. Once males became aware of this fact as well the entire course of history was changed. It takes resources and work to raise progeny and I can believe most males decided they didn't want to be saddled with raising other males' "good time" babies. Go figure.
@@irinasolomina1800 No, the thing is that the guy only realized women are worthy of some consideration after realizing they are the daughters of some other men.
@@juanausensi499No, because they are the daughter of their moms as well. It has nothing to do with gender. Someone could equally say (if women had just as much of sexual lust issues as men) “that’s someone’s son.” I think the demeaning part is in the fact that someone is only respected in light of considering their parents. It’s a stupid “epiphany” of the guy, but at least better than nothing.
I was a Christian for 30 years and went to a evangelical fundamentalist church so I lived under the burden of submission to my husband, in bed and out. The Bible has a horrible and disgusting view of women. I’ve been agnostic now for 10 years and I still struggle with trauma of having lived most of my life without feeling I had the rights of ownership over my own body.
I'm glad you got out! My sister-in-law was homeschooled and everything by her EXTREMELY Christian family. Like, one step removed from Handmaid's Tale type stuff. Thankfully, she started asking questions and was able to break away from that disgusting mentality but not until after she got married at 18 to a very abusive guy who gaslighted her into having a baby so she wouldn't leave him. Because of her upbringing, she felt she had to stay with him and maybe their relationship was normal. It wasn't until she got some time away from him was she able to rationalize the relationship was wrong and divorced him. I was fortunate. I realized at a young age Christianity hates women so I stopped buying into the hype. But I've always been hyper aware of women suffering throughout history and from various cultures.
When I was a little girl growing up in the pre-Vatican II Catholic Church watching the altar boys accompany the colorfully-clad priest up the center aisle to the altar, which I could not set foot on, being a girl, I remember thinking, "God must not like little girls very much." And that was LONG before I started reading the Bible!
He. Im with you here but the funny thing little girls is the only girls this god likes as the young virginal ones are quite literally the only ones he finds of worth.
He needed to read the bible to realize that every woman is someone's daughter? What did he think before, they were just made out of ribs? I totally agree with you that women in religious marriages of many faiths can be abused mentally, emotionally and physically, justified by the words in their husband's particular special book. In an atheist relationship we don't get to justify our actions by pointing to someone else's edited words from a 2,000 year old scroll, we have to work things out one by one.
lol about the ribs joke! and yes you summed it up very well! Its a point I would have liked to expand on better. Not all believers treat the women in their life poorly of course, but that would be in opposition to what their book says. And not all atheist are moral and treat the women in their life great, but if they don't its not because some god told them to and they cant pass the buck.
Isn't it wild the best he can come up with is that a woman is a person only in relation to someone else? You can only humanize them because they are someone's (presumably a father's) daughter? What about, "wow, that earthling is an earthling with their own wonder and value.
About 6 months ago a woman was telling me why abortion was bad and gave me a lecture. After she finished I said that I didn't want my daughter to not be considered anything more than a breed slave by the Chruch or Government. She really got pissed at me and said "please not say that"' I elected to not say more because I knew it would do no good. Plus I didn't want to look at her anymore.
I really think that's why they overturned Roe v Wade wasn't to save children's lives, but to have more children to SA in the churches and religious establishments🤬
One of the things i hate about my religion is that rape is forbidden not because its painful and bad for the women. NO! its because said woman are the property of their husbands, fathers and brothers. Like damn bro so if shes an orphan she is free to be used and abused? Truly disgusting for someone who claims to love you more than your parents ever could
That was one of many things I noticed when I decided to become a better Christian by reading the bible cover to cover several times. From Genesis to Revelations it was riddled with atrocities. I couldn't believe such a petty, spiteful, egotistical being should be worshiped. ✌🖖
Technically, the Bible gives the same punishment to men for SA as for consensual sex, no better, no worse. The only loophole is if the victim is not married or betrothed, then he only has to marry her. Back when girls were married off at 11-12. Which implies a victim too young to be betrothed! Which means the only time the Bible says SA is not a punishable crime is when it happens to a child!!!
@@jamelahallsdyer I think what makes this even worse is that I wasn't talking about Christianity, goes to show that the Hebrews weren't unique when it comes to dehumanising women
I think it is extremely important to note that this man’s “solution” to the sexual objectification of a woman’s body being “hey, remember that is someone’s daughter” is fighting a mindset of patriarchal control and entitlement with another mindset of patriarchal control and entitlement. He reveals himself as unable to honor the autonomy and agency of women as individuals, he has to reframe his mindset to honoring another man because that’s all he understands. I’m glad you’re interviewing women about the cost of Christianity specific to that experience because I have spent the last four to five years working through the complexities of it all and I am still shocked at how insidious it is and how it has shaped my relationship with identity and self, especially because I am also queer. Heteronormativity and binary gender roles is not just the evangelical norm but the only worldview they tolerate and its one that harms us all regardless of identity or sexuality.
@@MindShift-Brandon Disgusting but incredibly unsurprising. It baffles me now that I ever accepted “submission to your husband is your choice, it’s basically feminism” as a valid ideology as opposed to questioning why “submission” was even on the table… for anyone. No one should be “submitting” to anyone else in a relationship, that should not be a baseline ANYONE is working from 😭
Excellent point, it's definitely a patriarchal concept to care about women based (basically) on which man "owns" her as a daughter. He could instead try just "remember that women are people, fully capable human beings."
The one I've been waiting for! When I was Christian, this was the topic that I struggled with most. I spent years hating myself and despising my gender because of what the Bible says about women. I used to constantly ask God why I could not have just been a man and why he had to design me this way. It was this topic that led me to further investigate and research my faith, so it is definitely part of what caused me to rethink Christianity. I started my deconstruction journey about 2 months ago, and your videos have been extremely helpful and insightful. I really look forward to this being a series, and I hope it will reach other women who felt the same way I did. Truly, thank you for making these outstanding videos!
Thank you so much for sharing. I am so sorry to hear about your pain at the hands of this supposedly beautiful religion. Congrats on your recent freedom and i feel lucky and honored to be of any help in any way.
I feel so seen by your comment. I feel the same way almost exactly. I grew up as a Mormon so it was misogyny on steroids with polygamy and other messed up stuff. I’m hitting the same wall with Christianity, my last stop before going over the edge of atheism. I’m new to this too, I’m a month in of figuring out what the heck all this is. It’s so painful. I wish both of us the best in our journeys 🥺
There is no Church teaching that states that men are better than women, not one. The Church has been beneficial to women, raising their status and freeing them from objectification.
Here I am as a girl suffering with Body Dysmorphia and Insecurities and God is just making me feel worse. How can God help me if He causes my pain and suffering.
He cant. Hes not real. Dont worry about him. Look to real help by people that really understand the psychological issues you are facing instead of believing that you are worthless and that mental health is about unclean spirits. Hope you will talk to a professional in that area.
Women are not "someone's little girl." Maybe they _were_ but they aren't anymore. Women are their _own_ fully capable adult human beings with their own minds and opinions and strength. Christianity loves to infantilize women, and it's a real problem. Case in point, look how weird it sounds to say the same thing about men: "We've got to treat men well because they're someone's little boy!" If that sounds odd or even insulting to you, it's because you haven't been indoctrinated to see men as forever delicate and childlike the way you have with women. EDIT: I do like the way the OP says it much better "women are someone's children" because you can be someone's child without _being_ a child, a "little girl."
100% agree. the only valuable woman, biblically speaking, was either a young virgin, or an adult woman who knew her place, kept covered, kept quiet, and pleased her man, and popped out babies.
I love that you tackled this subject!!! I would love for you to delve deeper into this. This was the last straw in my deconversion, I became furious with how women are treated and what I find is interesting is how this was the LAST straw for me. Meaning I was so brainwashed that as a woman and physically weaker human, i was programmed to not even notice I had a belief system that was so harmful to me and I wasn’t concerned with my own vulnerability as a woman till the very end. My safety as a woman should have been more on the forefront of my mind but instead I was so worried about being the proper chaste Christian woman waiting on god to bring me a husband. I don’t even want to be married and i feel like I wasted so much of my life being celibate and waiting on some man sent by god to legitimize me, as if I had no value unless some man proved I was valuable by being married, instead of just living life.
You’re not alone. The indoctrination was deep. I had to come to grips with my own internalized misogyny. The Bible will paint this picture that women are nothing without a man, was made from the man for the man and since the first woman sinned, then all women are to be regarded as the weaker, and more prone to be evil sex. As a girl growing up to become a woman, it’s hard not to have low self esteem, hate what you are and you rationalize it with the religion being just and true so you feel powerless to push back on this notion. But like you, I broke free from all of that and I’m glad you did too. 💜
I think that's why they push women into getting married at 18 or shortly after and immediately start having kids. They want to hook them into a relationship which would be very difficult to get out of, thus solidifying a man's hold over her. I'm glad you finally got out! Please keep yourself safe and stand up for yourself. It took me many years after I left my abusive environment to really blossom into a new person. You have to work at it and remind yourself you're awesome. :)
I truly needed this video today. Can’t tell you how long I’ve cried as I’ve gone through the betrayal trauma and reliving the trauma of sexual abuse after leaving the Mormon church and trying to figure out Christianity. It feels like one betrayal after another and like there is no safe place for women in a world that is full of patriarchal religion and government that still grinds women into the ground. I’ve spent my whole life trying to break myself so I fit into the boxes I was always told to fit into and I’m confronted with the emotional labor of trying to deconstruct that and be okay with who and what I am as a woman. It’s so hard.
@@MindShift-Brandon "I can only imagine. But you are free now! Lots of work to do to reframe and deconstruct but the best is yet to come"---- Don't be that guy Mr. MindShift... "the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women" (2 Timothy 3)
@@draxthemsklonst They went out of their way to "crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame" (Hebrews 6) ... and they figured that was helpful.
I find ot fascinating that people have to pray and contemplate seeing other people as.....people. I wish you would do some longer comtent stuff, it's interesting hearing your analysis and take on things as you walk though some of your deconstruction.
Yes the believer has to seek god so much to overcome the nature god gave them and the perception they have about the world because of the book god gave them. lol! And thank you. I've been hesitant to do much longer, but I think we will get there at some point.
When I was quite young (5 - 8) almost all the kids in my neighborhood were girls. I learned quite quickly that they were as fun to play with as the few other boys there. They were all human kids just like me-no better, no worse. Because of my upbringing I always rejected the idea that just because I am a male I am somehow better than any female.
Im still working through your channel, im absolutely enthralled. I deconverted 23 yrs ago at 14 yrs old. You point out every single thing i questioned back then, and why i left. This topic was a HUGE reason for my departure from Christianity. As a woman its so awful to read these things and know people live by these writings. Im married to a Catholic man, but he chooses not to follow these writings, ironic eh? Pretty sure you've talked about the cherry picking many many times including this one lol
You’re great! Thanks for this kindness and support. I am so pleased to hear i can help articulate or normalize your experiences. Glad you got a good one, despite his beliefs lol.
I’ve only ‘liked’ this because it NEEDS shared. Shocking information about the ‘biblical truth’ that I just accepted as grew up in this indoctrination 😢 You have given us lots to think about and consider and reconsider and truly RECOGNISE.
In the 00's, I spent an absurd amount of time at a major forum for Evangelicals (crosswalk, it has since moved to fb and then disappeared, I think). I was an atheist- still am- born and raised in Portugal, but have been curious about the ways in which religion cripples people. And since there is not much information or community about this kind of thing in my own country, American content became part of my daily life, from a fairly young age. All this to say that crosswalk, being a huge forum, had many subsections. These included one for "men" and another for "women", with an honor system keeping anyone from the opposite site to take part in the discussion. I did skim the "men's" section but knowing I was not supposed to be reading it, did not actually browse it. But I did read the "women's" section and...it was horrible. Some topics were harmless but the bulk of the concerns these women issued were about sexual issues and family. There were actual horror stories in which victims reached out for help as their husbands routinely raped them. They did not call it "rape"- at least hardly ever- but that's what it was. "I was tired and did not want to do it", if sex happens, that *is* rape. But almost always, they were not looking for ways of escaping their abusive situations. No, they wanted help from "fellow Christian sisters" on how to "submit". And when they did see it as abuse, they would be told rape cannot happen in marriage. To be fair, a very vocal minority bucked the trend and always replied in such threads to the effect that it was rape and offered resources. But it was the minority, by far. Within hours, a thread about one's husband raping one, would be 90% "learn how to submit", "pray", "trust in the Lord", "talk to the pastor", "take the example of X biblical figure", "your husband is the head of the household", and on and on. It was not against the rules that I, as a nonbeliever accessed this material, but it was against them that I offered advice...and this was hard. At times, it was so hard that I had to take a break. One particular case was so awful that I think I sent the person a PM to the effect of getting her to please seek a more liberal church. There was no way she would leave the religion- not at that point- nor was that what mattered, she needed a support group that would protect her from a husband who had just raped her- and she was in pain and bleeding- and...and words fail one. It made me sick to my stomach. Honestly, even discussions that you'd expect to be harmless, often were so disturbing. I will never forget a woman who proudly stated that she had no interest reading or watching anything that her 8 year old children could not consume!
This is beyond sad but not in the least bit shocking. Thank for sharing it here. This is what you get from this religion. Worse is how many of those women still indoctrinated their own daughters to follow suit for life knowing the harm. Meanwhile the vast majority of those men from those stories were just following the word. Gross to no end!
@@MindShift-Brandon The "family" section of full of mothers who fully expected their daughters to basically act like them. A common theme was mothers complaining that said daughters would not help take care of younger siblings. In a particularly insidious case, a mother was complaining that her older daughter would refuse to babysit younger siblings when she to study for a test. Another that I will never forget, was about a mother who read her 13 year old daughter's diary, where said daughter complained about how that the mother did not afford her any privacy...the mother was complaining, without realizing that by reading the diary without permission, she was proving the daughter right.
It’s rare to see someone talk about this! I’m glad you did. No matter what church I went too, women notoriously outnumbered the men in church. And I never understood why? Men benefit significantly more by being a Christian. Not women lol.
This might be because of passages like Gal 3:28 (Even Celsus said about Christianity caring for quote: "foolish, dishonourable and stupid and slaves, women and little children,"). "And I never understood why? Men benefit significantly more by being Christian. " There is no evidence for this claim.
I'm so glad that I don't need an ancient book to teach me that women are people too! Also, the churches that I went to always told me that any church with a woman pastor was heretical and that the people that go to the church are going to hell.
I love your videos. I am from Puerto Rico and was raised with a christian upbringing. I became an atheist out of sole reasoning and common sense. Latin America is HEAVILY rooted in christianity and misogyny. I have two daughters which I am raising to have moral values and a strong conviction that they are as valuable as any person and can be what they want to be with perseverance and regardless of their sex. Your videos along with other sources makes it easier for me to contextualize answers and explanations against religion. They haven’t shown interest in religion but being that external influences as well as within (certain family members) is so strong, I know eventually they will be approached and hounded with religion. Much appreciated 🙏🏽 Keep doing what you’re doing.
@@MindShift-Brandon I work as a Spanish/English interpreter. I am well experienced with tranlsations. If you are ever interested in making translated content to extend your reach, I’d be more than happy to volunteer.
Sometimes the UA-cam AI behind the algorithm turns mischievous. The other day UA-cam recommended a video of a Catholic theologian making a case of how Jesus was born miraculously without breaking the hymen of Mary, "blessed" with virginity for life. My first thought was, "You have too much time on your hands." My second thought was, "Can't you see the implicit stain that this position imposes on every normal reproductive and sexual act that humans must engage in?" It was pure cringe.
Look at Islam…the men who came up with that doozy decided eternal paradise just wasn’t good enough for men unless they’re also rewarded with 72 virgins…because women are so insignificant that even in heaven their purpose is to be used for the sexual gratification of a man, along with 71 other women. I really don’t understand how any decent person could honestly take that garbage seriously and not realize it’s not nothing more than the barbaric, egocentric fantasies of 2,000+ year old uncivilized men who knew absolutely nothing about the world around them. You know for as desperately as ultra conservative men want to believe that they’re so gosh darn special the entire universe and every thing and one in it was made just for them, they sure do act an awful lot like the other great apes they pretend they’re not related to…the male folk forming coalitions & using their larger size to dominate & split up the female folk amongst themselves…they’re practically talking chimps 😏🤭
You wouldn't be surprised at the anger I get when I tell Catholics that there is NO WAY that Mary stayed a virgin. You think ol' Joe would be ok with never having sex with her? It's a well known fact that they had more children; I can recall for sure James was Jesus' brother. I can only assume that the idea of her not being a virgin after Jesus' birth and Mary's ritual cleansing flummery would destroy the idea of her perfection. I'm just taking a wild-assed-guess here.
As a kid, how Christianity has treated women always at least bugged me. I never had any sisters, but the majority of my cousins on both sides were women, so while my non-family social circle was pretty lacking (that was solely a personal choice - my parents actively tried to push me build that, which I did not like doing due to being fairly anti-social back then), I was hardly lacking in women to interact with. Not once did I fall into a "No Girls Allowed" phase or believe that being a man somehow made me better (I was - and still am - a nerd, so kind of hard to maintain that). It certainly did not help my faith when I started reading the Bible, first because the school curriculum (one of the few things I am grateful to my particular Catholic schooling for) and then out of personal volition. At first, I did what pretty much every Christian did: I cherry-picked and pretended that only what I chose mattered. Sure, even back then, you could have called me a progressive Christian, but obviously, that would no longer suffice. Something had to give, and my then-religious self was surprised that it was comfortable with what did (spoiler below). I remember around this time that someone said to me that the Bible is like a tree's harvest, in that you keep what is good and throw out what is bad. All I could think was, "Well, if a tree produces a mostly bad harvest and has been doing so for _centuries,_ then why would anyone continue cultivating it?" I may not have been sticking with what could be described as the Bible's relationship/marital advice (again, nerd - wasn't exactly in a relationship), but I was able to recognize that it was unacceptable, even for someone like me, a man who supposedly should have all the power. It might not have truly contributed to me leaving Christianity, but it certainly contributed to me not coming back.
So glad you are covering this subject. I have fought myself free from this way of thinking and a marriage of submission. Can't wait to hear more on this subject😊
Fantastic video! You've touched on the ingroup problem at 14:52 - this is so right! The "us vs them" mentality is encouraged by the Bible, leading to so much harm across various aspects of life, like for example men vs women, of heaven vs of this world, of God vs of Devil. I wish you could cover this topic more in-depth in the future, as your presentations are always top-notch :)
My mother was raised by rather strict Christian patents but did not pass that on. She did however have a bible on the top book shelf. I was a smart child and would occasionally pull it down and try to read it. What does this word "elohim" mean Mom? She did not know how to answer that. She did not seem interested in helping me read that big black book so I lost interest. Later as a teenager I tried again. I got as far as the part where woman were to suffer in childbirth and reread that over several times before deciding I did not want to read that book. Over the years I became familiar with other passages where it seemed God did not like women. No wonder my mother had given it up. Now, many years later, the most I could do was read the first four gospels of the new testament over and over until I thought I understood it. Seeing as how Jesus spoke in parables I could see how people could become enthralled with it. The most problematical part was where when asked if the father he spoke with was the same as the old testament Yah weh. His answer was yes. I have read here and there through the old testament. Has a woman I can not see how people still support what I see has a foundation of the old testament. Men rule not just over women but over all creation. When people cherry-pick it can sound nice. I am pretty certain that I understand and have read more of the bible than most Christians. If anything I am an animist and certainly not religious. But I wanted to know what it was all about. It is worse than I could have imagined.
its amazing how Theist says that atheist can never have better morals than God, but yet atheist can arrive to better morals without a God or gods. I. Female and Males are equal. II. Respect each other. III. Communicate with each other. IV. No one is better or above anybody. We all have our positives and negatives. Its through the understanding of these similarities and differences and the acceptance of people, where we can progress as a society. We can all achieve a better society without the shackles of religion.
None of this is true. Males and females are not equal. The Bible had already taught us that we are all one in Christ so there is no need for the false atheistic ‘brotherhood’.
This is a difficult one for me, Brandon. In my church-going days, men didn't mess with me. 1. I was hated by men AND women because to them I was deemed "less than" (but they loved my piano playing for their "worship services) Ironic, eh? 2. Men FEARED me because I made it clear that I submit to NO ONE. 3. When much younger, a WOMAN creeped me out when she told me that my looks could get me "into a world of trouble." 🤔 I am a very strange case in the Christian cosmology. I was "different."
The Bible shows the general mindset of the people living 2000+ years ago. Women were seen as just a piece of meat. The Bible doesn't change. Fortunately some people do and they've come to the conclusion that women are equal to men a have to be treated accordingly. 13:14 to 15:50 was awesome 😎
100%! Thankfully much change has happened like you mentioned.But where it hasnt changed, the bible and other holy books like it are in large part to blame! and thank you!
1 Timothy 2:9 and 1 Peter 3:3, among other things, direct that women shall not wear gold or pearls. (Apparently it is okay for men wear such). Years ago when I was a christian, most of the women in our church wore gold if it was nothing more than engagement and wedding rings, or gold necklaces from which hung gold crosses. As scandalous as that was, they even wore it IN CHURCH. Strangely, none of the men in the church ever reprimanded them for this. I guess the men were obeying the commandment judge not that ye be not judged. But, for further irony, in most cases, it was the men who gave them the gold rings and other items to wear, thus making the men complicit in this sin. When I was 8 and 9 years old, I was in the church choir. We were awarded a small metal pin to wear if we showed up for a certain number of consecutive choir practice sessions. If we continued to show up for specific intervals, we could turn in our pins, a tiny, genuine pearl would be inserted in it, and the pin would be returned to us. An additional pearl was added each time we showed up for a specific interval. We proudly wore these pins whenever we sang before the church. The choir director was a woman and the pins with the pearls were awarded to boys AND GIRLS. No man in the church ever reprimanded the female choir director for awarding the girls the pearls, or reprimanded the girls for wearing the pins with the pearls.
When a man accepts the biblical BS, guilt soon follows. It will not take long before this guilt turns to anger against women because they care causing the man to lust. The man then blames the women for their lust. You will often see the image of a beaten, abused, and murdered woman, and standing over her destroyed body stands an angry man who shouts "LOOK AT WHAT YOU MADE ME DO".
That is obviously not the case for all men who read the bible, but i think what you have here is still very fair for a large group of abusive men within the belief. There is nothing good to get from this book in this regard, either people ignore it, or if they live their life by it, the harm is possible.
You just described my stepdad…😢 he said it was my fault that he gRaped me. He made me read the Bible and pray to god for forgiveness after he was done assaulting me. Mind you this started when I was 11 and didn’t stop till I ran away at 17. For the longest time, I carried the burden that it was my fault and because I was a girl, I caused him to sin…💔
Basically, don’t do anything the way god wants you to, when it comes to women. It’s 2:23 in the morning after a long trip back to FL from Colorado, yet I MUST watch this!!
Scriptures like this convinced me that the inerrant and inspired word of God was no such thing. It began with Genesis 1-11 which is a clear human mythology without any divine inspiration. It continues the more I read.
I'm glad that my ex-husband was an atheist! Because even though he was perfectly loyal to me throughout our 10-year marriage, he would always look overtly at beautiful women, even in my presence. Was there lust in his eyes? I don't know and I never bothered to know, because what mattered to me was his honesty and loyalty and he would never see a woman as a piece of meat.
You think all he did was look? If he did it when he was out with you, I can't imagine what he was doing when you were not in his company. And you believe he was faithful. You poor thing.
This was one of the biggest things that put me off. Having to grow up watching my mother deny her own desires and make of herself less than a full adult human being just because she happened to be born female. The appalling misogyny that permeates the Bible is indefensible. The crap they fed us in Sunday school about how "we're all equal in God's eyes" made me laugh looking back. No we're not; if you're a woman you're quite a bit less valuable in God's eyes. It's sad that this Bronze Age gender ideology is still used today. But I'm looking forward to your further content on this topic. Would love to see you do a take on some of Girl Defined's videos. ;)
@@MindShift-Brandon Girl Defined is extremely toxic in my opinion, and does serious harm to women and men as well actually. I would also love to hear your take on it!
9:44 "These are direct orders from God (...) this isn't just a reflection of men's culture at that time in history". But that's exactly what it is. A reflection of men's culture, placed by men into God's mouth to make it seem justified.
I am really appreciating your content. Common-sense refutations of common Christian arguments. Do you have any plans for a book? I would love to have this material in written/digital form.
Thats very kind of you, thank you. Literature is my first love, and I'd love to build a big enough platform to get to the point where I could put out some written works. Maybe far in the future!
Nowadays even Bart Ehrman, six times NYT bestselling author, makes UA-cam videos/podcasts and online video courses. These new media formats have a wider reach and appeal than traditional books so it makes sense to concentrate one’s effort on them. PS UA-cam offers the transcript of videos. I never tried it myself but I guess that people who are keen on having a written version of a video they particularly like can copy and save the transcript.
@@MindShift-Brandon I have read a ton of both Apologist and Atheist literature as I struggled to hear both sides and tried to hang on to my faith. But I think you have a gift of cutting through the BS and expressing in common sense layman terms the hypocrisy, inconsistency and cruelty of many of the Christian doctrines - in a way that anyone can understand. And your knowledge of the Bible and your history contributes a perspective that is unique as well. Your content is both approachable and intellectually honest at the same time. Happy to have found your channel. I will be watching (down the road) for an eventual book!
The whole “that’s someone’s daughter” line of reasoning is very strange to me and I don’t think it’s really “empowering” for women. I mean is it appealing to the fact that some dude will feel bad if you have naughty thoughts about her? Besides the thought crime ridiculousness, is the reason not to SA her because it will hurt some dude? Why is it so hard for some men to realize that women are actual people in and of themselves? When creating the Ten Commandments maybe 2 of the first worthless four could have been; women are people and don’t assault people.
Brandon, as a married man, have the dynamics of your marriage been affected by your deconversion and how you view women? Or simply put, did you/do you live out the role assigned by religion and culture to be the head of the household? Thank you as always for a great video!
My pleasure, good question. My wife and I, like many progressive christians (which is what I moved into in my adult years) were pretty darn choosey about which parts of the bible we listened to and took seriously. So thankfully we didn't get trapped into any bad dynamics early on, despite all the bad advice. My wife and I both work and we both take care of the kids. There are some traditional gender role things that occur within our marriage simply based off the tradition of what we both grew up in and the influence from our friends and family and culture as well as because some parts my wife still really believes in from her own faith.But I would never say its the only way to have a successful marriage and the only real change to come from my deconversion is our negotiating boundaries around things like prayer, bible studies, church attendance, conversations with kids, in law stuff etc. Thankfully our personal relationship has only grown closer as we have had to really work hard to not let this separate us. I think any upheaval will do that. You either both lean in, or take a step back. We leaned in. I'm sure I'll do a video more in depth around this discussion in the future.
@@mr.goldenproductions_0143 you trying to button down all women as culturally inferior to men shows you have no experience with women. Or you're just really dumb. Probably both.
Hey Brandon, I could really use your help, mate. I've been struggling with some tough stuff like social anxiety, depression, and sometimes even thinking about ending it all. I can't chat with my folks about it, they just pull the religion card and it doesn't help me at all. I need some insight from a non-believer's perspective. What would you do if you were in my shoes? And have you ever felt depressed before?
My man. Its all normal. Especially when you are younger. I had pretty bad depression when i was younger and my wife deals with clinical anxiety. Especially with any kind of ending thoughts, please please go talk to a professional. Theres no shame, they have the tools and resources to help your specifics. All i can say, especially if you are younger, is it passes and or gets better. Theres always hope. Even as a nonbeliever i am so glad to be here. To choose everyday on my own and make meaning and make beauty. Email me if you want or need to talk further but step 1, friend, is talking to a pro.
Definitely some unsettling things to say the least... I think a big challenge for Christianity is the reconcile that Jesus and YHWH are one and the same God. Jesus certainly treated women far better than the OT God and the Jews of that period. Between his mother Mary telling him to change water into wine and Mary Magdalene (in one of the Gospels) being the first to witness the resurrection, Jesus was cool with elevating women's status within the group. All this is to say, harmonizing the whole Bible is one heck of a task, and I honestly just don't know. Anyway, wish you well. Your stuff is always fascinating.
If you read the the "scripture" objectively you can easily see how God, actually the Popes who ordered the "scripture" written, despises women for simply being as they were created.
It is bible verses like that, which is why I stopped believing. I cannot defend a god who allows this kind of behavior. And if I behave like how the Bible describes, of course, i'm going to jail or worse.
For some reason, I suspect that line attributed to Jesus about looking at a woman lustfully was added later. No real logical reason to think that. But is sounds very much like something Puritans would sneak in.
man-made and man-made by a culture and time that did not treat women as equals. its that simple. Its so sad all these women praise this god who isnt real and wouldnt care for them if he were.
@@MindShift-Brandon It's very sad that women praise a god who has no respect for them at all. It is self-evident that men invented a god who reflected their barbaric culture. Their god was so uncivilised that he actually needed a human sacrifice, and that was considered logical in their culture.
Right or better yet. All people are people. No need to even have to envision someone as infantilized to humanize them. People are people. Johnny hoy here, is failing on multiple levels
Oh for sure didn’t mean you. Was in reference to john. The realization should have been. Woman are people too and thus deserve my respect not finally being able to view women as deserving respect because a. they are young and virginal and innocent and/or b. They are other men’s daughters. Both just kick the can down the field imo.
@@MindShift-Brandon FYI Didn't think you meant me. I don't have a deeply seeded religious pedigree (not for lack of trying, by some) so I don't understand that kind of thinking. Fact is, I don't have a "deconversion story" because I was pretty much a skeptic from the start. By the time I was ten or eleven my minister, SS teachers, parents were failing so gloriously at answering my questions, I wasn't having it. Guess I'm one of the lucky ones. With sports it was one of my only chances to socialize, so I went along to go along until I was eighteen. I'm 62 and probably haven't picked up a bible since.
right. He must infantilize these adult women in order to view them nonsexually. Thats already messed up, but worse is that according to his bible, the most sexually attractive women were the young, chaste, virgins.
I get a lot out of this as an atheist but I really think your content is perfect for a believer that is starting to see the contradictions in the bible. It’s so clearly an antiquated attempt at morality written by men. Any modern person could construct a more ethical system. Love your content.
Timestamp 12:47 - "I’d love to make a bible that’s zoooop!" The Holy Pamplet! 😂😂😂 I have never used a blanket term such every woman is someone’s little girl. But if I’m debating someone about stuff like this, I DO tell them that I imagine there is at least one important female in that person’s life and I am certain that they wouldn’t want the biblical version of treatment towards women and girls to be applied to that person. I’m starting to lose faith in that idea, though. The more I observe and engage, the more I believe some folks are hopelessly lost.
So many Pastors and Christians share this same type of goofy enthusiasm as John Bevere when they claim they had a religious epiphany. I used to be impressed by that, but now I am insulted by it.
A: Hey, did you see that vid by Mindshift titled "Should We View Women The Way God Does?" ? C: Ah yes, but you see, Jeesus gave us a new covenant A: But this is God's word that should be followed to the letter should it not? C: Yes, but that was for the olden days, bygone times. Now we have the new covenant A: It's Gods' word, right? C: Yes, yes, of course, but the new covenant.... A: It says here "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." C: Oh you just don't understand the *context* Jeesus is a loving god, he treats women like angels.... A: Tell me, was Jeesus obedient to God, or rebellious. I mean did Jeesus have fights and disagree with God a lot ? C: Of course not!!! Never!!!. Don't be silly. Jeesus believes and thinks exactly in accordance with his Father. He is completely at one with the Father A: OK. I guess then that Jeesus approved of every instruction his dad gave in the Old Testament, as pointed out in this video ? b...bu...but.....Dammit. Y'all just don't understand the *CONTEXT* foolish non-believers!
lol! if only this was actual satire not directly the conversations I see daily. Thanks for the chuckles and the call out of the ridiculous doublespeak from the christian community.
The story that Eve was tempted by the serpent because she was more fickle than her husband and then manipulated him into eating the apple too is probably the most damaging story there has ever been in western civilization. All of us as humans - men and women alike - have a very large weak and sinful side to us - not that that side is the whole picture. It is morally despicable and criminal for the bearded fucker who wrote Genesis to imply that women are weaker and more sinful than men. And it is far more powerful and criminal as a slippery implication from a story than a direct (and utterly false) statement.
That men do not want to let go of this bronze age worldview is already very "beyond belief" to me, (but then again men can dominate their women, right???) But that women cling so strongly to this very women-degrading worldview is even more extremely unbelievable to me.
@@MindShift-BrandonThis is something I would like to hear your perspective on further as I often struggle with “progressive Christianity” for this very reason. While I recognize that for many, their faith and “relationship” with Christ is integral to their well-being… I can’t help but wonder why they cling to a religion that requires selective reading and selective theology to be palatable to them when they can find everything they supposedly receive from “God” entirely from themselves. Belief, I suppose? We can’t choose what we believe so maybe it’s rooted in that.
Another great one Brandon. That JB video clip is a perfect example of pretzel logic. No way did Psalm 8 trigger a “somebody’s little girl” revelation. That came from secular culture and he prayed and read and prayed etc and Psalm 8 is what he came up with. So weak. Also- Why do I have the soundtrack of Born Free stuck in my head now? .
I really don't get people acting like admiring beauty and recognizing dignity are mutually exclusive. Are my choices to see my girlfriend as either hot or as a person? Are attractive women supposed to be worth less? It's so backwards and weird. The dude's problem (at least that he stated in his video) wasn't that he was attracted to women, it's that he thought that meant he couldn't see them as people simultaneously.
Moses said the little girls could be kept by his armies. "Marriage" used to be merely r@ping a girl and then paying a few monies to her father. Let's not forget the generations upon generations upon generations of boys raised to see this as the mind of a good and normal loving God.
Welcome, all!
Just going by the title, I'm going to say, "Absolutely NOT!!"
“So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies.”
He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
@@japexican007 Did you watch the video? Brandon admits (and I agree) that you can cherry-pick some good passages, but the story changes when you dig a little deeper. Even New Testament times weren't so rosy, since the misogyny was there in full force.
I had previously viewed your videos as misguided, but cogent attempts at sincere critique. I have revised that previous estimation. You really dropped the ball on this one... sorry.
Have you never stopped to consider that you simply would have none of these liberal Western sentiments which you claim to hold in such high esteem, but for the Judeo-Christian tradition?
see also:
Holland, Tom "Dominion: How the Christian Revolution Remade the World" 2019
@@andrewferg8737 that brings up a lot of questions. Does that mean Brandon's pro-woman sentiment *is* Chridtian? If so, great. If not, then what does it say that this apparently non-Christian sentiment grows out of Christian teaching? Does the idea that liberal values grow out of Christianity imply Christianity is literally true? If we accept liberal values as good, and those values contradict Christian tradition, does it matter if they arose from Christianity? And if liberal values are not good because they contradict true Christianity, then why bother crediting Christianity as the source? And what does it mean that something inside the Judeo-Christian tradition arose as a new worldview that opposes so much of that same tradition?
To say a woman is somebody’s “little girl” is to infantilize her and to say her value is derived from her father, at least until he “gives her away” (or sells her). She continues as immature and as property.
yes its gross. and apparently was the only way this guy could stop himself from lusting, becasuse if she was a woman, shed be open meat on the market to him.
We don't know what kind of pornography he was looking at.
I think this is a bit of a stretch. If we steel man him I think it's easy to see that what he means is he should treat all women the same way he would treat his own daughter, specifically with respect and dignity rather than an object of lust not that a woman's value is derived from her property value- though that is what the Bible says
Exactly. Literally no one has ever said "treat men well because they are someone's little boy/son." Everyone has a mother and father (at least biologically), so it's not like it's not true that everyone's is someone's son or daughter, it's just that it's a dumb distinction to make based on the person's gender. How about treating everyone like they inherently have value and are worthy of respect?
Exactly he does not see women as they are nor as equals. Zero awakening
The “she’s someone’s daughter” always makes me angry: as if somehow the only way I’m worth anything is in relation to a man, not that I have value in and of myself as a human being. As if somehow I am less than human because of my gender.
100% he is still missing the mark here big time.
No matter what, unless there is a DNA test, the paternity of a baby can ALWAYS be in question. Only the biological mother of any baby is guaranteed at delivery. This has always led to trying to control a woman's vagina and uterus.
BTW
Eve partaking of the fruit of the tree of knowledge (of good an evil) is because it was EVE that figured out that when coitus took place the outcome was often the production of progeny. The outcome happened to HER; her breasts started getting sensitive and heavy, she stopped bleeding every month, her body started changing. Women were the one's who put together the construct of the "consequences for actions;" the if:then statement, with which the conclusion of same took us out of the "paradise" of being animals that do not relate the sexual act to the ultimate delivery of the baby. This knowledge, as stated, took us out of the paradise of being animals; we coul no longer fu@k with impunity.
Once males became aware of this fact as well the entire course of history was changed. It takes resources and work to raise progeny and I can believe most males decided they didn't want to be saddled with raising other males' "good time" babies.
Go figure.
How being someone’s daughter makes you less than?
@@irinasolomina1800 No, the thing is that the guy only realized women are worthy of some consideration after realizing they are the daughters of some other men.
@@juanausensi499No, because they are the daughter of their moms as well. It has nothing to do with gender. Someone could equally say (if women had just as much of sexual lust issues as men) “that’s someone’s son.” I think the demeaning part is in the fact that someone is only respected in light of considering their parents. It’s a stupid “epiphany” of the guy, but at least better than nothing.
I don’t know why he would need a book to convince him that women are humans deserving of respect… That is concerning…
Yes this wasnt the win he thought
@@MindShift-Brandonfr tho lmao
To be fair, he was talking about how to control his lust.
I was a Christian for 30 years and went to a evangelical fundamentalist church so I lived under the burden of submission to my husband, in bed and out. The Bible has a horrible and disgusting view of women. I’ve been agnostic now for 10 years and I still struggle with trauma of having lived most of my life without feeling I had the rights of ownership over my own body.
So sorry to hear that. Yes its abhorrent! Wishing you well and so glad to hear you made it out.
I'm glad you got out! My sister-in-law was homeschooled and everything by her EXTREMELY Christian family. Like, one step removed from Handmaid's Tale type stuff. Thankfully, she started asking questions and was able to break away from that disgusting mentality but not until after she got married at 18 to a very abusive guy who gaslighted her into having a baby so she wouldn't leave him. Because of her upbringing, she felt she had to stay with him and maybe their relationship was normal. It wasn't until she got some time away from him was she able to rationalize the relationship was wrong and divorced him. I was fortunate. I realized at a young age Christianity hates women so I stopped buying into the hype. But I've always been hyper aware of women suffering throughout history and from various cultures.
I’m so sorry that happened to you Christianity can be harmful
That’s why they’ve taken abortion rights away. The bible thumpers were behind that.
@@Brendaglam24 : it happens mostly in fundamental christian cults or communities that women get treated like property or home slaves. Disgusting.
When I was a little girl growing up in the pre-Vatican II Catholic Church watching the altar boys accompany the colorfully-clad priest up the center aisle to the altar, which I could not set foot on, being a girl, I remember thinking, "God must not like little girls very much." And that was LONG before I started reading the Bible!
He. Im with you here but the funny thing little girls is the only girls this god likes as the young virginal ones are quite literally the only ones he finds of worth.
😢
@@MindShift-BrandonThat's only if you believe that Moses was speaking for God. Not even most Jews believe that. It is doubtful that Moses existed.
@@MindShift-Brandonsmh
@@visamannah it's facts
It took John until he was 57 and had 5 grown kids, to realise that his wife Lisa is someone's daughter.
Lol, right.
Lmao 😊
Where's your citation for his agedness
@jamelahallsdyer I wouldn't say he
appears excessively aged for a half-centennial old man 👴 🧓
?????
He needed to read the bible to realize that every woman is someone's daughter? What did he think before, they were just made out of ribs?
I totally agree with you that women in religious marriages of many faiths can be abused mentally, emotionally and physically, justified by the words in their husband's particular special book.
In an atheist relationship we don't get to justify our actions by pointing to someone else's edited words from a 2,000 year old scroll, we have to work things out one by one.
lol about the ribs joke! and yes you summed it up very well! Its a point I would have liked to expand on better. Not all believers treat the women in their life poorly of course, but that would be in opposition to what their book says. And not all atheist are moral and treat the women in their life great, but if they don't its not because some god told them to and they cant pass the buck.
I have two daughters. They have both become two free-thinking adults. And I'm proud of that.
The ribs 🤣🤣🤣
I can confirm, I am made out of ribs and nothing else!
@@MindShift-Brandon Clearly you haven’t studied the Hebrew Bible. God honors women.
Isn't it wild the best he can come up with is that a woman is a person only in relation to someone else? You can only humanize them because they are someone's (presumably a father's) daughter? What about, "wow, that earthling is an earthling with their own wonder and value.
ha, love how you put that. It is sad indeed.
Imagine being like 40 and having this realization that women were once little girls. Great job guy.
Right?! And then the only way to see them as equal is to consider that they mean something to another man. Gross
That's simultaneously hilarious and horrendous 🤣
About 6 months ago a woman was telling me why abortion was bad and gave me a lecture. After she finished I said that I didn't want my daughter to not be considered anything more than a breed slave by the Chruch or Government. She really got pissed at me and said "please not say that"'
I elected to not say more because I knew it would do no good. Plus I didn't want to look at her anymore.
I really think that's why they overturned Roe v Wade wasn't to save children's lives, but to have more children to SA in the churches and religious establishments🤬
@@mickeydecuriousus women are doomed
Next time someone says that God is against abortion, open the Bible with them and show them Numbers 5.
@exaucemayunga22 You are giving an impeccable sermon 👏 🙌 👌 ❤️
The fact that this dude needed a Bible to tell him every woman is someone’s daughter. I don’t understand people who need religion to be a good person.
One of the things i hate about my religion is that rape is forbidden not because its painful and bad for the women. NO! its because said woman are the property of their husbands, fathers and brothers. Like damn bro so if shes an orphan she is free to be used and abused? Truly disgusting for someone who claims to love you more than your parents ever could
Right?!
Very good observation , screw the Bible atp
That was one of many things I noticed when I decided to become a better Christian by reading the bible cover to cover several times. From Genesis to Revelations it was riddled with atrocities. I couldn't believe such a petty, spiteful, egotistical being should be worshiped. ✌🖖
Technically, the Bible gives the same punishment to men for SA as for consensual sex, no better, no worse. The only loophole is if the victim is not married or betrothed, then he only has to marry her. Back when girls were married off at 11-12.
Which implies a victim too young to be betrothed! Which means the only time the Bible says SA is not a punishable crime is when it happens to a child!!!
@@jamelahallsdyer I think what makes this even worse is that I wasn't talking about Christianity, goes to show that the Hebrews weren't unique when it comes to dehumanising women
I think it is extremely important to note that this man’s “solution” to the sexual objectification of a woman’s body being “hey, remember that is someone’s daughter” is fighting a mindset of patriarchal control and entitlement with another mindset of patriarchal control and entitlement. He reveals himself as unable to honor the autonomy and agency of women as individuals, he has to reframe his mindset to honoring another man because that’s all he understands.
I’m glad you’re interviewing women about the cost of Christianity specific to that experience because I have spent the last four to five years working through the complexities of it all and I am still shocked at how insidious it is and how it has shaped my relationship with identity and self, especially because I am also queer. Heteronormativity and binary gender roles is not just the evangelical norm but the only worldview they tolerate and its one that harms us all regardless of identity or sexuality.
yes, i wish I would have hit on this harder. Its just disgusting to see him go from worse to bad without understanding the concept at all!
@@MindShift-Brandon Disgusting but incredibly unsurprising. It baffles me now that I ever accepted “submission to your husband is your choice, it’s basically feminism” as a valid ideology as opposed to questioning why “submission” was even on the table… for anyone. No one should be “submitting” to anyone else in a relationship, that should not be a baseline ANYONE is working from 😭
Excellent point, it's definitely a patriarchal concept to care about women based (basically) on which man "owns" her as a daughter. He could instead try just "remember that women are people, fully capable human beings."
Amen!
First thing that stuck out to me.
That person matters because they belong to somebody.
Bruh....
The one I've been waiting for! When I was Christian, this was the topic that I struggled with most. I spent years hating myself and despising my gender because of what the Bible says about women. I used to constantly ask God why I could not have just been a man and why he had to design me this way. It was this topic that led me to further investigate and research my faith, so it is definitely part of what caused me to rethink Christianity.
I started my deconstruction journey about 2 months ago, and your videos have been extremely helpful and insightful. I really look forward to this being a series, and I hope it will reach other women who felt the same way I did. Truly, thank you for making these outstanding videos!
Thank you so much for sharing. I am so sorry to hear about your pain at the hands of this supposedly beautiful religion. Congrats on your recent freedom and i feel lucky and honored to be of any help in any way.
I feel so seen by your comment. I feel the same way almost exactly. I grew up as a Mormon so it was misogyny on steroids with polygamy and other messed up stuff. I’m hitting the same wall with Christianity, my last stop before going over the edge of atheism. I’m new to this too, I’m a month in of figuring out what the heck all this is. It’s so painful. I wish both of us the best in our journeys 🥺
There is no Church teaching that states that men are better than women, not one. The Church has been beneficial to women, raising their status and freeing them from objectification.
@@juliabriggs1141 Yeah julia, and huffing glue triples your IQ!
Welcome to the deconstruction community! We're all here, hoping to heal together 💗
Here I am as a girl suffering with Body Dysmorphia and Insecurities and God is just making me feel worse. How can God help me if He causes my pain and suffering.
He cant. Hes not real. Dont worry about him. Look to real help by people that really understand the psychological issues you are facing instead of believing that you are worthless and that mental health is about unclean spirits. Hope you will talk to a professional in that area.
Thank you I definitely will. However there's a movie called "Miracles from Heaven" . I'd love your take on it.
Women are not "someone's little girl." Maybe they _were_ but they aren't anymore. Women are their _own_ fully capable adult human beings with their own minds and opinions and strength. Christianity loves to infantilize women, and it's a real problem.
Case in point, look how weird it sounds to say the same thing about men: "We've got to treat men well because they're someone's little boy!" If that sounds odd or even insulting to you, it's because you haven't been indoctrinated to see men as forever delicate and childlike the way you have with women.
EDIT: I do like the way the OP says it much better "women are someone's children" because you can be someone's child without _being_ a child, a "little girl."
What do you about guys who believe they are girls and then get to play against them and use their locker rooms?
@@Justas399why am I not surprised that a Christian puppet with mindless talking points is also a transphobe?
@@Justas399 oh nice we got a transphobic mf lurking 😑
Thank you! This was my first reaction, too. Apparently the path to being seen as human is being infantilized.
100% agree. the only valuable woman, biblically speaking, was either a young virgin, or an adult woman who knew her place, kept covered, kept quiet, and pleased her man, and popped out babies.
I love that you tackled this subject!!! I would love for you to delve deeper into this. This was the last straw in my deconversion, I became furious with how women are treated and what I find is interesting is how this was the LAST straw for me. Meaning I was so brainwashed that as a woman and physically weaker human, i was programmed to not even notice I had a belief system that was so harmful to me and I wasn’t concerned with my own vulnerability as a woman till the very end. My safety as a woman should have been more on the forefront of my mind but instead I was so worried about being the proper chaste Christian woman waiting on god to bring me a husband. I don’t even want to be married and i feel like I wasted so much of my life being celibate and waiting on some man sent by god to legitimize me, as if I had no value unless some man proved I was valuable by being married, instead of just living life.
I am so very happy you made it out! I too was stuck for so long but your story is so interesting as a woman
You’re not alone. The indoctrination was deep. I had to come to grips with my own internalized misogyny. The Bible will paint this picture that women are nothing without a man, was made from the man for the man and since the first woman sinned, then all women are to be regarded as the weaker, and more prone to be evil sex. As a girl growing up to become a woman, it’s hard not to have low self esteem, hate what you are and you rationalize it with the religion being just and true so you feel powerless to push back on this notion. But like you, I broke free from all of that and I’m glad you did too. 💜
My sister , u are not alone reading what you went through caused pain in my heart
@@iaminevitable_I'm happy for you, I screenshot this comment so that it can help me as well when I'm depressed.😊
I think that's why they push women into getting married at 18 or shortly after and immediately start having kids. They want to hook them into a relationship which would be very difficult to get out of, thus solidifying a man's hold over her. I'm glad you finally got out! Please keep yourself safe and stand up for yourself. It took me many years after I left my abusive environment to really blossom into a new person. You have to work at it and remind yourself you're awesome. :)
I truly needed this video today. Can’t tell you how long I’ve cried as I’ve gone through the betrayal trauma and reliving the trauma of sexual abuse after leaving the Mormon church and trying to figure out Christianity. It feels like one betrayal after another and like there is no safe place for women in a world that is full of patriarchal religion and government that still grinds women into the ground. I’ve spent my whole life trying to break myself so I fit into the boxes I was always told to fit into and I’m confronted with the emotional labor of trying to deconstruct that and be okay with who and what I am as a woman. It’s so hard.
I can only imagine. But you are free now! Lots of work to do to reframe and deconstruct but the best is yet to come
@@MindShift-Brandon "I can only imagine. But you are free now! Lots of work to do to reframe and deconstruct but the best is yet to come"----
Don't be that guy Mr. MindShift... "the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women" (2 Timothy 3)
@@andrewferg8737
You went out of your way to insult both people and figured that was helpful.
@@draxthemsklonst They went out of their way to "crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame" (Hebrews 6) ... and they figured that was helpful.
@@andrewferg8737
Quote or no quote, that's your opinion and says more about your own psyche & persona than anything else.
I find ot fascinating that people have to pray and contemplate seeing other people as.....people.
I wish you would do some longer comtent stuff, it's interesting hearing your analysis and take on things as you walk though some of your deconstruction.
Yes the believer has to seek god so much to overcome the nature god gave them and the perception they have about the world because of the book god gave them. lol! And thank you. I've been hesitant to do much longer, but I think we will get there at some point.
It's pretty tragic, isn't it?
When I was quite young (5 - 8) almost all the kids in my neighborhood were girls. I learned quite quickly that they were as fun to play with as the few other boys there. They were all human kids just like me-no better, no worse. Because of my upbringing I always rejected the idea that just because I am a male I am somehow better than any female.
How it should be and i think how most would come to it naturally if not for these kind of indoctrinations
Why didn’t you dump Christianity then since you realized that god is a monster?
Im still working through your channel, im absolutely enthralled. I deconverted 23 yrs ago at 14 yrs old. You point out every single thing i questioned back then, and why i left. This topic was a HUGE reason for my departure from Christianity. As a woman its so awful to read these things and know people live by these writings. Im married to a Catholic man, but he chooses not to follow these writings, ironic eh? Pretty sure you've talked about the cherry picking many many times including this one lol
You’re great! Thanks for this kindness and support. I am so pleased to hear i can help articulate or normalize your experiences. Glad you got a good one, despite his beliefs lol.
Makes it easy to see why Mary would lie about a virgin conception.
She did not lie that is why they needed to run to Egypt
The Bible didn't create misogyny or the Patriarchy, but it did codify them.
Exactly!
I’ve only ‘liked’ this because it NEEDS shared. Shocking information about the ‘biblical truth’ that I just accepted as grew up in this indoctrination 😢
You have given us lots to think about and consider and reconsider and truly RECOGNISE.
I am surprised that any woman would embrace Abrahamism.
Gal 3:28 come to mind?
In the 00's, I spent an absurd amount of time at a major forum for Evangelicals (crosswalk, it has since moved to fb and then disappeared, I think). I was an atheist- still am- born and raised in Portugal, but have been curious about the ways in which religion cripples people. And since there is not much information or community about this kind of thing in my own country, American content became part of my daily life, from a fairly young age.
All this to say that crosswalk, being a huge forum, had many subsections. These included one for "men" and another for "women", with an honor system keeping anyone from the opposite site to take part in the discussion. I did skim the "men's" section but knowing I was not supposed to be reading it, did not actually browse it.
But I did read the "women's" section and...it was horrible. Some topics were harmless but the bulk of the concerns these women issued were about sexual issues and family.
There were actual horror stories in which victims reached out for help as their husbands routinely raped them. They did not call it "rape"- at least hardly ever- but that's what it was. "I was tired and did not want to do it", if sex happens, that *is* rape. But almost always, they were not looking for ways of escaping their abusive situations. No, they wanted help from "fellow Christian sisters" on how to "submit".
And when they did see it as abuse, they would be told rape cannot happen in marriage. To be fair, a very vocal minority bucked the trend and always replied in such threads to the effect that it was rape and offered resources. But it was the minority, by far.
Within hours, a thread about one's husband raping one, would be 90% "learn how to submit", "pray", "trust in the Lord", "talk to the pastor", "take the example of X biblical figure", "your husband is the head of the household", and on and on.
It was not against the rules that I, as a nonbeliever accessed this material, but it was against them that I offered advice...and this was hard. At times, it was so hard that I had to take a break.
One particular case was so awful that I think I sent the person a PM to the effect of getting her to please seek a more liberal church. There was no way she would leave the religion- not at that point- nor was that what mattered, she needed a support group that would protect her from a husband who had just raped her- and she was in pain and bleeding- and...and words fail one.
It made me sick to my stomach.
Honestly, even discussions that you'd expect to be harmless, often were so disturbing. I will never forget a woman who proudly stated that she had no interest reading or watching anything that her 8 year old children could not consume!
This is beyond sad but not in the least bit shocking. Thank for sharing it here. This is what you get from this religion. Worse is how many of those women still indoctrinated their own daughters to follow suit for life knowing the harm. Meanwhile the vast majority of those men from those stories were just following the word. Gross to no end!
@@MindShift-Brandon The "family" section of full of mothers who fully expected their daughters to basically act like them.
A common theme was mothers complaining that said daughters would not help take care of younger siblings. In a particularly insidious case, a mother was complaining that her older daughter would refuse to babysit younger siblings when she to study for a test.
Another that I will never forget, was about a mother who read her 13 year old daughter's diary, where said daughter complained about how that the mother did not afford her any privacy...the mother was complaining, without realizing that by reading the diary without permission, she was proving the daughter right.
It’s rare to see someone talk about this! I’m glad you did. No matter what church I went too, women notoriously outnumbered the men in church. And I never understood why? Men benefit significantly more by being a Christian. Not women lol.
This might be because of passages like Gal 3:28 (Even Celsus said about Christianity caring for quote: "foolish, dishonourable and stupid and slaves, women and little children,").
"And I never understood why? Men benefit significantly more by being Christian. "
There is no evidence for this claim.
I'm so glad that I don't need an ancient book to teach me that women are people too!
Also, the churches that I went to always told me that any church with a woman pastor was heretical and that the people that go to the church are going to hell.
oh boy, isnt it insane. People think im making that stuff up when I tell them.
I love your videos. I am from Puerto Rico and was raised with a christian upbringing. I became an atheist out of sole reasoning and common sense. Latin America is HEAVILY rooted in christianity and misogyny. I have two daughters which I am raising to have moral values and a strong conviction that they are as valuable as any person and can be what they want to be with perseverance and regardless of their sex. Your videos along with other sources makes it easier for me to contextualize answers and explanations against religion. They haven’t shown interest in religion but being that external influences as well as within (certain family members) is so strong, I know eventually they will be approached and hounded with religion.
Much appreciated 🙏🏽 Keep doing what you’re doing.
Thank you so much for that!
@@MindShift-Brandon I work as a Spanish/English interpreter. I am well experienced with tranlsations. If you are ever interested in making translated content to extend your reach, I’d be more than happy to volunteer.
@arnaldorivera4658 thank you for that!
Sometimes the UA-cam AI behind the algorithm turns mischievous. The other day UA-cam recommended a video of a Catholic theologian making a case of how Jesus was born miraculously without breaking the hymen of Mary, "blessed" with virginity for life. My first thought was, "You have too much time on your hands." My second thought was, "Can't you see the implicit stain that this position imposes on every normal reproductive and sexual act that humans must engage in?" It was pure cringe.
Gross! i hate this stupid, barbaric religion so much. The sexual hang ups of the abrahamic religions are without equal.
@@MindShift-Brandon Buddhism has plenty of this as well, with the Buddha having been born form his mother's thigh. No icky vajayjay birth.
Look at Islam…the men who came up with that doozy decided eternal paradise just wasn’t good enough for men unless they’re also rewarded with 72 virgins…because women are so insignificant that even in heaven their purpose is to be used for the sexual gratification of a man, along with 71 other women. I really don’t understand how any decent person could honestly take that garbage seriously and not realize it’s not nothing more than the barbaric, egocentric fantasies of 2,000+ year old uncivilized men who knew absolutely nothing about the world around them. You know for as desperately as ultra conservative men want to believe that they’re so gosh darn special the entire universe and every thing and one in it was made just for them, they sure do act an awful lot like the other great apes they pretend they’re not related to…the male folk forming coalitions & using their larger size to dominate & split up the female folk amongst themselves…they’re practically talking chimps 😏🤭
You wouldn't be surprised at the anger I get when I tell Catholics that there is NO WAY that Mary stayed a virgin. You think ol' Joe would be ok with never having sex with her? It's a well known fact that they had more children; I can recall for sure James was Jesus' brother. I can only assume that the idea of her not being a virgin after Jesus' birth and Mary's ritual cleansing flummery would destroy the idea of her perfection. I'm just taking a wild-assed-guess here.
As a kid, how Christianity has treated women always at least bugged me. I never had any sisters, but the majority of my cousins on both sides were women, so while my non-family social circle was pretty lacking (that was solely a personal choice - my parents actively tried to push me build that, which I did not like doing due to being fairly anti-social back then), I was hardly lacking in women to interact with. Not once did I fall into a "No Girls Allowed" phase or believe that being a man somehow made me better (I was - and still am - a nerd, so kind of hard to maintain that).
It certainly did not help my faith when I started reading the Bible, first because the school curriculum (one of the few things I am grateful to my particular Catholic schooling for) and then out of personal volition. At first, I did what pretty much every Christian did: I cherry-picked and pretended that only what I chose mattered. Sure, even back then, you could have called me a progressive Christian, but obviously, that would no longer suffice. Something had to give, and my then-religious self was surprised that it was comfortable with what did (spoiler below).
I remember around this time that someone said to me that the Bible is like a tree's harvest, in that you keep what is good and throw out what is bad. All I could think was, "Well, if a tree produces a mostly bad harvest and has been doing so for _centuries,_ then why would anyone continue cultivating it?" I may not have been sticking with what could be described as the Bible's relationship/marital advice (again, nerd - wasn't exactly in a relationship), but I was able to recognize that it was unacceptable, even for someone like me, a man who supposedly should have all the power.
It might not have truly contributed to me leaving Christianity, but it certainly contributed to me not coming back.
Love that. Thanks for sharing! Its so easy to see in retrospect how many things never felt or seemed right.
"It just exploded on the inside of me." That would be really funny to take out of context hehehe
My thought exactly.
Damn, Bruh! That was harsh! And, 100% accurate! Well done, Sir!!
ha, lol, i actually felt like I really held back. But accurate is the main goal, so thank you much!
“Damned for a thot” was all my boomer brain could hear
I laud you for making this video! 🎉
So glad you are covering this subject. I have fought myself free from this way of thinking and a marriage of submission. Can't wait to hear more on this subject😊
Thank you! So happy to know you are free of it
Fantastic video! You've touched on the ingroup problem at 14:52 - this is so right! The "us vs them" mentality is encouraged by the Bible, leading to so much harm across various aspects of life, like for example men vs women, of heaven vs of this world, of God vs of Devil. I wish you could cover this topic more in-depth in the future, as your presentations are always top-notch :)
Appreciate that. I'll add it to the list! thank you.
My mother was raised by rather strict Christian patents but did not pass that on. She did however have a bible on the top book shelf. I was a smart child and would occasionally pull it down and try to read it. What does this word "elohim" mean Mom? She did not know how to answer that. She did not seem interested in helping me read that big black book so I lost interest. Later as a teenager I tried again. I got as far as the part where woman were to suffer in childbirth and reread that over several times before deciding I did not want to read that book. Over the years I became familiar with other passages where it seemed God did not like women. No wonder my mother had given it up.
Now, many years later, the most I could do was read the first four gospels of the new testament over and over until I thought I understood it. Seeing as how Jesus spoke in parables I could see how people could become enthralled with it. The most problematical part was where when asked if the father he spoke with was the same as the old testament Yah weh. His answer was yes. I have read here and there through the old testament.
Has a woman I can not see how people still support what I see has a foundation of the old testament. Men rule not just over women but over all creation. When people cherry-pick it can sound nice. I am pretty certain that I understand and have read more of the bible than most Christians. If anything I am an animist and certainly not religious. But I wanted to know what it was all about. It is worse than I could have imagined.
its amazing how Theist says that atheist can never have better morals than God, but yet atheist can arrive to better morals without a God or gods.
I. Female and Males are equal.
II. Respect each other.
III. Communicate with each other.
IV. No one is better or above anybody.
We all have our positives and negatives.
Its through the understanding of these similarities and differences and the acceptance of people, where we can progress as a society.
We can all achieve a better society without the shackles of religion.
Preach! Agree on all fronts.
None of this is true. Males and females are not equal. The Bible had already taught us that we are all one in Christ so there is no need for the false atheistic ‘brotherhood’.
@@juliabriggs1141 what happens when I don’t believe in your “god”?
*Edited to correct grammar. 😊
So it's not just spiritual tyranny. This is sexual tyranny too.
I recall hearing a cousin say that if he wasn’t saved, he would be crazy and out here r@ping woman.
My father side of the family is Pentecostal.
It’s insanity
This is a difficult one for me, Brandon.
In my church-going days, men didn't mess with me.
1. I was hated by men AND women because to them I was deemed "less than" (but they loved my piano playing for their "worship services) Ironic, eh?
2. Men FEARED me because I made it clear that I submit to NO ONE.
3. When much younger, a WOMAN creeped me out when she told me that my looks could get me "into a world of trouble." 🤔
I am a very strange case in the Christian cosmology. I was "different."
The Bible shows the general mindset of the people living 2000+ years ago. Women were seen as just a piece of meat. The Bible doesn't change. Fortunately some people do and they've come to the conclusion that women are equal to men a have to be treated accordingly. 13:14 to 15:50 was awesome 😎
100%! Thankfully much change has happened like you mentioned.But where it hasnt changed, the bible and other holy books like it are in large part to blame! and thank you!
1 Timothy 2:9 and 1 Peter 3:3, among other things, direct that women shall not wear gold or pearls. (Apparently it is okay for men wear such). Years ago when I was a christian, most of the women in our church wore gold if it was nothing more than engagement and wedding rings, or gold necklaces from which hung gold crosses. As scandalous as that was, they even wore it IN CHURCH. Strangely, none of the men in the church ever reprimanded them for this. I guess the men were obeying the commandment judge not that ye be not judged. But, for further irony, in most cases, it was the men who gave them the gold rings and other items to wear, thus making the men complicit in this sin.
When I was 8 and 9 years old, I was in the church choir. We were awarded a small metal pin to wear if we showed up for a certain number of consecutive choir practice sessions. If we continued to show up for specific intervals, we could turn in our pins, a tiny, genuine pearl would be inserted in it, and the pin would be returned to us. An additional pearl was added each time we showed up for a specific interval. We proudly wore these pins whenever we sang before the church. The choir director was a woman and the pins with the pearls were awarded to boys AND GIRLS. No man in the church ever reprimanded the female choir director for awarding the girls the pearls, or reprimanded the girls for wearing the pins with the pearls.
If God didnt want us to lust. He shouldnt have made us that way. He is the Almighty creator . What a joke
I'm blown away by your insight, Brandon! 💯
Too kind, Kristen! but thank you very much!
Another outstanding video!! Important topic to discuss, looking forward to the series!
Thanks, Stacie!
Great content
But please David didn't have an affair with batshiba, she was raped, imagine the power dynamic .
When a man accepts the biblical BS, guilt soon follows. It will not take long before this guilt turns to anger against women because they care causing the man to lust. The man then blames the women for their lust.
You will often see the image of a beaten, abused, and murdered woman, and standing over her destroyed body stands an angry man who shouts "LOOK AT WHAT YOU MADE ME DO".
That is obviously not the case for all men who read the bible, but i think what you have here is still very fair for a large group of abusive men within the belief. There is nothing good to get from this book in this regard, either people ignore it, or if they live their life by it, the harm is possible.
You just described my stepdad…😢 he said it was my fault that he gRaped me. He made me read the Bible and pray to god for forgiveness after he was done assaulting me. Mind you this started when I was 11 and didn’t stop till I ran away at 17. For the longest time, I carried the burden that it was my fault and because I was a girl, I caused him to sin…💔
@@iaminevitable_put his ass in jail. He has no right
Basically, don’t do anything the way god wants you to, when it comes to women. It’s 2:23 in the morning after a long trip back to FL from Colorado, yet I MUST watch this!!
Lol! Love that.
Scriptures like this convinced me that the inerrant and inspired word of God was no such thing. It began with Genesis 1-11 which is a clear human mythology without any divine inspiration. It continues the more I read.
The way he explained everything is actually more creepy than helpful
Ha. For sure!
Outstanding and thought provoking as usual
Thank you much! glad to hear it.
Another video of Brandon deserving only kudos.
Many thanks!
I'm glad that my ex-husband was an atheist! Because even though he was perfectly loyal to me throughout our 10-year marriage, he would always look overtly at beautiful women, even in my presence. Was there lust in his eyes? I don't know and I never bothered to know, because what mattered to me was his honesty and loyalty and he would never see a woman as a piece of meat.
You think all he did was look? If he did it when he was out with you, I can't imagine what he was doing when you were not in his company. And you believe he was faithful. You poor thing.
Oh come on..@@Childfree334
This was one of the biggest things that put me off. Having to grow up watching my mother deny her own desires and make of herself less than a full adult human being just because she happened to be born female. The appalling misogyny that permeates the Bible is indefensible. The crap they fed us in Sunday school about how "we're all equal in God's eyes" made me laugh looking back. No we're not; if you're a woman you're quite a bit less valuable in God's eyes. It's sad that this Bronze Age gender ideology is still used today. But I'm looking forward to your further content on this topic. Would love to see you do a take on some of Girl Defined's videos. ;)
agreed! its just sad and it gets in so deep which makes it so dangerous. I'll have to look up Girl Defined.
@@MindShift-Brandon Girl Defined is extremely toxic in my opinion, and does serious harm to women and men as well actually. I would also love to hear your take on it!
Awesome video my friend! What a horrible outlook on women the Bible presents when taken as a whole.
Thank you. Yes its just so ugly.
I love your videos!!
So happy to hear it. Thank you!
Thank you very much for making this important video. I totally agree with you.
Very well said, I've got nothing to add, so I'm just going to drop one for the algorithm 😊
Appreciate that!
9:44 "These are direct orders from God (...) this isn't just a reflection of men's culture at that time in history". But that's exactly what it is. A reflection of men's culture, placed by men into God's mouth to make it seem justified.
I am growingly impressed with your videos Brandon (no pressure!) please keep it up!
lol! no pressure at all. Thank you and I will do my best!
I am really appreciating your content. Common-sense refutations of common Christian arguments. Do you have any plans for a book? I would love to have this material in written/digital form.
Thats very kind of you, thank you. Literature is my first love, and I'd love to build a big enough platform to get to the point where I could put out some written works. Maybe far in the future!
Nowadays even Bart Ehrman, six times NYT bestselling author, makes UA-cam videos/podcasts and online video courses. These new media formats have a wider reach and appeal than traditional books so it makes sense to concentrate one’s effort on them.
PS UA-cam offers the transcript of videos. I never tried it myself but I guess that people who are keen on having a written version of a video they particularly like can copy and save the transcript.
@@MindShift-Brandon I have read a ton of both Apologist and Atheist literature as I struggled to hear both sides and tried to hang on to my faith. But I think you have a gift of cutting through the BS and expressing in common sense layman terms the hypocrisy, inconsistency and cruelty of many of the Christian doctrines - in a way that anyone can understand. And your knowledge of the Bible and your history contributes a perspective that is unique as well. Your content is both approachable and intellectually honest at the same time. Happy to have found your channel. I will be watching (down the road) for an eventual book!
what an extremely kind and humbling comment. Appreciate the encouragement and so glad to hear this is of use and beneficial!
@banjofanatic7519 💯 He cuts through the bullshit
The whole “that’s someone’s daughter” line of reasoning is very strange to me and I don’t think it’s really “empowering” for women. I mean is it appealing to the fact that some dude will feel bad if you have naughty thoughts about her? Besides the thought crime ridiculousness, is the reason not to SA her because it will hurt some dude?
Why is it so hard for some men to realize that women are actual people in and of themselves?
When creating the Ten Commandments maybe 2 of the first worthless four could have been; women are people and don’t assault people.
Right! Its a run for no net gain. Went from bad to bad.
@12:37 nailed it Brandon!🎯
Brandon, as a married man, have the dynamics of your marriage been affected by your deconversion and how you view women? Or simply put, did you/do you live out the role assigned by religion and culture to be the head of the household? Thank you as always for a great video!
Say you're a virgin without saying you're a virgin.
@@iseriver3982 your comment made me lol but what's the point you want to make?
My pleasure, good question. My wife and I, like many progressive christians (which is what I moved into in my adult years) were pretty darn choosey about which parts of the bible we listened to and took seriously. So thankfully we didn't get trapped into any bad dynamics early on, despite all the bad advice. My wife and I both work and we both take care of the kids. There are some traditional gender role things that occur within our marriage simply based off the tradition of what we both grew up in and the influence from our friends and family and culture as well as because some parts my wife still really believes in from her own faith.But I would never say its the only way to have a successful marriage and the only real change to come from my deconversion is our negotiating boundaries around things like prayer, bible studies, church attendance, conversations with kids, in law stuff etc. Thankfully our personal relationship has only grown closer as we have had to really work hard to not let this separate us. I think any upheaval will do that. You either both lean in, or take a step back. We leaned in. I'm sure I'll do a video more in depth around this discussion in the future.
@@mr.goldenproductions_0143 you trying to button down all women as culturally inferior to men shows you have no experience with women. Or you're just really dumb. Probably both.
@@iseriver3982You just insulted this person for no reason, using an incredibly overused, tired joke format. Try to be better.
Another banger. Great work!
Appreciate it!
Hey Brandon, I could really use your help, mate. I've been struggling with some tough stuff like social anxiety, depression, and sometimes even thinking about ending it all. I can't chat with my folks about it, they just pull the religion card and it doesn't help me at all. I need some insight from a non-believer's perspective. What would you do if you were in my shoes? And have you ever felt depressed before?
My man. Its all normal. Especially when you are younger. I had pretty bad depression when i was younger and my wife deals with clinical anxiety. Especially with any kind of ending thoughts, please please go talk to a professional. Theres no shame, they have the tools and resources to help your specifics. All i can say, especially if you are younger, is it passes and or gets better. Theres always hope. Even as a nonbeliever i am so glad to be here. To choose everyday on my own and make meaning and make beauty. Email me if you want or need to talk further but step 1, friend, is talking to a pro.
Hope ur going ok still sir?
🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
Excellent video as always
Thank you much, Jerry!
Why do you have to read the Bible to freaking realise that a woman is a freaking fellow human. Like WTF!
Right!
Definitely some unsettling things to say the least...
I think a big challenge for Christianity is the reconcile that Jesus and YHWH are one and the same God. Jesus certainly treated women far better than the OT God and the Jews of that period. Between his mother Mary telling him to change water into wine and Mary Magdalene (in one of the Gospels) being the first to witness the resurrection, Jesus was cool with elevating women's status within the group.
All this is to say, harmonizing the whole Bible is one heck of a task, and I honestly just don't know.
Anyway, wish you well. Your stuff is always fascinating.
I would love to see a series on women and religion by you.
If you read the the "scripture" objectively you can easily see how God, actually the Popes who ordered the "scripture" written, despises women for simply being as they were created.
It is bible verses like that, which is why I stopped believing. I cannot defend a god who allows this kind of behavior. And if I behave like how the Bible describes, of course, i'm going to jail or worse.
Great content !
Thank you much!
For some reason, I suspect that line attributed to Jesus about looking at a woman lustfully was added later. No real logical reason to think that. But is sounds very much like something Puritans would sneak in.
It just goes to show how interfering this man-made religion is. When people realise that biblical god claims are just fabricated, the jig's up.
man-made and man-made by a culture and time that did not treat women as equals. its that simple. Its so sad all these women praise this god who isnt real and wouldnt care for them if he were.
@@MindShift-Brandon It's very sad that women praise a god who has no respect for them at all. It is self-evident that men invented a god who reflected their barbaric culture. Their god was so uncivilised that he actually needed a human sacrifice, and that was considered logical in their culture.
Thank you!!!!!
Could you provide some specific verses regarding "women must submit...." @ about 10:00 on the video
Fantastic video! I can't wait for you to dive deeper into this topic.
Thank you much!
Can we just say ALL people are someone's daughter or son, so let's improve the way we treat ALL people?
Right or better yet. All people are people. No need to even have to envision someone as infantilized to humanize them. People are people. Johnny hoy here, is failing on multiple levels
@@MindShift-Brandon Infantilization didn't occur to me; do you think that is part of the "consider every woman is somebody's daughter" mindset?
Oh for sure didn’t mean you. Was in reference to john. The realization should have been. Woman are people too and thus deserve my respect not finally being able to view women as deserving respect because a. they are young and virginal and innocent and/or b. They are other men’s daughters. Both just kick the can down the field imo.
@@MindShift-Brandon FYI Didn't think you meant me. I don't have a deeply seeded religious pedigree (not for lack of trying, by some) so I don't understand that kind of thinking. Fact is, I don't have a "deconversion story" because I was pretty much a skeptic from the start. By the time I was ten or eleven my minister, SS teachers, parents were failing so gloriously at answering my questions, I wasn't having it. Guess I'm one of the lucky ones. With sports it was one of my only chances to socialize, so I went along to go along until I was eighteen. I'm 62 and probably haven't picked up a bible since.
Great analysis. It's this type of crap that I point to with every "If you knew the gospel was true ..." True ALL Day long, it's gonna be without me.
Thank you, and yes 100%!
Sorry but being someone's little girl is not being a woman and not being considered as equal...this guy is a jerk
right. He must infantilize these adult women in order to view them nonsexually. Thats already messed up, but worse is that according to his bible, the most sexually attractive women were the young, chaste, virgins.
@@MindShift-Brandonso true men in the Bible slept with women as young as 8.
I get a lot out of this as an atheist but I really think your content is perfect for a believer that is starting to see the contradictions in the bible. It’s so clearly an antiquated attempt at morality written by men. Any modern person could construct a more ethical system.
Love your content.
Appreciate that so much!
Timestamp 12:47 - "I’d love to make a bible that’s zoooop!" The Holy Pamplet! 😂😂😂
I have never used a blanket term such every woman is someone’s little girl. But if I’m debating someone about stuff like this, I DO tell them that I imagine there is at least one important female in that person’s life and I am certain that they wouldn’t want the biblical version of treatment towards women and girls to be applied to that person.
I’m starting to lose faith in that idea, though. The more I observe and engage, the more I believe some folks are hopelessly lost.
So many Pastors and Christians share this same type of goofy enthusiasm as John Bevere when they claim they had a religious epiphany. I used to be impressed by that, but now I am insulted by it.
God created women but he doesn't think much of them. His failure.
Exactly
I have to have a father in order to have agency and value .
You are just walking property, dont ya know
A: Hey, did you see that vid by Mindshift titled "Should We View Women The Way God Does?" ?
C: Ah yes, but you see, Jeesus gave us a new covenant
A: But this is God's word that should be followed to the letter should it not?
C: Yes, but that was for the olden days, bygone times. Now we have the new covenant
A: It's Gods' word, right?
C: Yes, yes, of course, but the new covenant....
A: It says here "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."
C: Oh you just don't understand the *context* Jeesus is a loving god, he treats women like angels....
A: Tell me, was Jeesus obedient to God, or rebellious. I mean did Jeesus have fights and disagree with God a lot ?
C: Of course not!!! Never!!!. Don't be silly. Jeesus believes and thinks exactly in accordance with his Father. He is completely at one with the Father
A: OK. I guess then that Jeesus approved of every instruction his dad gave in the Old Testament, as pointed out in this video ?
b...bu...but.....Dammit. Y'all just don't understand the *CONTEXT* foolish non-believers!
lol! if only this was actual satire not directly the conversations I see daily. Thanks for the chuckles and the call out of the ridiculous doublespeak from the christian community.
That would be a good darkmatter2525 video
😂😂😂
You all should find the videos of the coming of God ceremonies from Cern. They tell the story.
The story that Eve was tempted by the serpent because she was more fickle than her husband and then manipulated him into eating the apple too is probably the most damaging story there has ever been in western civilization. All of us as humans - men and women alike - have a very large weak and sinful side to us - not that that side is the whole picture. It is morally despicable and criminal for the bearded fucker who wrote Genesis to imply that women are weaker and more sinful than men. And it is far more powerful and criminal as a slippery implication from a story than a direct (and utterly false) statement.
I agree completely.
Yup! He definitely had that epiphany despite what it says in the bible, not because of it.
That men do not want to let go of this bronze age worldview is already very "beyond belief" to me,
(but then again men can dominate their women, right???)
But that women cling so strongly to this very women-degrading worldview is even more extremely unbelievable to me.
yes! its hard to fathom why any woman, minority, homosexual, foreigner, etc would ever find this god attractive. He seemingly despises them all!
@@MindShift-BrandonThis is something I would like to hear your perspective on further as I often struggle with “progressive Christianity” for this very reason. While I recognize that for many, their faith and “relationship” with Christ is integral to their well-being… I can’t help but wonder why they cling to a religion that requires selective reading and selective theology to be palatable to them when they can find everything they supposedly receive from “God” entirely from themselves. Belief, I suppose? We can’t choose what we believe so maybe it’s rooted in that.
thanks for the suggestion!
I love it when you get carried away 😂
Ha! Thanks for being here for it
Should we view women the way the men who wrote the Bible CLAIM God says we should
The bible makes me angry,
Yup!
Another great one Brandon.
That JB video clip is a perfect example of pretzel logic. No way did Psalm 8 trigger a “somebody’s little girl” revelation. That came from secular culture and he prayed and read and prayed etc and Psalm 8 is what he came up with. So weak.
Also- Why do I have the soundtrack of Born Free stuck in my head now?
.
lol! and yes thats a great point!
I really don't get people acting like admiring beauty and recognizing dignity are mutually exclusive. Are my choices to see my girlfriend as either hot or as a person? Are attractive women supposed to be worth less? It's so backwards and weird.
The dude's problem (at least that he stated in his video) wasn't that he was attracted to women, it's that he thought that meant he couldn't see them as people simultaneously.
We are all broken in some way including me
Moses said the little girls could be kept by his armies. "Marriage" used to be merely r@ping a girl and then paying a few monies to her father. Let's not forget the generations upon generations upon generations of boys raised to see this as the mind of a good and normal loving God.
Adding something into the text doesn't work. The Hebrew word doesn't mention r@pe.