I'm glad people are still watching this incredibly old and outdated theory of mine. It has a lot of holes and unexplained examples from other games as other commenters have pointed out. Will I ever make an updated version? Hopefully, when I have time since it took a long time collecting information for this video. As well, I had the time to do this 2 years ago. Plus, I still haven't finished Apocalypse so everyone can shun me for that too.
Sodium Cat Im happy that your comment is new, that means I can look forward for the updated version someday :) nice work by the way, hooked a subscription. Cheers.
Just want to point out as a Japanese speaker that 'shin' in 'shin megami tensei' does not mean 'new' but actually means 'true' or 'real'. The kanji (chinese character used with nouns, verbs and adjective stems) for new is 新, which is not the one from the title (真）
Good theory! this explains why lucifer says he doesn't care for humanity in smt strange journey (as louisa) and says he loves humanity in smt iv apocolypse!
The Shin Megami Tensei multiverse theory is one of the few theories I think a good majority of the SMT fan base can agree upon given the evidence for it in SMT canon.
Seems like SMTIV:A debunked some points regarding what's canon and not within your theory. But, at the same time, gives a lot of base/support to the theory as a whole. "Shin Megami Tensei IV: Apocalypse represents an alternative outcome than the one explored in Shin Megami Tensei IV. The point of divergence begins with SMTIV:A's protagonist meets Dagda. In one reality, the protagonist declines Dagda's offer and dies. Afterwards, events unfold as it did in SMT IV. A similar branching of realities occurs in SMTIV, too, depending on which of the ideologies Flynn embraced. In one reality, he sided with Merkabah and maintained the status quo by eradicating the Unclean Ones. In another reality, Flynn sided with Lucifer and incited revolution, spreading the flames of war across Tokyo and created a world shaped by the strong. A third reality branched off if Flynn sided with no one, and instead found his own path and removed the dome of rock covering Tokyo. A fourth reality splintered off if Flynn chose to have the world obliterated by a black hole. As illustrated, there are countless possibilities that can lead to countless alternative universes, each possibility possibly influencing another. Once "observed," each alternative universe becomes its own "true" reality. So in a way, there is no permanent end to this world." -Special 1: Parallel Universes, SMTIV:A's DLC Lore Files.
Smt IV apocalypse is a what if scenerios. The original IV ending is still canon, not apocalypse. When.people use canon, they are referring to the main universe or main timeline, not the an alternate reality line
Except the only known 'canon' is SMT I's neutral route. And even then, the SMT Nocturne sprung up the multiverse setting within the games. And Apocalypse's DLC, as well as the original IV, has practically tell you that everything is canon, because apparently not enough people were getting Nocturne's hint. Ultimately, the usual meaning of 'canon' doesn't work within SMT, Digital Devil Saga, Devil Survivor, Devil Summoner, etc.
Emil Irving canon timeline refers to the time line taking place during the nuclear holocaust and the after math. Smt 3 nocturne explains how the.fourth wall broke and how raidou appears there. How raidou created the persona universe. All the other parallel universes are not canon and where spinned off the main nuclear timeline. Smt IV apocalypse explains how that isn't canon through the dlcs, namashi in the Canon verse said no to dagda, and the Flynn appearing in the Messiah dlc was the Canon Flynn from his timeline. While the events of iva isn't canon or it's endings, but they did have flashbacks of the events of smt 1 where the nuclear holocaust happened. I also don't think strange journey fits into the Canon timeline
Michael Hazell Raidou did NOT created the Persona timeline. That was from SMT If... Also he was not in the original form of III, nor the first remake. He shown up in the second one, replacing Dante. Also, the change to his timeline is by one of the Kuzunoha successors that was from the SMT 1 timeline. This alone makes it obvious you know hardly anything on this subject.
I support this theory but there is three things that are left unexplained in my opinion 1. The Digital Devil Saga Series 2. The thing that fuels the amala network, kagatsutchi 3. The thing that fuels kagatsuchi, people's emotions
1. One theory for that would be that it sort of fits into the SMT 2 timeline, but as a sort of reincarnation of the universe, instead of being in the same exact universe. Basically, as established in both Digital Devil Saga 2 and Devil Survivor 2, the SMT Multiverse is basically made up of data, which is stored in the Akashic Record, and can be manipulated to some extent by both Brahman and whoever sits on the Heavenly Throne. Both games explain that this data can be recycled from a old universe into a new universe, and according to Devil Survivor 2, it is possible that the data of a person may keep some of its old memories, when recycled into a new universe. Since many of the bonus bosses of DDS2 have memories from SMT 2(namely the Archangels and Satan), and the Final Boss and "God" of the universe, Brahman is able to directly recycle data back in the universe, the explanation would then be that Brahman recycled the data of the SMT 2 timeline into the Digital Devil Saga universe. 2. and 3. are explained with the Great Will. Basically Kagatsuchi, and YHVH are both avatars of the Great Will. The Great Will is essentially the Christian idea of God mixed with the pantheistic idea of the Higher Conscious. He is the ultimate deity of the Law allignment, and the creator of the SMT multiverse, but he essentially exists within the hearts of people and the universe itself. So in a way he is the bridge between the multiverses, hence fueling the Amala Network, but since he also exists within people, he is fueled by people's emotions and will never cease to exist as long as even one person believes in him. I hope that all makes sense.
LordIzanagi89 This would be one hell of a bold statement, but could it be possible that the Digital Devil Saga and the universes of the likes are all just his fantasies or his dream of what he would want the world to be.
Christ the first fun fact blew my mind. Izanami started all of this. Izanagi is prominent in a number of titles and spinoffs. My mind is racing to connect the dots without even finishing the video. O.O
smt4 apocalypse actually gives a text file describing the multiverse and the human power of observation to bring different universes together to become one.
This video is very useful cause it helps you to understand essentially how the SMT timeline work. You should consider uploading an Updated version of this! Amazing video!
You did a good job at summing up the Multiverse theory, which is held by most SMT fans, but not by many Persona fans(due to lack of knowledge of non-persona SMT games). However, I would like to mention that there are retcons in the series, which may bring some of the very old game's canonicity into question. The first two Megami Tensei have contradictions to the nature of demons and characters in the SMT series, which cant be rationalized by even a multiverse. The later games retcon these aspects completely, as if they never existed. We can assume the general main story of MT I&II as canon, however, details in the game should not. However, many have proposed that MT I&II are simply "prototypes" of the SMT series, being actually based off a novel and should not be held in the amala multiverse. Also, many theorists don't like the idea of allowing demikids, Last Bible, Jack Bros or some of the other obscure old spin offs as part of canon, even though it *technically* could happen. They are simply just to out of nature for SMT. It would be like allowing a SMT pinball game in the lore. Also, pretty much all of the proposed multiverse timelines ive seen have been all inherently flawed one way or another. I am glad you didn't use one.
Thank you! Anyways, that is interesting. I did not think the Megami Tensei can be a "prototype" of the SMT series. We can say YHVH created that universe for the sole purpose of seeing how a universe with these humans with demon summoning abilities will operate. It will sound better than just saying Atlus used it as a prototype. Demikids, etc. I like to include because even if people do not agree with accepting those spin-offs, like you said, they happened. I personally like to include them and not exclude them. Yes, I do not like the other timelines because they contradict in one way or another. I rather just say that while some follow up with each other or hinted of being a sequel, they all probably do not follow each other canonically as some timelines make them out to be.
I recall in smt nocturne, it said something about the main protagonist committing the ultimate sin and was cursed throughout all his reincarnations or something like that. What was this so called ultimate sin?
Ok so in summary. It's all a multiverse with multiple timelines meaning every ending technically happens but there's main ones for most-ish games. So for example, Nocturne's True Demon Ending means he's basically gonna go to different worlds and punch that world's YVHV in face but is also hated by the Axiom/Great Will, right?. Meaning that technically we could end up fighting Demi fiend in a future game as an Order route boss or in any route since the Axiom/Great Will would want a Messiah to deal with the Demi fiend or am I just confused? I just started getting super into the megaten multiverse thing so it'd be cool if someone could help me here 😅
I still love this timeline video even TODAY!!! Anyway, in my persona 4(ps2) gameplay I managed to rare fuse Cerberus, which I gushed about because of the online game and your vídeo and they explained this rare fusion and made me think that MAY-BE Yu is a reincarnated version of the Pascal's owner but this is Just a non Cannon theory since persona is kinda not connected... Sorta is... Is complicated.. my god
With SMT IV. I believe that the timeline that includes Nocturne, Strange Journey, IV, and Apocalypse is that Nocturne comes first, with Strange Journey also coming afterwards. SMT IV comes next (We could say that the Naruku is actually a travel area to cross in different times, and this causes the reasoning for the Demonicas and some other references. For the other Tokyos, they could be the events of Nocturne occurring.) Finally we come to Apocalypse and the events that follow.
If you're using SMT: Nocturne Maniax cut as a way of connecting Megami Tensei and Shin Megami Tensei you can't because the TDE is Cannon In that game and since Cerberus was in the labyrinth of Amala that shows that Hitosura is going down the TDE path. If that's the case then that's not possible. The TDE ends with Hitosura killing Lucifer and Kagastuchi, Kagastuchi is the essence of creation in Hito's world and killing him destroyed a section in the amala network. Creation includes time and space so essentially Hitosura created dark matter by killing Kagastuchi and the ending states that DemiFiend and Lucifer are striking a war against the one true God, not YHVH, but the Divine Will and by using SMT Lore you can see that they dm succeeded in killing the Divine Will the power of the Divine Will was divided into the physical forms, hence why YHVH, Kagastuchi, Demiurge, Vishnu, Hari-Hara, Brahman ect exist. The essence of Divine Will was destroyed and had to be split into physical forms which is why God's exist in the world. And if the Divine Will is destroyed Hitosura destroyed the possibility of life being created, creating a hole in the Amala network. Everything leading up to SMT 3 is non-existent and any possibility of any future happening is non-existent. DemiFiend and Aleph being cursed by the Divine Will along with Lucifer existing as long as there is Law in the world is the reason why they still exist. AS SUCH long explanation aside. With that knowledge Cerberus cannot connect the two series together because none of it existed. A way to connect the two series together without a doubt is through SMT IV, Burroughs is Izanami in that game and she references to Steven that Flynn is a reincarnation of Nakajima (It's incredibly subtle) and since that is the case it connects the two bar none. I really do believe that the whole Nakajima giving Kazuya Pascal thing is Cannon they wouldn't add it if it wasn't since reincarnation is a thing in the entire series it makes sense. Fuck this was a long comment
Wait am i the only one who's noticed the extreme resemblance between the main characters from SMT I, and SMT IV? I mean when you put them side to side, they all look basically the same and also fill the same roles as the original characters as well. Does this perhaps has anything to do with the reincarnation theme mentioned in this video too?
Is possible that Nyx is related with Izanami? In that trip to gekkoukan high school in p4, the prof explains the lore of Izanami and Izanagi, and Izanami curse. And is possible that Yu is the reincarnation of Izanagi. And the bad endings of P3, P4 P5, can lead to a SMT scenario where demons or personas roam the real world. So there's a connection in some way.
Nyx isn't related to Izanami; in fact, these 2 have completely different origins. While Izanami is born from the Collective Consciousness i.e human thoughts and beliefs, Nyx isn't, and therefore is free from human control. Actually, the world building in SMT + P1/2 (parts of which were in control of the R&D1 team) is different from the world building of P3/4/5 (Hashino's concept) so there will definitely be inconsistencies and it's best not to read too much into anything.
I believe Catherine takes place around the time of persona 4 but in a different area (obviously) the main reason I think it's on the timeline is because of the whole demon succubus thing which has strong connections to smt
In 1 universe Megami Tenshei is connected to Shadow Hearts...cause why not? (and both have pretty weird styles even if they are from different companies). The MC forges pacts with similar entities btw, so not that far fetched...maybe.
agreed it's why I have [OUTDATED] cause my thoughts have changed a lot since this video was uploaded. I do believe still in a multiverse not necessarily connected timeline-wise with exceptions if they literally are connected like Devil Summoner and Persona, but the MegaTenverse for the most part to me is a multiverse. Which is all just speculation anyways unless there's exact confirmation nothing will be fact.
@@thesodiumcat I mean, they might make each game as whatever they want, and then try to connect the dots after the games. That's how the Zelda timeline works
All series have manga series, Anime series, movie series, video series, book series, hentai and real life is all multiverse is link to other multiverse all truth real
Apologize for that. Back then, I had a very clear accent and weird way of speaking cause English is my second language. However, I’d like to think I’ve gotten better at pronunciation since this video came out haha, but I’m always trying to improve.
So if all spinoff games in SMT are cannon in the multiverse. Does that mean that TMS#FE is cannon? If so does that the fire emblem universe is connected and cannon to the SMT universe. If the Fire Emblem universe is cannon can the Etrian Oddetsy
Blaaaaaah, noooooo. MT1 & MT2 do not exist within the amala network but rather directly outside of it. That is to say that while the events of MT1 & MT2 may have had an impact on SMT1 - SMT5... nothing that happens within SMT can effect MT.
Appreciate your theory and you taking the time and effort to create it. However, I feel like you literally just said these are each their own games made by the same company and may or may not connect based on Easter eggs or something else. You just used the terminals as a means of proof for the multiple timelines. I really think most fans overthink this. It literally could be anything you think of. And really, in that way I could easily say every game made by blizzard is connected, just different universes. I still enjoyed your in depth explanation of stuff, but I feel it's an over complicated way of saying they may or may not connect simply because they were made by the same company. I still view each as it's own game, and thus it's very obviously it's own "universe".
Actually, I can see now why you made the video - reaching the end and all. You made it as a support with "rules" so that others can CREATE a timeline. That makes sense why it's so vague and doesn't really make a legitimate timeline.
I hate this all began because an edgy high schooler wanted to play God until he starts simping for some japanese Stacy. It was always about the waifus since day 1.
Billy Djufri Persona and most of the spinoffs didn't have the SMT name in Japan. The ones that came to the West with SMT in the name was a decision made by Atlus USA/West.
Canon refers to the main time line, not alternate branches or what if sequels. So no.persona is not canon outside it's own universe and does not make it canon in the shin megami tensei universe. Using raidous being able to be in nocturne is just as laughable as saying devil may cry is part of the smt universe.
The fact that so many connections can be made and disproven at certain points is because of the fact the same creators had something to do with each game and dealt with the same themes and story elements. One can simply say because a deity is in the game, to some extent there is validity in the reincarnation. However, Persona has since removed Shin Megami Tensei from recent titles, and I believe that was for a reason. Again, you still have deities being used, the same lore surrounding the figures, so it would be easy to say it is connected but also wrong because the mythos won't change, leading to an assumption. The Persona series in themselves have world ending scenarios that have nothing to do with Izanagi and Izanami being central unti SMT 4, and honestly, Marie can't simultaneously be a persona you can summon and a NPC, and also be Kusumi no Ookami that is based on the male god, Kusubi. Also, she was an afterthought, not part of the original. You can literally switch around all deities and claim a reboot or restart, given the series uses major religious and occult figures. It could be Norse, Chinese and they all have creation stories. Some theories can work, but I believe overall, looking at all the parts and offshoots, they are not necessarily canonically connected as any Final Fantasy is theorized to be connected because of similarities and certain lore making a multiverse. Any series could do that, actually. The series is very occult, if not Luciferian. Like most New Age religion, it comprises of philosophy, religion and the occult. It also attempts to combine all gods and deities as alternate representation of central figures (ones with similar mythos if not cultural variations). Everything leads back to a central conscious, people can tap into the good and bad, become possessed and think they can control these beings. I won't go too far into it, but the theories presented have already been put out there in a package already outside a game series.
Technically, Persona never had the SMT moniker with the very first one having Megami Ibunroku and subsequent titles only having “Persona” in its name. Adding SMT to spin-offs were an Atlus localization decision. This is something I will learn later and not when this video was uploaded. At least from recent memory, Devil Summoner 1 is the only spinoff with SMT in its Japanese release name. Thus, I know now that looking at the titles doesn’t prove/disprove anything. When this video was created years ago, it was my attempt at trying to create a unifying theory that everything is canon in a multiverse. I still standby everything is canon because that’s the nature of a multiverse since there’s infinite number of possibilities. While certain endings lead to another game making it “canon”, it doesn’t mean the other endings have become non-canon, but just didn’t occur in the timeline of the subsequent game in the timeline. I understand the flaws behind what I’ve said in this video because there’s lines in games, such as Nocturne, that contradict what I’ve said. However, this series is canonically connected and this is because of the Amala Network and Raidou XL. While not every game will lead to another, as some titles could be in a completely separate universe, these two are major aspects that connect the entire series in a way that other series don’t explicitly say about their multiverses. If we’re looking at a chronological order, then we can judge what is truly connected and what isn’t in their respective timeline (ex. Raidou Kuzunoha duology taking place before SMT I because of Raidou XL trying to prevent the Cataclysm).
I'm glad people are still watching this incredibly old and outdated theory of mine. It has a lot of holes and unexplained examples from other games as other commenters have pointed out. Will I ever make an updated version? Hopefully, when I have time since it took a long time collecting information for this video. As well, I had the time to do this 2 years ago. Plus, I still haven't finished Apocalypse so everyone can shun me for that too.
Sodium Cat Im happy that your comment is new, that means I can look forward for the updated version someday :) nice work by the way, hooked a subscription. Cheers.
You also should add subtitles and the possibility of letting us translate them (since I'm spanish and I could translate them).
I should still have my script somewhere so I can add the English subtitles for anyone to translate.
Make an updated version please‼️‼️‼️
I like it... gonna need an update with SMT V
Just want to point out as a Japanese speaker that 'shin' in 'shin megami tensei' does not mean 'new' but actually means 'true' or 'real'. The kanji (chinese character used with nouns, verbs and adjective stems) for new is 新, which is not the one from the title (真）
i knew this from Shin Daiyusha in Cardfight Vanguard
I love how you put the black persona 4 logo over a black background making it invisible
Good theory! this explains why lucifer says he doesn't care for humanity in smt strange journey (as louisa) and says he loves humanity in smt iv apocolypse!
Two things to note are that the "Demon Children" series is actually the "Devil Children" series, and that it was brought to the west as "DemiKids"
KRX50 those games are tight
You do know that Mitsuru's father referenced the Nanjo group from P1&2 in P3, right?
and that the mmorpg given by Junpei in Door-kun's route is referencing the the whole game of P2IS
Not to be that person but it doesn’t surprise me that he did not acknowledge this
The Shin Megami Tensei multiverse theory is one of the few theories I think a good majority of the SMT fan base can agree upon given the evidence for it in SMT canon.
Seems like SMTIV:A debunked some points regarding what's canon and not within your theory. But, at the same time, gives a lot of base/support to the theory as a whole.
"Shin Megami Tensei IV: Apocalypse represents an alternative outcome than the one explored in Shin Megami Tensei IV. The point of divergence begins with SMTIV:A's protagonist meets Dagda. In one reality, the protagonist declines Dagda's offer and dies. Afterwards, events unfold as it did in SMT IV.
A similar branching of realities occurs in SMTIV, too, depending on which of the ideologies Flynn embraced. In one reality, he sided with Merkabah and maintained the status quo by eradicating the Unclean Ones. In another reality, Flynn sided with Lucifer and incited revolution, spreading the flames of war across Tokyo and created a world shaped by the strong. A third reality branched off if Flynn sided with no one, and instead found his own path and removed the dome of rock covering Tokyo. A fourth reality splintered off if Flynn chose to have the world obliterated by a black hole.
As illustrated, there are countless possibilities that can lead to countless alternative universes, each possibility possibly influencing another. Once "observed," each alternative universe becomes its own "true" reality. So in a way, there is no permanent end to this world."
-Special 1: Parallel Universes, SMTIV:A's DLC Lore Files.
Emil Irving atlus were real hero's for giving us that file
Smt IV apocalypse is a what if scenerios. The original IV ending is still canon, not apocalypse. When.people use canon, they are referring to the main universe or main timeline, not the an alternate reality line
Except the only known 'canon' is SMT I's neutral route. And even then, the SMT Nocturne sprung up the multiverse setting within the games. And Apocalypse's DLC, as well as the original IV, has practically tell you that everything is canon, because apparently not enough people were getting Nocturne's hint.
Ultimately, the usual meaning of 'canon' doesn't work within SMT, Digital Devil Saga, Devil Survivor, Devil Summoner, etc.
Emil Irving canon timeline refers to the time line taking place during the nuclear holocaust and the after math. Smt 3 nocturne explains how the.fourth wall broke and how raidou appears there. How raidou created the persona universe. All the other parallel universes are not canon and where spinned off the main nuclear timeline. Smt IV apocalypse explains how that isn't canon through the dlcs, namashi in the Canon verse said no to dagda, and the Flynn appearing in the Messiah dlc was the Canon Flynn from his timeline. While the events of iva isn't canon or it's endings, but they did have flashbacks of the events of smt 1 where the nuclear holocaust happened. I also don't think strange journey fits into the Canon timeline
Michael Hazell Raidou did NOT created the Persona timeline. That was from SMT If... Also he was not in the original form of III, nor the first remake. He shown up in the second one, replacing Dante. Also, the change to his timeline is by one of the Kuzunoha successors that was from the SMT 1 timeline. This alone makes it obvious you know hardly anything on this subject.
I support this theory but there is three things that are left unexplained in my opinion
1. The Digital Devil Saga Series
2. The thing that fuels the amala network, kagatsutchi
3. The thing that fuels kagatsuchi, people's emotions
1: a more "Hindu" version of the SMT universe.
2: dead and/or dying.
3: not emotions but "reasons"
1. One theory for that would be that it sort of fits into the SMT 2 timeline, but as a sort of reincarnation of the universe, instead of being in the same exact universe. Basically, as established in both Digital Devil Saga 2 and Devil Survivor 2, the SMT Multiverse is basically made up of data, which is stored in the Akashic Record, and can be manipulated to some extent by both Brahman and whoever sits on the Heavenly Throne. Both games explain that this data can be recycled from a old universe into a new universe, and according to Devil Survivor 2, it is possible that the data of a person may keep some of its old memories, when recycled into a new universe.
Since many of the bonus bosses of DDS2 have memories from SMT 2(namely the Archangels and Satan), and the Final Boss and "God" of the universe, Brahman is able to directly recycle data back in the universe, the explanation would then be that Brahman recycled the data of the SMT 2 timeline into the Digital Devil Saga universe.
2. and 3. are explained with the Great Will. Basically Kagatsuchi, and YHVH are both avatars of the Great Will. The Great Will is essentially the Christian idea of God mixed with the pantheistic idea of the Higher Conscious. He is the ultimate deity of the Law allignment, and the creator of the SMT multiverse, but he essentially exists within the hearts of people and the universe itself. So in a way he is the bridge between the multiverses, hence fueling the Amala Network, but since he also exists within people, he is fueled by people's emotions and will never cease to exist as long as even one person believes in him.
I hope that all makes sense.
LordIzanagi89 This would be one hell of a bold statement, but could it be possible that the Digital Devil Saga and the universes of the likes are all just his fantasies or his dream of what he would want the world to be.
I don't quite follow. Who do you mean by he?
Sorry, I meant the Great Will. Lol I though I typed it
Short version: Izanagi & Izanami shiz.
DEMONIC MUDKIP pretty much
so persona 4?
marie destined to be with narukami? not in my playthrough😂
lightsinx Not unless u play persona 4 golden
@@crackedhammer8505 that was in the anime
P3 and P4 came about from the reboot that Philmon did. Thus deal with the Other side, and the agreement between Phil and Nyarly.
Christ the first fun fact blew my mind. Izanami started all of this. Izanagi is prominent in a number of titles and spinoffs. My mind is racing to connect the dots without even finishing the video. O.O
Now lets hope there are more games in the future that use the amala network
smt4 apocalypse actually gives a text file describing the multiverse and the human power of observation to bring different universes together to become one.
This video is very useful cause it helps you to understand essentially how the SMT timeline work. You should consider uploading an Updated version of this! Amazing video!
You did a good job at summing up the Multiverse theory, which is held by most SMT fans, but not by many Persona fans(due to lack of knowledge of non-persona SMT games).
However, I would like to mention that there are retcons in the series, which may bring some of the very old game's canonicity into question. The first two Megami Tensei have contradictions to the nature of demons and characters in the SMT series, which cant be rationalized by even a multiverse. The later games retcon these aspects completely, as if they never existed. We can assume the general main story of MT I&II as canon, however, details in the game should not. However, many have proposed that MT I&II are simply "prototypes" of the SMT series, being actually based off a novel and should not be held in the amala multiverse.
Also, many theorists don't like the idea of allowing demikids, Last Bible, Jack Bros or some of the other obscure old spin offs as part of canon, even though it *technically* could happen. They are simply just to out of nature for SMT. It would be like allowing a SMT pinball game in the lore.
Also, pretty much all of the proposed multiverse timelines ive seen have been all inherently flawed one way or another. I am glad you didn't use one.
Thank you! Anyways, that is interesting. I did not think the Megami Tensei can be a "prototype" of the SMT series. We can say YHVH created that universe for the sole purpose of seeing how a universe with these humans with demon summoning abilities will operate. It will sound better than just saying Atlus used it as a prototype. Demikids, etc. I like to include because even if people do not agree with accepting those spin-offs, like you said, they happened. I personally like to include them and not exclude them. Yes, I do not like the other timelines because they contradict in one way or another. I rather just say that while some follow up with each other or hinted of being a sequel, they all probably do not follow each other canonically as some timelines make them out to be.
Anyone else agonizing over the wait for SMT V?
I recall in smt nocturne, it said something about the main protagonist committing the ultimate sin and was cursed throughout all his reincarnations or something like that. What was this so called ultimate sin?
Killing the Judeo-Christian God.
+Joel Sasmad oh ok thx
Each game is an universe in Amala Network, maybe the SMT 1 and 2 world was the world destroyed in SMT 3
I think
Ok so in summary. It's all a multiverse with multiple timelines meaning every ending technically happens but there's main ones for most-ish games. So for example, Nocturne's True Demon Ending means he's basically gonna go to different worlds and punch that world's YVHV in face but is also hated by the Axiom/Great Will, right?. Meaning that technically we could end up fighting Demi fiend in a future game as an Order route boss or in any route since the Axiom/Great Will would want a Messiah to deal with the Demi fiend or am I just confused?
I just started getting super into the megaten multiverse thing so it'd be cool if someone could help me here 😅
I still love this timeline video even TODAY!!!
Anyway, in my persona 4(ps2) gameplay I managed to rare fuse Cerberus, which I gushed about because of the online game and your vídeo and they explained this rare fusion and made me think that MAY-BE Yu is a reincarnated version of the Pascal's owner but this is Just a non Cannon theory since persona is kinda not connected... Sorta is... Is complicated.. my god
With SMT IV. I believe that the timeline that includes Nocturne, Strange Journey, IV, and Apocalypse is that Nocturne comes first, with Strange Journey also coming afterwards. SMT IV comes next (We could say that the Naruku is actually a travel area to cross in different times, and this causes the reasoning for the Demonicas and some other references. For the other Tokyos, they could be the events of Nocturne occurring.) Finally we come to Apocalypse and the events that follow.
I always thought that Devil survivor Overclocked + Devil Survivor II & SMT IV were all connected because the wrist band in IV is pretty much a comp.
There are comps everywhere but in Nocturne in the main series so no.
oh, i luvs me some SMT. still waiting for that SMT if.. english translation, any day now
If you're using SMT: Nocturne Maniax cut as a way of connecting Megami Tensei and Shin Megami Tensei you can't because the TDE is Cannon In that game and since Cerberus was in the labyrinth of Amala that shows that Hitosura is going down the TDE path.
If that's the case then that's not possible. The TDE ends with Hitosura killing Lucifer and Kagastuchi, Kagastuchi is the essence of creation in Hito's world and killing him destroyed a section in the amala network. Creation includes time and space so essentially Hitosura created dark matter by killing Kagastuchi and the ending states that DemiFiend and Lucifer are striking a war against the one true God, not YHVH, but the Divine Will and by using SMT Lore you can see that they dm succeeded in killing the Divine Will the power of the Divine Will was divided into the physical forms, hence why YHVH, Kagastuchi, Demiurge, Vishnu, Hari-Hara, Brahman ect exist.
The essence of Divine Will was destroyed and had to be split into physical forms which is why God's exist in the world. And if the Divine Will is destroyed Hitosura destroyed the possibility of life being created, creating a hole in the Amala network. Everything leading up to SMT 3 is non-existent and any possibility of any future happening is non-existent. DemiFiend and Aleph being cursed by the Divine Will along with Lucifer existing as long as there is Law in the world is the reason why they still exist.
AS SUCH long explanation aside. With that knowledge Cerberus cannot connect the two series together because none of it existed.
A way to connect the two series together without a doubt is through SMT IV, Burroughs is Izanami in that game and she references to Steven that Flynn is a reincarnation of Nakajima (It's incredibly subtle) and since that is the case it connects the two bar none.
I really do believe that the whole Nakajima giving Kazuya Pascal thing is Cannon they wouldn't add it if it wasn't since reincarnation is a thing in the entire series it makes sense.
Fuck this was a long comment
Bravo good sir.
nice theory there mate, in fact I just read SMT IV: Demonic Gene and it looks like it supported your theory.
btw, why didn't you include DDS series?
You have earned a new sub. Great video, I hope you make more videos in the future!
So would it rather be a timeline spilt between SMT4 and SMT4A?
you should do whose the strongest potaganist in the series
black broly in my opinion it's Minato Arisato from persona 3
Nahhh I think its the demi fiend
Babis Venetis
Demi Fiend.
TDE trumps spending eternity keeping a death god from destroying a single universe.
Juan Ruvalcaba huh ? are you agreeing with me or other dude
black broly
agreeing with you lol
I agree with you, mostly because you said my waifu is canon.
I guess not everything is canon - Izanagi+Izanami, which basically results in Yu+Marie in P4G :)
Suddenly derailed. Should've just called it "Izanami and Izanagi shit."
Hahahaha I can't wait for my mother to realize I'm playing a game that has a lot of fricking dark shet, and demonic shet
In the Next Episode of "secret timeline events of games", we'll discover that every game in the Final Fantasy Series are canon.
It will be a very short episode, thanks to Dissidia.
Wait am i the only one who's noticed the extreme resemblance between the main characters from SMT I, and SMT IV? I mean when you put them side to side, they all look basically the same and also fill the same roles as the original characters as well. Does this perhaps has anything to do with the reincarnation theme mentioned in this video too?
Considering how it's in the title and how the entire universe works, it's a possibility.
Shin Megami Tensei means TRUE reincarnation of the goddess, not new.
The way I see it is P1 and P2 innocent sin are in one universe and the P2 enteral punishment P3 P4 and P5 in universe 2 separate but connected
Is possible that Nyx is related with Izanami? In that trip to gekkoukan high school in p4, the prof explains the lore of Izanami and Izanagi, and Izanami curse. And is possible that Yu is the reincarnation of Izanagi. And the bad endings of P3, P4 P5, can lead to a SMT scenario where demons or personas roam the real world. So there's a connection in some way.
Nyx isn't related to Izanami; in fact, these 2 have completely different origins. While Izanami is born from the Collective Consciousness i.e human thoughts and beliefs, Nyx isn't, and therefore is free from human control.
Actually, the world building in SMT + P1/2 (parts of which were in control of the R&D1 team) is different from the world building of P3/4/5 (Hashino's concept) so there will definitely be inconsistencies and it's best not to read too much into anything.
I believe Catherine takes place around the time of persona 4 but in a different area (obviously) the main reason I think it's on the timeline is because of the whole demon succubus thing which has strong connections to smt
Doesn't the MC of Catherine make an appearance in P3P?
i think they are different universes
+Brandon Ribeira no its in the same universe, Teddie shows up in Catherine and the protagonist shows up in Persona 3 Portable.
There's also a section in the anime version of persona 4, when the protagonist's phone rings it plays one of the songs from Catherine
those are references
What's more convoluted; the SMT Multiverse or DC Multiverse?
DC at this point, Apocalypse's lore files pretty much made clear how the multiverse became a thing.
video: jan 2015
youtube algorithm: "game: persona 5 (2016)"
In 1 universe Megami Tenshei is connected to Shadow Hearts...cause why not? (and both have pretty weird styles even if they are from different companies).
The MC forges pacts with similar entities btw, so not that far fetched...maybe.
When a updated version with p5?
compendenium? I've been saying it wrong!
I wonder if this will get updated once the Remaster of III and V comes out.
I doubt they were thinking of a timeline
agreed it's why I have [OUTDATED] cause my thoughts have changed a lot since this video was uploaded. I do believe still in a multiverse not necessarily connected timeline-wise with exceptions if they literally are connected like Devil Summoner and Persona, but the MegaTenverse for the most part to me is a multiverse. Which is all just speculation anyways unless there's exact confirmation nothing will be fact.
@@thesodiumcat I mean, they might make each game as whatever they want, and then try to connect the dots after the games. That's how the Zelda timeline works
@@redhood7778 that'd be cool and I'd like to know what continuity map they create if they decide to do it.
Amazing
Aya shitti tama basically ran through his head.
Gotta bunch of new titles to try and rope in
Also some fans consider Maken X as part of the Megaten universe. How? I don't know, but some do.
smt if... >devil summoner >persona >devil survivor
All series have manga series, Anime series, movie series, video series, book series, hentai and real life is all multiverse is link to other multiverse all truth real
I expect more videos from you, Dont die on my
shin either means new or TRUE
First 20 seconds
Me: *Subscribes*
she is a Saguri
how's the multiverse concept in SMT IV Stories (IV and IV Apocalypse)?
This theory... Is a stretch. Also, it's NET work, not NECKwork omg
Apologize for that. Back then, I had a very clear accent and weird way of speaking cause English is my second language. However, I’d like to think I’ve gotten better at pronunciation since this video came out haha, but I’m always trying to improve.
So if all spinoff games in SMT are cannon in the multiverse. Does that mean that TMS#FE is cannon? If so does that the fire emblem universe is connected and cannon to the SMT universe. If the Fire Emblem universe is cannon can the Etrian Oddetsy
trying to find Devil survivor overclocked
Why do i keep hearing him saying 'shinigami tensei'
Aceline Ace my pronunciation is terrible.
shinigami tensei
kira?
kiras ressurection?
Not sure, but did you miss the "Last Bible" Parts?
3:00 does it say its not canon on the wiki?
All endings being canon is the only rational way to look at things 👍
So where would Tokyo Mirage Sessions be?
so just making sure those obscure spin offs are not part of the Megaten or the multi-verse theory?
Last bible?
Blaaaaaah, noooooo. MT1 & MT2 do not exist within the amala network but rather directly outside of it.
That is to say that while the events of MT1 & MT2 may have had an impact on SMT1 - SMT5... nothing that happens within SMT can effect MT.
Yeah it’s almost like the past has little to no effect what ya do to affect the future
… is there an abridged version…?
isnt smtiv just a sequel to 2
Does SMT share the same multiverse with Devil May Cry?
No
NO
You need give us updated timeline!
5:40 people dont like persona?
most people say there isnt a timeline
raidou is the exception
so catherine is the normal universe
Damn it Teddie
Source on the music
Most of the music originates from different MegaTen games. Let me know which specific track you want and I’ll identify it for you.
Appreciate your theory and you taking the time and effort to create it. However, I feel like you literally just said these are each their own games made by the same company and may or may not connect based on Easter eggs or something else. You just used the terminals as a means of proof for the multiple timelines. I really think most fans overthink this. It literally could be anything you think of. And really, in that way I could easily say every game made by blizzard is connected, just different universes. I still enjoyed your in depth explanation of stuff, but I feel it's an over complicated way of saying they may or may not connect simply because they were made by the same company. I still view each as it's own game, and thus it's very obviously it's own "universe".
But you should really make more videos on smt, I think you got a good thing going:
Actually, I can see now why you made the video - reaching the end and all. You made it as a support with "rules" so that others can CREATE a timeline. That makes sense why it's so vague and doesn't really make a legitimate timeline.
Nekwork Nekwork Nekwork
u sound like matpat 😂
Crimson-Kusanagi ',
Is that a good or bad thing? 🤣
Mayhzon Could be taken both ways
i still hate persona but the theory is so good lol
Benjamin Ruiz Why do you hate persona?
I hate this all began because an edgy high schooler wanted to play God until he starts simping for some japanese Stacy. It was always about the waifus since day 1.
persona 5 already lost its SMT title, guess its completely not part of megaten anymore.
Billy Djufri Persona and most of the spinoffs didn't have the SMT name in Japan. The ones that came to the West with SMT in the name was a decision made by Atlus USA/West.
im not from west, but my first non smt persona is p4g.
I feel headache since 3:29.
maldita sea porque tuve que nacer en latinoamerica xD yo que amo shin megami tensei, voy a tratar de entender lo que pueda ;-;
XD no tengo dinero
Alguna idea si existe una comunidad en español?
no se la verdad, pero estoy aprendiendo ingles xD
Niro Legend si amas Shin Megami Tensei como no sabes ingles ? ._.
Todos los juegos estan en ingles
Canon refers to the main time line, not alternate branches or what if sequels. So no.persona is not canon outside it's own universe and does not make it canon in the shin megami tensei universe. Using raidous being able to be in nocturne is just as laughable as saying devil may cry is part of the smt universe.
this type of video is useless without timeline graphics
Poorly spoken and hard to understand.
The fact that so many connections can be made and disproven at certain points is because of the fact the same creators had something to do with each game and dealt with the same themes and story elements. One can simply say because a deity is in the game, to some extent there is validity in the reincarnation. However, Persona has since removed Shin Megami Tensei from recent titles, and I believe that was for a reason. Again, you still have deities being used, the same lore surrounding the figures, so it would be easy to say it is connected but also wrong because the mythos won't change, leading to an assumption. The Persona series in themselves have world ending scenarios that have nothing to do with Izanagi and Izanami being central unti SMT 4, and honestly, Marie can't simultaneously be a persona you can summon and a NPC, and also be Kusumi no Ookami that is based on the male god, Kusubi. Also, she was an afterthought, not part of the original.
You can literally switch around all deities and claim a reboot or restart, given the series uses major religious and occult figures. It could be Norse, Chinese and they all have creation stories. Some theories can work, but I believe overall, looking at all the parts and offshoots, they are not necessarily canonically connected as any Final Fantasy is theorized to be connected because of similarities and certain lore making a multiverse. Any series could do that, actually.
The series is very occult, if not Luciferian. Like most New Age religion, it comprises of philosophy, religion and the occult. It also attempts to combine all gods and deities as alternate representation of central figures (ones with similar mythos if not cultural variations). Everything leads back to a central conscious, people can tap into the good and bad, become possessed and think they can control these beings. I won't go too far into it, but the theories presented have already been put out there in a package already outside a game series.
Technically, Persona never had the SMT moniker with the very first one having Megami Ibunroku and subsequent titles only having “Persona” in its name. Adding SMT to spin-offs were an Atlus localization decision. This is something I will learn later and not when this video was uploaded. At least from recent memory, Devil Summoner 1 is the only spinoff with SMT in its Japanese release name. Thus, I know now that looking at the titles doesn’t prove/disprove anything. When this video was created years ago, it was my attempt at trying to create a unifying theory that everything is canon in a multiverse. I still standby everything is canon because that’s the nature of a multiverse since there’s infinite number of possibilities. While certain endings lead to another game making it “canon”, it doesn’t mean the other endings have become non-canon, but just didn’t occur in the timeline of the subsequent game in the timeline. I understand the flaws behind what I’ve said in this video because there’s lines in games, such as Nocturne, that contradict what I’ve said. However, this series is canonically connected and this is because of the Amala Network and Raidou XL. While not every game will lead to another, as some titles could be in a completely separate universe, these two are major aspects that connect the entire series in a way that other series don’t explicitly say about their multiverses. If we’re looking at a chronological order, then we can judge what is truly connected and what isn’t in their respective timeline (ex. Raidou Kuzunoha duology taking place before SMT I because of Raidou XL trying to prevent the Cataclysm).