Contracts as a MAGIC SYSTEM?
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2023
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We're used to magic systems full of runes and spell uttered in long-forgotten tongues. But there's another language fantasy stories use all the time that you might not even be aware of. One we have here in the real world: Legalese.
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Your an Epic UA-cam chanel
For my world I developed magic to be an arcane programming language which carries out functions by proximity. It uses runic writing and inscriptions in the programming language and uses the intuitive script to carry out the programmed instructions.
I've been wanting to get Nebula for ages but until they accept paypal, I can't :/
cool video, please kindly consider making a video on a cigarette-based power system 🚬
If anyone wounder why devils need contracts, when they are literally evil. Thing is that that contrary to popular misconception, devils aren't fallen. After all devil is angel of the God. In story of Job, Satan randomly show up God's throne room to make random chat with the Lord. Multiple times he is fulfilling orders of God and only when he fall, it is when final judgment happen. In other sources Satan was also the one who punished raging goat angel Azazel (Samyaza) for fall and disregard to Gods creation. And why it is enemy of Humanity, what is fallen. It is exactly why devils need contract, as only then they are allowed control over sucker. It is also why possessions happen usually to misguided believers. Not sinners.
"I've always... loved listening to you talk about your dreams. This is a contract. I'll give you my heart. In exchange... show me your dreams."
Best boy pochita about to become a heart donor:
Never thought a chainsaw dog’s speech would make me cry
Yet here we are
I can’t remember mines.
I'm so proud to be the 666th like on this comment :)
I really love Chainsaw mans Devil Power system. It's so simple yet contributes so much to the plot and the story, especially the villain.
Same, I love how they tie into the devil's origin and their real world counterparts
having a devils power be determined by how feared they are by society is such a great concept.
It’s a code of laws that an anime (or manga) would usually apply to manage power scales or add a system of logic to determine the causes of who wins or loses a fight, but in chainsaw man it fleshes out the devils as something governed and put under bounds. it makes them feel more grounded, and to be honest, cooler.
tl;dr: i agree it’s amazing
You beat me to the punch good job.
So if there's any big chainsaw man fans here, do tell, does denji ever start spreading horror stories about chainsaws?
I remember somebody bringing up the idea of there being this team of magical lawyers who go around helping people navigate contracts written between them and other powerful beings, and I just find that idea super cool and wholesome.
That idea should be a series
@@thirdplanet4471 it's called the Craft Sequence, by Max Gladstone
@@thirdplanet4471 try simon sues. its pretty similar to this idea
Hello, we've been trying to reach you about your magical staff's extended warranty... 😅
The Pact Webserial mentioned in this video has something like this, except it's a group of people who have sold themselves to demons to escape bad circumstances and now help those demons make deals with diabolists. It's a lot darker and less wholesome lol
And Madoka Magica actually has an interesting interpretation of the whole Monkey's Paw situation. As you said, the girls get their wishes fullfilled as intended by them, however, the story questions on whether what they wish for is actually what they want. Other characters repeatedly warns the others about how when they make a wish, they have to be absolutely sure of that it is what they want, and not what they "think" they want. One character for instance wished to heal the hand of her boyfriend to allow him to follow his dreams, except what she was really after was said boyfriends gratitude and admiration, that he would love her for having made that wish.
It is a sort of reversal of the usual trick. Like it is asking: "what if the one making the wish is the dishonest one?"
So many monkey's paw stories place the ones making the wish as pure and taken advantage of. Madoka Magica meanwhile questions that whole setup.
Probably the start of the dark magical girl genera and I love it. Don’t loose your head with the power of wishes.
@@gdragonlord749 That is a misconception. Even Sailor Moon did have dark undertones, with Magic Knight Rayearth being best known examples. People start thinking that it is pure genre maybe because of light hearted Pretty Cure as last remnant of the genre?
The actual interesting part of Madoka is that Kyobey is actually not evil and it is sort of oblivious toward damage caused by his actions (good example of Eldritch Entity). Even his moral supremacy is technically accurate, despite that he may look like hell spawn later in the story. Because yes. The show warn us about dark side of the wishes. It is technically girls who screw themselves, ending as what they hope to fight.
Kyosuke was never her boyfriend. She wanted a boy to pay attention to her, who never gave her more attention than being a friend. The story swings back and forth with the idea that Sayaka fought with her desire to persue Kyosuke, and the fact that Kyosuke barely registered the efforts she gave, that it literally ate her up inside.
I guess a modern trend in manga i have noticed making a sworn promise. Both Hunter X Hunter and Jujutsu Kaisen have self made contracts that boost abilities in cost of a certain condition or setback
as far as hxh goes i treat nen as an extension of the human spirit, hence why it follows a contract. it almost "knows what you mean" in a way. only absolute psychopaths would feel absolutely nothing from a lie. it's kind of like using cheese to get an achievement in a video game. you know you should have done it the right way, and while you don't feel like putting in the effort to do it, you do still know you didn't do it the way you were supposed to. so if you break your contract, you feel it in yourself that it broke.
@@pikminman13 I like the way nen contracts work:
The more specific the conditions, the more powerful and less costing it or energy becomes, and it can work in various manners.
Kurapika make a contract that, in his powers in red-eyes mode, be used ONLY against members of the Phantom Troupe, he becomes a master in every Nen variation. Considering there's only like 13 people max, that's a heck of a limitation of on whom he could use his powers.
While Gon exchanged his life force to achieve his peak physical form to kill (only) Pitou, in which they couldn't do absolutely nothing against Gon besides being massacred.
@@SuperSylarKurapika only limited his ability "Chain Jail" to the Phantom Troupe. He also stakes his life on that limit to make it more effective.
His red eyes mode "Emporer Time" can be used against whomever, but his life force is spent rapidly while in Emporer Time. Specifically, every second in Emporer Time ages him an hour.
@@SuperSylarHunterXHunter is great but the author really did not think through the implication of this contract thing on the world. Since contracts can be made on the fly (like in Gon's case) and seem to guarantee victory if specific enough, anyone can basically kill anyone. Random dude who just learned about Nen and contracts can sacrifice his life to defeat any villain or hero. Assassinations would be impossible to prevent if you have an army of willing-to-die soldiers.
Maybe i'm missing things since i only saw the anime (the newer one), but it seems a bit silly to me.
@@Lilith_Harbinger I think the main concept in this case is how much pratice the user has with their nen ability.
Gon had to train how to focus his aura for his jajaken, getting stronger the more he concentrated, while Killua was tortured with electricity from early age before being able to change his aura to electricity while training his nen, which could imply he would be one of the only people able to do this.
If you’re considering someone who just learned about nen, they’ll most likely have zero proficency with any nen ability they might develop that also take consideration the user’s personality to see what they could do.
For “suicide soldiers” seems like a huge waste of potential, since it takes way too much time to make anything with nen, and they’d do it just to garantee some deaths? Seems logical to me why no one would do it.
the idea of two mutual parties getting their powers through a contract, sort of like magical marriage sounds awesome. Two regular mortals wanting to increase their magical power? Symbiotic relationship between a bodyless supernatural creature needing a host who will get some powers in exchange? Saving a dying weaker twin by binding with magic creating a unique magical power based on that? A spirit accepting a human as their conduit Shaman King Style? So much motivation.
Ooh I love that idea! Neither party has magic without the other. What is really interesting is what might be the cost or limitations of the magic.
learn about darkins from league of legends lore, you would like that
You should read Pact, this is basically how familiars work in that system
In the series I'm working on something like that happens.
This actually reminds me of a fanfic I read a while back, called "Through the Hedge" where the entirety of the Fae realm runs off of this - you can make a contract with anyone... and anyTHING. As long as both parties accept the contract, then it is binding, and offers great powers for both. One character barters some of her sense of touch to the stone of the chambers she's enslaved to clean, so she doesn't make sound upon them - her owner, The Maestro, with silently flense any servant who makes noise during their duties. As well, she forms a deal with the sharp obsidian that forms into glassy stalactites and come crashing down on anything below them that moves too swiftly or too noisily... and sometimes shed shards without warning anyways; the deal brokered is to let her not be cut by them, and so she grows them into her skin instead, carrying them and letting the shards experience movement.
Something for something, nothing for nothing - that is the rule of the Faerie. And contracts are a trade with clear rules on either side.
Hey, can you share more about Through The Hedge? I try to google it but it gets me Over The Hedge fanfiction and other HP stuff.
Great to see Pact mentioned here! Such an awesome world and magic system, and there's so much of it to read between Pact and Pale (and 'bow willing, more to come)!
Nice, obligatory pact comment
Ive been looking for an interesting way to make a contract system that can both make the person who presents the contract as a good guy but the person who signed the contract as a villan. I think it would be a nice change of pace and something you dont see often
That’s rather interesting. Usually the contract magic system in most media tend to follow similar paths in the manner that they work And how the antagonist/ bad guy is the one who comes up with the contract, so It would be very interesting to see a contract magic system makes the signer the villain and not the victim.
You could make the villain deceive the hero by making their contract seem to be for good while they plan on use for evil things
@@Nis10204 thanks! I try to find interesting and new things to write
@@airplanes_aren.t_real well what I was thinking was the the contract giver was a genuinely good man who helps people with his contracts and the villain is the contract signers who manipulated the contract giver
Oddly enough, a bad movie called “Santa Slays,” is about Santa being evil and a contract with an angel is all that keeps him in check.
The Bloodsworn Trilogy has an interesting contract system. The Blood Oath is a ritual that binds those who take it to fulfill their Oath. If they even think of breaking said oath, their blood basically begins boiling until they either die, or they continue to intend to hold the Oath. There's a part where a character had to plot for months to intend on reuniting a character with their mother just to keep the Oath "happy"
PACT MENTIOOON, love love seeing it get mentioned. Praying this gets more people to read it.
I had the exact same reaction!
And the other Wildbow works too hopefully!
@@micahsallus156 I've read all his stuff but Pale and about half of Twig (working through Twig before I read Pale, on arc 12). It's all fantastic.
Has Tale Foundry done a video on magic systems that would invoke Scott Alexander's UNSONG yet? The Names are a pretty basic magic system, but Placebomancy is interesting and especially the applied kabbalah used from Yetzirah.
Nice, obligatory pact comment
Pact! Its so damn good and i love its magic system.
I’ve had an idea for a dnd character for a while now. A warlock lawyer who offers their services to other mortals seeking to make a deal with a supernatural being.
There's potential there for the character to become a patron and/or have obligations of their contract met by subcontractors
@@acadiano10 > be patroned by a Trickster deity
> trick people into believing you are a deity, pleasing your patron
> strike deals with mortals which greatly favor your patron
> wits your way into having your patron grant you more and more power
>become trickster deity
It made my day to see an in depth reference to Wildbow's Otherverse stories on one of these writing trope channels. I love how performative the magic is in the Otherverse, with the ambient spirits serving as both the audience eating up the drama, and an impartial but swayable jury arbitrating on every claim made. Definitely a universe where a well placed villainous monologue might actually help you win.
Bless you for mentioning Pact. It's a great story with such a good magic system, but it's an incredibly niche fandom, haha
Aaaand that's how you get "sovereign citizens".
To them, law is magic and if you scream the right incantations loud enough, you win.
Because it is, they just don’t know how to play the game very well.
Cop: "Ma'am, please step out of the vehicle"
"Sovereign Citizen": **goes on whacko S.C. diatribe**
Cop: "I'm sorry Ma'am, you have insufficient MP to cast that spell"
Damn
Woo a mention of Pact! It's one of my favourite Urban Fantasy stories and I'm glad that you guys know of it too!
The Inheritance Cycle does this quite well. Especially when you examine the ancient language and how wording affects "spells". One example that i like is when Oromis froze Eragon's legs. When Eragon said "Release my legs" he was stuck in that spell until Oromis stopped his freezing spell. Oromis tells Eragon not to deal in absolutes, due to that when used it becomes a battle of who has more energy avaliable to them. One cannot stop the spell until it is complete. The wording "lessen the force holding my legs" would have done better and, if it didn't work, could be cancelled. The ancient language also doesn't allow one to speak lies, but an entire society has learned to speak around the limitations. I love how it's done.
Yes! Thank you so much for mentioning The cycle. Love the books, amazing magic, pretty much limitless. ps. the name of names is surprisingly unpowerful, completely subverted with wordless magic. Wordless magic makes sense in that, because it's truly unconstrained, not even by it's name.
OMG! I've never seen any of the UA-camrs i watch mention Wildbow! Definitely one of my all time favorites, so I'm always hoping to hear mention of one of his series in these kinds of videos!
I remember that with the Declaration of Independence, the signers said that they were putting on the line “our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor.” I think that that is what I put on the line when I sign a contract.
I like it when the contract isn't expected to be fulfilled so the signer has to suffer the consequences, I once read a story about a guy who met a demon, the demon offers him to become his slave as long as the signer gives him a bit of his own blood every single day, the guy at first enjoys such power but he later starts to feel to tired because he is unable to produce enough new blood every day, then one day he refuses to give more blood and the demon reminds him of what will happen the day blood isn't given, both entities swap bodies and the previous owner becomes the new slave, the new demon cries and confused but the demon reminds him that the contract hasn't been broken, both still signed it and if the new human one day refuses to give blood then both will return to their original bodies, this makes the new demon a bit happy but he didn't count with the new human to have a rich and great diet that made him produce enough blood while the new demon doesn't know how to properly drink enough blood in order to drain him faster, the new human later reveals this is something that weak demons do to escape hell, so the old human was doomed from the start to become a new demon.
My favorite magic contract is between Liliana Vess and 4 super powerful demons from across the MTG multiverse, brokered by elder dragon Nicol Bolas. She did as the contract said and would do the bidding of those four demons in exchange for the power to help her control a magic item, she then defaulted on it by killing the demons which the fine print stated ownership of her contract would go to Nicol Bolas if she defaulted on it by her demon master dying.
In the anime 'Log Horizon' one of the characters creates Contract Magic which can alter reality itself. First use of this Contract Magic was when he turned an NPC, who was dying and everyone loved him, into a Adventurer like himself and the others.
Yeah, it was one of the only world class spells used that we were able to witness.
@@nyxxose the other was that illusion magic that one fox princess player had that completely hid her data making others think she was someone else
Contracts as A magic system is both a common and uncommon one depending on how you define it.
Which in some ways can be really annoying or very fascinating.
One I had enjoyed was A twist on it with the focus of the contract on the meaning behind it rather than the words written upon it where breaking the spirit of the contract enacted the penalty rather than breaking the letter of it, but not the spirit of it.
this is why the Craft sequence is forever one of my favorite magical worlds, since the magic system is literally just the legal system
Where even gods can default and go into foreclosure 😮
We can see the compulsion aspect with Wyll in Baldur's Gate III in that he was physically unable to speak the terms of his pact to others. This destroyed his relationship with his father because he could not explain the details of why he agreed to a pact with his patron.
Holy moly such timing. I find this an interesting way to approach magic in fiction!
Wow, I did not expect to find Pact being mentioned out in the wild when I wasn't even looking for it. Whoo!
And hey, this means you know of Wildbow, at least passingly. I certainly don't expect it but it would be nice to see more videos about Wildbow's web serials. Worm, Pact, Twig, Ward, Pale, his web serials a really niche but they're also really good reads so long as you don't mind some grit and elements of eldritch, body, and sometimes even psychological horror.
The books Ascendance of a Bookworm also makes interesting use of contract magic
There's another example of a Contract magic system, in the Anime Log Horizon, which is an isekai based on an MMORPG world. The protagonist has a subclass , and in one point of the story he discover the ability to create Magical Contracts, which is defined as a World-Class magic as it's powerful enough to rewrite the rules of the world. He used this magic to assign a dying NPC the secondary class giving him the status to alter his state of being an NPC and live as any other aventurer human, so he can respawn.
It's a nice way to have a contract magic system, but it's not exploited enough and looks pretty complicated.
I like those systems but also finds them a little cheap, as they often serves as a simplified deus ex-machina where if you need to give powers to somebody you can create any divine/external being who gives it's power. Chainsaw man, Naruto, even Card Captor Sakura uses these gods/devils/magical beasts, and some of these powers feels a cheap way to make a plot.
That is too broken. I advise writers to avoid or be *very* careful with broken stuff. Oh and I have watched Log Horizon anime, although idk there was such a thing with the NPC.
@@ultimaxkom8728 yep, it's broken and I think that's why they didn't used it much in the anime. They used it two times, and the scene I described was the one where Rundelhaus died, so Shiroe by this contract assign him the status of Adventurer so he can revive.
Even if it's broken, as the audience I found it pretty interesting mechanic and I would have loved to see more, but yes, if it's overused it would be bad for the story.
@@LuisCassih The problem with unrestricted broken stuff is if it's used or overused then it'll feel cheap, *but* if it's _not_ used or is _underused,_ then it would be a questionable hole.
Slayers has an interesting one. In that setting's magic systems, Black Magic (and the lost Holy Magic), the spellcaster basically asks a demon "hey, can I borrow your power for a little bit?"
This especially comes up when fighting Ruby Eye Shabranigdu, who is the top demon and maker of all the demons, so trying to use any Black Magic against him fails because no demon will attack him.
Holy sh*t, I didn't think there would be a direct pact reference. Good on you! It's a great universe, and I'm happy you're bringing it to a wider audience.
In HunterxHunter people can self-impose restrictions upon themselves, to make their powers stronger it’s really interesting
I really like how vague it is. It seems that the power increase is directly proportional to how much the user gives up, but even that's never stated. We have to infer most of it, and that makes the system more interesting imo. It's also just really fun, because the characters have an in-universe reason to make their powers unnecessarily complicated.
Wildbow's Work is amazing!
I’ll be honest I only clicked on the video because I was really hoping he’d mention the Otherverse. It’s so good
never said it before but that animated intro is sooooo good. It is just so nice to look at the music so delightful and it all just fits.
I'm surprised you brought up the SCP Foundation and not it's interpretation of the fey! Reading those entries and all of the Faeries' mealy mouthed magical contracts and rules are always a blast! :3
I remember a Chilean folklore story about a farmer called Bartolo Lara, he was so poor that pacted with the devil to get giants amounts of money, and offering his soul, the only thing he had left as payment.
The devil asked when he wanted his soul taken, and Bartolo said "tomorrow is fine" and the devil perplexed by Bartolo's decision asked the reason why tomorrow, after all everyone else asked for decades in advance so they can enjoy the benefits of the pact, then Bartolo said "but I want the pact to be written in paper". So the devil wrote in a piece of paper "Bartolo Lara, I wont take your soul today, but tomorrow" and left.
The next day the devil appeared to take Bartolo's soul but Bartolo said to read the paper "... not today, but tomorrow." Bartolo pointed out, and while the devil was there he asked for more money.
After months and years of the same situation the devil recognized he was fooled and gave up on trying to take Bartolo's soul.
The story ends there but it is believed that Bartolo enjoyed the money until the end of his life and his soul was never taken.
God damit, I'm writing something with this exact concept at the moment
Me too, though I am looking for something exquisite to make the contracts look unique, unlike any others
It's not new. EX: Faust. So go on ahead.
based Hollow Knight pfp
@@poorme1art Yeh.
@@dubuyajay9964 I went to a school named after him, in the town were he was last seen/ made the bargeng, where do you think I stole the idea from?
The roleplaying game Changeling the Lost has its entire magic system based on Contracts with aspects of reality. And the fey in general (specially Fae lords) are BIG on deals and contracts.
next video: taxes as a magic system
It gives you the ability to dodge the IRS
In the Destiny universe, there were ancient Wish Dragons called Ahamkara. They were a sort of living monkey's paw, granting the desires of a person, even if the person doesn't explicitly say their desires aloud, or even if they didn't consent to it. That said, their wishes tend to warp the wish the person asks. The wish granting properties are so strong that even their bones need to be plated in Silver, unless their latent Wish energy could corrupt wayward Guardians.
Eris Morn, for example, clutched a bone of an Ahamkara after losing her vision to a species of aliens called the Hive. As she wished for vision, she encountered one of these Hive, which she killed and took its eyes. This all but sealed away her connection towards Humanity, leaning her more towards the magics of the Hive.
Another example, Uldren Sov, had the bone of an Ahamkara oh him when he came across a dead Eliksni. As he held it in his arms, he desired for it to live once more, and it did, though warped and not right. It was the first Scorn, basically zombie insect aliens, and these Scorn were ultimately pulled under the control of the Witness - the ultimate welder of the the Darkness and enemy of Humanity.
I'm actually working on my own contract based magic system where many things are contracts: Spells are contracts, discounts to spell costs are a contract, imprisoning yourself in your own pocket dimension is a "prisoners contract". Contracts are typically signed via "overseers", surrogates of the god of war, but signing a contract directly with the god of war? That's where the real juicy power comes from! These contracts are also how the god of war influences the politics of the world. Thanks for the great video!
When you got to Pact I literally got goosebumps, it's rare to hear Wildbow's story mentioned outside the fandom and they certainly deserve to be more well known
This has inspired me to write a book where the entire magic system is based around a library of contracts, which you can peruse and pick a contract to sign. Sign it, and you now have a spell you can use by pulling out the contract and fulfilling its conditions!
And what’s the first thing I’ve done? Begin writing the Library Catalogue!
I think it can be a kind of interesting give and take kind of deal. Imagine making a deal with some kind of spirit or otherworldly being for power but in exchange, you have to let them experience something of physical existence each time you use a spell. Like if you wanna cast fire ball, you need to sacrifice something flammable to them cause they wanna feel heat or how it feels to burn. A healing spell could require sacrificing medicine to them so they can examine it to figure out how it heals people in any way. Maybe sacrificing an animal or even just a piece of them for that animal's unique traits cause the entity wants to either taste it, take it apart to figure it out, study how it decays. Could characterize them as a very naive being who doesn't understand the processes and nature of physical reality, exchanging fairly easy material and substances for reality altering magic.
In Ascendance of a Bookworm there is a magic contract system that is used by the entire country from laws to agreements within and between guilds. Breaking the contract however always leads to death and cannot be changed unless all still living parties join in to do so.
The contracts can only be valid on parchement paper, which is a piece of animal skin paper that would take an entire month of a soldier's pay to buy, which makes it much more likely that the owners of the contracts are either merchants or nobles. These classes are also the only ones that can most likely read, since there are no schools or cheap books for the commoners to use for learning, which is why the commoners are very wary of signing magical contracts, as they can't read them at all.
Richer parties can also hide a piece of extra parchement inside a contract, intentionally tricking the signer into an unfair deal.
Due to a typo in my contract, I gained all the power and knowledge in the universe and youthful immortality in exchange for my soup.
Can I just say that the opening library seen is gorgeous
Other than contracts you could possibly also look into such things as runes or magic circles, I remember in Mushoku Tensei novel magic circles were used as a sort of "programming" language for magic, which allowed the main character and his friends to create rather complex mechanisms based around magic cores and overlapping multistacked plates with magic circle carvings.
Might as well mention Tyranny game with its spell creating system based on combining different symbols together, and similar systems in other games.
I've personally fallen deeply in love with author Erin Morgensterns 2 novels, "The Night Circus" and "The Starless Sea". The second being a top all time favorite. "The Night Circus" however, carries the type of magical contract system they touch on here. Two magicians, create a magical contract with two children as their pawns in a personal game that carries far greater stakes. The two children, spend their lives growing up, never even understanding the rules or consequences of the contract that binds them to this contest, and each other. It's beautiful and mysterious. I still read both because nothing I find so far on my own competes with her sense of mystery and constant surprises. I hope she's working on something else.
My favorite is where the agreement could be something cheap (like you just need to pay some honey or a disposable razor) but if you don't pay up the debt collection is steep (your soul).
Also, the beings can be bound longer than the contract. Because power of friendship or something (well the demons aren't sure either).
Demon Road is an incredible trilogy about contracts with demons and how the characters subvert and use them to their advantage.
I know its such a small detail but I love the intro animation. Its such a smooth and good looking animation.
Signed up for Nebula today. Too many interesting videos from Tale Foundry.
Woooo a mention of Pact!!! An epic serial! Though as niche as the Waterfire Saga and Monster Blood Tattoo... Two book series I also recommend
To decide to never sign a single contract is, in a sense, a contract in and of itself. It's a contract made with one's self. If one does not decide to uphold it then one can decide how one's self gets punished. I'd say that a requesting of luck is a binding contract in many circumstances. To lose the ability to make a non-ideal sequence of movements in trade for a perfect performance. I'd personally only decide to sign as many truly good contracts as I can. Two taps of a finger = Everything is made truly good in a way that does not change true good or good itself from what it was prior to the contract's existence. Anything other than two taps of a finger = There isn't a result of the contract.
Let's not also forget an anime that uses contracts as a magic system by the name of "Puella Magi Madoka Magica"!
did u watch the video?
They mention it at 6:48 in the video. They didn't quite got the pronunciation correct, but it's a nice summary of the anime plus a recommendation to watch it.
you'd have thought the clips would having given the game away at least. ah well, maybe next time.
I love your channel so much. The presentation and the knowledge is incredible. Can I ask if you have happened upon music as magic? It's a concept that's been in my mind for quite a while and i think a video on it would be really interesting.
I love these magic systems videos as well. They're always so insightful. And Madoka Magica is the bomb! I'm looking to the new movie they're putting out.
This reminds me of the contracts and power level systems of a webtoon called Savior of Divine Blood people called players go into originally 3 types of gates they are bronze, silver, and gold and the main character goes into the only ever existing rainbow gate and while in these gates, they do a trial by one of the various supernatural entities behind them therefore, making a contract with them they inherited their powers and abilities and as far as I can tell into the story there are no drawbacks for getting the powers when they do the contracts
I 've mentioned this before but log horizon utilizes this magic system through the main character. shiro holder of the title of the villain in glasses or debauchery tea parties strategist.
he isn't evil but he is very merciless and scary able to think several minutes ahead of everyone during battle. he is an enchanter (the stereotypical buffer and debuffer) his subjob is scribe.
when the game became real and his soul began inhabiting his new body, players discovered they can make things using their rl knowledge or their class skills if only they do it manually without relying on the system. when they do shiro wonders how he can use his sub job to make something new. after a while we get a massive event that ends up with one of the people of the land (in game npc who have become real people) dies after pretending to be an adventurer (people who can't die and are different from the people of the land) the boy is revived using magic and the scene plays with the party he had been trying to revive him in the center of a cross roads, shiro ends up having to drop everything to save this npc he'd grown attatched to somewhat, after some creative use of in world magic, he offers a contract to the now conscious but now undead npc written on the top level ingredients and by a level 90 scribe, the symbolism is very heavy, it stipulates that shiro's guild would make him an adventurer like them and he would have to join their guild.
he signs in a rather emotional moment and the contract signed sends out a massive glittering golden yellow pillar of light that lifts up the npc, because he has to die at least once. he survives and becomes the first npc to become an adventurer. it's noted later that it's a world changing magic.
the metaphorical symbolism is obvious shiro is a villain that will help people, and is considered a devil. it's funny another character notes that shiro is worse than the devil because he doesn't know he does bad things while the devil does. so you could also categorize him as a Byronic hero as well.
Another example I can think of once again from Full Metal Daemon Muramasa is the Law of Balance. While it is technically a vow, it functions more like a contract that binds the main character to it, to claim the life of a friend for every enemy slain. And there is no getting around this. If you try to no abide by the contract it will then force the issue. The thing is, it does indeed have a loophole. The main villain of the story is in fact also under this same vow, but she is able to kill indiscriminately simply from the fact she sees herself as above humanity and that she doesn't hate those she kills, thus she doesn't have to kill those she loves. And this also ends up being played in a really interesting way in the storys conclusion. Not to spoil things, but the contract ends up being used for a rather interesting twist.
Another one I can think of that is a bit of a spoiler for the first Utawarerumono game where it is revealed that the main female lead actually made a deal with the local devil to save the life of her dying younger sister, swearing her soul to this being. The twist is that the main hero who happens to be an amnesiac is in fact this very devil, and the reason she is so ready to serve him at every opportunity is cause she is trying to uphold her end of the bargain despite he no longer remembering having made the deal. And the funny thing is, despite not being aware of it, the deal is still in effect meaning that the younger sister the deal was made for is effectively immortal, anytime she revives a mortal injury she simply comes back to life on the spot.
Another is perhaps the Commandments from Avetsa of Black and White. Similar to a Geas, the characters have to abide by certain restrictions and gains various boons as long as they stay true to them, but face divine retribution should they be violated. And both the heroes and villains are subject to these. One character for instance has to obey every order they are given, but in turn gains both the power, abilities and knowledge to carry out those orders no matter of past experiences or skill. The thing is though that the Commandments actually do differentiate between if you violated them intentionally or by accident, with different punishments for each.
And then there is Bokurano which is perhaps one of the most one sided deals out there. There, 15 kids are made to enter a contract to fight 15 battles against giant monsters. Only that you die after having completed your fight, the monsters are in fact mechs themselves and are piloted by 15 people also in the same contract but from a different reality. And the loser of every battle have their version of Earth and their whole universe annihilated. All this in what is basically a giant weeding of alternate universes. To determine which to keep and which to get rid of. For those forced to partake in this there is nothing to gain and everything to lose.
I love the videos about magic systems, can you do one about slightly more unorthodox ones? Like music as magic, or dancing as magic?
I wrote a short story, just something to toss an idea out where a guy makes a deal with a demon who if not for the horns would pass as a human. He read the contract over quickly but not quite carefully. So when he gets his revenge and is satisfied,. the demon shows up, without his horns. Now the guy reads the contract more carefully. The line he thought said "Signer become teh Demon's" as in selling your soul, was actually 'Signer becomes the Demon" the ninth in a line to take the demon's name and powers. But the powers could not be used to harm anyone without just cause as the original demon was one of Justice and Vengeance. (yeah later seen the movies and wondered if I had seen it in the comics before and not realized it)
The mentioning of Pact gave me an ungodly amount of happiness. There's nowhere near enough mention of Pact and Pale on this site or the internet in general.
Absolutely love your intro!
It makes me so happy to see the geas brought up on this channel, I will cry.
this reminded me of how the offices change hands in Piers Anthonys 'Incarnations of Immortality' series, would be interested to hear your take on it, especially as far as the concept of magical contractual obligation goes.
Before watching the video, my answer to the intitial proposed question:
I would be the kind of person who'll sit there and start negotiating, not stopping until either the contract actually *favors* me over the devil, or the devil just gives up and bothers someone else.
Given how the tales of these types of "deals" tend to go, I'd kinda have almost all the bargaining power as there simply isn't anything I want *badly enough* to be an easy target. Sure, there are things I might consider signing for, but I'm just content enough with my existence that I'd be perfectly fine saying no and going on as I was.
I have to admit this is probably one of my favorite changes to watch on my lunch brake the vidio is long enfe to fill it and makes grate inspiration for my dnd adventures
Love this channel so much 🥰
Duuuude! The second you started mentioning geises, I immediately was reminded of the book series called Geis by Alexis Deacon! In which, the main character was tricked into signing a geis thinking it was an agreement clause in the king's will and testament. Instead, the geis states that whosoever agrees, is indeed entitled to the kings inheretents, but only if they succeed in beating all their competitors in a set of trials proving you worthy of not only the king's wealth, but also the very crown itself. I got the opportunity to read the first book, "a matter of life and death," in my local library and have been looking for the second ever since because of the art in it being so whimsical, humor, hilarious, and the plot very enticing
Great video !
I'm writing a story where one of the major magical items works on a contract system, but does so by burrowing into the subject's subconscious. It subtly alters the thought process and actions of the individual in such a way that they try to fulfill the terms of the contract without even realizing that they're doing it.
and for a cosmic deal fate stay night literally has a contract with earth, earth helps you become a hero or what you want but when you bargain with it, it makes you a timeless counter guardian that protects earth from extinction, you get put in the throne of heroes near the root of akasha (the literal origin of all things ever) and in doing so your pulled out of time when you die and you have to kill humans usually in the thousands in order to preserve the greater good.
I love his voice. It's so relaxing
You are one of the few creators in the writing community who talks about actual storytelling and interesting ideas rather than the act of writing, and I appreciate that. It seems like productive conversation has gone the way of the dinosaurs sometimes. It's always "Never do this", and "Always do that", and "TOP TEN WRITING TIPS FOR [GENRE]", and "I'M SICK OF [TROPE]". It stopped being about creativity, and I'm sick of it.
Oh, and name dropping my favorite anime and pronouncing it correctly? Chef's kiss.
Never in my life did I think would I see Madoka Magicas and the Home Improvements mans in the same video, you always blow away my expectations
Please put Tim Allen in Madoka Movie 4 Shaft
Stormlight Archive has some decent examples of this. A character therein offers people a Boon and a Curse. The severity usually seems to balance with each other.
One of my favorites was a guy whose curse was that his vision was always upside down.
Theres an interesting RPG maker game out there called "Noel the Mortal Fate" which is about how a dude has amassed alot of power by tricking *other people* into making deals with devils FOR HIM rather than making one himself. This makes other people take the drawbacks of the contracts while he gets away scott free, and this leads to one contractee and one devil to team up to finally take him down. It really plays around with the idea of magically binding contracts as Devils usually curse the signee to some ironic punishment.
Points to the video for not Spoiling Madoka Magica despite plot twists in it being relevant to the topic at hand. Just say 'theres other conditions to the contract' and let people's curiosity get the better of them. OSP had good videos on topics like this too but they would spoil any show or movie with no warning, and they dont seem to understand why spoilers would ruin someone's interest in watching something. I saw them give a spoiler warning once and it was on a topic about endings specifically.
In english(can't say for the original wording) accept doesn't mean to eat. For Cú Chulainn, he might have been able to accept the food and stash it somewhere. Maybe even give it to some else.
can i just say wow ur videos are just beautiful
I assume that Harry would die if he didn't participate in the Triwizard Tournament, since the Goblet of Fire most likely works off the Unbreakable Vow (which we learn about in the sixth book), which kills someone who doesn't complete it's terms
The Contracts as Magic idea was explored a lot in the RPG Tyranny (by Obsidian), and it's explored/brokenm down well, and you can even find loopholes if you play a smart character! Highly recommend.
Ah contracts. basically an evil thing at this point example of evil contract? CUPHEAD
One series I found had interesting magic system that I've never seen anyone talk about is a YA series called The Spoken Mage. In it, the very act of writing is magic, even something like scribbling random letters in the sand with a stick can cause an explosion if people don't have enough magical ability to control it and even if they do they need years of training first. It naturally results in a very strictly class-based society where even learning to read and write is completely illegal (and requires life-imprisonment, since once you've learned how you are permanently a danger to society) except for the select few families with the natural ability to control it.
The series itself is pretty standard magic school stuff, but I found the magic system interesting enough to finish it all.
I wonder if the Obsidian Mountain series by Mercedes Lackey and James Mallory has some of this? High Magic seems like your traditional magic system, but the way Wild Magic seems to work feels very much in line with signing contracts with the magic itself. A Wild Mage casting a spell winds up more of a negotiation, the Mage detailing what they want, while the Wild Magic itself tell them the cost, if I remember rightly there is some wriggle room for the mage to change details of what they want to try and effect the price... but ultimately nothing happens until the mage agrees to the price, and they cannot gain any further uses of magic until they fulfill their end of the contract. (unless the price stipulated a time period, like the main character's 1 year vow of chastity and celibacy, as long as they don't break their end during this time period the mage may bargain for more uses of magic.)
The Dresden Files put this to very good use, with the addition of the Unseelie Fae.
I was just offered a deal by a devil in a certain, very popular game. What a great timing to watch this video!
It's so weird when I hear references to wildbow and his work because I just got into his works this year so seeing a reference on this channel I've been watching since it's beginnings is just so weird but awesome
For an interesting alternative take on the cost of breaking a contract with magic/the universe, I have to recommend Diane Duane's older series The Young Wizards. Becoming a wizard in this setting requires that you agree to fight against the slow death of everything, but you do have the option to hang up the wand at any time you decide you are unwilling to continue the fight. It doesn't kill you, though it does deprive you of magic. The bigger cost is the loss of all knowledge of magic, including any relationships you have built because of having once had access to magic. Friends, mentors, allies, any people you met as part of or while in the course of doing magic simply no longer exist to you, aside from a slight sense of loss should you ever cross paths with them again.
Oh, and you also suffer permanent depression from the certainty that your life was something more once upon a time, but never being able to figure out what exactly is missing.
for a moment i thought i missed out on this amazing concept because i have none in my stories - but then i realised that i already made 3 at least of them, they're just not the stereotypical signed contract 'deal with the devil' kind.
in The Fair(y)trade Foundation, Miss Liquorice makes a contact with Cottonfairy Candyfart, which is really just a mundane business form to make them co-owners of the company. but since he is a fae it unintendly becomes magic, at least guarding her against the influences of the other fae.
(don't question my naming ability, there's a deeper meaning behind those, it all makes sense.)
the others are from my pirate story. the main character Piers unknowingly makes a deal with the god of theatre. under the impression of exchanging stories at a bar, he trades in his own story, and therefore his existence, and becomes a new character in the legend of the pirate king.
the knights of roses each put a rose tattoo on their body. when they make an oath, the rose blooms and transforms into a phantasmal weapon with terms and conditions.
Banana Bahamama was the first person to plant a life tree and so got a deal with the earth to live with the trees until the end of all life.
in the present time of the story she's the oldest being on the surface world.
One of my favorite shows when I was little was called Xiaolin Showdown. In it, a villain by the name Chase Young makes a contract with a demon named Hannibal by drinking a soup made of dragons. It's not a paper he signs, all he has to do is drink the soup. According to what the demon says, he can only fulfill his destiny of being the greatest warrior in history on the side of evil, and he will get that by drinking that soup, and giving up his soul. It is shown later on that the demon itself doesn't own his soul, since Chase is perfectly capable of betraying it and trap it. but the warrior is unable to *not* be evil (even says at some point that being bad is an acquired taste).
I like the idea that even if the contract is absolute, and he cannot go back to the good side, he can work with others to go around the wording and help prevent truly terrible endings, without going against the need of being evil.
I am currently writing something about it so I am thinking about it a lot.
What if the contracts did not come in paper forms? That's what all Ghost Riders have to deal with. Mephisto did not give them papers to sign. He just talked them into agreeing with his deals that are sealed with both parties willingly shaking their hands after both sides accepted the set conditions of the deals. Aside from purely relying on memories, perspectives and interpretations of each condition, what can the Ghost Riders do to break free from Mephisto's chains?
Verbal Contract is still a contract
Shotgunning Mephisto in the face, I'd imagine. That tends to put a damper on the contract lmao
There is actually two whole web-serials written like this by Wildbow. Pact and Pale! You gain power by performing with confidence and making oaths and promises, and breaking them leaves you gainsaid (in the case of lies), draining your power significantly, or oathsworn (In case of broken oaths/promises/pacts) Leaving you pretty much unable to do anything utilising the spirits of the world anymore, not even defend yourself. There are community audiobooks of both!
I came up with a character with the ability of ink, he typically used it as a weapon and spellcasting medium but he also used it for contracts, this character would borrow power from ghosts, fairies, cryptids, etc. so after years of custom writing each and every contract he came up with a few template, summon, borrow and teach types, summon was typically used on cryptids and ghosts which would bring forth the contracted entity, borrow was typically used on spirits and intelligent monsters like harpies and sirens, he could replicate one of the skills or traits that they had, whereas teach is used on more magically inclined creatures (typically unique) baba yaga and wendigo for two examples to teach them skills like monster crafting and hunger control for the two examples given. And to uphold his end of the bargain he would apply a reward clause, upon signing (normal for ghosts), upon task completion (summoned or taught) and at regular intervals (for anything that needs feeding or controlling normally but otherwise all have some variant of this clause). he wouldn't make himself a fool in front of creatures like fey but not greedy or selfish in front of more bestial creatures. he made a point of treating all contracts equally, However his contracts also work on humans too, if he doesn't include a punishment clause (remove money, physical harm, etc.) you cannot break the contracts, but he is a man of morality, so he would prefer to not remove free will from people and would rather allow them the ability to screw themselves over, he is smart so if you find a loophole in his contracts you have a major miracle on your hands, but he also is smart enough to make it seem like there is a loophole when there is not, for this trickster persona he has gained the nickname "cheshire" or "smiling black cat". the name i went with for this character is Allister Cardinal, referencing allister crowley, cardinal the bird as his family has links to bird as well as cardinal sin. his codename is 'inkwell'.
I know that I've mentioned earlier about the game Cuphead where the Cup Brothers had to fight obtain the Soul Contracts of the Debtors so that the Devil wouldn't take their souls. What is REALLY ironic is that one of the Debtors is actually a genie name Djimmi who had to give the Devil HIS soul from a contract HE signed. Djimmi even mocked the Cup Brothers for even working with the Devil since it's very clear that the Devil is using the them as his own personal puppets, which shows that Djimmi speaks from experience since he's a genie and all. The only 2 Debtors in the game that are humans are Captain Brineybeard (a pirate captain with a living ship) and Sally Stageplay (an actress) which means that the rest of the Debtors aren't even human or alive for that matter when it comes to these Soul Contracts.
You forgot Dr Kahl
@@randoncourter4923 Yeah, but he wrote down "Dr. Khal's Robot" so he doesn't end up having to owe the Devil his soul at all but his robot ends up having to owe his soul instead. Besides, scientists aren't really known for "taking peoples souls" or creating contracts the same way that genies do.
HOLY SHIT I JUST FINISHED PACT! Guys it’s such a good series read it please. Worm by the same author is also great. 10/10.
You should do a video about emotion as a magic system
If youve never made a video about it, can you do one about universal travel(and how concepts may change acordingly to the new universe)
I think its a verry interesting subject and knowing you, you will be able to explain it better then i ever will.❤