What is A Model AR Ford? The problematic nickname for early Model A's. 1928
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- Опубліковано 16 лип 2024
- Have you ever heard the term "AR" applied to a Model A Ford? What does it mean? Why do people use it? Is there a better way to describe early production cars?
The term doesn't come from 1927 but rather from the 1960's. Watch the video and see the history of a nickname.
And for the record, we do not care what you call these cars so don't @ us.
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Sources;
Ford Parts Price Lists Oct 1928
Ford Parts Price Lists Dec 1932
Model A Restoration Guidelines and Judging Standards (buy it here; model-a-ford.org/product/mode...)
Library of Congress Ford Motion Pictures Archives
Benson Ford Archives
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#1928 #1929 #1930 #1931 #fordmodela #modelaford - Авто та транспорт
I've been a Ford fan my whole life and I've never heard of this term. Learned something new!
You and I both. But then again I didnt have the internet as a kid to research. They are lucky today.
As a young lad In the mid sixties I worked in a Ford dealership’s parts dept, and to this day I can look at a Ford part No. and know what vehicle and year it was originally designed for.
I'm guessing the "R" equated to "Revision". When only one version is available that is A-7222. Once a second version is available the original is A-7222-AR and the revised part is A-7222-B. When a third comes available then the first is still A-7222-AR, the second becomes A-7222-BR and the last one is A-7222-C.
Always fascinating to dig into Ford's part numbers. In later years the first two characters are the model year the part was introduced - D0 is 1970. E7 is 1987. 3rd and 4th tell you the product and area, so E7TE is 1987 Truck/Engine. Then you have the part number followed by a revision code. They did switch this up around 99/00 but it's still more or less the same.
I was born in 1943 and my father had a 39 Ford dump truck. After I learned to read I would open the parts and service manual that came with the truck and I’m thinking it may have been at best 3/16 of an inch thick.
As a young person I would study that book constantly so I knew where all of the parts went because there were exploded views. And in 1962 I went to work for a Chevrolet dealer and ended up in the parts department. Although there was a huge difference between a 39 Ford truck and a 62 Chevrolet it is quite amazing for the differential for example on how similar they were. What confused me as a child was and I’m just using an example here, all of the differential parts carried the first numbers and letters such as
B9AZ, How could every part have the same number? As it turns out those letters and numbers represented the differential and depending on the year and when it was made the dealer could tell what part you needed with the right information. Chevrolet had a different system, for example if you wanted to camshaft they had a system called a group number 0.519 and every cam shaft was listed after that by number. Just trivia but Ford change their system originally used with the model A. I’ve not touched a Chevrolet part since 1969 but I still remember part numbers.
It's funny. Because ford and International have been in cahoots for years. Recently, International has been selling badge engineered Chevy's. You call Chevy, they say call International. Call International, they say call Chevy. If you find a parts tag, and the last two characters are a C1 or C2 designation, then it's a International part number ( sometimes crosses over to Ford ). But if it's a 8 digit part number that starts out "looking like a GM number", call Chevy. Go figure.
It is 50 years since I worked mainstream parts but I still remember popular Holden part numbers. Parts that were very fast moving in the day and unavailable now. Lenses, mudflaps, lhd clutch slave cyliner mounts [used in gearbox conversions that i Have not done in 40 years!
I sell new and used parts and get the clowns restoring cars wanting such and such part number,, numbers often superseded when the models were current. And ofcourse often updated as time went on as one part became suited to several models [and even makes]. Very annoying as they do not believe you.
Or they want date codes!! Wanting 1969 date codes on rims still made on 2022 and wet their nappys if not.. They must go to car show and take the tyres off!!
I have worked in the automotive industry since late 69
@@VitoVeccia Daewoos, recycled Vauxhall /Opels made in Korea. You would get Vauxhall bagged/ boxed parts from your Daepoo dealer. This in Australia.
There is ofcourse no end of 'generic' parts that go through decades of service. Sometimes in opposing brands
Hmmm I had never heard of the separate designation "AR"
Thank you for teaching me something new. It simply amazes me how fast Ford got to million(s) of cars produced back then.
Have fun take care
Thanks for this explanation video. We own an early 1928 Model A Sport Coupe. He's never told me the differences of what set that car apart from his other 28 A, and the Sport Coupe has never been road worthy in my lifetime. I am not sure if it is a very early or an early one but my father and grandfather always referred to it as an "AR."
Thanks for watching! Like we said, there is nothing wrong with using the term AR to describe an A...it'll just mean different things to different people.
I was just on an old farm and saw a transmission like that. I didn't even notice the brake lever. Also a set of those bumpers.
I like the terms "very early 28" and "early 28". Which would be determined by the VIN. It just seems more accurate.
Except that they didn`t have actual vin. They used eng numbers and most cars after all this time have had the engines swapped.
Ahh! VIN. Yes. On a Model A that’s right between the ABS computer and the catalytic converter, right?
@@williamosterheim1695 Maybe you can help me. I've been searching the internet for a day or two trying to find information on my dad's 1930 Model A vin number. I'm told it is supposed to be the number stamped on the engine between the stars. That number is different that the vin number on an old registration card my mom still has. I assume the number on the old card came from the original title that we cannot find right now. Is there a number that matches the number on the title / old registration elsewhere on the car so that she can apply for a lost title? Thanks for any reply.
Very interesting. I did not know that early production units had many parts variations. Somehow I attributed more pre-production engineering having worked out every detail. Thank you.
Good info. To anyone interested in getting the right parts on the right car, you are looking up the original part used on the date punched into the firewall/gas tank for everything from the horn, generator, carb, brake lever, etc. Most of this information isn't hard to come by for the most common and noticeable parts. I don't recall ever seeing a car with open ended bumpers, though, so that's a pretty cool one.
Thanks for the discussion. If I ever buy a Model A and hear the term AR, I will ask what they mean.
Funny how hobbies have jargon and sub-cultures. My '28 was sold to me as an "AR" due to E brake on the driver frame rail, Powerhouse, multidisc clutch, red steering wheel, etc. I had to ask the seller what it even meant, so it obviously wasn't a selling point. Armed with this newly acquired Model "A" knowledge to go with my first car, I felt I was running with the big boys. I was quickly disabused of the wisdom of using the term and no longer do as it's a "trigger" word in the hobby. I thought only very young and sheltered people have "trigger" words. Not so! We seasoned hobbyists do too I quickly found out.
I thoroughly enjoyed this video. Well explained!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Most of the Model A'ers I've been around consider any Model A with the left hand emergency brake to be "an AR" car/truck. But I agree that the term is not universally defined.
Ah, so this is what the fella told me to look for, I was doing generator service at a farm and spotted an A in the barn and chatted the gentleman up for a bit.
It was all original and ran.
That floor-mounted lever for engaging the brakes while parked is, surprisingly, not called an “emergency brake” but in fact, it’s called a “parking brake.”
Thanks for taking the time to comment. Ford referred to the floor mounted lever and all of its associated parts as the Emergency Brake. You can see it referred to as that in the original Instruction Manual as well as the Parts Indexes.
Ford have always referred to the handbrake as parking brake.
Its a parking brake and an emergency brake… who cares what ford calls it….
Very interesting. Having a rare car in a field of 4 million is kinda cool. Mine is not but I still love it.
It's special to you and that's what matters. Thanks for watching!
Very interesting! Thanks!
Surprisingly, when I worked in Ford parts starting in the nineties, I had a construction firm call me with an "A" part number they wanted twenty of, and yes, it was still available. Evidently, it had been used by a company that made some kind of crane, and I'm guessing there was enough demand to keep making them.
Wierd stuff, Halibrand quick change diffs use Ford ring and pins. Sprintcar steering boxes use LHD Saginaw parts,
You can still buy most of a 50’s Peugeot 403 motor brand new, because they used the same components in Hyundai forklifts and other heavy machinery even today!
I grew up on Ford vehicles from my childhood from my parents and in my adulthood,too. Mostly my vehicles are from Ford. Even my 2011 Mercury Milan had Ford stickers inside the hood. My 1st cat was a 1998 Ford Contour SE that I got in mid October almost 23 years ago. My 2nd car was a 2005 Ford Focus, 3rd was the Milan, 4th was a 2015 Ford Escape SE in silver grey,and my current is a 2020 Ford Escape SE in black. I remembered when I was little climbing into these classic cars from the 1930’s with my grandfather and sister. It was close to my grandfather’s house as I remembered. The place burned down to the ground. Every time that I see a classic Ford car that I just think of that. Even how they looked like a buggy w/o a horse pulling it. I preferred modern vehicles with today technology in it. That is what I liked. I know cars changes over the years.
You’ve bought pure garbage.
Every 5 years.
For a quarter century.
Do.
Better.
I don't care if is an AR I just love the model A. Thank.
Interesting points made here. As a former Model A owner, I usually regarded a left hand emergency brake handle as an AR. Now, that after watching this video, I guess I can use the placement of the E brake handle to signify an “earlier” production vehicle on quick glance. Btw, who owns the 189 car? I’d be interested to know if there are even lower #’s out there.
A189 is the lowest engine out there that's publicly known; however, the car it's attached to was assembled later than at least one other verified car (A616). It was sold in 2013 and I don't think the buyer is known to the Model A internet at large.
I have read that the earliest Model A's had no emergency brake. So , if you have one that's difficult to park on inclines it may be one of these. Or it may be just one of many that just no longer have one. Also mentioned, many early A's had a multiple disc clutch. If you have an A that's hard to shift into 1st & reverse it may have a multiple disc clutch. They had more drag than the single discs.
Thank you, this finally makes sense (love the model A Ford) one of the best cars ever built
Glad you liked it!
Over 20 million A’s produced. Now 50,000- 200,000 is a big model run.
I had no idea that Ford A had a left side hand break. For me the name AR dose not say anything special. Just as the Gorky plant had there first cars made partially with Ford parts. So did also thus parts fall obsolete once they discovered some parts needed huge upgrading. So the vehicle would not fall apart on none existent dirt roads. The first GAZ AA and the last one where also very different but no one has ever debated which of them is more valuable? Probably cause there are less of them in the world now then Ford T and As.
@@Jack_Russell_Brown Yup it dose referee to the plant in the USSR. It is present even today but the town name Gorki was replaced with Nizhny Novgorod. That is the old and correct name for the town before the 1917 revolution. The plant first started building the soviet versions of the Ford A. Called GAZ A. The GAZ A went to modifications later to improve its resistance to the none existing roads of the time. I suspect the fist GAZ A had more things incommon with the Ford model A.
@@Jack_Russell_Brown Glad it has been a help. There is still a lot of mystery surrounding the building and funding of the Gorky plant. Ford did agree with it but the terms of it remain unclear to this day. Official records show they managed to make aroud 450-500000 GAZ A cars before WW 2 began. Survived have less then 20. Most of them got scrapped or destroyed after the war. Cause people saw almost no value in them.
Interesting. I hadn't heard the term before. BTW, when you said production "through 1932", did you mean up to 1932? I thought production of the Model A ended sometime in 1931. I have a '31 pickup that I'm told was pretty well towards the end being built in May of '31... The fun fact is that it has been in my family since 1941.
Production of regular models, like coupes, continued briefly into '32 at overseas and Canadian factories. I think some of the unusual bodies, like certain commercial types, were still being assembled in '32.
The Model A continued to be built in the US and Abroad into 1932 and some foreign assembly plants even built Model A's into 1934! AA trucks were also built into 1932 some as late as May and June. Is your pickup a narrow or wide bed?
@@AModelA Thanks for the info! I'm told mine is a wide bed.
Damn, I didn't know that, thanks.
If an early red steering wheel got wet the red color would come off on your hands, or so I was taught back in the 50's. Hence, AR meant, "aw rats".
How about AM? I have a 71 Galaxie, and the troublesome r/h exhaust manifold ends in that. It means Australian Modified. There is many other parts with that ending, exclusive to RHD aussie delivered cars. And most of our imports came from Canada, and Canada cars are sometimes quite different to the US models. The steering box is Saginaw,, a Chev item and leaves a lot to be desired.
I dont know about other US cars exported to other RHD markets.
GM have different parts numbers for the same item,, an American gearbox mount uses a different part number to an Aussie one. But is the same part
I always wondered why they didn't just do away with that right hand drive stuff, then everybody could just build/engineer their cars one way, much simpler..but then again, I do appreciate that U.K./Commonwealth countries are willing to do things their way and not care what everyone else thinks...I think of it much like our(the U.S.) sticking to our own measurement system, and not converting to the Metric system just because that's what "everyone else" is doing....
What's wrong with "AR" as a description for early production models?
If it's too ambiguous, identify specific changes sequentially from the first produciton car going forward and;
call them AR1, AR2, AR3, etc.
I feel like I would be able to actually make it up a hill in one of these if I swapped it to like a harbor freight engine don't get me wrong I like the model A but it's a little bit too early for my tastes I mean I wouldn't even be able to take it on a parade there's just too many hills around here that are really steep and it won't make it up the hills I can't tell you how many times I've been at a classic car show and somebody has a model A and they are stuck at the bottom of a hill there's no such thing as flat ground here it's all hills like it or not I've also seen it where there's people taking them out for spin around town and they'll have to get out and have the passengers push while they're flooring it to make it up a hill most of them just simply don't have the horsepower and that's why they weren't very popular around here except on the shoreline where it's already level but if you go even 20 minutes inland it's nothing but hills hills and rivers and valleys the whole way that's why loco mobile was more popular here not only just because they were made here but because at the time they could actually get around some of these hills
So it doesnt mean the model A came with an assault rifle from the factory? Disappointing lol
Good clarification of origin of the ar.
I means A-Race as mod'd early ones that got raced 😁
People today:
"My car is a Honda GTX 762 with emergency break on the roof and 4wd"
"My car is a Mitsubishi SS 497 with a rotary engine, 8 speed automatic gearbox and a pop up spoiler"
People in the 1920s:
"What model is your car?"
"Red"
So it sounds like the R means to Retain the part? One was marked BR when the current number went to a C.
Some people say retain, others replaced, still others say reserve.
@@AModelA "Retrofit?"
Wouldn't "A" being first version, and "B" being a second version make "ARevised" or "AR" I first dealt with Ford's Prefix/Body/Suffix Part numbers with Agriculture in the 80's. I now deal with Ford's Part System in Vehicles. Like the Vid said the "Body" or basic Area number remains the same 7222 in the Gear Shift case. Now Suffix and Prefix describe Where and When built.
So nothing more than a part catalog system, my dad and I restored several 29-31s in the early 90s and never heard this ar thing
sounds like R in a part no stands for Retired or replaced
Interesting
Thanks for watching!
Does the “R” designation simply refer to “Revised”. AR or BR. To C. Logical realy
There are a lot of theories; replaced, revised, rescinded, but nothing official from Ford that we could find.
I own an AR Tudor body and chassis
Very Good!... 40 🐄🦉🏴☠✝
Everybody wants their car to be special. To me AR just means Artificially Respectability.
..this is much like the "64 1/2 Mustangs" to me...sorry, but there were NO '64 Mustangs, 1/2 or not..Ford sold them ALL as '65's..there are early "features", like these on these Model A's, early '65 Mustangs, VERY early ones...and later ones, with different features that were gradually changed as production marched on...to make matters worse, some states back then were still titling cars the year they were SOLD, not the actual model year..this generally accounts for the Mustangs that are titled as "64's"..I do wonder if there were any Model A's titled as '27's?..my dad once had a '50 DeSoto that was titled as a '49..but it was clearly a '50 year model..it had been sold in '49, and titled as such...
My Model A has a 327 Rambler engine so it must be an AR!
It's SIMPLE..."R" means replacement. nothing more, ITs a part suffix as indicated that was replaced. It should NOT be used at all to identify a vehicle. IT is VE28 or E28
Generally it means revised.
very early- early- mid- late '28
2:00 You mean built through 1931.
, Not through 32.
Model A's were built into 1932 and there are even foreign assembly plants that built Model A's later than that. The Chile Ford plant was still building Model A Phaetons in 1934.
Sounds like it was made up to me a model A or T is a Model A or T to me
Model A Replacement part, no replacement model A.
Great Cars R = revision
O like that motor is out of a vette
don't quiz me the next day. I don't care at all, actually, it's just trivia
the model a was ford's first real car.
People making stuff up to make their stuff seem desirable.
WHICH EVER WAY YOU LOOK AT IT ...JUST CALL IT FUN
Exactly
Neetoo
That cannot be true. Why would a manufacturer change parts with a better working unit? What is next 40 horsepower Model A's? Improving for the sake of making better and cheaper is lost on people today.
..yes..make it more complicated, and make it more expensive..but we've got the government to thank for that, at least in part...
@@dyer2cycle A great short new story on UA-cam that explains "Planned Obsolescence" and how it was started in the 1930s by light bulb companies that made the bulbs that could last forever. ( A firehouse in the US has a bulb that has not been turned off since 1900 and its still going strong today) Strong fines were given to light companies if their bulbs lasted to long. You should never build a better mousetrap, if your customer is a mouse. Search this is why we cannot have nice things. Its pretty good.
LOL. Telling a Model A person that a car is an AR model will tell them you don't know what you are talking about.