To anyone wanting the PDF of the homebrew, here's a link! Thanks again, Deo! drive.google.com/file/d/1_KKV3_5Mte48fqXa7faRFFaHt7YUeEnD/view?usp=sharing
See, you say how this would ruin a GM's day, but as a GM, it gives... ideas. Wanted some "henchmen" grade villains for some BBEGs based on the Evil Genius games. Looks like I have Red Ivan now.
Thoughts: Crafting Bombs costs spell slots. Maybe 2 bombs per spell level. So the 3rd level Grenadier could spend all three 1st level slots to craft six grenades. The15th level could fast craft five bombs as a bonus action, but it would take a total of 3 levels of slots with the sixth bomb being lost. Rebounder: Bomb, does d12 bludgeoning and Str save or drop anything held. But doesn't have a space/splash effect. Porcupine Roll: Splash only, does 1d8 piecing to a 10 foot sphere. Dex save for no damage. Gets two bombs at level 3, 1 more each at 5, 9, and 15. But can also change out one bomb type at each level up (like spells).
@@strafe_2391 Because Pathfinder is built on 3.5E which is a different scale than 5E. Your average 10th level 3.5E or Pathfinder character is about as strong as an optimized 5E 20th level character. You'd have to rework the alchemist, toning it down to 5E levels of power.
If the explosives are created by magic, having them disappear after a day makes sense enough. If they're created by components, then perhaps having them degrade over time is a viable solution, with it being possible to recover some of the components with an attempt to disassemble them for parts.
I am for sure going to try and get into a game using this, i love artificers and this seems like such a fun thing, i like how its literally just focused on and throwing bombs, no extra stuff involved like in other grenadier homebrew classes(of which there are many). hyped to see your new take on the firebomb build when it comes out
Nice to see some balancing of these. I'm not that advanced as a player, but hearing some of the effects on the bombs, and the strength of the abilities I had do really agree that they needed some toning down. Some of the abilities could also use the "a number equal to your proficiency bonus per long rest" limiter to make them stronger, and scale as the game, and levels, advances while still limiting the abilities from being too overpowered.
As an expert in Homebrew D&D, more specifically balancing content to keep it in line with 5E rules; there’s a lot about this that needs fixed. I’m definitely going to adjust it myself and probably make a post about it on Discord for those who are interested.
Oh my lorrrrd. Welp guess it's just a matter of time until we see "Can you beat DnD 5e campaign with only firebombs" Hey actually the more I think about that the funnier it gets, a DnD stream of multiple game challenge running youtubers each playing as a challenge run gimmick they do frequently or found most interesting. Can you beat : - "with only a broken straight sword (or, with a wii-remote custom weapon!)" - "without accepting a level up" - "firebombs/molotovs only" - "without meeting a weapon's requirements" - "instructing only one soldier from the backline" Etc Probably would be hell to actually attempt but the titles and concepts are endlessly entertaining to me
Some balance ideas if you want to dm this, these already include Lemon's ideas unless written otherwise: "Level 15 whenever an attack misses you, you can throw a bomb back at the enemy that attacked you." might be better. So you can not just throw a bomb at the ranged enemies when someone hits you with an axe or something lol For all bombs you should specify sizes as the effects would be a lot less for a large or bigger creature than for a small one lol Rift shifter: No knocked prone, not even low level spells do that, it's just overkill. Or change it to: Smaller than medium creatures are knocked prone. (imagine a dragon being knocked out from the sky with a smal bomb lol) Lightning in a bottle: After the first success the target is immune to this paralize for 10 mins or just stun as Lemon said. Snowball: Bigger than large sized creatures only lose 5 ft of movement instead of halving. (you might even stack this up to half movement speed, but that is too much hassle usually) Caustic vial: Makes the ground where it lands difficult terrain instead. Mind blower: is not gonna work as they will have to do 2 saves, one for the bomb and then one for getting damaged... fear would make more sense than charm. Also just imagine that you are in a tavern and shove the grenade in someone's face to charm them... Little ball of sunshine: No stun, instead blinds the enemy for one turn and/or what Lemon said.
Personally I prefer the idea of them crafting the bombs out of materials and not an ability that just vanishes after 24 hours. It makes the artificer feel more like an actual craftsman rather than a conjuration wizard. I would personally put a rule that higher grade materials would give greater effect, thus making the players interested in learning how to find and gather materials for their build. For example let's say a normal incendiary bomb uses gunpowder and oil (gunpowder for the initial explosion and oil for better burning coverage) but if you collect a firenewt gland for example you can create a number of bombs that deal 2d8 initial fire damage and then 1d6 every turn and so on.
It would be cool to have grenades that deal the regular weapon damage types, like a nail bomb for piercing, a bundle of razors and blades tightly packed for slashing and just a rock for bludgeoning, as well as some other uses of the grenades, like setting up traps, either as a subclass feature or just a base function of the grenades
Some thoughts on these: - I love the bombs as a concept, but why not make it Artificer Infusions? You can keep them being really powerful and have some be more powerful than others by the mere fact of locking them behind levels. - The way Artificer's subclass abilities work follow a certain pattern that maybe it would fit better if it was followed here: 3rd Level you get your baseline class ability (here would be making bombs, probably following the Experimental Elixer of the Alchemist in you being able to create a limited number per short rest plus spending spellslots to create more) and a tool proficiency (leatherworking tools? herbalist tools? alchemist tools?). 5th level you get a damage boost (here it would probably work as it is, being able to throw more bombs). 9th level, you get a cool thing that makes your baseline ability better (how about rocket jump?). 15th level is a lot more free form, from damage resistance to better teamwork abilities and just amazing crowd control (this one can really be anything, so the one Lemon proposed works just fine)
argument for why 15 x artificer level makes sense. They use material components and an action economy. The amount you "Can" make is irrelevant when you will often run into walls of cost and materials that limit how many you could make.
For little ball of sunshine swap the effect to Blinded. For the number learned just use the eldritch blast template "The spell creates more than one beam when you reach higher levels: two beams at 5th Level, three beams at 11th level, and four beams at 17th level." just swap beam for grenade type.
i finished a revised Monster Slayer subclass for Ranger a while back, with a mechanic of creating alchemical substances used to take advantage of a creature's damage type vulnerabilities alongside the "you know creature damage type vulnerabilities" feature. but now i'm thinking... the grenadier's way is to take advantage of a creature's damage type vulnerabilities by choosing the appropriate grenades for a fight... maybe i should make it so they can turn their alchemical substances into alchemical bombs >:)
You could lower types of bombs to some mix from Elden Ring With DS but little lower to mere people so Piercing damage from pots(realistic) fire cause explosive itself, usual fire-explosie bomb, some mud or dirt or some poison of sort Low damage to be realistic or made classs mix suportive agressive
I think it'd be appropriate to separate out special and more generic grenades and make it easy to spam tons of normal grenades without status's, but limit the powerful ones with status effects (perhaps only able to throw one per turn and the rest have to be normal grenades), since the status effects could be very powerful but the damage output would not be very good. And 'guy who throws explosives everywhere' feels like it should have good damage output.
Look not to be that guy, but since you mentioned the alchemist from pathfinder, in pathfinder 2e the BOMBER is a real subclass of the alchemist. Let me tell you from experience they are good, one of my first players played a goblin BOMBER and oh boy did he get damage. You could probably legit do a thrown weapons only run in a campaign with them.
correct.... except for college of glamour bard subclass, which has an ability that you can use for a full minute to cast command without having to know the spell or use spell slots... people charmed by you automatically fail the save with the subclass
hmmm mass charm effects being a problem for the DM.... So what i am hearing is if somehow i managed to sneak into a game run by lemon... not to play my favorite bard college, to save headache
Honestly I feel like getting 2 bombs a turn at the cost of both your actions, and a 3rd attack that can only be made as a reaction (which can be ignored pretty easily in my experience) is honestly a little too weak, speaking as a full time DM. Pretty much every bomb is 1d10 damage plus a save, which is kinda pitiful when half the saves don’t do anything, though the other half are disgusting so, yeah it could use work, though I don’t think getting to do 2d10 a turn consistently is that big a deal when your fighter is making 3 attacks for what’s likely 3d10, d12, or 6d6, or your wizards fire bolt is 3d10 a shot on its own just with cantrips.
This seems like fun with quite a few tweaks. But first, remember, the goal isn't to ruin your DM. If your DM is so bad that you want to ruin their game JUST LEAVE! No DnD is better than bad DnD. If your goal is to just ruin their day or campaign that they spend tons of time on, you're probably "That Fucking Guy" and expect to show up on r/dndhorrorstories or whatever. Not only would you ruin the campaign for the DM but for every other player too. That aside, let's get into it: 1. This needs to specify that "only you have proficiency with them" otherwise nothing is stopping you from handing them out to the party, which may or may not be intentional. If they are intended to be shared, cool! If not, specify that. I think bombs should also be maybe like, 4 x proficiency plus intelligence modifier. This both limits how many you have meaning they should be a tactical optio, but with enough to use them without feeling bad. This means a maximum of 12 at level 1, but doesn't grow too quickly as you level (going up to 13 at level 4 if you choose an ASI, and a max of 17 at level 5, with a maximum of 29 at level 20 barring anything that raises your INT above 20). However, spellslots as Nick DaJager suggested are also a decent option, if more limited initially I believe (especially since it restricts you from casting spells). This part honestly requires some playtesting to figure out a happy medium. Maybe a number equal to your artificer level + int mod for free after each long rest, with the ability to expend spell slots to make more over the course of a few minutes or something to make crafting them a non-combat option initially. Also, I am kind of against picking which X of these you can craft. All that does is make sure you pick the best ones, and leave the worst ones for later. Instead, allowing players full access to the bombs means you they can prepare one or two of the worse ones as a "just in case" (or more if they know they'll want say, several acid ones to bypass doors) and flexibility in preparation is always great. 2. 5th level is a bad feature. Proficiency with thrown weapons is almost meaningless. Do you know how many weapons this gives? Two. Artificer is already proficient with all simple weapons (including thrown simple weapons like darts). This just gives nets and tridents, neither of which are particularly good. Javelins are better than tridents for throwing, and nets only offer maybe one round of the restrained condition. On top of that, the other half of the feature is a level 3 feature for monk and isn't very good there either. Instead, I'd suggest a simple "extra attack" and the ability to draw one as part of an attack for free, and they count as magical attacks for the purpose of overcoming resistances. Yes, I know they're called "occult explosives" but RAW, they're just normal weapons, no different than a shortsword when it comes to hitting creatures like werewolves or ghosts. This means as a half-caster with a martial focus, they get to keep up with other martial or half-casters at least somewhat, and adding a bonus action attack at 9th is fine. Finally, make them scale as +1/+2/+3 at the appropriate levels as part of this feature. (i.e. +1 at level 5, +2 at level 11, +3 at level 15 roughly) Finally, I'd also say you get resistance to all self damage or saving throws caused by hitting yourself with your own bombs. 3. The level 9 feature is mostly pointless, and kind of weak. The bonus action attack is nice and good, but when a creature leaves melee range with you, you can already attack them with these bombs. Instead, make so when they enter ~10-15 feet you can make a single opportunity attack against them, this sort of replicates the polearm master feat honestly, and that's... at least ok, if kind of weak, and you'd probably be best giving each bomb some special addition to them, or maybe doubling their range. a 5ft range is pretty weak, and 10ft is at least more likely to catch multiple enemies. In fact, just give all bombs a 10ft radius at this level regardless of whether or not they had one before. If they had 10ft before, double it. We're already well past the level where fireball has started to fall off (yes, fireball falls off, ask anyone in the optimization community...) so giving them an AoE should be fine. 4. Level 15, this is ok I guess? It kind of overlaps with level 9, and I'm not a fan of that. This is when the bombs should get nuts, but if we want to keep it simple the solution is also simple. All saving throws caused by your bombs against enemies are made with disadvantage, and your attacks with them overcome all resistance. Now they're far more reliable and continue to be a threat as more creatures show up with various resistances to damage types, especially since one is acid damage, a terrible damage type. (They should NOT ignore immunities though imo) 5. This subclass should really get some useful infusions. Like, maybe at level 5 they could choose to take an infusion that gives them advantage or removes the penalty for throwing beyond 20ft, or new and different types of grenades (i.e. the ability to dash and throw one grenade a limited number times like rope bombs), or something that lets you remotely detonate them like traps. You know, get creative with it! Infusions are a great way to express more flavor in a class while also giving some kind of mechanic to make it happen. 6. The actual bombs: Incindiary Bomb: Specify a duration for both the fire and the blaze. I would not allow it spread just for simplicity's sake (spare your dm the hassle!), but instead set fire to flammable objects not being worn in the range of the bomb (including creatures) for say, 1 minute or until a creature uses an action to extinguish a blaze in an adjacent square, or uses an action and passes a dex save to put themselves out. Rift Shifter: As it's force damage, I'd remove the movement effect and bump it to 1d12 honestly. Force damage is already very powerful. This is what you would take if you wanted solid, reliable damage. The sunshine grenade can also fill this roll, but should be weaker due to the extra effect it has. Lightning in a bottle: This is far too strong. Does the designer know what paralysis does? It incapacitates the creature, they auto fail strength and dex saves, all attacks have advantage, and any attack within 5ft deals a critical hit! There is no reason to prepare ANYTHING but this bomb, it's that strong. This actually breaks the game. instead, make it prevent the creature from taking reactions and it'll be fine. Snowball: This is fine, but we need to figure out what the freezing solid does mechanically. I'd say if it freezes a creature in water, they should instead have their movement speed reduced to zero until they pass a strength saving throw to free themselves at the end of their turn (no action required), in addition to the ice becoming difficult terrain, the difficult terrain lasting only one round and is a 5ft radius (so it covers a decent area, but isn't overly restrictive especially for the rest of your party). Caustic Vial: This is fine I guess? I would also add a rider about being able to use it to destroy objects or create holes in walls based on the material. I don't have a full list of material, but you should be able to like, destroy wooden doors or locks or whatever the DM feels is appropriate based on your level. Tox Box: RAW, this spreads forever. Just make it a 10ft radius where all plants/etc wither once. Honestly, it's hard to save a poison or acid grenade as damage tools because both damage types are just so bad, so I'd prefer to rework this. Instead of toxic fumes, make it a smoke bomb! Give it an optional mode where it casts fog cloud that lasts for say... 2-3 rounds and doesn't require concentration, and add some flavor where tiny animals attempt to leave the smoke cloud as fast as possible and rename it like... "the fumigator" or something. Utility is what saved caustic vial, so it'd be what would save this grenade. Booming Ball: This is kind of weak, I'd say move the extra effect from rift shifter here so it can knock enemies prone or move them away by 5ft, in addition to the deafened condition (a kinda worthless condition in most cases) Necro-Grenade: I'd add a rider that also prevents creatures from healing when damaged by this grenade in some form, unless they're undead, and remove the escaping souls bit. If you have a +4 or +5 to intelligence, it's better to purposefully miss than hit a target as the averaged damage (2.5 souls times 4 or 5) is better than the average of a d10 + modifer usually (d10 + mod is 9.5 or 10.5, 2.5 souls is 10 damage or 12.5 damage) especially since it has no variance. Mind Blower: Not bad, charmed simply means they don't view you as an enemy unless you attack them again, maybe make it last for say, 5 rounds or something (30 seconds) Little Ball of Sunshine: Same issue with Lightning. Stun is too strong (main difference is the lack of crits). Make it a dex save or be blinded for one round on the first time it's hit by one of these each turn, and drop the damage to 1d8. This turns it into a utility grenade with extra damage where you PROBABLY still want to throw one every turn. Welcome to the optimization community :P It's not just about making something as powerful as possible, it's also about making a concept that's fun and balanced too. Some of these options are just straight up too strong, and some were just too weak. The biggest issue would be figuring out how much this affects other players considering they can be caught in these effects too. Also, stunned creatures cannot fight back, they're incapacitated which means no reactions or actions.
I think you're wildly overestimating this class. It's really.. not good? The lightning jar might be too good, but otherwise.. none of these bombs scale, and you max out at 2 bombs a turn plus an AoO bomb, including your bonus action. Max damage with bombs is what, 2d10 + 2d6 without the AoO? Including the fact you basically need to be in melee range, or have an ally face tank for you. Compare all this to a warlock dumping into Eldritch Blast. 5th level, 300 range, 2d10+10, on a cantrip. Or a fighter in melee range gets 2d6+5 x2, probably rerolling 1s and 2s. Foregoing numbers like that for a pseudo-cantrip chromatic sphere (with basically infinite bombs) that maxes out at level 5 and goes no further, with an added save ability really feels perfectly balanced. It's not a huge damage dealer, but brings a decent amount of utility.
I need you to stop and consider that the peasant cannon exists, and since the original idea for the bombs doesn't make them vanish after time, you could hire an army and give them ALL grenades with very little prep time.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
To anyone wanting the PDF of the homebrew, here's a link! Thanks again, Deo!
drive.google.com/file/d/1_KKV3_5Mte48fqXa7faRFFaHt7YUeEnD/view?usp=sharing
See, you say how this would ruin a GM's day, but as a GM, it gives... ideas. Wanted some "henchmen" grade villains for some BBEGs based on the Evil Genius games. Looks like I have Red Ivan now.
Thoughts:
Crafting Bombs costs spell slots. Maybe 2 bombs per spell level. So the 3rd level Grenadier could spend all three 1st level slots to craft six grenades. The15th level could fast craft five bombs as a bonus action, but it would take a total of 3 levels of slots with the sixth bomb being lost.
Rebounder: Bomb, does d12 bludgeoning and Str save or drop anything held. But doesn't have a space/splash effect.
Porcupine Roll: Splash only, does 1d8 piecing to a 10 foot sphere. Dex save for no damage.
Gets two bombs at level 3, 1 more each at 5, 9, and 15. But can also change out one bomb type at each level up (like spells).
Why not just use the alchemist level chart from Pathfinder?
This is good.
@@strafe_2391 Because Pathfinder is built on 3.5E which is a different scale than 5E. Your average 10th level 3.5E or Pathfinder character is about as strong as an optimized 5E 20th level character. You'd have to rework the alchemist, toning it down to 5E levels of power.
I love this, the rebounder is just a rock though which makes it even better and funnier.
I see that Deo is both a gentleman, and a scholar.
If the explosives are created by magic, having them disappear after a day makes sense enough. If they're created by components, then perhaps having them degrade over time is a viable solution, with it being possible to recover some of the components with an attempt to disassemble them for parts.
I am for sure going to try and get into a game using this, i love artificers and this seems like such a fun thing, i like how its literally just focused on and throwing bombs, no extra stuff involved like in other grenadier homebrew classes(of which there are many). hyped to see your new take on the firebomb build when it comes out
Respect your critiques! Smart stuff
Nice to see some balancing of these. I'm not that advanced as a player, but hearing some of the effects on the bombs, and the strength of the abilities I had do really agree that they needed some toning down.
Some of the abilities could also use the "a number equal to your proficiency bonus per long rest" limiter to make them stronger, and scale as the game, and levels, advances while still limiting the abilities from being too overpowered.
As an expert in Homebrew D&D, more specifically balancing content to keep it in line with 5E rules; there’s a lot about this that needs fixed. I’m definitely going to adjust it myself and probably make a post about it on Discord for those who are interested.
Oh my lorrrrd. Welp guess it's just a matter of time until we see "Can you beat DnD 5e campaign with only firebombs"
Hey actually the more I think about that the funnier it gets, a DnD stream of multiple game challenge running youtubers each playing as a challenge run gimmick they do frequently or found most interesting. Can you beat :
- "with only a broken straight sword (or, with a wii-remote custom weapon!)"
- "without accepting a level up"
- "firebombs/molotovs only"
- "without meeting a weapon's requirements"
- "instructing only one soldier from the backline"
Etc
Probably would be hell to actually attempt but the titles and concepts are endlessly entertaining to me
You know the old saying: Where there's a Firebomb, there's a way.
i can’t look at this right now but I would suggest taking a look at alchemist from pathfinder! It’s primary damage dealer is firebombs!
My first dnd character :)
Some balance ideas if you want to dm this, these already include Lemon's ideas unless written otherwise:
"Level 15 whenever an attack misses you, you can throw a bomb back at the enemy that attacked you." might be better. So you can not just throw a bomb at the ranged enemies when someone hits you with an axe or something lol
For all bombs you should specify sizes as the effects would be a lot less for a large or bigger creature than for a small one lol
Rift shifter: No knocked prone, not even low level spells do that, it's just overkill. Or change it to: Smaller than medium creatures are knocked prone. (imagine a dragon being knocked out from the sky with a smal bomb lol)
Lightning in a bottle: After the first success the target is immune to this paralize for 10 mins or just stun as Lemon said.
Snowball: Bigger than large sized creatures only lose 5 ft of movement instead of halving. (you might even stack this up to half movement speed, but that is too much hassle usually)
Caustic vial: Makes the ground where it lands difficult terrain instead.
Mind blower: is not gonna work as they will have to do 2 saves, one for the bomb and then one for getting damaged... fear would make more sense than charm. Also just imagine that you are in a tavern and shove the grenade in someone's face to charm them...
Little ball of sunshine: No stun, instead blinds the enemy for one turn and/or what Lemon said.
A very reasonable critique. Good job.
I liked both of these D&D videos. Wouldn’t mind a few more.
Personally I prefer the idea of them crafting the bombs out of materials and not an ability that just vanishes after 24 hours.
It makes the artificer feel more like an actual craftsman rather than a conjuration wizard. I would personally put a rule that higher grade materials would give greater effect, thus making the players interested in learning how to find and gather materials for their build.
For example let's say a normal incendiary bomb uses gunpowder and oil (gunpowder for the initial explosion and oil for better burning coverage) but if you collect a firenewt gland for example you can create a number of bombs that deal 2d8 initial fire damage and then 1d6 every turn and so on.
I think this is a really cool class as a artificer main I really like this
It would be cool to have grenades that deal the regular weapon damage types, like a nail bomb for piercing, a bundle of razors and blades tightly packed for slashing and just a rock for bludgeoning, as well as some other uses of the grenades, like setting up traps, either as a subclass feature or just a base function of the grenades
Some thoughts on these:
- I love the bombs as a concept, but why not make it Artificer Infusions? You can keep them being really powerful and have some be more powerful than others by the mere fact of locking them behind levels.
- The way Artificer's subclass abilities work follow a certain pattern that maybe it would fit better if it was followed here: 3rd Level you get your baseline class ability (here would be making bombs, probably following the Experimental Elixer of the Alchemist in you being able to create a limited number per short rest plus spending spellslots to create more) and a tool proficiency (leatherworking tools? herbalist tools? alchemist tools?). 5th level you get a damage boost (here it would probably work as it is, being able to throw more bombs). 9th level, you get a cool thing that makes your baseline ability better (how about rocket jump?). 15th level is a lot more free form, from damage resistance to better teamwork abilities and just amazing crowd control (this one can really be anything, so the one Lemon proposed works just fine)
argument for why 15 x artificer level makes sense.
They use material components and an action economy. The amount you "Can" make is irrelevant when you will often run into walls of cost and materials that limit how many you could make.
For little ball of sunshine swap the effect to Blinded. For the number learned just use the eldritch blast template "The spell creates more than one beam when you reach higher levels: two beams at 5th Level, three beams at 11th level, and four beams at 17th level." just swap beam for grenade type.
i finished a revised Monster Slayer subclass for Ranger a while back, with a mechanic of creating alchemical substances used to take advantage of a creature's damage type vulnerabilities alongside the "you know creature damage type vulnerabilities" feature. but now i'm thinking...
the grenadier's way is to take advantage of a creature's damage type vulnerabilities by choosing the appropriate grenades for a fight... maybe i should make it so they can turn their alchemical substances into alchemical bombs >:)
Once again, a banger video! Also if what you suggested isn't implemented and someone actually uses this, they could make a nuke.
You could lower types of bombs to some mix from Elden Ring With DS but little lower to mere people so
Piercing damage from pots(realistic) fire cause explosive itself, usual fire-explosie bomb, some mud or dirt or some poison of sort
Low damage to be realistic or made classs mix suportive agressive
I think it'd be appropriate to separate out special and more generic grenades and make it easy to spam tons of normal grenades without status's, but limit the powerful ones with status effects (perhaps only able to throw one per turn and the rest have to be normal grenades), since the status effects could be very powerful but the damage output would not be very good. And 'guy who throws explosives everywhere' feels like it should have good damage output.
Oh wait we're allowed to send Backlogs D&D content? Time to collab with a certain Gamersweekend then.
Look not to be that guy, but since you mentioned the alchemist from pathfinder, in pathfinder 2e the BOMBER is a real subclass of the alchemist. Let me tell you from experience they are good, one of my first players played a goblin BOMBER and oh boy did he get damage. You could probably legit do a thrown weapons only run in a campaign with them.
Radiant bomb should blind, not turn undead. Would have a wider use case.
Reminder, charmed =/= controlled
correct.... except for college of glamour bard subclass, which has an ability that you can use for a full minute to cast command without having to know the spell or use spell slots... people charmed by you automatically fail the save with the subclass
Cool.
Is that... Monster Hunter music in the background?
love it
hmmm mass charm effects being a problem for the DM.... So what i am hearing is if somehow i managed to sneak into a game run by lemon... not to play my favorite bard college, to save headache
Honestly I feel like getting 2 bombs a turn at the cost of both your actions, and a 3rd attack that can only be made as a reaction (which can be ignored pretty easily in my experience) is honestly a little too weak, speaking as a full time DM. Pretty much every bomb is 1d10 damage plus a save, which is kinda pitiful when half the saves don’t do anything, though the other half are disgusting so, yeah it could use work, though I don’t think getting to do 2d10 a turn consistently is that big a deal when your fighter is making 3 attacks for what’s likely 3d10, d12, or 6d6, or your wizards fire bolt is 3d10 a shot on its own just with cantrips.
This seems like fun with quite a few tweaks. But first, remember, the goal isn't to ruin your DM. If your DM is so bad that you want to ruin their game JUST LEAVE! No DnD is better than bad DnD. If your goal is to just ruin their day or campaign that they spend tons of time on, you're probably "That Fucking Guy" and expect to show up on r/dndhorrorstories or whatever. Not only would you ruin the campaign for the DM but for every other player too. That aside, let's get into it:
1. This needs to specify that "only you have proficiency with them" otherwise nothing is stopping you from handing them out to the party, which may or may not be intentional. If they are intended to be shared, cool! If not, specify that. I think bombs should also be maybe like, 4 x proficiency plus intelligence modifier. This both limits how many you have meaning they should be a tactical optio, but with enough to use them without feeling bad. This means a maximum of 12 at level 1, but doesn't grow too quickly as you level (going up to 13 at level 4 if you choose an ASI, and a max of 17 at level 5, with a maximum of 29 at level 20 barring anything that raises your INT above 20). However, spellslots as Nick DaJager suggested are also a decent option, if more limited initially I believe (especially since it restricts you from casting spells). This part honestly requires some playtesting to figure out a happy medium. Maybe a number equal to your artificer level + int mod for free after each long rest, with the ability to expend spell slots to make more over the course of a few minutes or something to make crafting them a non-combat option initially.
Also, I am kind of against picking which X of these you can craft. All that does is make sure you pick the best ones, and leave the worst ones for later. Instead, allowing players full access to the bombs means you they can prepare one or two of the worse ones as a "just in case" (or more if they know they'll want say, several acid ones to bypass doors) and flexibility in preparation is always great.
2. 5th level is a bad feature. Proficiency with thrown weapons is almost meaningless. Do you know how many weapons this gives? Two. Artificer is already proficient with all simple weapons (including thrown simple weapons like darts). This just gives nets and tridents, neither of which are particularly good. Javelins are better than tridents for throwing, and nets only offer maybe one round of the restrained condition. On top of that, the other half of the feature is a level 3 feature for monk and isn't very good there either.
Instead, I'd suggest a simple "extra attack" and the ability to draw one as part of an attack for free, and they count as magical attacks for the purpose of overcoming resistances. Yes, I know they're called "occult explosives" but RAW, they're just normal weapons, no different than a shortsword when it comes to hitting creatures like werewolves or ghosts. This means as a half-caster with a martial focus, they get to keep up with other martial or half-casters at least somewhat, and adding a bonus action attack at 9th is fine. Finally, make them scale as +1/+2/+3 at the appropriate levels as part of this feature. (i.e. +1 at level 5, +2 at level 11, +3 at level 15 roughly) Finally, I'd also say you get resistance to all self damage or saving throws caused by hitting yourself with your own bombs.
3. The level 9 feature is mostly pointless, and kind of weak. The bonus action attack is nice and good, but when a creature leaves melee range with you, you can already attack them with these bombs. Instead, make so when they enter ~10-15 feet you can make a single opportunity attack against them, this sort of replicates the polearm master feat honestly, and that's... at least ok, if kind of weak, and you'd probably be best giving each bomb some special addition to them, or maybe doubling their range. a 5ft range is pretty weak, and 10ft is at least more likely to catch multiple enemies. In fact, just give all bombs a 10ft radius at this level regardless of whether or not they had one before. If they had 10ft before, double it. We're already well past the level where fireball has started to fall off (yes, fireball falls off, ask anyone in the optimization community...) so giving them an AoE should be fine.
4. Level 15, this is ok I guess? It kind of overlaps with level 9, and I'm not a fan of that. This is when the bombs should get nuts, but if we want to keep it simple the solution is also simple. All saving throws caused by your bombs against enemies are made with disadvantage, and your attacks with them overcome all resistance. Now they're far more reliable and continue to be a threat as more creatures show up with various resistances to damage types, especially since one is acid damage, a terrible damage type. (They should NOT ignore immunities though imo)
5. This subclass should really get some useful infusions. Like, maybe at level 5 they could choose to take an infusion that gives them advantage or removes the penalty for throwing beyond 20ft, or new and different types of grenades (i.e. the ability to dash and throw one grenade a limited number times like rope bombs), or something that lets you remotely detonate them like traps. You know, get creative with it! Infusions are a great way to express more flavor in a class while also giving some kind of mechanic to make it happen.
6. The actual bombs:
Incindiary Bomb: Specify a duration for both the fire and the blaze. I would not allow it spread just for simplicity's sake (spare your dm the hassle!), but instead set fire to flammable objects not being worn in the range of the bomb (including creatures) for say, 1 minute or until a creature uses an action to extinguish a blaze in an adjacent square, or uses an action and passes a dex save to put themselves out.
Rift Shifter: As it's force damage, I'd remove the movement effect and bump it to 1d12 honestly. Force damage is already very powerful. This is what you would take if you wanted solid, reliable damage. The sunshine grenade can also fill this roll, but should be weaker due to the extra effect it has.
Lightning in a bottle: This is far too strong. Does the designer know what paralysis does? It incapacitates the creature, they auto fail strength and dex saves, all attacks have advantage, and any attack within 5ft deals a critical hit! There is no reason to prepare ANYTHING but this bomb, it's that strong. This actually breaks the game. instead, make it prevent the creature from taking reactions and it'll be fine.
Snowball: This is fine, but we need to figure out what the freezing solid does mechanically. I'd say if it freezes a creature in water, they should instead have their movement speed reduced to zero until they pass a strength saving throw to free themselves at the end of their turn (no action required), in addition to the ice becoming difficult terrain, the difficult terrain lasting only one round and is a 5ft radius (so it covers a decent area, but isn't overly restrictive especially for the rest of your party).
Caustic Vial: This is fine I guess? I would also add a rider about being able to use it to destroy objects or create holes in walls based on the material. I don't have a full list of material, but you should be able to like, destroy wooden doors or locks or whatever the DM feels is appropriate based on your level.
Tox Box: RAW, this spreads forever. Just make it a 10ft radius where all plants/etc wither once. Honestly, it's hard to save a poison or acid grenade as damage tools because both damage types are just so bad, so I'd prefer to rework this. Instead of toxic fumes, make it a smoke bomb! Give it an optional mode where it casts fog cloud that lasts for say... 2-3 rounds and doesn't require concentration, and add some flavor where tiny animals attempt to leave the smoke cloud as fast as possible and rename it like... "the fumigator" or something. Utility is what saved caustic vial, so it'd be what would save this grenade.
Booming Ball: This is kind of weak, I'd say move the extra effect from rift shifter here so it can knock enemies prone or move them away by 5ft, in addition to the deafened condition (a kinda worthless condition in most cases)
Necro-Grenade: I'd add a rider that also prevents creatures from healing when damaged by this grenade in some form, unless they're undead, and remove the escaping souls bit. If you have a +4 or +5 to intelligence, it's better to purposefully miss than hit a target as the averaged damage (2.5 souls times 4 or 5) is better than the average of a d10 + modifer usually (d10 + mod is 9.5 or 10.5, 2.5 souls is 10 damage or 12.5 damage) especially since it has no variance.
Mind Blower: Not bad, charmed simply means they don't view you as an enemy unless you attack them again, maybe make it last for say, 5 rounds or something (30 seconds)
Little Ball of Sunshine: Same issue with Lightning. Stun is too strong (main difference is the lack of crits). Make it a dex save or be blinded for one round on the first time it's hit by one of these each turn, and drop the damage to 1d8. This turns it into a utility grenade with extra damage where you PROBABLY still want to throw one every turn.
Welcome to the optimization community :P It's not just about making something as powerful as possible, it's also about making a concept that's fun and balanced too. Some of these options are just straight up too strong, and some were just too weak. The biggest issue would be figuring out how much this affects other players considering they can be caught in these effects too.
Also, stunned creatures cannot fight back, they're incapacitated which means no reactions or actions.
I think you're wildly overestimating this class. It's really.. not good? The lightning jar might be too good, but otherwise.. none of these bombs scale, and you max out at 2 bombs a turn plus an AoO bomb, including your bonus action. Max damage with bombs is what, 2d10 + 2d6 without the AoO? Including the fact you basically need to be in melee range, or have an ally face tank for you. Compare all this to a warlock dumping into Eldritch Blast. 5th level, 300 range, 2d10+10, on a cantrip. Or a fighter in melee range gets 2d6+5 x2, probably rerolling 1s and 2s. Foregoing numbers like that for a pseudo-cantrip chromatic sphere (with basically infinite bombs) that maxes out at level 5 and goes no further, with an added save ability really feels perfectly balanced. It's not a huge damage dealer, but brings a decent amount of utility.
I need you to stop and consider that the peasant cannon exists, and since the original idea for the bombs doesn't make them vanish after time, you could hire an army and give them ALL grenades with very little prep time.