I really enjoy listening to my old Dynaco-ST70 tube amp when it's connected to those old cloth 14-gauge AC runs (in the wall) combined with 16 gauge zip cord speaker wire. It really enhances that tube ambience when I play those original jazz recordings from the 50's.
I have an older home (1947) and I "upgraded" and installed a new #10 AWG ROMEX home run (right next to the homes original #14 AWG BX outlet I was using). The difference is very noticeable - a wider sound stage and more depth. I was a bit shocked - as I still believe the world is flat.
@@joeythedime1838 I hope you're using cryogenically frozen dilithium crystals otherwise the transparency of your system will suffer. The optimal composition of atmospheric gasses is also crucial to hearing the finer micro details that would otherwise cloud your hearing but to get the ultimate in sound reproduction you need a sealed room with the air pressure equivalent to 2000m above sea level.
You no it makes me think, with all the negative talk around power cables and the talk about how it just can’t make any difference because measurements say that this is the case, then why is it that in my system a can clearly hear the sound difference, I have also tried over 20 different brands of power cables in my system, l am lucky to have been able to try this, I feel most people in this game haven’t had the chance to try because of the crazy costs of same of the power cables on the market. Everything in your system makes a difference better or worse it’s up to your ears.
GREAT BABELING ,PAUL AND I put in a dedicated 10 gauge home run,at the beginning of my journey to future proof my power needs and so I don’t know what difference it made sonically but I am happy 🤗 I did 👍💚💚💚
Yes I have separate runs to the breaker panel for each component using 10 gage copper romex. My electrical panel already had copper versus the cheaper panels for crap aluminum. People do not like touching in the walls so they buy all these power conditioners and tons of other do dads trying to regulate a crap input, clean it, and send it out. I did all new plugs and the 10 gage copper romex with new circuit breakers for about 2,000. Team of 2 electricians did about a day to do it (6 hours). Huge difference. Lots of ways to go about system design. Think about your budget and then think about which ones have the most impact and build your way up to other upgrades as budget and time allows. I did a demo of the Sonus Faber Aida 2's today. In person the craftsmanship of the Italians almost took my breathe away. Really stunning. The sound was awesome also.
@@Audiofreak71 I have no idea whats in his house other than what he stated here. What I am saying is the national electrical grid is comprised of substations constructed with aluminum conductors. Take a look at one. Aluminum does have higher resistance than copper but it can be compensated for as done by the utilities.
A few years back i got a length of #10 wire with very thick insulation on the individual conductors and the overall jacket along with some good quality ends. I built 2ea 3ft cords and replaced the power cords on my PS Audio M700's and it sounded a little better to me. They plug into a receptacle that has a home run to the panel that is about 8ft away, that's a 4 banger receptacle - two for the power amps and one for a DIY filtered hub (8 outlets) that feeds all the low power electronics. The filter is a huge old military grade corcam that's rated for 20amps, I specifically don't plug the power amps into it because i don't want the huge current slugs warping the inductors that are in the filter. I used to do alot of EMI testing on power supplies back when i had a real job and found one little realized problem was small wire size and dainty ferrite cores on some AC EMI chokes. Like Al Bundy I'm a fan of big-uns!
No, it is not. Back then there wasn't a company called Bugquest to sell (for up to 5K) a cream that kills the unseen, unfelt, unable to confirm their existence bugs.
@@sebastiantomita5956 You missed the point of the analogy. It excludes purchasing anything. To your point however, no audiophile would be wise to purchase replacement wires or cables at any price if they cannot subsequently hear and enjoy the difference that it brings to them when integrated with their audio system.
Most people can't do anything inside the wall. But you can upgrade the outlet. Connected to a power conditioner/regenerator with isolated banks. Will make a difference.
Interesting subject that raises a question in my mind: How does plugging the equipment into a PS Power Regenerator affect the results? Is the Regenerator subject to the same variables?
@@Wizardofgosz I am familiar with that video on Amir's channel. My invented power circuits generally speaking will and do measurably outperform any other power circuits I have ever measured. My power circuits do clearly improve the listening experience.
@@WizardofgoszI am PUBLICLY STATING that you are fully misinformed on the reality of what's possible per your comments and importantly what I have already done and can easily be proven PUBLICLY via a posted UA-cam comparative test. I welcome ANY PUBLIC POSTED CHALLENGES TO MY ASSERTIONS ON MY INVENTED POWER TECHNOLOGIES AS LONG AS YOU FOLLOW THROUGH WITH COMPARING MY TECHNOLOGIES AGAINST OTHERS AND THAT YOU ACCEPT THE RESULTS FOR PUBLIC POSTING IN ALL FORMS OF MEDIA. Do You ACCEPT my challenge?
I have two individual 20amp circuits I use 10 gauge wire in the wall,for each one mono block and sub hooked up to one on the left and same on the right and the rest of the system distributed to each side it’s sonically the best I have heard my system sound with 7 gauge power cords on the amps (heavenly) 😊
Unbelievable. Electrical engineers find you guys hilarious. Clean power is a definite must but it seams so much hi end hifi is confirmation bias directly related to expenditure.
What's more Hilarious is that for All the supposed best electrical engineers over all the decades it took a private inventor to school them on how power really works
It's very difficult and painful for these supposed top notch Engineers and Designers who actually believe their work to be top notch(when in reality it's deficiency is glaring). And then to be shown and Respectfully told how inferior their designs are and how they can fix those designs shortcomings when directly compared to WHAT'S BEST AND FULLY POSSIBLE. It's a hard pill for most of these over glorified ego maniacs and then add in their worshipping audiophiles and other misled engineers. No wonder this hobby/passion is mostly on life support.
@@davidcross890 Hi David . I hear you and relay your passion as I have the same . I guess I struggle with the expense of hi end gear .And yes I have pursued perfection much to the amusement of my colleagues who are satellite tracking engineers and work in very high frequency information and amplification so I can only agree with these well learned people. And yes I have dedicated supply for my recording studio. What I can’t understand is how can a 2 channel preamp or power filter cost nearly as much as a hi end Neve or API or SSL console , of which all have amazing power supplies. Best regards Marc Have a great Christmas.
@@WizardofgoszSeparate of my patents here and in numerous overseas countries, I have proprietary applications of various power and circuit designs specifically to "FIX" design and engineering shortcomings that affect quality sound reproduction components. I still offer a Public UA-cam comparative measured metrics test of any power cord, power conditioner, power Regenerator both ac fed or Battery powered, or Filter design compared to my proprietary inventions and circuits. Of all units I have tested up to $56,000 I have not found ANY that even remotely compare. Are you in favor of this Public UA-cam comparative results test?
I have a direct 132KV feed into my house from the national grid and my own custom built substation to get a regular 240V into the listening room. It sounds great but the noise from the transformer in the substation (which used to be my kitchen) drowns out the music at low listening levels. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
I am running dedicated 10 gauge to my listening room so I get the Romex thing - - Paul's comment, although a bit unlikely many would be able to actually do it, poses a question in my mind that if one were running separate "home runs" for each piece of equipment, could that not lend itself to some ground looping type hum or noise problems?
I was thinking the same thing. The cable you use to connect the equipment is probably shielded (which is grounded) and therefore is creating a ground loop between the two devices.
I agree with Paul. If possible run 10 gauge solid wire in the walls. Maybe not separate home runs for every piece of equipment. But at least dedicated home runs for your amplifier(s) and preamp. If it’s not feasible, find out what circuit your stereo is on and see if anything else is on the same circuit. Then remove anything else from that circuit and reroute it to a different circuit. This way you have a dedicated circuit for the stereo.
Paul is right because a single run wire has to be cut at each duplex, which means two connections on each plug! More connections….. more interference in the flow of electrons!
I have a pair of self powered Peradigne A2s that were connected by stock 2 prong cables. I “upgraded” them to Belden 3 prong shielded cables with 2 prong adapters. I thought they gave the sound a bit more body and a more apparent volume. Anyways it was very economical.
Hi Paul, is separate runs instead of a PS Audio Power Plant or do you need both? if both, how does that work? I'm about to build a new house, do I run six or eight separate lines to my audio room? Sometimes the brevity of your videos is inadequate to properly explain your point. Sorry, I do appreciate the effort you go to and I don't wish to offend you.
Electronically, stranded cable is better for high frequency transmission as those frequencies travel on the surface of the wire. Next, speakers are 8 or worse 4 ohm. This means that a wire can be 1 or more ohms. So the larger the wire diameter the less resistance. Hence, good copper strand cable of around 12 gauge is very good.
Hard to believe but Some of the after market power cables cost more than some people’s entire audio system. I can definitely here some differences with rca and speak cables but haven’t done any a/b testing with power cables yet. So For me I’m still on the fence on this one (however swaying to the negative side...).
I guess that some big speaker cables can indeed measure and sound worse (passive and uncontrolled lowpass filter), although worse could be better for some. Of course there's a difference when exotic speaker cables measure worse, even if we can't hear the difference, or «battery powered» heavy interconnects act like than an awful antenna or bend RCA connectors. Good power cables might do a difference -I don't know- if they are poorly placed. Placing power cables and interconnects a little better to avoid ground loops and interferences might be a good alternative. What does a really big difference and improvement, it's well designed acoustic treatment (not that kind of «bass-traps that some brands sell») that is often cheaper and prettier -subjective- than these cables.
I see it a bit differently. If you're happy using just subjective factors like measurements and undefined listening parameters to judge equipment, that's fine. You can use any method you like. For me, however, I prefer a more objective, scientific approach. Otherwise, it seems like you're just guessing.
@@AT-wl9yq That's why I tried to calculate parameters of speaker cables that can disrupt the sound. Although I might be wrong, I know exactly what I'm looking for, therefore I need the specifications of the cable from the manufacturer. I can't trust any brand that don't divulge these values.
If it's a flat panel TV fed by HDMI via a modern signal source, like satellite, cable, or streaming. No power cord or HDMI cable is going to make a difference. Can't happen as the signal is scrambled and encrypted. It's either good or it's full of zits and blue screens. Don't waste your money!
@@andydelle4509 I know bro, I was just being sarcastic. No modern electronics run directly off wall AC. It's rectified, transformed, and filtered before anything else. So to imply that the power cord has an impact on audio gear but not video, well that takes a special kind of imagination. But you know, audiophiles love to spend their money!
@@georgeradulescu7175 aftermarket power cables can improve the noise that you can see on the screen if you don't have good power. If you look closely it kind of looks like static. It is better than using the noise reduction feature.
@@Pete.across.the.street Then explain to me the mechanism in a consumer HDMI chain that causes the degradation? I mean explain how a passive HDMI cable can magically decode the encrypted data stream, make subtle changes in the bit patters to make subtle picture image improvements, the re-encrypt so that the display will honer the copy protected stream? Tell me how that is possible?
If you have every piece of equipment on separate cable run then you will get bigger problem. Every separate run will have slightly different potential so you will run in problem of ground loop.
Scary that you apparently lack discernment on fuse length path or circuit breaker length path and electrical associated properties versus home run gauge length and electrical associated properties
@@Harald_Reindl Respectfully, a simple Fact, I know more about clean power creation and delivery by intellectual property and proprietary circuits inventions and with the widest open invitation no one has or will be able to take my #1 spot. I am open to Measurably and AUDIBLY proving anyone wrong publicly via UA-cam
@@davidcross890 if you really would know aynthing than you would know that making clean DC (which is internally used) from AC is a solved problem for many years - just don't buy crap form morons not able to design a power supply
Perform double blind testing, and explain the Physics behind the individual's, "Perception", that supports their assertion. Haven't observed a tested hypothesis to support the individual's perceptual bias. But if you want to spend your cash on available room Temperature, "Superconductors", when none exist, go ahead.
Someone tell me, please, how it is that 6 feet of #8 wire can do any good when connected between 67 feet of #14 wire and another few inches of #18 wire before reaching the #20 or smaller windings of a power transformer. Really. Show me the science.
@@Pete.across.the.street If you think it's about rejecting noise, install a line reactor much cheaper. If you think it lowers resistance, then measure it with a micro-ohm meter and tell us how much it differs from a regular good quality cable. And while you at it with your micro-ohm meter, check the resistance of the connections. All 3 are measurable and should be disguisable at the amp with measurement equipment if it works. However, I am sure you would rather go on faith, or belief!
@@johndavidson6433 ok I measured my redwave and the stock cable. Red wave measures quite a bit better on all 3 measurements. And the redwave has a tighter fit in the soket
You should first look into your speakers to see what cables were used inside there. Often you can see there already the circumstance why high-quality connection cables from the amplifier to the speaker-boxes are absolute waste, because in the boxes from the collection "How do I light my Christmas tree" were used.
Well, … in my „boxes“ are Transparent Cables ! And, given you have really decent and good components it’s not even a question that cables DO make bigger or smaller difference and are DEFINITELY necessary to complete a great system which otherwise would play below its possibilities. Believe it or not…I don’t really care.
@@bikemike1118 Don't tell anyone, but I discovered that most people who "prefer measurements" have cheap components. Well, when I was young and had components of THAT level, cables didn't make a difference. No need of doing any measurement: my 30W NAD and JBL 4312A sounded the same with any cable. Things started to be substantially different at a certain point, when I could afford something better. I'll tell you another secret: there are people who think a hi end converter, say an MSB, or a DCS, cannot sound better than a $2K converter. The fact that 2k on a converter is all they can afford is, I am told, totally coincidental.
@@DaveJ6515 absolutely true. They have cheap and at best mediocre components but claim that cables don’t make a difference … Just like semi slick tyres doesn’t make a difference on their 80 hp car ….LOL
Thinner wires inside a speaker cabinent are not typically a problem. It's the TOTAL round trip resistance from the amp to the speaker and back to the amp that matters. The higher resistance per foot of the wire inside the speaker is not significant to the total path resistance. You still need to consider the power ratio however. For example I run #10 to my passive sub woofers fed from a 350watt power channel amp. Inside the speaker cabinet I ran #14 for about 18 inches.
Not an absolute waste by any means. The more good cable in the signal path the less the signal degrades. You can also upgrade all the internal wiring pretty easily. Of course, if you don't have a resolving system you may not hear a difference unless the cables were really bad to start with.
I have no doubt that separate home runs are beneficial. Too many people have had a similar experience. It is also a simple thing to test. Once installed it is simple to plug into one run and then listen using separate home runs. What confuses me is that clearly Paul sees a benefit even though his equipment is using Power Plants on each of those runs. I would have imagined the noise would be terminated at the Power Plant.
Audio reviewer Ken Kessler , in the final couple of years of Audio magazine , built a stereo room and had several different brands of in-wall cables run to outlets in the front wall of the listening room and commented on the reaction of others as equipment power was switched between outlets and the noticeable difference it made , to their surprise . Incredible ? Look it up !
So many claims of doing things in audio yielding improved performance go without proof with no scientific explanation, measurements or blind test confirmation. Separate home runs yielding better audio making the system sound better, is perhaps a thing, for example, if the power amp is causing voltage drops on the home run during peaks in the music, those voltage drops could affect a pre-amp to also see the voltage drop and perhaps yield some audible effect, but in my strong opinion, such power noise sensitive pre-amp is poorly engineered.
What about noise transfer from shared ground? Could this not have an effect? And because its being added through the ground it would bypass the transformer. How would you fix this? Maybe by removing other devices from the ground as far back as possible (panel) or placing a quality shunt to drain it when it hits the component (AC cord).
@@stupdasso A ground loop can yield audible effects such as AC hum. Actually separate home runs for separate audio components, that are also interconnected in the setup, can potentially worsen ground loops artifacts when those devices are connected with 3 pin power cables (= ground included).
Ground loop can be avoided by having a floating ground at the component end. Simple experiment - plug your system into the same circuit where there is a dimmer on the lights - now fool around with the dimmer while music is playing. Anything happening. I think you are making the error of thinking all noise is expressed only as a buzz or hum - this is not the case. Separate runs help avoid the parastic sources of noise that affect high frequencies.
@@stupdasso Yes, I'm aware of that indeed. All outlets and lights are Z-Wave controlled in my house (about 80 controllers). I also have plenty of switch mode power supplies around the house, which also add to the noise. A while ago I had an issue with a refrigerator generating some serious switching noise whenever it turned on the compressor. It was strong enough to cause occasional pops in the sound of my DAC. I ended up fixing it with some filter added to the refrigerator. Often it's better to fix the problem at the source and such problem has nothing to do with how thick your power cable between the wall outlet and your audio gear is. I have zero problems with noise from my Z-wave dimmers however. Well designed audio gear is mostly immune to such higher frequencies of noise on the mains. It's relatively easy to check if you have a problem simply by measuring the Vcc of your audio gear with an oscilloscope. Older equipment might have worn out electrolytic caps in the power supply that might make the equipment more sensitive to such noise. I had such problem with my old HGS-18 Velodyne servo subwoofer and after replacing all the electrolytic caps, the problem was gone and the sub was like new.
I use the PS Audio outlet hooked up to dedicated 20amp circuits. That has been the best investment towards power and wiring where I could note the performance of my system improved. I also use aftermarket power cords from PS Audio, Cardas, Nordost, and Audioquest. When swapping things out to accommodate different needs for length. I never heard a noticeable difference from the pricey Nordost over the entry level Audiquest or PS Audio. I think using decent cables makes a lot of sense. I love how the PS Audio cables make a tight solid connection on my components. They are used in my amps and are never coming out. However, in my system using a super expensive power cord over the moderately priced products that I own has not proven to be a worthy investment.
@Cody Smith What a waste of time that would be. Even more than me she could care less about a power cord's impact on a system. Just as long as it provides a good connection to the outlet. I do not care.
@@wilcalint Not sure how this comment pertains. I never had a concern about whether or not a cord of a certain gauge works. I have power cords that are both light and heavy gauges. Either gauge works just fine. If anything, because it draws mor current, I use the heavier gauge on my power amps. Even then I think its overkill. We are only talking 120 volts; they are not like a big Boulder that has to have a 240-volt service.
@@ridirefain6606 There are National and local ( State, County and City ) standards that must be complied with. Hurts my head to remember all of that. City of LA and NYC have very tough electrical standards. What happens of you do not comply? Nothing until someone gets hurt on your device or property is damaged. Then when your standing in front of a Judge in a Lawsuit the question will be asked. Does your device meet the necessary standards ( National Electrical Code, local ordinances ect ect )? If you answer no because "xjfshfksljksf" the Judge will award the complaining party damages. All electrical devices, including power cords, must display certs ( UL, CSA, EU ).
@@wilcalint What does the difference in safety standards has to do with the topic at hand, which refers to does a heavier gauge power cord sound better than a lighter one? There are two points I am making in that regard. The first is I have never heard a difference sonically between them. Second that if you are using something that draws a lot of current or needs 240-volt service. Then it makes sense to invest in a heavier gauge power cord that can safely handle a 240-volt load. For me the primary consideration for a power cord is about providing safety and protection. Not sonics.
@@asilva781 Unfortunately, the opposite is at work, I don't fall easily to suggestion and trust my ears unlike many people, yourself most likely included. I have in past years challenged audio salesmen to identify cables, cable raisers, isolation pads, interconnects even the old green pen for CDs. They were never able to identify so called major differences they proclaimed to audio gods and I sure you could not as well without physically being able to identify the differences prior to listening. I am sorry you are so easily influenced by snake oil salesmen and charlatans but at least in your mind, you think you got something for your money.
@@johndavidson6433 search in usa national library of medicine and write on the search evoked potentials and musical ear. You will find elctrophysiological evidence of what I saying. Then there is scientific evidence of different skill for different people. Sorry. Yes there are better hearing people than other.
@@asilva781Seems all the people I have challenged over the years must have that same defect then, don't think so! They all claimed to be able to hear major differences but when challenged to prove it was not able to do so. I am sorry I am not able to see your emperor's clothes.
Your analogy is not quite right. If there are differences in sound that are too small to hear, then, by definition, it doesn't make any difference to the listener.
I had a guy over who's a scientist. He wants everything proved. I swapped between a normal 'computer' cable and a proper power cable like I did with everyone. Everyone heard the difference, he didn't. We swapped for 2.5 hours and at some point he said: "No, I don't hear it. Tell me, what do YOU hear?". I told him what I heard and he literally said: "Oh, I heard that all along but I thought it was just my brain fooling me". The annoying this is that he still wouldn't believe the power cable made that difference. So yeah, that went well. I did go through the process of putting my audio rig in its own group, phase and fuse. And here's the kicker; Phase? I don't heare a difference. Group? You get a bit more air, a bit more 'black', nothing major. That fuse though. Swapping an automatic fuseboard switchy thing for a physical melting fuse of yore, all of the difference. A much smoother and homogenic sounding tonal balance with low end that seems way more effortless. I did not see that one coming. Good 80 dollar upgrade as a friend of mine installed it for free. Got to love electrician friends!
When people are like that, I just trick them. When they say they can't hear differences in things like cables, I go to the back of the system and pretend to change things around. Then I tell them were now listening to 2 different components, like amps, preamps, source, etc... I just play the same exact cable demo again and now a difference can be heard. Some people will make the argument that the differences heard are not real because they now expect to hear a difference with components, and not cables. That's true. Stuff like that can happen. However, the differences heard are always the same. For example, If I have a bright cable and a dull sounding cable, the "component" they pick as bright is always the same as the bright cable.
@@AT-wl9yq It's a friend of mine, I don't trick my friends. I assume they are smart enough to hear the difference (I also had someone over who claimed to be too deaf to even hear the difference between two completely different speakers. Yet even he heard it, he was amazed. He still figured he wouldn't want it for his home as his hearing was too shit to properly appreciate it, but he loved that it worked so well. And it's not even like you have to have expensive cables either. A friend of mine makes 'budget' cables with ViaBlue X25 cable or LAPP Ölflex 100 CY 5x1,5 and fake Furutech plugs from Aliexpress. Works a treat1
@@rollingtroll I never said I tricked my friends. These were people that came into my store. They heard the differences but wouldn't admit it. So, I tricked them into telling the truth.
Not Nuclear! I mean splitting atoms? That will make your sound harsh and overly bright. Audiophiles in the know always specify hydro electric from from a smooth calm lake.
Oy Vey are you really that clueless? You certainly do not understand hV power transmission, do ya...and what does that have to do with home hi fi? Consumer hi fi?
I can hear difference in my speaker cables that's good enough for me. 🤣🤣🤣 And with better power cable i can see on my amp and hear slightest audio start to be audible from 10 db instead of over 45 db before i heard the slightest sound come from my speakers with a generic cable. Oh yeah forgot my amp is set - 10 db on my front speakers because of audessy room correction correction.
01:25 is Paul talking about Cognitive Dissonance...? Clean power is an absolute no brainier when it comes to electronics...my back ground is more in car audio where it was a big issue.
@@davidcross890 I think most of it for me stems from cheap overrated garbage car audio amps out there...rated on extreme peak power only back in the late 1980's. A few speakers were sacrificed to that ignorance. I used to be a movie addict and was friends with a local movie theater manager who gave me tons of free tickets; do you remember the move Triple X staring Vin Diesel? The avalanche scene had so much recorded distortion it was blowing a speaker every showing almost. They had brought in a few consultants by the second week even and no change. I told him they will need to double or triple the amplifier power to drop the distortion if they want to hit the same SPL...in much greater detail and it worked. Plus now it sounded 25% better in their IMAX after that too, and I was given a free movie pass for the year too! #Bonus
@@sickjohnson with HUGE RESPECT that is a very real aspect that begins to solve the overall problems of amplifier output. My amplifiers that I designed and built correct for the flawed circuit designs that exist in all amplifiers that I know of at ANY price providing as distortion free as exists at any power level up to my rated max under any condition down to 1/2 ohm stability. I could have built it to go lower in impedance drive capabilities but in audiophileland going lower than 1/2 ohm in drive impedance capabilities is unnecessary.
Why change cables to get different sound when you can just change your amplifier to get different sound? Roomer has it that on average, the amplifier change is cheaper as well.
Congress passed a law that if you change your amplifier, then you are not allowed to change your cables. So you are right to change only your amplifier, because you will not be allowed to then change your cables. The audio police will come for you.
If you can hear a difference, then you should be able to measure a difference. Gravity we do not know how it works but we can measure it. Why not audio?
"If you can hear a difference, then you should be able to measure a difference. Gravity we do not know how it works but we can measure it. Why not audio?" Not everything can be measured with today's technology. For example: Different speakers throw a different width soundstage. No man-made measurements exist, that will tell you which speakers will throw a wider soundstage. No man-made tool exists, that can make that measurement. However, there is a way to make that measurement, and there is a tool that will do so. Our ears.
@@NoEgg4u You can most certainly measure impedance, capacitance and voltage drop in power cables. If there is no difference between two cables but you think you hear a difference you are kidding yourself. Think! PS Audio relies on expensive equipment to measure the performance of their equipment. Do you really believe they cannot measure differences in power cables that could explain changes in the equipment's performance?
@@cbcdesign001 You cannot measure a soundstage. And different cables will affect the width of the soundstage. "If there is no difference between two cables but you think you hear a difference you are kidding yourself." I have never heard anyone say or write that they can hear a difference between two cables when there is no difference between the two cables. Why did you insert that? PS Audio, as well as countless others, can measure all sorts of things. So can our ears. I have swapped power cords and interconnects on professionally set-up, high-end stereos. Sometimes it was a strain to hear any difference. I would have a sense that the sound is somehow different -- ever so slightly. But if given a blind test, I would have no idea which cables were being used, due to the close similarities in the cables. I have also swapped power cords and interconnects on professionally set-up, high-end stereos, where the difference was striking. No guess work. A person deaf in one ear could hear the difference. Most of the time, the difference was somewhere in the middle of not hearing it, to hearing a vivid difference. Sometimes, you do not notice the difference, until you put back the lesser quality cables. On a professionally set-up, high-end stereo, if you put in slightly better cables, and you are not sure if it is better, then you listen for 20 minutes, and then you put back the original cables, and listen to the same songs. That is when you will immediately hear the downgrade, even if it is subtle. And that is also when you will immediately hear the upgrade, if you then put back the better cables. If lab testing shows no difference, when my ears heard a clear difference, then that means that the lab's testing was flawed -- they did not do a proper test. Some things, with today's technology, cannot be tested -- or no one knows how to conduct the test, such as a soundstage's width test. Our ears are the only equipment that can test the width of a soundstage.
@@davidcross890 Everyone who has ever actually looked at the research done on this subject would come to absolute conclusion that this is indeed snake oil. If it can't be measured with the best equipment known to man then I HIGHLY doubt you or any other person could hear a difference. If you like to waste money on useless snake oil products, that's great! I personally detest this kind of crap. This is an awful thing for the industry as a whole.
@@kevinwest1607 Kevin, I was told similar things when I Invented white and multi color spectrum led lights, amongst other things. My Power technologies are PROVABLY and Measurably anything but Snake Oil. I understand there are many less than performing products that I have tested. I invented designed and built this technology suite of circuits to realise tangible measurable differences that are easily repeatable
@@kevinwest1607 my equipment easily and consistently measures products power robbing distortions and signal induced distortions and signal imbedded distortions
@0:43 "We are clearly drinkers of the Kool-Aid" (referring to your position on using quality cables, because they are better for sound quality). Paul, why do you attack yourself and imply that you are the one who is wrong? The Kool-Aid drinkers are the ones that insist that all cables are the same; that any properly functioning cable will sound the same as any other properly functioning cable. Paul, as it pertains to audio, you are not a Kool-Aid drinker.
@@Roof_Pizza "Ever heard of cable sellers cheating? I wonder why they felt the need to cheat." No, I never heard of cable sellers cheating. In fact, I never heard of anyone ever cheating at anything. I do not understand what the word "cheating" is in the dictionary. No one ever cheats in any industry (athletics, politics, taxes, exams, gambling, etc). I guess that if a cable seller cheats, then that means that all cables are the same (and all athletes are the same, and all exam takers are the same, etc).
@@Harald_Reindl yeah sure I don't. I only have the most advanced power circuits and power supplies on the planet. But, these ridiculous statements about power comes from you, the person who has some version of the same broken failures complained about by so many. Get a Grip on Reality. Not everyone is so accepting of failures that can and have by me been fixed. I Am happy to demonstrably show you publicly for all the audio community to Learn what is fixable in their Designs that would and does yield Superior Sonics.
OH GOD PLEASE NOT CABLES AGAIN. it doesnt matter. You are just putting money in the cable manufacturers pockets. Just enjoy the music. Life is too short.......
Which cables have you used for your listening test? Please name the components of the stereo that you used for you listening test. What room treatments were used for your listening test? Who set-up the stereo? Do they understand the critical nature of speaker placement, down the fractions of an inch? Or did you never conduct a listening test?
@@NoEgg4u all my caliber gear is all dual mono except for the cartridge feed and of the caliber of MIT ACC268 OR better for each of my systems. On my main 2 channel system my invented Mono Amplifiers require hydraulic lift and dollys to position at just under 645lbs each....unlimited dynamics and virtual zero DISTORTION under even a 1/2 ohm load
Actually, just some measurements as proof would be the proper way to make a case in favor of fancy power cables, but alas, none presented. In fact, the only measurements have demonstrated that power cables not NOT make a difference.
You first need to know what it is you're measuring for. LCR measurement of a cable, that's not directly it. Try watching the current waveform with a scope using a 'current shunt' in-line with the AC into an audio amp, drive it hard into a speaker load (non-resistive, music program material) and monitor the waveform on a scope. If the DUT is the AC cable, look at the waveform of the voltage drop across it. Now, change the source of AC, whether it be through a different AC cable, different wall outlet in the home, larger gauge in-wall cable, etc. and see how this waveform changes. It's a rudimentary view but one that begins to peel away a layer of onion seeing how the amp actually draws current (If you've not done this before, make sure the scope is ground isolated, NO earth ground connection, battery powered digital storage scope is the proper tool for this, maybe add 1 megohm series resistors or use a x10 probe to be safe).
Which measurements show which speakers throw a wider soundstage? Your ears can hear the difference. Your ears can measure it. What is the printed measurement for the same? What man-made tool conducts a test to determine the width of a soundstage? If you spoke to the actual person that designed the speakers, and you asked that person for the "soundstage width" measurement, what measurement would they provide? Sometimes we hear differences in sound quality for which no measurements exist (with today's technology).
I am prepared to publicly via UA-cam comparatively test my power cords, circuits etc. Against any product at any price...that will clearly delineate the facts
@@jpslabsllc Not relevant! Measure and monitor the DC rails of the amp or component. That's what matters. As long as the reservoir caps are adequate the minor ills of the AC line input are compensated for.
Reminding everyone, again, that Paul is totally against a blind AB/x test. And yes I have in fact done a blind AB/x test on speaker cables and AC power cables.
@@NoEgg4u No, in defense of Paul executing a proper AB/x test is a pain in the ass. It takes time and careful planning. One that I was involved with we had 20 people voting ( golden ears ). And it took up most of a Saturday afternoon. Also it requires the construction of a switching device that is acceptable and believable to all. In that case it was constructed from several heavy duty industrial copper knife switches. Also accepted is that most, if not all, of the listeners will hear no difference between A & B therefore will not be able to easily say if X is either A or B. It is a very tough test.
@@NoEgg4u When 20 golden ears cannot consistently identify a difference between 10 cents per foot zip cord and a $10,000 speaker cable there is a LOT of frustration involved. And that's why Paul does not like the AB/x test.
@@NoEgg4u One more wrinkle here. Properly done an AB/x test is done with a single speaker, not a stereo pair. That takes the Gee Whiz out of the test and gets down to if you can really identify a difference.
Power cables are so far down on the list of things that will change the sound of your system, that for almost all people, it's not even worth worrying about. I also believe that you should be free to buy whatever makes you happy. But to claim a concrete and repeatable improvement in sound without a physics explanation or measurements, well that's just preying on people's insecurities. "It just sounds better, trust me!"
Did you ever drive a car that blew you away? Since you did not engineer that car, you cannot tell anyone to trust your experience. Did you ever eat a meal that was super delicious? Since you are not a Top Chef, you cannot tell anyone to trust your taste buds. Did you ever see a painting that took your breath away? Since you are not an artist, you cannot tell anyone to trust your eyes. Paul is not a physicist. But he hears what he hears. It is his business. He heard the difference. He did not imagine it. "Power cables are so far down on the list of things that will change the sound of your system, that for almost all people, it's not even worth worrying about." Most people do not own FR30 speakers, and similar quality components. But for those that do, then the power cables are not so far down the list. No one is going to call in an electrician for their Walmart stereo.
You buy the most expensive power cables. Now you have to buy two $30,000.00 power amplifiers to make the power cables sound good. Logic..😀👍🤗😎 makes sense to me…😳
Snakeoil. Pop the lid on your amp and put an analog voltage meter on the DC power supply rails for the transistors. Play bass heavy music really loud. Does the meter dip when the bass hits? I have yet to see DC voltage at the rails drop in any of my equipment. So if you think the AC line voltage meter on your Furman moving around a few volts is a problem you've been fooled because that doesn't matter. DC rail voltage is what matters and I've never seen it dip in any of my gear. That's what matters, end of story. Don't be fooled.
When you shop for a TV, do you look at the picture quality? Why bother, when all you need to do is look at the measurements. Since the aspects of what you were measuring are not showing you differences in cables, that means that you are not conducting a proper measuring test. If you hear a dog barking, but your thermometer is not registering that barking, then you are not performing a proper measuring test. You should have been using a sound pressure level meter to register the dog's barking. I do not know what measuring tool exists (if any) that can measure the benefits of using better quality cables. I do know that you did not use the right tool (probably because no such tool exists). If you believe that you can measure anything you can hear, then please name the tool that can measure which set of speakers throw a wider soundstage. You ears will hear the difference. So it is real. Please provide the specification of the soundstage width measurement, and the tool used for that measurement.
@@NoEgg4u I think you missed the point because I'm not good at communicating it. The DC from the rectifier is what actually powers anything, and in solid state gear I've never seen the DC voltage on the rails fluctuate at all in the slightest. So do not tell me the highly volatile AC matters because it doesn't get past the power supply board. Tube amps can be affected by AC voltage but a good tube amp is engineered to not suffer as much. Try to understand what actually happens inside your gear before suggesting nonsense like you know something. This subject became outdated well before PS Audio was formed. I respect Paul and PS more as makers of art than makers of audio gear. You are buying art at their prices and I see the value. The gear is very beautiful. I respect it for that.
The more you pay for your cables the more you feel they sound better. When you go shopping for cables and want the maximum placebo effect, you need to find the most expensive cables.
"The more you pay for your cables the more you feel they sound better. When you go shopping for cables and want the maximum placebo effect, you need to find the most expensive cables." ...says the man that never tested. He knows what sounds like what, without conducting a listening test. He will explain why he does not need to listen. Any excuse to not conduct his own listening test. Doing so frightens him, because when he hears the difference, he will wish he was invisible, thinking back to all of his mindless comments about cables not making any difference. And he also always states "expensive", when the operative word is "quality". Expensive is not necessarily quality. However, quality is always quality. But he intentionally states expensive, because there are some expensive cables that are not quality. This is true of any products. Don't fall for his "expensive" word play. Cables matter, on a revealing stereo. Not on a Walmart stereo. But on a quality stereo, quality cables matter.
Or if a person can easily afford the best dismiss the foolishness of those that have no experiences with the best in cable...on this topic I may suggest you start ThinkingBetter
@@NoEgg4u Cables are the most measurable components in an audio system. Like anything else in audio, they follow laws of physics having a combination of capacitance, inductance, resistance, skin effect and shielding. Audio through a cable is quite simple because the frequencies are very low. With null-testing you can easily capture the differential signal between two cables and prove (yes prove) that the delta is not within audible dynamic range. But cables can audibly matter under some conditions. Long speaker cables can yield an audible insertion loss and loss of damping factor (increased ringing from speaker cones not decaying energy fast enough). Poor shielding can cause SNR issues. No proper designed cable will yield audible changes in the tonal balance (frequency response) or other more psychoacoustic matters like perceived soundstage. And the topic of audiophile power cables is mostly one of snake oil. Still, I like using heavy cables and some times expensive cables as they bring visual confidence in a system. For example, I use two US$1500 AudioQuest power cables to my HGS-18 Velodyne subwoofers that I have recently upgraded with new caps. They can each use the full power of one home run cable outlet as they peak at 3000 Watts. I’m fan of servo subs in sealed design btw as they can provide superior clean, fast impact, fast decay and overall more precise with lower distorting bass better than some boomy ported speaker or subwoofer. Unfortunately it’s also much more complex to make a well-working servo subwoofer and too few companies master it.
@@ThinkingBetter "Cables are the most measurable components in an audio system." More word play. "most" measurable is not 100% measurable. "With null-testing you can easily capture the differential signal between two cables and prove (yes prove) that the delta is not within audible dynamic range." You are copying / pasting the talking points from cable denier's postings. Null testing does not "prove" everything. It proves only the results for which it is designed to test. You have never listened to a professionally set-up, high-end stereo. You have never conducted a test with the cables you claim you have proof of results. It is so easy to do what you do. Just say that you know what you know, without ever checking for yourself. Every marvel of engineering was thought to be known to work based on its proof in its design, and yet the engineers tested their products, to confirm that what they thought they knew for certain was actually reality. You try to buck the system with "I know everything, without testing". You can claim you have proof until the cows come home, and you have no proof because you did not test. People with professionally set-up, high-end stereos have heard the differences that cables make. I have done cable swapping on such systems in my local high-end audio store. Just as you can hear the difference between two different sets of speakers, you can hear the difference between two different sets of cables (albeit to a lesser degree as compared to speaker changing). The change in the sound is not imagined. It is not wishful thinking. The change in the sound is "in your face" real. The change in the sound could be heard by someone deaf in one ear. Having heard what I have heard, you can spew all of the BS your fingers are capable of typing, and you will not change the minds of anyone who has heard what they heard. Did you read what I wrote? Can I convince you that you really did not read it? Well, you cannot convince anyone that they did not hear what they heard. And that you continue to try is evidence of your cluelessness. Quote all of the testing results that you find on-line. They do not test everything, and it is whatever is missing from their testing that flaws their testing. Flawed because cables do change the sound quality on highly revealing systems. So any tests that you shovel out are flawed for not revealing what our ears can plainly hear. Stop making excuses for not actually using your ears in a real listening test. If you refuse to use your own ears, then you are too stupid to understand how stupid your position is. Stop trolling. Grow up and listen for yourself and learn.
@@NoEgg4u As a long-time professional in audio engineering, I’m very familiar with your views and also know well the tricks to sell these things and make you get those views. The audio cable business in particular is using pseudo science and false claims in making you pay a fortune for a few feet of cable. Those cables are often made in southern China in areas near Shenzhen like Baoan, Zhuhai, Dongguan and others. You pay a few Dollars, perhaps 10, for such cable and can then sell it with some snake oil for, let’s say $1000. If you put the connectors on the cable in Europe or the USA, you can even claim it’s made in some western country and with some branding, your cable can be sold for $5000. I’m very familiar with the supply chain of this business and it’s one relying on people like you spreading their claims. I used to be member of a professional listening test team for almost a decade in a well known audio company and we did blind testing also. Of course a lot of tiny differences can be detected. How a speaker is angled to you, how the room is reflecting the audio and other things can often be proven easily in a blind test. What people think of audible differences between cables are usually not passing a blind test however (done this in some sessions). It’s ok to deny the validity of a null-test if you actually understand what it is and you have blind test data that can prove a point of difference between the sound of two cables, even if a null-test proves the difference of all audible frequencies is below 96dB. I’ve been fooled myself many times to think something sound better to realize I can’t pass my claim in a blind test. I used to get checked by an audiologist who came to check us every year to qualify as members of the listening team and often do my self check. Getting a good reference in what is best of audio fidelity is also important. For example, I have a pair of Stax SR-009 electrostatic headphones that I enjoy when exploring the resolving qualities in music. A lot of good engineering can be involved in a high-end system and I’m the first to promote listening tests as a very important part of good audio engineering. But I also know that measurements are super important in ensuring you get everything right. And it’s also true that some systems measure worse (usually on simple data like THD) but actually sound better. Search in Google for “the world’s number one audiophile” then check my UA-cam channel’s only video. It’s from one of so many listening rooms in his building that he recently has turned into an audiophile museum (biggest on the planet). That guy (Li Jihui) has audio gear for millions of Dollars (about 6000 audio gear components incl. several I’ve been engineering) and also owns millions of vinyl discs and CDs. I met him professionally a few years ago and spent an entire day listening in his many setups. He likes foreign visitors (his place is west of Shenzhen in China a couple of hours of driving). There is no place like it.
Because you have a kind of cortical deafness. sorry you have no skills to hear subltle differences. May be you are a great dancer or pohotographer but not a good audiophile.
@@ZeusTheTornado Placebo’s can cost a lot of money and bring in higher profit margins..😀 DSD is a great Placebo for those that financially benefit from it..😎
Re-wiring a new listening room in a month or two and will keep this in mind - thanks!
I really enjoy listening to my old Dynaco-ST70 tube amp when it's connected to those old cloth 14-gauge AC runs (in the wall) combined with 16 gauge zip cord speaker wire. It really enhances that tube ambience when I play those original jazz recordings from the 50's.
I have an older home (1947) and I "upgraded" and installed a new #10 AWG ROMEX home run (right next to the homes original #14 AWG BX outlet I was using). The difference is very noticeable - a wider sound stage and more depth. I was a bit shocked - as I still believe the world is flat.
The sound of the songs I like is better when I convert Watts to Volts
@@georgemartinezza Also, don't forget to put a flux capacitor in-line with the dilithium crystal power source.
Looool
@@joeythedime1838 I hope you're using cryogenically frozen dilithium crystals otherwise the transparency of your system will suffer. The optimal composition of atmospheric gasses is also crucial to hearing the finer micro details that would otherwise cloud your hearing but to get the ultimate in sound reproduction you need a sealed room with the air pressure equivalent to 2000m above sea level.
You no it makes me think, with all the negative talk around power cables and the talk about how it just can’t make any difference because measurements say that this is the case, then why is it that in my system a can clearly hear the sound difference, I have also tried over 20 different brands of power cables in my system, l am lucky to have been able to try this, I feel most people in this game haven’t had the chance to try because of the crazy costs of same of the power cables on the market. Everything in your system makes a difference better or worse it’s up to your ears.
GREAT BABELING ,PAUL
AND I put in a dedicated 10 gauge home run,at the beginning of my journey to future proof my power needs and so I don’t know what difference it made sonically but I am happy 🤗 I did 👍💚💚💚
Yes I have separate runs to the breaker panel for each component using 10 gage copper romex. My electrical panel already had copper versus the cheaper panels for crap aluminum. People do not like touching in the walls so they buy all these power conditioners and tons of other do dads trying to regulate a crap input, clean it, and send it out. I did all new plugs and the 10 gage copper romex with new circuit breakers for about 2,000. Team of 2 electricians did about a day to do it (6 hours). Huge difference. Lots of ways to go about system design. Think about your budget and then think about which ones have the most impact and build your way up to other upgrades as budget and time allows. I did a demo of the Sonus Faber Aida 2's today. In person the craftsmanship of the Italians almost took my breathe away. Really stunning. The sound was awesome also.
This is the way ^^^
Cooper buss bars in your panel? Great. Too bad the hundreds of sub stations in the path are all wired with aluminum conductors.
@@andydelle4509 and you know this because you built his house?
@@Audiofreak71 I have no idea whats in his house other than what he stated here. What I am saying is the national electrical grid is comprised of substations constructed with aluminum conductors. Take a look at one. Aluminum does have higher resistance than copper but it can be compensated for as done by the utilities.
@@andydelle4509 I have taken a look at one , I built my own house and run copper through the whole thing.
That is why I have my amps on their dedicated 20 amp circuit and the rest of the audio gear on a separate 20 amp dedicated circuit.
A few years back i got a length of #10 wire with very thick insulation on the individual conductors and the overall jacket along with some good quality ends. I built 2ea 3ft cords and replaced the power cords on my PS Audio M700's and it sounded a little better to me. They plug into a receptacle that has a home run to the panel that is about 8ft away, that's a 4 banger receptacle - two for the power amps and one for a DIY filtered hub (8 outlets) that feeds all the low power electronics.
The filter is a huge old military grade corcam that's rated for 20amps, I specifically don't plug the power amps into it because i don't want the huge current slugs warping the inductors that are in the filter. I used to do alot of EMI testing on power supplies back when i had a real job and found one little realized problem was small wire size and dainty ferrite cores on some AC EMI chokes. Like Al Bundy I'm a fan of big-uns!
Psychoacoustics
“If you can’t see the microbial world with your bare eyes, that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist” was a good analogy.
No, it is not. Back then there wasn't a company called Bugquest to sell (for up to 5K) a cream that kills the unseen, unfelt, unable to confirm their existence bugs.
@@sebastiantomita5956 You missed the point of the analogy. It excludes purchasing anything. To your point however, no audiophile would be wise to purchase replacement wires or cables at any price if they cannot subsequently hear and enjoy the difference that it brings to them when integrated with their audio system.
Surgeons used to do surgery with out washing their hands either.
Most people can't do anything inside the wall. But you can upgrade the outlet. Connected to a power conditioner/regenerator with isolated banks. Will make a difference.
Home runs make a big difference if you can do it. Even just moving 1 device causing ground loops to its own outlet can make a world of difference.
a wise way to approach this topic 👏🏻👏🏻
Interesting subject that raises a question in my mind: How does plugging the equipment into a PS Power Regenerator affect the results? Is the Regenerator subject to the same variables?
Do I hear crickets?
@@Wizardofgosz I am familiar with that video on Amir's channel. My invented power circuits generally speaking will and do measurably outperform any other power circuits I have ever measured. My power circuits do clearly improve the listening experience.
@@WizardofgoszI am PUBLICLY STATING that you are fully misinformed on the reality of what's possible per your comments and importantly what I have already done and can easily be proven PUBLICLY via a posted UA-cam comparative test. I welcome ANY PUBLIC POSTED CHALLENGES TO MY ASSERTIONS ON MY INVENTED POWER TECHNOLOGIES AS LONG AS YOU FOLLOW THROUGH WITH COMPARING MY TECHNOLOGIES AGAINST OTHERS AND THAT YOU ACCEPT THE RESULTS FOR PUBLIC POSTING IN ALL FORMS OF MEDIA.
Do You ACCEPT my challenge?
I have two individual 20amp circuits I use 10 gauge wire in the wall,for each one mono block and sub hooked up to one on the left and same on the right and the rest of the system distributed to each side it’s sonically the best I have heard my system sound with 7 gauge power cords on the amps (heavenly) 😊
Unbelievable. Electrical engineers find you guys hilarious. Clean power is a definite must but it seams so much hi end hifi is confirmation bias directly related to expenditure.
What's more Hilarious is that for All the supposed best electrical engineers over all the decades it took a private inventor to school them on how power really works
@@davidcross890 yeah / na
It's very difficult and painful for these supposed top notch Engineers and Designers who actually believe their work to be top notch(when in reality it's deficiency is glaring). And then to be shown and Respectfully told how inferior their designs are and how they can fix those designs shortcomings when directly compared to WHAT'S BEST AND FULLY POSSIBLE. It's a hard pill for most of these over glorified ego maniacs and then add in their worshipping audiophiles and other misled engineers. No wonder this hobby/passion is mostly on life support.
@@davidcross890 Hi David . I hear you and relay your passion as I have the same . I guess I struggle with the expense of hi end gear .And yes I have pursued perfection much to the amusement of my colleagues who are satellite tracking engineers and work in very high frequency information and amplification so I can only agree with these well learned people. And yes I have dedicated supply for my recording studio.
What I can’t understand is how can a 2 channel preamp or power filter cost nearly as much as a hi end Neve or API or SSL console , of which all have amazing power supplies.
Best regards Marc
Have a great Christmas.
@@WizardofgoszSeparate of my patents here and in numerous overseas countries, I have proprietary applications of various power and circuit designs specifically to "FIX" design and engineering shortcomings that affect quality sound reproduction components. I still offer a Public UA-cam comparative measured metrics test of any power cord, power conditioner, power Regenerator both ac fed or Battery powered, or Filter design compared to my proprietary inventions and circuits. Of all units I have tested up to $56,000 I have not found ANY that even remotely compare. Are you in favor of this Public UA-cam comparative results test?
Electricity looks at the wire and if it is too small it gets scared and tries to go back into the wall
I have a direct 132KV feed into my house from the national grid and my own custom built substation to get a regular 240V into the listening room. It sounds great but the noise from the transformer in the substation (which used to be my kitchen) drowns out the music at low listening levels. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Where on earth did you find that massive braided power cable, I want one
I am running dedicated 10 gauge to my listening room so I get the Romex thing - - Paul's comment, although a bit unlikely many would be able to actually do it, poses a question in my mind that if one were running separate "home runs" for each piece of equipment, could that not lend itself to some ground looping type hum or noise problems?
I was thinking the same thing. The cable you use to connect the equipment is probably shielded (which is grounded) and therefore is creating a ground loop between the two devices.
I believe you about this makes sense especially if you run more current
I agree with Paul. If possible run 10 gauge solid wire in the walls. Maybe not separate home runs for every piece of equipment. But at least dedicated home runs for your amplifier(s) and preamp. If it’s not feasible, find out what circuit your stereo is on and see if anything else is on the same circuit. Then remove anything else from that circuit and reroute it to a different circuit. This way you have a dedicated circuit for the stereo.
Makes sense. Not sure at what level of a stereo you'd need to hear that improvement
Paul is right because a single run wire has to be cut at each duplex, which means two connections on each plug! More connections….. more interference in the flow of electrons!
No.
I have a pair of self powered Peradigne A2s that were connected by stock 2 prong cables. I “upgraded” them to Belden 3 prong shielded cables with 2 prong adapters. I thought they gave the sound a bit more body and a more apparent volume. Anyways it was very economical.
Hi Paul, is separate runs instead of a PS Audio Power Plant or do you need both? if both, how does that work? I'm about to build a new house, do I run six or eight separate lines to my audio room?
Sometimes the brevity of your videos is inadequate to properly explain your point. Sorry, I do appreciate the effort you go to and I don't wish to offend you.
Electronically, stranded cable is better for high frequency transmission as those frequencies travel on the surface of the wire. Next, speakers are 8 or worse 4 ohm. This means that a wire can be 1 or more ohms. So the larger the wire diameter the less resistance. Hence, good copper strand cable of around 12 gauge is very good.
Hard to believe but Some of the after market power cables cost more than some people’s entire audio system.
I can definitely here some differences with rca and speak cables but haven’t done any a/b testing with power cables yet.
So For me I’m still on the fence on this one (however swaying to the negative side...).
I guess that some big speaker cables can indeed measure and sound worse (passive and uncontrolled lowpass filter), although worse could be better for some. Of course there's a difference when exotic speaker cables measure worse, even if we can't hear the difference, or «battery powered» heavy interconnects act like than an awful antenna or bend RCA connectors. Good power cables might do a difference -I don't know- if they are poorly placed. Placing power cables and interconnects a little better to avoid ground loops and interferences might be a good alternative. What does a really big difference and improvement, it's well designed acoustic treatment (not that kind of «bass-traps that some brands sell») that is often cheaper and prettier -subjective- than these cables.
I see it a bit differently. If you're happy using just subjective factors like measurements and undefined listening parameters to judge equipment, that's fine. You can use any method you like. For me, however, I prefer a more objective, scientific approach. Otherwise, it seems like you're just guessing.
@@AT-wl9yq That's why I tried to calculate parameters of speaker cables that can disrupt the sound. Although I might be wrong, I know exactly what I'm looking for, therefore I need the specifications of the cable from the manufacturer. I can't trust any brand that don't divulge these values.
I can confirm. Switched my cheap power cable off my JBL sub to Audioquest Y3 cable, and sub is tighter and faster now.
Sure buddy, sure.
Thank you for the explanation.
I love what my 10gauge after-market IEC cords do for my system.
Maybe 8ga would be better
How much should I spend on a power cable to see an improvement in my TV's picture? What would be an adequate gauge? Does length matter?
If it's a flat panel TV fed by HDMI via a modern signal source, like satellite, cable, or streaming. No power cord or HDMI cable is going to make a difference. Can't happen as the signal is scrambled and encrypted. It's either good or it's full of zits and blue screens. Don't waste your money!
@@andydelle4509 I know bro, I was just being sarcastic. No modern electronics run directly off wall AC. It's rectified, transformed, and filtered before anything else. So to imply that the power cord has an impact on audio gear but not video, well that takes a special kind of imagination. But you know, audiophiles love to spend their money!
@@georgeradulescu7175 aftermarket power cables can improve the noise that you can see on the screen if you don't have good power. If you look closely it kind of looks like static. It is better than using the noise reduction feature.
@@andydelle4509 not true
@@Pete.across.the.street Then explain to me the mechanism in a consumer HDMI chain that causes the degradation? I mean explain how a passive HDMI cable can magically decode the encrypted data stream, make subtle changes in the bit patters to make subtle picture image improvements, the re-encrypt so that the display will honer the copy protected stream? Tell me how that is possible?
If you have every piece of equipment on separate cable run then you will get bigger problem. Every separate run will have slightly different potential so you will run in problem of ground loop.
Next : bigger cables lifters for smoother sound.
10 gauge (2,5mm2) sounds like nothing special thick.
Do Americans usually use thinner wires in the walls, than Europe?
They should run thinner in Europe because you use 220 rather than the 110 volt system in North America
Best $ I ever spent on my system was a home run to the box
Wait *EACH* piece of equipment? I thought this whole time you're saying a home run for the whole audio system.
If you are running monoblocks you would want a minimum of 3 home runs. 1 for each amp, and 1 for everything else
I like that term hone run fir separate circuits. Yes true. Not that expensive either.
Paul, what size is the wire in a fuse that every products has? What is the ratio to 10 gauge wire? Thanks!
Don't come with facts when audiofools argue about cables of all types
Scary that you apparently lack discernment on fuse length path or circuit breaker length path and electrical associated properties versus home run gauge length and electrical associated properties
@@davidcross890 scary that you audiophiles think the last 0.5 meters in the power chain making a difference
@@Harald_Reindl Respectfully, a simple Fact, I know more about clean power creation and delivery by intellectual property and proprietary circuits inventions and with the widest open invitation no one has or will be able to take my #1 spot. I am open to Measurably and AUDIBLY proving anyone wrong publicly via UA-cam
@@davidcross890 if you really would know aynthing than you would know that making clean DC (which is internally used) from AC is a solved problem for many years - just don't buy crap form morons not able to design a power supply
Perform double blind testing, and explain the Physics behind the individual's, "Perception", that supports their assertion. Haven't observed a tested hypothesis to support the individual's perceptual bias. But if you want to spend your cash on available room Temperature, "Superconductors", when none exist, go ahead.
Great, now I have to buy a new home for the speakers. 🤪
Putting an expensive cable on my $500 stereo would make just my gas tank sound empty for a month.
People won’t even try themselves yet have opinion - typical. I always say try it I’m not going to try to convince you.
With some degree of education you don't need to try nonsense
@@Harald_Reindl the definition of stupid is thinking you know everything. There is a lot you don’t know yet my friend, just accept it.
@@Harald_Reindl Your assertion that it is nonsense is nonsense.
Get a server/commercial/industrial grade (non switched?) distribution panel as a minimum requirement for a better sound without breaking the bank.
Someone tell me, please, how it is that 6 feet of #8 wire can do any good
when connected between 67 feet of #14 wire and another few inches of #18 wire
before reaching the #20 or smaller windings of a power transformer.
Really. Show me the science.
Come on, you know it's not about science, it's about belief!
Rejects noise, better connection, and lowers resistance
@@Pete.across.the.street If you think it's about rejecting noise, install a line reactor much cheaper. If you think it lowers resistance, then measure it with a micro-ohm meter and tell us how much it differs from a regular good quality cable. And while you at it with your micro-ohm meter, check the resistance of the connections. All 3 are measurable and should be disguisable at the amp with measurement equipment if it works. However, I am sure you would rather go on faith, or belief!
@@johndavidson6433 I'm on it sir
@@johndavidson6433 ok I measured my redwave and the stock cable. Red wave measures quite a bit better on all 3 measurements. And the redwave has a tighter fit in the soket
You should first look into your speakers to see what cables were used inside there. Often you can see there already the circumstance why high-quality connection cables from the amplifier to the speaker-boxes are absolute waste, because in the boxes from the collection "How do I light my Christmas tree" were used.
Well, … in my „boxes“ are Transparent Cables ! And, given you have really decent and good components it’s not even a question that cables DO make bigger or smaller difference and are DEFINITELY necessary to complete a great system which otherwise would play below its possibilities. Believe it or not…I don’t really care.
@@bikemike1118 Don't tell anyone, but I discovered that most people who "prefer measurements" have cheap components. Well, when I was young and had components of THAT level, cables didn't make a difference.
No need of doing any measurement: my 30W NAD and JBL 4312A sounded the same with any cable. Things started to be substantially different at a certain point, when I could afford something better.
I'll tell you another secret: there are people who think a hi end converter, say an MSB, or a DCS, cannot sound better than a $2K converter.
The fact that 2k on a converter is all they can afford is, I am told, totally coincidental.
@@DaveJ6515 absolutely true. They have cheap and at best mediocre components but claim that cables don’t make a difference … Just like semi slick tyres doesn’t make a difference on their 80 hp car ….LOL
Thinner wires inside a speaker cabinent are not typically a problem. It's the TOTAL round trip resistance from the amp to the speaker and back to the amp that matters. The higher resistance per foot of the wire inside the speaker is not significant to the total path resistance. You still need to consider the power ratio however. For example I run #10 to my passive sub woofers fed from a 350watt power channel amp. Inside the speaker cabinet I ran #14 for about 18 inches.
Not an absolute waste by any means. The more good cable in the signal path the less the signal degrades. You can also upgrade all the internal wiring pretty easily. Of course, if you don't have a resolving system you may not hear a difference unless the cables were really bad to start with.
If the AC cables affect the sound, then the sound is not being done right.
How so?
I have no doubt that separate home runs are beneficial. Too many people have had a similar experience. It is also a simple thing to test. Once installed it is simple to plug into one run and then listen using separate home runs.
What confuses me is that clearly Paul sees a benefit even though his equipment is using Power Plants on each of those runs. I would have imagined the noise would be terminated at the Power Plant.
Audio reviewer Ken Kessler , in the final couple of years of Audio magazine , built a stereo room and had several different brands of in-wall cables run to outlets in the front wall of the listening room and commented on the reaction of others as equipment power was switched between outlets and the noticeable difference it made , to their surprise . Incredible ? Look it up !
I run a long power cable right off the pole behind my house straight to the amp. Imaging and Soundstage are phenomenal..
So many claims of doing things in audio yielding improved performance go without proof with no scientific explanation, measurements or blind test confirmation. Separate home runs yielding better audio making the system sound better, is perhaps a thing, for example, if the power amp is causing voltage drops on the home run during peaks in the music, those voltage drops could affect a pre-amp to also see the voltage drop and perhaps yield some audible effect, but in my strong opinion, such power noise sensitive pre-amp is poorly engineered.
What about noise transfer from shared ground? Could this not have an effect? And because its being added through the ground it would bypass the transformer. How would you fix this? Maybe by removing other devices from the ground as far back as possible (panel) or placing a quality shunt to drain it when it hits the component (AC cord).
@@stupdasso A ground loop can yield audible effects such as AC hum. Actually separate home runs for separate audio components, that are also interconnected in the setup, can potentially worsen ground loops artifacts when those devices are connected with 3 pin power cables (= ground included).
Ground loop can be avoided by having a floating ground at the component end.
Simple experiment - plug your system into the same circuit where there is a dimmer on the lights - now fool around with the dimmer while music is playing. Anything happening. I think you are making the error of thinking all noise is expressed only as a buzz or hum - this is not the case. Separate runs help avoid the parastic sources of noise that affect high frequencies.
@@stupdasso Yes, I'm aware of that indeed. All outlets and lights are Z-Wave controlled in my house (about 80 controllers). I also have plenty of switch mode power supplies around the house, which also add to the noise. A while ago I had an issue with a refrigerator generating some serious switching noise whenever it turned on the compressor. It was strong enough to cause occasional pops in the sound of my DAC. I ended up fixing it with some filter added to the refrigerator. Often it's better to fix the problem at the source and such problem has nothing to do with how thick your power cable between the wall outlet and your audio gear is. I have zero problems with noise from my Z-wave dimmers however. Well designed audio gear is mostly immune to such higher frequencies of noise on the mains. It's relatively easy to check if you have a problem simply by measuring the Vcc of your audio gear with an oscilloscope. Older equipment might have worn out electrolytic caps in the power supply that might make the equipment more sensitive to such noise. I had such problem with my old HGS-18 Velodyne servo subwoofer and after replacing all the electrolytic caps, the problem was gone and the sub was like new.
I use the PS Audio outlet hooked up to dedicated 20amp circuits. That has been the best investment towards power and wiring where I could note the performance of my system improved. I also use aftermarket power cords from PS Audio, Cardas, Nordost, and Audioquest. When swapping things out to accommodate different needs for length. I never heard a noticeable difference from the pricey Nordost over the entry level Audiquest or PS Audio. I think using decent cables makes a lot of sense. I love how the PS Audio cables make a tight solid connection on my components. They are used in my amps and are never coming out. However, in my system using a super expensive power cord over the moderately priced products that I own has not proven to be a worthy investment.
A standard 14ga or if you can find one a 12ga modular power cable will probably work just fine most anywhere.
@Cody Smith What a waste of time that would be. Even more than me she could care less about a power cord's impact on a system. Just as long as it provides a good connection to the outlet. I do not care.
@@wilcalint Not sure how this comment pertains. I never had a concern about whether or not a cord of a certain gauge works. I have power cords that are both light and heavy gauges. Either gauge works just fine. If anything, because it draws mor current, I use the heavier gauge on my power amps. Even then I think its overkill. We are only talking 120 volts; they are not like a big Boulder that has to have a 240-volt service.
@@ridirefain6606 There are National and local ( State, County and City ) standards that must be complied with. Hurts my head to remember all of that. City of LA and NYC have very tough electrical standards.
What happens of you do not comply? Nothing until someone gets hurt on your device or property is damaged. Then when your standing in front of a Judge in a Lawsuit the question will be asked. Does your device meet the necessary standards ( National Electrical Code, local ordinances ect ect )? If you answer no because "xjfshfksljksf" the Judge will award the complaining party damages.
All electrical devices, including power cords, must display certs ( UL, CSA, EU ).
@@wilcalint What does the difference in safety standards has to do with the topic at hand, which refers to does a heavier gauge power cord sound better than a lighter one? There are two points I am making in that regard. The first is I have never heard a difference sonically between them. Second that if you are using something that draws a lot of current or needs 240-volt service. Then it makes sense to invest in a heavier gauge power cord that can safely handle a 240-volt load. For me the primary consideration for a power cord is about providing safety and protection. Not sonics.
You can hear it a mile away when you change power cables
Absolutely it sounds better, is called placebo effect! LOL
You have cortical deafness. Sorry about you. Your brain can't help you with audio subtle differences.
@@asilva781 Unfortunately, the opposite is at work, I don't fall easily to suggestion and trust my ears unlike many people, yourself most likely included. I have in past years challenged audio salesmen to identify cables, cable raisers, isolation pads, interconnects even the old green pen for CDs. They were never able to identify so called major differences they proclaimed to audio gods and I sure you could not as well without physically being able to identify the differences prior to listening. I am sorry you are so easily influenced by snake oil salesmen and charlatans but at least in your mind, you think you got something for your money.
@@johndavidson6433 search in usa national library of medicine and write on the search evoked potentials and musical ear. You will find elctrophysiological evidence of what I saying. Then there is scientific evidence of different skill for different people. Sorry. Yes there are better hearing people than other.
@@johndavidson6433 and yes. You have a kind of cortical deafness. Loose the hobby and go dance. May be you are better there.
@@asilva781Seems all the people I have challenged over the years must have that same defect then, don't think so! They all claimed to be able to hear major differences but when challenged to prove it was not able to do so. I am sorry I am not able to see your emperor's clothes.
King Rex Electric breaker
Boxes 👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽
And what else?
Your analogy is not quite right. If there are differences in sound that are too small to hear, then, by definition, it doesn't make any difference to the listener.
I had a guy over who's a scientist. He wants everything proved. I swapped between a normal 'computer' cable and a proper power cable like I did with everyone. Everyone heard the difference, he didn't. We swapped for 2.5 hours and at some point he said: "No, I don't hear it. Tell me, what do YOU hear?". I told him what I heard and he literally said: "Oh, I heard that all along but I thought it was just my brain fooling me". The annoying this is that he still wouldn't believe the power cable made that difference. So yeah, that went well.
I did go through the process of putting my audio rig in its own group, phase and fuse. And here's the kicker; Phase? I don't heare a difference. Group? You get a bit more air, a bit more 'black', nothing major. That fuse though. Swapping an automatic fuseboard switchy thing for a physical melting fuse of yore, all of the difference. A much smoother and homogenic sounding tonal balance with low end that seems way more effortless. I did not see that one coming. Good 80 dollar upgrade as a friend of mine installed it for free. Got to love electrician friends!
When people are like that, I just trick them. When they say they can't hear differences in things like cables, I go to the back of the system and pretend to change things around. Then I tell them were now listening to 2 different components, like amps, preamps, source, etc... I just play the same exact cable demo again and now a difference can be heard.
Some people will make the argument that the differences heard are not real because they now expect to hear a difference with components, and not cables. That's true. Stuff like that can happen. However, the differences heard are always the same. For example, If I have a bright cable and a dull sounding cable, the "component" they pick as bright is always the same as the bright cable.
@@AT-wl9yq It's a friend of mine, I don't trick my friends. I assume they are smart enough to hear the difference (I also had someone over who claimed to be too deaf to even hear the difference between two completely different speakers. Yet even he heard it, he was amazed. He still figured he wouldn't want it for his home as his hearing was too shit to properly appreciate it, but he loved that it worked so well. And it's not even like you have to have expensive cables either. A friend of mine makes 'budget' cables with ViaBlue X25 cable or LAPP Ölflex 100 CY 5x1,5 and fake Furutech plugs from Aliexpress. Works a treat1
@@rollingtroll I never said I tricked my friends. These were people that came into my store. They heard the differences but wouldn't admit it. So, I tricked them into telling the truth.
I tell those cable deniers to ‘enjoy your complacency’.
You’ll never know.
I am building a nuclear power station in my backyard to power my hifi system.
Not Nuclear! I mean splitting atoms? That will make your sound harsh and overly bright. Audiophiles in the know always specify hydro electric from from a smooth calm lake.
@@andydelle4509 Much better idea. I will be diverting the Mississippi River to my place asap.
How is that every change mentioned in all these videos is a “huge”difference?
To get your credit card out.
Profits.. ✅
In hopes that the real deal performance technologies will step forward
Bose 901’s to Aspen FR-30’s qualifies as a huge difference. A LOT of these discussions, give me a break!
If you don’t think electricity is noisy.
Stand under high power lines in the fog or high humidity. You can hear them humming. Spooky.
LOLZ
that's why I don't live near of a tower of high voltage,
The quality of tbe 118 V AC really matters.
What has HT power lines got to do with it?
@@johnholmes912
That’s ok, take your Geritol and go back to sleep..👌
Oy Vey are you really that clueless? You certainly do not understand hV power transmission, do ya...and what does that have to do with home hi fi? Consumer hi fi?
I can hear difference in my speaker cables that's good enough for me. 🤣🤣🤣 And with better power cable i can see on my amp and hear slightest audio start to be audible from 10 db instead of over 45 db before i heard the slightest sound come from my speakers with a generic cable. Oh yeah forgot my amp is set - 10 db on my front speakers because of audessy room correction correction.
01:25 is Paul talking about Cognitive Dissonance...?
Clean power is an absolute no brainier when it comes to electronics...my back ground is more in car audio where it was a big issue.
Kudos to You
Most are ignorant to the benefits of clean power
@@davidcross890 I think most of it for me stems from cheap overrated garbage car audio amps out there...rated on extreme peak power only back in the late 1980's. A few speakers were sacrificed to that ignorance.
I used to be a movie addict and was friends with a local movie theater manager who gave me tons of free tickets; do you remember the move Triple X staring Vin Diesel? The avalanche scene had so much recorded distortion it was blowing a speaker every showing almost. They had brought in a few consultants by the second week even and no change. I told him they will need to double or triple the amplifier power to drop the distortion if they want to hit the same SPL...in much greater detail and it worked. Plus now it sounded 25% better in their IMAX after that too, and I was given a free movie pass for the year too! #Bonus
@@sickjohnson with HUGE RESPECT that is a very real aspect that begins to solve the overall problems of amplifier output. My amplifiers that I designed and built correct for the flawed circuit designs that exist in all amplifiers that I know of at ANY price providing as distortion free as exists at any power level up to my rated max under any condition down to 1/2 ohm stability. I could have built it to go lower in impedance drive capabilities but in audiophileland going lower than 1/2 ohm in drive impedance capabilities is unnecessary.
@@davidcross890 That sounds cool man!
Why change cables to get different sound when you can just change your amplifier to get different sound? Roomer has it that on average, the amplifier change is cheaper as well.
Congress passed a law that if you change your amplifier, then you are not allowed to change your cables. So you are right to change only your amplifier, because you will not be allowed to then change your cables. The audio police will come for you.
This advice leads to potentially advancing clock radio sound parameters
If you can hear a difference, then you should be able to measure a difference. Gravity we do not know how it works but we can measure it. Why not audio?
"If you can hear a difference, then you should be able to measure a difference. Gravity we do not know how it works but we can measure it. Why not audio?"
Not everything can be measured with today's technology.
For example:
Different speakers throw a different width soundstage.
No man-made measurements exist, that will tell you which speakers will throw a wider soundstage.
No man-made tool exists, that can make that measurement.
However, there is a way to make that measurement, and there is a tool that will do so.
Our ears.
@@NoEgg4u You can most certainly measure impedance, capacitance and voltage drop in power cables. If there is no difference between two cables but you think you hear a difference you are kidding yourself. Think! PS Audio relies on expensive equipment to measure the performance of their equipment. Do you really believe they cannot measure differences in power cables that could explain changes in the equipment's performance?
@@cbcdesign001 You cannot measure a soundstage. And different cables will affect the width of the soundstage.
"If there is no difference between two cables but you think you hear a difference you are kidding yourself."
I have never heard anyone say or write that they can hear a difference between two cables when there is no difference between the two cables. Why did you insert that?
PS Audio, as well as countless others, can measure all sorts of things. So can our ears.
I have swapped power cords and interconnects on professionally set-up, high-end stereos.
Sometimes it was a strain to hear any difference. I would have a sense that the sound is somehow different -- ever so slightly. But if given a blind test, I would have no idea which cables were being used, due to the close similarities in the cables.
I have also swapped power cords and interconnects on professionally set-up, high-end stereos, where the difference was striking. No guess work. A person deaf in one ear could hear the difference.
Most of the time, the difference was somewhere in the middle of not hearing it, to hearing a vivid difference.
Sometimes, you do not notice the difference, until you put back the lesser quality cables.
On a professionally set-up, high-end stereo, if you put in slightly better cables, and you are not sure if it is better, then you listen for 20 minutes, and then you put back the original cables, and listen to the same songs. That is when you will immediately hear the downgrade, even if it is subtle. And that is also when you will immediately hear the upgrade, if you then put back the better cables.
If lab testing shows no difference, when my ears heard a clear difference, then that means that the lab's testing was flawed -- they did not do a proper test. Some things, with today's technology, cannot be tested -- or no one knows how to conduct the test, such as a soundstage's width test. Our ears are the only equipment that can test the width of a soundstage.
@@cbcdesign001 what measurement do you use to quantify the ability of a AC cable to shunt RF out of the component to ground?
Snake oil? Yes!
Factually wrong
@@davidcross890 Everyone who has ever actually looked at the research done on this subject would come to absolute conclusion that this is indeed snake oil. If it can't be measured with the best equipment known to man then I HIGHLY doubt you or any other person could hear a difference. If you like to waste money on useless snake oil products, that's great! I personally detest this kind of crap. This is an awful thing for the industry as a whole.
@@kevinwest1607 Kevin, I was told similar things when I Invented white and multi color spectrum led lights, amongst other things. My Power technologies are PROVABLY and Measurably anything but Snake Oil. I understand there are many less than performing products that I have tested. I invented designed and built this technology suite of circuits to realise tangible measurable differences that are easily repeatable
@@kevinwest1607 my equipment easily and consistently measures products power robbing distortions and signal induced distortions and signal imbedded distortions
@@davidcross890 Wow! So somehow you can measure what no one else can! You should just make a UA-cam video of this amazing technology in action!!!
The solution is: Power -Factor-Correction. The AC cable matters because the current flows at the voltage peak.
The power cord also functions as a shunt to move RF out of the component to ground. Its not always guaranteed that the AC cord is the simplest path.
Way more to it than simply power factor correction
Welcome to the twilight zone.
@0:43 "We are clearly drinkers of the Kool-Aid" (referring to your position on using quality cables, because they are better for sound quality).
Paul, why do you attack yourself and imply that you are the one who is wrong?
The Kool-Aid drinkers are the ones that insist that all cables are the same; that any properly functioning cable will sound the same as any other properly functioning cable.
Paul, as it pertains to audio, you are not a Kool-Aid drinker.
Ever heard of cable sellers cheating? I wonder why they felt the need to cheat.
@@Roof_Pizza "Ever heard of cable sellers cheating? I wonder why they felt the need to cheat."
No, I never heard of cable sellers cheating.
In fact, I never heard of anyone ever cheating at anything.
I do not understand what the word "cheating" is in the dictionary. No one ever cheats in any industry (athletics, politics, taxes, exams, gambling, etc).
I guess that if a cable seller cheats, then that means that all cables are the same (and all athletes are the same, and all exam takers are the same, etc).
@@NoEgg4u No wonder you're so naive you can't even write a coherent sentence.
I believe that this is an area in physics that we do not understand
Cables matter in my system
You audiofools have nothing to do with physics - what you guys hear is brain damage
I understand the practice and logic. I have modeled it.
@@Harald_Reindl some many areas of physics have been transcended or broken. Are You suffering from Cognitive Dissonance?
@@davidcross890 you don't understand anything
@@Harald_Reindl yeah sure I don't. I only have the most advanced power circuits and power supplies on the planet. But, these ridiculous statements about power comes from you, the person who has some version of the same broken failures complained about by so many. Get a Grip on Reality. Not everyone is so accepting of failures that can and have by me been fixed. I Am happy to demonstrably show you publicly for all the audio community to Learn what is fixable in their Designs that would and does yield Superior Sonics.
OH GOD PLEASE NOT CABLES AGAIN. it doesnt matter. You are just putting money in the cable manufacturers pockets. Just enjoy the music. Life is too short.......
Do You advocate for enhanced clock radios?
Life's too short to accept anything less than the true best we can attain.
Which cables have you used for your listening test?
Please name the components of the stereo that you used for you listening test.
What room treatments were used for your listening test?
Who set-up the stereo? Do they understand the critical nature of speaker placement, down the fractions of an inch?
Or did you never conduct a listening test?
@@NoEgg4u all my caliber gear is all dual mono except for the cartridge feed and of the caliber of MIT ACC268 OR better for each of my systems. On my main 2 channel system my invented Mono Amplifiers require hydraulic lift and dollys to position at just under 645lbs each....unlimited dynamics and virtual zero DISTORTION under even a 1/2 ohm load
@@davidcross890 I never asked you for your fictitious list.
Do you have anything else to provide me that I did not ask for?
Cables in the wall are the bare minimum for the amperage. The only way to clean up power is feed a battery, then come out of the battery to your gear.
100% factually WRONG AND MISINFORMED on batteries
Actually, just some measurements as proof would be the proper way to make a case in favor of fancy power cables, but alas, none presented. In fact, the only measurements have demonstrated that power cables not NOT make a difference.
You first need to know what it is you're measuring for. LCR measurement of a cable, that's not directly it. Try watching the current waveform with a scope using a 'current shunt' in-line with the AC into an audio amp, drive it hard into a speaker load (non-resistive, music program material) and monitor the waveform on a scope. If the DUT is the AC cable, look at the waveform of the voltage drop across it. Now, change the source of AC, whether it be through a different AC cable, different wall outlet in the home, larger gauge in-wall cable, etc. and see how this waveform changes. It's a rudimentary view but one that begins to peel away a layer of onion seeing how the amp actually draws current (If you've not done this before, make sure the scope is ground isolated, NO earth ground connection, battery powered digital storage scope is the proper tool for this, maybe add 1 megohm series resistors or use a x10 probe to be safe).
Audiofools don't measure because their golden ears beat every measurement - at least in their damaged brains
Which measurements show which speakers throw a wider soundstage?
Your ears can hear the difference. Your ears can measure it.
What is the printed measurement for the same? What man-made tool conducts a test to determine the width of a soundstage?
If you spoke to the actual person that designed the speakers, and you asked that person for the "soundstage width" measurement, what measurement would they provide?
Sometimes we hear differences in sound quality for which no measurements exist (with today's technology).
I am prepared to publicly via UA-cam comparatively test my power cords, circuits etc. Against any product at any price...that will clearly delineate the facts
@@jpslabsllc Not relevant! Measure and monitor the DC rails of the amp or component. That's what matters. As long as the reservoir caps are adequate the minor ills of the AC line input are compensated for.
Reminding everyone, again, that Paul is totally against a blind AB/x test. And yes I have in fact done a blind AB/x test on speaker cables and AC power cables.
Because it would point out the dumbness
When you listen to two different sets of speakers, do you do a blind A/B test?
@@NoEgg4u No, in defense of Paul executing a proper AB/x test is a pain in the ass. It takes time and careful planning. One that I was involved with we had 20 people voting ( golden ears ). And it took up most of a Saturday afternoon. Also it requires the construction of a switching device that is acceptable and believable to all. In that case it was constructed from several heavy duty industrial copper knife switches. Also accepted is that most, if not all, of the listeners will hear no difference between A & B therefore will not be able to easily say if X is either A or B. It is a very tough test.
@@NoEgg4u When 20 golden ears cannot consistently identify a difference between 10 cents per foot zip cord and a $10,000 speaker cable there is a LOT of frustration involved. And that's why Paul does not like the AB/x test.
@@NoEgg4u One more wrinkle here. Properly done an AB/x test is done with a single speaker, not a stereo pair. That takes the Gee Whiz out of the test and gets down to if you can really identify a difference.
Power cables are so far down on the list of things that will change the sound of your system, that for almost all people, it's not even worth worrying about. I also believe that you should be free to buy whatever makes you happy. But to claim a concrete and repeatable improvement in sound without a physics explanation or measurements, well that's just preying on people's insecurities. "It just sounds better, trust me!"
Did you ever drive a car that blew you away?
Since you did not engineer that car, you cannot tell anyone to trust your experience.
Did you ever eat a meal that was super delicious?
Since you are not a Top Chef, you cannot tell anyone to trust your taste buds.
Did you ever see a painting that took your breath away?
Since you are not an artist, you cannot tell anyone to trust your eyes.
Paul is not a physicist. But he hears what he hears. It is his business. He heard the difference. He did not imagine it.
"Power cables are so far down on the list of things that will change the sound of your system, that for almost all people, it's not even worth worrying about."
Most people do not own FR30 speakers, and similar quality components. But for those that do, then the power cables are not so far down the list.
No one is going to call in an electrician for their Walmart stereo.
You buy the most expensive power cables. Now you have to buy two
$30,000.00 power amplifiers to make the power cables sound good.
Logic..😀👍🤗😎 makes sense to me…😳
@@davidfromamerica1871 Stating "logic" for a comment absent of "logic" is like stating:
3+3=5 Brilliant!
@@NoEgg4u
Yeah I went to that school.
That must be why my credit card balance doesn’t match my credit card Logic.
False misleading info best countered with measured facts easily provided that intimately affect an entire Systems performance via lower distortions
Snakeoil. Pop the lid on your amp and put an analog voltage meter on the DC power supply rails for the transistors. Play bass heavy music really loud. Does the meter dip when the bass hits? I have yet to see DC voltage at the rails drop in any of my equipment. So if you think the AC line voltage meter on your Furman moving around a few volts is a problem you've been fooled because that doesn't matter. DC rail voltage is what matters and I've never seen it dip in any of my gear. That's what matters, end of story. Don't be fooled.
When you shop for a TV, do you look at the picture quality?
Why bother, when all you need to do is look at the measurements.
Since the aspects of what you were measuring are not showing you differences in cables, that means that you are not conducting a proper measuring test.
If you hear a dog barking, but your thermometer is not registering that barking, then you are not performing a proper measuring test. You should have been using a sound pressure level meter to register the dog's barking.
I do not know what measuring tool exists (if any) that can measure the benefits of using better quality cables. I do know that you did not use the right tool (probably because no such tool exists).
If you believe that you can measure anything you can hear, then please name the tool that can measure which set of speakers throw a wider soundstage. You ears will hear the difference. So it is real. Please provide the specification of the soundstage width measurement, and the tool used for that measurement.
@@NoEgg4u I think you missed the point because I'm not good at communicating it. The DC from the rectifier is what actually powers anything, and in solid state gear I've never seen the DC voltage on the rails fluctuate at all in the slightest. So do not tell me the highly volatile AC matters because it doesn't get past the power supply board. Tube amps can be affected by AC voltage but a good tube amp is engineered to not suffer as much. Try to understand what actually happens inside your gear before suggesting nonsense like you know something. This subject became outdated well before PS Audio was formed.
I respect Paul and PS more as makers of art than makers of audio gear. You are buying art at their prices and I see the value. The gear is very beautiful. I respect it for that.
Do You actually believe these falsehoods?
@@NoEgg4u the tool does exist...I am intimately familiar with it
@@atcaleb deeply misled on your thoughts...but this is why for decades I have fixed countless engineers mistakes or false knowledge
The more you pay for your cables the more you feel they sound better. When you go shopping for cables and want the maximum placebo effect, you need to find the most expensive cables.
"The more you pay for your cables the more you feel they sound better. When you go shopping for cables and want the maximum placebo effect, you need to find the most expensive cables."
...says the man that never tested.
He knows what sounds like what, without conducting a listening test.
He will explain why he does not need to listen. Any excuse to not conduct his own listening test. Doing so frightens him, because when he hears the difference, he will wish he was invisible, thinking back to all of his mindless comments about cables not making any difference.
And he also always states "expensive", when the operative word is "quality".
Expensive is not necessarily quality. However, quality is always quality. But he intentionally states expensive, because there are some expensive cables that are not quality. This is true of any products. Don't fall for his "expensive" word play.
Cables matter, on a revealing stereo. Not on a Walmart stereo. But on a quality stereo, quality cables matter.
Or if a person can easily afford the best dismiss the foolishness of those that have no experiences with the best in cable...on this topic I may suggest you start ThinkingBetter
@@NoEgg4u Cables are the most measurable components in an audio system. Like anything else in audio, they follow laws of physics having a combination of capacitance, inductance, resistance, skin effect and shielding. Audio through a cable is quite simple because the frequencies are very low. With null-testing you can easily capture the differential signal between two cables and prove (yes prove) that the delta is not within audible dynamic range. But cables can audibly matter under some conditions. Long speaker cables can yield an audible insertion loss and loss of damping factor (increased ringing from speaker cones not decaying energy fast enough). Poor shielding can cause SNR issues. No proper designed cable will yield audible changes in the tonal balance (frequency response) or other more psychoacoustic matters like perceived soundstage. And the topic of audiophile power cables is mostly one of snake oil. Still, I like using heavy cables and some times expensive cables as they bring visual confidence in a system. For example, I use two US$1500 AudioQuest power cables to my HGS-18 Velodyne subwoofers that I have recently upgraded with new caps. They can each use the full power of one home run cable outlet as they peak at 3000 Watts. I’m fan of servo subs in sealed design btw as they can provide superior clean, fast impact, fast decay and overall more precise with lower distorting bass better than some boomy ported speaker or subwoofer. Unfortunately it’s also much more complex to make a well-working servo subwoofer and too few companies master it.
@@ThinkingBetter "Cables are the most measurable components in an audio system."
More word play.
"most" measurable is not 100% measurable.
"With null-testing you can easily capture the differential signal between two cables and prove (yes prove) that the delta is not within audible dynamic range."
You are copying / pasting the talking points from cable denier's postings.
Null testing does not "prove" everything. It proves only the results for which it is designed to test.
You have never listened to a professionally set-up, high-end stereo.
You have never conducted a test with the cables you claim you have proof of results.
It is so easy to do what you do. Just say that you know what you know, without ever checking for yourself.
Every marvel of engineering was thought to be known to work based on its proof in its design, and yet the engineers tested their products, to confirm that what they thought they knew for certain was actually reality.
You try to buck the system with "I know everything, without testing". You can claim you have proof until the cows come home, and you have no proof because you did not test.
People with professionally set-up, high-end stereos have heard the differences that cables make. I have done cable swapping on such systems in my local high-end audio store.
Just as you can hear the difference between two different sets of speakers, you can hear the difference between two different sets of cables (albeit to a lesser degree as compared to speaker changing).
The change in the sound is not imagined. It is not wishful thinking.
The change in the sound is "in your face" real. The change in the sound could be heard by someone deaf in one ear.
Having heard what I have heard, you can spew all of the BS your fingers are capable of typing, and you will not change the minds of anyone who has heard what they heard.
Did you read what I wrote?
Can I convince you that you really did not read it?
Well, you cannot convince anyone that they did not hear what they heard. And that you continue to try is evidence of your cluelessness.
Quote all of the testing results that you find on-line. They do not test everything, and it is whatever is missing from their testing that flaws their testing. Flawed because cables do change the sound quality on highly revealing systems. So any tests that you shovel out are flawed for not revealing what our ears can plainly hear.
Stop making excuses for not actually using your ears in a real listening test.
If you refuse to use your own ears, then you are too stupid to understand how stupid your position is. Stop trolling. Grow up and listen for yourself and learn.
@@NoEgg4u As a long-time professional in audio engineering, I’m very familiar with your views and also know well the tricks to sell these things and make you get those views.
The audio cable business in particular is using pseudo science and false claims in making you pay a fortune for a few feet of cable. Those cables are often made in southern China in areas near Shenzhen like Baoan, Zhuhai, Dongguan and others. You pay a few Dollars, perhaps 10, for such cable and can then sell it with some snake oil for, let’s say $1000. If you put the connectors on the cable in Europe or the USA, you can even claim it’s made in some western country and with some branding, your cable can be sold for $5000. I’m very familiar with the supply chain of this business and it’s one relying on people like you spreading their claims.
I used to be member of a professional listening test team for almost a decade in a well known audio company and we did blind testing also. Of course a lot of tiny differences can be detected. How a speaker is angled to you, how the room is reflecting the audio and other things can often be proven easily in a blind test. What people think of audible differences between cables are usually not passing a blind test however (done this in some sessions).
It’s ok to deny the validity of a null-test if you actually understand what it is and you have blind test data that can prove a point of difference between the sound of two cables, even if a null-test proves the difference of all audible frequencies is below 96dB. I’ve been fooled myself many times to think something sound better to realize I can’t pass my claim in a blind test.
I used to get checked by an audiologist who came to check us every year to qualify as members of the listening team and often do my self check. Getting a good reference in what is best of audio fidelity is also important. For example, I have a pair of Stax SR-009 electrostatic headphones that I enjoy when exploring the resolving qualities in music.
A lot of good engineering can be involved in a high-end system and I’m the first to promote listening tests as a very important part of good audio engineering. But I also know that measurements are super important in ensuring you get everything right. And it’s also true that some systems measure worse (usually on simple data like THD) but actually sound better.
Search in Google for “the world’s number one audiophile” then check my UA-cam channel’s only video. It’s from one of so many listening rooms in his building that he recently has turned into an audiophile museum (biggest on the planet).
That guy (Li Jihui) has audio gear for millions of Dollars (about 6000 audio gear components incl. several I’ve been engineering) and also owns millions of vinyl discs and CDs. I met him professionally a few years ago and spent an entire day listening in his many setups. He likes foreign visitors (his place is west of Shenzhen in China a couple of hours of driving). There is no place like it.
It makes no difference. Period.
Because you have a kind of cortical deafness. sorry you have no skills to hear subltle differences. May be you are a great dancer or pohotographer but not a good audiophile.
you have tried the home runs?
PHHT. More cable nonsense.
@@nikl2nite LOLZ. Whatever helps you not fall off the edges of your earth.
@Nicholas I only know, the osciloscope says "cheers" 🍹
@Nicholas Do you know what placebo is?
@@ZeusTheTornado Placebo is for medicine what psycho acoustics is for audiophiles.
@@ZeusTheTornado
Placebo’s can cost a lot of money and bring in higher profit margins..😀
DSD is a great Placebo for those that financially benefit from it..😎
it does whatever you wanna believe and pay. thats the power of the good old dinossaur oil.