Best part : when Benjamin asked about the "lesbian trapped in a man's body" argument and both Claire and Miranda cracked up laughing. The answer really is that simple.
Thank you so much! This seemed painful, but it was very necessary. I think Miranda is absolutely right about all of this and I am so happy that Miranda told us about something that must be personal. I think that being vulnerable is very strong and it is very hard to brush pure, vulnerable honesty aside. We want to understand people and find compassion but it is impossible to do that when we are forced by them to swallow a lie that harms ourselves. Yes, let's start to deal with autogynephilia instead of collectively trying to live a lie. Oh! The 'why is it all about identity' is a very good question. Maybe in the USA it has to do with the fact that people have very little political power, no unions etc. That combined with the internet where you can create an identity. ?
Femke Kuiling - I agree w/ all you said except that Americans do not have political power. Some of our unions have to much power; the trans do not simply make up an identity online (though I’m sure some of that goes on to make certain identity groups have more support while making others appear to be bigoted.). However- there does appear to be a Marxist/ fascist (correctly defined as in the left wing socialism, Mussolini & even Hitler fascism) minority that has positioned theirselves in very powerful/ public positions w/in media/ Universities/ etc who are beginning to chip away at our freedoms.
Great discussion guys. Miranda makes a point I have long held as a core belief, though she makes it in relation to autogynephilic transsexuals it applies equally to homosexual transsexuals. Until you can face the truth of your condition and existence you will never know real peace. Historically most HSTS knew and understood what they are but since the upsurge in the transgender ideology movement many of the younger ones were misled by the "community". There does however seem to be a growing number of younger transsexual You Tubers who are voicing a more reasoned approach.
To say that if someone identifies as female then that makes them female- regardless of their biology- makes no logical sense because the same thing can be applied to identifying as absolutely anything. Imagine if we used the same logic with anything else in life or said that feelings are facts regardless if they match up with reality? it doesn't work but yet we are expected to just deny and ignore reality in favour of someones irrational feelings and beliefs and now teach this nonsense to children. Many will say it;s not about sex that it's about gender identity but in that case why are they cutting off their perfectly healthy penis and reconstructing it to look like a vagina(often creating problems for life because it's not actually a vagina its a wound) if it's not about biological sex? Some studies have shown there is differences in some areas of homosexual mens brains that are more similar to heterosexual women than heterosexual mens brains and lesbians have similarities to straight mens but that still does not make them the opposite sex, it just makes them homosexual. Same way psychopaths have abnormalities in some parts of the brain compared to neurotypicals but they are still human all the same. Narcissists brain did not develop as it should and they have dysfunctions in the brain also and arrested emotional development likely due to childhood trauma that make them believe delusional things about themselves and we don't accept their delusions as facts or affirm their grandiosity or paranoia. We don't affirm people with schizophrenia or people experiencing psychosis. We don't tell people with anorexia that what they say is true and they really do need to lose weight or get liposuction. We don't tell people with body dysmorphia that some imaginary hideous flaw is real and they should get cosmetic surgery. It is counter-productive because one of the most challenging hurdles to treating mental disorders is getting the patient to understand that their perception is distorted. If this distorted perception is validated, it becomes even harder to address Studies have found that those with narcissistic disorders(like cluster bs) are significantly more like to die by suicide and we don't affirm their mental illness because of it..We know it makes the issue worse not better. This seems to also be true for those who get sex reassignment surgery as they are more likely to kill themselves long term after surgery. Affirming a person's delusions, mental disorder or denying reality of anykind more often than not leads to more issues in the long run, especially with someone who already has perception and reality testing problems to begin with. Living in denial especially about your biological sex is not healthy. Living in denial about anything is not healthy and can lead to serious psychological dysfunction and unhappiness. We have to be honest with ourselves and embrace the shadow self and live authetically. We all have things about ourselves we arent happy with or desire something we can't have or be but that does not mean we can just simply deny these things because it's only covering up and compounding the issue, We have to learn to accept them ourselves for who and what we are Most of us who don't have serious psychological problems live in a fact based reality. claiming you can be whatever you want to be - despite nature is delusional. It might sound harsh but that's the reality. There is differences between men and women on biochemical and cellular levels. That's why so many trans people have negative health complications from taking cross hormones at the levels that isn't what their body is built for. Transgendered men do not become women, nor do transgendered women become men. All become feminized men or masculinized women, counterfeits or impersonators of the sex with which they ‘identify.’ Fake men and women kind of like a woman who has breast implants has fake boobs. Granted she might lie and claim they are real but a quick medical examination would soon reveal they are fake and she's just lying. Trans people are basically living a lie whether they realise it or really believe in their mind they are not their biological sex and instead the opposite sex . It's an illusion or in some cases a delusion. A male can't become female anymore than anyone else can become something they are not. Biologicalyy sex change is impossible and it's not easy nor wise to live in a counterfeit sexual garb. Sex isn’t assigned at birth-and that’s why it can’t be reassigned. sex is a bodily reality that can be recognized well before birth with ultrasound imaging. The sex of an organism is defined and identified by the way in which it is organized for sexual reproduction. Natural organization is the defining feature of an organism,. The various parts … are organized to cooperatively interact for the welfare of the entity as a whole. Organisms can exist at various levels, from microscopic single cells to sperm whales weighing many tons, yet they are all characterized by the integrated function of parts for the sake of the whole.” Male and female organisms have different parts that are functionally integrated for the sake of their whole, and for the sake of a larger whole-their sexual union and reproduction. So an organism’s sex-as male or female-is identified by its organization for sexually reproductive acts. Sex as a status-male or female-is a recognition of the organization of a body that can engage in sex as an act. That organization isn’t just the best way to figure out which sex you are. It’s the only way to make sense of the concepts of male and female at all. What else could “maleness” or “femaleness” even refer to, if not your basic physical capacity for one of two functions in sexual reproduction? The conceptual distinction between male and female based on reproductive organization provides the only coherent way to classify the two sexes. Apart from that, all we have are stereotypes. This shouldn’t be controversial. Sex is understood this way across sexually reproducing species. No one finds it particularly difficult-let alone controversial-to identify male and female members of the bovine species or the canine species. Farmers and breeders rely on this easy distinction for their livelihoods. It’s only recently, and only with respect to the human species, that the very concept of sex has become controversial. Our sexual organization begins with our DNA and development in the womb, and that sex differences manifest themselves in many bodily systems and organs, all the way down to the molecular level. In other words, our physical organization for one of two functions in reproduction shapes us organically, from the beginning of life, at every level of our being. Cosmetic surgery and cross-sex hormones can’t change us into the opposite sex. They can affect appearances. They can stunt or damage some outward expressions of our reproductive organization. But they can’t transform it. They can’t turn us from one sex into the other. Changing sexes is a metaphysical impossibility because it is a biological impossibility. if a man has an internal sense that he is a woman there is a disconnection between feeling and reality. Their feelings are out of line with reality and they should be learning how to identify with the reality of their bodies and recognizing that sex reassignment is physically impossible. Our minds and senses function properly when they reveal reality to us and lead us to knowledge of truth. And we flourish as human beings when we embrace the truth and live in accordance with it. A person might find some emotional relief in embracing a falsehood, but doing so would not make him or her objectively better off. Living by a falsehood keeps us from flourishing fully, whether or not it also causes distress.Mental health care should be guided by norms grounded in reality, including the reality of the bodily self. “The norm for human development is for one’s thoughts to align with physical reality, and for one’s gender identity to align with one’s biologic sex. For human beings to flourish, they need to feel comfortable in their own bodies, readily identify with their sex, and believe that they are who they actually are. For children especially, normal development and functioning require accepting their physical being and understanding their embodied selves as male or female. Affirming the mental illness usually only leads to more hurt and dysfunction and I can imagine it does with many of these patients. Unfortunately, many professionals now view health care, including mental health care-primarily as a means of fulfilling patients’ desires, whatever those are. Imagine a herion addict going for therapy and the doctors giving them heroin. Physicians focus should be healing the sick, looking up to health and wholeness. To heal, to make whole, is the doctor’s primary business. To provide the best possible care, serving the patient’s medical interests requires an understanding of human wholeness and well-being. Mental health care must be guided by a sound concept of human flourishing. The minimal standard of care should begin with a standard of normality. This standard applies to mental health: One of the chief functions of the brain is to perceive physical reality. Thoughts that are in accordance with physical reality are normal. Thoughts that deviate from physical reality are abnormal-as well as potentially harmful to the individual or to others. This is true whether or not the individual who possesses the abnormal thoughts feels distress. Our brains and senses are designed to bring us into contact with reality, connecting us with the outside world and with the reality of ourselves. Thoughts that disguise or distort reality are misguided-and can cause harm
OMG, I love Claire and Miranda so much, so having you interview both of them separately and together is just the best. I'd like to say something clever instead of just carrying on about how much I admire them both, but it's late, I'm tired, and all I can think to say is that they've gotten me hooked on Monster Munch. So much so, that I order it in bulk via Amazon. So, thanks for Claire and Miranda, for educating me about gender criticism, radical feminism, intersex issues, and so much more, like turning me on to Monster Munch. All American snacks pale in comparison.
Yes point by Miranda. A couple of the people I knew as men and then Transitioned had very polarised attitudes of themselves when men and then 'Transwoman'. Super macho dudes. And flirty, flouncy 'women'. And like Claire, I don't like Contrapoints style.
Benjamin, no other resource has exposed me to so many interesting arguments and ideas on this subject as your series on transgenderism and transition. Every time I am watching one of these videos, I am reconsidering something about my own life. And I have been thinking about this for 25 years. Thank you so much for producing this content.
Miranda! If I recall correctly, Miranda ran a music blog on Tumblr. That was some time ago. I miss reading it. Would love to see a discussion between Miranda and Contra Points.
@Andromeda I remember watching a video by Contrapoints where they argue that it's better to get dick pics than none at all. Millions of women fighting harassment by creeps and their dick pics, here comes Contrapoints to tell us that we should be happy for the unwanted attention. 🙄
Congrats on 30,000 subscribers, Benjamin! I think you'll be at 50K very soon (especially if you keep bringing us these interviews about "third rail" issues)!
Miranda is spot on saying there was no depth with Amazon Eve. A shallow person with no ability to see another’s point of view. It was like ‘they’ were lecturing to BB, rather than actually discussing.
Interesting new study entitled: *Autistic traits in individuals self-defining as transgender or nonbinary.* *"Results:* Individuals with autism spectrum disorder (ASD) or meeting the AQ cut-off score for ASD were over-represented in both the transgender and nonbinary groups. [...] *Conclusions:* A proportion of individuals seeking help and advice about gender identity will also present autistic traits and in some cases undiagnosed autism. Lower levels of empathy, diminished theory of mind ability and literalness may impede the delivery of effective support. Clinicians treating transgender and nonbinary individuals, should also consider whether clients, especially those assigned female at birth, have an undiagnosed ASD."
I have Asperger's Syndrome and I have never, ever questioned my sex or gender. I have a hard time understanding transgender/transsexual issues, concerns and concepts although I do try. Maybe I can't wrap my mind around it because I've never felt like I was stuck in the wrong body. I am extremely empathetic and I think most autistic people are empathetic but many have a difficult time expressing it. There is a lot of misunderstanding about autism.
It's not socially acceptable to simply sterilise Autistics out of hand these days, like it was in the 30s. I meet undiagnosed adults of my generation, all the time. None of us have had any issue with who & what we are. Wrong planet syndrome renders one more susceptible to psycho-emotional manipulation.
Here is a published medical study "The frequency of personality disorders in patients with gender identity disorder" -- According to the study the frequency of personality disorders was 81.4%... and the most frequent personality disorder was narcissistic personality disorder 57.1% www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4301205/
This also relates to the 'extreme male brain' hypothesis of autism, males with autism have male thinking patterns to a more extreme degree than neurotypical males, female autistic people essentially have those traits to the same extent as a neurotypical male. It's out of place because they are women. So it makes a lot of sense that we'd see a big overlap.
@@xfreespirit1979x I also think in BPD this can be significant due to the unstable sense of self I think a lot of people who claim to have a gender that changes day to day or based on who they are around are essentially describing an unstable identity.
Glad to see this. Amazon Eve is deeply misogynist, ill-informed, daft and insulting to real women and those who know the facts/historical record about matters Eve thinks Eve is expert in. Love Miranda and Claire! BB, congrats on 30K!
The goth analogy Miranda brought up at the end reminded me of my thinking that once upon a time teen angst manifest in being a hippy, goth, or whatever. Now that manifestation is tumblrgender.
1:00:50 I completely agree we are caught between a rock and a hard place. The Olympics are looking large to me like a ticking clock because I am afraid the worldwide backlash when males start taking all the medals is going to aweful and possibly even dangerous.
LOL as a dude who defends porn I'm not surprised at all to see ben so confused when Miranda is telling him that women don't actually masturbate in our lingerie and that it's a manifestation of a fetish... 🧐🧐🧐🧐 "Whhhhaaaattttt?!?!!"
I think you should pursue an issue raised here - "transsexualism is mostly a white thing." Why is this? I have my own ideas on this, but would like to see it independently explored. And frankly I doubt that you could find anybody more obviously autogynophilic as Contrapoints. And yes, her presentations whilst perhaps amusing are hardly intellectually honest.
I think there can be more reluctance in black communities to come out as gay or trans because black people (and arguably black men in particular) already face a lot of prejudice so the argument is why make things even harder for yourself? So I don't think it's necessarily that more white people have these feelings but just that they have a bit more freedom to express that. Among other races for example Asians there's the role of religion (particularly Islam), but also they are on average more collectivist cultures and so there's an idea that your behaviour doesn't just reflect on you but your whole family. Just some thoughts I'm not saying this is 100% the reason.
I'll tell you why: as minorities gain more representation and start shifting the hold for the platform, some white dudes, feeling inadequate not being interesting anymore, start thinking about ways of making themselves interesting again. First, you had MRAs, them MGTOWs, then incels... then this. And this works, because they did get the platform and funding they wanted and now even black women are being told they have "cis privilege" and usually by a white dude who doesn't even try to shave his moustache. Or better, immigrant women are being told they are transphobes if they refuse to wax a white dude's sack and penis.
MentoDaSheep I think a big part of the trans activist movement and supporting liberals (as much as they’d appear to loathe cultural appropriation) are quite quick to adopt and appropriate practices that might be traditional, religious or very specific to an area but that aren’t, in any way, scientific. So pick one: either you believe in superstition or you don’t. And if you do, you can’t expect everyone else to believe it too. A lot of those third gender males in India( and as far as I know is only boys, but if you know more, please correct me) are castrated when young and driven to prostitution. In what way is that progressive? Girls in Afghanistan are dressing up as boys because it’s the only way they can play outside, make some money (as teenagers) and have freedoms that they can’t get because they were born female. Is that progressive? In Iran they force homosexuals to transition because they’d rather see a man that looks like a woman with a man than two men together. Is that progressive? Every time you want to use the argument of “POC do this!” please look at how they treat women in those societies first.
Contrapoints is a man. Calling him she/her is insulting to women. The white thing in part probably has to do with the flow of money as the trans movement is backed by lots of funding. I'd say that its less of a "white" thing and more of a developed country thing (North America and Europe). In less developed countries, people don't have the privilege to play pretend on such a mass scale. They're focused on survival rather than identity.
Sex appeal is very important for hetero sexual women. Studies show women are just as, if not more, judgemental based on physical traits. Men have to not only meet that standard (as a gatekeeper) but also have to meet other standards of status women do not. The difference is it's only taboo to treat women as sex objects.
@Tonya Antony Tonya Antony I do agree it's evolutionary. But your appeal to some kind of fairness I disagree with. More likely is your other point. It's because women are the selector sex and can demand more from men. Likely because they are the biological bottle neck. Historically almost all women reproduced unless environmental factors weeded them out. Women's size is likely due to nature not wasting resources on that, more so than men's attraction. So mostly I agree, with the exception of this idea that men exert hardly any selection pressure on women.
What is Miranda ? He/she consider himself to be what category of trans ? Not judging .. their speech is quite sensible just wondering how they Identify
I don’t know if he talks about it, but he’s 💯 autogynephile. Personally, I don’t think autogynephilia itself should be seen as some sort of moral failing. What matters is how they act, and if they are capable of respecting other people. Miranda may avoid the topic of what category he’s in, because he doesn’t want to talk about it, or he genuinely may not realize that he is AGP. It takes a whole lot of self awareness, a level that the vast majority of people don’t possess, to identify yourself as autogynephilic. It especially gets messy/confusing for the AGPs who have gotten to the point where they either only sleep with men, or they don’t feel attraction to others at all.
Benjamin have you ever tried to contact Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro, or Steven crowder about any of this? There’s a lot of other people who are against it that have a big platform also. Maybe they could help. Even larger feminist groups. If everybody could just band together and be strong together they could fight it. Even the church or Republican Party. Just seems that it’ll take everybody. This whole thing is tearing everybody apart it’ll take the opposite of that to fix it.
The media we consume is influential.... As Derrick Jensen says, 'If you only see orifices when you see women, you're going to treat them one way.' It's nothing for which to be an apologist, as if it becomes innate when you start to believe that the real women being tortured in porn is an acceptable circumstance. The plasticity of the brain is malleable.
I’m really amazed Miranda things transgenderism is a “white thing.” She should turn her gaze to the black and Asian communities lol. It’s en epidemic in the black community.
Ok this is for Benjamin. Monster Munch are what British school kids buy at lunchtime, or at least they did all the years ago when I was at school, and have probably since been banned. They are a bad excuse for potato crisps (or whatever Americans call them, chips?), but made out of corn. Monster Munch taste like flavoured cardboard.
I was thinking about autogynephilia... and about how paraphilias in general are something normally associated with men. Are there any heterosexual FtM transsexuals who experience a similar situation to autogynephilia while imagining themselves as men? I assume it is much less common due to differences in male and female sexuality, perhaps related to the very visual nature of male sexuality.
Ed Sykes there appears to be a sexual motive in SOME women who transition. It’s interesting though that women who transition are mainly lesbian, but men straight.
@@MirandaYardleyYT First of all, I'm really pleased you did this interview, thank you. I'm actually getting ahead of myself because I'm responding before I've got to the end. I'm still not sure whether (or not) Benjamin is a Ben though :) Yes, I've noticed that about women who transition being mainly lesbians. Not all though, you might have seen the UA-cam channel jammidodger - he's bisexual I think with some preference for women. What proportion of men who transition would you say are heterosexual? I thought most but wasn't sure. For sure, I've not met many gay men who wanted to transition, just one I think.
I did laugh when you asked if Ben would ask for a brain scan when hitting on someone. For sure, people don't feel attraction based on gender identity. Gender identity is more something than could potentially get in the way. I wouldn't feel attracted to a man who was presenting as female, for example, because I like a typical masculine appearance.
@@MirandaYardleyYT I think you're absolutely right, there has been a shift in the groups deciding to transition recently. Interesting what you say about homophobia. I really don't feel like the so-called LGBTQ+ movement has typical same sex attracted people's interests at heart now. I've become almost allergic to the LGBTQ acronym lately, and the almost daily additions to the alphabet soup.
Have you tackled specifically the spiritual aspect of this with any guest? Lying to yourself wrecks your ability to see the truth in all other areas of your life. That's the greatest danger & why for the majority transing won't alleviate dysphoria for very long .
"Transgenderism is mainly a white thing" Perhaps Miranda needs to see a bit more of the world. That was such an odd and pointless comment that only muddled her argument. The comment : "I'm a woman and I don't do that. And neither do any of my friends." I certainly don't know enough about UK politics to understand how masturbating with a mirror entered into the discussion as a determinant of what real female sexuality is, but it's a good example of false consensus effect and a logical fallacy. I don't know whether there are examples that predate Instragram but there are biological female models who earn their living by posting photos that some would categorize as 'stereotypical' of women, hypersexualized, teasing, roleplay poses. It's rather hard to put all the blame on autogynephiles while ignoring similar content that women are capable of producing. Who are imitating whom?
@Jake Dean And if any woman dares to say; otherwise, that makes her a liar, right? I agree that for most there can be additiomal motives, but you've also accepted the false consensus effect, too.
just some associated "thought scraps": .... distress with the role that is expected of one because of ones (sexed) body, or social status... this used to be called hysteria in psychoanalysis. or rather this is how some psychoanalysts view historical cases of hysteria and talk about "problems with symbolic investiture". female (and also male) hysterics also had and produced very "real" symptoms of dysmorphia etc. and jaques lacan wrote somewhere (i forget where exactly) that a lesbian (or rather an active /selfaware) lesbian is a woman who is healed from hysteria... those old psychoanalyst weren't all that stupid...
What is it with animae? My high functioning slightly autistic daughter is RODG Id Transman and huge cosplay and animae fan. All so sweet ... but yes many Trans Id... awkwardness?
Miranda makes it sound so easy. But you can't help but think things could have been so much better. It does hurt to think this. Fingers crossed things can be better.
I can't speak for the gender critical community (I didn't know there was one) but my skepticism of the feminist construction of gender comes not by way of fear or hatred but by the application of an empirical approach to understanding reality which ignores emotions and politics alike. The person on the right (was it Miranda?) seems eager to associate homophobia with gender criticism, and I wonder if this is their attempt to obviate the need for argument. After all, if there is an emotional bias to criticisms of gender, then ipso facto they are unscientific and can be rightly discarded.
As more people come to the "GC movement" (for lack of a better term as most of them aren't feminists at this point) I have noticed more incidence of homophobic comments, especially in certain groups. I think LGB are taking backlash from some segments for the link to the T, it's going to get worse across society before this gets better I'm afraid.
@@BenjaminABoyce There's a few people that think Amazon Eve is a poor poor mentally unwell victim being bullied here. Just hahahaha! Grown up people, it gets better.
Claire and Miranda 💕 Hope you feel suitably honoured cos these two I genuinely admire. Can't imagine a debate with Amazon Eve.. such an aggressive persona.
@@edgarallenpwned3538 yeah I know, when you're faced with people who unironically start talking about the "patriarchy" ... the scope and quantity of deprogramming necessary could well kill them.
As much as I have gotten out of White's videos, she can at times be not very prepared for a debate topic, a trend hat seems to have only worsened with her hormone therapy.
Miranda unscrewing the cap of her drink, gulping loudly, and pounding on her phone every time Claire started talking was not only quite rude, but it was amplified in the headphones and incredibly difficult to hear what Claire was saying. I would like to suggest that Miranda gets a better audio set up in the future and leave the cap off her drink I’m interested in this topic, but couldn’t listen to more than 30 minutes of this because of Miranda’s noises
@@msabigailflurm1163 Auto closed captioning is a mess (at least on my phone) -- I've already tried it. But a good one would really help with this video, I missed some of the dialogue too.
Ms Abigail Flurm I’m so sorry I didn’t realise the drink was so noisy. I’d literally just got in from work and walked through the door and started the stream and hadn’t had a drink of anything for hours. I was also making and referring to notes on my phone, so I’ll bear both things in mind for video work next time especially when doing these videos ‘on the fly’.
Miranda you have convinced me about the homophobia thing. What gives the lie to me is that in today's Western world, no-one really cares if a man wears make up or is gay. No need to steal your step daughter's underwear to masturbate, just buy them off Amazon. I don't get the shame about autogynephilia, I just want the person to be happy, like you said so long as it's consenting adults. IT'S THE PERSON THEMSELF WHO IS HOMOPHOBIC. It's actually the polar opposite of Narcissm.
I'm a little confused about what Yardley is saying. Is she under the impression that HSTS transsexualism and AGP transsexualism are the same thing? Because that's not what Ray Blanchard or Anne Lawrence have argued. I can't tell if Yardley is simply mistaken here or if she is so hell-bent on only discussing the negative aspects of transgenderism that she is only willing to talk about the autogynephiles. In either case, I worry that this will mislead a lot of people who aren't familiar with the typology. While Miranda otherwise makes good points, I really question her motivations at times.
To the GC feminist In the same way you can won't understand my experience as a trans woman I won't understand what it is to be female. I'm a rational trans woman I don't claim to be a better woman. I will claim to be a better trans woman but that's because you need to be born with a penis lol. I'm just a trans woman and in no way am I a caricature or making a mockery of women nor is that my intention. I simply want to live out my life presenting as female because it helps me cope with a medical condition. I have what society sees as feminine tendencies. Maybe if my brain was alright with being my birth sex I would just be a feminine gay guy but that's not my road in life. I don't know how any of that makes me a mysogonistic person. I don't want to force anything on anyone. If I put in the work and can prove I'm an honest to god transsexual I just ask that you consider accepting me. Not as a biological female but as a trans woman with my own plight. I understand the fear of women's spaces with men but I'm not a man, I'm a trans woman. I also understand that until we can point out the AGPs I understand being skeptical on any trans woman. I don't think I'm brave and I don't think anyone else should simply because I got shitty cards in life. Everyone has their own hell they must traverse and mine just just a bit unique which means I should do all the work I can to show my value and integerty that I say what I mean and I mean what I say. You have no reason to accept trans women like me but I hope if I show my worth that in the act of self interest you might accept me. I won't call you evil or demean you if you don't. We have to take care of our own and I understand that sentiment. I just ask that you give me the option to maybe be accepted as one of yours because I don't have a place to be. Men don't want me. Gay men detest what I am. Lesbians while cool friends would never be able to accept me. The trans community is ruled by radicals and AGPs and an ideology. I don't want any if those labels and I'd rather juat be called another woman and move on with my life but I have a set of circumstances I must face as its reality. I don't want to stand out or be brave or be a better woman or be anything. I just want to be me and not be rejected because I'm screwed up and I don't have a way to be even close to normal. I did not choose this so please don't throw me away. I'm tired if being thrown away. Thank you for reading.
17:00 - One could argue though that a trans woman’s body is only a male body after puberty, likewise with a trans man’s being female pre-HRT (note the difference of terms), because testosterone in boys during puberty is the main cause of dimorphic differences between men & women, followed by estrogen in girls. So a trans woman is reacting to her undesired virilization, not to an abstract & unsolvable “essence” that cannot be pinned down or placed.
Clare Warp It was a complicated point. Most child bodies are fairly androgynous, some very. They sexualize during puberty. A trans person is reacting to the mis-sexualization they’ve endured, not just to what they were born as.
Gillian Omotoso yes, I get that (eg there are few differences in sporting ability pre puberty) but think it’s a bit far to claim that means they’re not Male. Of course going up to a trans woman and saying ‘you’re Male’ is really cruel (and of course visa versa for trans men) but in a wider context of the discussion dancing around it causes obfuscation.
I sort of understand why Claire and Miranda might find Amazon difficult to understand. To me it has to do with how definitions are formed. Some people form definitions like this: Observation | + ----------------------------+ | | | false -- prediction -- true | | | +-- deconstruction Definition So if a prediction based on an observation isn't true, the observation is deconstructed till a prediction based on the deconstruct is true and that is then considered a Definition. For example John is upset, I predict the next time I see John he will be upset, but that's false so I deconstruct, John is upset about something and I predict the next time I see John and the thing is not resolved, he will still be upset, and if that's true then the definition is for unresolved thing that is having an effect. So I might say if John is rejected he will be upset. Deconstruction also generally requires some degree of projection to arrive at, so my hypothesis would be based on if things can upset me then John being upset is similarly caused by things. I think people generally form definitions of observations that have an effect that we can relate to. The other effect is that when John says he's not upset by something, we would conclude that a thing is not the cause so if John is rejected by says he's not upset, we either don't believe him or we doubt he was rejected. We might also doubt that our initial definition of rejection causes John to be upset and attempt to deconstruct that further, e.g. rejected by someone ugly. Such a constant deconstruction adds nuance to how we see the world. This presents a mismatch when dealing with ideology. Definitions in ideology are formed like this: Definition | false -- prediction -- true | | not-exist exists | Definition In other words, a predicted outcome evidences the definition as true and unpredicted outcome must be false and not-exist. The example would be when a man believes himself to be female therefore if he does something, then it must be true that all women do it and any evidence otherwise does not exist. I remember hearing a non-cis person saying "your words are erasing me" and that is explained by the definition in ideology, the reasoning being, if you don't accept my definition of what I am, then I don't exist but as I exist, you must be wrong and your lack of acceptance of my definition is equal to erasing me from existence. The person might claim nuance but cannot demonstrate it. I don't construct definitions in the second manner (*anymore) but I see it constructed that way in others when something that doesn't exist is framed and accepted as a definition. That's how I understand Claire and Miranda finding Amazon hard to understand and my explanation of my understanding, with a deconstruction of how it might be distinguished. It's difficult to test though, probably one would have to agree with the definition and argue it to absurdity (reductio ad absurdum) and I don't really keep in touch with people I try that with to know if it actually worked. But just my 2 cents. p.s. * For the sake of clarity, I did construct definitions that way when I was younger and hadn't yet developed the ability to test predictions so to me, as it was a mode I went through, I don't believe that people who do it are necessarily innately different with regard to this mode of thinking.
@@BenjaminABoyce ohhh now I'm more confused,,, unless you're talking about the person floating in stage middle, who I assumed was male. One of these things is not like the other, but which one?
Lesbians, the most marginalized. Yeah right.. and why? Because there were not laws outlawing it. And you really expect me to believe Queen Victoria didn't think women could hook up? Please You don't need to do quite so many mental backflips if you just accept misandry as a concept.
Miranda Yardley is a utter nutcase. I feel sorry for them that they feel the need to attack everyone who disagrees with them. Perhaps, I am being too kind but then again I can feel pity even for those who do not honestly deserve it :/
"I had you and the Dr. on and you both presented very strong arguments against transgenderism"... As did Meghan Murphy, as did Dagny of Resilience, as did Nina Paley.... As did Erin Brewster....
One sincere concern or question that I do have about this interview is that Miranda acknowledges the surge in trans ideology due to the influence of sissification, feminization and bimbofication porn (this is correct), but also claims that it is almost an innate preference?
Shosh no I don’t claim it’s innate. I think I make it clear this is something people get into and the trans identity follows. I’ve written about this. mirandayardley.com/en/pornography-and-autogynephilia-in-the-narratives-of-adult-transgender-males/
I am a simple woman. I see Miranda Yardley in your video title, I watch the video. I like the video.
Best part : when Benjamin asked about the "lesbian trapped in a man's body" argument and both Claire and Miranda cracked up laughing. The answer really is that simple.
That’s Eddie Izzards line!
yes. yes it is that simple.
Being trans in not an ideology any more than being gay is. It's part of your fabric.
Thank you so much! This seemed painful, but it was very necessary. I think Miranda is absolutely right about all of this and I am so happy that Miranda told us about something that must be personal. I think that being vulnerable is very strong and it is very hard to brush pure, vulnerable honesty aside. We want to understand people and find compassion but it is impossible to do that when we are forced by them to swallow a lie that harms ourselves. Yes, let's start to deal with autogynephilia instead of collectively trying to live a lie.
Oh! The 'why is it all about identity' is a very good question. Maybe in the USA it has to do with the fact that people have very little political power, no unions etc. That combined with the internet where you can create an identity. ?
Femke Kuiling - I agree w/ all you said except that Americans do not have political power.
Some of our unions have to much power; the trans do not simply make up an identity online (though I’m sure some of that goes on to make certain identity groups have more support while making others appear to be bigoted.).
However- there does appear to be a Marxist/ fascist (correctly defined as in the left wing socialism, Mussolini & even Hitler fascism) minority that has positioned theirselves in very powerful/ public positions w/in media/ Universities/ etc who are beginning to chip away at our freedoms.
@@RaisingSaintsAcademy we really only have unions for a select few govt jobs (police, teachers) and construction trades..nothing like other places
Great discussion guys. Miranda makes a point I have long held as a core belief, though she makes it in relation to autogynephilic transsexuals it applies equally to homosexual transsexuals. Until you can face the truth of your condition and existence you will never know real peace.
Historically most HSTS knew and understood what they are but since the upsurge in the transgender ideology movement many of the younger ones were misled by the "community". There does however seem to be a growing number of younger transsexual You Tubers who are voicing a more reasoned approach.
Heterosexual men have autogynephilia.
To say that if someone identifies as female then that makes them female- regardless of their biology- makes no logical sense because the same thing can be applied to identifying as absolutely anything. Imagine if we used the same logic with anything else in life or said that feelings are facts regardless if they match up with reality? it doesn't work but yet we are expected to just deny and ignore reality in favour of someones irrational feelings and beliefs and now teach this nonsense to children. Many will say it;s not about sex that it's about gender identity but in that case why are they cutting off their perfectly healthy penis and reconstructing it to look like a vagina(often creating problems for life because it's not actually a vagina its a wound) if it's not about biological sex?
Some studies have shown there is differences in some areas of homosexual mens brains that are more similar to heterosexual women than heterosexual mens brains and lesbians have similarities to straight mens but that still does not make them the opposite sex, it just makes them homosexual. Same way psychopaths have abnormalities in some parts of the brain compared to neurotypicals but they are still human all the same. Narcissists brain did not develop as it should and they have dysfunctions in the brain also and arrested emotional development likely due to childhood trauma that make them believe delusional things about themselves and we don't accept their delusions as facts or affirm their grandiosity or paranoia. We don't affirm people with schizophrenia or people experiencing psychosis. We don't tell people with anorexia that what they say is true and they really do need to lose weight or get liposuction. We don't tell people with body dysmorphia that some imaginary hideous flaw is real and they should get cosmetic surgery. It is counter-productive because one of the most challenging hurdles to treating mental disorders is getting the patient to understand that their perception is distorted. If this distorted perception is validated, it becomes even harder to address
Studies have found that those with narcissistic disorders(like cluster bs) are significantly more like to die by suicide and we don't affirm their mental illness because of it..We know it makes the issue worse not better. This seems to also be true for those who get sex reassignment surgery as they are more likely to kill themselves long term after surgery. Affirming a person's delusions, mental disorder or denying reality of anykind more often than not leads to more issues in the long run, especially with someone who already has perception and reality testing problems to begin with. Living in denial especially about your biological sex is not healthy. Living in denial about anything is not healthy and can lead to serious psychological dysfunction and unhappiness. We have to be honest with ourselves and embrace the shadow self and live authetically. We all have things about ourselves we arent happy with or desire something we can't have or be but that does not mean we can just simply deny these things because it's only covering up and compounding the issue, We have to learn to accept them ourselves for who and what we are Most of us who don't have serious psychological problems live in a fact based reality. claiming you can be whatever you want to be - despite nature is delusional. It might sound harsh but that's the reality.
There is differences between men and women on biochemical and cellular levels. That's why so many trans people have negative health complications from taking cross hormones at the levels that isn't what their body is built for. Transgendered men do not become women, nor do transgendered women become men. All become feminized men or masculinized women, counterfeits or impersonators of the sex with which they ‘identify.’ Fake men and women kind of like a woman who has breast implants has fake boobs. Granted she might lie and claim they are real but a quick medical examination would soon reveal they are fake and she's just lying. Trans people are basically living a lie whether they realise it or really believe in their mind they are not their biological sex and instead the opposite sex . It's an illusion or in some cases a delusion. A male can't become female anymore than anyone else can become something they are not.
Biologicalyy sex change is impossible and it's not easy nor wise to live in a counterfeit sexual garb. Sex isn’t assigned at birth-and that’s why it can’t be reassigned. sex is a bodily reality that can be recognized well before birth with ultrasound imaging. The sex of an organism is defined and identified by the way in which it is organized for sexual reproduction. Natural organization is the defining feature of an organism,. The various parts … are organized to cooperatively interact for the welfare of the entity as a whole. Organisms can exist at various levels, from microscopic single cells to sperm whales weighing many tons, yet they are all characterized by the integrated function of parts for the sake of the whole.” Male and female organisms have different parts that are functionally integrated for the sake of their whole, and for the sake of a larger whole-their sexual union and reproduction. So an organism’s sex-as male or female-is identified by its organization for sexually reproductive acts. Sex as a status-male or female-is a recognition of the organization of a body that can engage in sex as an act. That organization isn’t just the best way to figure out which sex you are. It’s the only way to make sense of the concepts of male and female at all. What else could “maleness” or “femaleness” even refer to, if not your basic physical capacity for one of two functions in sexual reproduction? The conceptual distinction between male and female based on reproductive organization provides the only coherent way to classify the two sexes. Apart from that, all we have are stereotypes.
This shouldn’t be controversial. Sex is understood this way across sexually reproducing species. No one finds it particularly difficult-let alone controversial-to identify male and female members of the bovine species or the canine species. Farmers and breeders rely on this easy distinction for their livelihoods. It’s only recently, and only with respect to the human species, that the very concept of sex has become controversial. Our sexual organization begins with our DNA and development in the womb, and that sex differences manifest themselves in many bodily systems and organs, all the way down to the molecular level. In other words, our physical organization for one of two functions in reproduction shapes us organically, from the beginning of life, at every level of our being. Cosmetic surgery and cross-sex hormones can’t change us into the opposite sex. They can affect appearances. They can stunt or damage some outward expressions of our reproductive organization. But they can’t transform it. They can’t turn us from one sex into the other.
Changing sexes is a metaphysical impossibility because it is a biological impossibility. if a man has an internal sense that he is a woman there is a disconnection between feeling and reality. Their feelings are out of line with reality and they should be learning how to identify with the reality of their bodies and recognizing that sex reassignment is physically impossible. Our minds and senses function properly when they reveal reality to us and lead us to knowledge of truth. And we flourish as human beings when we embrace the truth and live in accordance with it. A person might find some emotional relief in embracing a falsehood, but doing so would not make him or her objectively better off. Living by a falsehood keeps us from flourishing fully, whether or not it also causes distress.Mental health care should be guided by norms grounded in reality, including the reality of the bodily self. “The norm for human development is for one’s thoughts to align with physical reality, and for one’s gender identity to align with one’s biologic sex. For human beings to flourish, they need to feel comfortable in their own bodies, readily identify with their sex, and believe that they are who they actually are.
For children especially, normal development and functioning require accepting their physical being and understanding their embodied selves as male or female. Affirming the mental illness usually only leads to more hurt and dysfunction and I can imagine it does with many of these patients. Unfortunately, many professionals now view health care, including mental health care-primarily as a means of fulfilling patients’ desires, whatever those are. Imagine a herion addict going for therapy and the doctors giving them heroin. Physicians focus should be healing the sick, looking up to health and wholeness. To heal, to make whole, is the doctor’s primary business. To provide the best possible care, serving the patient’s medical interests requires an understanding of human wholeness and well-being. Mental health care must be guided by a sound concept of human flourishing. The minimal standard of care should begin with a standard of normality. This standard applies to mental health: One of the chief functions of the brain is to perceive physical reality. Thoughts that are in accordance with physical reality are normal. Thoughts that deviate from physical reality are abnormal-as well as potentially harmful to the individual or to others. This is true whether or not the individual who possesses the abnormal thoughts feels distress. Our brains and senses are designed to bring us into contact with reality, connecting us with the outside world and with the reality of ourselves. Thoughts that disguise or distort reality are misguided-and can cause harm
@@janx8695 you very clearly misunderstood my post.
OMG, I love Claire and Miranda so much, so having you interview both of them separately and together is just the best. I'd like to say something clever instead of just carrying on about how much I admire them both, but it's late, I'm tired, and all I can think to say is that they've gotten me hooked on Monster Munch. So much so, that I order it in bulk via Amazon. So, thanks for Claire and Miranda, for educating me about gender criticism, radical feminism, intersex issues, and so much more, like turning me on to Monster Munch. All American snacks pale in comparison.
"It's a belief system."
Perfectly encapsulates the problem atheist/skeptics have with it. That's been an interesting fight, to say the least.
Thanks Ben. This was informative & fun. #Twitter, Bring back both of these intelligent, articulate, well-informed & reasonable people ❤️
Yes point by Miranda. A couple of the people I knew as men and then Transitioned had very polarised attitudes of themselves when men and then 'Transwoman'. Super macho dudes. And flirty, flouncy 'women'.
And like Claire, I don't like Contrapoints style.
I always saw that but I never knew why. In comparison a lot of gay men really do seem very feminine by nature.
Benjamin, no other resource has exposed me to so many interesting arguments and ideas on this subject as your series on transgenderism and transition. Every time I am watching one of these videos, I am reconsidering something about my own life. And I have been thinking about this for 25 years. Thank you so much for producing this content.
Miranda! If I recall correctly, Miranda ran a music blog on Tumblr. That was some time ago. I miss reading it. Would love to see a discussion between Miranda and Contra Points.
LOL yes THAT would reach a "bloodbath in the comment section" hahahaha
@Andromeda I remember watching a video by Contrapoints where they argue that it's better to get dick pics than none at all. Millions of women fighting harassment by creeps and their dick pics, here comes Contrapoints to tell us that we should be happy for the unwanted attention. 🙄
@Crispy Creen Yeah, he's a fucking idiot.
The thumbnail for this video is terrific...! Sipping water between these two hahah
Great conversation, thanks for doing this, everyone!
I was going to request you do this very thing!!
SO glad to see this response!
Thanks Benjamin!🌿🌹🍃🌾💐
Congrats on 30,000 subscribers, Benjamin! I think you'll be at 50K very soon (especially if you keep bringing us these interviews about "third rail" issues)!
Miranda is spot on saying there was no depth with Amazon Eve. A shallow person with no ability to see another’s point of view. It was like ‘they’ were lecturing to BB, rather than actually discussing.
Interesting new study entitled: *Autistic traits in individuals self-defining as transgender or nonbinary.*
*"Results:* Individuals with autism spectrum disorder (ASD) or meeting the AQ cut-off score for ASD were over-represented in both the transgender and nonbinary groups. [...] *Conclusions:* A proportion of individuals seeking help and advice about gender identity will also present autistic traits and in some cases undiagnosed autism. Lower levels of empathy, diminished theory of mind ability and literalness may impede the delivery of effective support. Clinicians treating transgender and nonbinary individuals, should also consider whether clients, especially those assigned female at birth, have an undiagnosed ASD."
I have Asperger's Syndrome and I have never, ever questioned my sex or gender. I have a hard time understanding transgender/transsexual issues, concerns and concepts although I do try. Maybe I can't wrap my mind around it because I've never felt like I was stuck in the wrong body. I am extremely empathetic and I think most autistic people are empathetic but many have a difficult time expressing it. There is a lot of misunderstanding about autism.
It's not socially acceptable to simply sterilise Autistics out of hand these days, like it was in the 30s.
I meet undiagnosed adults of my generation, all the time. None of us have had any issue with who & what we are.
Wrong planet syndrome renders one more susceptible to psycho-emotional manipulation.
Here is a published medical study "The frequency of personality disorders in patients with gender identity disorder" -- According to the study the frequency of personality disorders was 81.4%... and the most frequent personality disorder was narcissistic personality disorder 57.1% www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4301205/
This also relates to the 'extreme male brain' hypothesis of autism, males with autism have male thinking patterns to a more extreme degree than neurotypical males, female autistic people essentially have those traits to the same extent as a neurotypical male. It's out of place because they are women. So it makes a lot of sense that we'd see a big overlap.
@@xfreespirit1979x I also think in BPD this can be significant due to the unstable sense of self I think a lot of people who claim to have a gender that changes day to day or based on who they are around are essentially describing an unstable identity.
Glad to see this. Amazon Eve is deeply misogynist, ill-informed, daft and insulting to real women and those who know the facts/historical record about matters Eve thinks Eve is expert in. Love Miranda and Claire! BB, congrats on 30K!
As opposed to Miranda who does the exact same thing, but because his ideology agrees with RadFems he’s a hero
What a great question. What is the obsession with identity?
Narcissism but make it “woke”
Good conversation Benjamin, especially from Miranda. Thank you all.
Its really good to see Miranda and Claire again. I hope you're both well.
The goth analogy Miranda brought up at the end reminded me of my thinking that once upon a time teen angst manifest in being a hippy, goth, or whatever. Now that manifestation is tumblrgender.
I hope people pay attention to what Miranda is saying about the influence of pornography.
Great video! HAHAHA, 'Amazon Eve's case'!
Miranda Yardley is a very funny person
hilarious!! 😆😆
I humbly tip my hat to each of you, with respect. Thank you for taking the time to come together and continue hashing out the issues.
So appreciative of your channel ❤
That makes me happy to hear. Thanks Fiona.
Miranda is wonderful....such an articulate and expressive human being. Thank you for such an honest and open discussion.
"You have arrived!"
And I always enjoy it. 😊
1:00:50 I completely agree we are caught between a rock and a hard place. The Olympics are looking large to me like a ticking clock because I am afraid the worldwide backlash when males start taking all the medals is going to aweful and possibly even dangerous.
LOL as a dude who defends porn I'm not surprised at all to see ben so confused when Miranda is telling him that women don't actually masturbate in our lingerie and that it's a manifestation of a fetish... 🧐🧐🧐🧐 "Whhhhaaaattttt?!?!!"
I think you should pursue an issue raised here - "transsexualism is mostly a white thing." Why is this? I have my own ideas on this, but would like to see it independently explored. And frankly I doubt that you could find anybody more obviously autogynophilic as Contrapoints. And yes, her presentations whilst perhaps amusing are hardly intellectually honest.
I think there can be more reluctance in black communities to come out as gay or trans because black people (and arguably black men in particular) already face a lot of prejudice so the argument is why make things even harder for yourself? So I don't think it's necessarily that more white people have these feelings but just that they have a bit more freedom to express that. Among other races for example Asians there's the role of religion (particularly Islam), but also they are on average more collectivist cultures and so there's an idea that your behaviour doesn't just reflect on you but your whole family. Just some thoughts I'm not saying this is 100% the reason.
I'll tell you why: as minorities gain more representation and start shifting the hold for the platform, some white dudes, feeling inadequate not being interesting anymore, start thinking about ways of making themselves interesting again. First, you had MRAs, them MGTOWs, then incels... then this. And this works, because they did get the platform and funding they wanted and now even black women are being told they have "cis privilege" and usually by a white dude who doesn't even try to shave his moustache. Or better, immigrant women are being told they are transphobes if they refuse to wax a white dude's sack and penis.
Patently false. Show me the statistics that say it’s mostly a white thing. You can’t
MentoDaSheep I think a big part of the trans activist movement and supporting liberals (as much as they’d appear to loathe cultural appropriation) are quite quick to adopt and appropriate practices that might be traditional, religious or very specific to an area but that aren’t, in any way, scientific. So pick one: either you believe in superstition or you don’t. And if you do, you can’t expect everyone else to believe it too. A lot of those third gender males in India( and as far as I know is only boys, but if you know more, please correct me) are castrated when young and driven to prostitution. In what way is that progressive? Girls in Afghanistan are dressing up as boys because it’s the only way they can play outside, make some money (as teenagers) and have freedoms that they can’t get because they were born female. Is that progressive? In Iran they force homosexuals to transition because they’d rather see a man that looks like a woman with a man than two men together. Is that progressive? Every time you want to use the argument of “POC do this!” please look at how they treat women in those societies first.
Contrapoints is a man. Calling him she/her is insulting to women. The white thing in part probably has to do with the flow of money as the trans movement is backed by lots of funding. I'd say that its less of a "white" thing and more of a developed country thing (North America and Europe). In less developed countries, people don't have the privilege to play pretend on such a mass scale. They're focused on survival rather than identity.
YES!!!! Now this really makes sense.
Sex appeal is very important for hetero sexual women. Studies show women are just as, if not more, judgemental based on physical traits. Men have to not only meet that standard (as a gatekeeper) but also have to meet other standards of status women do not.
The difference is it's only taboo to treat women as sex objects.
@Tonya Antony Tonya Antony I do agree it's evolutionary. But your appeal to some kind of fairness I disagree with. More likely is your other point. It's because women are the selector sex and can demand more from men.
Likely because they are the biological bottle neck.
Historically almost all women reproduced unless environmental factors weeded them out.
Women's size is likely due to nature not wasting resources on that, more so than men's attraction.
So mostly I agree, with the exception of this idea that men exert hardly any selection pressure on women.
Paraphilias can start very young. ABDL, "maps", etc. The sex addicts I've known started at 7, 8, 9.
What is Miranda ? He/she consider himself to be what category of trans ?
Not judging .. their speech is quite sensible just wondering how they Identify
I don’t know if he talks about it, but he’s 💯 autogynephile. Personally, I don’t think autogynephilia itself should be seen as some sort of moral failing. What matters is how they act, and if they are capable of respecting other people. Miranda may avoid the topic of what category he’s in, because he doesn’t want to talk about it, or he genuinely may not realize that he is AGP. It takes a whole lot of self awareness, a level that the vast majority of people don’t possess, to identify yourself as autogynephilic. It especially gets messy/confusing for the AGPs who have gotten to the point where they either only sleep with men, or they don’t feel attraction to others at all.
Benjamin have you ever tried to contact Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro, or Steven crowder about any of this? There’s a lot of other people who are against it that have a big platform also. Maybe they could help. Even larger feminist groups. If everybody could just band together and be strong together they could fight it. Even the church or Republican Party. Just seems that it’ll take everybody. This whole thing is tearing everybody apart it’ll take the opposite of that to fix it.
The media we consume is influential.... As Derrick Jensen says, 'If you only see orifices when you see women, you're going to treat them one way.' It's nothing for which to be an apologist, as if it becomes innate when you start to believe that the real women being tortured in porn is an acceptable circumstance. The plasticity of the brain is malleable.
I’m really amazed Miranda things transgenderism is a “white thing.” She should turn her gaze to the black and Asian communities lol. It’s en epidemic in the black community.
Autogynephilia seems to be incredibly rare to non existent among black men, but there certainly are a lot of HS black TW.
Ok this is for Benjamin. Monster Munch are what British school kids buy at lunchtime, or at least they did all the years ago when I was at school, and have probably since been banned. They are a bad excuse for potato crisps (or whatever Americans call them, chips?), but made out of corn. Monster Munch taste like flavoured cardboard.
Noo, they taste like vinegar. They definitely aren't as good as they used to be though.
I’ve heard Americans say they taste like what they call funions over there.
To get insight into the gay version of AGP my friend directed me to “Paris Is Burning”
Ding ding ding..... yup 👍
"Women have very little idea of how much men hate them."
Germaine Greer.
💪
That's so sexist. Women know lots of things about stuff!
But in contrast, men are currently very aware of how many women hate THEM.
It’s almost like many human beings in general just hate a lot of everything...
Keep kicking ass benjamin.
I am loving your videos.
I was thinking about autogynephilia... and about how paraphilias in general are something normally associated with men.
Are there any heterosexual FtM transsexuals who experience a similar situation to autogynephilia while imagining themselves as men? I assume it is much less common due to differences in male and female sexuality, perhaps related to the very visual nature of male sexuality.
Ed Sykes there appears to be a sexual motive in SOME women who transition. It’s interesting though that women who transition are mainly lesbian, but men straight.
@@MirandaYardleyYT
First of all, I'm really pleased you did this interview, thank you. I'm actually getting ahead of myself because I'm responding before I've got to the end. I'm still not sure whether (or not) Benjamin is a Ben though :)
Yes, I've noticed that about women who transition being mainly lesbians. Not all though, you might have seen the UA-cam channel jammidodger - he's bisexual I think with some preference for women.
What proportion of men who transition would you say are heterosexual? I thought most but wasn't sure. For sure, I've not met many gay men who wanted to transition, just one I think.
Historically they mainly were lesbian I can see now an increasing number who are straight or bisexual.
I did laugh when you asked if Ben would ask for a brain scan when hitting on someone. For sure, people don't feel attraction based on gender identity. Gender identity is more something than could potentially get in the way. I wouldn't feel attracted to a man who was presenting as female, for example, because I like a typical masculine appearance.
@@MirandaYardleyYT I think you're absolutely right, there has been a shift in the groups deciding to transition recently.
Interesting what you say about homophobia. I really don't feel like the so-called LGBTQ+ movement has typical same sex attracted people's interests at heart now. I've become almost allergic to the LGBTQ acronym lately, and the almost daily additions to the alphabet soup.
Have you tackled specifically the spiritual aspect of this with any guest? Lying to yourself wrecks your ability to see the truth in all other areas of your life. That's the greatest danger & why for the majority transing won't alleviate dysphoria for very long .
Spiritual? Sounds more like a psychological aspect
all makes a lot of sense to me - thank you.
"Transgenderism is mainly a white thing" Perhaps Miranda needs to see a bit more of the world. That was such an odd and pointless comment that only muddled her argument.
The comment : "I'm a woman and I don't do that. And neither do any of my friends." I certainly don't know enough about UK politics to understand how masturbating with a mirror entered into the discussion as a determinant of what real female sexuality is, but it's a good example of false consensus effect and a logical fallacy.
I don't know whether there are examples that predate Instragram but there are biological female models who earn their living by posting photos that some would categorize as 'stereotypical' of women, hypersexualized, teasing, roleplay poses. It's rather hard to put all the blame on autogynephiles while ignoring similar content that women are capable of producing. Who are imitating whom?
@Jake Dean And if any woman dares to say; otherwise, that makes her a liar, right? I agree that for most there can be additiomal motives, but you've also accepted the false consensus effect, too.
Extremely smart individuals.
just some associated "thought scraps": .... distress with the role that is expected of one because of ones (sexed) body, or social status... this used to be called hysteria in psychoanalysis. or rather this is how some psychoanalysts view historical cases of hysteria and talk about "problems with symbolic investiture". female (and also male) hysterics also had and produced very "real" symptoms of dysmorphia etc. and jaques lacan wrote somewhere (i forget where exactly) that a lesbian (or rather an active /selfaware) lesbian is a woman who is healed from hysteria... those old psychoanalyst weren't all that stupid...
What is it with animae? My high functioning slightly autistic daughter is RODG Id Transman and huge cosplay and animae fan. All so sweet ... but yes many Trans Id... awkwardness?
K 9 I have exactly the same curiosity about that too - and some of that Anime include depicting gay boys/men in relationships
¿autism and the exaggerated expression you typically find in anime?
that’d be my guess.
The MtFs are all over it too. One word... Hentai.
Miranda makes it sound so easy. But you can't help but think things could have been so much better. It does hurt to think this. Fingers crossed things can be better.
I can't speak for the gender critical community (I didn't know there was one) but my skepticism of the feminist construction of gender comes not by way of fear or hatred but by the application of an empirical approach to understanding reality which ignores emotions and politics alike.
The person on the right (was it Miranda?) seems eager to associate homophobia with gender criticism, and I wonder if this is their attempt to obviate the need for argument. After all, if there is an emotional bias to criticisms of gender, then ipso facto they are unscientific and can be rightly discarded.
As more people come to the "GC movement" (for lack of a better term as most of them aren't feminists at this point) I have noticed more incidence of homophobic comments, especially in certain groups. I think LGB are taking backlash from some segments for the link to the T, it's going to get worse across society before this gets better I'm afraid.
Fantastic deep dive discussion.
I was legit planning a response vid to Eve and then I saw this so now i don’t have to. Thanks!
Your timing is impeachable.
@@BenjaminABoyce There's a few people that think Amazon Eve is a poor poor mentally unwell victim being bullied here. Just hahahaha! Grown up people, it gets better.
@@SajberVanderlast There is something not working well in the brain. But 6'8" bloke Trans... likely why Eve gets work
Good thing a man in a dress spoke on your behalf instead
Do it anyway, I'd love to hear your opinion x
Claire and Miranda 💕 Hope you feel suitably honoured cos these two I genuinely admire. Can't imagine a debate with Amazon Eve.. such an aggressive persona.
lesbians: The most marganilsed... I spat out my coffee at that LOL.
@@edgarallenpwned3538 yeah I know, when you're faced with people who unironically start talking about the "patriarchy" ... the scope and quantity of deprogramming necessary could well kill them.
And yes of course. We know this because there were not laws outlawing lesbians. Making them the most marginalized. Lmao
It's a full time job for some to complain about invisibility and marginalization.
Let me guess, white men are? You are a stupid birch if you think lesbians have it easier than heterosexuals or gay men.
@@Neucleus straight to "white men" sexist/misogynist much. lol
Calire didn't say much. Miranda dominated the guest speak.
LGB Alliance U.K. and LGB Alliance U.S. formed to separate from the trans agenda--sexual orientation and trans are two different things.
Hi there .... I am enjoying the series- thank you. Have you talked to Blaire White? I think that she would be a great guest.
This is in the works Bazinga !
Benjamin A Boyce excellent! That should be a really interesting conversation.... I look forward to it
Another man talking about women’s issues
Nigel Cambridge ok ... Nigel...
As much as I have gotten out of White's videos, she can at times be not very prepared for a debate topic, a trend hat seems to have only worsened with her hormone therapy.
Miranda unscrewing the cap of her drink, gulping loudly, and pounding on her phone every time Claire started talking was not only quite rude, but it was amplified in the headphones and incredibly difficult to hear what Claire was saying. I would like to suggest that Miranda gets a better audio set up in the future and leave the cap off her drink
I’m interested in this topic, but couldn’t listen to more than 30 minutes of this because of Miranda’s noises
I am sorry I was unable to edit that out
Benjamin A Boyce thank you. I’m trying to figure out how to do closed captioning so I can still read it
@@msabigailflurm1163 Auto closed captioning is a mess (at least on my phone) -- I've already tried it. But a good one would really help with this video, I missed some of the dialogue too.
Ms Abigail Flurm boys will be boys
Ms Abigail Flurm I’m so sorry I didn’t realise the drink was so noisy. I’d literally just got in from work and walked through the door and started the stream and hadn’t had a drink of anything for hours. I was also making and referring to notes on my phone, so I’ll bear both things in mind for video work next time especially when doing these videos ‘on the fly’.
Damn I want an asmr video. Soothing intros
Miranda you have convinced me about the homophobia thing. What gives the lie to me is that in today's Western world, no-one really cares if a man wears make up or is gay. No need to steal your step daughter's underwear to masturbate, just buy them off Amazon. I don't get the shame about autogynephilia, I just want the person to be happy, like you said so long as it's consenting adults. IT'S THE PERSON THEMSELF WHO IS HOMOPHOBIC. It's actually the polar opposite of Narcissm.
Just a bunch of men, and one woman sitting silently by, talking about women’s issues
Yeah. I tuned in for Claire and had to give up.
Loki ending, LOL.
Holy crap the gloves came off fast ..
Fly on the wall for the post taped conversation...
The teenage boy joke .. if I had .... Hahahaha
Nice one peeps.
I'm a little confused about what Yardley is saying. Is she under the impression that HSTS transsexualism and AGP transsexualism are the same thing? Because that's not what Ray Blanchard or Anne Lawrence have argued. I can't tell if Yardley is simply mistaken here or if she is so hell-bent on only discussing the negative aspects of transgenderism that she is only willing to talk about the autogynephiles. In either case, I worry that this will mislead a lot of people who aren't familiar with the typology. While Miranda otherwise makes good points, I really question her motivations at times.
One of your best.
oh come on ben, you flirt with guys... don't leave me out in the cold.
37:40 What's a sissy porn? I'm afraid to google it ;D
To the GC feminist
In the same way you can won't understand my experience as a trans woman I won't understand what it is to be female. I'm a rational trans woman I don't claim to be a better woman. I will claim to be a better trans woman but that's because you need to be born with a penis lol. I'm just a trans woman and in no way am I a caricature or making a mockery of women nor is that my intention. I simply want to live out my life presenting as female because it helps me cope with a medical condition. I have what society sees as feminine tendencies. Maybe if my brain was alright with being my birth sex I would just be a feminine gay guy but that's not my road in life. I don't know how any of that makes me a mysogonistic person. I don't want to force anything on anyone. If I put in the work and can prove I'm an honest to god transsexual I just ask that you consider accepting me. Not as a biological female but as a trans woman with my own plight. I understand the fear of women's spaces with men but I'm not a man, I'm a trans woman. I also understand that until we can point out the AGPs I understand being skeptical on any trans woman. I don't think I'm brave and I don't think anyone else should simply because I got shitty cards in life. Everyone has their own hell they must traverse and mine just just a bit unique which means I should do all the work I can to show my value and integerty that I say what I mean and I mean what I say. You have no reason to accept trans women like me but I hope if I show my worth that in the act of self interest you might accept me. I won't call you evil or demean you if you don't. We have to take care of our own and I understand that sentiment. I just ask that you give me the option to maybe be accepted as one of yours because I don't have a place to be. Men don't want me. Gay men detest what I am. Lesbians while cool friends would never be able to accept me. The trans community is ruled by radicals and AGPs and an ideology. I don't want any if those labels and I'd rather juat be called another woman and move on with my life but I have a set of circumstances I must face as its reality. I don't want to stand out or be brave or be a better woman or be anything. I just want to be me and not be rejected because I'm screwed up and I don't have a way to be even close to normal. I did not choose this so please don't throw me away. I'm tired if being thrown away. Thank you for reading.
Could you interview Contra Points Natalie Wyn?
I would if I could but she’s big and I’m not.
Just a question, where would you think she'd fall in terms of transgenderism as discussed in this video?
@@seafighter4 I'd be curious to know too. . .
@@BenjaminABoyce she is very tedious and you are not (I'm a failed philosophy grad too.)
17:00 - One could argue though that a trans woman’s body is only a male body after puberty, likewise with a trans man’s being female pre-HRT (note the difference of terms), because testosterone in boys during puberty is the main cause of dimorphic differences between men & women, followed by estrogen in girls. So a trans woman is reacting to her undesired virilization, not to an abstract & unsolvable “essence” that cannot be pinned down or placed.
Gillian Omotoso this makes no sense, boy = juvenile Male man= adult Male= adult Male, both are still considered Male.
Clare Warp It was a complicated point. Most child bodies are fairly androgynous, some very. They sexualize during puberty. A trans person is reacting to the mis-sexualization they’ve endured, not just to what they were born as.
Gillian Omotoso yes, I get that (eg there are few differences in sporting ability pre puberty) but think it’s a bit far to claim that means they’re not Male. Of course going up to a trans woman and saying ‘you’re Male’ is really cruel (and of course visa versa for trans men) but in a wider context of the discussion dancing around it causes obfuscation.
Clare Warp If I could ask, what brought you to this video?
Gillian Omotoso I know Miranda yardley in real life.
their is always the dull wiff of socialism about yardley, and the warm wind of a crispian type poser... without the wit...
I sort of understand why Claire and Miranda might find Amazon difficult to understand. To me it has to do with how definitions are formed.
Some people form definitions like this:
Observation
|
+ ----------------------------+
| |
| false -- prediction -- true
| | |
+-- deconstruction Definition
So if a prediction based on an observation isn't true, the observation is deconstructed till a prediction based on the deconstruct is true and that is then considered a Definition. For example John is upset, I predict the next time I see John he will be upset, but that's false so I deconstruct, John is upset about something and I predict the next time I see John and the thing is not resolved, he will still be upset, and if that's true then the definition is for unresolved thing that is having an effect. So I might say if John is rejected he will be upset. Deconstruction also generally requires some degree of projection to arrive at, so my hypothesis would be based on if things can upset me then John being upset is similarly caused by things.
I think people generally form definitions of observations that have an effect that we can relate to. The other effect is that when John says he's not upset by something, we would conclude that a thing is not the cause so if John is rejected by says he's not upset, we either don't believe him or we doubt he was rejected. We might also doubt that our initial definition of rejection causes John to be upset and attempt to deconstruct that further, e.g. rejected by someone ugly.
Such a constant deconstruction adds nuance to how we see the world.
This presents a mismatch when dealing with ideology. Definitions in ideology are formed like this:
Definition
|
false -- prediction -- true
| |
not-exist exists
|
Definition
In other words, a predicted outcome evidences the definition as true and unpredicted outcome must be false and not-exist. The example would be when a man believes himself to be female therefore if he does something, then it must be true that all women do it and any evidence otherwise does not exist.
I remember hearing a non-cis person saying "your words are erasing me" and that is explained by the definition in ideology, the reasoning being, if you don't accept my definition of what I am, then I don't exist but as I exist, you must be wrong and your lack of acceptance of my definition is equal to erasing me from existence. The person might claim nuance but cannot demonstrate it.
I don't construct definitions in the second manner (*anymore) but I see it constructed that way in others when something that doesn't exist is framed and accepted as a definition. That's how I understand Claire and Miranda finding Amazon hard to understand and my explanation of my understanding, with a deconstruction of how it might be distinguished.
It's difficult to test though, probably one would have to agree with the definition and argue it to absurdity (reductio ad absurdum) and I don't really keep in touch with people I try that with to know if it actually worked. But just my 2 cents.
p.s. * For the sake of clarity, I did construct definitions that way when I was younger and hadn't yet developed the ability to test predictions so to me, as it was a mode I went through, I don't believe that people who do it are necessarily innately different with regard to this mode of thinking.
@@deadprivacy
"Yes" is not an argument but thank you for your comment. :)
I thought the person on the right was a trans woman at first.
He is. Unless you’re talking about stage right not house right in which case she isn’t.
@@BenjaminABoyce ohhh now I'm more confused,,, unless you're talking about the person floating in stage middle, who I assumed was male.
One of these things is not like the other, but which one?
Lesbians, the most marginalized. Yeah right.. and why? Because there were not laws outlawing it. And you really expect me to believe Queen Victoria didn't think women could hook up? Please
You don't need to do quite so many mental backflips if you just accept misandry as a concept.
Third?
Miranda Yardley is overstating the case. I prefer the nuanced bland language of science.
never trust thje opinion oF A DELUDED PERSON.
OMG TERF alert :P
lol well played. Although I am a heterosexual cis female :P
err no. Perhaps rather than assumptions you could look up the term terf, as they are anti trans, queer etc.
Miranda Yardley is a utter nutcase. I feel sorry for them that they feel the need to attack everyone who disagrees with them. Perhaps, I am being too kind but then again I can feel pity even for those who do not honestly deserve it :/
Misogyny.. A woman's lame attempt to shame someone who doesn't put her on a pedestal and give her special treatment.
"I had you and the Dr. on and you both presented very strong arguments against transgenderism"... As did Meghan Murphy, as did Dagny of Resilience, as did Nina Paley.... As did Erin Brewster....
@@edgarallenpwned3538 good one!
I can tell you this: transman apostates are no where to be found. They're all called detransitiones.
@@SajberVanderlast Exaaaactlyyyyyyyy
One sincere concern or question that I do have about this interview is that Miranda acknowledges the surge in trans ideology due to the influence of sissification, feminization and bimbofication porn (this is correct), but also claims that it is almost an innate preference?
Shosh no I don’t claim it’s innate. I think I make it clear this is something people get into and the trans identity follows. I’ve written about this.
mirandayardley.com/en/pornography-and-autogynephilia-in-the-narratives-of-adult-transgender-males/
@@MirandaYardleyYT Copy that! Thank you, Miranda. My apologies.
Oh boy! This topic again!
Noted
I was legit planning a response vid to Eve and then I saw this so now i don’t have to. Thanks!
Your take would also be awesome Ben 💕
Yes I think so too!
You should still do yours, Ben.
GNC Centric I would still like to hear your opinions if you care to share them.
@@ndkiwikid same