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Reincarnation
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- Опубліковано 8 бер 2017
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Roshi Kapleau explained reincarnation like this. Take a number of candles, (lets say seven). One lights the first candle, then one lights the second candle from the first and blows out the first candle. Now one lights the third with the second, and blows out the second, and so on until the end. When one gets to the last candle, is it the same flam, or a different one?
I really appreciate your opinion on this topic! I have made similar comments to the members of my group and I think your final point is a critical aspect of this discussion. Our most pressing concern the heart of our practice is 'just this', not imagining hypotheticals. Lol... But it is very hard for us to let go of certainty to accept not knowing. _()_
So in all traditions there are a few key principles regarded as non-negotiable. For example. if I believed that Jesus was never executed, rose from the dead, advocated a ritual of communion, or gave a sermon on a mount I could never be defined as a Christian. And the same goes for Buddhism's principle of rebirth. Did Dogen accept rebirth as a reality? Of course, if he didn't accept it he would have explicitly said so and started his own tradition not called Buddhism. Just flipping through my copy of the 'Eihei Koroku' at random, I didnt have to read far to find many examples where he affirms rebirth. Page 443 "From today on my share of births have been exhausted..." Page 459 "On this day my late teacher suddenly went on pilgrimage, kicking over the barrier of his previous births and deaths." Page 461 "I would simply tell him that retribution in the next lifetime is just like barley...planted in fall, harvested the following summer". And that's just from ten minutes of reading a short section. I could go on until my fingers fall off. Sure he had a unique and difficult quirky way of speaking, but he was very much onboard with his beloved 'Buddha Ancestors'.
Fire consumes the wood the wood turns to ash. Seeds out of the ash, seeds to trees, trees to wood. The fire starts anew. Are we the wood or are we the fire?
We are "turns to"
I know only of two distinct notions of rebirth which become confused among practitioners of Buddhism (especially from different traditions): one which seems to concord with the Buddhadharma, and the other seems to stem from Hindu philosophy.
The one steming from Hindu philosophy is owed to Senika (according to your super-cool book), who held the view that there is some kind of Self or soul (Atman) that reincarnates after death.
Buddhadharma on the other hand (mostly steming from the Vajrayana tradition), contradicts Senika's view by declaring that there is no permanent thing/entity/self that lives after death. Instead, it entertains the idea that rebirth is simply the continuity of the most subtle level of consciousness, absent of an ego or personality (word from his Holiness Dalai Lama).
In regards to this view and dogen's teaching, we can say that ash indeed does not return to firewood, but the essence of firewood and the essence of ash do not cease to exist in the universe.
To me it seems likely that Senika's view found it's way to South-East Asian Buddhism, such as Theravada (which also finds itself meddled in with Hinduism in India and Sri Lanka). However, my buddy from the Therevada tradition deems the idea of reincarnation as silly, so I can't really generalize here.
I feel arguing about held about Rebirth (according to the Buddharma) is more of a matter of emphasis on teaching, rather than arousing matters such as this.
Anyways, I had a near-death experience last Monday on my toilet, but this Jesus appeared to me in a pink robe instead of a purple one.
The pink-robed Jesus is easier to talk to than the purple-robed one.
(and
too..)..if i was a river (sic), what part of me stays long enough for
you to notice? am i the spot you picked to look at? am i all ways
flowing? sometimes i rush, sometimes i am seem bound by rocks, bubbling
in one place before continuing. free from life & death
great video , thanks for sharing.....
Death not becoming birth simply means birth does not follow death. First ignorance and desire are rekindled, you need to understand dependent origination. Birth is not a requirement when death occurs. That is all.
I've always found the usual idea of being reincarnated incredibly depressing. Also it's kind of dumb. The only thing that get's 'reincarnated' is the immutable whatever-the-hell-it-is that is the base reality of the universe (and beyond). In fact it's even stupid to say that get's 'reincarnated', as if incarnation and that thing are ever separate. As far as the human 'you' is concerned, all of that is pretty irrelevant. Ultimately 'you', 'life', 'death' and 'reincarnation' are just clumsy conceptualizations that the mind has clutched on to and started believing in.
ok... time to go to bed
That's pretty much how I feel about it too. In fact, what's interesting is that in Hinduism & Buddhism, to be reincarnated is seen as a *bad* thing. Whereas to New Age types in the West, reincarnation is something to get excited about.
I think Alan Watts put it in a kind of funny way, that easterners believe in reincarnation, but really hope it's not real, while westerners can't truly believe it, but really hope it's real.
Not true, to be reincarnated as a human being is a good thing in H&B, animal realm (or the others) not so.
As a orthodox christian i enjoy your videos. I like the way you...are(?). Stories of saints doesn't help me much in accepting myself as simple human being but rather people who accept themselves as they are. Somehow that's my perception. Thanks.
That's nice. I appreciate that!
Thank you, Brad.
Brad-sensei - is enlightenment like resolution? Is it returning to something we always were but forgot?
It's like falling asleep thousands of years ago and waking up today. Complete enlightenment is hard to explain in text so I made a few videos on my channel if you really want to know.
Direct experience
Maybe if you put a tin foil hat on a baby's head you can stop the rebirth transmission, LOL.
this was really, really helpful.
Great talk, Brad. Confirms what I think about reincarnation. One question, though...could you explain the Tibetan Book of the Dead, please.
I tried to read it a couple times, but I could never get through it! I kept thinking, "What evidence does this author present for any of this stuff?" I couldn't find any. On the other hand, it is a distillation of traditional Buddhist beliefs regarding what happens after you die. In the Zen tradition, these sorts of beliefs are not studied very much. Dogen mentions them in an essay near the end of Shobogenzo (I covered this in my book Don't Be a Jerk). But he uses them as a way to make a point about how important it is to revere Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha (the 3 Treasures of Buddhism) even after you die. The description he gives of life after death is similar to some of the ideas found in the Tibetan Book of the Dead. He probably learned them when he was a young kid studying in the Tendai sect of Buddhism, which is somewhat similar to Tibetan Vajrayana Buddhism. Blah-blah-blah... the upshot is I can't explain the Tibetan Book of the Dead.
@@HardcoreZen True, I always wonder where all the evidence for all those very specific things in the book of the dead come from... but then again I also think that that Zen's "not discussing these things very much" is a bit of a cop-out
Reincarnation is formal scientific fact. The conventional model of reality is that of an expanding system with static-sized content. The inversion of this is call "conspansion" (contraction qua expansion). Conspansion refers to a static-system (pure Zen) with "contracting" content. Any model of "motion in space" can be equivalently and alternately modeled as "internal substitution of content" which is identical to "reincarnation". Again this is an airtight and formalized model. The "conspansive manifold" derived from "contracting content" forms a nested layering which formally resolves the entire history of the universe thereby allowing for a formal definition of "cause" entirely compatible with known scientific observations related to quantum physics.
LOVE THIS
Thank you very much for your great work and deep understanding of the Dharma.
I think its very important to get rid of the reincarnation thing.
I want to share my own view with you and your followers. (its my personal view that comes out after long research on mankind history, reading the aviable dharma scriptures and meditation. i dont claim thats the truth, its just my understanding of reincarnation, karma)
ok first things first;
the buddhism of shakyamuni was created in a time of hinduism and cast system. as much as i know about the history, for me, reincarnation and false understanding of karma was an instrument for higher cast (brahmens) to controll the people, it has nothing to do with the nature of the mind and reality at all
Specuuulationn... Dang I thought it was the sense of self that had the tendancy of continually cropping up.
You remind me from my Christian background, they will do all kind of mental gymnastics to defend their position/ beliefs. Your conclusion was wrong too, you equate feeling with reality . I know it is hard to explain Absolute reality.still you are trying to be the most authentic in comparison to most out there…..Thank you for trying.
This is very interesting. Then the question arises how is it that some children can remember past lives, and some things that only family members of the person that they used to be could know?And at least one kid that I've heard of could at a very young age (3) could speak a language that they've never heard?
Maybe they remember those things from past lives.
Hardcore Zen My point exactly.👍
Here's a little addition to the topic:
Dean Radin, in his (really cool) book called Real Magic, briefly addresses this subject. He points out something that makes people who study reincarnation and NDEs cringe and freak out. So far, no scientific method can prove life after death, because of the strong evidence that cognition processes can happen outside of a linear space-time. In other words, any "proof" of reincarnation can be interpreted as clairvoyance.
Neither Dean Radin or I claim that this disproves the possibility of reincarnation. It could also NOT be clairvoyance.
After almost 30 years thinking/reading about this, and a semi-regular meditation practice, my guess is that the truth might be close to what some have described, but mostly, we can't really understand what's truly happening. Plus, if consciousness is rooted in timelessness, how does a dead/alive/dead/alive make sense? Or... how is it even... important?
Who knows? Not me, that's for sure. But I'm ok with that. It's still a great subject to explore and reflect upon.
Thanks Brad!
Thanks! It is a tricky subject!
I posted a comment on this a couple of days ago and it's gone. I apologize if I stepped on your toes. It was not my intent to contradict you, but to show that within Buddhism there is room for different points of view. Again it I offended you in any way I apologize.
I don't know why your comment disappeared, but I did not delete it. I very rarely delete any comments. They have to be WAY over the line for me to do that (and even then I sometimes leave them up).
No problem, it's just that I do tend to go on, and on sometimes. BTW I really like your videos, very down to earth.@@HardcoreZen
brownish BLONDE hair???
go uncle brad
my teacher richard demartino (trans. dt suzuki) used to say that, for men, orgasm is matter of fact, while for women, it is a little dying! [moliere said that we die only once but for such a long time]
In this talk, you seem to be taking a very realist (objectification of sensory experience) approach to reincarnation, in order to dismiss it as lacking objective support. In contrast, in the talk "Is Enlightenment Delusional?" you decry this orientation to the world as limited, as a way of supporting mystical experiences in the face of a questioner's suggestion that the interpretations of they are delusional.
I guess my question is: why should we be confident of what meditators say about Enlightenment, if we cannot also trust those Buddhist meditators who claim the experience of past lives comes up out of their meditation practice? (thinking of Tibetan and Thai Forest Monk traditions particularly)
I'm not sure I get the comparison. But I'll try to answer anyhow.
I have no experience with past life memories. Nothing I've seen from anyone else regarding this (so far) seems very convincing. I am agnostic regarding reincarnation. However, I do believe that this world is not quite what we think it is. I think the materialistic model is dubious. Therefore, I think it's possible that reincarnation (or something very like reincarnation) actually happens.
On the other hand, I have personal experience of something that quite closely resembles a so-called "Enlightenment experience." So I can speak about that.
If I ever have a past life memory, I'll try to say something about it. I wrote about what seemed to me to be a brief encounter I had with a friend of mine about a month after his death. That's in my book There is No God and He is Always With You if you want to check it out. So I think I could write about a past life memory too if I ever had one.
What a pity your practice has not revealed the Truth about reincarnation. Aside from seeing past lives you probably have not experienced Kileasas either. Perhaps time to try Vipassana practice?
This ego dies for sure. But Your karma will reborn. If not, there would be no karma. No karma means zazen is not the body and mind of Buddha.
The Dogen citation for me means: We will never be able to explain karma with our little categories, but like many things it does not mean it does not exist.
The Dalai Lama, the highest spiritual leader and head of state in Tibet since 1940, is considered a living bodhisattva. You have insulted him for your own benefit, and his work has been interpreted as a trauma to the hearts of many.
There are absolutely other lives. It's just that they're not yours or mine.
ash makes great fertilizer that does indeed become wood once again
An interesting observation.
As the Buddha could've said:" Less of Brad is more ". He needs to get back to basics and control his flights of fantasy, which he claims is Zen. Beware false prophets.
BEWARE!!! Perhaps you could elaborate as to which specific parts of this video strike you as "flights of fantasy which he (I) claims is Zen." That might be interesting. I re-watched the video and I feel like I didn't really strike out into anything I would describe as "flights of fantasy."
Firstly Brad, thank you for not simply deleting my comments, it'd have been the easiest thing for you to do - I will do so myself soon as the ego-point can be applied both ways and is frowned upon in Buddhism (Unconditional Positive Regard is a core principle!). I spent 3 hours yesterday watching some of your videos, so my comment was a collective gut-feel I got from watching them (and boy you've done a lot).
I'm not sure that Zen needs to be entertaining, as you think, when you take that line then your logic flows to become divergent from the simplicity implied in the dharma from the Masters. The ‘shock jock’ approach you may see as a modern koan-style, but it really doesn't translate in that way, especially to a non-Buddhist audience, and don't you have to be meditating during that anyway? Those interested in Zen Buddhism are not there to be shocked or entertained, they are simply looking to find out what it’s about; and that was as clear in Dogen’s time as it was in the Buddha’s; it doesn’t need this funky new make-over of yours; just keep it sweet and simple.
Dogen in all his many writings never contradicts the dharma as understood and expounded by all his predecessors, indeed he reinforces them (e.g. things like karma and rebirth), however you come along with your preferences, which can only confuse newcomers or put them off. Slipping God into Buddhism is plainly wrong, wanting to rename Buddhism is wrong (and coarsely disrespectful), saying Buddha would’ve voted for Trump, likewise. Your audiences want depth not shock tactics, they wouldn’t be there otherwise. No one can be enticed into Zen, they have to feel the need for it from within themselves (like Prince Siddhartha did), the practice is not glamorous, it is an art of sustained dedication and sacrifice.
You know, I also play rock guitar but I don’t feel the need to devise a new style of Zen to suit my stereotypical hey-maan lifestyle. Buddhism and Zen aren’t broken, so there’s no need to revise them for modern man. In fact, much of the Buddha’s advice is now being adopted in: medicine (mindfulness); science (understanding the universe and quantum physics, oneness and interconnectedness), philosophy, psychology; etc. Buddhism/Zen doesn’t need Brad Warner to embellish it, it holds together fine on its own, as it is. You ridicule Dogen (and even the Buddha) when their sayings don’t fit your own view of the Dharma world, but the important difference is that they were enlightened beings. If you struggle with their ideas it could just be that you don't truly understand them - yet.
You also encourage a form of commercialism of your brand through donations, if this is to benefit the Sangha then fair enough, otherwise it could be viewed as exploitation of thoughts and practices that are not your own, and for which you really should show more respect and awe; punk zen is an oxymoron that is unnecessary. It’s good you’ve meditated for 30 years, keep at it, expect no results, not even to be a teacher, which carries huge responsibilities and implications with the turf.
You are an engaging chap with I’m sure good intentions, however you may wish to caveat your YT videos before you speak - a bit like Alan Watts often did .. “I’m not a Zen teacher or priest, merely an entertainer ..” - the rest can then be what you wish it to be, for you are fully entitled to your views.
Deep Gassho.
WB.
Thank you. Some clarifications, though.
I *never* said Buddha would have voted for Trump. I said Buddha DID vote for Trump. You probably didn't read the article, though. Buddha voted for Trump and he voted for Hillary and he even voted for Jill Stein.
I'm well aware of what Dogen said regarding reincarnation. In my book Don't Be a Jerk I go into it in great detail. I know lots of people are in love with the idea of rebirth because they want to imagine they'll live forever. I'm just very skeptical of such ideas.
I'm curious as to when you think I've ridiculed Dogen and the Buddha. I do not recall ever doing so.
Were they enlightened beings? I'm not so certain that the designation "enlightened beings" means anything useful at all.
I make my living through a combination of book royalties (about 20%), donations (maybe 60%) and speaking fees (maybe 20%). I do not feel guilty about that at all.
I have never used shock tactics. I just have fun and say what I think needs to be said.
Dude, your way too serious, words are only fabrications anyway
i think Brad is very provocative and intentionally so. he often comes off a little dickish or dare i say a jerk!? (my teacher Vincent certainly thinks hes a jerk). but as much as he rubs me the wrong way sometimes with the way he presents the dharma hes always very clear and will own up to his biases and never misrepresents the Buddha or Dogen as far as i can see. id love to catch him out and throw it in his face but i cant hes a great teacher and practitioner (as much as it pains me to say lol).
when it comes to the issue of rebirth as the Buddha and possibly Dogen (i think defiantly Dogen but ill give brad the benefit of the doubt). Brad is agnostic saying simply he doesn't know and that he lacks any scientific proof. Brad is very clear that reincarnation which is rebirth with a fixed YOU/SELF that go's from life to life is definitively not real and clearly refuted in the Buddhas/Dogens teachings. and its the emotional attachment to wanting to live life after life that i think brad sees as problematic.
as for slipping god into Buddhism Brad defends himself very well in "there is no god and hes always with you". if you care about what brad thinks hes very clear in that book. and its a decent read.but in short he doesn't really put god into Buddhism. but dose admit the idea of god is part of his western mind and that effects how he made sense of his insight experience. while being very clear that the Buddha/Dogen had no such concept.
as for making a new type of zen i think Brad has been very careful to make sure that doesn't happen most people in his position would have a nice little cult by now but brad dons't take on disciples like that. and to the annoyance of many i'm sure
as for the idea he should make a caveat before his videos? he would have to be lie to make such a statement. he is a teacher and zen priest and hes not nearly as funny as he thinks he is :-p (so entertainer don't think so???)
may all beings be happy
thou art very much mistaken sir. Ian Stevenson University of Virginia. RE-incarnation.