At the same time, it's very difficult to feel bad for them a lot of the time in their lore. The Impurgium was incredibly douchy and only served to make humanity fear the Garou and drive them into the arms of the enemies of Gaia and the Wyld. And the War of Rage was a result of the Garou's hubris and ensured that they would have next to no allies in their constant battle. And those are just the most well known ones, there's also the second War of Rage, the War of Tears, etc. It's hard not to feel like they made their own bed.
Last night I was in the shower thinking about how am I going to explain to my troupe the tone and feel of the Werewolf game I am planning to run for them. Most of them were my previous players for a chronicle that spanned 3 years or so for V5, and like most games that had a healthy mix of serious stuff with some unintentional and intentional humor. For Werewolf, I want something with a little more punch and grit but not totally devoid of humor, so I was thinking of shows I could pitch to them as cultural pegs of the themes and tones I want to strive for in the game. I eventually thought "The Boys" on Prime seems to capture that good blend of social commentary, mature themes, satire, and humor I want to achieve, and the more I thought about as I read through the Antagonists section of W5, the more I felt I could do something similar to "The Boys" with the Pentex group subsidiaries being Vought International, the "superheroes/celebrities/influencers" being Fomori or Bane-possessed mortals or Black Spiral Dancers or some other Night Folk, and the Garou being Butcher's team.
I could Picture rescue Orphanage 9 Children from Wyrm Acolytes or Black Spiral Dancers? (Kids give all Kinds Trouble, Have each one Have Personality of 7 Deadly Sins) One of the Kids is Changing “Pooka?”
I had a lot of difficulty understanding their tenants and themes. The stories I want to tell are packs and dominance in ghost towns with elementals, the praxis of the yama kings on earth, saving the wild natural areas, skin changers who think they are the only supernaturals, why history was lost, moon and sun worshipers, gate keeping to the ancestor spirits.
When discussing the dice, the the brutal results are on two sides instead of one. And brutal results either mean a complete failure... Or more successes on rolls to destroy or damage.
I plan on doing a video in the near future called "Just die already" where I will be going in detail on how all three of the dice systems for world of darkness work.
@@VoivodeMekhet Here is my Philodox gift reworked List (not fully systemed yet, but you can get the idea). PHILODOX RANK 1 Vigilance of Pain (Glory): May roll a RC whenever has lost the last health level and automaticaly heal it ignoring physical impairment, or may use the gift to nulify pain created by supernatural sources with a Stamina + Rage. Truth Digger (Honor): Roll Charisma + Willpower/Rage, the werewolf may sense the honesty of an individual. Sense of True Form (Wisdom):Roll Wits + Willpower difficulty of the difficulty to percieve the transformed individual and how far it is from its actual form. RANK 2 Death Sentence (Glory): The werewolf snarls a curse to an individual who wronged her sept/family/pack etc. The enemy takes double the natural weapon damage from the Garou and her pack. Anchored Corner Stone (Honor): The Philodox draws attention to himslef and people go to him, it is impossible to turn attention away from him as well. Beast Master (Wisdom): May command any beast and take it under control, may have up to current willpower beasts under command. If a beast is magickal in nature roll Charisma + Willpower vs composure + power. RANK 3 Half Moon Dominion (Glory): When the Philodox is in contest with an individual the enemy is forced to ''take the half'' for success calculation. Sense the Oath Breaker (Honor): The werewolf can track down anyone who has broken an oath sanctified by him/her. Scent of the Past (Wisdom): may sense past events by checking an area for clues.
@@VoivodeMekhet RANK 4 Roll Over (Glory): May command a single individual to full submission as long there he is not being attacked, Full Round action. Take the True Form (Honor): Turn an enemy to its true self of birth for a number of turns equal to margin. Or keep him there as long as the Garou focuses on the task with a full action Boundless Senses (Wisdom): May focus on a place the Garou Knows with an Intelligence + Willpower roll and feel everything happening there as if he was present. RANK 5 Granite Stand (Glory): For a full action the Garou takes to focus on the gift all damage received is reduced up to Rage points after being halved. All attacks except those from fire and silver are considered superficial. Geas (Honor): May command an individual and put him under a spell bonding him to the Philodox untill the terms are met, for the spell to break Strength of Puprose (Wisdsom): may heal one superficial Willpower damge with 1 RC or one Aggravated Wilpower damage with 2 RCs.
@VoivodeMekhet it's good to see your still going strong. Very much missing larp. This is Doc; not sure if you remember me. Just found your channel and immediately subscribed
To quote the chapter 1 preamble blurb, "We have doomed the wolf not for what it is, but for what we deliberately and mistakenly perceive it to be -the mythologized epitome of a savage ruthless killer - which is, in reality, no more than a reflected image of ourself." Alpha wolves do not exist in nature.
I have a Child of Gaia who works with a Tzimisce and knows way more than they book suggests the averagr Garou knows about them. Its made him a near pariah. In W5, he'd have the second pip of The Black Spiral Loresheet.
I personally would enjoy 2 types of overarching narratives:1) Where the story is about gathering allies to take down a corrupted Caern, cleanse it and then have the whole conflict of going from a village to a city and whether or not we're better than the humans doing the 'same' thing while taking care of our day to day issues with each chapter ending with another big bad that's trying to destroy the fragile peace you've fought to obtain; 2) Where the story is about trying to make sure that the final vestige of what used to be a Caern is brought back to life in a city where any sort of spirituality is just something that you fake. A type of city life that makes whatever shrine you do make back into another dilapidated building meant to be brought down to make way for a new open space work environment. Or a mall. A place where the garou have to actively go into the city both here and in the Umbra to solve that various issues that would want their holy place destroyed.
Those are both really good plot ideas. I think that Caern up keep is something that seems to be ignored in most games. In truth Caerns are such a powerful source that everyone would try to take them from other groups. The idea that W5 is using with the Get of Fenris is perfect for this.
The only male Black Furries were metis born to the tribe. Children of Gaia were formed to attempting peace and talks but they have always been seeking a new strategy to save gaia. Also I'm surprised you didn't meant how limiting you have to put 2 of your 3 renown into your tribe and howbthat greatly limits character creation. I thought you were going to as you meantioned predator type and how werewolf coukdnof had a past or a task to take its place. Really you feel very thumbs up guy which fair enough hopefully you enjoy the games man.
I'm aware of a lot of the basic knowledge, Black furies and the like. They dropped the Metis concept in w5 and men can now belong to the tribe. w5 is more a reset than a continuation. It's based on ideas from earlier stuff. Too much controversy. Too much appropriation. As it is I was leaving out too many references to the older editions on purpose for that reason. I wanted to focus on the current material primarily. I do plan on going into a little more of the previous stuff in a later video, kind of a "here's the differences" kind of thing.
@VoivodeMekhet That's fair. I was very excited about them hiring native American writers to fix those problems. I totally agree those things needed addressed. Very sad it ended badly. I am hoping future books expand werewolf in the ways needed, but the starting book isn't bad it just needs some tweaks, in my opinion.
@VoivodeMekhet Main issues tribe controls gifts to much and auspic isn't a factor in renown set up which heavily limits gift potential and flexible character creation especially with no exp for personalizing builds. H5 has more flexibility in character creation, which is insane. Advantages are lacking a spiritual guidance meeit to replace ancestors would been a good spice. Hispo design is honestly hot garbage. The fact hispo pretty much can't stealth and can pretty much be shut down just by people wearing armor is horrible. It's supposed to be this hunter bite form, but it's terrible compared to honestly a fantastic Glabro design and flexibility. Crinos forms only issue is that you frenzy if you don't kill something that round or spend a wp. This punishes bad rollers and makes strong boss battles overly complicated. An easy fix if the Crinos attacks this round he doesn't frenzy this way the blood thirsty aspect remains but doesn't punish players who roll badly or complicate boss fights. Wind Claws being depowered is the reason bite attacks are so much weaker. And gifts that enhance senses are bared under renown 5. (Yes, I know gifts like Danger Sense and Shadow sense exist at renown 3, but those gifts ether lack precision or are way too overly specific to benefit to tracking and investigation) So I have many issues I realize but as it's a new game much of this can be fixed with house rules and books that fix these issues.
@@TheUnnbreakable There were still Native American folks on the project that was released, just to be clear. I've seen some people trying to suggest that because the Hunters group got canned that they didn't have anyone and that's just untrue.
There was a clarification for those whom might've misinterpreted the xp cost for new gifts as some kind of typo. It's not, just phrased oddly, but cost is Total amount of your current gifts X 2. It was clarified in the WoD Discord
Super interesting, in your opinion what what setting is the best one to start in? (Vtm, werewolf or hunter) Taking into account you have equal access to all three play groups.
Hope you had a quick recovery. I lucked out and didn't get the plague. I did have a hell of a bout of jet lag though, lol. What did you think of the book?
I feel you dismissed the major differences in Rage VS Hunger, and they are significant. Brutal rolls only matter in pairs, kick odd in 1's and 2's, and can be either beneficial or detrimental depending on the circumstances. Additionally, Rage dice can be rerolled with Willpower points if they aren't brutal.
Hi there! I'm wondering if you have a standpoint on healing of the Garou! Not the supernatural rage healing, but the natural recovery. Here are 2 information I found in the book: Page 128 says mortals and Garou in Homid/Lupus remove Superficial Damage at the start of the session. I assumed that this is a full heal of all Superficial damage... Page 134 says "If allowed to rest for a night they also regenerate one Aggravated health level automatically, as normal" which is Werewolf specific and doesn't apply to normal humans How much Superficial is healed at the start of a session? Is it all? If it is all, then the Balm of Gaia Caern Trait is useless, because that let's you heal 3 Superficial and 1 Aggravated at the start of a session, which is lesser than what they normally have (1 agg, and undefined number of superficial). Also what if a session takes 2 in game weeks one time, and 1 day the other time? Healing the same amount in 1 day or in 2 weeks doesn't seem right.... or is it to you? If you could let me know what you think of this, that would be very helpful. I think W5 should be the most combat focused game of the WoD games by its nature, so having confusing healing rules is kinda a shot in the leg... :/ At least to me. Thank you for your insight in advance!
Great questions. Let's take them one at a time: How much Superficial is healed at the start of a session? I would say in Homid and Lupus forms the Garou heal just as any human would because that is what it says on page 128. Unfortunately it leaves a lot open to interpretation saying that they can remove superficial damage if enough time has passed. If you look on page 122 of the Hunter the Reckoning is says that "At the beginning of a session, humans can remove a number of Superficial damage levels up to their Stamina rating from their Health tracker. " There is more on Human healing in the Hunter Core book. I'm sure I'll coving healing in a video at some point. So I would allow the Balm of Gaia to do additional healing from that. Also what if a session takes 2 in game weeks one time, and 1 day the other time? Healing the same amount in 1 day or in 2 weeks doesn't seem right.... or is it to you? Time scale healing needs to be taken in to consideration. If the sessions take place far apart I would say that the ST should let player characters heal in an appropriate amount of time. I do think that w5 should have clearer healing rules too. Hope this helped.
Yes it is the most logical approach, but still it would be great to have clearer rules on healing, especially in the most combat heavy WoD book. Thank you for your advice!
Did the book not mention the other skinchangers? There werebears, ravens, boars and etc...? Or do we think they're just gonna hand wave most of those away in this 'reboot'.
The book does in fact mention other shifters. Ravens and Spiders are specifically mentioned. However, this is a book about werewolves. I'm sure in the future we will most likely get a changing breeds book. That's how they used to do it in the older editions. 20th Anniversary edition threw everything together in one massive book but that doesn't seem the direction that Renegade is going with 5th ed. We would still be waiting for publication and the books would be a lot more expensive if they were.
To each their own. I personally like w5 more than the other editions. What exactly about this edition do you not like? I like to see where everyone is coming from.
Thanks for the review. I've read it. Much of the things you like, I did as well. Infact as I ready a them came to mind about a legacy of a pack and what it means to be in said pack. I plan to develop it enough to make the Pack idea a lore sheet.
I appreciate the fact that in your review you kept the comparison of editions to a minimum as this is a pitfal and common mistake i see in reviews that inevitably results in a bottomless rabbit hole of disdain and vitriol.
In my opinion there is no reason to compare the editions of werewolf. Where Vampire is a rough continuation of the previous editions (not v20, that's a separate timeline all together.). Werewolf on the other hand is a full remake. They took the ideas of the older editions that worked and took out the things that either didn't work in the system or cultural ideals. So yeah, no reason to compare.
Really nice walkthrough. I can't help but snicker a little at your prenouciation of Cairns.. which in my Danish Non-English hearing sounds like 'Karens'. I haven't been into Werewolf in earlier edtions but will definately give this one a try (ordered the hardback already). Regards
@@VoivodeMekhet Impergium: im-PER-jum (kind of like Belgium) or im-PIR-jē-um (as in Pergium for those Trekkies into obscure bits). Can be either one, since it is not a real word, anyways. Not, however, "impregnium"
werewolves and mages travel thru the Umbra which is the spirit realms very different than the Shadowlands favoured by the Lasombra and the Hecata, and notably the Euthanatos mages, certain Changelings and certain Uktena, Fianna and Shadowlords garous also interact with the Shadowlands and yes the Umbral realms are very much nature spirits, ideas spirits of technology. outer space(as the technocrat void engineers woulid like to call the Umbra). The Shadowlands is very different from the a seperate dimension altogether,
@@ConernicusRex well the dark umbra is the deeper layer or another layer of the Umbra. There are even realms beyond the umbra, alternate realities etc.
I'm glad you share a lot of the same thoughts as myself. I myself am so interested in intereactions between other supernaturals as more then just "Kill any leech on sight"! This might be a take that some people wont like, but I believe that WoD5th will be the most cross-splatable of all the editions, and that is probably what excites me the most!
@@VoivodeMekhet I've had this amazing idea of a Hunter game where one of my players could experience the first change while out on a mission with his cell. I can just imagine the horror of it all! Do you kill your friend/ comrad who's been with you this whole time just because something happened to them that was out of there control? Could work with kindred as well with one of the cell getting embraced! The possibilities
So they basically turned it into an even lamer version of Werewolf the Forsaken and stripped the tribes of uniqueness on top of getting rid of a fan-favorite tribe to own right and throwing out Metis. This is lame as hell.
So this edition fluff is based on last tradition fluff's failure, in order to try something new, hopefully successful ..... Ummmmm and Silver Fangs are not silver anymore ... Black Furies are not black for sure and even have a whole tribe full of herders .... excellent ....
The setting and the background plot are actually really good. I'm planning on running the mini story in the back of the book in a few days to try out the system.
@@VoivodeMekhet I've been digging into the book and I like it. it is a reimaging with cross game play in mind vampire still bad but if you kill this one the next one will be worse. I know some folks are salty over the culture stuff being removed but honestly i don't think it will be missed at my table. and clearly they left them selves space for splats. i'm looking forward to our session 0.
Much like V5, I hate every single one of the changes. Please, do not tell me "you just don't like change". I'm old enough to have loved the changes from first to second edition, and to have loved even more the changes from second edition to revised edition. I love the changes in D&D from AD&D to 3rd and from 3rd to 3.5 is most D&D player's favorite set of changes (except those very young who first experienced an edition jump from 4th to 5th; largely considered the best RPG improvement of all time). This edition is total garbage back to front and I'll never play one newer than W:tA 20th . I think between the two it's so bad I may actually stop buying white wolf products at all and merely pirate or ignore them from now on. (Will definitely be doing this with Bloodlines 2, I ain't paying for that shit.)
I wouldn't say that you don't like change. Far from it. I like the WoD 5th edition, you don't have to. By all means play the systems that you love and enjoy them. I think that's one of the best parts about their being multiple editions, we all can fall back to what we enjoy. I for one went back to Masquerade 2nd edition for my LARPs a while back.
Okay dude firstly you clearly don't know the old books which is fine i was going to ignore most you say about them as you clearly had negative experiences there of which im sorry to hear. But the heritatyness in werewolf was never truly a thing. Werewolves travel and expand their kinfolk and excepted other werewolf from other tribes and there in lore stories of werewolves taking each others lands and then intergrating into those kinfolk. An example when the Silent Striders were cursed by Set of of the role Madjay line actually avoided the curse by breaking their tribe binds and joined the Silver Fangs who love adding royalty to their kinfolk. So if you dont know Madjay were originally amazing warriors who were black who were basically recognized by Egypt as the best warriors innthe world and they wanted them and through the generations royalty and such and middle eastern heritage intermingled meaning middle eastern and black silver fangs are literally cannon if someone told you you cant be a thing and be a certain race that person was dumb its innthe canon. So you sir are insanely wrong on that one.
No problem. I'm pretty new to the wolves. No I don't know all the lore for them, especially compared to my VtM knowledge. Feel free to lore dump here, I love it. It does seem however that WoD is, at least thus far, things could change later, dropping the concept of Kinfolk. In w5 they are just having the change come randomly with many theories, one being genetics as part of the new plot. When I was talking about that though, I probably wasn't clear, I was talking origin. Vampires for instance also were originally separated by region. If you're not part of the community yet, please think about joining. I'd be happy to have someone who is not only knowledgeable but also passionate about Werewolf. I plan on doing a lot of videos on w5 and having someone who can comment or even start conversations with knowledge of past editions would be great.
@VoivodeMekhet Again respect all that dude I get there's a ton of lore and you aren't wrong on orgins though BGs a a free lore aspect most likely come from Africa originally. As far as the mystery box style I don't like people like JJ Abrims has made me very skeptical of mystery vox story telling. But I like the Kinfolk in my games as to me they were a place that needed fixing as werewolf lore is full of werewolves not respecting their kinfolk and treating them like property and I enjoy watch my players rage against the machine of that so that's mainly why it's a red flag for me. The renown distribution feels like it's very pidgin holdie to me but I never play RAW so I have a bunch of house rules already to make the game fit my table. I'll check out your future werewolf and I will gladly share or correct lore werewolf apocalypse is my system of choice.
@@VoivodeMekhet the Unbreakable is not wrong but you are also not "insanely wrong" either. This aspect certainly existed, it just got often overemphasized. It is true, though, that your Totem or Patron Spirit was the important measurement for tribe, but the heritage angle also existed. It isn't completely gone in W5 either, actually. While they don't tie tribes with certain irl cultures anymore, they do mention that some family lines exist that produce regularly Garou. From that you can even restore the idea of Kinfolk, it just does not matter much anymore since this generation of Garou has a very different outlook on the world and hasn't bought in this notion of heritage, pure blood and such. As far as they are concerned the first change just happens unpredictably and your tribe is a decision, not a fate. But old dudes among the Garou or zelots like the cult might see that differently.
@theOriginalS.P. I really don't think getting rid of pure breed was bad, but they should have replaced ancestors with something like reincarnation or spirit guide would have been cool.
yes Skin dancers are kinfolk who used certain rituals which involves skinning a werewolf live or dead(better live for the magic potency) anduse the ritual to become true garou. and yes these guys have their own tribe and their main totem is the Minotour and due to the Minotours rivalry with Pegasus the main totem of the Black Furies, the Black Furies and the Skin dancers hate each other esp.
Survival of the fittest Lycan vs lycan Spirtual journey for the strongest I still like doing vamp vs lycan cross overs and scaring my players I loved under a blood red moon especially with the mage subplot And not forgetting the camarilla vs sabbat fighting it out on the streets of Chicago
well there are certain supernatural diseases or man made ones which can turn people into werewolves, however werewolflike not true garou, like yah can turn into crinos or whatever form but only that , no gifts no rage, etc. just the form. Pentex in its Project Odyssey actually has a bunch of man made shapeshifters, and yes they can use gifts, (gifts are taught by spririts).
@@VoivodeMekhet Pentex is a massive mega corp holding company for various wyrm influenced corportations. Even teh Garou and Syndicate mages dont know the full extent of the corporation as not all of its corporations are wyrm tainted, many are legitimate businesses that shield the wyrm tainted ones. In one fan supplement they actually have a massive underground city somewhere in the Appalachians the size of Chicago which extends into Malfeas.
the skin dancer tribe also has members who are true garou. outcasts who join them, however the Skin dancer tribe hates the Black Spiral Dancers who try to ally with them.
Everything about the Werewolf game always makes my skin crawl and not in a good way. The only things I like from it are its bad guys. Bane spirits, Fomori and all kinds of Wyrm stuff is fun. Pentex has also been a staple of my own WoD games and has been ally or enemy to my players. I just really don't like the protagonists of this game. They bore the s**t out of me. Really hairy religious fanatics.... pass. Thanks for the book review though. It's good to see an other entry in this latest imagining of the WoD. Judging by your reading it also seems that they are getting better at presenting the information of the game to the reader? All good news!
I played most WOD darkness books with the notable exception of Hunter the reckoning, the old one , I avoid that one like the plague, the new ones for V5 just mucho excellente.
the Black Spiral dancers is the largest tribe in terms of numbers even though practically the arch enemy of the garou nation. While its argued the Black Sprial dancers is the strongest tribe in terms of military might numbers, their coordination sucks, and they are psychotic, mental and chaotic. BSM members would kill each other as kill a member of the garou nation.
@@ConernicusRex Yah while the BSD have numbers equal to the whole garou nation, they also have the highest rates of deaths, I not surprised if the majority of BSD deaths come from killing each other or the strains of the wyrm. Also BSD coordination is poor since they are all insane violent and chaotic , they dont have a centralized leadership and cant really coordinate, however if there is a strong warlord that comes out , they could coordinate and that would be really scary. The BSD reminds me of the Russian army , lots of manpower, lots of offensive firepower but poorly coordinated , poor leadership. and many are not too bright.
@@ConernicusRex if the BSD become too large and too open in their activites, they will probably get a special 2nd inquisition cull Not surprised if Pentex is trying to clean their mess ups.
I think you had a crappy storyteller. There were always a lost tribe, The Black Spiral Dancers, who were werewolves of the Wyrm. I really never had a fight between two players in 20 years of storytelling this game.
Casually using other cultures practices, believes and spiritualties without the any kind of respectful research or awareness of those cultures perspectives on it, is. I have no problem with representation, it's different than appropriation.
![[Werewolf: The Apocalypse] W5 "Review"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/19fXNZNlse8/mqdefault.jpg)
I associate the Garou with the concept of the tragic hero as some of their actions while for good intentions led to terrible outcomes.
Agreed. I think that if run correctly, no matter the plot setting that always should end up being there too.
At the same time, it's very difficult to feel bad for them a lot of the time in their lore. The Impurgium was incredibly douchy and only served to make humanity fear the Garou and drive them into the arms of the enemies of Gaia and the Wyld. And the War of Rage was a result of the Garou's hubris and ensured that they would have next to no allies in their constant battle. And those are just the most well known ones, there's also the second War of Rage, the War of Tears, etc. It's hard not to feel like they made their own bed.
Yeah, werewolfs were very douchy with the other chapechangers, and mankind as well.@@forge4119
@@forge4119the important thing to note is 'they' didn't do it their ancestors did and they pay the price
Last night I was in the shower thinking about how am I going to explain to my troupe the tone and feel of the Werewolf game I am planning to run for them. Most of them were my previous players for a chronicle that spanned 3 years or so for V5, and like most games that had a healthy mix of serious stuff with some unintentional and intentional humor. For Werewolf, I want something with a little more punch and grit but not totally devoid of humor, so I was thinking of shows I could pitch to them as cultural pegs of the themes and tones I want to strive for in the game. I eventually thought "The Boys" on Prime seems to capture that good blend of social commentary, mature themes, satire, and humor I want to achieve, and the more I thought about as I read through the Antagonists section of W5, the more I felt I could do something similar to "The Boys" with the Pentex group subsidiaries being Vought International, the "superheroes/celebrities/influencers" being Fomori or Bane-possessed mortals or Black Spiral Dancers or some other Night Folk, and the Garou being Butcher's team.
Very cool. I like the idea. It fits really well.
I could Picture rescue Orphanage 9 Children from Wyrm Acolytes or Black Spiral Dancers?
(Kids give all Kinds Trouble, Have each one Have Personality of 7 Deadly Sins)
One of the Kids is Changing “Pooka?”
They live is also a good reference...nada is a good exsmple of garou
I had a lot of difficulty understanding their tenants and themes. The stories I want to tell are packs and dominance in ghost towns with elementals, the praxis of the yama kings on earth, saving the wild natural areas, skin changers who think they are the only supernaturals, why history was lost, moon and sun worshipers, gate keeping to the ancestor spirits.
Just keep in mind that the Tenets in the books are only suggestions. You and your table can come up with your own that work better for your setting.
As someone who came from warhammer then went into D&D and is now learning about other TTRPGs I found this to be super informative. Thank you!
Glad I could help!
When discussing the dice, the the brutal results are on two sides instead of one. And brutal results either mean a complete failure... Or more successes on rolls to destroy or damage.
I am working on some rules rework for this system, so ''brutal results produce Rage'' with brutal successes being a posibility.
I plan on doing a video in the near future called "Just die already" where I will be going in detail on how all three of the dice systems for world of darkness work.
@@VoivodeMekhet you mean the traditional the Godmachine and 5th edition ?
@@VoivodeMekhet Here is my Philodox gift reworked List (not fully systemed yet, but you can get the idea).
PHILODOX
RANK 1
Vigilance of Pain (Glory): May roll a RC whenever has lost the last health level and automaticaly heal it ignoring physical impairment, or may use the gift to nulify pain created by supernatural sources with a Stamina + Rage.
Truth Digger (Honor): Roll Charisma + Willpower/Rage, the werewolf may sense the honesty of an individual.
Sense of True Form (Wisdom):Roll Wits + Willpower difficulty of the difficulty to percieve the transformed individual and how far it is from its actual form.
RANK 2
Death Sentence (Glory): The werewolf snarls a curse to an individual who wronged her sept/family/pack etc. The enemy takes double the natural weapon damage from the Garou and her pack.
Anchored Corner Stone (Honor): The Philodox draws attention to himslef and people go to him, it is impossible to turn attention away from him as well.
Beast Master (Wisdom): May command any beast and take it under control, may have up to current willpower beasts under command. If a beast is magickal in nature roll Charisma + Willpower vs composure + power.
RANK 3
Half Moon Dominion (Glory): When the Philodox is in contest with an individual the enemy is forced to ''take the half'' for success calculation.
Sense the Oath Breaker (Honor): The werewolf can track down anyone who has broken an oath sanctified by him/her.
Scent of the Past (Wisdom): may sense past events by checking an area for clues.
@@VoivodeMekhet
RANK 4
Roll Over (Glory): May command a single individual to full submission as long there he is not being attacked, Full Round action.
Take the True Form (Honor): Turn an enemy to its true self of birth for a number of turns equal to margin. Or keep him there as long as the Garou focuses on the task with a full action
Boundless Senses (Wisdom): May focus on a place the Garou Knows with an Intelligence + Willpower roll and feel everything happening there as if he was present.
RANK 5
Granite Stand (Glory): For a full action the Garou takes to focus on the gift all damage received is reduced up to Rage points after being halved. All attacks except those from fire and silver are considered superficial.
Geas (Honor): May command an individual and put him under a spell bonding him to the Philodox untill the terms are met, for the spell to break
Strength of Puprose (Wisdsom): may heal one superficial Willpower damge with 1 RC or one Aggravated Wilpower damage with 2 RCs.
sir, you look right for the part, a plaid polo shirt and a beard is very garou.
I used to play VTM and WTA in the 90’s and tried the 5e version of VTM… now will do werewolf… Awesome content thanx
Awesome to see the updated setting. I have t played for more than 20 years.
More to come!
@VoivodeMekhet it's good to see your still going strong. Very much missing larp. This is Doc; not sure if you remember me.
Just found your channel and immediately subscribed
Ahhhhhhhhhh SO EXCITED!! Let’s go GAROU!!!
This system is a lot of fun. I have a whole thing planned for this.
Yes finally our packs Alpha has emerged from the Umbra to impart his wisdom upon us
lol, nice. All gather around pups!
The "alpha" theory is debunked, including by the person that first came up with it.
To quote the chapter 1 preamble blurb, "We have doomed the wolf not for what it is, but for what we deliberately and mistakenly perceive it to be -the mythologized epitome of a savage ruthless killer - which is, in reality, no more than a reflected image of ourself."
Alpha wolves do not exist in nature.
I have a Child of Gaia who works with a Tzimisce and knows way more than they book suggests the averagr Garou knows about them.
Its made him a near pariah.
In W5, he'd have the second pip of The Black Spiral Loresheet.
Also your completely correct on rites and how players need to enjoy that aspect and they did rites very well over all.
When I played in the past werewolf was like a big Sabbat game. At least in my area.
I personally would enjoy 2 types of overarching narratives:1) Where the story is about gathering allies to take down a corrupted Caern, cleanse it and then have the whole conflict of going from a village to a city and whether or not we're better than the humans doing the 'same' thing while taking care of our day to day issues with each chapter ending with another big bad that's trying to destroy the fragile peace you've fought to obtain; 2) Where the story is about trying to make sure that the final vestige of what used to be a Caern is brought back to life in a city where any sort of spirituality is just something that you fake. A type of city life that makes whatever shrine you do make back into another dilapidated building meant to be brought down to make way for a new open space work environment. Or a mall. A place where the garou have to actively go into the city both here and in the Umbra to solve that various issues that would want their holy place destroyed.
Those are both really good plot ideas. I think that Caern up keep is something that seems to be ignored in most games. In truth Caerns are such a powerful source that everyone would try to take them from other groups. The idea that W5 is using with the Get of Fenris is perfect for this.
This has hyped me, Mekhet! Here’s hoping I win one of those extra books of yours!
We'll see in a few days.
The only male Black Furries were metis born to the tribe.
Children of Gaia were formed to attempting peace and talks but they have always been seeking a new strategy to save gaia.
Also I'm surprised you didn't meant how limiting you have to put 2 of your 3 renown into your tribe and howbthat greatly limits character creation. I thought you were going to as you meantioned predator type and how werewolf coukdnof had a past or a task to take its place. Really you feel very thumbs up guy which fair enough hopefully you enjoy the games man.
I'm aware of a lot of the basic knowledge, Black furies and the like. They dropped the Metis concept in w5 and men can now belong to the tribe. w5 is more a reset than a continuation. It's based on ideas from earlier stuff. Too much controversy. Too much appropriation. As it is I was leaving out too many references to the older editions on purpose for that reason. I wanted to focus on the current material primarily. I do plan on going into a little more of the previous stuff in a later video, kind of a "here's the differences" kind of thing.
@VoivodeMekhet That's fair. I was very excited about them hiring native American writers to fix those problems. I totally agree those things needed addressed. Very sad it ended badly. I am hoping future books expand werewolf in the ways needed, but the starting book isn't bad it just needs some tweaks, in my opinion.
I can see that. Where do you think it needs the tweaks?
@VoivodeMekhet Main issues tribe controls gifts to much and auspic isn't a factor in renown set up which heavily limits gift potential and flexible character creation especially with no exp for personalizing builds. H5 has more flexibility in character creation, which is insane. Advantages are lacking a spiritual guidance meeit to replace ancestors would been a good spice. Hispo design is honestly hot garbage. The fact hispo pretty much can't stealth and can pretty much be shut down just by people wearing armor is horrible. It's supposed to be this hunter bite form, but it's terrible compared to honestly a fantastic Glabro design and flexibility. Crinos forms only issue is that you frenzy if you don't kill something that round or spend a wp. This punishes bad rollers and makes strong boss battles overly complicated. An easy fix if the Crinos attacks this round he doesn't frenzy this way the blood thirsty aspect remains but doesn't punish players who roll badly or complicate boss fights. Wind Claws being depowered is the reason bite attacks are so much weaker. And gifts that enhance senses are bared under renown 5. (Yes, I know gifts like Danger Sense and Shadow sense exist at renown 3, but those gifts ether lack precision or are way too overly specific to benefit to tracking and investigation) So I have many issues I realize but as it's a new game much of this can be fixed with house rules and books that fix these issues.
@@TheUnnbreakable There were still Native American folks on the project that was released, just to be clear. I've seen some people trying to suggest that because the Hunters group got canned that they didn't have anyone and that's just untrue.
Just got my preorder today in the mail!
Awesome. Let us know what you think.
pennywise always struck me as more of a Psychomachia
I can see that.
Ill be honest it’s really difficult to get into world of darkness if it weren’t for bloodlines I wouldn’t be able to get into it
I was invited to join a LARP back in 2003. I've been hooked since. I have met a lot of people who say they got into it because of Bloodlines.
interesting that the skin dancers (stolen moons) got the ritual buffed. they only need 1 pelt not 5 now.
There was a clarification for those whom might've misinterpreted the xp cost for new gifts as some kind of typo. It's not, just phrased oddly, but cost is Total amount of your current gifts X 2. It was clarified in the WoD Discord
Awesome, thanks for letting us know.
Super interesting, in your opinion what what setting is the best one to start in? (Vtm, werewolf or hunter) Taking into account you have equal access to all three play groups.
Personally I love to start new players in Hunter.
I got my Copy at Gen Con..and despite masking got covid (whole group I was eating meals with got covid) so I have had time to read it
Hope you had a quick recovery. I lucked out and didn't get the plague. I did have a hell of a bout of jet lag though, lol. What did you think of the book?
I love your channel and especially their video.
Thank you so much!
I feel you dismissed the major differences in Rage VS Hunger, and they are significant.
Brutal rolls only matter in pairs, kick odd in 1's and 2's, and can be either beneficial or detrimental depending on the circumstances.
Additionally, Rage dice can be rerolled with Willpower points if they aren't brutal.
No, just glossed over them. With an hour long video I can't spend as much time as I'd like. I'll be doing a video on dice specifics very soon.
Hi there!
I'm wondering if you have a standpoint on healing of the Garou! Not the supernatural rage healing, but the natural recovery. Here are 2 information I found in the book:
Page 128 says mortals and Garou in Homid/Lupus remove Superficial Damage at the start of the session. I assumed that this is a full heal of all Superficial damage...
Page 134 says "If allowed to rest for a night they also regenerate one Aggravated health level automatically, as normal" which is Werewolf specific and doesn't apply to normal humans
How much Superficial is healed at the start of a session? Is it all? If it is all, then the Balm of Gaia Caern Trait is useless, because that let's you heal 3 Superficial and 1 Aggravated at the start of a session, which is lesser than what they normally have (1 agg, and undefined number of superficial).
Also what if a session takes 2 in game weeks one time, and 1 day the other time? Healing the same amount in 1 day or in 2 weeks doesn't seem right.... or is it to you?
If you could let me know what you think of this, that would be very helpful.
I think W5 should be the most combat focused game of the WoD games by its nature, so having confusing healing rules is kinda a shot in the leg... :/ At least to me.
Thank you for your insight in advance!
Great questions. Let's take them one at a time:
How much Superficial is healed at the start of a session? I would say in Homid and Lupus forms the Garou heal just as any human would because that is what it says on page 128. Unfortunately it leaves a lot open to interpretation saying that they can remove superficial damage if enough time has passed. If you look on page 122 of the Hunter the Reckoning is says that "At the beginning of a session, humans can remove a number of Superficial damage levels up to their Stamina rating from their Health tracker. " There is more on Human healing in the Hunter Core book. I'm sure I'll coving healing in a video at some point.
So I would allow the Balm of Gaia to do additional healing from that.
Also what if a session takes 2 in game weeks one time, and 1 day the other time? Healing the same amount in 1 day or in 2 weeks doesn't seem right.... or is it to you? Time scale healing needs to be taken in to consideration. If the sessions take place far apart I would say that the ST should let player characters heal in an appropriate amount of time.
I do think that w5 should have clearer healing rules too. Hope this helped.
Yes it is the most logical approach, but still it would be great to have clearer rules on healing, especially in the most combat heavy WoD book.
Thank you for your advice!
Did the book not mention the other skinchangers? There werebears, ravens, boars and etc...? Or do we think they're just gonna hand wave most of those away in this 'reboot'.
The book does in fact mention other shifters. Ravens and Spiders are specifically mentioned. However, this is a book about werewolves. I'm sure in the future we will most likely get a changing breeds book. That's how they used to do it in the older editions. 20th Anniversary edition threw everything together in one massive book but that doesn't seem the direction that Renegade is going with 5th ed. We would still be waiting for publication and the books would be a lot more expensive if they were.
I am so happy I didn't invest into 5e World of Darkness.
To each their own. I personally like w5 more than the other editions. What exactly about this edition do you not like? I like to see where everyone is coming from.
Thanks for the review. I've read it. Much of the things you like, I did as well. Infact as I ready a them came to mind about a legacy of a pack and what it means to be in said pack. I plan to develop it enough to make the Pack idea a lore sheet.
Thanks for sharing!
I appreciate the fact that in your review you kept the comparison of editions to a minimum as this is a pitfal and common mistake i see in reviews that inevitably results in a bottomless rabbit hole of disdain and vitriol.
In my opinion there is no reason to compare the editions of werewolf. Where Vampire is a rough continuation of the previous editions (not v20, that's a separate timeline all together.). Werewolf on the other hand is a full remake. They took the ideas of the older editions that worked and took out the things that either didn't work in the system or cultural ideals. So yeah, no reason to compare.
@@VoivodeMekhet this is my first video of yours I find, and this immediately stood out to me!! Thank you, it's an absolute treasure.
Really nice walkthrough. I can't help but snicker a little at your prenouciation of Cairns.. which in my Danish Non-English hearing sounds like 'Karens'. I haven't been into Werewolf in earlier edtions but will definately give this one a try (ordered the hardback already). Regards
There are a few words I tend to mispronounce when I'm not trying, lol. Let me know what you think when your book comes in.
@@VoivodeMekhet Impergium: im-PER-jum (kind of like Belgium) or im-PIR-jē-um (as in Pergium for those Trekkies into obscure bits). Can be either one, since it is not a real word, anyways. Not, however, "impregnium"
@@sebastianfreeman7445 It's Imp-air-ige-ee-um. And it is a real word, it's latin.
werewolves and mages travel thru the Umbra which is the spirit realms very different than the Shadowlands favoured by the Lasombra and the Hecata, and notably the Euthanatos mages, certain Changelings and certain Uktena, Fianna and Shadowlords garous also interact with the Shadowlands and yes the Umbral realms are very much nature spirits, ideas spirits of technology. outer space(as the technocrat void engineers woulid like to call the Umbra). The Shadowlands is very different from the a seperate dimension altogether,
The spirit realms are the dark umbra. It's explicitly the same place.
@@ConernicusRex well the dark umbra is the deeper layer or another layer of the Umbra. There are even realms beyond the umbra, alternate realities etc.
Im curious about the Cult of Fenris and how they differ from the original Get of Fenris.
They lost themselves to HAUGLOSK. They're an interesting storyline.
I'm glad you share a lot of the same thoughts as myself. I myself am so interested in intereactions between other supernaturals as more then just "Kill any leech on sight"! This might be a take that some people wont like, but I believe that WoD5th will be the most cross-splatable of all the editions, and that is probably what excites me the most!
It seems to me that everything is cross playable. I need to get my players together and do a big thing to check.
@@VoivodeMekhet I've had this amazing idea of a Hunter game where one of my players could experience the first change while out on a mission with his cell. I can just imagine the horror of it all! Do you kill your friend/ comrad who's been with you this whole time just because something happened to them that was out of there control? Could work with kindred as well with one of the cell getting embraced! The possibilities
I've been playing with the same ideas lately.
So they basically turned it into an even lamer version of Werewolf the Forsaken and stripped the tribes of uniqueness on top of getting rid of a fan-favorite tribe to own right and throwing out Metis. This is lame as hell.
I can see why some don't like the changes. Personally I do and am enjoying running it.
Yes.
Mage that is all.
Looking forward to Mage 5.
@@VoivodeMekhet monkeys paw curler,s
So this edition fluff is based on last tradition fluff's failure, in order to try something new, hopefully successful .....
Ummmmm and Silver Fangs are not silver anymore ... Black Furies are not black for sure and even have a whole tribe full of herders .... excellent ....
The setting and the background plot are actually really good. I'm planning on running the mini story in the back of the book in a few days to try out the system.
@@VoivodeMekhet Good luck
mine should be here soon woot :)
Let me know what you think when you get a chance to read it.
@@VoivodeMekhet I've been digging into the book and I like it. it is a reimaging with cross game play in mind vampire still bad but if you kill this one the next one will be worse. I know some folks are salty over the culture stuff being removed but honestly i don't think it will be missed at my table. and clearly they left them selves space for splats. i'm looking forward to our session 0.
a great inspiration for the umbra is actually the video game "Ghostwire Tokyo"
I'll have to take a look at that.
thanks for the run through
Hope it help. I can't wait to get on more Werewolf stuff.
there are boogeymen immortal garou who got harano and wander the umbra and go in and out of reality practically have become spirits.
That finds like an amazing plotline.
Much like V5, I hate every single one of the changes.
Please, do not tell me "you just don't like change". I'm old enough to have loved the changes from first to second edition, and to have loved even more the changes from second edition to revised edition. I love the changes in D&D from AD&D to 3rd and from 3rd to 3.5 is most D&D player's favorite set of changes (except those very young who first experienced an edition jump from 4th to 5th; largely considered the best RPG improvement of all time).
This edition is total garbage back to front and I'll never play one newer than W:tA 20th . I think between the two it's so bad I may actually stop buying white wolf products at all and merely pirate or ignore them from now on. (Will definitely be doing this with Bloodlines 2, I ain't paying for that shit.)
I wouldn't say that you don't like change. Far from it. I like the WoD 5th edition, you don't have to. By all means play the systems that you love and enjoy them. I think that's one of the best parts about their being multiple editions, we all can fall back to what we enjoy. I for one went back to Masquerade 2nd edition for my LARPs a while back.
Werewolf ahhhh the old days of the apocalypse that book brings back memories of old professor Mekhet
Okay dude firstly you clearly don't know the old books which is fine i was going to ignore most you say about them as you clearly had negative experiences there of which im sorry to hear. But the heritatyness in werewolf was never truly a thing. Werewolves travel and expand their kinfolk and excepted other werewolf from other tribes and there in lore stories of werewolves taking each others lands and then intergrating into those kinfolk. An example when the Silent Striders were cursed by Set of of the role Madjay line actually avoided the curse by breaking their tribe binds and joined the Silver Fangs who love adding royalty to their kinfolk. So if you dont know Madjay were originally amazing warriors who were black who were basically recognized by Egypt as the best warriors innthe world and they wanted them and through the generations royalty and such and middle eastern heritage intermingled meaning middle eastern and black silver fangs are literally cannon if someone told you you cant be a thing and be a certain race that person was dumb its innthe canon. So you sir are insanely wrong on that one.
No problem. I'm pretty new to the wolves. No I don't know all the lore for them, especially compared to my VtM knowledge. Feel free to lore dump here, I love it. It does seem however that WoD is, at least thus far, things could change later, dropping the concept of Kinfolk. In w5 they are just having the change come randomly with many theories, one being genetics as part of the new plot. When I was talking about that though, I probably wasn't clear, I was talking origin. Vampires for instance also were originally separated by region. If you're not part of the community yet, please think about joining. I'd be happy to have someone who is not only knowledgeable but also passionate about Werewolf. I plan on doing a lot of videos on w5 and having someone who can comment or even start conversations with knowledge of past editions would be great.
@VoivodeMekhet Again respect all that dude I get there's a ton of lore and you aren't wrong on orgins though BGs a a free lore aspect most likely come from Africa originally. As far as the mystery box style I don't like people like JJ Abrims has made me very skeptical of mystery vox story telling. But I like the Kinfolk in my games as to me they were a place that needed fixing as werewolf lore is full of werewolves not respecting their kinfolk and treating them like property and I enjoy watch my players rage against the machine of that so that's mainly why it's a red flag for me. The renown distribution feels like it's very pidgin holdie to me but I never play RAW so I have a bunch of house rules already to make the game fit my table. I'll check out your future werewolf and I will gladly share or correct lore werewolf apocalypse is my system of choice.
@@VoivodeMekhet the Unbreakable is not wrong but you are also not "insanely wrong" either. This aspect certainly existed, it just got often overemphasized. It is true, though, that your Totem or Patron Spirit was the important measurement for tribe, but the heritage angle also existed.
It isn't completely gone in W5 either, actually. While they don't tie tribes with certain irl cultures anymore, they do mention that some family lines exist that produce regularly Garou. From that you can even restore the idea of Kinfolk, it just does not matter much anymore since this generation of Garou has a very different outlook on the world and hasn't bought in this notion of heritage, pure blood and such. As far as they are concerned the first change just happens unpredictably and your tribe is a decision, not a fate. But old dudes among the Garou or zelots like the cult might see that differently.
We'll have to see where the story goes. Lots of changes.
@theOriginalS.P. I really don't think getting rid of pure breed was bad, but they should have replaced ancestors with something like reincarnation or spirit guide would have been cool.
yes Skin dancers are kinfolk who used certain rituals which involves skinning a werewolf live or dead(better live for the magic potency) anduse the ritual to become true garou. and yes these guys have their own tribe and their main totem is the Minotour and due to the Minotours rivalry with Pegasus the main totem of the Black Furies, the Black Furies and the Skin dancers hate each other esp.
I want to read a a novel about their rivalry.
Vampires can also access the werewolf/Mage umbra, by use of high level blood magic ritual, possibly even amalgrams disciplines with blood magic.
Survival of the fittest
Lycan vs lycan
Spirtual journey for the strongest
I still like doing vamp vs lycan cross overs and scaring my players
I loved under a blood red moon especially with the mage subplot
And not forgetting the camarilla vs sabbat fighting it out on the streets of Chicago
well there are certain supernatural diseases or man made ones which can turn people into werewolves, however werewolflike not true garou, like yah can turn into crinos or whatever form but only that , no gifts no rage, etc. just the form. Pentex in its Project Odyssey actually has a bunch of man made shapeshifters, and yes they can use gifts, (gifts are taught by spririts).
Project Odyssey is one of the plots I've always wanted to use in my games but never got the chance.
@@VoivodeMekhet Pentex is a massive mega corp holding company for various wyrm influenced corportations. Even teh Garou and Syndicate mages dont know the full extent of the corporation as not all of its corporations are wyrm tainted, many are legitimate businesses that shield the wyrm tainted ones. In one fan supplement they actually have a massive underground city somewhere in the Appalachians the size of Chicago which extends into Malfeas.
the skin dancer tribe also has members who are true garou. outcasts who join them, however the Skin dancer tribe hates the Black Spiral Dancers who try to ally with them.
I've always loved the skin dancer plot line and I'm so glad they kept it in W5.
Everything about the Werewolf game always makes my skin crawl and not in a good way. The only things I like from it are its bad guys. Bane spirits, Fomori and all kinds of Wyrm stuff is fun. Pentex has also been a staple of my own WoD games and has been ally or enemy to my players. I just really don't like the protagonists of this game. They bore the s**t out of me. Really hairy religious fanatics.... pass.
Thanks for the book review though. It's good to see an other entry in this latest imagining of the WoD. Judging by your reading it also seems that they are getting better at presenting the information of the game to the reader? All good news!
I'm pretty happy with W5. In the old editions they were a bit much and with the way the story works now even the new wolves have that same mind set.
I didnt like anything about 5th
Which is your favorite edition?
@@VoivodeMekhet 20th anniversary
Does anyone?
I played most WOD darkness books with the notable exception of Hunter the reckoning, the old one , I avoid that one like the plague, the new ones for V5 just mucho excellente.
the Black Spiral dancers is the largest tribe in terms of numbers even though practically the arch enemy of the garou nation. While its argued the Black Sprial dancers is the strongest tribe in terms of military might numbers, their coordination sucks, and they are psychotic, mental and chaotic. BSM members would kill each other as kill a member of the garou nation.
Very true
Yeah in revised I think they pinned it as the BSD tribe having numbers roughly equal to the entire garou nation + the stargazers.
@@ConernicusRex Yah while the BSD have numbers equal to the whole garou nation, they also have the highest rates of deaths, I not surprised if the majority of BSD deaths come from killing each other or the strains of the wyrm. Also BSD coordination is poor since they are all insane violent and chaotic , they dont have a centralized leadership and cant really coordinate, however if there is a strong warlord that comes out , they could coordinate and that would be really scary. The BSD reminds me of the Russian army , lots of manpower, lots of offensive firepower but poorly coordinated , poor leadership. and many are not too bright.
@@ConernicusRex if the BSD become too large and too open in their activites, they will probably get a special 2nd inquisition cull Not surprised if Pentex is trying to clean their mess ups.
not long winded a "narrator"
I think you had a crappy storyteller. There were always a lost tribe, The Black Spiral Dancers, who were werewolves of the Wyrm. I really never had a fight between two players in 20 years of storytelling this game.
No doubt. Sadly it is a common thing, having a bad ST.
Garou fighting Garou more often than the Wyrm and it's minions is a major theme of the first four editions.
So tired of people thinking cultural appropriation is bad.
Casually using other cultures practices, believes and spiritualties without the any kind of respectful research or awareness of those cultures perspectives on it, is. I have no problem with representation, it's different than appropriation.