The Science of ADHD Time Blindness | Sci Guys Podcast
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- This week we take on the topic of time blindness; an experience common amongst people with ADHD, wherein perception of time is… a bit of a mess.
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Do you have ADHD? Do you experience time blindness?
I'm very excited for this topic as almost everyone in my family has adhd and time blindness at varying levels lol
Yes
ADHD adjacent: ACC. I likely have time blindness and tend to overcompensate by being extra early to things.
Yes yes
😊😊😊
this feels so validating like all of this is so hard to explain and causes so much stress in my life. I always feel so bad about things like being late or missing deadlines to probably an unreasonable point, constantly sacrificing my own mental and physical health just to not be a burden or have a person say back to you, "Just get organised, or set an alarm, you would if you cared 😒". Also would love a full ep looking at burnout.
Literally hit play on this while thinking "I can probably walk this 40 minute journey in 30 minutes, right?"
Only at 7:51 so not sure if it gets mentioned later in the video, but I have ADHD but I'm chronically early for things and I wasn't really sure why but it dawned on me during a therapy session - I'm chronically early because I'm trying to stop myself being late and I overcompensate 😂 Like a drive somewhere will take 10 minutes but in my head I'm thinking "5 minutes to get the car started and set off, 5 minutes once I'm there to get parked up so I guess I should set off 20 minutes before I need to be there" and I end up there 10 minutes early 😂
Anyone else experience this??
It's always either too early or too late. Or stressing absolutely to be somewhere on time. I don't know how people can leave their house and arrive right on time with no stress at all. And on top of that, I'm German. Especially elder folks will name punctuality as a top required characteristic for a person to have. Before anything like "having morals" or "being kind". The pressure is huge
Omg I do exactly this! I don't want to be late so will massively over estimate how long things take and end up always being too early
the last time i was early for smth was probably a few yrs ago LOL
I'm a mechanic. The way this manifests for me the most the causes me problems is when my boss is asking how much longer a job is going to take me. Or how long in general it should take me vs the time it should take. Or trying to tell the customer when their vehicle will be done. It's so stressful and makes me feel dumb and inadequate in a way because I'm the only one in my shop who has this problem.
One time I had something to do at 3 in the afternoon, and my friend asked if I wanted to do brunch, and my brain literally went, "I don't know if I'd have time for that...I don't want to miss my thing at 3..." Because I have no idea how long things actually take...
21:24 this is where object constancy & time blindness intersect! I can't remember that I need to pay attention to how long something takes unless that thing is immediately after thinking i should do it
I literally have a trip next week. I havent fully packed yet. Its going in steps, cuz my brain is convinced that its not as important as other things, because I "have time". I also logistically understand that I do NOT, in fact, have time due to other things scheduled in the meantime. I have missing things to get, laundry to wash, a list to set so i dont overpack what I dont need. Cuz i will, it happens every time
Time blindness feels kinda like missing time but caused by hyperfocusing so hard that you don’t notice time.
This is so relevant right now. I just heard people on the radio making fun of someone who asked for accommodations for time blindness and saying it isn't real, and thinking that they thought it was a whole disability (as opposed to a symptom).
I do ok with deadlines if the task can be neatly broken down into mini deadlines. For example, in my job I have a set number of evaluations to complete per month, and the list of how many people I am evaluating in that month is given to me early each month by my boss. I take the number of people times the set number of evaluations per person expected, then divide that total by the number of days that I'll be working that month (minus weekends, PTO days, etc). This gives me an idea of how many I need to complete per day. When I am getting that number done I'm fine and on task. If I had a bad day and other stuff took my attention, I know I'm behind, and have to make up for it either by doing more for the next few days if I can, or if not by dividing the total back out over my remaining time again. Giving myself daily deadlines gives me more sense of urgency, and keeps me from missing the monthly deadline.
However, if you give me one big task due in a month that can't be as neatly broken down, I'm hopeless. I'll procrastinate because I don't want to do it, and then because I can't think how to get started, and then have to cram the whole thing in at the last minute. I was absolutely terrible at research papers and creative writing projects in school for that reason.
47:20 irony is they do this in local councils already, no meetings are meant to be set before 10am & all should finish by 4pm. It's done for pretty much all the reasons Correy states but because these reasons effect the people higher ups & not just the standard worker it's implemented.
Isn't it called "asynchrone"? I have that, and that's what the doc said (but I'm in French speaking country).
I am autistic and have ADHD (inattentive type) too.
I would describe it as a feeling of the same day playing on repeat, seasons being the only milestone perceived. The positive effect is for me a good memory. Stuff that happened 20 years ago are as fresh as if it was 2 weeks ago. I feel like I pass through time instead of time passing through me, so I don't feel any older or changed... and even didn't change much physically as a result. Hard to describe that feeling.
And yes, I can either get an amazing amount of work done in very little time (and forget to sleep or eat 😅), or do nothing for 2 months and think that I just rested 2 weeks.
It's also difficult to remember which day of the week, or month, or year I'm at, so I surround myself with calendars, it helps a bit 😁
You are not alone. I’m right there having the same struggles.
I have autism and suffer a lot from time blindness but it's also time math that I have a problem with. Like I find it hard to find out how many hours I work in a day when I know the time I start and the time I finish. Simple addition is easy until it comes to time for me. I also forget times of things and have to remind myself constantly. Surprisingly never been late for work though.
I listened to this while I was on a walk. The episode ended and I went “oh that was a short one!” No Josh. It’s been an hour. Your mom is worried about how long you’ve been gone. Stop admiring the Halloween decorations and go home
You guys are so comforting and easy to listen to. Thanks for existing.
My job demands that we always estimate our time and log exactly how long we spent on each customer project for billing purposes.
This broke me man. Idk but I need to leave, no matter how much I try to be ok with this way of working, I just can't seem to be. I hate it, I am miserable, and it stresses me out to no end.
NOT ME DOING THIS AT 11 PM WHILE I KEEP FORGETTING TO TAKE A SHOWER AND GETTING STUCK ON REDDIT
Oh shit I was gonna take a shower while listening to this.. thanks 😂
This is something I relate to so much and hate. I have time blindness. I was always late to classes at school, late for whatever is the first thing I have to do outside of the house, still regularly 10-15 minutes late for work, etc. I try. I try so so hard but it almost never seems like I can be on time for things. I've been doing a bit better with work because I have mentally set a time in my head for "If you don't start getting ready NOW, you WILL be late" but it's such an issue, I'm honestly so nervous of trying to switch jobs cause I feel like I'll just be reprimanded about it all the time or maybe even fired if I fuck up bad enough.
I *can't* just "fix" it. If I could, I would have by now.
Sir Cadian. He fought valiantly, but none could withstand what came through the Eye of Terror that fateful day.
it's 7:30pm. I have an application to fill out. It's going to take a while. It's due tomorrow. I have no time to work on it tomorrow before I have to have to turn it in. I am watching this episode instead of filling out this application.
The now not now mentality really sums up my brain. Deadlines are oh I've got a month I'll do it next week, etc. to oh shit I've got a week!!
I have ADHD and this episode explains so much. I have managed to work well with what I can, though. My job is repetitive and scheduled enough that I can meet deadlines that my coworkers can. My home chores and associated items have also been strategised in a way that maximises executive function, while I eat on a clock, which means that I always get to it regardless. Additionally, I am also extremely germaphobic, so I can use that to motivate cleaning. That said, when I want to do something out of the regimented plan my life is, it is nearly impossible and is so frustrating.
Woke up early so Watched this while getting ready for work. Of course got totally distracted… and late again.this issue is jeopardizing my job, and negatively impacts all aspects of my life. I really really don’t want to be late, everyday I start thinking I’ll be on time. Ugh feel so guilty coming in late. Set alarm after alarm, so many reminders. Fcking time. Seems like nothing works. 😞
I don't think I have ADHD. I'm autistic and some people have asked if I'm AuDHD but I don't think so.
When something gets pushed "forward or back"..
I don't see it was going toward me or away from me. I see it as being changed forward in time or back in time.
Forward one month from October is November. Back one month from October is September.
I think I'm a minority in this view. But when I hear that an event gets "moved back", I intuitively imagine that it gets moved to a date that is earlier, or back in time, from the original date. When I hear something gets "moved forward", I think of it as being a later date, or forward in time.
I have extreme time blindness where it's taken a toll in my life in ALL aspects (family, work, school, relationships, time with myself) because 2 minutes, 2 hours, and 2 weeks feel the exact same. Time blindness is also good for making things go by faster like putting a video on 2x speed.
I couldn't finish the video because I was too triggered by the "just look at a clock" in the intro. Every single person I've told even others with ADHD (no time blindness) says the same thing 🙄🙄 set alarms and timers.
Those methods have never worked for me, it's like telling a dyslexic person to just read words and their brain will stop changing letters or a blind person to look at a picture then their eye sight would come back.
Everything is on a spectrum and I'm on the far end of time blindness. I had an event that happened 3 months ago and it feels like it happened last week. I truly can only perceive large amounts of time change like years and even then that gets muddy.
Thank you for sharing and bringing this to light.
I am right there with you. You couldn’t have explained this better. Feel the exact same way. So frustrating being told we’re lazy or careless when we try so hard to keep track of time. I feel so horrible every time I’m late, which is a daily occurrence. Hope you find a system that helps you with this issue. I feel lost.
I agree with Corry that a day is sth we feel how long it is BUT I also think we can learn longer periods of time. And in some cultures they probably relate to time in longer periods of time than a day.
As someone that is a shamanic practioner and "in tuned with nature" I have a very good concept of a moon cycle, we can call it a Moon. I count time longer than a day in moons or moon quarters and pin events and how long projects take on those periods of time. I know where in the moon cycle we are and can easily translate it into the shorter time frame of days. If someone asks me "when was that?" I will have pinned it on the phase of the moon and correlate it to which phase we are in now and say "oh it must be appx three weeks because it was the last new moon" or "oh it was ten days ago because it was just as the moon was becoming full, maybe two days before the full moon". So I use the concept of days to describe it to other people that don't follow the moon to a T but I think in Moon cycles. (I also have friends that also think in moons that I don't have to translate it into days for.)
Longer periods of time I pin on how close to an equinox or solstice it is/was. Like a friend asked me "how long ago was it that your sister reached out?" and I answered that it was almost three months, about 2 and 1/3 of a moon because it was just after the winter solstice (and I know that the next equinox is in just over half a moon). And a friend that also thinks in moons asked me when easter is, and i aswered "Oh, its a moon away because it is the first full moon after the spring equinox" and they knew right away. I didn't have to say how many days or which date in the calender it was. That is easy to look up from the answer I gave. They even know it is not a full month away because a moon is roughly 28 days so if I say it is a moon away then they know it is in late march and not beginning of april.
For reference, the date they meant by asking for easter (which I hope is the same all over the globe) is march 30 th and he equinox is on march 20th.
"living in the brains best guess" "brain constructed and presented to them" - ecological psychologists and various philosophers might have a different approach to that.
My assumption is you are basing that from indirect perception, have you considered/explored direct perception?
But you don't directly perceive anything. Your brain receives data about two slightly different flat planes of photons from which it constructs a 3d visual perception of the world. It receives data about small changes in air pressure from two opposite directions and constructs an audio perception of the world. Same with all other forms of sensory input. And if it is lacking sensory input (which it is *most of the time*) it fills in the gaps based on the sensory data it has and the accumulated knowledge of past sensory data. And even if you are receiving a full and accurate set of sensory data, your perception of the world around you is filtered through your prior understanding, your personal and societal preconceptions and biases, and your immediate perceptual priorities (or what your brain considers "important" information vs what can be discarded to optimise processing time). Basically, it is impossible for you directly perceive *anything*. The best you can manage is an accurate enough construction of your model of reality that you don't suffer negative consequences.
@@RaunienTheFirst But if you use inference from past experience, and rely on experience to gain knowledge, how do you gain a representation the first time you experience something new?
Starting with no knowledge, tabula rasa, and needing knowledge from past experience, empiricism, cant both happen... unless I am missing something.
How does the central executive, used in indirect perception, 'fix' or 'fill in the gaps' if what is sensed requires fixing? Where does the trusted information come from?
I did a video essay about this recently - hence my curiosity.
14:40 my little voice will go "an hour and a half... 30 min? 15? 2 ho-- 5 hours? Maaaaaybe 8.. or more?" But it's all about the same task,, it'll give me times,, but then I'll think of another factor that either makes it take way less time by streamlining it, or infinite unknown amount of time by adding smth else I can't control,, and they keep switching without actually making it possible to know where it lands(admittedly, one that could be 15 min and ones I think could be 8 hours or more are not the same task,, but it can go from 15 min to 5 hours or an hour and a half to 8 plus,,, so not that far off,,, tiny bit hyperbole),,,,, I think this is also a large contributer to me procrastinating,, considering the ones that are the hardest to estimate the time commitment and often correlatively are unpredictable are the hardest to start
ADHD is an executive dysfunction.
All people can perceive time differently. The time blindness is caused by deficits in the frontal brain, impairments in working memory and organisation amongst other things.
40:00 I feel like along with that too,, if youre bored or not doing much,, can't speak for neurotypicals, but especially for me with adhd,, before I recently started meds, I didn't even realise, but like 5 seconds that go by without something directly pertaining to me in a rehearsal for example, and my mind has gone off to find something else to think about or focus on(vs with meds where i can just be present and existing in the moment without unknowingly coming up with mental distractions(which are never stimulating enough to actual entertain or keep my attention)),,, so with adhd, if every even 5 seconds or so of boredom results in another thought, and they just keep stacking, that's so many things that have happened during that time, even if you're doing nothing,, so it feels like a long time,,, but if you're focused on one thing that you're entertained by or interested in, if you're fully engaged in what you're doing, then you don't have all those bonus stray thoughts occurring every 5 seconds, which means that instead of what when bored would be like 12 things a minute plus the thing you're actively trying/supposed to be doing and any external input,,, it's just that one thing you're focusing on for that minute, or often, many minutes. 15 minutes of boredom and forcing yourself to do that task before you get into the flow of it is essentially 180 things occurring plus the task and your surroundings, vs 15 focused minutes is just the task,, you often even won't realise what's happening in your surroundings, or the other things stimulating you like fidgeting and stuff will be happening unconsciously and you don't register them,,,, so when you think of it like that, with the 180+ things in boredom/unengaged mode vs 1 in engaged,, it's easy to see how that can warp your perception of time,, especially when with adhd you can fluctuate between them essentially against your will depending on the day and the task,, when one thing happening can occur for 8 hours and another can occur in essentially 5 seconds, how is one supposed to tell the difference?
Funny! Me and my best friend also use the activation energy analogy to describe when we want to do something that we are not really feeling like doing. We are also two ADHD people with a biotechnology (me) and biochemistry (him) degrees😂😅
34:29 idk if he's gonna give the moon example next, but I think it's great for considering this idea,, everyone's seen the moon, when it's way up in the sky alone, it looks small, doesn't it? Yet when it's near the horizon by buildings or trees or whatever else, it looks way bigger,, but it's not, it doesn't appear bigger from some sort of shift in the atmosphere like how sunlight changes colour going through different layers of air at different angles,,, it's becuase when it's closer to landmarks, you can put it into perspective and see how large it looks despite being so unfathomably far away,, yet when it's in the sky alone, it seems so much smaller
I'M FRENCH AND LISTENING FROM FRANCE! It's true we generally tend to express time as if it is coming at us (as in "tuesday comes in two days", or I guess even like "winter is coming") but I'm pretty sure that it's not different in english. I think what Luke might have been referencing might be the fact that in some languages, the past and future are not something you move towards to or back from nor that is coming at you or getting away from you but just a sort of extension of the now. It works in a way that people who speak those languages tend to not process the future as something disconnected from everyday life. It makes people save more money and consider past event or people (like ancestry) as more relevent. I believe it's the case in mandarin for exemple. It's def not the case in french and I can't think of something in the grammar that would make time feel different from how it's expressed in english, in case the "time is now" thing was not what Luke was thinking about.
Also, 12:13 I've literally just realise that I may in fact be REALLY impulsive :/ (as in this exact thing made me have to repeat a year in uni twice while still mostly having really good grades, HIP and appreciation+encouragement from professors)
Also (because I'm editing this as I go) yes we do get how long a day is at 26:30 and can only feel how long a week feel by adding 7 days on top of each other, but I'd argue that it's still mostly true for a year too? The cycle of seasons feels lika a very real tangible thing to experience and remember. It feels like a solid unit the same way as a day does: I wouldn't break down a day in hours because it's arbitrary but I can break it into changes of light and temperature. The same way I wouldn't break down a year in months which don't mean that much but seasons and temperature and daylight changes are tangible things we physically experience? Yes there's this feeling that 5 years can seem like a short amount and a year a long amount but I don't think that's quite the same subject. To me a year would be the next size unit after a day for definitly knowing/having a feeling of how long something is that everybody regardless of culture can get? Maybe seasons can pop in in between but those can very much vary in number and length aroung the world that I'm not that sure
Time blindness can also present as being incredibly early because of the lack of time perception and the anxiety that causes. (Hi! I'm chronically early and it actually wastes so much time)
Big fuckng feels.
And the Experience of time is SO inconsistent. Like 10 minutes- sometimes that Feels like an hour. Sometimes an hour Feels like 10 minutes. It IS NOT a constant to us. We can learn by Rote and practice, but it still doesn't Actually connect to the numbers in a real way.
I have severe ADHD and I’m very good at estimating time perception, it’s just when people get carried away with something they might not be talking notice of time because of the hyperfocus or paralysis. That’s my thoughts. It’s definite a thing but all people in life get it to an extent. But the time blindness comes from being not mindful because of their executive dysfunction. If someone is poorly organised that’s why they are late.
I recently learnt that in the stone age people were working 8 hours one day but the next day they worked 2 hours and 8 hours the day after that, 2 hours the day after that and so on. That’s what’s natural for a person with ADHD, it’s more healthy!!!
LOVE LUKE'S description of TIME!!!
I’m waiting to get for a proper diagnosis, because focus and trying to keep track of things, or being in a strict schedule stresses me out.
I’m literally quitting my perfect job cuz of how structured it is and how often I almost or am late getting back to my shift.
I have add and have this struggle. I didn’t have a term to use while explaining it to my doctor but I said I can look at a clock and think in 15 min I’ll do that but when I think it’s been about 15 min it may be an hour later. I also underestimate how long something will take me.
wierdly I only have time blindness when I'm awake, before I go to sleep I can pick a time and I wake up pretty much exactly on that time i don't know how it works tho
I got the answer first! And I’m listening on 1.5 speed because I wanted it to be a specific length to know how long time had passed 😅
this video reminded me that ive been putting off making the mini figures for my dnd campaign next weekend :P thanks lol
I have ADHD and time blindness. I've found having my phone announce the time when the alarm is going off is immensely helpful. I also have alarms that tell me when to get ready, when to leave if I want to grab breakfast on the way, etc.
I’m 68 and still working at this. I am trying to get ready early and leave on time via an Alexa reminder to get ready and a leave now timer.
17:43 Nono Luke’s got a point
i agree w ur red pills SO MUCH omg
42:01 does anyone know which study he was referring to here? I'd be interested in seeing how/what they're measuring with this,, like, how does one apply emotional stimuli like a picture of someone smiling to perception of time passing?? The only thing I can really think of is like a "recall when this happened" type thing,, which I feel doesn't fit under time perception in the same way that it is effected by time blindness, at least for me,, like, you could show me a pic or ask me about a specific even and I could probably recall in quite good detail when it happened or what was happening then or smth like that, but that's just that I cognitively understand and remember with great detail the event occurring and the surrounding circumstances, so I can tell you, oh, that was in may of 8th grade, or it was two summers ago,,,,, but if you asked me how long ago it *felt* or with the 9th grade one, how many years ago that actually was, I can't perceive it, I'd have to count backwards on my fingers til I got to may of, probably 2017 iirc or go "I remember 2016 was 7th grade, so 2017 is 8th grade, and 17 is 7 years ago, so it happened 7 years ago" but that's just doing the math based on knowing when it occurred, that doesn't actually track based on how long ago it *feels* or that I would perceive it to be,,, I perceive it to be maybe not that long ago, a few years, but also forever ago,, it could be nearly two decades(which logically, doesn't even make sense since I'm 21,,, but it *feels* like it could've been that long, and yet the opposite at the same time)
0:29 i feel called out
Yes and yes. If I have to go anywhere I give myself two extra hours. TWO. EXTRA. HOURS. Am I ever early doing that? Rarely. Often late. When I am early, I am waaaay too early. If I’m free all day but have an afternoon appointment, my whole day revolves around the appointment, so I am busy that day.
The best part is my undying faith that “this time it will be different”, I am a smart human individual - but something always happens (set the alarm for pm not am, have to go back cos I left something, the world is my oyster on new and improved ways of fucking up the simple process of leaving the house).
It’s incredible. I would not wish it on my worst enemy.
Ok, maybe on fascists and dictators.
Good watch, well done!
DO I HAVE ADHD OR AM I JUST LATE AND LAZY🤪
i'm diagnosed but i also hate all the psychiatrists and therapists i've had so-
i've actually been late to my own gcse and A level exams lmao