I Can't Take This Anymore! - Why Glass Is the Enemy of Great Sound - www.AcousticFields.com
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- Опубліковано 19 жов 2024
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In this video, Dennis Foley looks at the common issue of glass in audio setups and its negative impact on frequency response and resolution. Through several examples, Dennis highlights how glass can create severe distortions in the 800-2000Hz range, drastically affecting sound quality. He also provides practical solutions, like proper window placement and the importance of using the right acoustic treatments. Learn how to minimize the negative effects of glass and improve your room’s acoustics for a higher-resolution listening experience.
#RoomAcoustics #GlassReflections #SoundQuality #AcousticTreatment - Наука та технологія
The thing about acoustics is that a human does not know there is or what various acoustic issues sound like, it's something you simply can't know until you hear it taken away and then you will know what that issue sounds like for the rest of your life. You only understand acoustics in retrospect, so to speak. A simple way to learn about how glass, or any other surface/object/speaker baffle... contributes to what you're hearing is to obtain or purchase a cheap stethoscope and then turn up the music to loud and with the stethoscope listen to any glass, or anything else that's vibrating and you will hear it and be able to compare it to the actual music and then you will know. The windows in my building turn everything into death metal, for instance.
Agreed. Most lack the reference of a proper designed and treated room. When I ask my clients who have built or treated their rooms, I see two responses. I hear regret that they didn't do it sooner and they have missed all these years of listening. I also see determination never to go back.
You could let folks know that if they were ever to visit a concert hall, that they wouldn't find windows, much less glass.
I do not want to add to the existing confusion level by bringing in large room issues. My plate is full dealing with the unfounded belief systems involved with small room acoustics.
Can you share what the effects are with glass and why? Thanks.
Glass has a negative impact on frequency response from 800 - 2,000 Hz. It is the worst surface material type for middle and high frequency reflections.
Lived in this house 30 years directly behind right speaker is a large glass ~ 8 X 8. I used Japanese sogi screens to block it for many year but last week my hot water heater gave out. My plumber replaced it. It came with 4 X 8 fiberglass wrap which is not needed in S Florida. I folded it in half, wrapped an bed sheet around it and shoved behind on of the screens. OMG
Even though you are using the incorrect rate and level of absorption, you are doing it in a critical area. just imagine what the other side treated same would sound like
@@AcousticFields The right side is stucco over lathe and the front door
Dennis can you remind us what's a proper way to cover a glass window. You explained in other videos what the proper rate and level was when buying something to cover them. I cannot remember the density that works.
Every usage requires a different treatment approach. Use open celled foam in a 6" depth if the window will support it.
Thick Curtains ? Not the perfect solution but the cheapest and most efficient for most cases.
Thankyou for showing us a design of a building you are working on!
Stay tuned for upcoming projects. We currently have 5 new builds in production. One is a 200 seat piano only venue that requires the resolution of a two channel listening room.
@@AcousticFields Amazing. I think it would also be a great learning experience to show us your work in progress.
@@CyclingSundays I am certain you are correct. However, when you are running a large company, you must place resources in categories that produce the best results considering the time and expense involved in all processes. You can go to the proect section of our web site and view projects that will educate you on some of those processes.
www.acousticfields.com/projects/
Good video. Thanks!
Thank you for your support and following.
Excellent
Thank you so much 😀
Hi.
I have a 25 square meters living room, with massive, huge glasses all around. I have no neighbours, but crazy bad sound and a lot of HUM with turntable too. Want to cover with stone wool. Local shop can supply different weight and thickness. 80 KG/M3 would be recommened? Should be heavier or lighter? About thickness, i can get from 25mm. only, up to 200mm. They said the thicker the better...What do you recommend? Thank you!
Do not use building insulation as a sound absorption tool. It does not have the proper rate and level of absorption for music and voice.
@@AcousticFields The building is not a property of mine, and everything I`ll make will stay there once I´ll leave , in a few years from now. Of course building pannels aren´t the best option, but I thought it´d be anyway better than glass.
I went so far as to take the glass out of some pictures in my listening room. Better to have a bit of diffusion than reflection. When It's serious listing time, the TV gets covered.
Removing glass in your situation will not create diffusion. It will create sound redirection. Diffusion technology has a chosen frequency response that must be applied correctly.
Can I put a bedmatress to cover a window balconydoor if the matress fits perfectly where the balcony door is or will there still be issues?
Yes, since you will be reducing the reflection from the glass. I can not speak to other issues with provided data.
Say you're in a _large_ room with one wall full of huge windows. Would a remedy to them muddying the acoustics be listening at low volumes in the very near field?
I am talking about a mono signal only, that may have components only from 100 to 10k Hz.
The scenario is not a music studio, but my practising opera singing in a smaller church chapel. I do have immense problems of hearing some things there that I do later hear on the session recording made with a Tascam recorder with one of its mics pointing at me from 1.5 meters or so. And that wall of windows is very close to where I stand (because I can put my stuff there). If they muddy the sound (next to chapel acoustics perhaps being generally messed up), I wonder whether that's what makes things worse. I sometimes hear things better if I vocalize standing 1m before the wooden stuff of the closed up pipe organ manuals etc :-D But it's more like so-so remedy, and it is too loud, health-wise.
Was thinking of building something that allows me to record short throw-away clips for immediate near-field listening with a DIYed speaker box with a little speaker selected for minimum directionality up to 8kHz, as "searching for what I need to hear" with moving my head, from recordings, using my battery boombox, also has been an ongoing challenge...
That would be one option. Second option would be to treat the horizontal soundfield, say 6' of floor up glass.
Are there different considerations for single pane as opposed to double/triple pane glass ?
These videos as very informative for me as many of us have suboptimal rooms
Windows are an acoustic "hole" in your wall. Doors are also an acoustical "hole" in the wall. Any variance in density is never welcome in any barrier. Noise transmission is vibrational acoustics. You must be concerned with density when you are dealing with vibrations. The goal with any window or door is to at a minimum create the same density in the "hole" as the existing structure.
@@AcousticFields Therefore any proposed window "treatment" can possibly be considered optimal only if existing window spaces are sealed up with the same materials as the surrounding walls?
When I moved into a new place, the biggest room was chosen as my listening room. The sound of certain singers like Rickie Lee Jones sounded so shrill that I couldn't stand it. When her very unique voice hit a certain frequency it was unbearable. It took moving the speakers 6 and a half feet from the shuttered window behind them to sound acceptable. I just moved them several inches even further out; it was very noticeable and advantageous. Of course moving speakers this far out requires a subwoofer, probably closer to the wall to make up for lost bass, as at near 7 feet away, the back wall isn't reinforcing the bass anymore.much anymore. Just how far away is glass capable of adding nasties to the sound?
Moving a subwoofer close to a wall creates frequency and amplitude distortions. Study the term SBIR, speaker boundary interference response. Glass surfaces should be located near the ceiling along the walls to stay out of the critical reflection/listening soundfields.
I might have gotten lucky then. As the bass was faultless; very even sounding, no discernable peaks without tone controls.And aiming the sub's woofer at the back wall but NOT parallel to the back wall, sort of at an angle, its wave had to ricochet off several walls before reaching the wall behind my listening seat. Making the bass wavelength take a longer path, & enabled it to let out more of its wavelength, and the bass definitely went deeper than aiming the woofer forward at the listening position as usual. Similar to using my room the way a transmission line speaker fools the woofer into thinking it's in a bigger cabinet. The bottom line for me, was that it worked!
I use aluminum infused roller blinds and thermal drapes... Sound and electronics but Today I spend more time in the RF field where there are programs calculate wave propagation prediction.
I have to find the latest programs that operate in the audible range for modeling . Or of the raytrace in autocad works?
Ray trace is a good program for frequency and amplitude of middle and high frequencies along with location of said. Lower frequency pressure locations are determined by simple math. Pressure amplitude is a bit more difficult.
@Acoustic Fields. I have a T shaped room with speakers at 1 end of the top of the T. There is a window on 1 sidewall and no wall ( due to the bottom leg of the T on the other side). If I am covering the 4mm thick Windows with 75mm of acoustic absorption with a flow resistivity of 21000 Pa.s/m2 + 75mm air gap (75mm is not ideal i know but working with what I can + 225mm at reflection points), do you have any suggestions what i should use as a backing to a acoustic pannel that will be used as movable wall to block of the opening ( bottom leg of the T) and make the room rectanglar when listening ciritacaly. Basicaly what will aproximate 4mm glass backing to an acoustic pannel to even reflectivity etc. Room is music listening with resonably good gear. Thanks
Any rigid material type will work as a backing that is rigid enough to support the constant movement.
@@AcousticFields Im building framed pannels for the movable wall. So I can go with no backing, 4mm ply, 4mm MDF 17mm MDF ect, whatever I want. One would presume these have vastly different reflective properties. What would most closely aproximate 4mm glass? Or is this a non issue with the 75mm +75 mm air gap 21,000 absorber?
@@Angellus502 Mount the foam on the rigid material type. You are overthinking the significance. The rigidity of the backing will not have an audible impact with 75 mm of foam. I do not now the foam performance curves. I would increase the thicness to 100 mm since most foams are lacking in performance parameters for critical listening applications.
@@AcousticFields Aim for perfection and land in the mud, but aim for the mud and land in the shit! Looked at 21000 curvers, 75mm + air gap is not great, 150mm absobtion is much better. Air gap works better at 100mm +
@@Angellus502 Better is a relative term that would depend on usage requirements. Nothing is better unless you compare it to the usage requirements.
Glass looks great in speaker marketing photos, apparently, even if it's a disaster for room sound.
Marketing has nothing to do with sound quality. Its all about promotion. There should be disclaimers on every marketing photos stating do not do this at home.
So some sort of curtains are in order.
Curtains do not provide the proper rates and levels of absorption for music and voice.
OK -- but what to do when you have GLASS - not all of us have a chance to build our own listening rooms
I built a wall in the window frame to block up the window on my front wall, then covered that and the other walls and windows with absoption
Cover all glass with either diffusion or absorption technologies. The choice between these two will be determined by the room usage.
If you are that concerned about the effects of glass then buy some high-end headphones.
This is a false comparison. There can be no comparison made in the sonic presentaion value of headphone sound versus room sound. They are dramatically different in too many aspects to be compared to each other.