A few months ago youtube recommended "Stop Trying To Become A Music Producer" and back then I was like hours away from giving up on this whole music making hobby because of how much I didn't believe in myself, and that video just somehow gave me the motivation I needed to continue on with my dream, and now I finished a record and released it because of that boost you gave me. I would just like to thank you for inspiring me sir ❤
Moby said ‘make music for your friends’ - that totally works for me. And if i can listen to my music and enjoy it over new worldwide hits that sound irritating, i did not fail. No matter how small my ‘audience’ is
It's a difficult balance. Personally I think you'll ultimately be happier making music you really connect with, rather than making music you think other people want to hear.
That’s pretty much what I do and when I get my “plays” total every week from Apple Music and see zeros, the reality is strong. Lol. I enjoy making music, but I’m never expecting many if any people to listen to it, but I still put it out there.
I don't think that was the point of this video. It's not that you should only try to make music based on what you think others will like. I would say unless you are writing jingles or something for strictly commercial reasons, most artists write stuff they connect with. It's simply asking yourself why you are making music and what are your goals. I'm sure there are people who only do it for themselves, which makes them happy and that's fine. I'd say that's pretty rare. Most people want recognition and others to like their music. And if you want to actually make a living as a musician, the "only doing if for yourself" mentality won't take you very far.
yess! it's the reason I started and the reason I'll keep going! I really just like the experience of creating the exact music I want to listen to. but hey, posting music is a great bonus to that too!
Quite a long time ago I gave up of external validation and now I just make music for myself and the people who play it with me. Music has become a center point for my social life and personal gratification. Ever since then I have enjoyed making music much more I will still get family members and friends asking “why don’t you try to do something with your music?” And my response is twofold: 1) my music is out there for free and my closest friends and family don’t even listen to it, the musicians that lay on it don’t even really listen to it. If that audience isn’t interested then I shouldn’t expect the general population to listen 2) why would I want music to be my pain-in-the-ass job? I make what I want when I want, it’s my fulfilling hobby right now and turning professional and playing crowd pleasing music would ruin my therapeutic hobby My approach isn’t for everyone, but I did answer those “why” questions a long time ago and it gives my music purpose and makes it more enjoyable. And as a casual musician, I put quite a bit of hard work and effort into my music, more than many musicians that consider themselves more “serious”
If you want to make music for yourself, then you've already succeeded! That's it, done! It can be literally anything you want. As soon as you complain it's not "doing well" or "being heard" then it's not for you is it! That's a completely separate thing. Adding external success factors as criteria have to inevitably change why it's made in the first place.
Here's my #1 pro tip as a graphic designer that also applies to music: Build a frame in which your music making is only allowed to take place. Another term for this could be "voluntary constraints". In other words, before you even write or play the first note, you have made a conscious decision about the limitations you will apply to the song. This could be choices about which kind of sounds you gonna use, genre, feel etc. This way, you have built a frame that limits the choices you can make when actually writing a track. You could take this even further and make conscious decisions beforehand about which kind of audience the track should be for or for which market. When creating logos, luckily these kind of helpful restrictions are determined by the nature of the business i'm doing a logo for , their core values, their USP, their competition, their market, their customers etc. These predetermined restrictions allow me to not be overwhelmed with the "too many options" paralysis, something that could happen when making art for the sake of art, something logos are not. But you can apply the same idea to any kind of art: Simply set some rules before you even start. Believe me, there's a reason why i call this my #1 tip.
A friend gave my CD to the local lo-power FM radio station. Since then it's spread through all of the tri-state lo-power stations and even as far as Israel, Australia, and Russia... that I know of.
I’d love to hear it actually! I’m from the Tristate myself, NJ, and yeah its hard out here to get your music played or heard out here especially in South Jersey…
Having a direction and a plan sounds like it requires 100% commitment as you said in your other most recent video. I think the fear of commitment keeps me from choosing a direction and making a plan. Thus, as you said, it has become more difficult to find the motivation to make anything new or to finish my tracks. And if I don't change that mindset soon, then, well... I'm running out of time to see the fruition of my years of struggle. Thanks for the poke and dose of reality!
I think taking the leap is okay. It can be daunting in both coming up with answers and in creating the following music, but I don't think it's a one way street. You can change your answers and change your overall music-making foundation, and as many times as you want, even when doing so feels (again) daunting. I think maintaining a willing-to-change mindset throughout the process and also using tools like creative constraints (healthy ones, as they can make the process easier), etc. can make everything less stressful and more efficient.
You’ve made some good points. I’m an underground Greek conscious artist hip-hop artist who’s 0% successful, and I can say for a certainty that it all comes down to who you know. You can make commercial hip-hop songs till the cows come home, but nothing is going to happen if you don’t have contacts. You can’t just market yourself online without knowing anyone and without a fan base. It just doesn’t work that way. I’ve accepted the fact that I’m never going to be successful and that conscious hip-hop is only for a chosen few who have ears to hear and eyes to see!
I know the reason I make music and where I want to go with it. I know how to arrange music that's dynamic and interesting and I can finish a song 90% of the time I start one. I just don't know what I'm doing wrong beyond that. And I'm not saying that everything is perfect and that I don't have more to learn or room to improve. I just don't know how to attract an audience and cultivate a fan base. But I'm also willing to accept that people just don't like what I'm putting out.
A lot of people fail to focus on actually writing a good song. All the production techniques in the world can't make up for a song which has no depth to it. Perhaps focus on song writing, rather than techniques.
First of all, you have to not care. Or at least look like you don’t care. If you really want people to like it, follow trends. Better yet, make what you want and stand behind it. Be consistent and be as good at that thing as you possibly can be. And then make yourself work to get better.
To be honest, most music out there is mediocre or annoying. However Woody Allen has said he makes movies as a distraction of the reality that we’re all eventually going to die. So get involved with your music and be busy
Who is more likely to be content: the artist or the craftsman? True satisfaction comes from the taking on and fulfilling of responsibilities. If you understand that your responsibility as a musician is about mastering your craft, you will find greater success and fulfillment.
soooooo true! i ask myself similar questions everyday and by doing that i really got my priorities in check! Over the years ive learned that incentivizing my health and family/loved ones and GOING OUTSIDE really improved my musical output/experimentation , as well as my personal sense of direction as an artist. I know what its like to take long studio hours to the extreme, or those days of locking yourself away to just make music for myself. Ive gained so much confidence in myself by proving my versatility in private, but when its all said and done, my audience is just my handful of clients ive built through engineering and producing locally. They might like my music because they like me personally but because i never aimed to entertain a particular group of people with my music i just got caught up in making new stuff all the time and never thinking of the follow up for a proper roll out. A friend of mine is a pretty successful musician and ive got to pick his brain for hours on end and he made it very clear to me that he knows his target audience and who and what he makes his content for. Its not about making the perfect song that feels the most personal and emotionally immersive, its about setting a goal, running trials , analyzing performance and adding and subtracting variables. You can kind of look at it like you have to make sacrifices to get success. If your music is very personal to you and you want success as a musician you have to exploit your interests while chasing your dreams before you end up in a situation that exploits YOU! Stay focused my friends! I believe in you all! :D
Well said, wanting an audience and successful career as a musician or any other artists requires so many other skills and knowledge, and being able to understand people
Agree with most of this but I think having good music is only 70% of it. If you don't put the effort into building your "brand" (I hate that word lol) and building genuine connections with other people in the industry it doesn't matter how brilliant of a musician or songwriter you are, because nobody will ever hear you. Also, this kind of shit really fucks with your mental health if you commit to it. Sometimes fucking about with a synth or pedals or whatever just for the sake of it is really important. We have to remember what first made us want to pick up our instrument in order to remain inspired, otherwise we'll be serving other people more than ourselves. Key word here is balance.
Seriously though…. I think the key is picking a lane and sticking to it and FINISHING STUFF. I’m not a massive famous artist but all of my successes came when I finished something. My shirts and stickers have been spotted five, six, sometimes seven states away. When I play live, I know people know my songs because they’re singing them back at me. But there have been years where I didn’t progress at all and wasn’t very happy with where I was in life. And those are the periods where I didn’t finish and release anything. Find your voice, even if you think it sounds funny. Record that. And put it out into the world. And work to be a better version of yourself. Be honest. Brutally honest with yourself about how good you are at what you’re doing. It does not matter if you’re doing something so totally outside of what’s popular as long as you’re doing as much as possible to make it the most kick ass version of that thing.
Speaking the truth and in love mate. This resonates with me so much. I make music of course for myself but also that my peers will hear and enjoy it as well and plus they motivate me to do better and grow my sound. And definitely for my late dad who instilled a joy for music and really has been healing and another great creative medium that i truly can put focus and effort into learning and growing. So i totally agree when someone says they make music just for themselves, the motivation wont last long as opposed to a purpose and joy. Thanks as always for your insightful videos that speak what many of us are feeling but cant verbalize. Thank you!
Thanks for the questions and thanks for your honesty. These words that you convey from your truth are very much appreciated. And I totally agree in all, especially with the question and the final answer. It's a pleasure to follow you, and your inspirations in feelings and words really resonate with me. Total appreciation. When you add years, in my case, the current moment of immediacy with music and networks, everything you say makes even more sense. Thanks. As I always say; we hear each other through this sound universe.🙏🏾👌🏾🌠🎶😊😉
You speak a truth many musicians don’t want to hear or aren’t ready to hear. That’s a rare thing in this space. I always enjoy your reasoned opinions, even when I don’t fully agree. I will say that the art-for-art’s-sake thing can be enough for some, if they don’t aim to monetize and don’t place value on large algorithmic-driven views/sub counts; ‘recognition’ or validation is a relative, often subjective thing. A lot of outsider and fringe musicians are hobbyists who are grateful for the relatively small fan base they have. But you are dead right about this: creators who desire wider recognition and monetary/validation payoff need a focused marketing plan and strategy. I also think some creators need to go through the no-direction, music-for-me stage in order to find their voice and build confidence. It’s healthy to stumble around in the dark and find your footing before you move toward the light.
Yeah, i fully agree with you here. I've never seen music as a hobby and my channel has been built up around developing yourself as an artist and all the struggles that come from that. There is a burning desire in many of us i believe, but often we take the easy route. It takes a lot of courage and it's not for everyone, but for those who choose that path, I hope this helps 🙂
@@mredrollo You manage to successfully straddle music educator and music creator roles. You do it as well as anyone, especially the advice/education part. And I loved your last single. You’re really good at what you do in both realms. Your content has really helped me think and rethink my purpose.
I actually stumbled across you at the crossroads in my music making journey, and just so you know, I’m one of those people who needed this, so thank you! I’m having my first single mixed and mastered this week.
This is a tough but necessary message mr rollo! This is in line with what you said previously about picking a genre and sticking with it. After picking lofi as a genre, my spotify listenership and success has increased tremendously compared to where i was 3 years ago. As creatives, its difficult to swallow limitations, but picking a lane and sticking to it paradoxially can unleash ones creativity! I can attest to it !
100%. I have been struggling with motivation to make music the last few months. I've known it's in part due to a lack of direction, being unable to decide on what to focus on, what direction to go in. I feel the pull in multiple directions. Even when you know it's a problem, the solution is not easy! Unfortunately, it's not the only problem, but I agree it is among the most important.
I’m making music since the early 90s . Still today a true spiritual / motivation booster and nothing is going to change that for the next two decades . All about the music .
When I was about 18, nearly 40 years ago, my musical ambition was to have my music played in public by someone else. It wasn't to be rich or famous. Since then, I've had 3 f my tracks played on BBC Radio here in the UK, which I never thought I could have done. I think the key to having my goal realised was that I just made music for myself. I never tried to make the type of music that other people were making and I never tried to second-guess what I thought people would want.
@@mredrollo Yes. I had always wanted to have other people hear my music. But I always began with the idea that I was making music for myself, with the hope that others would also like it. That's what I meant when I said that I never tried to second-guess what I thought people would want.
Yes, I hear you. I'm roughly the same age. When I look back over my music endeavors, I feel really proud of what I've done. Enough recognition to validate my efforts and enough reality to know just how much I hate the business side of art/entertainment. In my mid 20s I came to some honest realizations about the scope of my talents and my level of ambition and set a path accordingly. Now at almost 60, I still *love* writing, playing, learning and listening to music. My 'day job' has still been fulfilling and supported me and my family well. Finding that honest balance is key.
@@wadehathawaymusic There's a lot of us about. People who recognise that we aren't going to be pop stars, but still making music part of our lives. It's a fantastic creative outlet that helps keeps my soul well-nourished.
I've decided to make music for movies Soundtracks And ambient music Where does that leave me ? I'm still in a tough situation It is so competitive in that world
I know you posted this a year ago, but I feel like you have a lot of possibility here. There was a second where people took that one silent scene out of one of the new star wars movies where the captain flew the ship through a fleet of enemy ships, and added sound to it. I feel like you could create a brand out of that -- taking your favorite scenes and redoing the music and sounds in it. Do that every day and I think you could get somewhere. I don't know you and Im not a pro by any means, so take this with a grain of salt if you want :)
Excellent video brother 🤍 , for those who haven’t seen like any progress creating what they like I’ll suggest jumping on some trends occasionally! Like if you have 5 working days in a week , spend 4 working on what you like and 1 day for what people need , that way you’ll have atleast some content ready which has potential to go viral overnight. Once something goes “viral” , you can introduce your own music to people and it’ll motivate you even more to make more music. Also learn marketing your music as it’s an essential skill to have as an independent artist :) In the end , i’ll say , just keep making music and posting regularly , don’t get demotivated with numbers as when your time will come , you’ll get more than what you imagine 🤍 Our job as an artist is to create art and occasionally jump on trends cuz we can ;) Hope everyone who’s reading this comment gets recognised for their unique and lovely work 😇 Stay positive 🤍
As a composer, I really appreciate your dead-on approach and wisdom. You nail it exactly as it is. I've watched a few of your videos and I have to tell you, you my friend are brilliant and I'll click subscribe right now. I am fortunate to get as many people listen to my stuff as I do. But I have given up trying to get "hits". Means nothing. I just write, produce and perform and as you say "fuck it". Just enjoy whatever happens even if it's nothing. I'm not sure why you write, but I write for therapy. Having said that, would enjoy listening to your music. It has to be good cause you are.
Yea I don’t think these topics are mutually exclusive. Just because one makes music for themselves doesn’t mean it’s not going to do well business wise and visa versa.
I'm the same as you was with the "Just making what ever I wanted" however a substantial amount of My music even 15 years ago was not actually rubbish, I did Hiip Hop, Drum n Bass, Techno, Hard house, trance and even rock music along side and other production. Alot of it sounds good however like you said in a previous video a brand needs focus, no point Me publishing a Trance tune if My brand is supposed be Hiphop or Boombap. Over the years multiple people were completely confused as to what music I make because what I make is so random. If I just do say Boombap then about 90% of My music is never to be published or sold.
Check out the Wikipedia article on how many brands were under the Tamla/Motown label group. It sounds like you've got at least one more brand in you. 💪
I think that most artists/producers need to do the "making music for yourself", making whatever comes out as part of the journey. At some point, if they stick with it then the mindset changes to wondering if there is an audience out there and then tweaking their music, concentrating on a style, genre, or sound as that audience is found. Without the just make stuff though, I think a lot of valuable lessons and self discovery is lost. It s true though that, with time making our own art we find that we need to an audience for it outside of ourselves. Getting recognition from 1,10, 100, 1000 other people helps validate our work and can encourage us to work harder.
I hear what you are saying and I understand that for most people recognition is what they want, and direction with a clear vision helps with that but..... Like masturbation, there is always room for doing things for yourself, and sometimes it feels good! Even when you do have a clear vision and direction it doesn't guarantee success in the arts, Van Gough only sold one painting while he was alive.
Ultimately we make music for ourselves, because we love it. But there comes a time when we need a greater purpose than "I like music". I mean... who doesn't?
@@mredrollo I have had some moments when I have fallen out of love with it. When it has become a chore and a grind. I think the key is the balance between purposeful motivation to produce a product and doing something you love. Too much focus on either and you end up with either burnout or as mentioned here self indulgent twaddle.
The Law of Equivalent Exchange, pretty much sums up the “Plan-Direction” path. The law of equivalent exchange simply states that for anything given you must receive something of people with greater value and for anything received or expected you must sacrifice or give something of equal or greater value.
@@mredrollo I myself am still researching, i’d really use a book as well sir. The universe basically accepts us as a conduit, afterwards intensive practice/planning. It is then we musicians develop the “Aural imagination”, y’know the way pianists can see every note before hitting. These things sir, just like us humans were all strategically and systematically designed with intention, we just have to figure out that pattern.
Oh and not just in music btw. People dont realize how much energy , love and time you put at building something and so frustrating they dont even say a word, like thank you or well done. I keep music as a hobby
Yes, this is the truth. Think more and ask yourself a bunch of "why"s. Music is not all fun and play. It's also feeling, but your feeling has to evolve. I watched interviews of Benny Andersson and Bjorn Ulvaeus from ABBA. 1. Andersson ( the composer ) said that he was going everyday in the studio, even in stressful days, even alone, to allow himself to feel the "employee" feeling, and he didn't just bathe in the blaze of stardom. He continually went through Bach scores in search for new ideas. 2. Ulvaeus ( the lyricist ) said that many other musicians are searching for an idea first, lyrics first, and only later the music arrangement. Only, he did the opposite : Inspired by Benny's arrangements, he later wrote the lyrics. They even have a song titled : I Let the Music Speak.
Great vid, I have written and produced many songs in different genres for most library companies, but the songs I have done for myself that I think are better than the library songs I have never released!!! It’s due to not having any following. Maybe one day I’ll finally find a way to release them so they get heard.
I've been playing and writing for 35 years, all as a studious hobbyist... I'm preparing my life to do a BMus at least in Jazz & Improvisation and composition (a double major of sorts) because i dont want to look back and wonder why didn't I/what if? If I'm going do it I'm going all out. Great perspective - thanks for the honest truth here.
I'm getting 5 likes for my weekly music on FB... Happy and fine with that :D After all if I can make one heart smile it is worth it...Isn't it? :D Great vid, subscribed
Mredrollo, Thank you for making this video! You make some excellent points and I share several aspects of your musical journey. But, I do not need a plan for my music -- I truly make music for myself. In a perfect world, I would hopefully earn the respect of my musician friends and family. I started out with the goal of creating "Song Sketches" -- thinking that I could play these sketches for a group of musicians in order to spark their creative input. The song framework would quickly evolve as the group's input developed. Beyond this limited group of musicians, I did not care if anyone else listened. Echoing what you said in your video, "no one cared". I really couldn't get anyone's attention or interest. So much for my efforts! In the long run, I am able to write music that matters to me. I can write what I want and enjoy the musical exploration. Thanks again!
I wasted about 20 years just churning out song after song, playing in 3-5 bands at a time, putting random songs on bancamp with under random names. Finally realized I was doing it wrong about a month ago and now I am so much more focused. I can't wait to get this motor running and see where it takes me. Good luck everyone!
What unheard musicians all seem to agree on, if they never met each other or anyone else...every one I've ever met has thought about all of these things their entire lives. After all that, they must be ready by now.
I am so glad I find your content man, I really like your honesty and you are not afraid to speak about the problem directly even if someone might get upset about it. Thank you so much it made me realize that I need to simplify my "path" if you will and be consistent with it. I have do couple of styles of music, but only 1-2 which go well together really resonate with me and they feel like they are "my thing". Thank you
It may be likely that a person who doesn't seek audience building doesn't have goals, but if such a person has goals outside of building an audience, you'd never find out about it.
creatives with ADHD (like, all of them?), need to hear this. I think of myself as a genre hopping butterfly, crosspolenizing styles as long as my attention is interested in them, but in reality I'm more like a moth, constantly flapping around in the dark repeatedly banging my head against the light of my own expansive, but unfocussed creativity. I think your opening line about taking the time to set up, but tripping over the light was a bit of an unintended metaphor.
No ones heard my music hardly and I'm happy as Larry. I hear a lot of producers and music creators on you tube say they 're not fulfilled because they struggle to finish songs and I think its because they aren't really writing songs - they're creating ideas by getting a groove or a beat going first and then after the initial creative spark they run out of ideas and end up throwing in some lyrics that just fit a melody but have no deep personal meaning. I've stopped writing songs now after many years at it as I've got too many. I've probably written 160 - 170 songs and out of that I'd say about 30 - 40 are really worth recording and producing. What I've learned is that If it's a good song it can hold its own with just one instrument like a piano/guitar and a voice and when you play it live if it's any good people in the audience will stop what they're doing and tune in. That's been enough for me so far. I'd rather reach ten real people in a pub or at an open mic then 10,000 virtual people on the internet.
@@mredrollo Thanks man - believe it or not that's what I'm doing atm - learning some production skills, re-making tracks, so that I can do those songs - I'm enjoying it but it's a totally different world to just writing, all part of the journey though. Really like what you talk about on your channel- keep on making great content - I reckon it's helping a lot of people :)
Hello. I'm music producer from Ukraine and I'm start making some progres only in last couple years, but I'm almost 32 now 🥲 But now I'm think about my music not only just for something creative but like about product and learn how to prepare and sell it. But its still harder and harder.
I feel you on some points but I actually make music because I just love to make music. never once did it for fans or money or to be heard or recognized. music always has and always will be a release for me. I don't do it for you or anyone else that decides to listen. im grateful for the people that do of course. its a great feeling when someone appreciates your work but its silly to put everyone in this phantom box you speak of
Most people are in love with being rich and famous, not music. No vision, no direction, just the hunger for recognition and nothing to say. But theres nothing wrong with having a dream.
For most people,music should be done as stress relief and a hobby. If you are not a super talent then you have to be super original to get some kind of recognition. You have to be an alternative to the mainstream. It is still hard to get heard being original but it will help your mental state.
I didnt watch the video, but let me encourage starting musicians: One of my songs blew up in the first year bringing me 2 million streams and 5k $ I did 0 effort to promote it (cuz i didnt quite knew how). Believe in yourself.
Man, I paint, write and make music almost all of my life and I'm 56 now. And I do it for myself, and I'm very happy this way. You know, I had a teacher when I was sixteen who told me I should quit painting because I didn't have enough ambition and discipline hahaha. Well, from all those disciplined , who worked so hard, (so not like me I only do it when I enjoy it) how many are still creating stuff now.... you think? Because if fame ore recognition is your drive and it dousn't work out, what's gonna be your drive then? You have your opinion but I don't agree. There are artist who died unknown and became known later, there are others who where known while alive and who are forgotten. In the end it will all be forgotten. For me the importance of my creativity can't be judged by others, it's a personal religious act. If others enjoy it that's fine with me, if not so what? For me art is all freedom, I'm simply a playing child. I had a million jobs, and they gave me kinds of inspiration I wouldn't have being only occupied with music. Why should I feel important? The purest art is made by children and if their mom or friend like it that's enough for them, and they forget it and go on with life..... I stay fresh, don't want to suffer while playing... the feeling of having no fixed goal is the endless source of energy for me🌼 and you can't know If my music will be heard man!..........👓There's no formula for the success so many people are desperately looking for,.... but you can try to sell it here and hope it works for you, get more views, feel right,...etc....EGO STUFF... why the hell should someone care about my creations? If somebody does, fantastic! If not,.... well the most joyful and important part is already gone... CREATING !
I had that reconnection moment with myself after feeling like "gosh, I really suck at this, nobody cares," but that's on me. If not even the music artist themselves listen to their own music, why should THEY expect others to listen to their tracks? And ultimately, not only did I discover how my tastes changed since last listening to every last track I had on the channel, but I discovered that I'm not particularly bad, but what's keeping me from making "enjoyable" music than just "decent" is mostly the lack of impact. That is the step I will need to address in my own music, and simple marketing, even if just sharing with some people you know or on a discord server. Ultimately, when reconnecting with my music, I also discovered why most people will probably never listen to it: it's rhythm game music. Very hard to market music that has borderline no real genre, is inspired by asian rhythm/music games that never get played on the radio. Not only do most tracks sound different, you need to give them your uninterrupted time to just relax, enjoy, and probably get hyped if it's a hyper-fast song. The most likely place you'll manage to get that combination of circumstances is when they're playing YOUR track that's been selected to debut in a rhythm game. The people who know will know how to get featured and leave the outsiders in the dust. In the end, if I don't really get much because of my incompetence, I can be happy I just sat down and did something instead of making excuses. I noticed this is what's holding back most people who want to make music. "Oh, you gotta know music theory," "You need this sick DAW and buy all this equipment, and" shut up for a minute... And create with what you have. GLTA
The problem isn't you or your music, its the fact that it would take me many lifetimes to listen to the first thirty seconds of everything ever recorded up to now. The odds of me listening to and liking your work are far greater than me winning the lottery.
The biggest lesson you might learn is who you’re tagging as influences/sounds like content on a UA-cam or SoundCloud upload. Can you even list one? You should have sharpened your sound to where you can list a good handful of other artists in a fairly tight genre. Fit instance it’s probably not a good idea to put Brian Eno and Rick James on that list. You’ll just confuse people. If you can’t choose a genre from the drop down list, then you truly are the arts for arts sake person he’s talking about
"I make music for me." That's something I don't hear via producer Twitter. Plenty of "beat makers" making beats and hustling "this sample pack is available beatstars...." However, there was something I thought about the other day: "The art is the process, not the product." I even tweeted about it during a conversation, having pondered it for months. Good to see you back in my subs notifications!
It took me about an hour to find your channel! I realised I wasn't subscribed and I searched through 1000+ videos on my watch later list and looked for you on my other UA-cam channel I was thinking I need to find this calming dude who looks like a yog and teaches music productiom and finally I found you... Anyways man why did you stop making videos?
Just been focusing on music full time. UA-cam can definitely wait! Have a few goals I want to kick, I’ve kicked a couple already but still more on that list.
Disagreed, mate. I see your point, but if your music does not sounds good when it's made for the sake of making good art, you're probably not making that much of effort to sound good to you. Maybe you care more about the others opinion than yours. Of course you can learn with others, have references, inspirations... but come on, "this intro is sick, but I'll cut it off because people now have ADD".
Holll up a minute.. All this, I need to get recognized, I need people to listen to my music, I need, I need.. Mr.edrollo, I make music purely for therapy, and I am not ashamed to admit it. Music is something totally different from all these different perspectives. Ok you can push me into that last category then, if that makes you feel any more right about your take on music. For me it's actually been lifesaving. Yeah, It's that important to me. I also do it to learn. I don't only hone my skills with different instruments, but also streaming, pc's, camera gear, light. Recognition would only be a particle of what making music is for me. I can still make a brand either way.
I'm not attached to recognition. I see a lot of what you're saying and it has merit but it all hinges on that attachment. I don't find that to be a good motive for making music and I'm someone who really, really struggles with making music. I can't afford to have that extra burden if neediness. That said, I also have an innate ability to do stuff that just works and I know a lot of people don't have that. And I do accept there are parallel markets for covers and pop and dross on the one hand and those few listeners looking for heartfelt expression on the other. I am, very late in life, finding ways to balance those things but recognition is only a necessary evil. It will never be a goal for me, just part of the process. I don't need to feel special, I just need to do what I was put here to do. If my accountant needs to feel special, I'll find another accountant.
If I was 40 years younger this great advice would be invaluable, but after spending a lifetime involved with music, I conclude that the main factor to attract people (in big quantity), to listen too and recognise your music, is based on how you look. The music you make becomes secondary to the image you portray, people will take notice if you look like someone they can relate to, or you look like you are serious about your music. Being a 60 year old, natural, normal, family man, that makes electronic music, doesnt offer anyone a visual element unless you're already a big name, from a time when the music business was in fact a business and not created by millions of home studio musicians, UA-cam and social media influencers.
In Creating Art for yourself the idea is if you have good taste and make music you yourself like - then automatically some others will also like it. Maybe a few, maybe a million - but some people will. IMO the real issue is many musicians dont have good taste and sometimes think their bad music is good. Lets face it - if its good - you could play it on a street corner and people would want to hear more or maybe buy it. - Or put it on youtube and the same thing. If its good - even if only 2 or 3 or 5 people hear it at first - it will spread. If it aint spreading - write something else - and be sure you like it - Cuz why would you expect others to like it if you dont? Or I could be totally wrong. Im still trying too.
Yeah, that's true. It is so much work, too much for just having fun for yourself. If It was like that, I would be fine playing guitar one or two hours every two or three weeks. I get a little jealous about EDM producers, when the first sketch of their ideas ends up with a full production, and I need a full day only for programming the drums. I make a sketch of my song and then a demo, then a preproduction and finally THE production itself and I am still not happy with it when it ends up sounding like any random artist xyz. But since I am developing a specific style for me that gives me a frame and guidance (even when the process is not finished), it takes away a lot of brainwork and doubts. This and my progress in mixing gave me the amount of energy that I need to carry on with it. Now I am over 50 so I do not expect to get famous anymore, but beeing recognized still is my goal. Hope that my mixing skills reach the needed quality level when I am ok with what I found as "my" style of music.
In the age of high quality productions due to the amazing tech we have, we forget that music is not only about the perfect sound. Music has to tell a story, it should have a message that resonate with people. In this age it's very difficult, because you are no longer free to express yourself and most people are way too afraid to do so. As a result, you can hear all the shallow, try-hard, high quality productions that are, at best, a one-time-listen. Also, I think most people do not see the hard work successful musicians put it. We need success and fame! When do we need it? Now! Copy-paste, rinse repeat, because many seem to believe if someone made it, copying that someone a million times will produce a million successful "artists"... Nope. There's something important missing: a message. Metallica is a good example. I saw a documentary recently about them and how they produced one of their recent albums. They were saying that back in the days each of the band members were basically responsible for their own area. E.g. the singer wrote the lyrics and was doing the singing. The documentary showed that with their recent album they sat together as a "team" to **figure out** the lyrics. As a result, they put together words and phrases and they themselves were then trying to figure out what the hell was the meaning of it, what was the "message" of the "thing" because, well, there wasn't any. And this is something you can feel as a listener. That's exactly why I, for example, cannot listen to their new work, even though I know they are all excellent musicians. Stop copying others and watching videos like "how to sound like ". Start making music just for fun, try to find yourself, your sound and the message you want to convey. Shift focus from excellent production quality to excellent music. The rest will come **in time**.
Part 1: Hello mredrollo! I'm a year late to add my two cents to this video. But.. better late than never.. So, I read through all 317 comments and listened to the video 4 times. Your message is reaching musicians from all over the spectrum, so there are many different entry points concerning how musicians will wrap their heads around this subject philosophically. First off I want to say that I agree with you as it pertains to the general statement you seem to be making with this video. Basically, if a musician knows what kind of music they're making, how they're going to make it and why they're making it, then they have a direction. A direction is paramount because, as you said, without it, a musician is not going to be productive and will likely make less music with less quality for probably less time as well.. The person will probably fall well short of reaching their full potential musically in this scenario… And that person may just walk away from music for months or years at a time… maybe forever.. "giving up" on music all together. Many have done this, and many will continue to do it. For some, it's part of their journey, to get involved with music deeply, not have a vision for what, how and why their doing it, and just "fall off".. Some will be bitter and blame the "system".. Some will accept that maybe they just weren't cut out for it.. For some, the timing was never right because of something called "real life" … So, as I said, I agree with the main message of your video. Here's the beginning of my two cents. Because all musicians are evolving, and all are in process, and some are a lot more immature as people and musicians compared to others, that there will be musicians, who may try to incorporate the "What", "How" and "Why" construct that you've specified in your video, who will never be able to answer those three basic questions. A musical "identity crisis" so to speak. Because not all musicians, or people, are created "equal". As at least one other commentor stated, some people, are not musicians, but they love music on a level that they desperately want to be musicians. So, with the tools that we have nowadays, they jump out there and want to claim to their friends and family that they are a musician or a producer or whatever. And.. inevitably they run into issues and they may second guess what they are doing and eventually "bow out". Now, if you're reading this and you think that I may be talking about you, there's no reason to be concerned. Over time, with self-reflection and basic trial and error, the answer will be clear as to what you should do in time. Sometimes it might be the right choice, even if a person is a highly skilled and talented musician, to walk away from music for a time.. Or maybe forever as well. There's no written rule or agreed upon paradigm that says that just because someone is wired up with the right genes to be the next musical genius, that the person "should" go forward pursuing music at all costs. Sometimes there are costs that can't be paid in this life. Life is unjust at its core. Imagine how many beautiful, talented, amazing people's lives were cut short because of a whole host of circumstances that were beyond their control. And you and I are no better than them..
I don't write for other people of for money, just for the pure joy of creating music. You waste your time trying to please people. Don't want or need recognition.
A few months ago youtube recommended "Stop Trying To Become A Music Producer" and back then I was like hours away from giving up on this whole music making hobby because of how much I didn't believe in myself, and that video just somehow gave me the motivation I needed to continue on with my dream, and now I finished a record and released it because of that boost you gave me. I would just like to thank you for inspiring me sir ❤
Moby said ‘make music for your friends’ - that totally works for me. And if i can listen to my music and enjoy it over new worldwide hits that sound irritating, i did not fail. No matter how small my ‘audience’ is
Excellent advice. I do the same!
It's a difficult balance. Personally I think you'll ultimately be happier making music you really connect with, rather than making music you think other people want to hear.
Agreed
That’s pretty much what I do and when I get my “plays” total every week from Apple Music and see zeros, the reality is strong. Lol. I enjoy making music, but I’m never expecting many if any people to listen to it, but I still put it out there.
I don't think that was the point of this video. It's not that you should only try to make music based on what you think others will like. I would say unless you are writing jingles or something for strictly commercial reasons, most artists write stuff they connect with. It's simply asking yourself why you are making music and what are your goals. I'm sure there are people who only do it for themselves, which makes them happy and that's fine. I'd say that's pretty rare. Most people want recognition and others to like their music. And if you want to actually make a living as a musician, the "only doing if for yourself" mentality won't take you very far.
In its most simplest form, yes I completely agree. This video is much deeper than that though.
yess! it's the reason I started and the reason I'll keep going! I really just like the experience of creating the exact music I want to listen to. but hey, posting music is a great bonus to that too!
Quite a long time ago I gave up of external validation and now I just make music for myself and the people who play it with me. Music has become a center point for my social life and personal gratification. Ever since then I have enjoyed making music much more
I will still get family members and friends asking “why don’t you try to do something with your music?” And my response is twofold:
1) my music is out there for free and my closest friends and family don’t even listen to it, the musicians that lay on it don’t even really listen to it. If that audience isn’t interested then I shouldn’t expect the general population to listen
2) why would I want music to be my pain-in-the-ass job? I make what I want when I want, it’s my fulfilling hobby right now and turning professional and playing crowd pleasing music would ruin my therapeutic hobby
My approach isn’t for everyone, but I did answer those “why” questions a long time ago and it gives my music purpose and makes it more enjoyable. And as a casual musician, I put quite a bit of hard work and effort into my music, more than many musicians that consider themselves more “serious”
If you want to make music for yourself, then you've already succeeded! That's it, done! It can be literally anything you want.
As soon as you complain it's not "doing well" or "being heard" then it's not for you is it! That's a completely separate thing. Adding external success factors as criteria have to inevitably change why it's made in the first place.
Here's my #1 pro tip as a graphic designer that also applies to music: Build a frame in which your music making is only allowed to take place. Another term for this could be "voluntary constraints". In other words, before you even write or play the first note, you have made a conscious decision about the limitations you will apply to the song. This could be choices about which kind of sounds you gonna use, genre, feel etc. This way, you have built a frame that limits the choices you can make when actually writing a track. You could take this even further and make conscious decisions beforehand about which kind of audience the track should be for or for which market. When creating logos, luckily these kind of helpful restrictions are determined by the nature of the business i'm doing a logo for , their core values, their USP, their competition, their market, their customers etc. These predetermined restrictions allow me to not be overwhelmed with the "too many options" paralysis, something that could happen when making art for the sake of art, something logos are not. But you can apply the same idea to any kind of art: Simply set some rules before you even start. Believe me, there's a reason why i call this my #1 tip.
yes, it is correct. This is called style and technique
Have definitely seen this work for visual artists, maintaining a solid aesthetic keeps your stuff recognisable
A friend gave my CD to the local lo-power FM radio station. Since then it's spread through all of the tri-state lo-power stations and even as far as Israel, Australia, and Russia... that I know of.
That’s a good friend right there
Fuck yeah!
What CD?
@@CenterThePendulum i think he meant his music/songs
I’d love to hear it actually! I’m from the Tristate myself, NJ, and yeah its hard out here to get your music played or heard out here especially in South Jersey…
You're speaking facts here. As someone who is a music producer myself, I feel this way. You earned a subscriber.
Having a direction and a plan sounds like it requires 100% commitment as you said in your other most recent video. I think the fear of commitment keeps me from choosing a direction and making a plan. Thus, as you said, it has become more difficult to find the motivation to make anything new or to finish my tracks. And if I don't change that mindset soon, then, well... I'm running out of time to see the fruition of my years of struggle. Thanks for the poke and dose of reality!
Make a UA-cam or/and Soundcloud account with one theme. One style.
Than uploud a Track every week on the same time.
You are now making steps.
I think taking the leap is okay. It can be daunting in both coming up with answers and in creating the following music, but I don't think it's a one way street. You can change your answers and change your overall music-making foundation, and as many times as you want, even when doing so feels (again) daunting. I think maintaining a willing-to-change mindset throughout the process and also using tools like creative constraints (healthy ones, as they can make the process easier), etc. can make everything less stressful and more efficient.
You’ve made some good points. I’m an underground Greek conscious artist hip-hop artist who’s 0% successful, and I can say for a certainty that it all comes down to who you know. You can make commercial hip-hop songs till the cows come home, but nothing is going to happen if you don’t have contacts. You can’t just market yourself online without knowing anyone and without a fan base. It just doesn’t work that way. I’ve accepted the fact that I’m never going to be successful and that conscious hip-hop is only for a chosen few who have ears to hear and eyes to see!
No matter if your audience listen to your music or not, staying obsessional to your passion forces you going forwards at all costs.
Yeah, also can be a little toxic. You may fall into the trap of “all execution and no theory” never developing or evolving just staying “obsessed”.
I know the reason I make music and where I want to go with it. I know how to arrange music that's dynamic and interesting and I can finish a song 90% of the time I start one. I just don't know what I'm doing wrong beyond that. And I'm not saying that everything is perfect and that I don't have more to learn or room to improve. I just don't know how to attract an audience and cultivate a fan base. But I'm also willing to accept that people just don't like what I'm putting out.
A lot of people fail to focus on actually writing a good song. All the production techniques in the world can't make up for a song which has no depth to it. Perhaps focus on song writing, rather than techniques.
It's 100 %, the focus. I don't worry about technique.
I checked your videos, and i TOTALY understand your point of view. (I wish I read that before i put out my pulp fiction-like comment).
First of all, you have to not care. Or at least look like you don’t care. If you really want people to like it, follow trends. Better yet, make what you want and stand behind it. Be consistent and be as good at that thing as you possibly can be. And then make yourself work to get better.
To be honest, most music out there is mediocre or annoying. However Woody Allen has said he makes movies as a distraction of the reality that we’re all eventually going to die. So get involved with your music and be busy
Who is more likely to be content: the artist or the craftsman? True satisfaction comes from the taking on and fulfilling of responsibilities. If you understand that your responsibility as a musician is about mastering your craft, you will find greater success and fulfillment.
Oooohh I love this.
*When You Give, You Receive*
As Simple As That
Every word is right. I made exact the same experiences.
soooooo true! i ask myself similar questions everyday and by doing that i really got my priorities in check! Over the years ive learned that incentivizing my health and family/loved ones and GOING OUTSIDE really improved my musical output/experimentation , as well as my personal sense of direction as an artist. I know what its like to take long studio hours to the extreme, or those days of locking yourself away to just make music for myself. Ive gained so much confidence in myself by proving my versatility in private, but when its all said and done, my audience is just my handful of clients ive built through engineering and producing locally. They might like my music because they like me personally but because i never aimed to entertain a particular group of people with my music i just got caught up in making new stuff all the time and never thinking of the follow up for a proper roll out.
A friend of mine is a pretty successful musician and ive got to pick his brain for hours on end and he made it very clear to me that he knows his target audience and who and what he makes his content for. Its not about making the perfect song that feels the most personal and emotionally immersive, its about setting a goal, running trials , analyzing performance and adding and subtracting variables.
You can kind of look at it like you have to make sacrifices to get success. If your music is very personal to you and you want success as a musician you have to exploit your interests while chasing your dreams before you end up in a situation that exploits YOU!
Stay focused my friends! I believe in you all! :D
Well said, wanting an audience and successful career as a musician or any other artists requires so many other skills and knowledge, and being able to understand people
Agree with most of this but I think having good music is only 70% of it. If you don't put the effort into building your "brand" (I hate that word lol) and building genuine connections with other people in the industry it doesn't matter how brilliant of a musician or songwriter you are, because nobody will ever hear you. Also, this kind of shit really fucks with your mental health if you commit to it. Sometimes fucking about with a synth or pedals or whatever just for the sake of it is really important. We have to remember what first made us want to pick up our instrument in order to remain inspired, otherwise we'll be serving other people more than ourselves. Key word here is balance.
Seriously though…. I think the key is picking a lane and sticking to it and FINISHING STUFF. I’m not a massive famous artist but all of my successes came when I finished something. My shirts and stickers have been spotted five, six, sometimes seven states away. When I play live, I know people know my songs because they’re singing them back at me. But there have been years where I didn’t progress at all and wasn’t very happy with where I was in life. And those are the periods where I didn’t finish and release anything. Find your voice, even if you think it sounds funny. Record that. And put it out into the world. And work to be a better version of yourself. Be honest. Brutally honest with yourself about how good you are at what you’re doing. It does not matter if you’re doing something so totally outside of what’s popular as long as you’re doing as much as possible to make it the most kick ass version of that thing.
Speaking the truth and in love mate. This resonates with me so much.
I make music of course for myself but also that my peers will hear and enjoy it as well and plus they motivate me to do better and grow my sound. And definitely for my late dad who instilled a joy for music and really has been healing and another great creative medium that i truly can put focus and effort into learning and growing.
So i totally agree when someone says they make music just for themselves, the motivation wont last long as opposed to a purpose and joy. Thanks as always for your insightful videos that speak what many of us are feeling but cant verbalize. Thank you!
Only within the past year or two have I found "my sound"... now I just have to overcome my dislike/hatred for social media.
Thanks for the questions and thanks for your honesty. These words that you convey from your truth are very much appreciated.
And I totally agree in all, especially with the question and the final answer.
It's a pleasure to follow you, and your inspirations in feelings and words really resonate with me. Total appreciation.
When you add years, in my case, the current moment of immediacy with music and networks, everything you say makes even more sense. Thanks.
As I always say; we hear each other through this sound universe.🙏🏾👌🏾🌠🎶😊😉
I approach it with Van Gogh in mind. They may not like it now, but in a few decades. You gotta build it to last.
You speak a truth many musicians don’t want to hear or aren’t ready to hear. That’s a rare thing in this space. I always enjoy your reasoned opinions, even when I don’t fully agree. I will say that the art-for-art’s-sake thing can be enough for some, if they don’t aim to monetize and don’t place value on large algorithmic-driven views/sub counts; ‘recognition’ or validation is a relative, often subjective thing. A lot of outsider and fringe musicians are hobbyists who are grateful for the relatively small fan base they have. But you are dead right about this: creators who desire wider recognition and monetary/validation payoff need a focused marketing plan and strategy. I also think some creators need to go through the no-direction, music-for-me stage in order to find their voice and build confidence. It’s healthy to stumble around in the dark and find your footing before you move toward the light.
Yeah, i fully agree with you here. I've never seen music as a hobby and my channel has been built up around developing yourself as an artist and all the struggles that come from that. There is a burning desire in many of us i believe, but often we take the easy route. It takes a lot of courage and it's not for everyone, but for those who choose that path, I hope this helps 🙂
@@mredrollo You manage to successfully straddle music educator and music creator roles. You do it as well as anyone, especially the advice/education part. And I loved your last single. You’re really good at what you do in both realms. Your content has really helped me think and rethink my purpose.
I actually stumbled across you at the crossroads in my music making journey, and just so you know, I’m one of those people who needed this, so thank you! I’m having my first single mixed and mastered this week.
This is a tough but necessary message mr rollo! This is in line with what you said previously about picking a genre and sticking with it. After picking lofi as a genre, my spotify listenership and success has increased tremendously compared to where i was 3 years ago. As creatives, its difficult to swallow limitations, but picking a lane and sticking to it paradoxially can unleash ones creativity! I can attest to it !
Yes, my man! 💪
100%. I have been struggling with motivation to make music the last few months. I've known it's in part due to a lack of direction, being unable to decide on what to focus on, what direction to go in. I feel the pull in multiple directions. Even when you know it's a problem, the solution is not easy!
Unfortunately, it's not the only problem, but I agree it is among the most important.
I’m making music since the early 90s . Still today a true spiritual / motivation booster and nothing is going to change that for the next two decades . All about the music .
Man. I learn so much from your channel. People really just throw platitudes out there instead of telling the truth.
When I was about 18, nearly 40 years ago, my musical ambition was to have my music played in public by someone else. It wasn't to be rich or famous. Since then, I've had 3 f my tracks played on BBC Radio here in the UK, which I never thought I could have done. I think the key to having my goal realised was that I just made music for myself. I never tried to make the type of music that other people were making and I never tried to second-guess what I thought people would want.
Congrats mate, that’s awesome! I have to say though, this clearly states you made music for other people. Your goal was exactly that 🙂
@@mredrollo Yes. I had always wanted to have other people hear my music. But I always began with the idea that I was making music for myself, with the hope that others would also like it. That's what I meant when I said that I never tried to second-guess what I thought people would want.
@@rocknets what kind of music did you make?
Yes, I hear you. I'm roughly the same age. When I look back over my music endeavors, I feel really proud of what I've done. Enough recognition to validate my efforts and enough reality to know just how much I hate the business side of art/entertainment. In my mid 20s I came to some honest realizations about the scope of my talents and my level of ambition and set a path accordingly. Now at almost 60, I still *love* writing, playing, learning and listening to music. My 'day job' has still been fulfilling and supported me and my family well. Finding that honest balance is key.
@@wadehathawaymusic There's a lot of us about. People who recognise that we aren't going to be pop stars, but still making music part of our lives. It's a fantastic creative outlet that helps keeps my soul well-nourished.
I've decided to make music for movies
Soundtracks
And ambient music
Where does that leave me ?
I'm still in a tough situation
It is so competitive in that world
I know you posted this a year ago, but I feel like you have a lot of possibility here. There was a second where people took that one silent scene out of one of the new star wars movies where the captain flew the ship through a fleet of enemy ships, and added sound to it. I feel like you could create a brand out of that -- taking your favorite scenes and redoing the music and sounds in it. Do that every day and I think you could get somewhere. I don't know you and Im not a pro by any means, so take this with a grain of salt if you want :)
@@donniemp3 I became a painter 6 months ago, so im onto that!
Excellent video brother 🤍 , for those who haven’t seen like any progress creating what they like
I’ll suggest jumping on some trends occasionally!
Like if you have 5 working days in a week , spend 4 working on what you like and 1 day for what people need , that way you’ll have atleast some content ready which has potential to go viral overnight.
Once something goes “viral” , you can introduce your own music to people and it’ll motivate you even more to make more music.
Also learn marketing your music as it’s an essential skill to have as an independent artist :)
In the end , i’ll say , just keep making music and posting regularly , don’t get demotivated with numbers as when your time will come , you’ll get more than what you imagine 🤍
Our job as an artist is to create art and occasionally jump on trends cuz we can ;)
Hope everyone who’s reading this comment gets recognised for their unique and lovely work 😇
Stay positive 🤍
As a composer, I really appreciate your dead-on approach and wisdom. You nail it exactly as it is. I've watched a few of your videos and I have to tell you, you my friend are brilliant and I'll click subscribe right now. I am fortunate to get as many people listen to my stuff as I do. But I have given up trying to get "hits". Means nothing. I just write, produce and perform and as you say "fuck it". Just enjoy whatever happens even if it's nothing. I'm not sure why you write, but I write for therapy. Having said that, would enjoy listening to your music. It has to be good cause you are.
I really appreciate that :)
Hope you've been well man, I miss seeing your videos in my feed. Have you been able to check out Ableton 12?
Doing well mate. Just focusing on other areas of life 🙂 I’ll be back though. Soon I think.
@@mredrolloglad to hear it!
I really needed this video today. Thank you for this.
Yea I don’t think these topics are mutually exclusive. Just because one makes music for themselves doesn’t mean it’s not going to do well business wise and visa versa.
I'm the same as you was with the "Just making what ever I wanted" however a substantial amount of My music even 15 years ago was not actually rubbish, I did Hiip Hop, Drum n Bass, Techno, Hard house, trance and even rock music along side and other production. Alot of it sounds good however like you said in a previous video a brand needs focus, no point Me publishing a Trance tune if My brand is supposed be Hiphop or Boombap. Over the years multiple people were completely confused as to what music I make because what I make is so random. If I just do say Boombap then about 90% of My music is never to be published or sold.
This is great to hear mate!
Check out the Wikipedia article on how many brands were under the Tamla/Motown label group. It sounds like you've got at least one more brand in you. 💪
thanks for keeping it real
I think that most artists/producers need to do the "making music for yourself", making whatever comes out as part of the journey. At some point, if they stick with it then the mindset changes to wondering if there is an audience out there and then tweaking their music, concentrating on a style, genre, or sound as that audience is found. Without the just make stuff though, I think a lot of valuable lessons and self discovery is lost. It s true though that, with time making our own art we find that we need to an audience for it outside of ourselves. Getting recognition from 1,10, 100, 1000 other people helps validate our work and can encourage us to work harder.
A lot can be said on this topic but I’d also add early artists can smother the process by being “different” and the quality of their music.
I hear what you are saying and I understand that for most people recognition is what they want, and direction with a clear vision helps with that but.....
Like masturbation, there is always room for doing things for yourself, and sometimes it feels good!
Even when you do have a clear vision and direction it doesn't guarantee success in the arts, Van Gough only sold one painting while he was alive.
Ultimately we make music for ourselves, because we love it. But there comes a time when we need a greater purpose than "I like music". I mean... who doesn't?
@@mredrollo I have had some moments when I have fallen out of love with it. When it has become a chore and a grind. I think the key is the balance between purposeful motivation to produce a product and doing something you love. Too much focus on either and you end up with either burnout or as mentioned here self indulgent twaddle.
Thanks for making this video. Many successful artists only have a few hit songs. It's not easy!
Hits are inevitable when you just focus on doing your thing 💪
Thank you for releasing this.. Something that people can 'recognise'.. That cut deep! :)
It felt nice when that just slipped out. Off the cuff vids are beautiful that way 🙂
Yeah man, the struggle is real. Over 10 years making music and now slowy getting audience.
The Law of Equivalent Exchange, pretty much sums up the “Plan-Direction” path.
The law of equivalent exchange simply states that for anything given you must receive something of people with greater value and for anything received or expected you must sacrifice or give something of equal or greater value.
Oh I like this. Is there a good book on this? Sounds like the law of reciprocity also.
@@mredrollo I myself am still researching, i’d really use a book as well sir.
The universe basically accepts us as a conduit, afterwards intensive practice/planning. It is then we musicians develop the “Aural imagination”, y’know the way pianists can see every note before hitting.
These things sir, just like us humans were all strategically and systematically designed with intention, we just have to figure out that pattern.
I loved this it really nailed the quandary on the head. Pity some people are missing the deeper message. Great stuff.
Ahhh it’s inevitable mate! Thanks for the support ❤️
Thanks.
Spot on.
Oh and not just in music btw. People dont realize how much energy , love and time you put at building something and so frustrating they dont even say a word, like thank you or well done.
I keep music as a hobby
Yes, this is the truth. Think more and ask yourself a bunch of "why"s. Music is not all fun and play. It's also feeling, but your feeling has to evolve. I watched interviews of Benny Andersson and Bjorn Ulvaeus from ABBA. 1. Andersson ( the composer ) said that he was going everyday in the studio, even in stressful days, even alone, to allow himself to feel the "employee" feeling, and he didn't just bathe in the blaze of stardom. He continually went through Bach scores in search for new ideas. 2. Ulvaeus ( the lyricist ) said that many other musicians are searching for an idea first, lyrics first, and only later the music arrangement. Only, he did the opposite : Inspired by Benny's arrangements, he later wrote the lyrics. They even have a song titled : I Let the Music Speak.
Ahhh sounds like a great interview, I'll have to check it out!
@@mredrollo Not sure, but I think it's this one : ua-cam.com/video/PXXD4MeowIs/v-deo.html
Great vid, I have written and produced many songs in different genres for most library companies, but the songs I have done for myself that I think are better than the library songs I have never released!!! It’s due to not having any following. Maybe one day I’ll finally find a way to release them so they get heard.
I've been playing and writing for 35 years, all as a studious hobbyist...
I'm preparing my life to do a BMus at least in Jazz & Improvisation and composition (a double major of sorts) because i dont want to look back and wonder why didn't I/what if? If I'm going do it I'm going all out.
Great perspective - thanks for the honest truth here.
this is one THOUSAND percent true.
Glad to hear it 😉
I'm getting 5 likes for my weekly music on FB... Happy and fine with that :D After all if I can make one heart smile it is worth it...Isn't it? :D Great vid, subscribed
Even if this is the truth that you are speaking, at least we are able to publish music.
A blessing and a curse. Just because we can, doesn’t mean we should.
@@mredrolloYes
Thank you for this! You eloquently put into words many things I've been feeling lately.
Glad to hear it. Thank you 😊
Mredrollo,
Thank you for making this video! You make some excellent points and I share several aspects of your musical journey. But, I do not need a plan for my music -- I truly make music for myself. In a perfect world, I would hopefully earn the respect of my musician friends and family. I started out with the goal of creating "Song Sketches" -- thinking that I could play these sketches for a group of musicians in order to spark their creative input. The song framework would quickly evolve as the group's input developed. Beyond this limited group of musicians, I did not care if anyone else listened.
Echoing what you said in your video, "no one cared". I really couldn't get anyone's attention or interest. So much for my efforts!
In the long run, I am able to write music that matters to me. I can write what I want and enjoy the musical exploration.
Thanks again!
I wasted about 20 years just churning out song after song, playing in 3-5 bands at a time, putting random songs on bancamp with under random names. Finally realized I was doing it wrong about a month ago and now I am so much more focused. I can't wait to get this motor running and see where it takes me. Good luck everyone!
nice video mate. this is a really good topic, tks for the honesty.
Thank you
We can never become truly influential as artists, until we learn that sarcasm will lead us to success so much faster than a hit recording.
What unheard musicians all seem to agree on, if they never met each other or anyone else...every one I've ever met has thought about all of these things their entire lives. After all that, they must be ready by now.
Where are yoooooooooooooooooooooo..??????????????????????
👀
I have NO Clue as Yet ! I am getting somewhere learning guitar not being stopped by anything yet. ALL Good Thanks for this !
Steven Pressfield's "Nobody Wants to Read Your Shit" is in a similar vein and well worth a look. In fact all his books are great.
I want to read his shit
Oh wow, I've only read the War of Art and Turing Pro, this one sounds great though! Thank you! 🙂
I am so glad I find your content man, I really like your honesty and you are not afraid to speak about the problem directly even if someone might get upset about it. Thank you so much it made me realize that I need to simplify my "path" if you will and be consistent with it. I have do couple of styles of music, but only 1-2 which go well together really resonate with me and they feel like they are "my thing". Thank you
Simplicity is generally the best approach to most things.
@@mredrollo Yes, sometimes I am over complicate the process for no reason at all.
It may be likely that a person who doesn't seek audience building doesn't have goals, but if such a person has goals outside of building an audience, you'd never find out about it.
creatives with ADHD (like, all of them?), need to hear this. I think of myself as a genre hopping butterfly, crosspolenizing styles as long as my attention is interested in them, but in reality I'm more like a moth, constantly flapping around in the dark repeatedly banging my head against the light of my own expansive, but unfocussed creativity.
I think your opening line about taking the time to set up, but tripping over the light was a bit of an unintended metaphor.
No ones heard my music hardly and I'm happy as Larry. I hear a lot of producers and music creators on you tube say they 're not fulfilled because they struggle to finish songs and I think its because they aren't really writing songs - they're creating ideas by getting a groove or a beat going first and then after the initial creative spark they run out of ideas and end up throwing in some lyrics that just fit a melody but have no deep personal meaning. I've stopped writing songs now after many years at it as I've got too many. I've probably written 160 - 170 songs and out of that I'd say about 30 - 40 are really worth recording and producing. What I've learned is that If it's a good song it can hold its own with just one instrument like a piano/guitar and a voice and when you play it live if it's any good people in the audience will stop what they're doing and tune in. That's been enough for me so far. I'd rather reach ten real people in a pub or at an open mic then 10,000 virtual people on the internet.
You’re happy as Larry, but have also given up, which is a shame. You might surprise yourself if you produced those 30-40 songs 🤔
@@mredrollo Thanks man - believe it or not that's what I'm doing atm - learning some production skills, re-making tracks, so that I can do those songs - I'm enjoying it but it's a totally different world to just writing, all part of the journey though. Really like what you talk about on your channel- keep on making great content - I reckon it's helping a lot of people :)
Hello. I'm music producer from Ukraine and I'm start making some progres only in last couple years, but I'm almost 32 now 🥲 But now I'm think about my music not only just for something creative but like about product and learn how to prepare and sell it. But its still harder and harder.
I feel you on some points but I actually make music because I just love to make music. never once did it for fans or money or to be heard or recognized. music always has and always will be a release for me. I don't do it for you or anyone else that decides to listen. im grateful for the people that do of course. its a great feeling when someone appreciates your work but its silly to put everyone in this phantom box you speak of
Like I said, it’s a divisive discussion 🙂
Surely the 1st musicians that ever existed did it because they were trying to build their brand right? Lol
Most people are in love with being rich and famous, not music. No vision, no direction, just the hunger for recognition and nothing to say.
But theres nothing wrong with having a dream.
For most people,music should be done as stress relief and a hobby. If you are not a super talent then you have to be super original to get some kind of recognition. You have to be an alternative to the mainstream. It is still hard to get heard being original but it will help your mental state.
How come you don't make videos anymore?
Been busy 😉
People are too focused on the music bit! If you want real world success then the music is just the beginning.
Well, judging by the thumbnail, this info is something I've been knowing🤣😂 I'll still have a watch though lol
Creativity without system does not work. If you are highly creative, the essence of it needs a system.
Damnit Ed, why are you always right about this? Thank you for your messages of hope!
Sorry! 😅
I didnt watch the video, but let me encourage starting musicians:
One of my songs blew up in the first year bringing me 2 million streams and 5k $
I did 0 effort to promote it (cuz i didnt quite knew how).
Believe in yourself.
You should watch the video
Man, I paint, write and make music almost all of my life and I'm 56 now. And I do it for myself, and I'm very happy this way. You know, I had a teacher when I was sixteen who told me I should quit painting because I didn't have enough ambition and discipline hahaha. Well, from all those disciplined , who worked so hard, (so not like me I only do it when I enjoy it) how many are still creating stuff now.... you think? Because if fame ore recognition is your drive and it dousn't work out, what's gonna be your drive then? You have your opinion but I don't agree. There are artist who died unknown and became known later, there are others who where known while alive and who are forgotten. In the end it will all be forgotten. For me the importance of my creativity can't be judged by others, it's a personal religious act. If others enjoy it that's fine with me, if not so what? For me art is all freedom, I'm simply a playing child. I had a million jobs, and they gave me kinds of inspiration I wouldn't have being only occupied with music. Why should I feel important? The purest art is made by children and if their mom or friend like it that's enough for them, and they forget it and go on with life..... I stay fresh, don't want to suffer while playing... the feeling of having no fixed goal is the endless source of energy for me🌼 and you can't know If my music will be heard man!..........👓There's no formula for the success so many people are desperately looking for,.... but you can try to sell it here and hope it works for you, get more views, feel right,...etc....EGO STUFF... why the hell should someone care about my creations? If somebody does, fantastic! If not,.... well the most joyful and important part is already gone... CREATING !
Nailed it! I couldn't have written it better and it's exactly how I feel about the subject.
I had that reconnection moment with myself after feeling like "gosh, I really suck at this, nobody cares," but that's on me. If not even the music artist themselves listen to their own music, why should THEY expect others to listen to their tracks?
And ultimately, not only did I discover how my tastes changed since last listening to every last track I had on the channel, but I discovered that I'm not particularly bad, but what's keeping me from making "enjoyable" music than just "decent" is mostly the lack of impact.
That is the step I will need to address in my own music, and simple marketing, even if just sharing with some people you know or on a discord server.
Ultimately, when reconnecting with my music, I also discovered why most people will probably never listen to it: it's rhythm game music. Very hard to market music that has borderline no real genre, is inspired by asian rhythm/music games that never get played on the radio. Not only do most tracks sound different, you need to give them your uninterrupted time to just relax, enjoy, and probably get hyped if it's a hyper-fast song. The most likely place you'll manage to get that combination of circumstances is when they're playing YOUR track that's been selected to debut in a rhythm game.
The people who know will know how to get featured and leave the outsiders in the dust. In the end, if I don't really get much because of my incompetence, I can be happy I just sat down and did something instead of making excuses. I noticed this is what's holding back most people who want to make music. "Oh, you gotta know music theory," "You need this sick DAW and buy all this equipment, and" shut up for a minute...
And create with what you have.
GLTA
Thanks for sharing mate!
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, totally agree with you! Cheers.
The problem isn't you or your music, its the fact that it would take me many lifetimes to listen to the first thirty seconds of everything ever recorded up to now. The odds of me listening to and liking your work are far greater than me winning the lottery.
Thank you for truth. YOU ALSO MOTIVATED the real muse in the real musician to push further and to check your goals.
This was just what I needed to hear right now…
So glad to hear it ❤️
The biggest lesson you might learn is who you’re tagging as influences/sounds like content on a UA-cam or SoundCloud upload. Can you even list one? You should have sharpened your sound to where you can list a good handful of other artists in a fairly tight genre. Fit instance it’s probably not a good idea to put Brian Eno and Rick James on that list. You’ll just confuse people. If you can’t choose a genre from the drop down list, then you truly are the arts for arts sake person he’s talking about
"I make music for me." That's something I don't hear via producer Twitter. Plenty of "beat makers" making beats and hustling "this sample pack is available beatstars...."
However, there was something I thought about the other day: "The art is the process, not the product." I even tweeted about it during a conversation, having pondered it for months.
Good to see you back in my subs notifications!
It took me about an hour to find your channel! I realised I wasn't subscribed and I searched through 1000+ videos on my watch later list and looked for you on my other UA-cam channel I was thinking I need to find this calming dude who looks like a yog and teaches music productiom and finally I found you... Anyways man why did you stop making videos?
Yogi*
Just been focusing on music full time. UA-cam can definitely wait! Have a few goals I want to kick, I’ve kicked a couple already but still more on that list.
Disagreed, mate. I see your point, but if your music does not sounds good when it's made for the sake of making good art, you're probably not making that much of effort to sound good to you. Maybe you care more about the others opinion than yours. Of course you can learn with others, have references, inspirations... but come on, "this intro is sick, but I'll cut it off because people now have ADD".
Holll up a minute.. All this, I need to get recognized, I need people to listen to my music, I need, I need.. Mr.edrollo, I make music purely for therapy, and I am not ashamed to admit it. Music is something totally different from all these different perspectives. Ok you can push me into that last category then, if that makes you feel any more right about your take on music. For me it's actually been lifesaving. Yeah, It's that important to me. I also do it to learn. I don't only hone my skills with different instruments, but also streaming, pc's, camera gear, light. Recognition would only be a particle of what making music is for me. I can still make a brand either way.
All the best mate ❤️
Very well said cheers man ! The 5 Ws are always a good key to understanding and developing any artistic projects I guess :)
Oh, which ones did I leave out?
I'm not attached to recognition.
I see a lot of what you're saying and it has merit but it all hinges on that attachment.
I don't find that to be a good motive for making music and I'm someone who really, really struggles with making music.
I can't afford to have that extra burden if neediness.
That said, I also have an innate ability to do stuff that just works and I know a lot of people don't have that.
And I do accept there are parallel markets for covers and pop and dross on the one hand and those few listeners looking for heartfelt expression on the other.
I am, very late in life, finding ways to balance those things but recognition is only a necessary evil. It will never be a goal for me, just part of the process. I don't need to feel special, I just need to do what I was put here to do.
If my accountant needs to feel special, I'll find another accountant.
If I was 40 years younger this great advice would be invaluable, but after spending a lifetime involved with music, I conclude that the main factor to attract people (in big quantity), to listen too and recognise your music, is based on how you look.
The music you make becomes secondary to the image you portray, people will take notice if you look like someone they can relate to, or you look like you are serious about your music. Being a 60 year old, natural, normal, family man, that makes electronic music, doesnt offer anyone a visual element unless you're already a big name, from a time when the music business was in fact a business and not created by millions of home studio musicians, UA-cam and social media influencers.
Great video, hit up a lot of truths.
Thanks so much.
In Creating Art for yourself the idea is if you have good taste and make music you yourself like - then automatically some others will also like it. Maybe a few, maybe a million - but some people will.
IMO the real issue is many musicians dont have good taste and sometimes think their bad music is good.
Lets face it - if its good - you could play it on a street corner and people would want to hear more or maybe buy it. - Or put it on youtube and the same thing. If its good - even if only 2 or 3 or 5 people hear it at first - it will spread. If it aint spreading - write something else - and be sure you like it - Cuz why would you expect others to like it if you dont?
Or I could be totally wrong. Im still trying too.
Yeah, that's true. It is so much work, too much for just having fun for yourself. If It was like that, I would be fine playing guitar one or two hours every two or three weeks. I get a little jealous about EDM producers, when the first sketch of their ideas ends up with a full production, and I need a full day only for programming the drums. I make a sketch of my song and then a demo, then a preproduction and finally THE production itself and I am still not happy with it when it ends up sounding like any random artist xyz. But since I am developing a specific style for me that gives me a frame and guidance (even when the process is not finished), it takes away a lot of brainwork and doubts. This and my progress in mixing gave me the amount of energy that I need to carry on with it. Now I am over 50 so I do not expect to get famous anymore, but beeing recognized still is my goal. Hope that my mixing skills reach the needed quality level when I am ok with what I found as "my" style of music.
It’s not about getting famous at all. Just having your music appreciated by someone else. Keep going mate.
I know, I totally understand this fact, hopefully someone will hear my catalogue after I die.
Life changing. Thank you!
In the age of high quality productions due to the amazing tech we have, we forget that music is not only about the perfect sound. Music has to tell a story, it should have a message that resonate with people. In this age it's very difficult, because you are no longer free to express yourself and most people are way too afraid to do so. As a result, you can hear all the shallow, try-hard, high quality productions that are, at best, a one-time-listen. Also, I think most people do not see the hard work successful musicians put it. We need success and fame! When do we need it? Now! Copy-paste, rinse repeat, because many seem to believe if someone made it, copying that someone a million times will produce a million successful "artists"... Nope.
There's something important missing: a message. Metallica is a good example. I saw a documentary recently about them and how they produced one of their recent albums. They were saying that back in the days each of the band members were basically responsible for their own area. E.g. the singer wrote the lyrics and was doing the singing. The documentary showed that with their recent album they sat together as a "team" to **figure out** the lyrics. As a result, they put together words and phrases and they themselves were then trying to figure out what the hell was the meaning of it, what was the "message" of the "thing" because, well, there wasn't any. And this is something you can feel as a listener. That's exactly why I, for example, cannot listen to their new work, even though I know they are all excellent musicians.
Stop copying others and watching videos like "how to sound like ". Start making music just for fun, try to find yourself, your sound and the message you want to convey. Shift focus from excellent production quality to excellent music. The rest will come **in time**.
Part 1: Hello mredrollo! I'm a year late to add my two cents to this video. But.. better late than never.. So, I read through all 317 comments and listened to the video 4 times. Your message is reaching musicians from all over the spectrum, so there are many different entry points concerning how musicians will wrap their heads around this subject philosophically. First off I want to say that I agree with you as it pertains to the general statement you seem to be making with this video. Basically, if a musician knows what kind of music they're making, how they're going to make it and why they're making it, then they have a direction. A direction is paramount because, as you said, without it, a musician is not going to be productive and will likely make less music with less quality for probably less time as well.. The person will probably fall well short of reaching their full potential musically in this scenario… And that person may just walk away from music for months or years at a time… maybe forever.. "giving up" on music all together. Many have done this, and many will continue to do it. For some, it's part of their journey, to get involved with music deeply, not have a vision for what, how and why their doing it, and just "fall off".. Some will be bitter and blame the "system".. Some will accept that maybe they just weren't cut out for it.. For some, the timing was never right because of something called "real life" … So, as I said, I agree with the main message of your video. Here's the beginning of my two cents. Because all musicians are evolving, and all are in process, and some are a lot more immature as people and musicians compared to others, that there will be musicians, who may try to incorporate the "What", "How" and "Why" construct that you've specified in your video, who will never be able to answer those three basic questions. A musical "identity crisis" so to speak. Because not all musicians, or people, are created "equal". As at least one other commentor stated, some people, are not musicians, but they love music on a level that they desperately want to be musicians. So, with the tools that we have nowadays, they jump out there and want to claim to their friends and family that they are a musician or a producer or whatever. And.. inevitably they run into issues and they may second guess what they are doing and eventually "bow out". Now, if you're reading this and you think that I may be talking about you, there's no reason to be concerned. Over time, with self-reflection and basic trial and error, the answer will be clear as to what you should do in time. Sometimes it might be the right choice, even if a person is a highly skilled and talented musician, to walk away from music for a time.. Or maybe forever as well. There's no written rule or agreed upon paradigm that says that just because someone is wired up with the right genes to be the next musical genius, that the person "should" go forward pursuing music at all costs. Sometimes there are costs that can't be paid in this life. Life is unjust at its core. Imagine how many beautiful, talented, amazing people's lives were cut short because of a whole host of circumstances that were beyond their control. And you and I are no better than them..
Totally agree, but there are a few points missing, like how to build a story.
I don't write for other people of for money, just for the pure joy of creating music. You waste your time trying to please people. Don't want or need recognition.