Custom Horizontal Milling Machine Arbor Build
Вставка
- Опубліковано 17 жов 2024
- Building a custom sized horizontal milling machine arbor to hold some very old 1-1/16" ID Bevel Gear Involute Gear Cutters. I could not find an off the shelf arbor in that size so I decided to build one using a 50-Taper end mill holder and turning the arbor out of a piece of steel.
Support VintageMachinery.org on Patreon:
/ vintagemachinery
Make a one time donation to VintageMachinery via PayPal:
www.paypal.me/...
Please Visit: www.vintagemach...
Sponsored by:
American Rotary Phase Converters
www.americanro...
Use checkout code "Vintage10" for a 10% discount on all AD, ADX and AI converters!
Hi Keith. Another Keith here, Keith Callcut in the U.K. Great project. Your video's are always handy with lots of interest.
What a super treat. I just plopped down in front of the computer with a fresh cup of coffee. Glancing at UA-cam - bang - a new Vintage Machinery video. This is a great way to start the morning. Thanks for a great video.
Hey Keith, greetings from the Metric Lands, 1" 1/16 equals 27mm, which is an standard size milling arbor over here.
With this planer restoration I think Keith dose not read any of this comments as the metric measurements has been mentioned several times before an some one commented that the US signed the metric system back in the late 1880
Moron rucker strikes again. Easy to id size he completely fails.
Roughly equals. It is actually 0.00049 larger. Not that it matters, but it does.
Which came first - the 1-1/16" arbor, or the the 27mm arbor? Keith mentioned those cutters were American made and has seen other American vintage equipment that used that size.
Many imported german qualty tools , evern back then
Being exposed to metric in 1880 makes sense to me .
Then Americans would copy them
Thus the odd sizes
Not an expert
Just wondering about it
Glad to see someone else that is not afraid to use the half nut to cut a thread and not reverse the spindle every pass. Good job 👍
Just a small FYI Jeff. I have collected equipment made by Clough-Brengle (no relation), and have known some Houghs. The pronunciation is "Cluff", as in "enough". Was corrected on that a number of years ago. Great video once again! Have had to make new arbors/mandrels for my Kempsmith #1 plain miller in the past. Since the machine is 1918 vintage, had to make them with a #10 Brown and Sharpe taper. Really enjoyed the project. Luckily, Kempsmith is still in business making paper card processing equipment, and they were kind enough to send me copies of the original prints to fabricate the the common sizes/diameters of arbors.
Clough can be found in some place names in the North of England, particularly in Yorkshire; there is a Dryclough Junction on the railway for example. I don’t know the origin of it.
Great video. You've taken a problem, defined it, mapped out a simple solution and executed. Now it all makes sense to me.
Good show Keith.
Fascinating to watch you and Abomb set the chuck up to dial the run out out! Adam is fast and intuitive, and you are fast and methodical! A great teaching moment!
Think he means aboom.?
Keith, my Grandfather was a "Toolmaker" by trade. He taught me the importance of "If you haven't got one, see if you can make one!". Thank you for your videos. I found the "Babbitt Bearing" one of particular interest!
thank you Keith from here in the UK always enjoy watching your work
Really enjoyed watching you zero out the 4 jaw chuck. Always educational.
I wish I new half of what he has forgotten. Great video.
Love this channel. I'm guessing you found out your key was too long. I have a hi-def screen and noticed a gap between the spacer and the blade. But hey, d everything was correct. I make more mistakes then you do so I'm the champion! Thanks again!
I think I would have machined the arbor shaft end to fit into the 50 Taper... then mount the raw shaft into the 50 T... then mount the 50T into the lathe and finish the outside dimensions of the shaft while its running in the 50T... provided you had a 50 taper snout mount for the lathe (probably not).
Ive had to make small holders for gear cutters and end mills before... and one thing that ruins cutters is runout in the holders... so tolerance build up is a problem when making these things...
Nice work Keith - it very interesting to still be using such old tooling.
It is not easy to convey to someone who doesn't know much about machining just how cool it is that you can actually make your own tooling.
It never really occurred to me until I got one of those cheap Chinesium Mini Lathes, watched UA-cams until I fell asleep with my computer on my lap every night trying to learn how to use it without hurting myself and then after months of messing with it, actually making a small arbor that I discovered just how awesome that feeling was. I have you and many other UA-cam creators to thank for that.
Great simple straight forward project, an absolute delight to watch. I cab hardly wait for the bevel gear sequel. Maybe Keith will give a rundown of what is different about the bevel gear cutter.
Tools making tools as long as you got the know how its all good and Keith has all the know how and the tools thanks for sharing!! 😊👍
My last lathework was ......making a handle for a garden rake from wooden bar ! turned a taper on one end to fit the rake head!
THANK YOU...for sharing. Watched and very much enjoyed. Nicely done.
Just got in a bunch of horizontal cutters & some do have oddball mount diameters. Perfect timing!
Thanks for showing good solutions in a simple way.
Good job Kieth.......looking forward to the bevel gear work!!
Thanks for sharing this video. Good work.
I once took a tour of a factory that just made hobs for cutting gear teeth. It's amazing how important cutting gear teeth and making gears is in our everyday lives. Very cool video, Keith.
I have run into that problem with some of the older involute cutters I have.. I used a large endmill holder with 40 taper for my K&T 2hl universal to hold a shop made arbor for the odd sized cutters as I recall... Overcoming snags is part of the challenge.. Cheers; Mike in Louisiana
Just the project i needed to see. I have the same problem with some gear cutters. Great video. Thanks for sharing with us.
Good project arbor learnt a lot sir 💯👍🏻🇬🇧
Thanks for making these informative videos. I am a beginner and these are very helpful.
Best regards
Frank
Improper or "weird tooling" is the bane of machinists the world over.......... Good thing is because you ARE a machinist you can in most cases make what you need. Was wondering if you would provide a weldon flat for that set screw. Good insurance. Hey I remember that mill vice from a weekend workshop (Adam Booth was there too) I helped you with a few years back on some sort of wood saw if I remember correctly. Setting that mill up sure brings back memories from when I worked for the Boeing Co. in Macon Ga. many years ago. Ran the old Cincinatti machines. Good job on the arbor.
Good solution and well made. I'm not a machinist (I'm a wood butcher) so please feel free to ignore this idea but would another solution be to make a 3/4" shaft and a set of bushings for that then for each odd ball cutter size all you'd need to make is a special bushing with a shoulder? I don't know, maybe 3/4" doesn't give you enough for a key in the special bushing.
Hi Keith. The cutter manufacturer's name is probably pronounced "Cluff". A English name going waaaay back, but still common over here in UK.
I thought this too. Possibly an immigrant from Liverpool or the North of England where the Clough name was relatively prevalentm
I figure when James(Clough42) watches this, he may figure out he’s got some family back east. BTW, James does pronounce his last name “clow”.
Yep!!!! I learned this spelling from my UK coworkers when I went there for work. "Clow" is the Americanized way to say it and certain families have just come to deal with and accept. Others still pronounce it properly. The best is the trifecta of complicated "English" pronunciation......Clough, Slough, Plough, Through..... LOL
It was great to see the stock being centred on the 4 jaw chuck. Also excellent to see the part getting centred on the mill with the DRO. AND great to hear your thought process around increasing the speed of the lathe feed to get rid of the birds nest. (Not that I have a lathe or a milling machine and will not likely put this knowledge into practice.)
I've been watching and following all of the projects for a long time and I love how much I'm still learning.
You are one smart cookie.......love your videos.
Now, I would have made a one inch adapter. One inch long with a 1 and a 16th shoulder on one side and the key cut in the bore. I would have had to make a custom key that was the width of the 1 inch arbor on one side and the key to match the cutter on the other. It might have been as simple as 1/8x5/32. Your way works and gets the job done. Mine takes less room in the tool chest.
I have a workshop in the UK and milling arbors of 1.062in or sometimes marked 27mm are quite common in older machinery from the 1960's.
What mill have you ? I wonder what size mine is ;) - at least I can now remember the model - G. Dufour 61!
very good video..thanks for your time
Nicely executed and an enjoyable video.
Shafting and bearings are the same way, using many 1/16 sizes and the OD sizes of bearings change when the ID changes from 1-7/16" to 1-1/2" or 1-15/16" to 2".
Would like to see you setup a indicator on the shaft and more importantly the cutter to verify runout. Thanks for the video
That is getting it done!
Might be as Brian said below or simply a bevel cutter might be for a machine that takes only that size to keep the correct ones on that machine.
This reminded me of a Science Fiction short story that I read in the 1950's. "Tools Of The Trade", by Raymond F. Jones. (Information from "Chronicles" science fiction and fantasy community)
The story's main character ran a repair depot for spaceships in the neighborhood of earth. He was trying to expand into repairing those of the more-advanced alien species who visited earth. The problem - and maybe the title - was "the tools to make the tools". He finally gets the tech he needs by mind-scanning a visiting alien diplomat, who also turns out to be the inventor of the required technology. His success lets earth get "promoted" to a more senior membership in the alliance, or federation or whatever.
You need to have the tools to make the tools to make the tools to make the part to repair the machine.
I think the '50s was the golden age of sci-fi, many stories like the one you outlined ! I loved those asa kid!
I took metal shop in high school because of that very thought. I had lots of stuff on the farm from my Great GrandFather.. I needed to to learn how to make tooling to make tools to repair the equipment.. Grandfather and Great grandfather were both millwrights and made a lot of their own equipment.
I was told as a teenager 50 years ago plus... that inch and ounce are both from Latin the original word meant "a 16th of" .. the old english mearsure of a foot was slight longer the todays foot about 13 inches in todays standard measurements.. if done in 1/16ths... 1 1/16" would be a old inch..
Thats an interesting piece of History.
@jacktheripped Sorry to puncture your theory, but in the 1950's Japan was desperately trying to recover from WWII. They had been occupied by Allied troops until 1952. The products manufactured there were almost universally deemed cheap junk. It would be almost a decade after this story appeared that Made in Japan began to mean precision optical gear and transistor electronics. It wasn't so much that they didn't know how, but their industrial base had pretty much been destroyed and the country bankrupted. This story predated the resurgence of Japan.
That's a thumbs upper.
Outstanding video, really enjoyed it. Thanks
Hello from Meriden, CT. MY wife and I have been watching all your vids for quite a while now and enjoy them very much. Nice to see a tool from my hometown but that must be very old as I'm 63 and never heard of the company. Just to let you know the name of the town is pronounced like mare-a-din. Seems like everyone down south says it like you did. Keep up the good work looking forward to seeing your planer cutting metal.
Alan Zelanski: I was going to correct Keth too but, you already did. Yes your right about Mer-a-din. I'm from Cheshire and they mis pronounce it as Ches- shirer not Cheshire, the cat.
There were many great tooling companies in this state at one time. I'm from Bridgeport and saw way companies leave since the early 60s. It's to bad! We need to get back into making things beside poverty.
Alan, I was born and raised in Hamden , We moved to GA in 1972 but we were close neighbors I believe.
@@monadking2761 without poverty there would be no demoncrats! It's as simple as that!
Awesome This was a pleasure to watch. A true craftsman.
Nice work!
Hi Keith,
As always an entertaining and informative video.
Take care
Paul,,
Why the oddball sizing? Well, Meriden Connecticut is north of New Haven, northeast of Bridgeport, south of Hartford and Springfield Mass. In the 1800s and 1900s, intellectual property theft was common so the machine tooling companies then as now used 'oddball sizing' so you could not use a competitors accessories on their product line. I'm still surprised at how deep an impact this little state had on industry and the nation. You can pretty much drive by the sites where those tooling giants were located in the span of about 3 hours.
That makes sense.
Thanks for sharing!
The shafting being common in 1/16 under sizes, from what I was told that an old manufacturer from Santa Rosa claims, was that the steel was being shipped from east coast to the west coast the long way around and would arrive very rusty from the salty sea air. Once ashore it would continue to deteriorate. The shaft would have to be turned down to clean metal before it could be used, 1/16” was adequate for clean up. Not sure if this is an old toolmakers tale or not but I suppose you would still see the common sizes of quarters near where the steel was produced? (iron belt?)
I wonder if they did odd sizes to force best accuracy. Im thinking well its supposed to be an inch then it was open to interpretation just below line or above or right on . The 1/16 line was smaller and would at least increase accuracy to some degree. And for us that have ocd would thrive to hit dead on . Just a thought.
Thanks Keith, I'll be making one similar to that in the future. I have a 30 taper I need an 1-1/4 arbor for. I have a piece of 4140 for making the arbor.
Nice job,,, l have a Sheldon horizontal mill with 1 inch arbor and found a ton of 11/4 cutters was wondering if I should make spacer bushings are a arbor, it also has end mill holder but only 1/2 inch end mill size,, already turned down spacer stock with 1 inch id and 11)4 od ready to part off for each cutters width,,, am I doing a bad thing?
Great solution.
Would it also have worked to create a bushing for the gear to adapt it to the 1-inch arbor? Maybe by pressing a solid plug into the existing hole then boring out a 1-inch hole and cutting a keyway?
It would be too thin, with a wall thickness of only 30 thou. If you could cut a keyway in it without it tearing up, you’d end up with a split bush that would fall out. I think he chose the better option.
@@srp01983 ah that makes sense. thanks for the explanation
@@Sharklops A bush was my option too. Yes, it'd be a split bush and too big so it was sprung into the cutter.
@Truthisstrangerthan Fiction No - the same bush would do for them all.
Just shim the ID onto the 1" shaft with a piece of 1/32" shim stock that is short enough to allow the key and is as wide at most 1/32" plus the cutter's width at the arbor.
I can't understand why you would spend hours fabricating a "special-use" arbor for this job when the next job may be quite further out or in. Your choice of centerline seems arbitrary and inefficient for using your complete set of cutters, so why not just go with the 1" arbor and the 1/32" shim?
Really inspiring little project. I've gotten so many good ideas from your channel over the years, super grateful!
Cool looking chip at 24:27
A true craftsman makes his own tools. Good job!!!!!
If only Keith had a tub of Evapo-rust, that small channel lock on the bench at 30:00 looks like it might benefit from a bath in it. :-)
"That's exactly what We do here." love that line.
Thanks Keith, interesting Content as only you can do thanks again.
Very cool! I can't wait to see how you cut bevel gears!!
Wow! One of THE best video's. Thanks to Keith Rucker for sharing his genius to us. May Jesus bless him always.
Hi Keith. What about just making an “adapter” with a bit of sheet metal 1/16” thick, whose width is the thickness of the involute cutter, and whose length is the circumference of the I.D. of the cutter, sans the key way; it’ll probably need a bit of filing of the ends to get it to just the right length, and to remove any burrs. Then, just slip it in the involute cutter, and slide the whole shootin-match on the 1” arbor - ta-daa!
William Squires well actually it would need metal one thirty second of an inch thick not a sixteenth and it would have to be exactly 0.03125" to get the cutter to run concentrically with the arbor otherwise the produced gear will be out of tolerance and undersized due to run out. Run out is the enemy of precision
SAMRODIAN - Oh, yeah, it’d have to be half the difference. Good catch. 🙂
Thanks very apreciated
Another lathe job that begged to be turned between centers! Cheers!
Thanks for sharing
Thanks Keith. That’s the fastest I’ve ever seen you cut a thread. Have you been watching Adam?
Is that the effect of a rapid threading attachment ? Interesting how the cross-slide comes out at the end of the cut too despite the tool being clear in the precut groove - the sort of thing a bit of automation would do !
awesome... been needing to do this project myself soon..!
looking at the 1 1/16th rise there appears to still be a slight gap between the cutter and the spacer, I could be wrong, but if there is I would take a 16th x .25 out of the closest spacers inner bore or just enough to have it snug . marking it as the closest spacer to the 1 1/16th gear cutter... leaving it available for use for both bars.
Could it be that the involute is different and should not be used for any thing other than its intended use, and the odd size prevents people from wasting time machining a regular gear that will not mesh?
Enjoying watching your videos. I do wood working as hobby. Jerome Manhattan Kansas
Keith ingenuity & know-how is a necessity in a successful reductive shaping process whether metal or wood. Thread cutting never bores me. I'm buying a mini lathe and hope to become skilled in this process as I have a need for specific length stainless metric screws to restore a 1960 MG convertible.
I must tell you, nothing metric in a MG; but everything seems to have a very loose fit. I had a MGB-GT until I got tired of screwing, and bought something German.
Did you ever consider welding up the holes then reboring the cutters instead?
I'm thinking perhaps stamping the size of cutter on the shaft base for quick the reference to radius of the cutter?
Hmmm- I visualized turning a bushing to fit inside the cutter and milling the slot to fit the key- then making a short key 1/32 taller - now you have a little kit for your 1- 1/16 cutters that you can use with your 1" arbor and have the full range of adjustment.
I was wondering what his thought process was in making a whole new shaft, as opposed to a top hat sleeve for the cutter?
@@littleworkshopofhorrors2395 Monetized by content and views- that does not work well with quick and simple solutions.
@@oldschool1993 do i detect a little cynicism? 😉
@@oldschool1993
Yup!! :-D
@@littleworkshopofhorrors2395 Naaah- not cynicism, just realism. This is an industry, and successful creators earn good money from You Tube and also from their Patreon supporters. In exchange for that income they must continue to create interesting videos. The advertisers who pay You Tube for space also demand videos of interest and a reasonable length necessary to capture the audience attention.
Great videos. I'm curious, every lathe pretty much every lathe I have ever seen has a recirculating emulsified oil / water coolant on the cutter /drill bits etc. You don't use is this normal or do you only use for special jobs .
From Sheffield UK.
You need to turn the cutter around to be cutting away from the dividing head instead of into it. The reason is by cutting away it is pushing away. The way you have it set up, the cutter will be trying to lift the gear blank up. It you don't believe me try it, you will find out the hard way like it did.
12:30 dealing with run out on the 4-jaw - so the obvious time to ask the obvious question....
.....Why not mount it between centres ?
nice video...discussion/build
Nice. Was there any reason you didn't turn that between centers instead of using the 4 jaw?
Yes, he's an amateur ;) All things considered, it would be the proper way to do it.
I've rarely turned between centres and I suspect to many it's more of a last resort option when in reality, it ought to be a first resort (after facing and centre-drilling both ends). Watching this, I even thought about having one lathe with 3-jaw just for facing and centre drilling then a 'nice' lathe for the nice work. Having considered the old catch plate and carrier - don't you think it's a bit odd that you don't see a driving hole either half an inch or an inch offset from the centre hole so that the whole length of the work can be turned !
Awesome!
Maybe shrink fit the holder? Make them with a thousandth interference fit. put the arbor in the freezer and the holder in the oven at 375 and push them together. Only thing is you play hell getting them apart if you need to,
Nothing at all wrong with the way you did it but even with the vibration from gear cutting the force fit would not even need set screws (Although I'd us then anyway) Just an idea.
maybe next time ')
Though I'm not a machinist, I have made my own tools already.
Hiya Keith
Super vídeo gracias, saludos desde Colombia
Good job! That is the stuff I like to see. Don't have it? Make it! 👍👏🇺🇸
Nice!!
Super mach weiter so!!👍👍👍
Hi Keith, any update of the motor mounting after part 2? Like to see the end mounting and working of your bandsaw.
Steve from Singapore.
They were probably finishing shafts to sixteenth sizes because they were machining them from eighth and quarter inch increment stock.
Out of curiosity, since tooling needs to be more accurately made than the parts run on it, and gearing is more accurate than most matching other than bearing fits, why didn’t you run the job between dead centers? I.e., in a 3 jaw chuck face off and center punch one end, flip and repeat. Chuck up a center and machine the center concentric to the centerline. Dead center in tailstock and everything cut will be dead on, repeatable after flipping end to end.
(in squeeky boys voice) THANK YOU MR RUCKER!!!
Excellence!!!
Hi Keith, how you make sure when to stop on the end on each run of threading, is there a mechanism on the lathe you can set to stop on time?
What timing! I need an arbor for my Atlas MF mill so I can cut some gears with cutters that have a 22MM center hole. I was planning to make my own arbor because finding a 22MM arbor would be impossible but I wasn't looking forward to cutting the MT2 taper to fit the mill's spindle. Now I'm thinking I can get a MT2 cutter holder for Weldon shank endmills and copy your design. Thank you!
You can also get morse taper blank arbors from some tooling suppliers. They are supplied with a large 'boss' on the end that is not hardened (I think the tapered bit will be hard, but I'm uncertain) so you can turn it down to fit other stuff. You could get one of those and machine the boss to a press fit on a hole in the end of your arbor shaft. Ideally leave a flange so you can cut slots to fit the arbor driver on your mill, that way you don't have to tighten the living daylights out of the drawbar (on my Atlas it can be painfully difficult to remove things from the spindle if you tighten the drawbar too much, and I'm always scared of brinelling the rear bearings in the process of bumping an arbor out).
@@nerd1000ify I considered going the blank arbor route but then I found an MT2 end mill holder for 3/4" shank end mills for $24. Using that holder will allow me to make arbors with a 3/4 end for the holder with the remainder being whatever diameter I need for any given milling cutter. I have some cutters that are 22mm, 1" and 1 1/8" so I can turn up arbors of those diameters with 3/4 ends and a flat for a set screw, cut keyways in them and I'm good to go with the 3/4 end mill holder.
Would it be a good idea to stamp the nut end faced surface with 1"1/16 to indicate the size here.
I tuned in late on this one; why did you just drill it out from 1/16th to 1/8? Which you have already? TM in a state of confusion.
;
Do you etch in any kind of information on the tool so 20 years from now you will know what it is for?
In profile, how is the cutter shape different?