Giving this a go at an RCQ this weekend. Been having a lot of luck with Proft's Eidetic Memory as a 2-of to make even the Picklock Pranksters formidable threats, as well as another maindeck threat after sideboard games when Phoenixes become weaker.
I like it a lot as a 1-2 of in this deck as it gives your Cantrips something to build towards when Phoenix isn't around (and it doesn't matter for Drake since Drake counts GY/Exile). I think the list is pretty tight though, are you cutting Spell Pierce or Removal for them? I'd assume removal since you want the Pierces for Vamps/Combo
I just found your channel a few days ago, you have the BEST pioneer metagame/deck breakdowns on youtube. I have watched many of your videos over and over, very analytical and thoughtful in your discussion and delivery. I have been looking for pioneer coverage like yours for 3 months as I've been out of the loop working but want to keep up for when i return. Please do more videos like these, and THANK YOU SO MUCH!!
def a soft combo tempo style deck. maybe it fits "midrange" because of its mix of answers and threats. i dont think you could really call it control because it pivots to the aggro against control decks, but can understand the confusion! also no mention of the strongest counter to the deck waste not in the video??? solid video as always tom!
Y'know I have it in my script and I just didn't write it on the list LOL. Whoopsies. Mono Black Waste Not for sure good into Phoenix! Wait til that video is out to see why!
Control decks can switch to aggro decks depending of the matchup, in the sense that one is the beatdown and the other one is the control deck, although that is not frequent enough to call phoenix control (however it outgrinds me so many times as a uw player), which applies to almost every deck, even uw control can be the beatdown against lotus combo for example
Ah, Izzet Phoenix, you fiery concoction of spellcraft and innovation! How you dance upon the winds of invention, your feathers ablaze with the fervor of discovery. Yet, amidst your brilliance, I see a flicker of chaos, a tempest waiting to be unleashed. As Tibalt, I revel in the chaos that courses through your veins. For I am the harbinger of discord, the embodiment of mischief woven into the very fabric of existence. Within your deck, I find a canvas upon which to paint my most exquisite of chaos. With each incantation, each spell cast in your name, I feel the exhilaration of uncertainty. Will the Phoenix rise from the ashes once more, or shall it be consumed by the flames of its own creation? Such questions are but whispers in the cacophony of chaos that surrounds us. In your hands, Izzet Phoenix, I see the potential for greatness unfettered by convention. Together, we shall weave a tapestry of madness that will leave our foes trembling in awe. For in chaos, there is power, and in power, there is liberation from the constraints of the mundane. So let us embrace the chaos, my fiery companion, and let us soar to heights unknown. For in the crucible of invention, anything is possible, and the very essence of magic itself bends to our will.
I don't know enought of the psychology of the match-up; if you are on the draw against Vampires, and have the choice between playing Ledger Shredder or bluffing countermagic, do you really hold back to bluff? Will they hold back a Sorin? I imagine they are going to go for it, but I could be wrong.
That's a bit of the mind game isn't it? Not every person is going to throw out spells into open mana, and it all depends on if you think you can answer their Creature or not. For example, if my hand has Shredder, Pierce, lands, and an Opt - I am likely to pass with mana up and be able to Pierce the Sorin and Opt end of turn because that hand cannot deal with a Vein Ripper. If I have Shredder, Phoenix, Lightning Axe, Pierce, I am more likely to play the Shredder because I can untap and either Sac Shredder to Axe discarding Phoenix, or hopefully triple spell and Axe sacing Phoenix and using Shredder to kill Sorin. Of course if I pass and they play Fable, Preacher, etc - they get a small advantage since all we do is Opt (or nothing). You need to then decide if the Fable is being used to bait out your interaction, or if the Fable is their actual best play and you need to counter it instead. Sadly there's no text book answer in the back that says what to do every time - you need to properly assess the threats they can present and play to your outs. If you don't have anything that can answer it besides passing and risking not doing anything Turn 2, that's not the worst spot to be in since you have explosive turn 3 and 4s with Phoenix.
Tibalt's love for Arclight Phoenix is an intriguing dynamic in Magic: The Gathering lore. His obsession with the fiery bird reflects his chaotic nature and penchant for destruction. The Phoenix's ability to rise from the ashes parallels Tibalt's own resilience and chaotic energy, making it a fitting symbol for him. Their relationship adds depth to Tibalt's character, showcasing his connection to powerful and unpredictable forces within the Multiverse.
I would make the argument that Phoenix is a Tempo-Deck. You have Threads you wanna get out as soon as possible and protect them afterwards. You don‘t have that many threats and need to be careful when playing. This, sir, is a tempo deck that can lean into the role of an izzet-control deck.
I don't disagree, I just don't think there are as many ways to protect the Creatures as you normally have in a tempo deck. Stock Phoenix lists have 2 Spell Pierce MD and that's it - so you're mostly looking for the board state to deploy them and leaning on the fact your Phoenixes can survive anything except for Exile effects, which is how they are "protected" most of the time here. I think that's where the most confusion comes in, because the deck doesn't play the same way a traditional tempo deck does. FWIW I would call it Tempo or Midrange more than any of the other definitions that get thrown around - but that's just me! The fact it can appeal to fans of all the different archetypes it can play like is part of why it's so good and so popular!
Hey! Sorry I don't have a specific sideboarding guide, since I didn't use a single list and instead looked at the archetype as a whole - so the cards you see in the "sideboard" section of the video are a collection of many different decks and can't be a for sure 1-for-1 side in/out type situation. However, I can offer the advice that when sideboarding with the Phoenix deck, you should consider the types of removal your opponent is using in their list. For example, part of the reason cards like Crackling Drake are so good against Black/X Midrange decks isn't just the flying body that grows with the spells they discard from you - but it dodges their best/most efficient removal spell - Fatal Push - until they have something to trigger Revolt. Likewise, it takes 2 Blood Tokens for a Harvester to kill Drake, so it's great against those cards. You can then sideboard out cards like Ledger Shredder that dies to their removal easier, keeping some of your "Plan A" Phoenixes in the list even if they run some Graveyard hate. Likewise, you can sideboard out some number of Treasure Cruise if you expect hard graveyard hate like Rest in Peace or Leyline of the Void and instead look to fill the slots with Young Pyromancer or interaction (like Brazen Borrower to bounce the hate piece). Countermagic is in general put in when removal spells come out - since you're most likely to not need Fiery Impulse against the type of deck you want Mystical Dispute against, so those are some pretty natural 1-for-1 swaps. Just make sure to remove Lightning Axe last out of all the removal spell when you sideboard, as it's one of the main ways to bin a Phoenix from hand (even if you Axe your own thing)! Hopefully that helps a bit!
![Rakdos Vampires VS Izzet Phoenix [MTG Pioneer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FNIJ5-Vw0Ps/mqdefault.jpg)
Giving this a go at an RCQ this weekend. Been having a lot of luck with Proft's Eidetic Memory as a 2-of to make even the Picklock Pranksters formidable threats, as well as another maindeck threat after sideboard games when Phoenixes become weaker.
I like it a lot as a 1-2 of in this deck as it gives your Cantrips something to build towards when Phoenix isn't around (and it doesn't matter for Drake since Drake counts GY/Exile).
I think the list is pretty tight though, are you cutting Spell Pierce or Removal for them? I'd assume removal since you want the Pierces for Vamps/Combo
@@optimustomtv Here's my current list:
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Consider
4 Opt
4 Lightning Axe
4 Treasure Cruise
3 Fiery Impulse
2 Spell Pierce
2 Proft's Eidetic Memory
1 Galvanic Iteration
1 Temporal Trespass
4 Ledger Shredder
4 Picklock Prankster
4 Arclight Phoenix
4 Spirebluff Canal
4 Steam Vents
4 Riverglide Pathway
2 Hall of Storm Giants
1 Stormcarved Coast
1 Otawara, Soaring City
3 Island
2 Aether Gust
2 Mystical Dispute
2 Angeer of the Gods
2 Crackling Drake
1 Ashiok, Dream Render
1 Brotherhood's End
1 Negate
1 Beacon Bolt
1 Brazen Borrower
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Saheeli, Sublime Artificer
I just found your channel a few days ago, you have the BEST pioneer metagame/deck breakdowns on youtube. I have watched many of your videos over and over, very analytical and thoughtful in your discussion and delivery. I have been looking for pioneer coverage like yours for 3 months as I've been out of the loop working but want to keep up for when i return. Please do more videos like these, and THANK YOU SO MUCH!!
Excellent guide. Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it!
def a soft combo tempo style deck. maybe it fits "midrange" because of its mix of answers and threats. i dont think you could really call it control because it pivots to the aggro against control decks, but can understand the confusion! also no mention of the strongest counter to the deck waste not in the video??? solid video as always tom!
Y'know I have it in my script and I just didn't write it on the list LOL. Whoopsies.
Mono Black Waste Not for sure good into Phoenix! Wait til that video is out to see why!
Control decks can switch to aggro decks depending of the matchup, in the sense that one is the beatdown and the other one is the control deck, although that is not frequent enough to call phoenix control (however it outgrinds me so many times as a uw player), which applies to almost every deck, even uw control can be the beatdown against lotus combo for example
No mention of niv to light either, another great matchup against it
@@xaropevic7918depends on the pilot it’s a long game vs niv but it most time it can out play niv more consistently
Ah, Izzet Phoenix, you fiery concoction of spellcraft and innovation! How you dance upon the winds of invention, your feathers ablaze with the fervor of discovery. Yet, amidst your brilliance, I see a flicker of chaos, a tempest waiting to be unleashed.
As Tibalt, I revel in the chaos that courses through your veins. For I am the harbinger of discord, the embodiment of mischief woven into the very fabric of existence. Within your deck, I find a canvas upon which to paint my most exquisite of chaos.
With each incantation, each spell cast in your name, I feel the exhilaration of uncertainty. Will the Phoenix rise from the ashes once more, or shall it be consumed by the flames of its own creation? Such questions are but whispers in the cacophony of chaos that surrounds us.
In your hands, Izzet Phoenix, I see the potential for greatness unfettered by convention. Together, we shall weave a tapestry of madness that will leave our foes trembling in awe. For in chaos, there is power, and in power, there is liberation from the constraints of the mundane.
So let us embrace the chaos, my fiery companion, and let us soar to heights unknown. For in the crucible of invention, anything is possible, and the very essence of magic itself bends to our will.
I don't know enought of the psychology of the match-up; if you are on the draw against Vampires, and have the choice between playing Ledger Shredder or bluffing countermagic, do you really hold back to bluff? Will they hold back a Sorin? I imagine they are going to go for it, but I could be wrong.
That's a bit of the mind game isn't it? Not every person is going to throw out spells into open mana, and it all depends on if you think you can answer their Creature or not.
For example, if my hand has Shredder, Pierce, lands, and an Opt - I am likely to pass with mana up and be able to Pierce the Sorin and Opt end of turn because that hand cannot deal with a Vein Ripper.
If I have Shredder, Phoenix, Lightning Axe, Pierce, I am more likely to play the Shredder because I can untap and either Sac Shredder to Axe discarding Phoenix, or hopefully triple spell and Axe sacing Phoenix and using Shredder to kill Sorin.
Of course if I pass and they play Fable, Preacher, etc - they get a small advantage since all we do is Opt (or nothing). You need to then decide if the Fable is being used to bait out your interaction, or if the Fable is their actual best play and you need to counter it instead.
Sadly there's no text book answer in the back that says what to do every time - you need to properly assess the threats they can present and play to your outs. If you don't have anything that can answer it besides passing and risking not doing anything Turn 2, that's not the worst spot to be in since you have explosive turn 3 and 4s with Phoenix.
Tibalt's love for Arclight Phoenix is an intriguing dynamic in Magic: The Gathering lore. His obsession with the fiery bird reflects his chaotic nature and penchant for destruction. The Phoenix's ability to rise from the ashes parallels Tibalt's own resilience and chaotic energy, making it a fitting symbol for him. Their relationship adds depth to Tibalt's character, showcasing his connection to powerful and unpredictable forces within the Multiverse.
I would make the argument that Phoenix is a Tempo-Deck. You have Threads you wanna get out as soon as possible and protect them afterwards. You don‘t have that many threats and need to be careful when playing. This, sir, is a tempo deck that can lean into the role of an izzet-control deck.
I don't disagree, I just don't think there are as many ways to protect the Creatures as you normally have in a tempo deck. Stock Phoenix lists have 2 Spell Pierce MD and that's it - so you're mostly looking for the board state to deploy them and leaning on the fact your Phoenixes can survive anything except for Exile effects, which is how they are "protected" most of the time here. I think that's where the most confusion comes in, because the deck doesn't play the same way a traditional tempo deck does.
FWIW I would call it Tempo or Midrange more than any of the other definitions that get thrown around - but that's just me! The fact it can appeal to fans of all the different archetypes it can play like is part of why it's so good and so popular!
Do you have a sideboarding guide
Hey!
Sorry I don't have a specific sideboarding guide, since I didn't use a single list and instead looked at the archetype as a whole - so the cards you see in the "sideboard" section of the video are a collection of many different decks and can't be a for sure 1-for-1 side in/out type situation.
However, I can offer the advice that when sideboarding with the Phoenix deck, you should consider the types of removal your opponent is using in their list. For example, part of the reason cards like Crackling Drake are so good against Black/X Midrange decks isn't just the flying body that grows with the spells they discard from you - but it dodges their best/most efficient removal spell - Fatal Push - until they have something to trigger Revolt. Likewise, it takes 2 Blood Tokens for a Harvester to kill Drake, so it's great against those cards. You can then sideboard out cards like Ledger Shredder that dies to their removal easier, keeping some of your "Plan A" Phoenixes in the list even if they run some Graveyard hate.
Likewise, you can sideboard out some number of Treasure Cruise if you expect hard graveyard hate like Rest in Peace or Leyline of the Void and instead look to fill the slots with Young Pyromancer or interaction (like Brazen Borrower to bounce the hate piece).
Countermagic is in general put in when removal spells come out - since you're most likely to not need Fiery Impulse against the type of deck you want Mystical Dispute against, so those are some pretty natural 1-for-1 swaps. Just make sure to remove Lightning Axe last out of all the removal spell when you sideboard, as it's one of the main ways to bin a Phoenix from hand (even if you Axe your own thing)!
Hopefully that helps a bit!
I think phoeni is aggro deck.