My man... As a Big Waterfowler for over 30yrs, I can honestly say great job on the video. Really well thought out... I've owned almost all of the top 3 Duck guns, Brownings, Binelli's, and Beretta's and shot basically everything else...I've also owned a few sets of Carlson's chokes.. However, you CANNOT judge these guns using aftermarket chokes, especially Binelli's and Beretta's...IMO the Crio-Choke System for Binelli's is second to none. Again, great job on the video but I feel all these Firearms need to be test fired using they're factory chokes as that's how they're designed. Cheers brother
It seems a little off to me that you are judging a shotgun with someone else's choke in it. Who is to say it's not the choke. I'd like to see this test all with factory chokes, then you are judging the manufacturer more fairly.
Agreed. I’ve tried a kicks highflier in my M2 and carlsons Cremator midrange in my affinity 3 and both patterned horribly! Screw in the factory modified chokes in both guns and they patterned excellent. I actually threw the cremator in the swamp mid hunt because I made the mistake of not patterning it before hand!
I appreciate this content, patterning is difficult to compare fairly and you have one of a precious few platforms where you can actually test it. I suspect the Beretta engineers have a portion of the customer base that are serious target shooters that actually pattern their guns and are held accountable about patterns more than most other manufacturers that have "good enough" patterns. If you make a video like this again I would love to see factory chokes, and other ammo run through these. I know how much work it is though I have done some rudimentary patterning myself and really appreciate additional information shared here.
Great videos! Really fun content. I would like to see a round two with a few tweaks to make it apples to apples, ie more scientific. Couple ideas to consider, you would want a much larger data set, at least 7+ shots per gun. Barrel length needs to be addressed. Greater attention to affixing and resetting the gun fixture and assuring starting position is the same on every shot. Laser for aiming should be used to standard aiming on target between all shots. I personally like that you standardized the choke across all platforms. Maybe add short discussion of pros and cons and address any risk that it could cause any of the platform to underperform. I would go as far as getting approval from each gun manufacturer's engineering team to use the choke in that gun and their input on expected performance.
Exactly! Use the factory choke in which the manufacturer did it's R&D with. I've owned the Browning. Berettas and Winchester . The Browning Invector is always wider and you have to choke down. I've spent hundreds on chokes and ammo to get the best patterns. It takes time and money and most of the time the factory chokes perform just as well as the magic chokes lol. Ammo choice is the key.
Yes! You seem to be saying "Buy a new shotgun and throw the factory choke away!" Well, lets see how the choke you actually bought works! I see the problem though.. my shotgun can shoot steel shot with the full choke.. and most just simply CAN'T DO IT. So lets see how they pattern lead because... pheasants.
As others have said. If you change out the shim you will move the position of the rear site, your eye, in relation to the bead. Therefore, you will now have a different aim point. Changing the cast shim will move it left and right. That will change your point of impact to match point of aim. Now, how does that Franchi you didn't even mention look?! You can send it to me if you don't want it, please. Listen to Jerry at 8:25 on your Mossberg 940 pro video. Hint: Tape a straw to the top of your receiver. Close your eyes and mount the shotgun. Open your eyes. If you are looking down the straw and see your front bead your good. If you are looking above the straw add drop. If you are looking below the straw reduce drop or add a pad to add height to your stock if you have to. If you are looking left of the straw add more cast off. If you are looking right of the straw reduce cast off, if you are right handed. If your length of pull is way off you may be outside the ability of your shims to adjust correctly. bonus point - Don't freeze your shotguns.
I really appreciate all of your reviews, they are fantastic, and the best on UA-cam IMO This one felt too unscientific. If you shoot the same gun 3 times at a fresh target, you will see significant variances, especially in the area of pattern gaps & white space. The statistical variance in pellet stacking within the shell, load in the shell, aim point, air patterns, all effect a single shot. You should have shot twice, maybe the times at the same target. Sure it makes the pellet counting a real problem (and masks the gaps), but a multi shot average is much more representative of what a gun is really doing on target and with the overall pattern. The A400 being an example, sure the first shot was a little off target due to the sled but all of the attributes of the pattern were far better the second time. Just to test the theory, grab any gun and shoot 4 separate patterns, same load, same choke, same distance, ... Then compare four, take the best and worst examples and compare them for us. I think it will show all of us when we go out and pattern our guns, shoot multiple patterns to ensure you get the consistent repeatable picture.
Frozen semi auto torture test. Stoeger and Benelli handles broke. I beat my M3500 to death and when I saw that failure I got a titanium charging handle. No issues so far. Gun just seems to work. I really want to try a Winchester SX4 Hybrid in grey. Keep it up Steve, love all the shottys!
Lucky for you, i’ve hunted with the stoeger for about 4 years and it was reliable for the first two years, after that it was clicking and stove piping like crazy, even after thorough cleaning
Nice Review! Use the factory choke in which the manufacturer did it's R&D with. I've owned the Browning. Berettas, Benelli, Winchester, Fabarm and Kolar . The Browning Invector is always wider and you have to choke down. I've spent hundreds on chokes and ammo to get the best patterns. It takes time and money and most of the time the factory chokes perform just as well as the magic chokes lol. Ammo choice is the key.
Bruh... You are more than a Ambassador for the Shotgun world, the way you present these arms and their performance is amazing, you are a true facilitator, I respect all the hard, this channel is our favourite 12 gauge channel in YT, thank you Bruh so much for these videos.
My franchi affinity 3.5 patterns better with factory than any other after market I’ve found out. Same with my sx4. I’ve noticed about the same pattern with a Carlson’s cremator choke modified with the sx4
Thanks for the additional reviews. Having done some testing on both my 12 and 20 ga Winchester SX4 I found almost dead even distribution of pellets in all 4 quadrants of the 30 inch circle. I did find flyers as well outside. I’ve also found that I have taken way more birds with a slightly tighter choke- example my 20 ga I typically do much better with a tighter choke. Even with steel, rather than use improved cylinder I seem to fare better with a modified. I just ordered a light mod and improved mod chokes to do some tested. Note: I shoot almost exclusively upland game so my point of aim is typically at the top of the head on the majority of birds.
I love your videos. This one was a lot of work and not much fun. I think what you're seeing is a true representation of "Shotgun patterns have randomness." "The patterns have holes in them... so I will pick the best" or "This time I have 18 pellets in the duck"... when it comes to practical ducks... you don't get do-overs duck hunting. So what is a good way to do this next time? Set up your shot camera in a solid tripod. Put one under-paper with three over-papers. Make one sandwich of two papers. Change the top paper between every shot. There is a cheap app to count your pellets for you! Watching how the patters build up to an average would be super informative! Those holes in the pattern... that's due to your ammunition and why some ammo costs a lot and is worth it and some ammo costs a lot and isn't and why some is cheap and a bargain and some is garbage :) Imagine throwing 5 pennies, 5 nickles, 5 dimes and 5 quarters on the table. Just once. You could deduce that pennies fall heads 80% of the time, nickles are 50/50, dimes tend to come up tails and quarters come up tails every time! Huh! Well, no. It's just stuff being random. You did show that you can spend a lot more.. and not do any better at all. I know you should shoot my lights out with a bolt action Mossberg and me with the most expensive shotgun in the universe! Keep up the great work!
Great video! I like your pause to discuss that others should do this with their shotguns. I would like to see this done with their choke tubes rather than the after-market. Three to five shots from each would be neat to compare those results to see if they are consistent in the patterns. Again, Great Video!
I like that idea. On this wanted I wanted to have all the choke tubes the same so it would be more about the gun/barrel rather than the choke. 👊 Stay Target 🎯Focused (Hebrews 12:1-3)
@@TargetFocusedLife How can you say they are the same chokes when you have 0.720 on Browning and 0.702 on others, that's a huge difference and it shows in the results??
I have done this many times from waterfowl patterns to turkey and have always found that a comparison in this fashion is not accurate do to the overwhelming variables that you can have with shotguns. For starters I test 4 def. Turkey loads in 2 def. Guns and not just one shot but 3 all at separate targets and found that 1 gun liked 3 inch 5 shot and the other liked 3.5 inch 6 shot. And when it comes to choke options there are so many to choose from over factory especially when it comes to duck hunting. Also most people don't realize that say on the browning maxus there are shims that can be swap out that allow you to adjust you shot placement such as high and low or your aim point. And furthermore your testing 1 load 1 round out of how many available on the market i personally reload my shotgun rounds and have found that once you go past 1450 fps your patterns start to blow out and have holes. But once you go down that road of reloading you realize there are so many combinations of wads alone to make your head spin. Take blackcloud for example only wad like it on the market.
Had the same issue with my Super Black eagle 3 in both 12 and 20. Installing the D shim fixed the issue in both. Also, trying kicks, patternmaster, carlson and jebs chokes most of the time the factory extended chokes performed best in patterning. Go figure. Great channel man, videos are very informative and great quality. 🍻🦆
I had the SBE3 two years ago. Same pattern. I put the lowest drop in shim and it still shot 100% high at 21 yards. Centers pattern 2 feet high and a foot left. Sold it.
There is a video how to fix that by moving the magazine tube ring. I didn't buy SBE3 because of the way they pattern.. My SBE2 shoots higher with steel than lead. Lead 60:40 steel 70:30. I have been told that European guns shhot high by design ?
Nice looking bike but poor quality control or poor transport.Rear wheel has major issues right out of the box. ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxHL1v1R3NE5x4KiYfyt8dnQmyNYz7qi5L Rear axle is bent! Derailleur is misaligned.Since the rear wheel comes assembled I would have expected better.Assembly instructions poorly written, but that was not unexpected...just annoying.I just had the bike checked at a shop and was told that I should contact the seller about getting a whole rear wheel assembly with cartridge. (The bike shop could not do anything to help me).Not a good experience with this bike, so lesson learned.Added 3 stars for excellent customer serviceUpdate Sept 8 2020Just received a complete replacement wheel for free. Great service and an otherwise fine bike.
Bro you are spot on I have the Benelli ethos sport. It is gorgeous and feels great in hand 2 grand on this thing. Shot it at skeet nights twice now hit less than 5 out of 25 multiple times. Wanted to snap it in half. Gave it to one of my buddies who is a marksman and runs his own training school , the guy can shoot he hit zero! He was pissed and happy at the same time because he was about to buy one, not anymore. I went back to my truck and grabbed my 800 dollar tristar 28 gauge over under and shot 16 and 18 out of 25 with same ammo. Man I’m pissed!!! Wish I saw this video before I sank all the cash into this Italian crap box ! Sticking to my mossburgs and browning and tri stars what crap . So many high end guns that don’t live up to the hype! It’s like handguns my canik rival shoots just as accurate as my 2000 dollar staccato p . And I have so many guns through the years that I lost so much money on!!! Thanks bro I will spend more time watching you and your buddy on the duck shoot channel,before I buy anything shotgun,ammo,chokes all of it you guys do great research thank you bro And GODS BLESSINGS TO YOU BROTHER!!!
Definitely exposes the importance of patterning your gun. Different loads and all of those results change. As hunters we owe it to our game to know what combos give acceptable results. Great video, it shows how important these things are.
Different barrel lengths too. Honestly the same choke on different guns can vary as well. Basically, the best thing to do is just find one that fits you well and shoot it (safely) enough at the range and skeets to where you are truly comfortable with it before hunting. Edit to Add: This is a great channel and video though, I agree.
I would like to see you send a shotgun to a gunsmith and see if the upgrades they do really help. Rob Robert’s is the go to guy for waterfowl hunters, I got a affinity 3 that I had him do internal and external upgrades to. He does forcing cone lengthening, polishing, porting, etc. would love to see a review over that.
I love to do stuff like that but it's also a good way not to make any friends if I have less than stellar things to say. 👊 Stay Target 🎯Focused (Hebrews 12:1-3)
@@OG_Ghost I still have that SBE II, I still like it and use it to hunt occasionally. But I also have Fabarm L4S that I love but couldn't shoot very well because it actually patterns correctly. I put a Eotech holographic sight on it. Sighted in where the pattern is 70/30 high when I'm aiming with the reticle. I'm a way better wing shooter with that sight. In fact, it's improved my shotgun shooting so much, that I don't know if I'll ever get another shotgun without being able to put another of the same type of sight on it also. I might try to put one on the SBE II, as well.
@@jayscott1380 appreciate the info! Will def look into it. I’ve been doing great with them SBE3 and I’m on point. It was the duck opener today in TX and I was 1 shy from a limit. But if this can help then it’s worth a deeper dive.
Liked the video, bought an SBE3 when they came out, worst shooting gun i have owned. Sent it to benelli, changed the shims, couldn't get it to shoot lower. Now it sits in my safe, almost to a point mentally where i can get rid of it and not be angry about the money lost on it.
Great video, really shows the importance of patterning before your season and knowing where your gun & ammo choice are landing on most shots. I didn't pattern last duck season and shot terrible. This year I took the time to pattern both chokes I frequently used, and did 5 shots per choke tube. Have already noticed I am shooting better knowing how my load/chokes tend to pattern.
I'd like to point out that there are differences in where the center of the pattern is, INTENTIONALLY, from the manufacturer. For the guns that shoot high, like the SBE, it is because of that. There's basically 3 main patterns, a 50/50, 60/40, and 70/30. The first number is percent of the pattern that is above the bead and the second number is what's below. I own a SBEII and can confidently say it is a 60/40, meaning it's going to shoot, at 40 yards, quite high. The point of this for hunting is better target identification and basically means you need to aim in line with the tail feathers of the bird. As for the right to left variances, I got no idea
Well done video, One thing to keep in mind is that in every pattern test I have tried, a ported choke will accentuate the holes within a pattern. In my experience, not sure why, but thats what I have found.
I’ve been looking for a new semi. Have used nothing but the 1187. Am going to pull the trigger on the Mossberg 940 Pro. Based on the number of videos, the price and performance results I’ve noted from the videos Steve has put up. So thank you for sharing.
I don't hunt but grabbed a 940 pro field I use for trap and some sporting clays thing runs like a champ, and slays regardless what I use it for factory choked or aftermarket
Being from the south we often hunt a area too thick for a rifle and use buckshot for deer. I would love to see a comparison with 00 and #4 buck with a aftermarket buckshot choke tube.
I’d be interested in seeing them with the factory modified chokes. I have a beretta a400 extreme plus and the factory choke out shoots every other choke I’ve tried.
Does your beretta a400 extreme shoot high and left like the Benelli super black eagle 3? I considered buying a beretta but I want to make sure I buy a gun that shoots point of aim.
@@natehowell9695: I don’t have an owners manual. Haven’t bout the gun yet. Before I bought the gun I wanted to make sure it shoots point of aim. Don’t want to make a mistake like I did with the Benelli SBE3.The Benelli SBE3 I bought shot high and left. Made all kinds of adjustments. Still shooting a tad high and left. I finally gave up and put a red dot on it. Found out I have astigmatism. Lol. So I want a gun that shoots where the front bead is pointing.
@@virgildailey1970 They shoot pretty true to POI, now I will say as someone who shoots shotgun competitively and duck hunts a ton I actually prefer to have a gun that shoots a bit higher so I can see the bird when shooting at it.
Try a Muller Decoy choke it’s expensive but great patterns with steel #4. 1 3/8oz 3” 1300fps out to 50 yards. My affinity 3 crushed ducks with that combo from 20 yards to 50 yards even swatting they on the water pats 50 crazy results with steel. Slower the steel the more deadly dense patterns
Great review, I love these reviews! I don't have all those guns but have done a ton of pattern testing at 40 yards with 6 different shotguns, most of which you had in your review. I have only tried the factory chokes and the Pattern Master code black duck and goose, and classic long range chokes. I have also shot over 40 different types of shells, different size shot, speeds, brands and payloads. But these tests I mention about here were only steel shot. I have done tests on lead and Bismuth also but don't find the Pattern Master chokes working as well. The Pattern Master choke did much better across the board with steel shot but there were still large variations between the different shells shot in each and every shotgun! There were a lot of very impressive patterns with a lot of shells including the Federal Blue box number 2's that you were shooting!!! Anxious to see your next videos and thank you very much for all your videos!!!
@Target Focused Life I don't know if you read all replies or comments but are you awarding prizes to people who make comments by asking them to respond via a text message? Or is this a Scam?
Great video Steve! I think if you were going to do this again I would do it with the same ammo, same distance, but with the factory chokes and being as though it’s 40 yards I would throw in the factory full, I personally don’t shoot many at 40 but i do pattern all my guns at 40 to see what it does on paper. Great video! I have a SBE3 that shoots a 70/30 pattern. My maxus 2 shoots dead on lights out with factory modified chokes. Most factory chokes pattern pretty good nowadays as long as your not trying to stretch it past 40 JMO.
@@jamesgoober8335 you can shoot steel in alot of them as long as you stay 4 shot or smaller. With 2 shot id go with improved modified. A lot of companies offer a factory Im choke that you can purchase from them.
Would like to see a review of the Fabarms XLR5 water fowler and the L4S hunter. A pattern test would be awesome. Thanks man as always excellent review on all these guns.
Have to tighten down barrel stop nut on the mag tube on the Benelli. This fixes the high left complaints. It put pressure on the barrel making it shoot high left
I have had outstanding results with 3" Kent 13/8 oz #1 for ducks and geese, out of both an SBE and an 1187, both sport Carlsons light modified tubes most shots are inside 50yds.
Yes sir 1300 fps is the ticket drop Dow to a number #4 way more pellets to hit the target plenty of energy to kill out to 45 yards I shot some min the water 55 yards dead with a range finder.
I owned a super black eagle 3 for a year, and had to sell it as I hated the fact it shot high. I want my gun to shoot where I am aiming, not above my aiming point. Great video
My sx4 is a 20 yard gun with how wide the pattern is with 2 shot and a improved modified choke. I try to use 4s, which patterns a lot better. Sucker is reliable as hell too
Seems fixed choke does better than change choke , old savage full fixed best patterns I ever seen (these chokes we're not even made by the gun maker) trying to many chokes to many shotguns,we can't do all that glad u do I'm learning a lot from u great video
I appreciate your effort here, a lot of time went into this, but at the end of the day every gun is different and so are the POIs. Ex: I have two different barrels for the same gun and the POI is WAY different for each. You may find, for example, that one of the benelli or browning guns pattern better with a different load. Even two of the same brand and model may be different. This goes for chokes too. While I too have heard the POI on some of these is far from where the bead points, it's hard to definitively say brand "xyz" is atrocious on the pattern board every single time with every single load and choke combo. I also would like to add, you didn't use the stock choke which was made by each gun manufacturer for that gun. That could matter too. Just a lot of variables here. I think if anything, the take home is find the choke and shell combo that your gun and you like. So in that regard, I think you really proved a point.
When reviewing a shotgun please use the chokes that are furnished with the gun. There are many aftermarket chokes available and all of the guns will pattern differently with different brands of chokes and their point of impact may change as well. Also please measure the bore and amount of constriction of each factory choke and provide that information. If you set up to test a specific shot-shell loading please try each shotgun with the factory appropriate choke in place. Use a standard range such as 30" circle at 30 yards for your testing then maybe try to test at extended range. I find your videos always entertaining but not always that informative. I like the way you measure stock dimensions I just wish you would do the same for barrel and choke dimensions. To me no shotgun review is complete without pattern testing. I realize you have a relationship with Carlson's chokes and I have used their chokes in the past and found them excellent but in a gun review we should be testing the gun as delivered to the customer. If you want you can also test the Carlson's chokes alongside the factory chokes. This is just my 2 cents worth and I realize that I might not be your target audiance. Thanks.
I've liked and shot Brownings since I was sixteen years old, (now 64), but I've never cared for the stock Invector choke tubes that came with them. Usually replaced them with Carlson or Briley tubes and the patterns improved.
Very cool but I agree with some people in the comments. You should use the same type of choke in all the guns but you should use the ones that come with the guns. Also not fair to shoot 1 of the guns twice just because you weren't happy with it. Each gun should be shot 3 times and use 2nd best pattern out of the three shots to give you some sort of average. Also is it better to pattern with a higher bb count shell? Just my input. I am making a new purchase after this season so I love all the info I can get. Was hoping to see the retay masai mara and the browning silver. Totally weird not seeing a remington in the mix. A remington 410 was the first shotgun I ever shot and was my first gun that I learned to shoot with. When I was old enough to purchase my first firearm it was a remington 878 automaster deluxe that was made in between 1959-1963. I have had it for well over 15 yrs and have used it every dove season, clay shooting and sometimes even crow hunting. I shot a 1187 for waterfowl around 10yrs with no real problems then retired it for a browning a5 that I have used for several years now but its getting retired after this season. Got a few contenders for my new gun. Cheaper options-CZ1012,stoeger 3m3000,rock island, Tristar. More expensive-Beretta a300 ultima, browning silver, franchi affinity3,weatherby element. Most expensive- Benelli sbe3, Beretta a400,retay masai mara,Browning maxusii wicked wing. So far I'm leaning towards franchi affinity3,weatherby element,browning silver, beretta a300 ultima or retay masai mara. Any info on any of these would be helpful. Sorry for the paragraph 😅
Great Video!!! I would like to see you include in a subsequent video the results of the Benelli Cordoba B.E.S.T, Montefeltro and M2. These test should be repeated with comparable stock chokes for the individual guns to make the comparison fair. The patterns may be closer to ideal than an aftermarket choke.
I have the sx4 and tried an aftermarket waterfowl choke tube and found out the stock full patterned better . The aftermarket also shot high . Thanks for the review ! Was thinking about an SBE3 but think ill go with the beretta instead.
Next I would like to have you take your top 3 patterning guns and test them with the factory choke tube vs. the Carlson’s. Would love to see if the aftermarket choke tube is truly an upgrade.
I love my massberg 835 pump mainly because the safety is on the stock of the gun right above your thumb. Only thing that is holding me back from the 940 is it being gas. I personally like the inertia guns more due to hunting in cold weather and watching many of my friends has guns freeze and not cycle.
I just purchased my first semi auto waterfowl firearm, when I walked in I asked to try out the benelli super Vinci, and when I shouldered it, everything about it felt right, next will be patterning with the chokes I’ve ordered
Steve after going through your data I’d like see three things 1. Use better Ammo cheap ammo in don’t dependable, if I go hunting I want to shot bird clean as possible 2. Use the same length of barrels looked you had a big mixture of lengths 3. Use the factory chokes compare all mod, full or improved just all the same. A shotgun that costs $1,700 to $ 2,000 should come with good chokes so you don’t have to spend several hundred $$ for chokes. JMO BUT IT WAS A GREAT REVIEW YOU PUT ALOT OF TIME AND EFFORT INTO PRESETTING A FAIR TEST THANKS
Thanks for making this video. Pattern and POI are major considerations when I shop for a shotgun. Love to see this included in all your reviews. Awesome stuff as always!!
Good video but I'd say do it with the OEM mod chokes. I have Hella fancy chokes and honestly I've found the oem mod patterned the best in my super vinci.
Shim kits, bud. Understanding how they work and how to install em. Most models come with them in the package. That'll fix alot of people's problems with their guns shooting high, left, or anywhere else that's undesirable. Maybe make a video on that.
I have patterned thousands of load / choke / gun combinations. Many times I have taken the choke out of one gun and pop it in another (same brand, make and load) and get a completely different pattern. I had one particular Benelli SBE1 24" that would put 98% of Federal premium BBB in a 30" circle at 40 yds. I have not been able to get any other combination even close but it would not pattern smaller shot well. Point is Waterfowlers need to pattern their guns with multiple chokes (starting with the factory tubes) and multiple loads to find what works for them. Trulock and Briley Chokes seem to work best for me and I shoot everything from cheap Escorts to Benelli and even have a Savage Renegauge which you left out of your video.
Thanks for all you do! Thanks for saving me the time and Money. I am a Big Franchi - Benelli fan. My Franchi shoots just like yours did in the video, (High and a little to the left.) I miss a lot of ducks. I might have to re-think my shotgun choice, or practice more. Thanks again.
Great video. Can you plz repeat this test with one variable: barrel length. Can you still achieve good patterning with shorter barrels ( 22, 24, 26 inch)
It was the video where you reviewed all of them when it was freezing outside testing between inertia and gas semi automatics and I was disappointed when I saw that stoeger get messed up because it’s what I have lol! Great video!
I have both the maxus and A5. I have found my best patterns come from either the factory choke or pattern master code black. Very consistent and no holes in either out to 35-40 yards. I also use boss bismuth shotshells
Yup I find the aftermarket chokes don’t always do it the factory tube is all I ever use. Funny how it seems like they know what works with the shotgun they designed 😅
I've had my Weatherby Element for a bit over a year now, hunted ND, KS, MO with it, it has taken down pheasants, doves, geese, quail, you name it, if it flies, it dies. Reliable, hasn't failed me, even in single digis. I got it for $400 NIB and the customer service is awesome! My only complaint is the charging handle....in cold temps, its like your grabbing the business end of a Ka-Bar and after an exhaustive search (Weatherby doesn't make an extended/comp charging handle for the Element) I found a company called Grumpy Duck that makes a nice charging handle with a bird band...its been a conversation starter on every hunt I go on.
So I’ve done this same process with mine that’s actually in this list and didn’t do good…however bought boxes of multiple different brands, shot, size, loads and material in them…also bought multiple different chokes for it and at the end of the day I was able to find out what my gun shot the best with and what it shot the worst with what choke it liked at different ranges and now I have only 2 kinds of Ammo and two chokes…well worth $600 off Ammo and chokes to have confidence in my shot placement and pattern
I patterned my original maxus one day and at 30 yards I had 91% in a 30" circle and 83% at 40 yards with a Carlson creamator for a choke. It did that with a 3.5 Winchester xperts #2
I have a Weatherby Element and can honestly say it preforms better then my "once owned" Benelli M2. At half the price of the Benelli the Turkish Element kicked it's rear.
Another excellent video. This the type of content I love to see - very practical and helpful in making purchasing decisions. The only improvement I would suggest is to increase your shot count. I know it's a lot more work but this is important when comparing figures from different guns. The results from one shot could be an anomaly. You would need at least three shots from each gun to confirm that the results are real.
I love my Franchi 3 I bought it 7 years ago never failed well known as the sharpest long range shooter between my fellow using carlsons long range choke tube , still trying to upgrade but simply I can’t .
You are right. Always pattern you shot gun. Some guns don't like certain ammo and choke tubes. Some like any. Use what works best in your gun. If you can afford and or find any available.
The amount of work that went into this is impressive….. you should pattern 12 vrs 16 vrs 20 vrs 28 vrs 410. See how many pellets you loose per caliber down range
Patterned my element with the factory long range steel choke it came with. Federal speed shok 3” #4 shot. At 40 yards the pattern was extremely impressive. Wish I could add pictures to these comments.
I think you should do a video about how to pattern. And maybe demo strate why. Like shoot the same gun/choke/ammo multiple time and count pellets. Then change one variable and repeat to show the need for sample size etc.
I’m with you on Benelli.. I thought I was buying the best when I bought my SBE2 and I hated that thing until I sold it and still hate it. Now I bought the little brother Affinity and can really whack the birds with it. Just a better fit and it still hits high but I’m used to it
I love your reviews I can only afford a Weatherby. I’ve loved Weatherby for 30 years have the Orion 12 gauge of shot for years. My sons got a 20 gauge Weatherby element. He loves it did have problem with ammo, but we finally figured it out it needed more than 1300 ft./s high brass high velocity it worked amazing for less than 700 bucks. Have you ever done a test on the Weatherby 1800 I which is Weatherby is high end guns they run from $13-$1800.
Because center of pattern point can vary depending on many factors like different chokes and ammunition being the most likely to have to/ want to change. I use a Burris Speed Bead with a red dot to be able to adjust the point of aim. It also helps if you are having problems mounting the shotgun incorrectly.
Love my stoeger 3500, no issues with it at all. Then mossberg 835. The battle tank of shotguns. Lastly mossberg 9200 only 3" but an incredible gun for the price
Have you ever had a forcing cone of a barrel lengthened? I read that it prevents pellets from deforming and reduces recoil. Would be cool to see that. Another idea is 26 inch barrels vs 28 and 30
I would love to see @Target Focused Life do a video or talk about barrel length vs pattern. I am tired of hearing the argument that "the longer the barrel, the better the pattern" Would love to see a test done with the same model of gun (if possible), same choke, ammunition etc. 24 vs 26 vs 28 vs 30 inch
Most guys have just one particular gun they beat the hell out of duck hunting. Choose your ammo and vary chokes on pattern targets until you get what you are looking for. If point of impact is off you need to look at gun fit and/or a poor cheek weld. Of course if you have access to more brands of ammo….try them as they could show a slight difference in pattern.
Just curious - the Benelli guns, as well as others come with shim kits to adjust drop and cast. This will make a significant difference in point of impact. I have several Benellis (but not an SBE-III) and changed the shims from the way they came from the factory and got them all "dialed in" so they shoot where I expect. Was there any attempt to do this before testing.
Likely not. Additionally you pattern a shotgun properly by shooting different loads through it. Small sample sizes with the cheapest waterfowl ammo and with non factory chokes makes this objectively worthless.
I have found that aftermarket choke tubes are not always the best when pattern testing. Maybe that's just me. But that's why when I pattern test a shot gun and it does well with factory tubes, I don't change it.
Great review. Like you said, every gun and load will perform differently so always pattern your own guns with the ammo you plan to use. I have also been impressed with the Weatherby Element.
I had an Element for a year. It was a total lemon of a gun. Could not get it to pattern worth a darn, I'm talking awful patterns. Sold it and couldn't be happier to move on.
I have a 20 ga and a 12 ga Element and both have been 100% reliable with the loads I have tried. They also both pattern well, again with the loads I have tried. Every gun is unique in the way it performs, that's why we test them. Of course any shooting we get to do is fun!
Just bought a super black eagle 3 and took it straight to the blind without testing and I couldn’t hit anything. Shooting high is probably why hahah. Good to know so I can adjust. Also should probably go shoot some clays before I go out again
Use the d shim and it will pull down the shot. I went back and forth with benelli and finally got it good to go. Kicks full choke is a deadly combination.
Good video and review of patterns with the carlsons but would like to see it with stock modified chokes that come with the gun, understand that carlsons might be a sponsor but stock tubes are a true test of what your actually getting what you pay for
I do pattern test every 2nd year with the same shotgun I've used for hunting for around 25 years with different chokes. As with riffles some guns don´t like certain ammo and in my experience, cheap ammo is in general not good ammo. Maybe good for the wallet when you take it out of the store shelve, but in the end you will pay more due to lack of performance. I shoot minimum 5 shoots with each choke with the same ammo. As I've done this with the same gun for around 25 years, I think I've got a decent test result from many different manufacturer and surprisingly (or not) the result can even vary with the same brand two years later which can be in relations to changes made in the manufacturing process or other adjustment made by the producer. I've also done this for other shotgun I own and they show similar pattern, that is different gun can behave differently to different kind of ammo. If I compare the result with the price of each shoot to try to determine which brand give me the best result (best for the buck), then in general the result is has been almost the same all the time. That ammo which is little above the medium price range gives me the best result for the bucks. In most cases I eventually end up choosing what gives me the best result, not what it cost as the best result means less wounded birds and in my eyes that is the key for hunting.
My man... As a Big Waterfowler for over 30yrs, I can honestly say great job on the video. Really well thought out...
I've owned almost all of the top 3 Duck guns, Brownings, Binelli's, and Beretta's and shot basically everything else...I've also owned a few sets of Carlson's chokes..
However, you CANNOT judge these guns using aftermarket chokes, especially Binelli's and Beretta's...IMO the Crio-Choke System for Binelli's is second to none.
Again, great job on the video but I feel all these Firearms need to be test fired using they're factory chokes as that's how they're designed. Cheers brother
Agreed. It would definitely show what the manufacturer intended better
It seems a little off to me that you are judging a shotgun with someone else's choke in it. Who is to say it's not the choke. I'd like to see this test all with factory chokes, then you are judging the manufacturer more fairly.
Come to our waterfowl & turkey pattern series that’s how we do it
Word. Like put a full in shoot and then maybe like a modified
@@BlueCollarOutdoorsUSA wow I’m surprised to see you guys here!
I totally agree. I want to see each shotgun tested with their choke.
Unfortunately, this test is wrong
Agreed. I’ve tried a kicks highflier in my M2 and carlsons Cremator midrange in my affinity 3 and both patterned horribly! Screw in the factory modified chokes in both guns and they patterned excellent. I actually threw the cremator in the swamp mid hunt because I made the mistake of not patterning it before hand!
I appreciate this content, patterning is difficult to compare fairly and you have one of a precious few platforms where you can actually test it. I suspect the Beretta engineers have a portion of the customer base that are serious target shooters that actually pattern their guns and are held accountable about patterns more than most other manufacturers that have "good enough" patterns. If you make a video like this again I would love to see factory chokes, and other ammo run through these. I know how much work it is though I have done some rudimentary patterning myself and really appreciate additional information shared here.
Great videos! Really fun content. I would like to see a round two with a few tweaks to make it apples to apples, ie more scientific. Couple ideas to consider, you would want a much larger data set, at least 7+ shots per gun. Barrel length needs to be addressed. Greater attention to affixing and resetting the gun fixture and assuring starting position is the same on every shot. Laser for aiming should be used to standard aiming on target between all shots. I personally like that you standardized the choke across all platforms. Maybe add short discussion of pros and cons and address any risk that it could cause any of the platform to underperform. I would go as far as getting approval from each gun manufacturer's engineering team to use the choke in that gun and their input on expected performance.
Exactly! Use the factory choke in which the manufacturer did it's R&D with. I've owned the Browning. Berettas and Winchester . The Browning Invector is always wider and you have to choke down. I've spent hundreds on chokes and ammo to get the best patterns. It takes time and money and most of the time the factory chokes perform just as well as the magic chokes lol. Ammo choice is the key.
Yes! You seem to be saying "Buy a new shotgun and throw the factory choke away!" Well, lets see how the choke you actually bought works! I see the problem though.. my shotgun can shoot steel shot with the full choke.. and most just simply CAN'T DO IT. So lets see how they pattern lead because... pheasants.
As others have said. If you change out the shim you will move the position of the rear site, your eye, in relation to the bead. Therefore, you will now have a different aim point. Changing the cast shim will move it left and right. That will change your point of impact to match point of aim. Now, how does that Franchi you didn't even mention look?! You can send it to me if you don't want it, please. Listen to Jerry at 8:25 on your Mossberg 940 pro video. Hint: Tape a straw to the top of your receiver. Close your eyes and mount the shotgun. Open your eyes. If you are looking down the straw and see your front bead your good. If you are looking above the straw add drop. If you are looking below the straw reduce drop or add a pad to add height to your stock if you have to. If you are looking left of the straw add more cast off. If you are looking right of the straw reduce cast off, if you are right handed. If your length of pull is way off you may be outside the ability of your shims to adjust correctly. bonus point - Don't freeze your shotguns.
I really appreciate all of your reviews, they are fantastic, and the best on UA-cam IMO This one felt too unscientific. If you shoot the same gun 3 times at a fresh target, you will see significant variances, especially in the area of pattern gaps & white space. The statistical variance in pellet stacking within the shell, load in the shell, aim point, air patterns, all effect a single shot. You should have shot twice, maybe the times at the same target. Sure it makes the pellet counting a real problem (and masks the gaps), but a multi shot average is much more representative of what a gun is really doing on target and with the overall pattern. The A400 being an example, sure the first shot was a little off target due to the sled but all of the attributes of the pattern were far better the second time.
Just to test the theory, grab any gun and shoot 4 separate patterns, same load, same choke, same distance, ... Then compare four, take the best and worst examples and compare them for us. I think it will show all of us when we go out and pattern our guns, shoot multiple patterns to ensure you get the consistent repeatable picture.
absolutely on-target comment. I don't think there is any way to get even simplistic data without a 5-shot average for each gun.
Frozen semi auto torture test. Stoeger and Benelli handles broke. I beat my M3500 to death and when I saw that failure I got a titanium charging handle. No issues so far. Gun just seems to work. I really want to try a Winchester SX4 Hybrid in grey. Keep it up Steve, love all the shottys!
Lucky for you, i’ve hunted with the stoeger for about 4 years and it was reliable for the first two years, after that it was clicking and stove piping like crazy, even after thorough cleaning
Nice Review! Use the factory choke in which the manufacturer did it's R&D with. I've owned the Browning. Berettas, Benelli, Winchester, Fabarm and Kolar . The Browning Invector is always wider and you have to choke down. I've spent hundreds on chokes and ammo to get the best patterns. It takes time and money and most of the time the factory chokes perform just as well as the magic chokes lol. Ammo choice is the key.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Bruh... You are more than a Ambassador for the Shotgun world, the way you present these arms and their performance is amazing, you are a true facilitator, I respect all the hard, this channel is our favourite 12 gauge channel in YT, thank you Bruh so much for these videos.
You should do this again with factory modified chokes. I’ve seen a lot of people say that factory chokes often pattern better than aftermarket chokes
Totally gun and choke specific.
My franchi affinity 3.5 patterns better with factory than any other after market I’ve found out. Same with my sx4. I’ve noticed about the same pattern with a Carlson’s cremator choke modified with the sx4
Same with my weatherby
Thanks for the additional reviews.
Having done some testing on both my 12 and 20 ga Winchester SX4 I found almost dead even distribution of pellets in all 4 quadrants of the 30 inch circle. I did find flyers as well outside.
I’ve also found that I have taken way more birds with a slightly tighter choke- example my 20 ga I typically do much better with a tighter choke. Even with steel, rather than use improved cylinder I seem to fare better with a modified. I just ordered a light mod and improved mod chokes to do some tested. Note: I shoot almost exclusively upland game so my point of aim is typically at the top of the head on the majority of birds.
I love your videos. This one was a lot of work and not much fun. I think what you're seeing is a true representation of "Shotgun patterns have randomness."
"The patterns have holes in them... so I will pick the best" or "This time I have 18 pellets in the duck"... when it comes to practical ducks... you don't get do-overs duck hunting. So what is a good way to do this next time?
Set up your shot camera in a solid tripod. Put one under-paper with three over-papers. Make one sandwich of two papers. Change the top paper between every shot. There is a cheap app to count your pellets for you! Watching how the patters build up to an average would be super informative!
Those holes in the pattern... that's due to your ammunition and why some ammo costs a lot and is worth it and some ammo costs a lot and isn't and why some is cheap and a bargain and some is garbage :)
Imagine throwing 5 pennies, 5 nickles, 5 dimes and 5 quarters on the table. Just once. You could deduce that pennies fall heads 80% of the time, nickles are 50/50, dimes tend to come up tails and quarters come up tails every time! Huh! Well, no. It's just stuff being random.
You did show that you can spend a lot more.. and not do any better at all. I know you should shoot my lights out with a bolt action Mossberg and me with the most expensive shotgun in the universe! Keep up the great work!
Love the video I would love to see the same test with factory chokes and 2 diff loads. Great video
Great video! I like your pause to discuss that others should do this with their shotguns. I would like to see this done with their choke tubes rather than the after-market. Three to five shots from each would be neat to compare those results to see if they are consistent in the patterns. Again, Great Video!
I like that idea. On this wanted I wanted to have all the choke tubes the same so it would be more about the gun/barrel rather than the choke. 👊 Stay Target 🎯Focused (Hebrews 12:1-3)
@@TargetFocusedLife are you awarding prizes through the comments via text message
@@TargetFocusedLife How can you say they are the same chokes when you have 0.720 on Browning and 0.702 on others, that's a huge difference and it shows in the results??
Hi Steve, i shoot a 28” maxus 2 factory chokes using the shims Ive got it set to shoot where i want it ,, best semi I’ve shot to date
@@TargetFocusedLife it's all about getting many geese with a single shot and in the longest ranges
I have done this many times from waterfowl patterns to turkey and have always found that a comparison in this fashion is not accurate do to the overwhelming variables that you can have with shotguns. For starters I test 4 def. Turkey loads in 2 def. Guns and not just one shot but 3 all at separate targets and found that 1 gun liked 3 inch 5 shot and the other liked 3.5 inch 6 shot. And when it comes to choke options there are so many to choose from over factory especially when it comes to duck hunting. Also most people don't realize that say on the browning maxus there are shims that can be swap out that allow you to adjust you shot placement such as high and low or your aim point. And furthermore your testing 1 load 1 round out of how many available on the market i personally reload my shotgun rounds and have found that once you go past 1450 fps your patterns start to blow out and have holes. But once you go down that road of reloading you realize there are so many combinations of wads alone to make your head spin. Take blackcloud for example only wad like it on the market.
Had the same issue with my Super Black eagle 3 in both 12 and 20. Installing the D shim fixed the issue in both. Also, trying kicks, patternmaster, carlson and jebs chokes most of the time the factory extended chokes performed best in patterning. Go figure. Great channel man, videos are very informative and great quality. 🍻🦆
Did you contact this number
No
I had the SBE3 two years ago. Same pattern. I put the lowest drop in shim and it still shot 100% high at 21 yards. Centers pattern 2 feet high and a foot left. Sold it.
There is a video how to fix that by moving the magazine tube ring. I didn't buy SBE3 because of the way they pattern..
My SBE2 shoots higher with steel than lead. Lead 60:40 steel 70:30.
I have been told that European guns shhot high by design ?
Nice looking bike but poor quality control or poor transport.Rear wheel has major issues right out of the box. ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxHL1v1R3NE5x4KiYfyt8dnQmyNYz7qi5L Rear axle is bent! Derailleur is misaligned.Since the rear wheel comes assembled I would have expected better.Assembly instructions poorly written, but that was not unexpected...just annoying.I just had the bike checked at a shop and was told that I should contact the seller about getting a whole rear wheel assembly with cartridge. (The bike shop could not do anything to help me).Not a good experience with this bike, so lesson learned.Added 3 stars for excellent customer serviceUpdate Sept 8 2020Just received a complete replacement wheel for free. Great service and an otherwise fine bike.
Bro you are spot on I have the Benelli ethos sport. It is gorgeous and feels great in hand 2 grand on this thing. Shot it at skeet nights twice now hit less than 5 out of 25 multiple times. Wanted to snap it in half. Gave it to one of my buddies who is a marksman and runs his own training school , the guy can shoot he hit zero! He was pissed and happy at the same time because he was about to buy one, not anymore. I went back to my truck and grabbed my 800 dollar tristar 28 gauge over under and shot 16 and 18 out of 25 with same ammo. Man I’m pissed!!! Wish I saw this video before I sank all the cash into this Italian crap box ! Sticking to my mossburgs and browning and tri stars what crap . So many high end guns that don’t live up to the hype! It’s like handguns my canik rival shoots just as accurate as my 2000 dollar staccato p . And I have so many guns through the years that I lost so much money on!!! Thanks bro I will spend more time watching you and your buddy on the duck shoot channel,before I buy anything shotgun,ammo,chokes all of it you guys do great research thank you bro And GODS BLESSINGS TO YOU BROTHER!!!
I would love to see the exact same test, except use the factory choke that comes with the gun
Did you contact this number
@@justinhuddleston2303 I did
Definitely exposes the importance of patterning your gun. Different loads and all of those results change. As hunters we owe it to our game to know what combos give acceptable results. Great video, it shows how important these things are.
Different barrel lengths too. Honestly the same choke on different guns can vary as well. Basically, the best thing to do is just find one that fits you well and shoot it (safely) enough at the range and skeets to where you are truly comfortable with it before hunting.
Edit to Add: This is a great channel and video though, I agree.
I would like to see you send a shotgun to a gunsmith and see if the upgrades they do really help. Rob Robert’s is the go to guy for waterfowl hunters, I got a affinity 3 that I had him do internal and external upgrades to. He does forcing cone lengthening, polishing, porting, etc. would love to see a review over that.
I love to do stuff like that but it's also a good way not to make any friends if I have less than stellar things to say. 👊 Stay Target 🎯Focused (Hebrews 12:1-3)
@@TargetFocusedLife are you legitimately giving away prizes via text message
I grew up with a SBE II. I instinctually put my bead below target. I didn't even know why until recently reading about SBEs patterning high.
Agreed! They have purposely said they make them shoot high so you can keep your eye on the bird and the bead should be below it.
@@OG_Ghost I still have that SBE II, I still like it and use it to hunt occasionally. But I also have Fabarm L4S that I love but couldn't shoot very well because it actually patterns correctly. I put a Eotech holographic sight on it. Sighted in where the pattern is 70/30 high when I'm aiming with the reticle. I'm a way better wing shooter with that sight. In fact, it's improved my shotgun shooting so much, that I don't know if I'll ever get another shotgun without being able to put another of the same type of sight on it also. I might try to put one on the SBE II, as well.
@@jayscott1380 appreciate the info! Will def look into it. I’ve been doing great with them SBE3 and I’m on point. It was the duck opener today in TX and I was 1 shy from a limit. But if this can help then it’s worth a deeper dive.
Liked the video, bought an SBE3 when they came out, worst shooting gun i have owned. Sent it to benelli, changed the shims, couldn't get it to shoot lower. Now it sits in my safe, almost to a point mentally where i can get rid of it and not be angry about the money lost on it.
Great video, really shows the importance of patterning before your season and knowing where your gun & ammo choice are landing on most shots. I didn't pattern last duck season and shot terrible. This year I took the time to pattern both chokes I frequently used, and did 5 shots per choke tube. Have already noticed I am shooting better knowing how my load/chokes tend to pattern.
You are doing it right my friend. Thanks for sharing 👊 Stay Target 🎯Focused (Hebrews 12:1-3)
So what do you do to change the pattern? Is it just changing choke brands?
I'd like to point out that there are differences in where the center of the pattern is, INTENTIONALLY, from the manufacturer. For the guns that shoot high, like the SBE, it is because of that. There's basically 3 main patterns, a 50/50, 60/40, and 70/30. The first number is percent of the pattern that is above the bead and the second number is what's below. I own a SBEII and can confidently say it is a 60/40, meaning it's going to shoot, at 40 yards, quite high. The point of this for hunting is better target identification and basically means you need to aim in line with the tail feathers of the bird. As for the right to left variances, I got no idea
Well done video, One thing to keep in mind is that in every pattern test I have tried, a ported choke will accentuate the holes within a pattern. In my experience, not sure why, but thats what I have found.
I’ve been looking for a new semi. Have used nothing but the 1187. Am going to pull the trigger on the Mossberg 940 Pro. Based on the number of videos, the price and performance results I’ve noted from the videos Steve has put up. So thank you for sharing.
I don't hunt but grabbed a 940 pro field I use for trap and some sporting clays thing runs like a champ, and slays regardless what I use it for factory choked or aftermarket
I have SBE3 factory mod choke works perfect. I am Using BB for duck and Goose . Long range I like Kicks High flyer extra full.
Being from the south we often hunt a area too thick for a rifle and use buckshot for deer. I would love to see a comparison with 00 and #4 buck with a aftermarket buckshot choke tube.
I’d be interested in seeing them with the factory modified chokes. I have a beretta a400 extreme plus and the factory choke out shoots every other choke I’ve tried.
Does your beretta a400 extreme shoot high and left like the Benelli super black eagle 3? I considered buying a beretta but I want to make sure I buy a gun that shoots point of aim.
@@virgildailey1970 beretta are designed to be adjusted how high or low they shoot when sighting them in look in your owners manual
@@natehowell9695: I don’t have an owners manual. Haven’t bout the gun yet. Before I bought the gun I wanted to make sure it shoots point of aim. Don’t want to make a mistake like I did with the Benelli SBE3.The Benelli SBE3 I bought shot high and left. Made all kinds of adjustments. Still shooting a tad high and left. I finally gave up and put a red dot on it. Found out I have astigmatism. Lol. So I want a gun that shoots where the front bead is pointing.
@@virgildailey1970 They shoot pretty true to POI, now I will say as someone who shoots shotgun competitively and duck hunts a ton I actually prefer to have a gun that shoots a bit higher so I can see the bird when shooting at it.
Thanks for all the info! These videos are amazing! I just bought a Franchi Affinity 3 Waterfowl Elite from Reeds.
Try a Muller Decoy choke it’s expensive but great patterns with steel #4. 1 3/8oz 3” 1300fps out to 50 yards. My affinity 3 crushed ducks with that combo from 20 yards to 50 yards even swatting they on the water pats 50 crazy results with steel. Slower the steel the more deadly dense patterns
Great review, I love these reviews! I don't have all those guns but have done a ton of pattern testing at 40 yards with 6 different shotguns, most of which you had in your review. I have only tried the factory chokes and the Pattern Master code black duck and goose, and classic long range chokes. I have also shot over 40 different types of shells, different size shot, speeds, brands and payloads. But these tests I mention about here were only steel shot. I have done tests on lead and Bismuth also but don't find the Pattern Master chokes working as well. The Pattern Master choke did much better across the board with steel shot but there were still large variations between the different shells shot in each and every shotgun! There were a lot of very impressive patterns with a lot of shells including the Federal Blue box number 2's that you were shooting!!! Anxious to see your next videos and thank you very much for all your videos!!!
@Target Focused Life I don't know if you read all replies or comments but are you awarding prizes to people who make comments by asking them to respond via a text message? Or is this a Scam?
Great job! It would be interesting to use just one gun but with several different choke tubes from different manufacturers.
You hit the nail on the head
Great video Steve! I think if you were going to do this again I would do it with the same ammo, same distance, but with the factory chokes and being as though it’s 40 yards I would throw in the factory full, I personally don’t shoot many at 40 but i do pattern all my guns at 40 to see what it does on paper. Great video! I have a SBE3 that shoots a 70/30 pattern. My maxus 2 shoots dead on lights out with factory modified chokes. Most factory chokes pattern pretty good nowadays as long as your not trying to stretch it past 40 JMO.
you cant even shoot steel shot through most factory full chokes lol, unless he's only shooting lead i havnt watched the whole video yet
He’s shooting steel with a modified choke Id shoot a tighter choke at 40 yards but I shoot bismuth not steel so I can use a full choke……
@@jamesgoober8335 you can shoot steel in alot of them as long as you stay 4 shot or smaller. With 2 shot id go with improved modified. A lot of companies offer a factory Im choke that you can purchase from them.
@@sethlindsey1359 beretta a400 factory chokes modified is as tight as you can go thats rated for steel, thats all im familiar with
I bought a A400 extreme plus but I didn’t pay 1800 it was cheaper when it first came out, I use it for everything dove, duck and turkey love it
Just bought one for a little over 1500. I'm super excited about it.
Thank for all the effort, you're the most complete shotgun channel on youtube, keep up the good work sir and all your team!
Would like to see a review of the Fabarms XLR5 water fowler and the L4S hunter. A pattern test would be awesome. Thanks man as always excellent review on all these guns.
Have to tighten down barrel stop nut on the mag tube on the Benelli. This fixes the high left complaints. It put pressure on the barrel making it shoot high left
I have had outstanding results with 3" Kent 13/8 oz #1 for ducks and geese, out of both an SBE and an 1187, both sport Carlsons light modified tubes most shots are inside 50yds.
Yes sir 1300 fps is the ticket drop Dow to a number #4 way more pellets to hit the target plenty of energy to kill out to 45 yards I shot some min the water 55 yards dead with a range finder.
I owned a super black eagle 3 for a year, and had to sell it as I hated the fact it shot high. I want my gun to shoot where I am aiming, not above my aiming point. Great video
Great video would love to see you redo this test using each guns out of the box stock choke tube 👍
Did you contact this number
They are scammers. I am nonstop reporting and deleting....so frustrating
My sx4 is a 20 yard gun with how wide the pattern is with 2 shot and a improved modified choke.
I try to use 4s, which patterns a lot better.
Sucker is reliable as hell too
Seems fixed choke does better than change choke , old savage full fixed best patterns I ever seen (these chokes we're not even made by the gun maker) trying to many chokes to many shotguns,we can't do all that glad u do I'm learning a lot from u great video
where you were hitting the charging handles with rubber mallet they broke
I appreciate your effort here, a lot of time went into this, but at the end of the day every gun is different and so are the POIs. Ex: I have two different barrels for the same gun and the POI is WAY different for each. You may find, for example, that one of the benelli or browning guns pattern better with a different load. Even two of the same brand and model may be different. This goes for chokes too. While I too have heard the POI on some of these is far from where the bead points, it's hard to definitively say brand "xyz" is atrocious on the pattern board every single time with every single load and choke combo. I also would like to add, you didn't use the stock choke which was made by each gun manufacturer for that gun. That could matter too. Just a lot of variables here. I think if anything, the take home is find the choke and shell combo that your gun and you like. So in that regard, I think you really proved a point.
Incredibly informative and useful as I'm researching for my first waterfowl gun. Thanks!
When reviewing a shotgun please use the chokes that are furnished with the gun. There are many aftermarket chokes available and all of the guns will pattern differently with different brands of chokes and their point of impact may change as well. Also please measure the bore and amount of constriction of each factory choke and provide that information. If you set up to test a specific shot-shell loading please try each shotgun with the factory appropriate choke in place. Use a standard range such as 30" circle at 30 yards for your testing then maybe try to test at extended range. I find your videos always entertaining but not always that informative. I like the way you measure stock dimensions I just wish you would do the same for barrel and choke dimensions. To me no shotgun review is complete without pattern testing. I realize you have a relationship with Carlson's chokes and I have used their chokes in the past and found them excellent but in a gun review we should be testing the gun as delivered to the customer. If you want you can also test the Carlson's chokes alongside the factory chokes. This is just my 2 cents worth and I realize that I might not be your target audiance. Thanks.
I would have liked to see the Retay Masai Mara in this group as they also tout their barrel technology.
I've liked and shot Brownings since I was sixteen years old, (now 64), but I've never cared for the stock Invector choke tubes that came with them. Usually replaced them with Carlson or Briley tubes and the patterns improved.
Very cool but I agree with some people in the comments. You should use the same type of choke in all the guns but you should use the ones that come with the guns. Also not fair to shoot 1 of the guns twice just because you weren't happy with it. Each gun should be shot 3 times and use 2nd best pattern out of the three shots to give you some sort of average. Also is it better to pattern with a higher bb count shell? Just my input. I am making a new purchase after this season so I love all the info I can get. Was hoping to see the retay masai mara and the browning silver. Totally weird not seeing a remington in the mix. A remington 410 was the first shotgun I ever shot and was my first gun that I learned to shoot with. When I was old enough to purchase my first firearm it was a remington 878 automaster deluxe that was made in between 1959-1963. I have had it for well over 15 yrs and have used it every dove season, clay shooting and sometimes even crow hunting. I shot a 1187 for waterfowl around 10yrs with no real problems then retired it for a browning a5 that I have used for several years now but its getting retired after this season. Got a few contenders for my new gun. Cheaper options-CZ1012,stoeger 3m3000,rock island, Tristar. More expensive-Beretta a300 ultima, browning silver, franchi affinity3,weatherby element. Most expensive- Benelli sbe3, Beretta a400,retay masai mara,Browning maxusii wicked wing. So far I'm leaning towards franchi affinity3,weatherby element,browning silver, beretta a300 ultima or retay masai mara. Any info on any of these would be helpful. Sorry for the paragraph 😅
Great Video!!! I would like to see you include in a subsequent video the results of the Benelli Cordoba B.E.S.T, Montefeltro and M2. These test should be repeated with comparable stock chokes for the individual guns to make the comparison fair. The patterns may be closer to ideal than an aftermarket choke.
Great video, yeah test over n under shotguns like my Berettas and with the manufacturer’s chokes in them. Thanks for doing these comparisons man.
I have the sx4 and tried an aftermarket waterfowl choke tube and found out the stock full patterned better . The aftermarket also shot high . Thanks for the review ! Was thinking about an SBE3 but think ill go with the beretta instead.
The SBE3 has a shim kit you can adjust to bring your pattern to point of aim. In terms of patterns just try different ammo,
Can you do another pattern video but using different brands of duck loads through the different guns? Love the content, glad you’re back!!!
Would like to see a Retay in the mix on some of the test you put them in!
Next I would like to have you take your top 3 patterning guns and test them with the factory choke tube vs. the Carlson’s. Would love to see if the aftermarket choke tube is truly an upgrade.
Did you contact this number
@@justinhuddleston2303 I did not because it seems fishy. I wish Steve would let us know if it is really him or a scam.
@@justinhuddleston2303 let me know if you are brave enough and what happens.
I love my massberg 835 pump mainly because the safety is on the stock of the gun right above your thumb. Only thing that is holding me back from the 940 is it being gas. I personally like the inertia guns more due to hunting in cold weather and watching many of my friends has guns freeze and not cycle.
I just purchased my first semi auto waterfowl firearm, when I walked in I asked to try out the benelli super Vinci, and when I shouldered it, everything about it felt right, next will be patterning with the chokes I’ve ordered
Steve after going through your data I’d like see three things 1. Use better Ammo cheap ammo in don’t dependable, if I go hunting I want to shot bird clean as possible 2. Use the same length of barrels looked you had a big mixture of lengths 3. Use the factory chokes compare all mod, full or improved just all the same. A shotgun that costs $1,700 to $ 2,000 should come with good chokes so you don’t have to spend several hundred $$ for chokes. JMO
BUT IT WAS A GREAT REVIEW
YOU PUT ALOT OF TIME AND EFFORT INTO PRESETTING A FAIR TEST
THANKS
Thanks for making this video. Pattern and POI are major considerations when I shop for a shotgun. Love to see this included in all your reviews. Awesome stuff as always!!
Good video but I'd say do it with the OEM mod chokes. I have Hella fancy chokes and honestly I've found the oem mod patterned the best in my super vinci.
Shim kits, bud. Understanding how they work and how to install em. Most models come with them in the package. That'll fix alot of people's problems with their guns shooting high, left, or anywhere else that's undesirable. Maybe make a video on that.
I have patterned thousands of load / choke / gun combinations. Many times I have taken the choke out of one gun and pop it in another (same brand, make and load) and get a completely different pattern. I had one particular Benelli SBE1 24" that would put 98% of Federal premium BBB in a 30" circle at 40 yds. I have not been able to get any other combination even close but it would not pattern smaller shot well. Point is Waterfowlers need to pattern their guns with multiple chokes (starting with the factory tubes) and multiple loads to find what works for them. Trulock and Briley Chokes seem to work best for me and I shoot everything from cheap Escorts to Benelli and even have a Savage Renegauge which you left out of your video.
Most shotguns, especially Benelli, shoot high left for me and for many right hand shooters. The shim kit has helped me with this with this brand.
yup
Kinda expected beretta to be top three for making barrels for 500 year. Beretta best there is. Love my a400 extreme plus
Thanks for all you do! Thanks for saving me the time and Money. I am a Big Franchi - Benelli fan. My Franchi shoots just like yours did in the video, (High and a little to the left.) I miss a lot of ducks. I might have to re-think my shotgun choice, or practice more. Thanks again.
Did you try the c or D shim?
Great video. Can you plz repeat this test with one variable: barrel length. Can you still achieve good patterning with shorter barrels ( 22, 24, 26 inch)
It was the video where you reviewed all of them when it was freezing outside testing between inertia and gas semi automatics and I was disappointed when I saw that stoeger get messed up because it’s what I have lol! Great video!
I have both the maxus and A5. I have found my best patterns come from either the factory choke or pattern master code black. Very consistent and no holes in either out to 35-40 yards. I also use boss bismuth shotshells
Same I mainly use a maxus 2 and the stock chokes do really good on paper o shoot browning wicked blend
@@masonbyers2305 I have not tried that yet looks like good stuff. I haven’t found many shells that don’t pattern really well through those guns
I’m getting great results from my Maxus with the code black duck and goose chokes as well with Boss 2 3/4” #4 loads
@@noahbouchard5155 same here I’ve shot regular browning Kent and Winchester ammo and it cycles and patterns it very well
Yup I find the aftermarket chokes don’t always do it the factory tube is all I ever use. Funny how it seems like they know what works with the shotgun they designed 😅
I use a Remington 870 wingmaster with a full choked 28 inch barrel can we get a pump shotgun test
I've had my Weatherby Element for a bit over a year now, hunted ND, KS, MO with it, it has taken down pheasants, doves, geese, quail, you name it, if it flies, it dies. Reliable, hasn't failed me, even in single digis. I got it for $400 NIB and the customer service is awesome! My only complaint is the charging handle....in cold temps, its like your grabbing the business end of a Ka-Bar and after an exhaustive search (Weatherby doesn't make an extended/comp charging handle for the Element) I found a company called Grumpy Duck that makes a nice charging handle with a bird band...its been a conversation starter on every hunt I go on.
i love grumpy duck co my stoeger m3000 charging handle fell out and i also love the duck band version
So I’ve done this same process with mine that’s actually in this list and didn’t do good…however bought boxes of multiple different brands, shot, size, loads and material in them…also bought multiple different chokes for it and at the end of the day I was able to find out what my gun shot the best with and what it shot the worst with what choke it liked at different ranges and now I have only 2 kinds of Ammo and two chokes…well worth $600 off Ammo and chokes to have confidence in my shot placement and pattern
I patterned my original maxus one day and at 30 yards I had 91% in a 30" circle and 83% at 40 yards with a Carlson creamator for a choke. It did that with a 3.5 Winchester xperts #2
I have a Weatherby Element and can honestly say it preforms better then my "once owned" Benelli M2. At half the price of the Benelli the Turkish Element kicked it's rear.
Another excellent video. This the type of content I love to see - very practical and helpful in making purchasing decisions. The only improvement I would suggest is to increase your shot count. I know it's a lot more work but this is important when comparing figures from different guns. The results from one shot could be an anomaly. You would need at least three shots from each gun to confirm that the results are real.
You are 100% correct on getting an average. For making a watchable video sake that seemed like it would get really complicated.
It would be good to see an average,but in the field, you only get one chance. So this is a realistic test.Well done!
I love my Franchi 3 I bought it 7 years ago never failed well known as the sharpest long range shooter between my fellow using carlsons long range choke tube , still trying to upgrade but simply I can’t .
You are right. Always pattern you shot gun. Some guns don't like certain ammo and choke tubes. Some like any. Use what works best in your gun. If you can afford and or find any available.
The amount of work that went into this is impressive….. you should pattern 12 vrs 16 vrs 20 vrs 28 vrs 410. See how many pellets you loose per caliber down range
I like it!
Patterned my element with the factory long range steel choke it came with. Federal speed shok 3” #4 shot. At 40 yards the pattern was extremely impressive. Wish I could add pictures to these comments.
I’d like to see a in depth video and review of the retay masa mari and the gordion
I think you should do a video about how to pattern. And maybe demo strate why. Like shoot the same gun/choke/ammo multiple time and count pellets. Then change one variable and repeat to show the need for sample size etc.
Wished you would have done a Patterning on a Reminton Versa Max Pro Bore. enjoyed it
Freezing Shotgun Test | Gas VS. Inertia. Thats where it broke 😄
You got it!👏
You beat me to it and I really like my m3500 and that charging handle is cheap and easy to replace, plus its a fair priced gun
I’m with you on Benelli.. I thought I was buying the best when I bought my SBE2 and I hated that thing until I sold it and still hate it. Now I bought the little brother Affinity and can really whack the birds with it. Just a better fit and it still hits high but I’m used to it
Not sure if anyone has brought it up, but for the Benelli…. Benelli says “to float the bird” meaning to aim under the bird. Just a thought.
Great video, which really helped me make the choice for my next shotgun. You have me hooked on watching your comparison videos.
I love your reviews I can only afford a Weatherby. I’ve loved Weatherby for 30 years have the Orion 12 gauge of shot for years. My sons got a 20 gauge Weatherby element. He loves it did have problem with ammo, but we finally figured it out it needed more than 1300 ft./s high brass high velocity it worked amazing for less than 700 bucks. Have you ever done a test on the Weatherby 1800 I which is Weatherby is high end guns they run from $13-$1800.
Because center of pattern point can vary depending on many factors like different chokes and ammunition being the most likely to have to/ want to change. I use a Burris Speed Bead with a red dot to be able to adjust the point of aim. It also helps if you are having problems mounting the shotgun incorrectly.
Love my stoeger 3500, no issues with it at all. Then mossberg 835. The battle tank of shotguns. Lastly mossberg 9200 only 3" but an incredible gun for the price
The Benelli SBE was very disappointing because the SBE 1 had fantastic patterns.
Have you ever had a forcing cone of a barrel lengthened? I read that it prevents pellets from deforming and reduces recoil. Would be cool to see that. Another idea is 26 inch barrels vs 28 and 30
I would love to see @Target Focused Life do a video or talk about barrel length vs pattern. I am tired of hearing the argument that "the longer the barrel, the better the pattern" Would love to see a test done with the same model of gun (if possible), same choke, ammunition etc. 24 vs 26 vs 28 vs 30 inch
Most guys have just one particular gun they beat the hell out of duck hunting. Choose your ammo and vary chokes on pattern targets until you get what you are looking for. If point of impact is off you need to look at gun fit and/or a poor cheek weld. Of course if you have access to more brands of ammo….try them as they could show a slight difference in pattern.
Just curious - the Benelli guns, as well as others come with shim kits to adjust drop and cast. This will make a significant difference in point of impact. I have several Benellis (but not an SBE-III) and changed the shims from the way they came from the factory and got them all "dialed in" so they shoot where I expect. Was there any attempt to do this before testing.
Likely not. Additionally you pattern a shotgun properly by shooting different loads through it. Small sample sizes with the cheapest waterfowl ammo and with non factory chokes makes this objectively worthless.
I have found that aftermarket choke tubes are not always the best when pattern testing. Maybe that's just me. But that's why when I pattern test a shot gun and it does well with factory tubes, I don't change it.
I’ve shot a weatherby element for a year now and it’s hard to beat for price. Never had a malfunction in field with almost 10k rounds through it
Great review. Like you said, every gun and load will perform differently so always pattern your own guns with the ammo you plan to use. I have also been impressed with the Weatherby Element.
I have the 20 ga it doesn't pattern good at all even with hevi metals and hammers crazy 😜 and my franchi shoots em so tight I cut em in half
I had an Element for a year. It was a total lemon of a gun. Could not get it to pattern worth a darn, I'm talking awful patterns. Sold it and couldn't be happier to move on.
I have a 20 ga and a 12 ga Element and both have been 100% reliable with the loads I have tried. They also both pattern well, again with the loads I have tried. Every gun is unique in the way it performs, that's why we test them. Of course any shooting we get to do is fun!
Just bought a super black eagle 3 and took it straight to the blind without testing and I couldn’t hit anything. Shooting high is probably why hahah. Good to know so I can adjust. Also should probably go shoot some clays before I go out again
Use the d shim and it will pull down the shot. I went back and forth with benelli and finally got it good to go. Kicks full choke is a deadly combination.
Wads make such a difference. Good test. In factory you get what you get but I can tighten them all with a reload and testing different wads.
Good video and review of patterns with the carlsons but would like to see it with stock modified chokes that come with the gun, understand that carlsons might be a sponsor but stock tubes are a true test of what your actually getting what you pay for
Could you do a pattern video on Remington v3
I do pattern test every 2nd year with the same shotgun I've used for hunting for around 25 years with different chokes. As with riffles some guns don´t like certain ammo and in my experience, cheap ammo is in general not good ammo. Maybe good for the wallet when you take it out of the store shelve, but in the end you will pay more due to lack of performance. I shoot minimum 5 shoots with each choke with the same ammo. As I've done this with the same gun for around 25 years, I think I've got a decent test result from many different manufacturer and surprisingly (or not) the result can even vary with the same brand two years later which can be in relations to changes made in the manufacturing process or other adjustment made by the producer. I've also done this for other shotgun I own and they show similar pattern, that is different gun can behave differently to different kind of ammo. If I compare the result with the price of each shoot to try to determine which brand give me the best result (best for the buck), then in general the result is has been almost the same all the time. That ammo which is little above the medium price range gives me the best result for the bucks. In most cases I eventually end up choosing what gives me the best result, not what it cost as the best result means less wounded birds and in my eyes that is the key for hunting.