Just a little note to add to this video. In the video, I say that it wasn't monetised. This was correct at the time of publication, but since then, UA-cam has re-enabled monetisation. The point I was trying to make in this video is that I do videos for educational purposes, not for money. If you want me to donate any revenue from this video to charity or some worthwhile cause. I'll happily do it.
From what I can tell is as long as you are not doing arbitrage betting and you don't win to much to fast Sportsbooks will keep you around. Also seems to be a good idea to spread your money across as many books as you can
I guess it depends what you are trying to do, but on racing I find value everywhere. The markets are much more volatile than they used to be and I get the impression that a lot of that money has no idea what value is.
i think asian bookmaker works the same, they don't care how much you bet, they take their 5% commission and are happy about it. Only european and american bookmaker want you to lose as much money as possible.
That’s true. I am a PC customer. But most people are not. It’s specifically targeted at frequent longer term winners. So I sit in that category, but it’s a very small % of exchange users that end up there.
Excellent Peter, fascinating stuff. Off topic Peter but can I ask if you have any plans to include "matchstick" price indicators on BA Trader as you have on the Pro version, please say yes.🙂
Thanks Peter - of course the real questions are what % edge do you have (some where between x and y percent would do!) and any clues regarding your winning system ? which sport at least or can you tell us if its model based ?
Anything above zero will do me, to be honest, within the realms of sensible variability and drawdowns. I value bet by pricing markets, but also trade. I've done many videos on each if you drift through the channel. Probably too many, to be honest; I need to reorganise them into some sort of order really so people can view them as they were mean to be seen.
The numbers are much smaller that you would expect and most people will not pay PC. But, of course, people like me do. But that works for me as I couldn’t bet millions a week with a bookmaker.
@@betangeltv Most users of Betfair obviously won't, pay PC because the majority of users are losers thats fact. I think annually only about 2% make a profit using Betfair, and from that 2% only a fraction of that pay PC.... But for those that do, depending on how you operate its still a restriction. put on. your winnings..
I know the exact numbers, but I was shown them under NDA, so I can't share them. But it's way, way, above 2% This is because, at worst, you will lose much slower on an exchange than with a bookmaker.
When a bookmaker openly refuses to pay out at their discretion THEY EFFECTIVELY BECOME A CASINO. If the average punter ever realizes that then exchanges will finally have their day! That is, if there are any sporting events left to bet on... That's why the bookies can't save face with the "we provide entertainment" spiel - their entire marketing budgets go towards flaunting their juicy looking odds one way or the other. Don't let them get away with it!
There are restrictions tho: the amount you can bet on exchanges depends on the money that is available, whereas with regular bookmakers, there is always liquidity. But betting with regular bookies is a no-go for serious punters. You will likely be banned (or at least severely limited) the moment they find out you actually understand shit (value). Are you making use of betdaq for placing bets? What do you think of betdaq?
It's virtually impossible to get any money on with a bookie and if you do, you will be limited quickly. Betdaq is good, not as big as Betfair, but growing.
Is there any way to bet on online casinos with the betting exchange format? Or does it only exist for sports betting? Is there a betting exchange for online casinos?
That sort of doesn't make any sense. Exchanges are peer to peer betting platforms. On the Casino, only the house wins. So lots of betting companies will try and get you to bet with them.
I just don't understand why someone having a decent bet would use a Bookmaker when their odds are just rubbish. Is it the BOG or the Extra Place market? I have no idea
I've always felt that people complain when they find a loophole that gets closed. If you have a legit betting strategy with an edge, you would just put it on an exchange and go for it. It's that simple.
When we ask Betfair, they always say there isn't a definitive list. If you can let me know where you are I can let you know if we are aware of the situation in your country.
@@betangeltv Are you aware about southeast asian countries (phillipines, cambodia,Thailand, malaysia,Indonesia)? I like to spend Winters there.I'm living in Belgium also,i'm restricted here.Which countries around me where Betfair is legal(North & East Europe)?
I travel a lot and as long as you have an account, you can use proxies or a VPS to access it. In Europe, Scandinavia, Ireland and UK are OK from a betfair.com account. So as long as you can get one, you will be good. I think Thailand is OK as well. I'll make a note and ask Betfair for you. Always the hurdle is getting the account opened and verified, but once in you will good. So it's that first location that you need to think about.
I hear you, affordability can be a huge barrier for many. But it's not as bad as it could be. My daughter started trading with a tiny bank and is subject to a monthly spend and is doing fine. It's just a case or recycling the money you put through your account. Even if you have £100, trading it through 1000 races effectively leverages it to a traded amount of £100,000
Hey Peter, love your work. I'm going to do a little bit of research about Betfair to see if I can buy shares to get some of the commission back. How about you? Do you sell shares in Betangel?
No it's a private company, but they wouldn't be worth much TBH. The software business isn't as big as you make think. It's a niche, within a niche, within a niche business. You can buy Betfair shares, though they are diluted somewhat now as part of Flutter PLC.
I always had a vision of them being the wholesalers of bets. With the bookies just 'skinning' the odds and adding value that way. That should be the way it panned out.
Thanks Peter very interesting stuff,Betfair should give you a commission for all your hard work dedication and loyalty to them over the years always telling people exchanges are better than bookmakers , keep them coming Peter 👌👍👍👍👍
I agree, they owe me a Buggati Veyron for all the business I've driven to them!! I actually consciously choose not to get affiliate fees as I think that compromises you if you get paid to say something. Several other UA-cam channels are paid directly or indirectly to push certain viewpoints and it shows!
I bet in football, I have been banned and limited from all the bookies, more than 15 bookies, then I've been trying to apply my strategy on exchanges but I find it very difficult due to the lack of liquidity and it's not common to get the best odds, usually odds are way lower than on the bookies I have been banned...
If the odds are way lower on the exchange, then you would be able to make massive amounts of money arbing between the two. I almost never see odds higher on the bookies.
If you think about it. I know the market is inefficient, so my profit comes from that inefficiency. But when people measure the market, they measure my activity in it and everything else, so it's bound to appear efficient because I and others are making it efficient. That fact aside, you can create opportunity on an exchange. You can be on the other side of the book. You can do what you like on an exchange.
so if i dont win too oftten but i win big sums will they ban me? lets say if i put in 50k and i win 15k (x 1.3 odds) will they not ban me just because i only once or twice? the longer you play the more chance of getting banned vs winning huge amounts but playing fewer times?
Prices are more volatile on the exchange, so you can pick off decent prices. But also, you can offer prices to the exchange and wait for them to get matched.
Betting exchanges are the only place profitable long-term betting won't get you restricted or banned. With traditional sportsbooks and bookmakers, it's just a business where you won't be allowed to play if you bend the rules. If you suddenly started winning at a Casino you would be banned, no different with sportsbooks.
@@betangeltv That's depends on how much you are trying to win. And how smart you're I've been making my living betting on UK greyhounds for the last 7 years. Never been stopped. But here's the thing. I NEVER place more than £10 on any TRAP. But lay that £10 at 5 different bookies. My system MATRIX 6 doesn't require me to lay the bet last minute. I can lay a bet 10am in the morning for a race 6.09pm in the evening for example. Walk out of the bookies and they won't see me for another month. Or I might have a friend go and pick up the winnings if I win there. If you are greedy and dont have any sense and try to make £50 plus bets day in and day out at a few local bookies. And keep winning. Of course you will be stopped. I rotate around 200 plus bookies all over London. I go into WH Charing Cross. I don't go back there for another month. And that was for a £10 bet. By the time I go back there they've forgotten me. If I went in there and won £500 plus pounds say 3 times a week it would be another story it's always GREED that messes people up. Use your head and you will be just fine. Don't make a big noise and draw attention to yourself. By rotating you will be winning in Say WH. Losing in Labrokes or Paddy Power. And then next time you are losing in WH and winning in Betfred or Ladbrokes. You are just another punter to them. They don't realize that as a collective you are taking thousands off them. Be SMART..
Good video, thanks, I think the sensationalising of everything, is true, I dont watch the news either, that said it creates a mentality among the masses to perhaps over bet certain events and in doing so create opportunity within betting, so, could be doing us a favour too
It doesn't make sense as while you can quantify edges, they all come with different payoffs, variability etc. So I just don't look at it like that at all. I'm more interested in how I perform, but also if something is coming under pressure or needs tweaking etc.
Slight error, I said I bet a million last week, not made a million last week. A million in one week would be nice. I mean, it is possible, but you would have losses against that as well. So made a million net, as lots of people could make a million, but lose more than that at the same time!
Betting exchanges have presented a generational opportunity for anybody that wants to bet. I jumped at the chance 20 years ago and took full advantage. But increasingly, you see exchanges sidelined, given little airspace and the familiar characters trying to position themselves as experts to profit from people who want to get involved. I want to see exchanges still around in 20 years time and the only way to do that is to talk positively about them and show people what is possible. So I feel compelled to do my bit.
@@betangeltv Brilliantly put. Sadly many new punters are unaware of distrustful of exchanges due to them being sidelined like you said or being exposed to ignorant or misleading representations.
Too long didn’t watch version: some boomer blathers on for quarter of an hour about nothing. I the last 2 mins says you don’t get banned from exchanges.
Just a little note to add to this video. In the video, I say that it wasn't monetised. This was correct at the time of publication, but since then, UA-cam has re-enabled monetisation. The point I was trying to make in this video is that I do videos for educational purposes, not for money. If you want me to donate any revenue from this video to charity or some worthwhile cause. I'll happily do it.
What do you think about pinnacle? Is it trustworthy??
Generally highly regarded, but I'm unable to use it.
@@betangeltvis there any way to bet on online casinos with the betting exchange format? Or does it only exist for sports betting?
this is up there with you best videos, which in my mind are the football series you did last year, the expectancy video and psychology of the market
Many thanks, that's much appreciated.
Awesome. Thank-you for sharing this. My main concern has been longevity in sports betting. 🙂
With exchanges, it’s effectively unlimited wins and you could go on forever. In theory.
From what I can tell is as long as you are not doing arbitrage betting and you don't win to much to fast Sportsbooks will keep you around. Also seems to be a good idea to spread your money across as many books as you can
Great video again Peter. I hope this video racks up the views it deserves!
I hope also, but I've no doubt some click bait will bury it.
That info on a betting exchange is nice. I want to start an exchange. That's how it should be. No reason to limit on an exchange
The problem is by the time the market forms and there is any liquidity the price has gone and so has the value
I guess it depends what you are trying to do, but on racing I find value everywhere.
The markets are much more volatile than they used to be and I get the impression that a lot of that money has no idea what value is.
i think asian bookmaker works the same, they don't care how much you bet, they take their 5% commission and are happy about it. Only european and american bookmaker want you to lose as much money as possible.
Good video, very well explained,thanku👍
Great video. Subscribed!
Welcome!
I guess the Tote online shows their overround as well. Very clear video. But assume you are a premium charge customer on BF?
That’s true.
I am a PC customer. But most people are not. It’s specifically targeted at frequent longer term winners. So I sit in that category, but it’s a very small % of exchange users that end up there.
Excellent Peter, fascinating stuff. Off topic Peter but can I ask if you have any plans to include "matchstick" price indicators on BA Trader as you have on the Pro version, please say yes.🙂
We constantly review all features, so I wouldn't say no.
Brilliant video again Peter, thanks for sharing
Thank you
Thanks Peter - of course the real questions are what % edge do you have (some where between x and y percent would do!) and any clues regarding your winning system ? which sport at least or can you tell us if its model based ?
Anything above zero will do me, to be honest, within the realms of sensible variability and drawdowns.
I value bet by pricing markets, but also trade.
I've done many videos on each if you drift through the channel.
Probably too many, to be honest; I need to reorganise them into some sort of order really so people can view them as they were mean to be seen.
You won't get restricted for winning on the exchange, you'll just get hit with the exchange premium charge...
*Some people get hit by the premium charge
Premium charge is just a restriction put on those who prove to be consistent winners..
The numbers are much smaller that you would expect and most people will not pay PC.
But, of course, people like me do. But that works for me as I couldn’t bet millions a week with a bookmaker.
@@betangeltv Most users of Betfair obviously won't, pay PC because the majority of users are losers thats fact.
I think annually only about 2% make a profit using Betfair, and from that 2% only a fraction of that pay PC....
But for those that do, depending on how you operate its still a restriction. put on. your winnings..
I know the exact numbers, but I was shown them under NDA, so I can't share them.
But it's way, way, above 2%
This is because, at worst, you will lose much slower on an exchange than with a bookmaker.
I can't believe the answer is that simple, I have been so stressed because I got restricted today
you find a solution ?? do not be banned
You don't get banned on exchanges.
When a bookmaker openly refuses to pay out at their discretion THEY EFFECTIVELY BECOME A CASINO. If the average punter ever realizes that then exchanges will finally have their day! That is, if there are any sporting events left to bet on... That's why the bookies can't save face with the "we provide entertainment" spiel - their entire marketing budgets go towards flaunting their juicy looking odds one way or the other. Don't let them get away with it!
Very informative video...thank you
Thanks
There are restrictions tho: the amount you can bet on exchanges depends on the money that is available, whereas with regular bookmakers, there is always liquidity.
But betting with regular bookies is a no-go for serious punters. You will likely be banned (or at least severely limited) the moment they find out you actually understand shit (value).
Are you making use of betdaq for placing bets? What do you think of betdaq?
It's virtually impossible to get any money on with a bookie and if you do, you will be limited quickly.
Betdaq is good, not as big as Betfair, but growing.
Is there any way to bet on online casinos with the betting exchange format? Or does it only exist for sports betting? Is there a betting exchange for online casinos?
That sort of doesn't make any sense. Exchanges are peer to peer betting platforms. On the Casino, only the house wins. So lots of betting companies will try and get you to bet with them.
@@betangeltv so you can’t win in online casinos without getting banned? The betting exchange model doesn’t apply to online casinos?
No, it doesn't apply. It doesn't make any sense.
Bookmakers want you to win , tf u smokin , i lasted 8 weeks before i got banned ( For Winning 😂😂😂😂😂
Mine was 1 week
Aye bro do they pay out fr? Like automatically?
Oh wow… but how much were you winning before the ban? Is there a threshold?
He clearly said the books want you to win but not consistently have an edge over them
I just don't understand why someone having a decent bet would use a Bookmaker when their odds are just rubbish. Is it the BOG or the Extra Place market? I have no idea
I've always felt that people complain when they find a loophole that gets closed.
If you have a legit betting strategy with an edge, you would just put it on an exchange and go for it. It's that simple.
Do you Know where i Can find the countries list updated to use betfair exchange, please ? Thank you.
When we ask Betfair, they always say there isn't a definitive list.
If you can let me know where you are I can let you know if we are aware of the situation in your country.
@@betangeltv Are you aware about southeast asian countries (phillipines, cambodia,Thailand, malaysia,Indonesia)? I like to spend Winters there.I'm living in Belgium also,i'm restricted here.Which countries around me where Betfair is legal(North & East Europe)?
I travel a lot and as long as you have an account, you can use proxies or a VPS to access it.
In Europe, Scandinavia, Ireland and UK are OK from a betfair.com account. So as long as you can get one, you will be good.
I think Thailand is OK as well. I'll make a note and ask Betfair for you.
Always the hurdle is getting the account opened and verified, but once in you will good. So it's that first location that you need to think about.
😮 what of Nigeria
So what about affordability checks that are in place on the exchanges. It's impossible for people on low incomes to have any kind of decent bet now.
I hear you, affordability can be a huge barrier for many. But it's not as bad as it could be. My daughter started trading with a tiny bank and is subject to a monthly spend and is doing fine.
It's just a case or recycling the money you put through your account. Even if you have £100, trading it through 1000 races effectively leverages it to a traded amount of £100,000
as a summary we must do arbitrage in betfair ex and we will not be banned ?
Betfair will not ban you for winning, neither will the Tote.
@@betangeltv imagine i do arbitrage between betfair ex and @xbet for exemple , and the odd wins is the one on 1xbet so i can be banned ?
I have been a card counter, trouble ive had from casinos is legendary - Insults, rapping on the table with a clip board, faster and slower. Unreal
A tell tale sign you have been nabbed is when the floor manager pays the table a visit.
Hey Peter, love your work. I'm going to do a little bit of research about Betfair to see if I can buy shares to get some of the commission back. How about you? Do you sell shares in Betangel?
No it's a private company, but they wouldn't be worth much TBH. The software business isn't as big as you make think. It's a niche, within a niche, within a niche business.
You can buy Betfair shares, though they are diluted somewhat now as part of Flutter PLC.
Betting exchanges should be the only legal betting companies allowed to operate.
I always had a vision of them being the wholesalers of bets. With the bookies just 'skinning' the odds and adding value that way. That should be the way it panned out.
Great video!
Many thanks
Thanks Peter very interesting stuff,Betfair should give you a commission for all your hard work dedication and loyalty to them over the years always telling people exchanges are better than bookmakers , keep them coming Peter 👌👍👍👍👍
I agree, they owe me a Buggati Veyron for all the business I've driven to them!!
I actually consciously choose not to get affiliate fees as I think that compromises you if you get paid to say something.
Several other UA-cam channels are paid directly or indirectly to push certain viewpoints and it shows!
I bet in football, I have been banned and limited from all the bookies, more than 15 bookies, then I've been trying to apply my strategy on exchanges but I find it very difficult due to the lack of liquidity and it's not common to get the best odds, usually odds are way lower than on the bookies I have been banned...
If the odds are way lower on the exchange, then you would be able to make massive amounts of money arbing between the two. I almost never see odds higher on the bookies.
@@betangeltv do you mean bet against or “lay bet” in the exchange and back betting in the bookie? Or make two back bets in both? I got confused
Y, lay on the exchange and back with the bookie. If you can lay at a lower price, you will make money.
so, what is your solution?
Curious how much dough you made after all the bans? Want to be realistic with my own expectations/planning.
Have can you find an edge betting on the exchange if the markets are considered to be efficient?
If you think about it. I know the market is inefficient, so my profit comes from that inefficiency.
But when people measure the market, they measure my activity in it and everything else, so it's bound to appear efficient because I and others are making it efficient.
That fact aside, you can create opportunity on an exchange. You can be on the other side of the book.
You can do what you like on an exchange.
Do you think Edward Thorpe is using the Exchange?
Mr Thorpe went into financial markets where the potential market was much bigger.
Have a read of his book 'A man for all markets'
so if i dont win too oftten but i win big sums will they ban me? lets say if i put in 50k and i win 15k (x 1.3 odds) will they not ban me just because i only once or twice? the longer you play the more chance of getting banned vs winning huge amounts but playing fewer times?
50K? £? In single bet?
If you bet directly on the exchange then how do you find value
Prices are more volatile on the exchange, so you can pick off decent prices. But also, you can offer prices to the exchange and wait for them to get matched.
what do u think about arbitrage between exchanges it is possible?
Difficult, but not impossible.
What are the best bookmakers that I can use in France and not get banned?? Thank you
You have a state monopoly in France, so there isn't much you can do.
Hi. Why should/do traders get banned, restricted etc for winning? Isn't that or should that be against the law?
Betting exchanges are the only place profitable long-term betting won't get you restricted or banned.
With traditional sportsbooks and bookmakers, it's just a business where you won't be allowed to play if you bend the rules.
If you suddenly started winning at a Casino you would be banned, no different with sportsbooks.
@@betangeltv
That's depends on how much you are trying to win. And how smart you're
I've been making my living betting on UK greyhounds for the last 7 years. Never been stopped. But here's the thing. I NEVER place more than £10 on any TRAP. But lay that £10 at 5 different bookies.
My system MATRIX 6 doesn't require me to lay the bet last minute. I can lay a bet 10am in the morning for a race 6.09pm in the evening for example. Walk out of the bookies and they won't see me for another month. Or I might have a friend go and pick up the winnings if I win there.
If you are greedy and dont have any sense and try to make £50 plus bets day in and day out at a few local bookies. And keep winning. Of course you will be stopped.
I rotate around 200 plus bookies all over London. I go into WH Charing Cross. I don't go back there for another month. And that was for a £10 bet.
By the time I go back there they've forgotten me. If I went in there and won £500 plus pounds say 3 times a week it would be another story it's always GREED that messes people up. Use your head and you will be just fine. Don't make a big noise and draw attention to yourself. By rotating you will be winning in Say WH. Losing in Labrokes or Paddy Power. And then next time you are losing in WH and winning in Betfred or Ladbrokes. You are just another punter to them. They don't realize that as a collective you are taking thousands off them.
Be SMART..
Thanks!
Your'e welcome
what about people who live in a county without betting exchanges
You need to campaign for their legalisation or find an exchange that operates in the grey market.
Reminds me of a song from The Jam. The cost of "That's Entertainment, that's Entertainment"
Feeding ducks in the park and picking budget holidays....
Most people will never get to that point, where their being banned😂😂😂
so what were the secrets?
I do explain in the video. Use a betting exchange.
do betfair accept cash out option if i do it too often? my strategy is about cash out before match ends
On the Betfair Exchange you shouldn't have a problem.
alright, thanks for the quick answer mate!@@betangeltv
Can I get access to betfair from the US?
No, you need a Betfair.com account and registrations are blocked for US due to your legislation.
There is a difference between 1 million in turnover and 1 million in profit
Not sure what you are trying to say here as both have been done.
No, but you will get money from me subscribing to your software... Right?
whats difference between betting exchange and bookie
On an exhange you bet against other people.
Good video, thanks, I think the sensationalising of everything, is true, I dont watch the news either, that said it creates a mentality among the masses to perhaps over bet certain events and in doing so create opportunity within betting, so, could be doing us a favour too
I think it does create opportunties. People are a bit lazy and follow a narrative, whether it makes sense or not.
Peter, could someone get banned rom Betfair? Thanks
Not for winning no. There are always exceptions, so if you systematically abuse a loophole for example, that's always going to be frowned on.
can you abuse cash out strategy@@betangeltv
What % is your biggest edge?
It doesn't make sense as while you can quantify edges, they all come with different payoffs, variability etc. So I just don't look at it like that at all.
I'm more interested in how I perform, but also if something is coming under pressure or needs tweaking etc.
exchange also see all edgers and bots ,so they can copy edgers and ban enyone they like
I don't think you understand what a betting exchange is or how they work.
Exactly this!
allow me to sum up the summary.. Sportsbooks want keep punters stupid, & keep you un-educated about Exchanges.
Exactly!
You can say what ever my friend but if you really made a million just last week will in this case we need to see some evidence 😉 👀
Slight error, I said I bet a million last week, not made a million last week. A million in one week would be nice.
I mean, it is possible, but you would have losses against that as well. So made a million net, as lots of people could make a million, but lose more than that at the same time!
I'd be interested in your real motivation for making all these videos as you clearly don't need the money anymore?
Betting exchanges have presented a generational opportunity for anybody that wants to bet. I jumped at the chance 20 years ago and took full advantage.
But increasingly, you see exchanges sidelined, given little airspace and the familiar characters trying to position themselves as experts to profit from people who want to get involved.
I want to see exchanges still around in 20 years time and the only way to do that is to talk positively about them and show people what is possible.
So I feel compelled to do my bit.
@@betangeltv Brilliantly put. Sadly many new punters are unaware of distrustful of exchanges due to them being sidelined like you said or being exposed to ignorant or misleading representations.
Y, it's a real shame. So much money is lost because the average Joe is betting at rubbish prices.
Too long didn’t watch version: some boomer blathers on for quarter of an hour about nothing. I the last 2 mins says you don’t get banned from exchanges.