Check out our blog post on Cross-Platform Native App Development - Life Before and After Flutter: www.crema.us/blog/cross-platform-native-app-development-life-before-and-after-flutter
Oh man, where to start...? So many core code and implementation probs in flutter and Dart. We gave circled back around like 4 time now. We really want to like it... we really want to use it. Also, we keep hearing that Google is stepping back again and has constrained resources on it now. Is that true? One of the sources works closely with them. So, it makes me think it is true. Sure explains the increased probs. I guess if you are ready and able to code around the problems then sure, it could be really good for some UC’s.
"You'lll never have to learn another framework again. Angular.js will forever be backwards compatible" - Google 9 months later... "This is Anuglar 2 and it's nothing like Angular and we're killing Angular.js" - Also Google
Agreed - there's always a little bit of trepidation around a new offering from them. Excited to see the community continue to support the framework as a whole!
Yup. Now they are considering “setting it free”. Great timing Google- especially with all the new bugs they added. “Clutter” has become the new name fast gaining in popularity. GOOGLE- COME ON AND MAKE UP YOUR MIND. Fix the huge base of problems and the stupid choice of Dart, or spin it off and sell it. It has huge potential, but right now it is more of a cautionary tale than a viable solution for many.
Also Google: We'll make it the hardest to learn, the most cumbersome and least efficient web framework. Also have our boi Evan You beat us with a completely open-source project
I'm working on our first Flutter/Dart app, and while the initial learning curve was steep, it is making a lot of sense, and it is so fast. Hot reload is so useful, I cannot imagine going back to something that requires build/run/compile times... loving the UI and the smooth native flows.
We're all about the fast user feedback while developing! Definitely a lot to learn but the tooling is amazing once you get up and running. Best of luck and thanks for stopping by!
@@chriscorrigan14 PHP is like the predecessor for woke script kiddies nowadays (before they became "woke" to using javascript for everything... stupid idea, by the way)
Dart is so ugly to look at. Jsx is no the best, but is way more simple to understand what is going on.Wrap ten thousand function inside another function just to get some padding is ridiculous.
React Native said: I will replace the native app in the future, hug me quickly. Flutter said: I will replace native app soon, don't learn RN, just study me. Native: Well... Both of you are right, I'm just waiting the third guy who claims to replace me in a day.
Everyone is talking about FLUTTER vs REACT NATIVE and here I am studying JAVASCRIPT and now confused what to do because everyone is killing each other.
Here are the issues I have with Flutter so far: 1- Material everything. The “Flutter way” of doing things just assumes you’re using Material design and then maybe overriding for your app’s brand. I much prefer RN’s minimalist approach to theming, which adopts each OS’s design language and then allows you to override from there. 2- Dart is a post-apocalyptic wasteland. Have you tried searching for Dart packages for specific functions? There’s one solution, if any, for a given common problem. The Dart ecosystem is so tiny and seems to be moving at a snail’s pace compared to JavaScript. This leads me to my next point. 3 - Flutter is its own world. You can bridge Obj C and Java to Flutter/Dart and I’ve worked on projects where we have done so. But you’re still compiling a unique Flutter stack. For example if you want to have a brownfield app that mixes Flutter and existing native code you’re in for a bumpy ride. In fact I don’t think it’s possible. That worries me because I’m always dependent on the Flutter architecture for my app. With RN I can just go pure native and build on Android and iOS SDKs if I want. I think the main criticisms given to RN are performance for things like animation and library availability/ stability. Performance is already being addressed by Facebook, and the RN team is working on a JS-to-native messaging system that is much faster than the current bridge. As for library availability/stability, I’m constantly seeing updates to existing libraries and discovering new ones. An entire open source community has emerged around RN and we’re learning and developing a rich ecosystem around the library. I think Flutter is a contender. It’s just way too dependent on Google and Dart, and so the overall ecosystem is small and slow, which is worrisome atm. This may change and I’m rooting for Flutter. I think it’s an otherwise beautiful framework. UPDATE: It looks like the Flutter team have addressed the brownfield app issue recently, so I think if you want to incorporate Flutter into an existing app you have better options now.
Excellent points. Material overrides (or replacements) are going to be interesting to track going forward - do you think most people will want to roll their own styles most of the time? Like you, we've been thinking a lot about the difference between having the flexibility to go full native vs being siloed in a framework for 90% of the architecture. React Native's recent push for, "Lean Core" is a really, really interesting development from that perspective. Thanks for the great thoughts! We're excited to see how things look in another six months or so as the communities continue to grow and change.
Crema With how crowded the App and Play Stores are, and with the need to make our products engaging and to stand out, absolutely yes. The Hamilton Broadway musical app that has been one of the Flutter success stories presented by Google is one example of a completey branded experience. That's one of the marketing lines of Flutter (and I'm paraphrasing): No more cookie-cutter apps. The closeness to the metal allows fluid animations that are themselves often used to delivery a delightful UX and to differentiate an app's brand.
Same here, actually. We're excited to see where the road leads but aren't really into the turf wars that often result from these framework comparisons. Use the best tool for the job, eh?
It took me a week to finally start with React Native to start my mobile development career, everything was setup and then I came here, saw the video, read the comments and all of sudden, I believe its better to start learning Flutter now!
6 months ago, some of my colleagues were excited about flutter and now i dont hear anything about flutter from them. Run from the problem itself is smart
It will kill electron as well, as soon it comes to desktop, for one week I've had enough. Dart is pretty easy to learn especially if you used typescript before.
Very interesting talk! I really like that you build some apps at least and talk about real experience and feelings, the majority of comparison I see only reads the description of the web site of each framework. Very nice!
Flutter won't kill react-native-web because there are so many developers who prefer writing just JavaScript. Also, React is backed by Facebook so Flutter being backed by Google doesn't mean anything.
As of now I think React Native still rules, But in future, I guess flutter will win because Google will soon release fushia OS and flutter being a Google technology will move to it leaving react native behind.
"Google will soon release fushia OS"... Well Hi! Google will not be releasing Fuchsia for mobile in the short term. It will initially be rolled out to Chromebooks as a replacement for Chrome OS. You can most probably expect your phone to run Fuchsia in no less than 3 years (and another 2 for vendors to release phones running it). On the other hand, Fuchsia WILL support Android apps as first class citizens (just check the repo, ART has been commited a month or two ago, and Magenta interops with it just fine), therefore you can keep coding native apps, Ionic apps, Flutter apps, RN apps, etc, given that all compile to APK's ergo all will run. I invite you to read more about the topic. Cheers!
It will be super interesting to see what happens with the ecosystem as a whole - here's hoping that everyone continues to play nice together! Thanks for the thoughts.
I've been buildiing react native apps for two years and I just started flutter a couple weeks ago and while I think flutter is a better solution, it will not "kill" react native.
Sorry, but receive feedback about Mobile Development from web devs is not trustworthy. I worked react native about 8 months with a React JS team and I practically spent my time arguing with them (memory leaks everywhere) and at the end the project was a mess and the company lost the client. I think Flutter is the future but if not ruled by web devs.
@@Cremalab I'm currently learning reactjs(web), I hope to build mobile versions of my webapps. The easiest transition is reactNative, but I didn't see a RN demo app that would match the demo app for flutter shown here: ua-cam.com/video/kpcjBD1XDwU/v-deo.html
java script was ha hard to understand for beginners' language harder than c or c++. then all other languages I pretty easy to get it. so the principal factor I guess is workflow performance different metrics. have to have good productivity, have to be able to have good compatibility with any technology or development and creativity to extend new ideas of apps and able to perform it pretty fast nad low issues. for example, I want to put 3d web unity level o special effect in flutter is it possible? if not why not back to c++ an create a good framework. maybe unty additional app will eat them all.
Flutter will not kill react native, the JavaScript ecosystem will, adding/upgrading routing on react native should be a 5 min stuff not a 3 hour research
coming from native android develpment, i started learning react native and boy has it been one bumpy ride! flutter looks more promising, the plugins are a one up for me. i'm gonna start learning flutter.
Any update on the learning experience? I'm divided about which is one is good. Have dabbled a bit in RN and also felt it was a bit of a bumpy ride, also the documentation doesn't feel that great. Was flutter better in these aspects?
@@chrheca hi, I'm currently using flutter for a project I just embarked on, so far its been great. Once you learn the basics of dart and understand flutter is "all widgets" then you're good to go. Flutter's documentation(you should check it out) is simply awesome unlike RN's. My first RN app didn't have that native feel at all, one could tell it was hybrid easily, so many lines of code was required to get the android ripple effect but with flutter your apps get the native look and feel with little effort be it android or iOS. I suggest you go with flutter.
@@izzy-cs6fu I am a RN developer and I can confirm what you said. Flutter has a far better developer experience. From now on I will only use Flutter for my side projects.
@@JonesDTaylor As mainly a web developer I think the opposite, Flutter is more verbose and has too much nesting and you really need to know well the widgets and his relationship to do a decent project. I think RN brings a better user experience
JavaScript hands down. It has a much more broad application. But the jump to dart for flutter isn’t too far. But the internet runs in JavaScript so you probably start there.
Flutter and dart feel very natural for me. So glad it eliminated the xml need for android. I cringe if i had to go back to java/xml for android now. Flutter for web is very usable but still not there so I'm interested to see how long that takes
I would like to use flutter I am having a lot of issues with installing. I have watched many videos. Still no success I would still like to use it. Android studio is the problem I believe, I start a new application and it won’t allow me to hit the next but I can name the project then go on to the next page I can’t get any further than that. Can you point me in the right direction please. Thank you Chris C.
Hi Chris, The android studio installation documentation is actually pretty good if you make sure to follow all the steps (developer.android.com/studio/install). Apart from that, I would recommend a course from the London App Brewery (they worked with Google to develop the course) www.appbrewery.co/p/flutter-development-bootcamp-with-dart. - Scotty
Me, honestly, don't know if Flutter can kill React Native for this time and in the future, but based on my personal opinion, Flutter can be a hard competitor to React Native. Currently, I am learning Flutter and at the same time Dart as well. Just like Rails, you need to know at least Ruby's OOP, enum, inheritance and so on. I have developed a few web app using React and React Native, but to be honest, JavaScript is not my favorite anymore since there is a lot of framework and library of JavaScript and sometimes, I feel like I lost when thinking of JavaScript. Back to the track, Flutter is still young than React Native. Every programmer and web developer knows more React Native than Flutter. But who knows, if in this year, Flutter can overcome than React Native
Really good call to point out the difference between "kill" and being a "hard competitor" between languages. We'll be watching to see how both of them continue to evolve!
I had built an app with flutter and it is pretty good, Im a iOS Swift developer and I think as a native developer on iOS and I think it is good to have a skill in hybrid apps and for me I'll choose flutter for that one because the code syntaxes are not that far from swift.
Flutter is extraordinary. I just want to keep learning more about it and using it. I can't wait to be able to use it to embed plugins into existing Android/iOS apps for such things as paid content in mobile apps.
Hi, please suggest whether I should choose to Learn react native or flutter or native android development through java . I am complete beginner(as I only know C programming) and which of those 3 has greater scope for freelancing ? .
I think an important detail that this video missed is the way that flutter goes "straight to the metal" in a way that react native doesn't. While react native is designed to compile down to native framework code eg swift, flutter is more like a video game, controlling the GPU directly. This is arguably the killer feature here, because it means that flutter can be ported to create UIs on literally any device. Fridge screens, car dashboards, ATMs, whatever. This is why the framework is built on top of dart and not some other more popular, more established language: dart is optimised for GPU control and performance. Hence the beautiful 60fps rendering. PS I don't know a lot about this so if anything isn't right then please correct me :)
Hey Andrew, thanks for the great feedback! We know there are probably some things we didn't mention in this first impressions video -- we don't know much about Flutter ourselves. Scotty did mention something similar to your "video game" reference about Flutter in our latest video talking about React Native, though! We're definitely excited to see what the future of Flutter looks like, and a few of us have started dabbling in it here and there. We hope to make a video in the future about what we've learned and revisit the topic. Thanks again for your comment, we'll definitely reference back to it in the process of making our future videos (:
The topic you guys are talking is great and good But after 4 minutes of watching video i get bored I think you should change the way you make this kind of shows But i thank you for good topic
Honestly I've worked extensively with both frameworks, Flutter and React Native. But I am going to have to choose Flutter as the most promising for future mobile development. Also with Google working to bring out Hummingbird for web development that's built on top of Flutter framework and Dart programming language, It will end up being a complete game changer and will overtake everything in the industry! Mark my words, Flutter and Humming bird are the future. At the moment i'm going through a flutter course on Udemy with this guy Maximilian Schwarzmüller, hes honestly the best teacher I've ever had hands down.
I’ve built a couple of apps with react native and I found it quite easy to jump into considering I had prior experience with react. I was using expo, which seemed to make the whole experience pretty smooth
We have found that to be true as well! There's definitely more of a learning curve with Flutter when you're coming from React - Expo makes a big difference there as well. Thanks for the input!
so it is a problem now? isn't divide and conquer make thing more focused and managed? sometimes one party control everything is so risky you know. The finally fact that, google can shutdown flutter tomorrow who knows, so people really afraid using flutter in production
@@alooooooola true, but I like how everything is ready out of the box in flutter - saves so much time in development especially if you're just one person. Also I really don't think you need to worry about Google shutting down Flutter I think they have bigger issues to deal with at the moment 🤣
@@Zentamusic google biggest issue is their strange behaviour in close and open a project xD. I wont supprise if suddenly flutter page shut down tomorow
We have worked in a bunch of the major UX, and rapid hybrid and full stack tools over the past decade. From some of the most expensive tools that were mandated by corp and government projects like Outsystems, to Wakanda, React, Figma, Flutter and several others. But one thing in common is that they all have their own problems and best use cases. We work pretty darn close with some of the teams at Google, Apple and Facebook, and got some worrisome news of late about Google stepping away from some of its Flutter plans, to the chagrin on some close to the project. They were told by leads that the idea behind the shift discussed is have the market pick up more of the project. But based on similar past Google statements, we know what that means, and it is generally not good. It may not mean major problems for the platform, but I know that at least one of the core team members is weighing his options, and another blasted them a bit last week. But, we like Flutter a lot still, although Dart freaking blows on so many levels. Especially bad given all the bugs. As time is money, we currently do about 50% in Figma. We use it together with on of a few other animation tools. We hope to do more with Flutter, but it has the most ntove bugs of any environment we work with, so we keep stepping away each time we have tried. It always takes lots longer to do solidly in Flutter. We move to our own customized Webviews plus NodeJS in place for speed and stability. React Native is a bit more mature and stable in terms of those types of bugs. Really, it is a use case thing for the most part. However, I wish Google had gone the other way. They really need to squash a lot of aborted Hummingbird and other bugs that are causing lots of frustration. Unlike a 4 month project in Flutter that was supposed to be 4 weeks, we have not had to rewrite around major sections of React Native code like we recently did again in Flutter. One of our team members who pushed the team and client to have us do it in Flutter was almost fired. He wound up writing 10K lines of workaround replacement code to save his job. Given another year, we will revisit Flutter for Hybrid native dev, but right now... no way. It has just been too painful, and that continues to be Google’s fault.
We use React and Flutter for a lot of projects- over 2 dozen with React Native this year and 8 with Flutter. We still use Figma together Principle whenever possible- like any advanced UI/UX and mockup work and all of our complex protos where we need full animation, flat or other full concept interactivity. Figma plus Principle is 100% solid and stable every time and by far the best solution we have found for UX mockup and related design work. Saves us a lot of time and makes everyone really happy. That combo saves us days to weeks compared to trying to use a full RAD stack environment that uses reactive animation UX and responsive designs. It is sad that Google is stepping back from lead work on Flutter branches. Seeing them losing and moving project devs and relared engineers does not bode well.
I'm just about to finish a simple app at work in Flutter. My experience so far is good though I wish they have something similar to Boorstrap CSS styles esp. for different viewports. Running Media Queries everywhere is not a nice option unless I've not understood the Material UI concept. Even for Orientation changes from Portrait to Landscape, as a developer you have to take care of changing smaller to bigger fonts, icon sizes etc. Still I like the speed of development due to rapidly growing plugins and overall developer community. As far as I can see, Flutter will be a BIG player in cross platform mobile apps market. Also love the VS Code plugins for Dart and Flutter, makes life so much easier to code.
We really love the IDE support so far as well, it makes jumping in a lot faster. Lots to learn and try with the new toys and tools! Excited to see what the community can build.
I have been working on an enterprise Flutter app for the past 6 months. I really love Flutter and them taking inspiration from React helped me immensely in creating the UIs. The tough part though was making the BLoCs work. At its most basic, BLoCs work nice and make a lot of sense (using Rx streams to flow data and events). To help me learn it, I even tried implementing it using RxJS with React and it worked. My issue was that RxDart was a pain to work with especially coming from RxJS. It works quite differently in Dart than in JS. Plus being the team lead with junior developers under me, Rx seemed to be such a huge learning curve for them so I had to use a simpler approach to managing state. I still like the BLoC pattern but there needs to be more official information about it. Overall though, Flutter is an excellent choice for cross-platform development. It is simply the closest thing to "native" you are going to get it being implemented as a custom Skia renderer on a native view. The performance is great and the tools are excellent (I am exclusively using VSCode).
I've had a little time to think about this video and I think there are two main issues with it 1) Some of the statements about React Native are just plain wrong. You can use one small team to build both native and mobile apps with React and React native and you can share code across web and mobile. The main limitations to the sharing are limitations that you would experience in any multi-targeted approach. I literally laughed out loud when the guy with the plugs said "that'd be crazy if you could do everything in one code base". I'm really surprised you all didn't edit that comment out as you are an agency and it shows a lot of naivety about the current state of affairs. 2) You are talking about "Will Flutter kill React Native" and I get it, it's a click bait kind of title in a marketing video. But I feel that not including any context about what you are currently recommending to your clients leaves out the most useful and interesting aspects of the conversation for most folks. You all did touch on what would be needed to make Flutter dominate and I agree with your wish list there but you left out what you would use now to address the problem space that your wish list is aiming at in the future. And really if your answer isn't React Native for current recommendations then me and most others would be interested to hear what your current recommendation is.
Hey Ryan, thanks for both of your comments here - valid feedback and really good talking points. Couple thoughts to keep the conversation going: 1) Sharing code between React and React Native has been difficult unless you use some of the web extension frameworks for RN. We write almost all of our projects in React, but choose to keep product logic specific to the platform, at least so far. You're definitely right that any multi-targeted approach has risks! I think that's why it feels, "crazy" that we could actually accomplish that with Flutter/Dart. Pretty interesting to consider and will differ from most of the product development we've done in the past. 2) Sorry for not being more clear about our current stack: React Native has been our go-to for client apps for quite a while now. We don't see that changing unless another framework like Flutter can be tested, battle-hardened, and shows health and adoption within the dev community. Your point about addressing what we could use NOW to address the problem space is really good - good note for us in future content. We're actually making some React Native videos in the near future and would love to hear your thoughts if you have something you'd specifically like to see covered. One final thought: This is primarily a first-look-at-a-new-framework video so we didn't want to speak too objectively about the future of either React Native or Flutter. We love to learn and try new things so we're moving fast to form initial opinions, but you know just like we do that the landscape can change very quickly, so we're watching to see what happens! Again, really appreciate your thoughts and feedback. Thanks!
Super cool from our point of view as well! Do you use React Primitives or keep the front-end separate once you get down to the platform level? We use React Native for all of our mobile development at present and are always looking for better ways to manage our workflows.
@@EgidioCaprino We are getting the same kind of value and it's not only a huge value add for React Native but just for React in general. We also do a lot of node so we area able to give our clients so much value with a small team.
started flutter in a month, and i can't stop learn it because it was sooo addicting. hot reload features and soo many ready to use widgets. flutter is fun
Flutter all the way. Google played the wait and watch game, really well. After seeing many frameworks come and go, syntaxes and semantics come and go, learnt a lot from others successes and failures, they had a very good and strong starting point to head in the right direction compared to others, AND SO yeah flutter is here to stay and will eventually edge out all the other mobile development technologies and frameworks (for other platforms like the desktop and web, I'm not that positive as the canvas isn't ready yet for the web for text and other stuff that can replicate the SKIA magic). You guys have missed out on highlighting the prowess of the tooling which is crucial, like, the fast debugging, widget inspector that outlines and shows the widgets in a page, the hot pushes and quick boot up time, the debugging capabilities with state being retained right into a nested page, the performance snapshots right into the application, etc., I had my own skepticism around the early adoption and the risks, after using it for a few months on complex projects and ease with which it works, and addresses the complex requirements is awesome, commendable and liberating. Flutter is developers' frenzy!
Definitely smart by Google to wait and polish this library before releasing it. Good point on the tooling being such a huge draw - we're looking forward to more practice there as well!
Absolutely! I agree that tooling, CI and CD are really really awesome. I look forward to when I can write, test, deploy and publish to the app stores automagically.
Hi, did you publish your flutter app???we are planning to switch from ionic to flutter but we are little bit afraid b/c flutter is fairly new...how was your overall development experience and will it be a safe bet to migrate our app to flutter right now???
@@zafarali3817 Flutter new or not, can't be worst than Ionic lol. Seriously, every time I see an Ionic app I try staying away from it. Switch to Flutter, even at 1.0 is much more stable and enjoyable for users than Ionic.
Yeah,you are right we've been using Ionic for 2 years and we have created alot of custom plugins to meet our requirements.we worked very hard to make our app stable and it is now stable ....but our team has decided to switch now....we are currently doing R&D to switch either to react-native or to flutter...so it isn't Ionic vs flutter rather I was asking how stable the Flutter is,compare to react-native...I forgot to mention it though...
Can anyone help me to decide, I want to build a cross app in flutter which will be a shopping app to sell my own product. What are the cons I may face if I my business grow fast? Thanks
Flutter wont take off unless you can use Javascript libraries in Dart. Think about all the JS libraries that have to be ported over. Surprised Google doesnt see this
@@albertgeorge1619 Better this better that but yet people don't focus on becoming great and instead sing about platforms without necessarily being good and creative when it comes to using them. It makes me sick. Either you use Flutter or React Native, very little if nothing at all does the user of your app care.
I invite everyone to give Xamarin.Forms a look! We have hot reload now, cross-platform development (in one C#/XAML codebase), including iOS, Android, UWP, Mac, GTK, Tizen, etc. With .NET Standard simplifying code sharing, .NET Core now supporting self-contained deployments and Web Assembly gaining speed- things are getting exciting! We are getting closer to a day where we will be able to publish mobile apps to the web (thanks to Web Assembly). In fact, someone has done this, but the performance isn't quite there yet... One last thing; we are able to write native code right inside of our cross-platform solution. This is something I don't think a lot of people are aware of. My team has been using Xamarin.Forms for enterprise applications for the last 2 years. The Microsoft ecosystem is much, much better than it has been in years past. I prefer strongly typed languages and VS though, so I may be biased! If JavaScript wasn't such pain to debug, I'd be more enthusiastic about something like React Native... I am starting to learn Flutter later this month. We'll see how it goes. I am worried with it being a Google product for many of the same reasons other people have mentioned in the comments. Still worth a shot! The more tools we have- the better!
We're filming a video today where Andrew will be going over his experience building an app in Flutter. Please let us know how your experience goes too!
Things that we don't understand is, flutter is not matured enough for Devs to use, since the community hasn't grown in this framework there is a possibility of someone getting stuck at a bug for days, And the other things none of the frameworks tell you is , upgrading it's versions, upgrading a SDK or a framework version is so annoying when there are breaking channels in your code, because the documentation doesn't provide support for that most of the time and we need to figure it out by the community issues and resolves, just think a framework like flutter which doesn't have much community comes across a issue like this , you will be spending days and days trying to figure out how to fix it, BUT then again with time flutter will over take React Native since there is no translation between the native level and the framework, thus making it super fast (slightly exaggerated).
We've only run into a few cases where documentation or community support was lacking. However, we were able to look at the source code to figure out what we needed. I've had to do this on previous React Native projects too. I would love to hear about what you are building with Flutter that makes you consider it not mature enough for development. We've been building some pretty incredible things and are pretty impressed so far.
I've been doing React Native for a couple of years now. I'd love to hear your take on Flutter if you get a chance. So far it seems extremely stable and fast. I really like what I see so far!
The only huge difference between RN and Flutter is that Flutter is faster, however that will be over pretty soon, and Flutter will have nothing to offer over React Native.
@@Cremalab Its very hard to predict how communities will evolve and go from now, but JavaScript is definately bigger than Dart, and you can virtually find any type of lib for JS.
from pakistan: i have been a native developer of ios and andorid for years! then i found React Native is a nice experience! but i don't like the using flutter as its farely new! i coded an application in it! and i love the simplicity! but its not yet mature that much! and support is pretty low!
Agreed! We like to keep an eye on new tech but not switch before really learning about the tool and the support behind it. Thanks for sharing your experience!
Will Flutter kill React Native? the answer is NO. The only advantage I see with flutter is (In theory) the performance, but there aren't many benchmarks out there to compare, and this point will change when the React Native new architecture is done (Fabric). Also, the community of Js/Web devs is really big and using React Native for a React.js dev is a very easy transition, I think both frameworks will share the market of Cross-Platform Apps it's only a matter of preference, some people prefer the Jsx syntax than the verbose way of Flutter, just look this example: github.com/iampawan/FlutterWhatsAppClone/blob/master/lib/pages/status_screen.dart It's horrible, it looks like a callback hell!
"its just flutter update" ... easy said, but you have to keep in mind, the credit goes also to Dart, with a stable release dating to 2013 which now is 7 years. There have been a lot of changes until first release an solved a lot of design issues until now. So... when Java conquered the world it was only 4 years old but enterprise and taken seriously like 6 years old. Understanding, that there have been a lot of licensing issues with java and a demand on solving problems with the Javascript engine, I recommend to take Dart more serious than ever. Its by far the best thought through language that I know, from an OOP standpoint. People comming from a VB or python kind of language, may need some time to get familiar with it, but for a Java Developer not having to deal with swift, kotlin, Objective C, in particular with framework/styleguide definitions, flutter essentially being a Dart UseCase is a good deed. Workarounds like React Native, Cordoba, PhoneGap aim on helping Javascript Developers getting hands on some native development, but in my opinion is rather an inferior choice due to the fact, it never became a mature language. The initial idea about Javascript was engenious! thats why it became popular in the first place, Dart outgrew Javascript in a short time and was already by far superior in 2013.
Question for you boys. Ive been a sys network admin for over 10 years now and looking to branch into app/prgram design. Where do you guys recommend to start i understand theres react/flutter/ionic but what cores should i be understanding first. I havent realy done much with web design or databases, Just looking for a direction to start. What courses should i look at or should i just self teach? Any help is appreciated
Hey Matt, thanks for watching! If you're looking into mobile application development, Scotty recommends these courses on Udemy (some of these happen to be on sale right now!) Flutter & Dart: www.udemy.com/course/learn-flutter-dart-to-build-ios-android-apps/ Scotty learned React Native with this course here: www.udemy.com/course/learn-flutter-dart-to-build-ios-android-apps/ If you're leaning more toward the traditional side, it'd be a good idea to start with the basics -- html/CSS/JavaScript then move up to working in React or whatever frameworks you wish to move up to. Jake highly recommends starting with this Codecademy course: www.codecademy.com/learn/learn-html Here's a Web Developer Bootcamp that goes over everything and assumes nothing about your previous education on the subject. (Also on sale!) www.udemy.com/the-web-developer-bootcamp/ Overall, our team has had really great experiences learning from sites such as Udemy, Codecademy, and Team Treehouse to name a few. Hope this helped, we're happy to answer any further questions you have!
I'm electrical technician I don't have any background about any development stuff, but to be honest, I fucked up with my supervisor he so much crazy so that's why I want to learn how to create mobile apps and web apps. One of my friends he software engineer and he is really really good, he suggested me to start from react-native so I did and I'm going deep in navigation and I'm trying to master it, I found it little easy if you understand it, but the real problem is when I hear too many people told me to leave it and learn bla bla I feel like I'm really confused about what I learned and asking myself should I keep moving with RN or I have to learn something else like Flutter. I'm sorry about my bad English
Sorry to hear you got in over your head! If it helps: we all feel that way from time to time doing development work. It's a constant game of what to learn, what to master, and what to ignore. Keep at it and thanks for sharing!
What I would suggest is learn computer science fundamentals, you don't have to struggle to decide mobile app or web app or cross-platform. Trust me most of the software engineers don't know the core basic skills, But Once to practice and master Fundamentals and problem-solving, You don't need to ask/listen, anyone, you will make your own decision.
I come from native iOS development and React Native was so overwhelming, I got frustrated by the errors when I tried to run a simple app. Then I looked at Flutter, and oh boy, it feels so much better for me. I think RN is preferred by those who come from web dev background, while native mobile developers might prefer to use Flutter instead. I've only worked on both for a week, and I chose to work with Flutter finally. Dart language is just like Java or any other OO languages, so it's easier to learn for me.
I'm not a developer but even so, I'm pretty sure that Flutter will not kill react native. At least not in the foreseeable future. Right now react is pretty much dominating the web apps space (with Vue breathing down its neck) and having a framework that takes the familiarity of that code to mobile development is a huge thing. It saves businesses huge amounts of time and money. Flutter will only be in a position to "kill" react native if and when Web assembly (WASM) becomes a serious thing as it could potentially include support for the Dart programming language. If that happens the cards shift dramatically in favour of Flutter. But before than I just don't really see it happening.
I am wondering after 20 months of this video, what is happening to flutter. I personally LOVE flutter, but it seems not that popular as expected and RN is still strong. At least in job market.
Want to get an opinion on this all day I've been watching videos of using AR and VR in the respective frameworks. Flutter AR seems not as advanced as Viro React atm but idk much about this field , does anyone else have an opinion on this I would love to get some feedback from people who have maybe used both or just general thoughts please thanks :)
Flutter has really caught my eye because I was told there is much more of an ease of use and the widgets are excellent! Question? Has the flutter team fixed the stutter issues? I think I won't touch this peace of tech unless those issues have been resolved.
The stutter issues is the only reason I’m still on the fence about flutter. The fact it is still an issue in 2023 means to me they are not able to fix it.
@@iykazorji8171 Wow, that is disappointing. I hadn't touched the technology yet. Been working on Django with Python and some JavaScript. I always wanted to try out flutter. I hear your able to deploy your product quickly. But if this issue still exists then I won't even consider it, thanks for sharing.
can someone tell why is xamarin not liked by the hybird community ?? i think it's great and the most mature of all of them also UI building is very easy compared to the other hybird frameworks
Xamarin definitely has the edge on most frameworks due to its age, but it doesn't seem to have the traction that React Native, Ionic, Flutter, or other frameworks do, at least not right now. A big blocker for us is having to write everything in .NET since we're mainly a React & JS shop. Any thoughts on other reasons Xamarin doesn't really share the limelight?
Have you ever tried xamarin on a Mac? I used to try working on a xamarin project. One developer was using windows while I’m on a mac. It was mostly a pain for me because the project wont even build without errors everywhere whenever I pulled new commits from my friend. The errors come from the IDE, because things should’ve worked okay. He ended up working on it alone. Then after flutter came, my boss told me to recreate it using flutter. So much easier.
At 8:20 the guy in the middle says his Dev Buddy is switching to Flutter, and he has been native only. Maybe it isn't understood that well, but, Dart/Flutter is native. When built for release, Dart is actually compiled. It is only running in a VM/Interpreted while in Debug/Development builds.
Hey Don! Guy in the middle here. What I meant was that he was against any cross-platform, non-swift, third-party, cross platform solutions for mobile development. He was so impressed by the speed and approach of Flutter that he became a believer. Thanks for the feedback, in hindsight I could have clarified that a bit more.
The flavor of the Month = Google Code base & product. This alone turns me away from it. I learn the hard way by learning Angular 1, 2 and thank god React was an easy to learn situation. Regardless no one should ever assume Google is making it easy for developers unless they get something in return.
There is a big difference between a product being backed by Google and an open source developer library / toolkit being backed by Google. The latter tend to have much more staying power.
Check out our blog post on Cross-Platform Native App Development - Life Before and After Flutter: www.crema.us/blog/cross-platform-native-app-development-life-before-and-after-flutter
Yo please please review sketchware you'll love it
Hey, Hera! Thank you for the suggestion, we'll add it to the list (:
i thought web apps were cross platform?
Definitely! This is less about PWA and more about languages that compile down to mobile platforms. We write our share of web apps as well, though!
Oh man, where to start...? So many core code and implementation probs in flutter and Dart. We gave circled back around like 4 time now. We really want to like it... we really want to use it. Also, we keep hearing that Google is stepping back again and has constrained resources on it now. Is that true? One of the sources works closely with them. So, it makes me think it is true. Sure explains the increased probs. I guess if you are ready and able to code around the problems then sure, it could be really good for some UC’s.
I'm a React Native developer. If Flutter "kills" React Native, then I will move to Flutter, simple as that 😀. I personally don't have a preference 😀
You sir, are the manifestation of learning technology and not language.
Yash Kalwani arent we all my friend, time is limited, Ive got FLUTTERing bird to feed.
Not enough dinosaurs ! 🤷♂️
Same as you. I learn what is most on-demand in my city. If coding with Potato is the new trend in my city, I code with Potato lol.
B..but you're a palaeontologist............
"You'lll never have to learn another framework again. Angular.js will forever be backwards compatible" - Google
9 months later...
"This is Anuglar 2 and it's nothing like Angular and we're killing Angular.js" - Also Google
Agreed - there's always a little bit of trepidation around a new offering from them. Excited to see the community continue to support the framework as a whole!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA but they did good on android to androidx though backward compatible run smooth
Yup. Now they are considering “setting it free”. Great timing Google- especially with all the new bugs they added. “Clutter” has become the new name fast gaining in popularity.
GOOGLE- COME ON AND MAKE UP YOUR MIND. Fix the huge base of problems and the stupid choice of Dart, or spin it off and sell it. It has huge potential, but right now it is more of a cautionary tale than a viable solution for many.
Also Google: We'll make it the hardest to learn, the most cumbersome and least efficient web framework. Also have our boi Evan You beat us with a completely open-source project
🤣🤣
6:51 - your welcome :)
You are
I'm working on our first Flutter/Dart app, and while the initial learning curve was steep, it is making a lot of sense, and it is so fast. Hot reload is so useful, I cannot imagine going back to something that requires build/run/compile times... loving the UI and the smooth native flows.
We're all about the fast user feedback while developing! Definitely a lot to learn but the tooling is amazing once you get up and running. Best of luck and thanks for stopping by!
What has your experience been throughout these years?
7:28 I mean.. PHP is still here...
They laugh.
They realize PHP is actually still here .
No more laughs.
lol. word.
PHP .. the Donald Trump of coding languages
@@chriscorrigan14 PHP is like the predecessor for woke script kiddies nowadays (before they became "woke" to using javascript for everything... stupid idea, by the way)
Brent Feathers ya, I think I gave Trump too much credit there
PHP 8.0 is gonna be amazing
Dart is so ugly to look at. Jsx is no the best, but is way more simple to understand what is going on.Wrap ten thousand function inside another function just to get some padding is ridiculous.
That single fact scares me from using flutter over react native
React Native said: I will replace the native app in the future, hug me quickly.
Flutter said: I will replace native app soon, don't learn RN, just study me.
Native: Well... Both of you are right, I'm just waiting the third guy who claims to replace me in a day.
Well unless Google is ditching the current "Native".
Google Fuchsia is built using Flutter en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Fuchsia
Web is the future 🤷♂️
hell still working on kotlin and swift...
Hm but who would build the third guy? MS has xamarin, FB has RN, now Google started flutter. Amazon...? C'mon...
@@MultiLenoxxx Flutter takes care of that too.
Everyone is talking about FLUTTER vs REACT NATIVE and here I am studying JAVASCRIPT and now confused what to do because everyone is killing each other.
Haha..me too
After just learning node js and react, I thought, "finally I have some skills". And now "ahh! What do i need to learn"
🤣🤣
Here are the issues I have with Flutter so far:
1- Material everything. The “Flutter way” of doing things just assumes you’re using Material design and then maybe overriding for your app’s brand. I much prefer RN’s minimalist approach to theming, which adopts each OS’s design language and then allows you to override from there.
2- Dart is a post-apocalyptic wasteland. Have you tried searching for Dart packages for specific functions? There’s one solution, if any, for a given common problem. The Dart ecosystem is so tiny and seems to be moving at a snail’s pace compared to JavaScript. This leads me to my next point.
3 - Flutter is its own world. You can bridge Obj C and Java to Flutter/Dart and I’ve worked on projects where we have done so. But you’re still compiling a unique Flutter stack. For example if you want to have a brownfield app that mixes Flutter and existing native code you’re in for a bumpy ride. In fact I don’t think it’s possible. That worries me because I’m always dependent on the Flutter architecture for my app. With RN I can just go pure native and build on Android and iOS SDKs if I want.
I think the main criticisms given to RN are performance for things like animation and library availability/ stability. Performance is already being addressed by Facebook, and the RN team is working on a JS-to-native messaging system that is much faster than the current bridge. As for library availability/stability, I’m constantly seeing updates to existing libraries and discovering new ones. An entire open source community has emerged around RN and we’re learning and developing a rich ecosystem around the library.
I think Flutter is a contender. It’s just way too dependent on Google and Dart, and so the overall ecosystem is small and slow, which is worrisome atm. This may change and I’m rooting for Flutter. I think it’s an otherwise beautiful framework.
UPDATE: It looks like the Flutter team have addressed the brownfield app issue recently, so I think if you want to incorporate Flutter into an existing app you have better options now.
Excellent points. Material overrides (or replacements) are going to be interesting to track going forward - do you think most people will want to roll their own styles most of the time?
Like you, we've been thinking a lot about the difference between having the flexibility to go full native vs being siloed in a framework for 90% of the architecture. React Native's recent push for, "Lean Core" is a really, really interesting development from that perspective.
Thanks for the great thoughts! We're excited to see how things look in another six months or so as the communities continue to grow and change.
Crema With how crowded the App and Play Stores are, and with the need to make our products engaging and to stand out, absolutely yes. The Hamilton Broadway musical app that has been one of the Flutter success stories presented by Google is one example of a completey branded experience. That's one of the marketing lines of Flutter (and I'm paraphrasing): No more cookie-cutter apps. The closeness to the metal allows fluid animations that are themselves often used to delivery a delightful UX and to differentiate an app's brand.
Excellent point! Thanks again for bringing up those real-world cases.
Crema thank you guys for being light-hearted and tongue-in-cheek about the whole "killing RN" thing. I think the competition is better for all of us.
There is Cupertino
Hope flutter vs RN is not next angular vs react.
Same here, actually. We're excited to see where the road leads but aren't really into the turf wars that often result from these framework comparisons. Use the best tool for the job, eh?
It took me a week to finally start with React Native to start my mobile development career, everything was setup and then I came here, saw the video, read the comments and all of sudden, I believe its better to start learning Flutter now!
Exciting times! Thanks for stopping by and good luck!
6 months ago, some of my colleagues were excited about flutter and now i dont hear anything about flutter from them. Run from the problem itself is smart
react-native doesn't promise you, that you can reuse, the code with react-dom. But you can reuse it with react-native-web.
It will kill electron as well, as soon it comes to desktop, for one week I've had enough. Dart is pretty easy to learn especially if you used typescript before.
We've been loving the knowledge transfer from TS to Dart as well so far. Excited to keep learning.
That is true bro!! Ts and dart are too similar! I am an angular developer, that is why dart is so easy for me! :D :D
Very interesting talk! I really like that you build some apps at least and talk about real experience and feelings, the majority of comparison I see only reads the description of the web site of each framework. Very nice!
We love to get our hands dirty and build (or break) lots of things to learn more. Thanks for the feedback!
Flutter won't kill react-native-web because there are so many developers who prefer writing just JavaScript.
Also, React is backed by Facebook so Flutter being backed by Google doesn't mean anything.
Angular has proven to be a large failure as well
I like React because I can build Web Apps and mobile Native Apps using React
As of now I think React Native still rules, But in future, I guess flutter will win because Google will soon release fushia OS and flutter being a Google technology will move to it leaving react native behind.
"Google will soon release fushia OS"... Well Hi! Google will not be releasing Fuchsia for mobile in the short term. It will initially be rolled out to Chromebooks as a replacement for Chrome OS. You can most probably expect your phone to run Fuchsia in no less than 3 years (and another 2 for vendors to release phones running it). On the other hand, Fuchsia WILL support Android apps as first class citizens (just check the repo, ART has been commited a month or two ago, and Magenta interops with it just fine), therefore you can keep coding native apps, Ionic apps, Flutter apps, RN apps, etc, given that all compile to APK's ergo all will run. I invite you to read more about the topic. Cheers!
@@mradzinski Good Point, Thanks
It will be super interesting to see what happens with the ecosystem as a whole - here's hoping that everyone continues to play nice together! Thanks for the thoughts.
I've been buildiing react native apps for two years and I just started flutter a couple weeks ago and while I think flutter is a better solution, it will not "kill" react native.
Chisom Ekwuribe drop your email address Bros. I want to enquire something from you.
@Gerald Alvin you have Instagram? @socom.458
Sent u a msg on IG
Github Issues React Native 727 Flutter +5000 mmmm I ´m going to learn React Native first.
Consider the fact that not all the issues are problems. Some of them are suggestions for improvements
See mom, nerds have UA-cam channels too. ;)
R.I.P. React Native. Used em both. Flutter wins hands down
Ive tried, ionic, rn, nativescript and tbh flutter is the best right now
Sorry, but receive feedback about Mobile Development from web devs is not trustworthy. I worked react native about 8 months with a React JS team and I practically spent my time arguing with them (memory leaks everywhere) and at the end the project was a mess and the company lost the client. I think Flutter is the future but if not ruled by web devs.
I watched the demo for Flutter. I'm amazed at all the zooming and scaling magic. I want to learn flutter (and dart) now.
Yeah! Flutter's rendering engine is really cool. Excited to keep using it.
What sort of projects do you see yourself working on with Flutter?
@@Cremalab I'm currently learning reactjs(web), I hope to build mobile versions of my webapps. The easiest transition is reactNative, but I didn't see a RN demo app that would match the demo app for flutter shown here: ua-cam.com/video/kpcjBD1XDwU/v-deo.html
java script was ha hard to understand for beginners' language harder than c or c++. then all other languages I pretty easy to get it. so the principal factor I guess is workflow performance different metrics. have to have good productivity, have to be able to have good compatibility with any technology or development and creativity to extend new ideas of apps and able to perform it pretty fast nad low issues. for example, I want to put 3d web unity level o special effect in flutter is it possible? if not why not back to c++ an create a good framework. maybe unty additional app will eat them all.
Flutter is great. For a company that wants to build an app on the cheap.. all the hard work is done..
Flutter will not kill react native, the JavaScript ecosystem will, adding/upgrading routing on react native should be a 5 min stuff not a 3 hour research
coming from native android develpment, i started learning react native and boy has it been one bumpy ride! flutter looks more promising, the plugins are a one up for me. i'm gonna start learning flutter.
The plugins are definitely very nice. Thank you for watching!
Any update on the learning experience? I'm divided about which is one is good. Have dabbled a bit in RN and also felt it was a bit of a bumpy ride, also the documentation doesn't feel that great. Was flutter better in these aspects?
@@chrheca hi, I'm currently using flutter for a project I just embarked on, so far its been great. Once you learn the basics of dart and understand flutter is "all widgets" then you're good to go. Flutter's documentation(you should check it out) is simply awesome unlike RN's. My first RN app didn't have that native feel at all, one could tell it was hybrid easily, so many lines of code was required to get the android ripple effect but with flutter your apps get the native look and feel with little effort be it android or iOS.
I suggest you go with flutter.
@@izzy-cs6fu I am a RN developer and I can confirm what you said. Flutter has a far better developer experience. From now on I will only use Flutter for my side projects.
@@JonesDTaylor As mainly a web developer I think the opposite, Flutter is more verbose and has too much nesting and you really need to know well the widgets and his relationship to do a decent project. I think RN brings a better user experience
Can't wait to get better at flutter!!
Google kills alot application and products in the past.
A college student who is just staring with development what should I choose flutter or javascript (//experience in ds algo c++)
JavaScript hands down. It has a much more broad application. But the jump to dart for flutter isn’t too far. But the internet runs in JavaScript so you probably start there.
I, as a web developer, love RN. Hope RN will get better as its competitor is coming.
We agree! And we still support ReactNative for sure! But Flutter seems to be winning us over.
In flutter you r doing everything only in flutter. No html no jquery no bootstrap no css.
Flutter and dart feel very natural for me. So glad it eliminated the xml need for android. I cringe if i had to go back to java/xml for android now. Flutter for web is very usable but still not there so I'm interested to see how long that takes
I would like to use flutter I am having a lot of issues with installing. I have watched many videos. Still no success I would still like to use it. Android studio is the problem I believe, I start a new application and it won’t allow me to hit the next but I can name the project then go on to the next page I can’t get any further than that. Can you point me in the right direction please.
Thank you
Chris C.
Hi Chris,
The android studio installation documentation is actually pretty good if you make sure to follow all the steps (developer.android.com/studio/install).
Apart from that, I would recommend a course from the London App Brewery (they worked with Google to develop the course) www.appbrewery.co/p/flutter-development-bootcamp-with-dart.
- Scotty
Me, honestly, don't know if Flutter can kill React Native for this time and in the future, but based on my personal opinion, Flutter can be a hard competitor to React Native. Currently, I am learning Flutter and at the same time Dart as well. Just like Rails, you need to know at least Ruby's OOP, enum, inheritance and so on. I have developed a few web app using React and React Native, but to be honest, JavaScript is not my favorite anymore since there is a lot of framework and library of JavaScript and sometimes, I feel like I lost when thinking of JavaScript. Back to the track, Flutter is still young than React Native. Every programmer and web developer knows more React Native than Flutter. But who knows, if in this year, Flutter can overcome than React Native
Really good call to point out the difference between "kill" and being a "hard competitor" between languages. We'll be watching to see how both of them continue to evolve!
I had built an app with flutter and it is pretty good, Im a iOS Swift developer and I think as a native developer on iOS and I think it is good to have a skill in hybrid apps and for me I'll choose flutter for that one because the code syntaxes are not that far from swift.
Agreed. Coming from a native background, Flutter feels the most natural.
Thank you for your opinion, I'm a native ios developer myself too and I am searching for a hybrid app.
"Learn once and run everywhere" is as possible as perpetuum mobile.
Just learn native and stop chasing frameworks.
Rimantas Liubertas please explain further
Flutter is extraordinary. I just want to keep learning more about it and using it. I can't wait to be able to use it to embed plugins into existing Android/iOS apps for such things as paid content in mobile apps.
Delphi already does all this and more. Except this is free
DELPHI? :D DELPHI IS DEAD IN 2000
@@SayWhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat radstudio 10.3.3
They have a tech called firemonkey
Hi, please suggest whether I should choose to Learn react native or flutter or native android development through java . I am complete beginner(as I only know C programming) and which of those 3 has greater scope for freelancing ? .
I think you better learn react..thus you can use the same knowledge in web development
I think an important detail that this video missed is the way that flutter goes "straight to the metal" in a way that react native doesn't. While react native is designed to compile down to native framework code eg swift, flutter is more like a video game, controlling the GPU directly. This is arguably the killer feature here, because it means that flutter can be ported to create UIs on literally any device. Fridge screens, car dashboards, ATMs, whatever. This is why the framework is built on top of dart and not some other more popular, more established language: dart is optimised for GPU control and performance. Hence the beautiful 60fps rendering.
PS I don't know a lot about this so if anything isn't right then please correct me :)
Hey Andrew, thanks for the great feedback!
We know there are probably some things we didn't mention in this first impressions video -- we don't know much about Flutter ourselves.
Scotty did mention something similar to your "video game" reference about Flutter in our latest video talking about React Native, though!
We're definitely excited to see what the future of Flutter looks like, and a few of us have started dabbling in it here and there. We hope to make a video in the future about what we've learned and revisit the topic.
Thanks again for your comment, we'll definitely reference back to it in the process of making our future videos (:
The topic you guys are talking is great and good
But after 4 minutes of watching video i get bored
I think you should change the way you make this kind of shows
But i thank you for good topic
Thank you for the feedback, Ramtin. We're always looking for ways to improve our content!
@@Cremalab I'm the opposite. Format was great -- I was never bored. Keep doing what you're doing.
Thanks, Subtex!
We're still working on our formats and finding a happy medium for everyone. (:
Honestly I've worked extensively with both frameworks, Flutter and React Native. But I am going to have to choose Flutter as the most promising for future mobile development. Also with Google working to bring out Hummingbird for web development that's built on top of Flutter framework and Dart programming language, It will end up being a complete game changer and will overtake everything in the industry! Mark my words, Flutter and Humming bird are the future. At the moment i'm going through a flutter course on Udemy with this guy Maximilian Schwarzmüller, hes honestly the best teacher I've ever had hands down.
I’ve built a couple of apps with react native and I found it quite easy to jump into considering I had prior experience with react. I was using expo, which seemed to make the whole experience pretty smooth
We have found that to be true as well! There's definitely more of a learning curve with Flutter when you're coming from React - Expo makes a big difference there as well. Thanks for the input!
As a user of both, I strongly recommend you use flutter. React Native doesn't even come with navigation between screens by default ffs
so it is a problem now? isn't divide and conquer make thing more focused and managed? sometimes one party control everything is so risky you know. The finally fact that, google can shutdown flutter tomorrow who knows, so people really afraid using flutter in production
@@alooooooola true, but I like how everything is ready out of the box in flutter - saves so much time in development especially if you're just one person. Also I really don't think you need to worry about Google shutting down Flutter I think they have bigger issues to deal with at the moment 🤣
@@Zentamusic google biggest issue is their strange behaviour in close and open a project xD. I wont supprise if suddenly flutter page shut down tomorow
@@Zentamusic everything is ready or just a waste is depend
The Flare/Flair that they are talking about was renamed to called Rive App.
a month into learning flutter. Lovin it every step of the way.
We have worked in a bunch of the major UX, and rapid hybrid and full stack tools over the past decade. From some of the most expensive tools that were mandated by corp and government projects like Outsystems, to Wakanda, React, Figma, Flutter and several others. But one thing in common is that they all have their own problems and best use cases.
We work pretty darn close with some of the teams at Google, Apple and Facebook, and got some worrisome news of late about Google stepping away from some of its Flutter plans, to the chagrin on some close to the project. They were told by leads that the idea behind the shift discussed is have the market pick up more of the project. But based on similar past Google statements, we know what that means, and it is generally not good. It may not mean major problems for the platform, but I know that at least one of the core team members is weighing his options, and another blasted them a bit last week.
But, we like Flutter a lot still, although Dart freaking blows on so many levels. Especially bad given all the bugs.
As time is money, we currently do about 50% in Figma. We use it together with on of a few other animation tools. We hope to do more with Flutter, but it has the most ntove bugs of any environment we work with, so we keep stepping away each time we have tried. It always takes lots longer to do solidly in Flutter. We move to our own customized Webviews plus NodeJS in place for speed and stability.
React Native is a bit more mature and stable in terms of those types of bugs. Really, it is a use case thing for the most part. However, I wish Google had gone the other way. They really need to squash a lot of aborted Hummingbird and other bugs that are causing lots of frustration. Unlike a 4 month project in Flutter that was supposed to be 4 weeks, we have not had to rewrite around major sections of React Native code like we recently did again in Flutter. One of our team members who pushed the team and client to have us do it in Flutter was almost fired. He wound up writing 10K lines of workaround replacement code to save his job.
Given another year, we will revisit Flutter for Hybrid native dev, but right now... no way. It has just been too painful, and that continues to be Google’s fault.
We use React and Flutter for a lot of projects- over 2 dozen with React Native this year and 8 with Flutter.
We still use Figma together Principle whenever possible- like any advanced UI/UX and mockup work and all of our complex protos where we need full animation, flat or other full concept interactivity. Figma plus Principle is 100% solid and stable every time and by far the best solution we have found for UX mockup and related design work. Saves us a lot of time and makes everyone really happy. That combo saves us days to weeks compared to trying to use a full RAD stack environment that uses reactive animation UX and responsive designs.
It is sad that Google is stepping back from lead work on Flutter branches. Seeing them losing and moving project devs and relared engineers does not bode well.
PWA will kill both flutter and reactnative.
Well, isn’t PWA by react?
I'm just about to finish a simple app at work in Flutter. My experience so far is good though I wish they have something similar to Boorstrap CSS styles esp. for different viewports. Running Media Queries everywhere is not a nice option unless I've not understood the Material UI concept. Even for Orientation changes from Portrait to Landscape, as a developer you have to take care of changing smaller to bigger fonts, icon sizes etc. Still I like the speed of development due to rapidly growing plugins and overall developer community. As far as I can see, Flutter will be a BIG player in cross platform mobile apps market. Also love the VS Code plugins for Dart and Flutter, makes life so much easier to code.
We really love the IDE support so far as well, it makes jumping in a lot faster. Lots to learn and try with the new toys and tools! Excited to see what the community can build.
I have been working on an enterprise Flutter app for the past 6 months. I really love Flutter and them taking inspiration from React helped me immensely in creating the UIs. The tough part though was making the BLoCs work. At its most basic, BLoCs work nice and make a lot of sense (using Rx streams to flow data and events). To help me learn it, I even tried implementing it using RxJS with React and it worked. My issue was that RxDart was a pain to work with especially coming from RxJS. It works quite differently in Dart than in JS. Plus being the team lead with junior developers under me, Rx seemed to be such a huge learning curve for them so I had to use a simpler approach to managing state. I still like the BLoC pattern but there needs to be more official information about it.
Overall though, Flutter is an excellent choice for cross-platform development. It is simply the closest thing to "native" you are going to get it being implemented as a custom Skia renderer on a native view. The performance is great and the tools are excellent (I am exclusively using VSCode).
BLoC is definitely the biggest hurdle we have run into as well. Hopefully the flutter team will put a bit more thought into that.
I've had a little time to think about this video and I think there are two main issues with it
1) Some of the statements about React Native are just plain wrong. You can use one small team to build both native and mobile apps with React and React native and you can share code across web and mobile. The main limitations to the sharing are limitations that you would experience in any multi-targeted approach. I literally laughed out loud when the guy with the plugs said "that'd be crazy if you could do everything in one code base". I'm really surprised you all didn't edit that comment out as you are an agency and it shows a lot of naivety about the current state of affairs.
2) You are talking about "Will Flutter kill React Native" and I get it, it's a click bait kind of title in a marketing video. But I feel that not including any context about what you are currently recommending to your clients leaves out the most useful and interesting aspects of the conversation for most folks. You all did touch on what would be needed to make Flutter dominate and I agree with your wish list there but you left out what you would use now to address the problem space that your wish list is aiming at in the future. And really if your answer isn't React Native for current recommendations then me and most others would be interested to hear what your current recommendation is.
Hey Ryan, thanks for both of your comments here - valid feedback and really good talking points.
Couple thoughts to keep the conversation going:
1) Sharing code between React and React Native has been difficult unless you use some of the web extension frameworks for RN. We write almost all of our projects in React, but choose to keep product logic specific to the platform, at least so far.
You're definitely right that any multi-targeted approach has risks! I think that's why it feels, "crazy" that we could actually accomplish that with Flutter/Dart. Pretty interesting to consider and will differ from most of the product development we've done in the past.
2) Sorry for not being more clear about our current stack: React Native has been our go-to for client apps for quite a while now. We don't see that changing unless another framework like Flutter can be tested, battle-hardened, and shows health and adoption within the dev community.
Your point about addressing what we could use NOW to address the problem space is really good - good note for us in future content. We're actually making some React Native videos in the near future and would love to hear your thoughts if you have something you'd specifically like to see covered.
One final thought: This is primarily a first-look-at-a-new-framework video so we didn't want to speak too objectively about the future of either React Native or Flutter. We love to learn and try new things so we're moving fast to form initial opinions, but you know just like we do that the landscape can change very quickly, so we're watching to see what happens!
Again, really appreciate your thoughts and feedback. Thanks!
Super cool from our point of view as well! Do you use React Primitives or keep the front-end separate once you get down to the platform level? We use React Native for all of our mobile development at present and are always looking for better ways to manage our workflows.
@@EgidioCaprino We are getting the same kind of value and it's not only a huge value add for React Native but just for React in general. We also do a lot of node so we area able to give our clients so much value with a small team.
started flutter in a month, and i can't stop learn it because it was sooo addicting. hot reload features and soo many ready to use widgets. flutter is fun
Soooo I'm not even sure what Flutter is, but that Chiefs shirt makes me believe anything you say.
Flutter all the way.
Google played the wait and watch game, really well. After seeing many frameworks come and go, syntaxes and semantics come and go, learnt a lot from others successes and failures, they had a very good and strong starting point to head in the right direction compared to others, AND SO yeah flutter is here to stay and will eventually edge out all the other mobile development technologies and frameworks (for other platforms like the desktop and web, I'm not that positive as the canvas isn't ready yet for the web for text and other stuff that can replicate the SKIA magic).
You guys have missed out on highlighting the prowess of the tooling which is crucial, like, the fast debugging, widget inspector that outlines and shows the widgets in a page, the hot pushes and quick boot up time, the debugging capabilities with state being retained right into a nested page, the performance snapshots right into the application, etc.,
I had my own skepticism around the early adoption and the risks, after using it for a few months on complex projects and ease with which it works, and addresses the complex requirements is awesome, commendable and liberating.
Flutter is developers' frenzy!
Definitely smart by Google to wait and polish this library before releasing it. Good point on the tooling being such a huge draw - we're looking forward to more practice there as well!
Absolutely! I agree that tooling, CI and CD are really really awesome. I look forward to when I can write, test, deploy and publish to the app stores automagically.
Hi, did you publish your flutter app???we are planning to switch from ionic to flutter but we are little bit afraid b/c flutter is fairly new...how was your overall development experience and will it be a safe bet to migrate our app to flutter right now???
@@zafarali3817 Flutter new or not, can't be worst than Ionic lol. Seriously, every time I see an Ionic app I try staying away from it. Switch to Flutter, even at 1.0 is much more stable and enjoyable for users than Ionic.
Yeah,you are right we've been using Ionic for 2 years and we have created alot of custom plugins to meet our requirements.we worked very hard to make our app stable and it is now stable ....but our team has decided to switch now....we are currently doing R&D to switch either to react-native or to flutter...so it isn't Ionic vs flutter rather I was asking how stable the Flutter is,compare to react-native...I forgot to mention it though...
Shove these frameworks go full chuck norris mode with c and c++
Nah, the point is - Chuck Norris made Google to create Flutter just by starring at it.
I experienced the trauma of RN when I created a commercial app as a freelancer. It is really bad.
RN is power
Can anyone help me to decide, I want to build a cross app in flutter which will be a shopping app to sell my own product. What are the cons I may face if I my business grow fast? Thanks
Flutter wont take off unless you can use Javascript libraries in Dart. Think about all the JS libraries that have to be ported over. Surprised Google doesnt see this
I am maybe not a geek after all. The girl behind was more grabbing my attention than the talk. Beautiful glasses ;-)
I love the honesty in this video.
Thanks Samson!
Humingbird is coming for Web. So Flutter will kill React Native :))
Flutter is much better than any other mobile dev platform
@@albertgeorge1619 Better this better that but yet people don't focus on becoming great and instead sing about platforms without necessarily being good and creative when it comes to using them.
It makes me sick. Either you use Flutter or React Native, very little if nothing at all does the user of your app care.
What about React Native Fabric? From what I heard it’s a re-write from the ground up to solve a lot of the issues RN is facing
Good question - we haven't played with that one yet but it did look interesting.
Man fuck it.... imma just gonna learn React Native. I dont see getting it fucked by google so 😂😂
I invite everyone to give Xamarin.Forms a look! We have hot reload now, cross-platform development (in one C#/XAML codebase), including iOS, Android, UWP, Mac, GTK, Tizen, etc. With .NET Standard simplifying code sharing, .NET Core now supporting self-contained deployments and Web Assembly gaining speed- things are getting exciting! We are getting closer to a day where we will be able to publish mobile apps to the web (thanks to Web Assembly). In fact, someone has done this, but the performance isn't quite there yet... One last thing; we are able to write native code right inside of our cross-platform solution. This is something I don't think a lot of people are aware of.
My team has been using Xamarin.Forms for enterprise applications for the last 2 years. The Microsoft ecosystem is much, much better than it has been in years past. I prefer strongly typed languages and VS though, so I may be biased!
If JavaScript wasn't such pain to debug, I'd be more enthusiastic about something like React Native... I am starting to learn Flutter later this month. We'll see how it goes. I am worried with it being a Google product for many of the same reasons other people have mentioned in the comments. Still worth a shot! The more tools we have- the better!
We're filming a video today where Andrew will be going over his experience building an app in Flutter.
Please let us know how your experience goes too!
Things that we don't understand is, flutter is not matured enough for Devs to use, since the community hasn't grown in this framework there is a possibility of someone getting stuck at a bug for days,
And the other things none of the frameworks tell you is , upgrading it's versions, upgrading a SDK or a framework version is so annoying when there are breaking channels in your code, because the documentation doesn't provide support for that most of the time and we need to figure it out by the community issues and resolves, just think a framework like flutter which doesn't have much community comes across a issue like this , you will be spending days and days trying to figure out how to fix it, BUT then again with time flutter will over take React Native since there is no translation between the native level and the framework, thus making it super fast (slightly exaggerated).
We've only run into a few cases where documentation or community support was lacking. However, we were able to look at the source code to figure out what we needed. I've had to do this on previous React Native projects too.
I would love to hear about what you are building with Flutter that makes you consider it not mature enough for development. We've been building some pretty incredible things and are pretty impressed so far.
Flutter is realy nice on ui side, but lack of packages to handle backround logic.
They look like aliens
If Flutter was released a few years ago, React Native would never get the hype it has today.
IF
flutter was there because react native was created...
I love React Native and this video make me feel interested in flutter. Let's see if it's so good.
I've been doing React Native for a couple of years now. I'd love to hear your take on Flutter if you get a chance. So far it seems extremely stable and fast. I really like what I see so far!
@@scttymn Same here, RN senior developer. Just started learning flutter a couple of weeks ago. I must admit the developer experience blew my mind.
Ok so u want to do if platform.os==='web' etc etc
Plus I hate dart syntax
The only huge difference between RN and Flutter is that Flutter is faster, however that will be over pretty soon, and Flutter will have nothing to offer over React Native.
Do you think the communities will continue to evolve at different paces, or will one surge ahead of the other with time?
@@Cremalab Its very hard to predict how communities will evolve and go from now, but JavaScript is definately bigger than Dart, and you can virtually find any type of lib for JS.
from pakistan:
i have been a native developer of ios and andorid for years! then i found React Native is a nice experience!
but i don't like the using flutter as its farely new! i coded an application in it! and i love the simplicity! but its not yet mature that much! and support is pretty low!
Agree dude, flutter still young and maybe few community but im not hate or dont like flutter.
Agreed! We like to keep an eye on new tech but not switch before really learning about the tool and the support behind it. Thanks for sharing your experience!
Suggestion, try Pacakge provider instead of BLoC, but both are legit
Thanks for the suggestion, J O! We'll check it out
Will Flutter kill React Native? the answer is NO.
The only advantage I see with flutter is (In theory) the performance, but there aren't many benchmarks out there to compare, and this point will change when the React Native new architecture is done (Fabric). Also, the community of Js/Web devs is really big and using React Native for a React.js dev is a very easy transition, I think both frameworks will share the market of Cross-Platform Apps it's only a matter of preference, some people prefer the Jsx syntax than the verbose way of Flutter, just look this example:
github.com/iampawan/FlutterWhatsAppClone/blob/master/lib/pages/status_screen.dart
It's horrible, it looks like a callback hell!
Better is not enough,Timing is more important,I love them both & I hate to be a full stack
"its just flutter update" ... easy said, but you have to keep in mind, the credit goes also to Dart, with a stable release dating to 2013 which now is 7 years. There have been a lot of changes until first release an solved a lot of design issues until now. So... when Java conquered the world it was only 4 years old but enterprise and taken seriously like 6 years old. Understanding, that there have been a lot of licensing issues with java and a demand on solving problems with the Javascript engine, I recommend to take Dart more serious than ever. Its by far the best thought through language that I know, from an OOP standpoint. People comming from a VB or python kind of language, may need some time to get familiar with it, but for a Java Developer not having to deal with swift, kotlin, Objective C, in particular with framework/styleguide definitions, flutter essentially being a Dart UseCase is a good deed. Workarounds like React Native, Cordoba, PhoneGap aim on helping Javascript Developers getting hands on some native development, but in my opinion is rather an inferior choice due to the fact, it never became a mature language. The initial idea about Javascript was engenious! thats why it became popular in the first place, Dart outgrew Javascript in a short time and was already by far superior in 2013.
Question for you boys. Ive been a sys network admin for over 10 years now and looking to branch into app/prgram design. Where do you guys recommend to start i understand theres react/flutter/ionic but what cores should i be understanding first. I havent realy done much with web design or databases, Just looking for a direction to start. What courses should i look at or should i just self teach? Any help is appreciated
Hey Matt, thanks for watching!
If you're looking into mobile application development, Scotty recommends these courses on Udemy (some of these happen to be on sale right now!)
Flutter & Dart: www.udemy.com/course/learn-flutter-dart-to-build-ios-android-apps/
Scotty learned React Native with this course here: www.udemy.com/course/learn-flutter-dart-to-build-ios-android-apps/
If you're leaning more toward the traditional side, it'd be a good idea to start with the basics -- html/CSS/JavaScript then move up to working in React or whatever frameworks you wish to move up to.
Jake highly recommends starting with this Codecademy course: www.codecademy.com/learn/learn-html
Here's a Web Developer Bootcamp that goes over everything and assumes nothing about your previous education on the subject. (Also on sale!)
www.udemy.com/the-web-developer-bootcamp/
Overall, our team has had really great experiences learning from sites such as Udemy, Codecademy, and Team Treehouse to name a few.
Hope this helped, we're happy to answer any further questions you have!
I'm electrical technician I don't have any background about any development stuff, but to be honest, I fucked up with my supervisor he so much crazy so that's why I want to learn how to create mobile apps and web apps. One of my friends he software engineer and he is really really good, he suggested me to start from react-native so I did and I'm going deep in navigation and I'm trying to master it, I found it little easy if you understand it, but the real problem is when I hear too many people told me to leave it and learn bla bla I feel like I'm really confused about what I learned and asking myself should I keep moving with RN or I have to learn something else like Flutter. I'm sorry about my bad English
Sorry to hear you got in over your head! If it helps: we all feel that way from time to time doing development work. It's a constant game of what to learn, what to master, and what to ignore. Keep at it and thanks for sharing!
What I would suggest is learn computer science fundamentals, you don't have to struggle to decide mobile app or web app or cross-platform. Trust me most of the software engineers don't know the core basic skills, But Once to practice and master Fundamentals and problem-solving, You don't need to ask/listen, anyone, you will make your own decision.
I come from native iOS development and React Native was so overwhelming, I got frustrated by the errors when I tried to run a simple app. Then I looked at Flutter, and oh boy, it feels so much better for me. I think RN is preferred by those who come from web dev background, while native mobile developers might prefer to use Flutter instead. I've only worked on both for a week, and I chose to work with Flutter finally. Dart language is just like Java or any other OO languages, so it's easier to learn for me.
Great point about the ease of transition from native development - thanks for sharing your experience!
I'm not a developer but even so, I'm pretty sure that Flutter will not kill react native. At least not in the foreseeable future. Right now react is pretty much dominating the web apps space (with Vue breathing down its neck) and having a framework that takes the familiarity of that code to mobile development is a huge thing. It saves businesses huge amounts of time and money. Flutter will only be in a position to "kill" react native if and when Web assembly (WASM) becomes a serious thing as it could potentially include support for the Dart programming language. If that happens the cards shift dramatically in favour of Flutter. But before than I just don't really see it happening.
It already works on desktops an embedded systems but poor on the web.
Flutter's biggest issue is Dart. An unfortunate choice.
2022, is Flutter KILLING React Native????
Hey, I'm new to app dev. Which one should I learn? Your view please
What did you choose bro ?
@@elendil4543 Flutter But I would recommend React native.
@@sanjay3291 thank you for taking time to answer me ✌️🤝
@@elendil4543 Welcome 😇
Flutter is awesome
Hi guys, First please close the bug of not detecting the devices in android studio..
I'm a self-proclaimed flutter guru. Ask me anything
trump or hillary?
Do you know the backend?
Sir, teach me flutter
When Coronavirus pandemic will end?
Thanks for the short video. I was just done with the database end on a project in RN, Hehe just thought twice about it.
Kudos, you are very honest.
I am wondering after 20 months of this video, what is happening to flutter. I personally LOVE flutter, but it seems not that popular as expected and RN is still strong. At least in job market.
Want to get an opinion on this all day I've been watching videos of using AR and VR in the respective frameworks. Flutter AR seems not as advanced as Viro React atm but idk much about this field , does anyone else have an opinion on this I would love to get some feedback from people who have maybe used both or just general thoughts please thanks :)
Flutter has really caught my eye because I was told there is much more of an ease of use and the widgets are excellent! Question? Has the flutter team fixed the stutter issues? I think I won't touch this peace of tech unless those issues have been resolved.
The stutter issues is the only reason I’m still on the fence about flutter. The fact it is still an issue in 2023 means to me they are not able to fix it.
@@iykazorji8171 Wow, that is disappointing. I hadn't touched the technology yet. Been working on Django with Python and some JavaScript. I always wanted to try out flutter. I hear your able to deploy your product quickly. But if this issue still exists then I won't even consider it, thanks for sharing.
can someone tell why is xamarin not liked by the hybird community ?? i think it's great and the most mature of all of them also UI building is very easy compared to the other hybird frameworks
Xamarin definitely has the edge on most frameworks due to its age, but it doesn't seem to have the traction that React Native, Ionic, Flutter, or other frameworks do, at least not right now. A big blocker for us is having to write everything in .NET since we're mainly a React & JS shop. Any thoughts on other reasons Xamarin doesn't really share the limelight?
Have you ever tried xamarin on a Mac? I used to try working on a xamarin project. One developer was using windows while I’m on a mac. It was mostly a pain for me because the project wont even build without errors everywhere whenever I pulled new commits from my friend. The errors come from the IDE, because things should’ve worked okay. He ended up working on it alone. Then after flutter came, my boss told me to recreate it using flutter. So much easier.
At 8:20 the guy in the middle says his Dev Buddy is switching to Flutter, and he has been native only. Maybe it isn't understood that well, but, Dart/Flutter is native. When built for release, Dart is actually compiled. It is only running in a VM/Interpreted while in Debug/Development builds.
Hey Don! Guy in the middle here. What I meant was that he was against any cross-platform, non-swift, third-party, cross platform solutions for mobile development. He was so impressed by the speed and approach of Flutter that he became a believer. Thanks for the feedback, in hindsight I could have clarified that a bit more.
The flavor of the Month = Google Code base & product. This alone turns me away from it. I learn the hard way by learning Angular 1, 2 and thank god React was an easy to learn situation. Regardless no one should ever assume Google is making it easy for developers unless they get something in return.
There is a big difference between a product being backed by Google and an open source developer library / toolkit being backed by Google. The latter tend to have much more staying power.