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Vande Sangeetam EP28 : Chintana - Math in Music
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- Опубліковано 18 жов 2021
- #nvijaysiva #vandesangeetam #music
Vande Sangeetam!
To music, I take a bow. It gives us so much, from rejuvenating our spirits and cleansing our mind, to a sense of physical well being and a definite spiritual direction if we choose. Sometime during our life, we need to prostrate before this power. We attempt here to share all that it has given us- Composers, ragas, thoughts on puranas. We also try to look at what we should do, individually and collectively, to ensure that its purity and profound beauty are passed on to the generation next.
Recorded in natural settings at Kalakshetra campus, Chennai.
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Intro Music: Sri K Arun Prakash
N Vijay Siva - Vocal
R K Sriramkumar - Violin
N Manoj Siva - Mridangam
Intro Graphics,Recording & Post Production:
Pramod Gokhale & Akshatha Gokhale
This is very much true that yesteryear greats like Semmangudi Mama, Madurai Mani Iyervaal etc did not indulge in mathematics even though they knew it and just sang Sarvalaghu Kalpanaswaram which is even more tough than pre set mathematical patterns and they sang Carnatic Music till the end of their life. In fact singing Sarvalaghu Kalpanaswaram is more tougher than singing a pre set mathematical pattern which is easy to sing. Nowadays many people are singing these pre set mathematical patterns as the trend of today and in the sake of singing the patterns, they forsake raga bhavam and lose the beauty of Carnatic Music. I was reminded of your guru Mahavidwan Dk Jayaraman Sir who had the stamp on Vinata Suta Vahana and used to sing Swarams in Mata Bhedamane the way you sang Swarams in the end of this session. A very eye opening session for those who indulge in mathematical patterns a lot.
Superb analysis Bro.
One of the boldest videos ever! Kudos sir. Love your frankness on the applause bit
Sir you have hit upon a point which is staring us in the face, the pre set patterns, the so called self appointed pandits who we can only applaud because thankfully the rain of patterns is over
Now that you showed the difference my mind and heart yearns for the wonderful music of the era where raga bhava ruled the music and we got great satisfaction and dhanyate after listening to the music
Lucid explanations. Thank you.
Let me at the outset say that I am a "Kelvi Gnani" without swara gnanam. But I can distinguish good music from not so good one. One of my very favourite musician is the great MDR. Vijay Sir, now after listening to your
MATHS, I realized why I got tired of swara rendering in some concerts; that must be due to preset mathematical pattern. Thank you, Sir, for your elucidation.🙏🙏
Very well explained. Good advice for the upcoming young musicians. Namaskaram.
Classic Anna , absolutely enjoyed this video.thank you for sharing such thoughts with us . Best wishes , ranjani
Sowkyam is the key even for manodharmam I understand. Good examples given. Thank u
wow very nicely explained sir thanks a lot
Namaste Sir!
We already have non-tongue-twisting and non-teeth-breaking mathematics in our carnatic music.
These beautiful mathematical patterns are called Yathis.
Yathi is an arrangement of the syllables to give an almost visual shape to music.
Yathis can be of six types.
Sama yathi, Vishama Yathi, Mridanga Yathi, VEda Madhyama Yathi, GOpucha Yathi, SrOthOvAka Yathi.
1. Sama Yathi:
All the syllables are equal in number for each Aksharam.
2. Vishama Yathi:
The syllables used may give rise to any shape.
3. Mridanga Yathi:
The syllables are arranged to be smaller at both the ends and broader in the middle
4. VEda Madhyama Yathi:
The syllables are arranged to be broader at both ends and smaller at the center.
5. GOpucha Yathi
The syllables are arranged like the tail of a cow - broad at the beginning and tapering at the end.
6. SrOthOvAka Yathi
The syllables are arranged like the flow of a river, small in the beginning and widening as it flows.
Namasté Sir
Strutir mAtA laya pitA.
Our music has built-in layam already.
Too many hurdles in the form of restrictions laid by mathematics will surely transform the musical feast into a hurdle race.
Sarva lagu is most natural and therefore the most pleasant way to sing and play on instruments.
Mathematics, if employed, must be used sparingly like salt or pickles.
Otherwise the concert becomes a tiring and often a boring formula which will become stale sooner or later.
Great explanation 🙏👌👌👌
Very nice to listen true kalapramanam it self rithim with maths
Fantastic,no words to describe the frank discussion and sharing yr amazing knowledge.Pranams to a maestro. 🙏🙏🙏
It is a pleasure to listen to the singing of Semmangudi and MMI even so many years after they passed away. Can any of the mathematical singers match their laya and ragabhava?
Yet another educative episode...especially for people like us who haven't 'learnt' Carnatic music.
If performers take to pre-set patterns both in svara prastara and neraval, it serves the purpose of creating popular demand for excitement and novelty over deep classicism, secure popularity and command best of terms of engagement. Maths employed might have been tough for past generations-three but for the present generation of algorithm minds it is simple. What's the reality? Those great maestros and maestros who valued raga bhavam over laya svara and sahithya bhavam suffered ignominy and couldn't afford even 'insurance', as their career never took off! It was percussionists who contributed to this development. Those great percussionists who gave laya support to main performers did not receive the support but all those 'indulged' and ensured pre- meditated applause achieved recognition and rewards. This is one of the serious issues on meritocracy Vs populism.
Vidwan Sri. Vijaya Shiva, Please make a session on Flute TR Mahalingam. We are grateful to you for your excellent demonstration regarding Karnatak classical music/musicians.
Excellent..... Everything truly said 👌
Yes. Very true. Not only in carnatic music, even Beethoven created music by listening to sound, rhythms and patterns.
Superb topic anna. 🙏🏻 Namaskarams 🙏🏻
Music, Mathematics and Grammar of any language or any art follow strict patterns.
Maybe that is why a person who is good in anyone of these three, is automatically good in the other two as well 🙂
A beautiful educative program. Very much useful for the music lovers, learners and researchers
Liked very much
Very educative video emphasizing the importance of Sarva laghu in swara singing. Thankyou Vijay Siva Sir for enlightening us.
Sir, why I couldn't find episodes after this? Pl hrlp
A very very educative presentation for all of us and made interesting till the very end. Thank you Sir.
Great Great even I don't know much on this . Always hear good Carnatic songs .
Whether the mathematics is preset for the swarms or not, they fall into some
mathematical pattern.Just as any positive integer can be broken up into prime
factors,it can also be written as the sum of smaller numbers called partitioning
except that the former has a uniqueness while the latter can be done in many ways.
What I understand is that the creativity in swara pattern follows the later process of
partitioning, utilizing the multiple possibilities.
A new look into Svara singing. Quite educative.
I think when people say "there is very high level mathematics in music", it is kind of an overstatement. After all, we are doing just doing basic calculations. Not some tensor calculus, group theory level stuff
HaHaHa
Lol!
Like there is the English proverb "Greek and Latin to me" to convey something was beyond one's comprehension, there is also a tendency to call anything that one fails to figure as "higher mathematics".
For instance, basic trigonometry and elementary algebra is higher mathematics for me! One of my friends struggles with any arithmetical operation involving a two-digit number. Even 9+11 is higher mathematics to him!
So, musicians striving for complicated mathematical patterns to impress their audience are actually using a road roller to iron an handkerchief!
Are all episodes over? Did not see a new one this week. Really, really missing the show!
Excellent educative episode.
Super analysis and Super Presentation . !!
Rhythm and beats are taught in alankarams with talams. "Preset mathematical pattern" nice coined word.
Mridangam is more maths.
Proportion of maths has to be reduced... 🎯
Agreed..
MVI used to say taalam will make you a pauper not a singer.
People will have premature death if they indulge too much in maths...????
Your vocal chords will spoil if you indulge too much on upper octave and over strain..not by maths.
Maths is something to do with mind,..
For singing mathematical pattern one has to rehearse in mind not with vocal chords.
Chance is that you may go off the Shruti due to over concern on laya..
Never never never one has to take a pension just because of maths. Possibly one can go eccentric not the other way..
Trichy JV sir had a diametrically opposite view. He did not prematurely book his pension..on the contrary he lived with the pension of AIR to 82 years + teaching, singing, giving lecdems..
He sang with perfect Shruti till 78 or so..
Syama Sastrigal..
Lalagudi sir, Alathur Bros, .. Did they have a premature death of music...?
Sanjay sub, Sandeep...Are they heading for a disaster?
On the contrary most of the bhagavatas of sampradaya bhajan who have nothing to do with laya have premature death of their vocal chords.. that's because of Divya namam being sung for more than 12 hours at a stretch through out the night in upper octave..
Let us not discourage maths in Carnatic music under the camouflage that it will bring daridram, premature pension etc..
My verdict is that above everything else music is more on bhaava.. To become one with PARABRAHMAM.
When you sing ... Did it bring tears involuntarily from audience and you..?
Was it divine..?
Did you move one step towards Nada brahman..?
That is all..
All your expertise, vidvamsam take a back seat..
இதயம் கனிந்ததா..?
கல் கரைந்ததா..
இறைவன் மகிழ்ந்தானா..? அவ்வளவே.
You become one with the source .. music is a pathway... let us immensely immerse
Pre set mathematics. Really liked it and affecting the natural flow very true. Nice examples and analysis and very thorough in putting forth your views the best possible way. Hats off and it had layam in it
.
This is very frustrating that I had to refresh the channel multiple times to see where this week's episode is. Not fair to not upload episode 29 all of a sudden when avid viewers from week 1 are anticipating. Hope everything is okay and only some technical glitches of some sort. Humble namaskarams.
What happened to Vande Sangeetham ?
🙏😍👌🤩🙏thank you 🙏
Namasthey
வனஜாக்ஷி ரோஇஇராஆஆமஅஅநே கல்யாணிவர்ணம்
ultimate. pension scheme :)
I don't agree completely agree with this