What’s Your Ism? Ep 9. feat Shalin Maria Lawrence on Dalit Christians in anti-caste discourse
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- Опубліковано 6 тра 2024
- Caste and untouchability owe their origins to brahmanical Hinduism. But caste oppression is not restricted to the Hindu community. Dalit Christians and Dalit Muslims face challenges in asserting their rights and demanding affirmative action.
In this two-part episode on What's Your Ism, Sudipto Mondal speaks to Ambedkarite author Shalin Maria Lawrence and sociologist-professor Khalid Aniz Ansari about the complexities of anti-caste politics among Christians and Muslims in South Asia.
In part one, Lawrence talks about caste oppression in the Christian community, Periyar, caste identity, political lobbying in Tamil Nadu, the POA Act, and laws to protect the rights of minorities at the intersection of caste.
She also recounts her lived experiences of discrimination in church. “Within my church, I’m an untouchable. Within the church my ancestors built. The church I stopped going to. For generations, only Dalit women have been sweeping the church. Why?”
Watch.
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Praise the LORD!!!
INSPIRING! Shalin Maria Lawrence! Courageous, brave, sincere to the conversation, consciousness is very Good! I appreciate You, I admire You! Bless You!
Wonderful Maria Lawrence. God is with you. Go ahead... I will support you.
CASTEISM CORRUPTION Filled with Hypocrisy Filled awakened today and filled the mindset of India.
Kisses to You Maria Lawrence! We should acquire the knowledge like You about us !
Good to hear You ! Sweet at heart to be true!!!
Christian should better go to Isreal and live a happy life
If govt takes action to completely mechanising scavenging work, the problem of discrimination could be lessened. But no govt I think push forward this essential reform
There is one more difference between the caste system of the Hindus and that of the Muslims and Christians. The caste system among the Hindus has the foundation of religion. The castes in other religions have no sanction of their religion. If Hindus proclaim [that they intend] to disband the caste system, their religion will come in the way. On the other hand, if the Muslims and Christians start movements for abolishing the caste system in their religion, their religion will not obstruct. Hindus cannot destroy their castes without destroying their religion. Muslims and Christians need not destroy their religion for eradication of the castes. Rather, their religion will support such movements to a great extent. - Dr Bodhisattva Babasaheb Ambedkar..
So true ❤💯
“Dalit” Christian - caste identity being such a cash cow - Converted “Minority” religious minions retains the very “Dalit”Qualification / identity they claim to bash by converting🤭 ( to keep encashing reservation affirmative action benefits ) To virtue signal the “Hindus” keep quoting Ambedkar , divisive identity dravidianism politics patrons in the garb of reformists like periyaar - such a dubious struggle of elitists for equality & social justice paid , sponsored by George soros and the likes of Capitalists & Corporates . Holy Nexus of so called social justice warriors ( aka academic political & media hypocrites )
Dr Ambedkar is so conveniently quoted to justify a converted Christians compulsions n motives to retain “Dalit” identity . While Dr Ambedkar had the moral honesty to practice what he preached - he embrassed Buddhism kniwing fully well about its “class” less ness though its another offshoot of Sanathan Dharma, he embrassed his new religion/ Dharma “wholely “ & outmost sincerity , unlike these self appointed Dalit activists sheading crocodile tears while playing both minority victim card & Dalit identity politics in Tamil Naad where likes of periyaar very well showed how to play convoluted identity divisive politics - “dravidinisem”.
Varna ( which is not by birth but by Guna Personality or individual vasanas / tendencies ) got mixed up with social class system like any where else in the world ( which Portuguese then English in Bharath’s contests started calling Caste ) and tagged as the social evil inherent ONLY in Bharath aka India’s Culture Sanathan Dharma and it’s one of the many offshoot Hinduism - such a colonial ideological servitude rhat Elitists academia still make a living out of dishing out those Critical Caste theory . Else where shows the courtesy to call such a phenomena as social class divide. New gen Wokeism very conveniently Mixing up critical Race theory with an universal class divide phenomena to label it as Critical caste theories thus to weaponise it in the socially elitist spaces of Acadmic & corporate circles - what an Oximoron Dalit Christian Dalit Muslim . Thanks to Dr A thereisnt a Dalit Buddhist movement YET !
Then dismantle casteism in Islam and Christianity, why they are demanding reservations
There was so much here about Dalit and caste politics that many of us don't see reported in the mainstream media.
The problem is that these issues are becoming siloed and separate from bigger questions of what it means to have a larger national ( Indian - Bharatiya identity) apart from that of one's caste and community.
Are they the same? Or are they seeking to be different? The answers to these questions matter in the long run.
Shalin is a forceful speaker with convictions born out of experience and deep reflection.
But one notices shortcomings in some of her proposals being put forward as remedies. While they may serve an immediate need, will they be truly beneficial in the long term? How much thinking has gone into second and third order effects of these interventions down the line in a rapidly changing national and global world order?
Is reservation the only way to combat exploitation and marginalization to move socially disadvantaged communities forward?
How can one seek to erase caste boundaries on the one hand through equal participation , yet insist on wanting to retain separate and strong ethnic- community identities on the other and the rights/ privileges that go with them? Are these mutually compatible?
Rather than turning this into a perpetual battle for identity recognition and amelioration, will it not be more fruitful to think of creating policies that allow certain affected groups to move forward through offering them more opportunities, but without seeking to control outcomes. Aptitude, capacity and natural skills of individuals and groups should not be sacrificed or demeaned at the altar of social progress and upliftment.
This is the real challenge for both politicians and activists to figure out.
One simple way to do this would be to offer high quality primary, secondary and vocational education and training through government supported institutions to every Indian.
Once people, regardless of their caste or community, become proficient in an area of life that can engage them purposefully and, in the process, be of value to the larger society, we may begin to see the erosion of these caste - ethnic fault lines quite naturally with time.
But is this what the social justice movement seeks to attain? I think not. It has become a cause and a religion unto itself.
It's ironic to think that the highest aspiration of the oppressed is to eventually become like the oppressor through using the same playbook but hoping for a different outcome ~
A fresh breath of air - Your , “unbiased” analysis in a politically motivated , academically convoluted , socially weaponised sponsored social justice, equality struggles in media & academic world 👏
I am.a Christian and I have never seen or heard about casteism in Christianity. 😮
Then you have a lot to learn.
Even if you have we don't care you will not get reservation and raul Antonio will not be PM.😅
It's a new way to beg for Reservation since they are afraid of working hard
@@vickyislife4050 You are a shameless chrisanghi. Or maybe just a sanghi.
Many of these people come from Hindu background and few will carry on such mentality even after converting to other faith.
Amazing interview! Shalin's open and forthright observations on the hidden casteism that exists in Tamilnadu are very much true, in a Tamilnadu which is projected as a progressive state as far a social justice is concerned. சிரம் தாழ்த்தி வணங்குகிறேன்!
Thank you Sudipto for being an empathetic listener, giving Shalin the space to express herself freely, and for taking this interview.
Wow! That was revelation for a (Duh!) shurfa!S'thing about proximate castes to preempt annihilation. All power to Sharon
Please release this on the podcast feed!
I'm from Meghalaya we never have dalit Christian castism we all the same.
Problem in North east is not caste.
There is casteism in Mangalore Christians. I have witnessed it. In many instances it manifests in the slurs Roman catholics use in conversations. You come to hear some of the worst de-humanising and de-grading things in speech.
Sorry and disgusted to hear that. Casteism and Class are more important to them than Christianity. Or civic values and humanity.
True, the Bamons among mangalore south kanara Christians glorify themselves. The history of Charodis, Gowdi catholics in the region is erased or not spoken about.
They are just Christians for name sake. They are not grounded in the word of God.
Ms Maria Lawrence , Just talk about this issue in Jesus Youth or to the Christian Bishop House . Which is possible for you !
A dalit living in a hindu society will always face discrimination irrespective of his/her religion. I know that untouchability doesn't exist inside churches but it definitely exists outside of its gates.
Why call yourself dalit once you are a Christian
This was such an informative podcast, it is very important to bring these voices to the mainstream, I had no idea that this much atrocities have been done on the least privileged SC & ST communities, I will definitely read more on this. How could someone kill someone for asking rice I fail to understand.
Maria is a intellectual community (paraya)
EVK Sampath was his very own brother’s Son
As a christians it is the first time I heard of it and shame to those chriatians that such discrimination happens.
So many factual errors less than 20 minutes into the video. Better expected from "good academic voices" or from "good news platforms ". 1. Pranab mukherjee was not an RSS man. He merely attended the RSS vijayadashami celebrations. He lived and died a congressman. 2. Malcolm x didn't believe in the Bible, Martin Luther King Jr did. 3. To say hinduism is 200 years old and is a british construct is frankly an argument that should belong to a conspiracy theorist's amusing rant rather than an intellectual conversation. 4. A hindu is defined as a person who is not a "christian muslim or parsi" sikhs are hindu as per the constitution or legal definition itself. So yet another glaring error. 5. Rajendra Prasad did, like all presidents, act upon the advice of the union cabinet. That is how parliamentary democracy works. He cannot and could not have taken individual decisions. To paint him as some dictator with terrifying designs is quite laughable.
I am worried for the viewers if this is the content allowed to pass....
I think she is confusing about ethnicity and religion and also about jobs and profession. She said that only dalit are sweeping. In fact the church gave them a salary for cleaning the church. There is no untouchability or forbidden of any one to do the same during the church service. There is no high or low caste to enter the church.
It had tobe a wire interview. .There is no bias in these religions. . .there are boundaries though. .a group either common denominator builds its own church. .
You are a Christian or you are a Dalit. You can't be both.
Why can't she be...?
Praying for you dear..
I don't know any Christian who is separated because of some old caste by church . That is a wrong practice conduct by people with wrong personality. In Christianity there is no space for such division. For Christ seeks equality.
Never Fall for this Misinterpretation.
I mean earnest action not lip service
Caste is tribe/ clan identity. Stop whining about it.
Your understanding on Christianity is quite shallow to say the least.
Shalin needs to understand Periyar deeply, he fought for the welfare of women, unshackle from the varna system.
How?
By calling and branding a particular section of community woman as whores?🤧
Saying casteism exists after joining Abrahamic religion.... Defeats the purpose of joining the new religion. And u make it look like Abraham religion are powerless against. Moreover ambedhkar didn't endorse abrahamic religion.
No such thing as Dalit Christian.
True
No one knows whether it's in practice in or not , it is better that Youth Groups and Committes of Church talk about this issue and chat with this women to solve the issue .
political Christian .....in TN dominant castes (which form the bulk of Dravidian Party support base) gets into caste based fights with SC/ST ......BJP is hardly present in TN .....Yet spewing venom on BJP ......somebody who is really interested in Welfare of Dalit Christians will accept reality and fight Dravidian Parties
Between the two evils.... Dravidian ideology is better. So don't do anything.When sc can't create leaders it's not a good idea
There is no such thing as a Dalit Xian...either you're a Dalit or a Xian.
I have seen this person in neeya naana show, always trying to push western outdated thoughts on to gullible tamil audience
Western outdated?... 😂
Dalit Christian..
Basically new way to beg for Reservation
Stupidity, check how many of Christians use reservation that is provided when comparing with other communities in India .😂
Nahi degi...reservation 😅
Already reservation h ...cry . Many states are governed by Christians....go cry. We are integral part of this country. You can just shut up and stop religious hatred
Stupidity, check how many of Christians use reservation that is provided when comparing with other communities in India .😂
She is a troll material!.😂
The biggest problem of pasmanda muslims is elite class of muslims not the BJP😂😂
No Reservation to Dalit christians.
Don't steal reservation of SC ST AND OBC.