In the 1970's I attended an FBI 40 hour handgun course. Out to 7 yds they insisted that we step to the left and shoot from the hip. I should mention that by stepping to the left makes sense because 90% of people are right handed and a large number of thugs will flinch and shoot lower left. I had been point shooting at eye level since I went on the force in 1961. One of the FBI instructors was a nice guy but the other guy was a cocky know it all who keep telling me I was doing it wrong but my shots were always in a decent center mass group. Long story short the cocky guy said he would buy all of us steak dinner if anyone shot a perfect score on the final night shoot at the end of the week. This was under low light, but I could still see the sights clearly. We were to shoot 50 rounds at 5,7,15,25 & 50 yards. I barely missed one shot. When we went down range to score the targets, the nice FBI agent was by my side and we saw I had one near miss. The nice agent yelled for his partner to come look at this as he covered the near miss with his thumb. Cocky's face looked like he was about to go into shock. His partner kept the miss covered until his partner finally caught on. I should mention I had been training with Clyde Thomson, a national champion handgun shooter in the 1920's, a Coast Guard Commander who wrote the Coast Guard handgun manual and Chief US Marshall in my hometown. I had previously won five trophies, including a 1st. place timed fire at the Illinois State PoliceI invitational in 1963. I really wasn't that good, but State Police Officers and other Police Dept's all came I think more to party than pistol shoot. I'm 86 years old now and still enjoy handgun shooting at the rate of about 1000 rounds a month. I had my first handgun, a Colt Woodsman .22 when I was 12 years old. My dad was on the Police Shooting team, a really good shot and taught me shooting and firearms safety.
Ah,, tribal legends of the 70s & 80s. Unfortunately, many of the poor training techniques and myths survive today, especially in smaller departments. Keep up the good fight,, and Good Hunting,,
That is so funny I was taught the same tactic at a CENT trg day 10 yrs later and I always thought this tactic can not be as accurate. Thanks for this video I always thought this was wrong but finally someone with experience to set the record straight. Thanks for these video I really enjoy the stories.
In 1976 I was sent to MacDill AFB for summer field training prior to commissioning. We went through pistol qualification with the S&W Model 15 revolver and rifle qualification with the M16. I earned the expert ribbon with the revolver and was well on my way to doing the same with the M16 until we entered the final shooting stage. Here we were instructed to hip fire the rifle while looking at the man-sized silhouette. Any adjustments were to be made by moving our support arm up and down the handguard. I wasted several rounds in this fruitless attempt, then out of disgust I popped the rifle to my shoulder, took quick aim, and put the rest of my shots in the A zone. I wish I had done this initially because my wasted shots had cost me expert qualification and a pin to add to my ribbon. I never forgot the experience or the lesson it taught me that not all training is done correctly, nor are all orders the right ones. Sometimes you need to apply your own judgment and determine if there is a better course of action. If there is, take it and damn the repercussions.
In 1968 our training was bullseye shooting. Over the course of my 30 yr career I was forced into a shooting three times w/my issued revolver. Only once did I have time to sight the gun and that was taking out a hostage taker in a well light motel lobby. The reason for not using sights in the other instances was two fold: no time & too dark (no night sights back then).
Funny. We all had the same training and same DI’s slapping you if you used your sights; However, once I was out of the academy. I decided to use my sights on the bonus but till the day I retired I still did not use my sights except at the barricade out of this training believe it or not. For the combat no big deal but for the Bonus it was impossible to go beyond sharpshooter. Great story …thanks for sharing!
There are things that happened twenty eight years ago at the academy and on FTO that no way could any instructor get away with. These recruits would be curled up in a little ball sucking their thumbs. I actually put down on the weekly summation that this recruit "was so stupid, he doesn't belong here." I got called on the deck for that, telling me I couldn't say that. Why not I asked, he is stupid and he's going to get himself or worse, someone else killed. Well, I left it. He fortunately quit a few weeks later. Today, that would never fly.
In the 1970's I attended an FBI 40 hour handgun course. Out to 7 yds they insisted that we step to the left and shoot from the hip. I should mention that by stepping to the left makes sense because 90% of people are right handed and a large number of thugs will flinch and shoot lower left. I had been point shooting at eye level since I went on the force in 1961. One of the FBI instructors was a nice guy but the other guy was a cocky know it all who keep telling me I was doing it wrong but my shots were always in a decent center mass group. Long story short the cocky guy said he would buy all of us steak dinner if anyone shot a perfect score on the final night shoot at the end of the week. This was under low light, but I could still see the sights clearly. We were to shoot 50 rounds at 5,7,15,25 & 50 yards. I barely missed one shot. When we went down range to score the targets, the nice FBI agent was by my side and we saw I had one near miss. The nice agent yelled for his partner to come look at this as he covered the near miss with his thumb. Cocky's face looked like he was about to go into shock. His partner kept the miss covered until his partner finally caught on. I should mention I had been training with Clyde Thomson, a national champion handgun shooter in the 1920's, a Coast Guard Commander who wrote the Coast Guard handgun manual and Chief US Marshall in my hometown. I had previously won five trophies, including a 1st. place timed fire at the Illinois State PoliceI invitational in 1963. I really wasn't that good, but State Police Officers and other Police Dept's all came I think more to party than pistol shoot. I'm 86 years old now and still enjoy handgun shooting at the rate of about 1000 rounds a month. I had my first handgun, a Colt Woodsman .22 when I was 12 years old. My dad was on the Police Shooting team, a really good shot and taught me shooting and firearms safety.
Ah,, tribal legends of the 70s & 80s. Unfortunately, many of the poor training techniques and myths survive today, especially in smaller departments. Keep up the good fight,, and Good Hunting,,
That is so funny I was taught the same tactic at a CENT trg day 10 yrs later and I always thought this tactic can not be as accurate. Thanks for this video I always thought this was wrong but finally someone with experience to set the record straight. Thanks for these video I really enjoy the stories.
In 1976 I was sent to MacDill AFB for summer field training prior to commissioning. We went through pistol qualification with the S&W Model 15 revolver and rifle qualification with the M16. I earned the expert ribbon with the revolver and was well on my way to doing the same with the M16 until we entered the final shooting stage. Here we were instructed to hip fire the rifle while looking at the man-sized silhouette. Any adjustments were to be made by moving our support arm up and down the handguard. I wasted several rounds in this fruitless attempt, then out of disgust I popped the rifle to my shoulder, took quick aim, and put the rest of my shots in the A zone. I wish I had done this initially because my wasted shots had cost me expert qualification and a pin to add to my ribbon. I never forgot the experience or the lesson it taught me that not all training is done correctly, nor are all orders the right ones. Sometimes you need to apply your own judgment and determine if there is a better course of action. If there is, take it and damn the repercussions.
In 1968 our training was bullseye shooting. Over the course of my 30 yr career I was forced into a shooting three times w/my issued revolver. Only once did I have time to sight the gun and that was taking out a hostage taker in a well light motel lobby. The reason for not using sights in the other instances was two fold: no time & too dark (no night sights back then).
Colonel Rex Applegate book Kill Or Get Killed is what a lot of this comes from it would have been very popular around this time.
Funny. We all had the same training and same DI’s slapping you if you used your sights; However, once I was out of the academy. I decided to use my sights on the bonus but till the day I retired I still did not use my sights except at the barricade out of this training believe it or not. For the combat no big deal but for the Bonus it was impossible to go beyond sharpshooter. Great story …thanks for sharing!
Thats an amazing story!
Pat Rogers(RIP), told a similar story, about the NYPD academy
Thank you sir!
The good ol' days. Oh, brother!🙄
There are things that happened twenty eight years ago at the academy and on FTO that no way could any instructor get away with. These recruits would be curled up in a little ball sucking their thumbs. I actually put down on the weekly summation that this recruit "was so stupid, he doesn't belong here." I got called on the deck for that, telling me I couldn't say that. Why not I asked, he is stupid and he's going to get himself or worse, someone else killed. Well, I left it. He fortunately quit a few weeks later. Today, that would never fly.
The good old days really weren't that good lol