Praise the LORD, for Truth prevailed! Ellen White said: Those who feel called out to join the movement in favor of woman's rights and the so-called dress reform might as well sever all connection with the third angel's message. The spirit which attends the one cannot be in harmony with the other. The Scriptures are plain upon the relations and rights of men and women.{1T 421.4}
***** GOD is always in control. However we should not do forget that GOD has given to each and every on of us the GOD GIVEN right to choose. That is why GOD Spoke through Joshua to GODS people and said, "And if it seem evil to you to serve the LORD, CHOOSE YOU, this day whom you will serve. Joshua 24:15.
It surpasses my imagination that a vote was taken to bring this topic to a NO. Since when are core doctrines voted upon? This is a serious weakness and lack of stability and ground from the SDA church to which I belong to from birth. I would have never imagined that such an event would have taken place regardless of whom would think it was OK to do it, ranks or positions aside this whole issue was disturbing and quite humiliating. No wonder why so many people are leaving through those doors never to come back. The more I watched the video the more I thought to myself what is going on? The fact that this issue took such an importance and that it was even considered to take a 100% in the given case it would have been voted in favor just blows my mind.... This is nothing more than a mockery and a huge disgrace. I am ashamed that this event took place.
God works and manifests Himself to particular individual heart of somebody, same Satan do the so. it not the purpose of voting on the bible but people expressed how God work in their hearts and how he led them to understand the scriptures. Remember since before Jesus said that.. in the church there is weeds and wheat.
@@elderbrath3310. Amen do not die as an SDA, but die with Jesus in your heart. allow Him to guide you in every thought then finally will He tell you is which church he built
Since the church is voting on biblical principles, why not vote on ending the scourge of abortion in Adventist hospitals for profit. Abortions are an abomination before God and clearly unbiblical. Can you really claim to be God's Remnant church if you are breaking the Sixth Commandment as a church? Thou shalt not kill. If you break one commandment you break them all. Sound familiar?
There are no winner and losers here. That was the highlight of his speech. It was the decision of the Church.The SDA Church. NO APLAUSE. That's my Church. I am proudly Adventist to my last molecule. God bless you all.
They did not vote on women being ordination, the vote was a play on words - the question was: "Should the SDA Divisions have the choice to ordain women". If the vote was on Women's Ordination the question would have been :should women be ordained in the SDA Church. a big difference in the question that was actually given to the delegates. The delegates were given poor information to vote on. Listen to the question that was asked. The SDA Church has still not voted on Women's Ordination
There's nothing to vote on, the Bible is clear. Woman should not be ordained, if anyone feels differently about it they need to present their argument through scripture.
I am certain that women's ordination will be pressed again in the future, very possibly at the 2020 General Conference in Indianapolis Indiana. Let people know that after three failed attempts to pass this issue, if they try yet again, that it is a spirit of rebellion that motivates those who press the issue. It is also worth observing that nothing in scripture even hints at a role for women as pastors/elders. Yet let us not forget that many other ministries are open to women. Let every one fulfill the roles for which God has fitted them. Let's stay focused on proclaiming the Good News of Christ to a dying world! I pray that God will continue to guide us and instruct us according to His Word, His Spirit, as we prepare for 2020. I live in Indiana and pray that I'll be able to attend as a delegate. I'm almost 50 and may not get another opportunity to participate at this level, certainly not so close to home. May God bless you and if he is willing, I may meet someone who's seen this video too.
If you have no men at your church, the Head Deaconess can, within the guideposts of the Spirit of Prophecy, perform weekly duties such as delivering the sermon, or leading the worship. The only duties that would require an ordained Pastor without exception would be officiating the Lord's Supper, performing marriages, and conducting baptisms. Pastor Doug Batchelor makes the case for this at ua-cam.com/video/7_bUUOfS4xA/v-deo.html
I only hope we will not have to vote on the this topic again because if we were following the bible and the spirit of prophecy will would not have to vote on issue such as this in which we are well aware of the answer. Thank God for the result because making a comparison with other churches that have ordain women pastors have become infested with homosexual pastors and members. However if these individuals ( homosexuals & lesbians) sincerely repent of their ways He God is willing and able to forgive them. God hate the sin but love the individual, we too love all human but hate the sins. We should strive to always to attain the character of our God and the be light bearers to the world.
Wayne Loukim I would be interested in statistics linking WO to lgbt acceptance. I am sure that the most liberal churches who legitimize lgbt involvement in church would also allow WO. But I am much less sure that WO necessarily leads to lgbt acceptance in the church.
This vote was not about women's ordination. It was about who gets to decide whether or not they want to ordain women as ministers. This was about whether power is to be centralized or decentralized. Ellen White got into with the GC after the 1902 GC when it was voted the first time to decentralize the power in the church away from the GC President through the creation of Union Conferences. EGW applauded that move which allowed for decision-making to take place closer to the action and made the GC a little weaker. The GC didn't want to let go of the power and Sr. White told them they were in essence resisting God's will.I worry that continuing to invest this kind of power in the hands of a central administration, it's going to make our church more rigid and less flexible when, as it sure will, the world moves to shut us down. It's a lot harder to knock down more independent unions, conferences and local church than it is if all you have to do is swoop down on the GC offices to lock up church business. I've come to believe this vote was more about weakening the unions and strengthening the GC than it was about anything, because the role of women in the church has changed precisely zero. Women will still serve as pastors. The only thing different is that the GC gets to say whether women can be ordained or not and not the people of the nations where they serve in the pulpit. It looked like a political move. It smelled like a political move and those among the loyal opposition were told to sit down, hush up and go along. As to the applause, the VP understood what would happen if a raucous celebration broke out. 900 some-odd people would have rose from their seats and walked out.I believe God is in control, but we are told there is going to be a fight for the soul of the church at the end of time. I think this is the beginning of that and I think the "conservative" side is not getting off to a good start on this issue by supporting a structural power shift toward the centralized management (Wilson) like this.
You make a good point about decentralized power, but I believe that the effort to contain the Women's Ordination issue to the GC has more to do with pre-empting efforts by the pro-WO side to seek redress through civil courts than power-grubbing by the GC. Let's not forget that the GC leadership doesn't totally control the agenda, but rather the delegates that attend the GC sessions every five years. The threat that the pro-WO side of the debate would resort to civil litigation is real and pastors & broadcaters like Doug Batchelor have been saying this since before the 2015 session in San Antonio. Then you would have judges whose agenda is NOT in keeping with the Adventist mission (or our best interests) getting to decide for us what is good for us... based not on God's word, but on worldly precedents. So the vote, based on the strict lettering of the vote proposal, was a very good outcome. Now if Union or State Conferences disregard the counsel of the Bible and the will of the GC delegates, it will be within the power of the NAD (which is not the GC) to censure or revoke the credentials of those who disregard that which is prohibited. ua-cam.com/video/7_bUUOfS4xA/v-deo.html
While this was the right decision for the question, all this has done is keep the status quo. What needs to happen is to reverse allowing women to be elders, and stop commissioning women as pastors. Then funds should be allocated for dedicated women to minister to families without pastoral ordination as we were told to have by Ellen White. I think because the church has neglected to do what White told us to do, we have this issue today. Had the Church been proactive in involving women in correct lines of work, we may have avoided this issue altogether. At any rate, more work needs to be done to come closer to God's revealed will for Church organization.
+MrMok777 Do you think a vote will stop the rebels from still wanting a position in fact it will get worse the enemy the true rebel doesn't give up so easily they will marginalize everyone who speaks the truth! Thats why they look so upset about the decision they will expose who they are by their next steps!
Shan Dappa Oh yes, unfortunately you are very correct. This will not stop rebellion. Only make it more evident. As we come closer to the end of time we will only find ourselves separating from one and coming close to another. It is the shaking, the settling into truth or error, the sifting of the chaff from wheat. While I'm happy the vote wen the way it did, it literally accomplished nothing but allow things to stay the way they are. What needs to happen is the end of commissioned female pastors, and the end of female elders.
The church has spoken and a decision has been reached. There are those who still reason and continue to preach for women's ordination just like the case of the Florida Conference president, he cant move on. He even discourage churches in Florida from inviting Doug Bachelor because of the latter's stand against WO saying he is divisive because of that stance. DB has stopped preaching about WO after the GC but the Florida Conference president continues to preach until now as evidenced by his "admonition" to his churches not to invite DB, as if he doesn't recognize that God has spoken thru that decision during the GC
Amen 1 Timothy 2:11-14 and 1 Timothy 3:1-7 are too plain to me. Thank God people still study the Bible at the conference. Our people need to open the Good Book more.
Amen. Christ is the Leader of this True Church. Any body intending at troubling IT will never succeed in his fake presumption. May we all follow it is written? Praise God. John 15, 5.
This was only a small victory. Read Isaiah 3:12. Women were the rulers and children their oppressors. This means that this was a small reprieve. A little more time for the wheat and tares to separate. The last vote was 33 percent it was 41 percent this time. In all likelihood it will be over fifty percent in the next conference meeting. Ellen White says that time repeats itself and we live through the experiences that the Israelites did. The church leaders in Christ's time called for his crucifixion. They are doing the same in our time. With drums entering like Ellen White said. With homosexuality attacking God's people like it did in Sodom and Gomorrah. With women leading and young people in the church overthrowing everything. We are at the end. Don't look to the GC for truth. Look to God and the Bible alone. Our pastors are becoming like the world more and more. Tithe is more important than teaching truths that could convict someone who is rejecting the truth which would cause them to leave or change. My church has women elders. Our colleges train women pastors. We have drums in our church. We have all but collapsed.
EG White chose not to be ordained as she knew it wasn't biblical. It was offered to her and she turned it down. EG White is not the center of SDA beliefs or teachings. The Bible is the center of SDA doctrine! Please make no mistake about that. EG White however was a prophet and her writings do help shed light and understanding on biblical truth. But if there was ever a discrepancy between the Bible and EG White, the Bible clearly stands superior to the writings of sister White.
I agree, but about what you said about "if there was a discrepancy between the two".. leaves room for an attack. For instance, in her early writings, Ellen G White wrote some things (not errors) that didn't Seem to be as Enlightened as her later writing on the same subject. And that is mainly because she wrote things which God had shown her from all the light God had given her at the time, but later, as God revealed even More light and knowledge to her, she could Expound on those earlier things she had written and put them in a more clearer light. For instance, in her earlier writing, she might give a more biblically-phrased statement like "God will punish those who have transgress His law", and later on, upon further reflection and light from God, she could Expound on that earlier statement more fully by clarifying that "God does not stand toward the sinner as the executioner of the sentence upon trangsgression, but He leaves the rejectors of mercy, to reap that which They have sown." In other words, in place, she might speak more in the line of the typical bible writers and say that God will punish the evil doer, and in another (usually later) statement, might Clarify her earlier statement with the details of How Precisely will God punishes the evil doer. As the bible Always puts Everything destructive on God, as the Hebrew writers held God as sovereign ruler; So anything which He Permitted to occur, was written as if He Personally did it. As Ellen White herself explained in the chapter Destruction of Jerusalem in the Great Controversy and what we often find in the bible itself when speaking of the judgements of God, God will release His protecting hand and allow another nation (as in the case of Israel and Judah), evil men, or the turbulent forces of nature to take their rightful course and punish the guilty. Both Statements are correct, and neither is wrong or biblically inaccurate, as one merely expounds on the other. But in No place did she ever veer off from the things already revealed by God in the bible. I just wanted you to be aware of that because we have a lot of Satan-inspired critics who are constantly picking through Ellen Whites writings, trying to destroy her credibility (and Our Faith in her writings) as being inspired from God.
That's how much the Adventist Church follows the Bible... even sister White couldn't be ordained. It also shows that both men and women are called by God to serve in his ministry with each taking-up their duties according to the dictates of the Bible
The Lord said in Luke 11:23…He that is not with me is against me: and he that gatherers not with me scattereth. If this matter separates the church , do it is against Christ. We have to stay united for the sake of our church and not allow Satan or those who accepted Satan’s advice to destroy the Lord’s church.. The Lord preserves his church.
In all this "praise the Lord" and "sticking to Biblical truth" that I keep seeing below, many miss an important point. A few points in fact. And it seems these points were missed by the General Conference in San Antonio as well. According to the SDA official policy on ordination, specifically recommended by Ellen White more than 100 years ago - policy which is still standing to this day - it is the UNIONS, not the Divisions, who have the authority and responsibility on ordination (they simply need to inform GC on their decision, nothing more). And, since the Adventist Church is not set up as a perfect mechanistic hierarchy like, say, the Roman Catholic Church, the Divisions are not set up for that kind of micromanagement: they have no authority do direct the Unions how to specifically handle ordination - since it is not for the Divisions (nor the GC for that matter) to decide. Not until the 100+ year old policy is changed. Which it wasn't. Sure the GC can cajole, and the Divisions can "recommend" and exert other indirect pressures on Unions to comply, if they feel so inclined. BUT, they cannot officially request the Unions not to ordain women, if those unions wish to ordain them as ministers. In essence, policy-wise, the vote at San Antonio bears no power. It is procedurally meaningless. To sum up: since the Divisions bear no authority, and hold no responsibility, for ordination (be it for males, females, and anything in between for that matter), the question asked "Should the Divisions have the freedom to decide on Women's ordination?" was useless for the purpose of determining ordination policy. Therefore, Unions such as the Netherlands and Italy have the constitutional prerogative to ordain as they see fit. They are simply required to inform Divisions and the GC, which they have cone - they have officially declared they will continue to ordain women as ministers, They are quite within their constitutive rights to do so. Therefore the General Conference vote, the way it was worded, was wrong - since, as mentioned, neither the GC nor the Divisions have authority on ordination. Simple. The irony is that with so many "enlightened heads" in San Antonio, no one picked this detail up. Or maybe, just maybe, it was the Holy Spirit who blinded them (a hand hid it from them), as it has happened in the past, admittedly with somewhat weightier issues, perhaps... Finally, as an important aside, it is rather poignant that the GC saw fit to throw out the window the specific Theology on Ordination Study Committee (TOSC) recommendations - see below - and put to vote the previously mentioned useless question. Funnily enough, for those with an eye for detail, TOSC themselves - while in favour of women being ordained as pastors where appropriate - seem to have missed the point of Union authority on ordination as the GC did, laying it with the division (see #2 below). But that is a minor issue, by comparison to the GC vote blunder. On the other hand, come to think of it... maybe the wise heads at GC were indeed led down the "Divisions" garden path by the TOSC formulation !!! The Lord moves in mysterious ways, that is for sure. ______________________ TOSC recommended: "........ #2. The world church should also recognize that biblical spiritual leaders were chosen to further the mission and unity of God’s people, and that biblical examples and principles reveal that if unity and mission can be better met by female spiritual leadership, including in the office of ordained pastor, then Divisions should be allowed to do this in those Unions that deem it necessary, while protecting the religious liberty of those churches and conferences that differ."
At least they got that out of the way.Now as for Dough Batchelor,who i highly respect and i think he is a true christian.He teaches the bible the way it says it said.If that makes any sense to you all.
No, the world Church said that a Division nor it's territories cannot independently make a decision regarding ordaining Women Pastors outside of the World Church. the decision will be all or nothing, unless the General Conference gives a variance or exception based on cases by case circumstances within a country--as it has for over 30 years. Women currently can and are ordained as elders and deacons in the SDA Church. Women also serve as Pastors and are currently "Commissioned". That will not and has not changed, Praise the Lord! Both men and women should be only "commissioned" as both men and women can be, per the SDA Church. God is not a respector of persons. www.adventistreview.org/church-news/story3032-another-wn-story
Your use of profanity in a simple conversation proves exactly what kind of head you are presently and why Christ is the Head of the Church--and why Women of God should never follow a man who seeks to prove he is in charge. Blessing!
Thanks to everyone who participated and made it possible not allow this stupid thing to come to our church we shall remain in the support of biblical truth
Iamawitness4dLORD, I don't teach men.The man is the head of the woman. Woman are to obey their husbands in the LORD. We are to obey GOD rather than man. We are to love and honor our spouse. It is getting real serious, because some people spouses are not keeping up. I recently witnessed a brother under attack from a devil that was in his wife. Pray for all saved married couples. Amen
The straight testimony is a danger to those who seek to undermine the will of God. There will not be unity in the church there will be a shaking. Then unity will occur. It feels like we are in the midst of a shaking. Women Elders is not biblical. A man of one wife.
Thank God the church that his SON built will never have to vote this way this is worldly not of God, we in his church ISRAEL the Only true Remnant will never have this problem our Women Knows that the Leadership of God's will always be MEN.
KriSty LaFrance _They did not vote on women being ordination, the vote was a play on words - the question was: "Should the SDA Divisions have the choice to ordain women"._ My understanding is that the question of ordination in the worldwide church was already addressed in a previous session of GC and was voted down. At least some of the concern was that less "progressive" areas of the world would have a difficult time drawing members if there were women in positions of authority within the various churches and unions. The request in this session was to allow divisions in each part of the world to decide for themselves whether ordination of women might cause a problem among their constituents and the among the general populace that they were attempting to reach. Again, obviously, the proposal was rejected.
Ray Jones Women's ordination has NOT been voted down. They have been and made it very clear that they will continue to ordain women elders. Sorry, the SDA church is still in major apostasy.
almetcalf Yes, you are correct. The motion addressed only the question of ministerial ordination for women. Although I would stand in opposition to women's ordination, a vote the other direction would not have me immediately jumping to a charge of apostasy. Still, I am quite concerned that the NAD will continue to "commission" women pastors. Since there is only a slight difference between a commissioned minister and an ordained minister, I do believe it is intended to be an end-run around the directives of the SDA laity votes. The differences between the commissioned and ordained pastors can be found in this article: ordinationtruth.com under the heading *Clarification on the Roles of Women in Ministry* What concerns me more than the lip-service to following the directives of the world church is the Netherlands Union of Churches (NUC) which is in the Trans-European Division. According to another article under the above URL, the day after the vote, NUC has said they will continue to ordain women in spite of the vote Things are beginning to come apart at the seams, folks. Disclaimer: I asked to have my name removed from the church books half a dozen years ago, so I make these statements as an outsider looking in at an Adventist denomination where I grew up.
+Ray Jones You are right, the question was if the DIVISIONS should have a choice in ordination (of women, in this case). Many miss this point. However...according to the SDA statutes on ordination, specifically recommended by Ellen White more than 100 years ago, it is the UNIONS, not the Divisions, who have the power and responsibility on ordination. And, since the SDA Church is not set up like, say, the Roman Catholic Church, the Division have no power do direct the Unions how to specifically handle these issues. Not even the General Conference! Hence, Unions such as the Neatherlands, and Italy - who have specifically declared they will continue to ordain women as ministers, are quite within their constitutive rights to do so. It was the General Conference vote, the way it was worded, which is wrong - since, as mentioned, neither the GC nor the Divisions have authority on ordination. Simple.
yakshaver shavemyyak I am over a decade removed from Adventism, and I only follow the most prominent of happenings in the denomination. So though I will differ with you concerning Ellen White's position on which level of the church should be responsible for ordination, it has to do with a gut feeling based on many years inside Adventism. It would be foolish in the extreme for divisional leaders to control who and who is not ordained. In fact, I question whether the union leaders in many cases are close enough to an individual to make a decision on whether or not he both meets the requirements of ordination and has truly been called by God to His ministry. But the local conferences are ideal for making such decisions. However when it comes to the denomination's stance on which *groups* of people are eligible for ordination, I do believe that the division level must keep the lower conferences closely aligned with the general conference. And when the world church decides that divisions cannot make their own decisions for a certain group of people, compliance by the lower conferences should then be overseen by the divisional leaders.
This took place about three years ago and the World Church voted No to Women being Ordained as Pastor,Elder,Deacon.My Question is Why are Women still being ordained.Why is Elder Ted Wilson,NOT doing his job.Who is he really working for,God or Satan?
Ted Wilson say no to woman ordination bravo 🎈 bravo 🎈 Ted Wilson God never ordained women in His church God calls the Men to lead the church I hope seventh day Adventist church stop ordination of women
Is it just me or was the announcer a wee bit (majorly) bitter reading the No brainer answer to the ordination of women. Now if they can weed out these people trying to bring the worldly lgbt abcd ideas into the SDA universities and churches. There are false churches / doctrines where you can go, that can catter to YOUR wants, which are not GODS. Really! The false tally count makes me LOL. Really? a little over half? Sad.. We need to study our bibles and fundamentals of what is to be a true SDA. Do not conform to the World.
Lanuola Taimane I believe that both sides had excellent reasons for their positions. The arguments for those supporting the WO platform were quite good - good Bible texts and good arguments based on those Bible texts. But what struck me is that those opposing the WO ordination platform did not need much in the way of arguments - they only needed Bible texts. Because of that, my opinion was that the NAYs had a bit stronger position than the YEAs. It was a close vote, and it is no surprise to me that it turned out that way. But I am very disturbed by the rancor I see between the two groups. The NAY group is so certain that the supporters must have been attempting to do Satan's work by changing the way the church has always done business. The YEA group so certain that the detractors of the platform must be trying to inhibit God's work to reach the world. Whatever happened to two groups of people studying, coming to differing conclusions, and bringing the church together to decide the matter - united regardless the outcome? Does God not move within His church? Is God going to withdraw His Spirit because of this vote? Would He have withdrawn His Spirit if the vote had gone the other way? I see everything in the world polarizing. Politically the conservatives become more conservative while the liberals become more liberal - neither side is willing to even search for common ground any longer; economically the rich become richer and the poor become poorer; morally the wretched seem intent upon plunging themselves into the abyss while those seeking God seem to be drawing closer and closer to Him. Must the church polarize also? Folks - get a grip! This is simply the church conducting church business. Pray that God will continue to lead in all that happens within His body.
Ray Jones Haven't really seen the Yea group give in scriptures, all I heard from that side is that it is culturally acceptable in US to have ordain women.
***** Well, you may well be directing your question to the wrong person - I have not been an Adventist for a number of years. I am a Christian however - and I have followed the goings-on in the SDA church and find myself weighing in on some of the their items of contention from time to time. But should God's people eat meat? Or should they specifically abstain from meat? Jesus ate fish and almost certainly would have eaten of the Passover lamb as He grew up. I'm almost certain that Jesus also drank fermented wine. But as one pastor put it (paraphrasing) - "Judah and surrounding territories did not have local supermarkets replete with refrigerators and frozen food sections. I do believe Jesus ate the healthiest diet that was available to Him. If Jesus were alive on earth today, I think He would almost certainly be a vegetarian." I happen to agree. YMMV. But considering God's warning to Noah and family in Genesis 9:4-5 and the same restrictions in place in Acts 21:25, I would highly recommend that any Christian in this day and age who chooses to eat red meat should probably slaughter their own meat or find a kosher butcher to slaughter it for them. If the red meat you are preparing to cook really is red - you are definitely eating contrary to God's word in both Old and New Testaments.
***** I have no particular disagreement with anything you said. I do believe that a vegetarian diet is the best. But have you seen the number of us vegetarians who are still obese (me included)?!?! A vegetarian diet may be the healthiest, but that does not mean that vegetarians are necessarily healthier than those who eat meat! As far as Daniel is concerned, I do not know that he and his three friends _chose_ a vegetarian diet. Can you imagine the difficulty of speaking the the chief of the eunuchs thus: "Well, you see - we need meat that only comes from animals that have cloven hooves *and* chew the cud. The animals must have their throats cut and not be strangled. If you give us fish, they must have fins and scales. Fowl cannot be predators and cannot have webbed feet. Oh! And could you only bring meat that is not offered to your gods?" No, no - I believe they would have chosen the pulse diet for the convenience of dealing with the chief of eunuchs even if they normally ate meat.
Ameen..God help our church and our leaders....that they may continue standing for the truth...no matter where we had reached in today world....fight for UA people God and use our leaders to speak on your behalf....bless SDA church allover the world...we need the unity of our father's that they have
Has anyone bothered to ask how many delegates voted NO because of the implication of the wording of the question--the implication that authority to ordain someone to the gospel ministry is obtained from or through the General Conference?
Yes Sir,there was a winner,God's truth Won! It's now 2019, and Women are still being ordained as Elders & even Pastors.Can someone, maybe Elder Ted Wilson tell me why this vote seems to be shelved?
To Ray Jones... your comment is excellent, but would like to add one only from me:To reach a common ground would go against what is in the bible.This was all about what is written in the scriptures. As a sda myself, placed a few comments as well, I strongly feel we true sda should never try to negotiate over prophecy.Just thinking about this, what is next? the group(GC) , already became different. Oh, how many pastors claim not to have the approval to preach like before, myself even being in this faith since birth, and know where we are presntly in Revelation, yet was deeply affected emotionaly over all these "look warm", or even worse.Myself believe, pastors are in a crucial situation. About taxes, being removed meaning exemptions, then probably they might be persecuted retro to pay back all. This in case they decide to break off from this organized ,manipulated changes.However we shall remember how Jesus died for us,all Now it is our turn to show , nothing matters , we need to come boldly to Jesus ,giving it all to him.Remebember Daniel...
we should just pray for each other.because this my friends is nothing compared to what is coming.next would be the issue of same sex marriage and compulsory sunday worship.and i bet you that the outcome will be different this time since we are already softening our tone on the matter of homosexuality and the roman catholic church being the beast of revelation.that was the perfect timing for our president to blur it out all across the world but he did not .so i am more concern about what he did not say than what he did. .WHEN WE SEE THESE THINGS HAPPENING SCRIPTURE SAYS LOOK UP FOR OUR REDEMPTION DRAWETH NIGH
+timelesskoontah ...I worry about the same-sex marriages, abortions of life which God planted into the wombs Himself (He said that He "knew" us before we were in the womb), but I don't worry about compulsory Sunday worship. Why? Because under Christ, it says that we are to worship "on the first day of the week" in the New T. And Saturday is NOT the first day of the week. Under Mosaic Law, they were told to honor the Sabbath, but we are not told this, since the Cross. This has ALWAYS bothered me! I have a brain that God gave me, and I pray before reading scripture that God will help me to understand it the way HE wants me to understand it... not how mortals TELL me to understand it. I started doing that over 25 yrs ago, and my eyes have been opened by God to so much understanding of scripture, since I started praying for wisdom in understanding His holy Word.
+Meagan Kelly Meagan my friend I know sincerely that you are sincere in what you are saying but I have to respectfully say that I disagree and that you are incorrect. if you can show me where in the new testament we are told to worship God I will abandon Sabbath and keep it. also my friend if you would like can you send me all the proof from scripture please I want to see them for myself. God bless you my friend.
+Meagan Kelly to confirm your uneasiness with that read Hebrews chapter 4 and tell me what you think. you seems to be a nice and sincere person based on your response to my comment. i believe also that you are searching for the truth as found in scripture. so please my friend read Hebrews 4.when you're done there are some more I would like you to read and then let us see if you still believe that we are to worship on the SUN's day
I celebrate with caution. To imagine that such a clear issue is brought for vote in the remnant church is spiritually traumatising. Next time we will be voting for whether pastor Doug Bachelor is male or female. Its not about democracy but principle. If God was a democrat, he should have killed Noah and saved the whole world. I was born catholic but celebrate the mighty hand of Jesus to have taken me into the remnant. I abhor the compromises cripling in.
If the ordained pastor represents Christ, then a woman as an ordained pastor would symbolize Jesus coming back for HER BRIDE the Church-LESBIANISM! Just what the devil ordered-to desecrate the marriage of the Lamb!.
+Meagan Kelly The Church is Christ's Bride. Do the math, ONE bride, ONE faith, ONE Church. Not brides, not churches, and not faiths. Christ will return for His bride THE CHURCH--do the math! Christ is not returning for HER Bride--do the math: female + female =..If you are going to argue a point, please make sense!
+ASpen Fp ...I'm sorry that you weren't able to understand what I was saying. I never said ANYTHING to insinuate that there was more than one 'bride'. In fact, I plainly said that women AND men made up "the bride of Christ" - the church as a whole. (One church--includes both male & female Christians.) That is fact based upon scripture. I can't figure out how in the world you deduced what you said above, from what I wrote. Please try reading it again. I have tried to simplify, below, what I said before. (Although no one else seemed to have any trouble with it.) Here goes again, but more simplified: Under your scenario, it would then be male homosexualism when Jesus comes back to collect His church, if it includes MALE servants. That is.. the church "as a whole" is Christ's bride--it is composed of both men & women servants of the Lord--Christians! A pastor does not "represent" Christ, but rather SERVES Christ as a shepherd of Christ's flock - the church... 'keeping' members in the fold, or 'bringing them BACK to the fold', if they have 'strayed'. It says in the Word of God that pastors (also called shepherds, elders, & bishops interchangeably in the Bible) are responsible for their SOULS--an awesome responsibility!But I agree w/you that a woman cannot serve as a pastor, elder, or shepherd, b/c the New T. is very clear in this commandment. It says that a woman cannot serve as an elder/pastor/shepherd, b/c to qualify for that office, "he" must be the husband of one wife, and also must have children. A WOMAN could not have "one wife"! (Now that would REALLY be lesbianism! And yet there are churches which allow women to preach, and also to serve as an elder/pastor.) Want to READ the qualifications? See Titus 1:6, and 1 Tim 3. It also states in 1 Cor. 14:33-35, "Let your women keep silent in the churches", and that if there is something she wants or needs to know (the word "learn" is used in some versions), she is to ask her husband. Of course if she is single or a widow, she would then need to go to one of the well-established and approved male members of the church, or the elders/pastors privately - i.e. outside the church worship services... "for it is a shame for women to speak in the church", says verse 35 in the scripture mentioned above (1 Cor 14.)I am wondering, therefore, why this issue even came up in the church that's featured in this video: Just read what the BIBLE says, and let the Word of GOD settle the issue! After all, it was God who led the writers of the Bible in what to write: "All scripture is given by inspiration of God", 2 Tim 3:16.
+Meagan Kelly Once again, ONE CHURCH ONE BRIDE not males and females--stick with the symbolism; Christ is not coming back for churches, but for HIS ONE BRIDE. Christ marries His Bride the Church--not males and females. The pastor is to shepherd the flock like the GOOD SHEPHERD, Christ Jesus, whom he is to represent. By your reasoning, using a piano/organ to praise the LORD or using electricity to preach the Word is adding to the Word--make sense!
+ASpen Fp ... I don't know if you are male or female, but you talk (write) both in circles, AND very condescendingly, which is, to say the least, most unchristian-like. I therefore refuse to keep casting my pearls before swine, per God's commandments. You even try to prove present-day worship methods (i.e., our worship since Christ came and blotted out the Old Law) by using MOSAIC scripture. (NOT applicable now, acc. to Col. 2:14!) I do not wish to discuss those things holy, w/those who have such un-Christian attitudes. I would DEFINITELY be "casting my pearls before swine"! Please pray about your attitude and condescending nature. People who have a "know-it-all" ego, not only never learn anything, but they certainly won't be able to increase the fold of the Lord w/such an attitude. (Btw... my degree is in English-Lit, and I have been published quite a few times ((mostly spiritual, but one a children's book, and one a book-LET on dreams--which was including in one of the "Soup for the Soul" books)), so I have no trouble "making sense"; I cannot help it if the reader has problems understanding plainly-worded English.)
+ASpen Fp ...Because there is nothing in the Bible about the use of "applauding" as praise. We are not to "add to", nor "take from" what is written in God's Word, acc. to the NT. Remember that in Lev. 10, God struck Nadab and Abihu dead for just using a different incense (or fire) in their worship to God, than what He had commanded. Then God told Aaron, their father, not to even mourn them lest he, as well, be carried out of the temple dead.
+timelesskoontah They look it don't they DON'T CLAP! lol he might aswell have said dont rejoice and don't praise God! See their faces they look so disappointed no smile nothing!!!
Shan Dappa while that is true we should just pray for each other.because this my friends is nothing compared to what is coming.next would be the issue of same sex marriage.and i bet you that the outcome will be different this time since we are already softening our tone on the matter.WHEN WE SEE THESE THINGS HAPPENING SCRIPTURE SAYS LOOK UP FOR OUR REDEMPTION DRAWETH NIGH
I am a Deaconness in the North Caribbean Conference...and I preach Sermons....Satan is powerless over women's ordination...we women shall preach the gospel and be richer and more wealthier and more Glorified...I admire Joyce Meyers...
Why world church? Nmmm change that name,If you want by the worldwide church not world church no.why be addicted in the name,call you only Christians...
I am so tired of the denomination's resistance to the ordination of women. We are continually told we have to "wait" until some segment becomes educated or ready---perhaps the church might become ready very quickly if its female members decided to withhold their tithe until the church finally said YES to women's ordination. I recall how quickly our racially segregated churches in the south during the 60's and 70's saw fit to integrate under the threat of losing their tax exempt status.
To cecill wallace... Well dear first the catholics changed the bible around, Learn your history. And Yes, it is in the bible, but sadly you just speak like someone who never studied the true bible. Sorry, but your comment is based on your false belief. Every living soul who knows the bible , also knows what is written.. So first Read, THEN SPEAK.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Praise the LORD, for Truth prevailed! Ellen White said:
Those who feel called out to join the movement in favor of woman's rights and the so-called dress reform might as well sever all connection with the third angel's message. The spirit which attends the one cannot be in harmony with the other. The Scriptures are plain upon the relations and rights of men and women.{1T 421.4}
I am truly proud of the Seventh day Adventist church in her decision to follow the bible and the bible alone,
Smehl Gallen ... and Ellen G. White... a zombie from hell.
nonsens
Spoken like a true Jesuit, 5winder!
Smehl Gallen ...pride goeth before a fall...in humility we must walk with God as Enoch did.
@@MrCJ-qz9dl That is pride in yourself. It is good to be proud of the SDA chruch.
God is still in control. Praise Jesus
***** GOD is always in control. However we should not do forget that GOD has given to each and every on of us the GOD GIVEN right to choose.
That is why GOD Spoke through Joshua to GODS people and said, "And if it seem evil to you to serve the LORD, CHOOSE YOU, this day whom you will serve. Joshua 24:15.
Amen, For GOD has said in Romans 12:19 Vengeance is Mine I will repay saith the LORD.
It surpasses my imagination that a vote was taken to bring this topic to a NO. Since when are core doctrines voted upon? This is a serious weakness and lack of stability and ground from the SDA church to which I belong to from birth. I would have never imagined that such an event would have taken place regardless of whom would think it was OK to do it, ranks or positions aside this whole issue was disturbing and quite humiliating. No wonder why so many people are leaving through those doors never to come back. The more I watched the video the more I thought to myself what is going on? The fact that this issue took such an importance and that it was even considered to take a 100% in the given case it would have been voted in favor just blows my mind.... This is nothing more than a mockery and a huge disgrace. I am ashamed that this event took place.
Dayali And if you die SDA you are lost. it is not the Church that Jesus built.
God works and manifests Himself to particular individual heart of somebody, same Satan do the so. it not the purpose of voting on the bible but people expressed how God work in their hearts and how he led them to understand the scriptures. Remember since before Jesus said that.. in the church there is weeds and wheat.
@muthoni53. Satan had ever won on God's matters, Never, and God will never let him to achieve it
@@elderbrath3310. Amen do not die as an SDA, but die with Jesus in your heart. allow Him to guide you in every thought then finally will He tell you is which church he built
Since the church is voting on biblical principles, why not vote on ending the scourge of abortion in Adventist hospitals for profit. Abortions are an abomination before God and clearly unbiblical. Can you really claim to be God's Remnant church if you are breaking the Sixth Commandment as a church? Thou shalt not kill. If you break one commandment you break them all. Sound familiar?
Amen.. we can never forget our mission.. thank God for his leading and our leaders for listening
There are no winner and losers here. That was the highlight of his speech. It was the decision of the Church.The SDA Church. NO APLAUSE. That's my Church. I am proudly Adventist to my last molecule. God bless you all.
moses thomas yes
They did not vote on women being ordination, the vote was a play on words - the question was: "Should the SDA Divisions have the choice to ordain women". If the vote was on Women's Ordination the question would have been :should women be ordained in the SDA Church. a big difference in the question that was actually given to the delegates. The delegates were given poor information to vote on. Listen to the question that was asked. The SDA Church has still not voted on Women's Ordination
There's nothing to vote on, the Bible is clear. Woman should not be ordained, if anyone feels differently about it they need to present their argument through scripture.
I am certain that women's ordination will be pressed again in the future, very possibly at the 2020 General Conference in Indianapolis Indiana. Let people know that after three failed attempts to pass this issue, if they try yet again, that it is a spirit of rebellion that motivates those who press the issue. It is also worth observing that nothing in scripture even hints at a role for women as pastors/elders. Yet let us not forget that many other ministries are open to women. Let every one fulfill the roles for which God has fitted them. Let's stay focused on proclaiming the Good News of Christ to a dying world!
I pray that God will continue to guide us and instruct us according to His Word, His Spirit, as we prepare for 2020. I live in Indiana and pray that I'll be able to attend as a delegate. I'm almost 50 and may not get another opportunity to participate at this level, certainly not so close to home. May God bless you and if he is willing, I may meet someone who's seen this video too.
I attend a church where there are no men able to take up the role as elder, what suggestion do you have for our situation?
If you have no men at your church, the Head Deaconess can, within the guideposts of the Spirit of Prophecy, perform weekly duties such as delivering the sermon, or leading the worship. The only duties that would require an ordained Pastor without exception would be officiating the Lord's Supper, performing marriages, and conducting baptisms. Pastor Doug Batchelor makes the case for this at ua-cam.com/video/7_bUUOfS4xA/v-deo.html
So you defer to Ellen White for rules for women's church service instead of the bible?
God created the man to be Priest in the home, I don’t know why we are trying to change what God has created.
God call men to lead the church not women
indeed the Holy spirit at work SDA CHURCH for life.
I am proud that JESUS did not allow us to be ruined by the subtle ignorance of man, but by the giudance of the holy spirit.
I only hope we will not have to vote on the this topic again because if we were following the bible and the spirit of prophecy will would not have to vote on issue such as this in which we are well aware of the answer. Thank God for the result because making a comparison with other churches that have ordain women pastors have become infested with homosexual pastors and members. However if these individuals ( homosexuals & lesbians) sincerely repent of their ways He God is willing and able to forgive them. God hate the sin but love the individual, we too love all human but hate the sins. We should strive to always to attain the character of our God and the be light bearers to the world.
Wayne Loukim
I would be interested in statistics linking WO to lgbt acceptance. I am sure that the most liberal churches who legitimize lgbt involvement in church would also allow WO. But I am much less sure that WO necessarily leads to lgbt acceptance in the church.
@@rayjones9651 I
@@GelatinousMan You started a comment but did not finish. I am curious about what you have to say.
Glory to God, we are his children. And He will control his church to the end. AMEN
I thank God through the way he has put wisdom on our leaders to address this issue, look back to eden and accept the message positively
Well, sad to say last year they have reversed their decision, and its splitting the church.
This vote was not about women's ordination. It was about who gets to decide whether or not they want to ordain women as ministers. This was about whether power is to be centralized or decentralized. Ellen White got into with the GC after the 1902 GC when it was voted the first time to decentralize the power in the church away from the GC President through the creation of Union Conferences. EGW applauded that move which allowed for decision-making to take place closer to the action and made the GC a little weaker. The GC didn't want to let go of the power and Sr. White told them they were in essence resisting God's will.I worry that continuing to invest this kind of power in the hands of a central administration, it's going to make our church more rigid and less flexible when, as it sure will, the world moves to shut us down. It's a lot harder to knock down more independent unions, conferences and local church than it is if all you have to do is swoop down on the GC offices to lock up church business.
I've come to believe this vote was more about weakening the unions and strengthening the GC than it was about anything, because the role of women in the church has changed precisely zero. Women will still serve as pastors. The only thing different is that the GC gets to say whether women can be ordained or not and not the people of the nations where they serve in the pulpit.
It looked like a political move. It smelled like a political move and those among the loyal opposition were told to sit down, hush up and go along.
As to the applause, the VP understood what would happen if a raucous celebration broke out. 900 some-odd people would have rose from their seats and walked out.I believe God is in control, but we are told there is going to be a fight for the soul of the church at the end of time. I think this is the beginning of that and I think the "conservative" side is not getting off to a good start on this issue by supporting a structural power shift toward the centralized management (Wilson) like this.
You make a good point about decentralized power, but I believe that the effort to contain the Women's Ordination issue to the GC has more to do with pre-empting efforts by the pro-WO side to seek redress through civil courts than power-grubbing by the GC. Let's not forget that the GC leadership doesn't totally control the agenda, but rather the delegates that attend the GC sessions every five years. The threat that the pro-WO side of the debate would resort to civil litigation is real and pastors & broadcaters like Doug Batchelor have been saying this since before the 2015 session in San Antonio. Then you would have judges whose agenda is NOT in keeping with the Adventist mission (or our best interests) getting to decide for us what is good for us... based not on God's word, but on worldly precedents. So the vote, based on the strict lettering of the vote proposal, was a very good outcome. Now if Union or State Conferences disregard the counsel of the Bible and the will of the GC delegates, it will be within the power of the NAD (which is not the GC) to censure or revoke the credentials of those who disregard that which is prohibited. ua-cam.com/video/7_bUUOfS4xA/v-deo.html
Tom King.. The vote was about upholding the teachings of the Bible
Amen! MAY GOD CONTINUE TO LEAD HIS PEOPLE.
While this was the right decision for the question, all this has done is keep the status quo.
What needs to happen is to reverse allowing women to be elders, and stop commissioning women as pastors. Then funds should be allocated for dedicated women to minister to families without pastoral ordination as we were told to have by Ellen White.
I think because the church has neglected to do what White told us to do, we have this issue today. Had the Church been proactive in involving women in correct lines of work, we may have avoided this issue altogether.
At any rate, more work needs to be done to come closer to God's revealed will for Church organization.
+MrMok777 Do you think a vote will stop the rebels from still wanting a position in fact it will get worse the enemy the true rebel doesn't give up so easily they will marginalize everyone who speaks the truth! Thats why they look so upset about the decision they will expose who they are by their next steps!
Shan Dappa Oh yes, unfortunately you are very correct. This will not stop rebellion. Only make it more evident. As we come closer to the end of time we will only find ourselves separating from one and coming close to another. It is the shaking, the settling into truth or error, the sifting of the chaff from wheat.
While I'm happy the vote wen the way it did, it literally accomplished nothing but allow things to stay the way they are. What needs to happen is the end of commissioned female pastors, and the end of female elders.
exactly why wait till november shift them out now if they really mean business...agendas to stop you from focusing on looking up
God knows everything.More prayer need.
The church has spoken and a decision has been reached. There are those who still reason and continue to preach for women's ordination just like the case of the Florida Conference president, he cant move on. He even discourage churches in Florida from inviting Doug Bachelor because of the latter's stand against WO saying he is divisive because of that stance. DB has stopped preaching about WO after the GC but the Florida Conference president continues to preach until now as evidenced by his "admonition" to his churches not to invite DB, as if he doesn't recognize that God has spoken thru that decision during the GC
Amen 1 Timothy 2:11-14 and 1 Timothy 3:1-7 are too plain to me. Thank God people still study the Bible at the conference. Our people need to open the Good Book more.
Thank to GOD for our wonderful Church....
Our GOD is Alpha and omega, may The LORD be glorified..
does anyone have a video with the entire sessions discussion on womens ordination?
sda church is doing a lot of dark secrets
Amen. Christ is the Leader of this True Church. Any body intending at troubling IT will never succeed in his fake presumption. May we all follow it is written? Praise God. John 15, 5.
Papua New Guinea Adventists accepted and embraced the vote of the majority.. May HIS will be done.
Good job Ted Wilson
God called the men to lead His church not the women
This was only a small victory. Read Isaiah 3:12. Women were the rulers and children their oppressors. This means that this was a small reprieve. A little more time for the wheat and tares to separate. The last vote was 33 percent it was 41 percent this time. In all likelihood it will be over fifty percent in the next conference meeting. Ellen White says that time repeats itself and we live through the experiences that the Israelites did. The church leaders in Christ's time called for his crucifixion. They are doing the same in our time. With drums entering like Ellen White said. With homosexuality attacking God's people like it did in Sodom and Gomorrah. With women leading and young people in the church overthrowing everything. We are at the end. Don't look to the GC for truth. Look to God and the Bible alone. Our pastors are becoming like the world more and more. Tithe is more important than teaching truths that could convict someone who is rejecting the truth which would cause them to leave or change. My church has women elders. Our colleges train women pastors. We have drums in our church. We have all but collapsed.
What EG White couldn't be ordained, yet her prophetic writings and visions can be the center of the churches teachings?
Facts
EG White chose not to be ordained as she knew it wasn't biblical. It was offered to her and she turned it down. EG White is not the center of SDA beliefs or teachings. The Bible is the center of SDA doctrine! Please make no mistake about that. EG White however was a prophet and her writings do help shed light and understanding on biblical truth. But if there was ever a discrepancy between the Bible and EG White, the Bible clearly stands superior to the writings of sister White.
I agree, but about what you said about "if there was a discrepancy between the two".. leaves room for an attack. For instance, in her early writings, Ellen G White wrote some things (not errors) that didn't Seem to be as Enlightened as her later writing on the same subject. And that is mainly because she wrote things which God had shown her from all the light God had given her at the time, but later, as God revealed even More light and knowledge to her, she could Expound on those earlier things she had written and put them in a more clearer light.
For instance, in her earlier writing, she might give a more biblically-phrased statement like "God will punish those who have transgress His law", and later on, upon further reflection and light from God, she could Expound on that earlier statement more fully by clarifying that "God does not stand toward the sinner as the executioner of the sentence upon trangsgression, but He leaves the rejectors of mercy, to reap that which They have sown."
In other words, in place, she might speak more in the line of the typical bible writers and say that God will punish the evil doer, and in another (usually later) statement, might Clarify her earlier statement with the details of How Precisely will God punishes the evil doer. As the bible Always puts Everything destructive on God, as the Hebrew writers held God as sovereign ruler; So anything which He Permitted to occur, was written as if He Personally did it.
As Ellen White herself explained in the chapter Destruction of Jerusalem in the Great Controversy and what we often find in the bible itself when speaking of the judgements of God, God will release His protecting hand and allow another nation (as in the case of Israel and Judah), evil men, or the turbulent forces of nature to take their rightful course and punish the guilty.
Both Statements are correct, and neither is wrong or biblically inaccurate, as one merely expounds on the other. But in No place did she ever veer off from the things already revealed by God in the bible.
I just wanted you to be aware of that because we have a lot of Satan-inspired critics who are constantly picking through Ellen Whites writings, trying to destroy her credibility (and Our Faith in her writings) as being inspired from God.
Casey K. Great response!
That's how much the Adventist Church follows the Bible... even sister White couldn't be ordained. It also shows that both men and women are called by God to serve in his ministry with each taking-up their duties according to the dictates of the Bible
The Lord said in Luke 11:23…He that is not with me is against me: and he that gatherers not with me scattereth.
If this matter separates the church , do it is against Christ. We have to stay united for the sake of our church and not allow Satan or those who accepted Satan’s advice to destroy the Lord’s church.. The Lord preserves his church.
In all this "praise the Lord" and "sticking to Biblical truth" that I keep seeing below, many miss an important point. A few points in fact. And it seems these points were missed by the General Conference in San Antonio as well.
According to the SDA official policy on ordination, specifically recommended by Ellen White more than 100 years ago - policy which is still standing to this day - it is the UNIONS, not the Divisions, who have the authority and responsibility on ordination (they simply need to inform GC on their decision, nothing more).
And, since the Adventist Church is not set up as a perfect mechanistic hierarchy like, say, the Roman Catholic Church, the Divisions are not set up for that kind of micromanagement: they have no authority do direct the Unions how to specifically handle ordination - since it is not for the Divisions (nor the GC for that matter) to decide. Not until the 100+ year old policy is changed. Which it wasn't. Sure the GC can cajole, and the Divisions can "recommend" and exert other indirect pressures on Unions to comply, if they feel so inclined. BUT, they cannot officially request the Unions not to ordain women, if those unions wish to ordain them as ministers. In essence, policy-wise, the vote at San Antonio bears no power. It is procedurally meaningless.
To sum up: since the Divisions bear no authority, and hold no responsibility, for ordination (be it for males, females, and anything in between for that matter), the question asked "Should the Divisions have the freedom to decide on Women's ordination?" was useless for the purpose of determining ordination policy. Therefore, Unions such as the Netherlands and Italy have the constitutional prerogative to ordain as they see fit. They are simply required to inform Divisions and the GC, which they have cone - they have officially declared they will continue to ordain women as ministers, They are quite within their constitutive rights to do so.
Therefore the General Conference vote, the way it was worded, was wrong - since, as mentioned, neither the GC nor the Divisions have authority on ordination. Simple.
The irony is that with so many "enlightened heads" in San Antonio, no one picked this detail up. Or maybe, just maybe, it was the Holy Spirit who blinded them (a hand hid it from them), as it has happened in the past, admittedly with somewhat weightier issues, perhaps...
Finally, as an important aside, it is rather poignant that the GC saw fit to throw out the window the specific Theology on Ordination Study Committee (TOSC) recommendations - see below - and put to vote the previously mentioned useless question. Funnily enough, for those with an eye for detail, TOSC themselves - while in favour of women being ordained as pastors where appropriate - seem to have missed the point of Union authority on ordination as the GC did, laying it with the division (see #2 below). But that is a minor issue, by comparison to the GC vote blunder. On the other hand, come to think of it... maybe the wise heads at GC were indeed led down the "Divisions" garden path by the TOSC formulation !!!
The Lord moves in mysterious ways, that is for sure.
______________________
TOSC recommended:
"........
#2. The world church should also recognize that biblical spiritual leaders were chosen to further the mission and unity of God’s people, and that biblical examples and principles reveal that if unity and mission can be better met by female spiritual leadership, including in the office of ordained pastor, then Divisions should be allowed to do this in those Unions that deem it necessary, while protecting the religious liberty of those churches and conferences that differ."
I said no
Why now our church is doing ordination of women why why
Because we are Laodiceea, a disgraceful church that makes Lord VOMIT us from His mouth
At least they got that out of the way.Now as for Dough Batchelor,who i highly respect and i think he is a true christian.He teaches the bible the way it says it said.If that makes any sense to you all.
No, the world Church said that a Division nor it's territories cannot independently make a decision regarding ordaining Women Pastors outside of the World Church. the decision will be all or nothing, unless the General Conference gives a variance or exception based on cases by case circumstances within a country--as it has for over 30 years. Women currently can and are ordained as elders and deacons in the SDA Church. Women also serve as Pastors and are currently "Commissioned". That will not and has not changed, Praise the Lord!
Both men and women should be only "commissioned" as both men and women can be, per the SDA Church. God is not a respector of persons.
www.adventistreview.org/church-news/story3032-another-wn-story
I see alot "wrong" with your response. The Bible states that CHRIST is the Head of the Church...not a man (Ephesians).
No...it makes you look ignorant and chauvinistic. Be blessed.
Your use of profanity in a simple conversation proves exactly what kind of head you are presently and why Christ is the Head of the Church--and why Women of God should never follow a man who seeks to prove he is in charge. Blessing!
Thanks to everyone who participated and made it possible not allow this stupid thing to come to our church we shall remain in the support of biblical truth
I favor NO for women's ordination.
Amen Jesus is coming soon
Iamawitness4dLORD, I don't teach men.The man is the head of the woman. Woman are to obey their husbands in the LORD. We are to obey GOD rather than man. We are to love and honor our spouse. It is getting real serious, because some people spouses are not keeping up. I recently witnessed a brother under attack from a devil that was in his wife. Pray for all saved married couples. Amen
Apostasy is coming in the church of God :900+ and 1000+ are almost the same.God protect us(your church)
The straight testimony is a danger to those who seek to undermine the will of God. There will not be unity in the church there will be a shaking. Then unity will occur. It feels like we are in the midst of a shaking. Women Elders is not biblical. A man of one wife.
YET the adventist Church ORDAINS WOMEN :))
What a disgrace!
They did not! They only said that each union could not decide for themselves weather to ordain women or not.
Actually each division, the question did not address the prerogatives of Union Conferences
Thank God the church that his SON built will never have to vote this way this is worldly not of God, we in his church ISRAEL the Only true Remnant will never have this problem our Women Knows that the Leadership of God's will always be MEN.
KriSty LaFrance
_They did not vote on women being ordination, the vote was a play on words - the question was: "Should the SDA Divisions have the choice to ordain women"._
My understanding is that the question of ordination in the worldwide church was already addressed in a previous session of GC and was voted down. At least some of the concern was that less "progressive" areas of the world would have a difficult time drawing members if there were women in positions of authority within the various churches and unions.
The request in this session was to allow divisions in each part of the world to decide for themselves whether ordination of women might cause a problem among their constituents and the among the general populace that they were attempting to reach. Again, obviously, the proposal was rejected.
Ray Jones Women's ordination has NOT been voted down. They have been and made it very clear that they will continue to ordain women elders. Sorry, the SDA church is still in major apostasy.
almetcalf
Yes, you are correct. The motion addressed only the question of ministerial ordination for women.
Although I would stand in opposition to women's ordination, a vote the other direction would not have me immediately jumping to a charge of apostasy. Still, I am quite concerned that the NAD will continue to "commission" women pastors.
Since there is only a slight difference between a commissioned minister and an ordained minister, I do believe it is intended to be an end-run around the directives of the SDA laity votes. The differences between the commissioned and ordained pastors can be found in this article: ordinationtruth.com under the heading *Clarification on the Roles of Women in Ministry*
What concerns me more than the lip-service to following the directives of the world church is the Netherlands Union of Churches (NUC) which is in the Trans-European Division. According to another article under the above URL, the day after the vote, NUC has said they will continue to ordain women in spite of the vote
Things are beginning to come apart at the seams, folks.
Disclaimer: I asked to have my name removed from the church books half a dozen years ago, so I make these statements as an outsider looking in at an Adventist denomination where I grew up.
+Ray Jones You are right, the question was if the DIVISIONS should have a choice in ordination (of women, in this case). Many miss this point. However...according to the SDA statutes on ordination, specifically recommended by Ellen White more than 100 years ago, it is the UNIONS, not the Divisions, who have the power and responsibility on ordination. And, since the SDA Church is not set up like, say, the Roman Catholic Church, the Division have no power do direct the Unions how to specifically handle these issues. Not even the General Conference! Hence, Unions such as the Neatherlands, and Italy - who have specifically declared they will continue to ordain women as ministers, are quite within their constitutive rights to do so. It was the General Conference vote, the way it was worded, which is wrong - since, as mentioned, neither the GC nor the Divisions have authority on ordination. Simple.
yakshaver shavemyyak
I am over a decade removed from Adventism, and I only follow the most prominent of happenings in the denomination. So though I will differ with you concerning Ellen White's position on which level of the church should be responsible for ordination, it has to do with a gut feeling based on many years inside Adventism.
It would be foolish in the extreme for divisional leaders to control who and who is not ordained. In fact, I question whether the union leaders in many cases are close enough to an individual to make a decision on whether or not he both meets the requirements of ordination and has truly been called by God to His ministry. But the local conferences are ideal for making such decisions.
However when it comes to the denomination's stance on which *groups* of people are eligible for ordination, I do believe that the division level must keep the lower conferences closely aligned with the general conference. And when the world church decides that divisions cannot make their own decisions for a certain group of people, compliance by the lower conferences should then be overseen by the divisional leaders.
Standup up for jesus
ALL denominations are man made, NOT in the Holy Bible. Acts 2:42 speaks of "the Apostles Doctrine, the new testament church.
This took place about three years ago and the World Church voted No to Women being Ordained as Pastor,Elder,Deacon.My Question is Why are Women still being ordained.Why is Elder Ted Wilson,NOT doing his job.Who is he really working for,God or Satan?
Haha I was right Regina Johnson an adventist got ordinated...all the Power in the Adventist church belongs to Jesus Christ and his chosen vessels...
What about the 6th commandment?
Our pro-abortion guidelines need to be voted on and majorly modified by the 2020 GC.
Ted Wilson say no to woman ordination bravo 🎈 bravo 🎈 Ted Wilson God never ordained women in His church
God calls the Men to lead the church I hope seventh day Adventist church stop ordination of women
Is it just me or was the announcer a wee bit (majorly) bitter reading the No brainer answer to the ordination of women. Now if they can weed out these people trying to bring the worldly lgbt abcd ideas into the SDA universities and churches. There are false churches / doctrines where you can go, that can catter to YOUR wants, which are not GODS. Really! The false tally count makes me LOL. Really? a little over half? Sad.. We need to study our bibles and fundamentals of what is to be a true SDA. Do not conform to the World.
Lanuola Taimane
I believe that both sides had excellent reasons for their positions. The arguments for those supporting the WO platform were quite good - good Bible texts and good arguments based on those Bible texts. But what struck me is that those opposing the WO ordination platform did not need much in the way of arguments - they only needed Bible texts. Because of that, my opinion was that the NAYs had a bit stronger position than the YEAs. It was a close vote, and it is no surprise to me that it turned out that way.
But I am very disturbed by the rancor I see between the two groups. The NAY group is so certain that the supporters must have been attempting to do Satan's work by changing the way the church has always done business. The YEA group so certain that the detractors of the platform must be trying to inhibit God's work to reach the world. Whatever happened to two groups of people studying, coming to differing conclusions, and bringing the church together to decide the matter - united regardless the outcome? Does God not move within His church? Is God going to withdraw His Spirit because of this vote? Would He have withdrawn His Spirit if the vote had gone the other way?
I see everything in the world polarizing. Politically the conservatives become more conservative while the liberals become more liberal - neither side is willing to even search for common ground any longer; economically the rich become richer and the poor become poorer; morally the wretched seem intent upon plunging themselves into the abyss while those seeking God seem to be drawing closer and closer to Him. Must the church polarize also? Folks - get a grip! This is simply the church conducting church business. Pray that God will continue to lead in all that happens within His body.
Ray Jones Haven't really seen the Yea group give in scriptures, all I heard from that side is that it is culturally acceptable in US to have ordain women.
*****
Well, you may well be directing your question to the wrong person - I have not been an Adventist for a number of years. I am a Christian however - and I have followed the goings-on in the SDA church and find myself weighing in on some of the their items of contention from time to time.
But should God's people eat meat? Or should they specifically abstain from meat?
Jesus ate fish and almost certainly would have eaten of the Passover lamb as He grew up. I'm almost certain that Jesus also drank fermented wine.
But as one pastor put it (paraphrasing) - "Judah and surrounding territories did not have local supermarkets replete with refrigerators and frozen food sections. I do believe Jesus ate the healthiest diet that was available to Him. If Jesus were alive on earth today, I think He would almost certainly be a vegetarian." I happen to agree. YMMV.
But considering God's warning to Noah and family in Genesis 9:4-5 and the same restrictions in place in Acts 21:25, I would highly recommend that any Christian in this day and age who chooses to eat red meat should probably slaughter their own meat or find a kosher butcher to slaughter it for them. If the red meat you are preparing to cook really is red - you are definitely eating contrary to God's word in both Old and New Testaments.
*****
I have no particular disagreement with anything you said. I do believe that a vegetarian diet is the best. But have you seen the number of us vegetarians who are still obese (me included)?!?! A vegetarian diet may be the healthiest, but that does not mean that vegetarians are necessarily healthier than those who eat meat!
As far as Daniel is concerned, I do not know that he and his three friends _chose_ a vegetarian diet. Can you imagine the difficulty of speaking the the chief of the eunuchs thus: "Well, you see - we need meat that only comes from animals that have cloven hooves *and* chew the cud. The animals must have their throats cut and not be strangled. If you give us fish, they must have fins and scales. Fowl cannot be predators and cannot have webbed feet. Oh! And could you only bring meat that is not offered to your gods?"
No, no - I believe they would have chosen the pulse diet for the convenience of dealing with the chief of eunuchs even if they normally ate meat.
Ameen..God help our church and our leaders....that they may continue standing for the truth...no matter where we had reached in today world....fight for UA people God and use our leaders to speak on your behalf....bless SDA church allover the world...we need the unity of our father's that they have
Has anyone bothered to ask how many delegates voted NO because of the implication of the wording of the question--the implication that authority to ordain someone to the gospel ministry is obtained from or through the General Conference?
Yes Sir,there was a winner,God's truth Won! It's now 2019, and Women are still being ordained as Elders & even Pastors.Can someone, maybe Elder Ted Wilson tell me why this vote seems to be shelved?
To Ray Jones... your comment is excellent, but would like to add one only from me:To reach a common ground would go against what is in the bible.This was all about what is written in the scriptures. As a sda myself, placed a few comments as well, I strongly feel we true sda should never try to negotiate over prophecy.Just thinking about this, what is next? the group(GC) , already became different. Oh, how many pastors claim not to have the approval to preach like before, myself even being in this faith since birth, and know where we are presntly in Revelation, yet was deeply affected emotionaly over all these "look warm", or even worse.Myself believe, pastors are in a crucial situation. About taxes, being removed meaning exemptions, then probably they might be persecuted retro to pay back all. This in case they decide to break off from this organized ,manipulated changes.However we shall remember how Jesus died for us,all Now it is our turn to show , nothing matters , we need to come boldly to Jesus ,giving it all to him.Remebember Daniel...
It was a bit of a close call wasn't it?
may God of God bless you so much because you follow the
we should just pray for each other.because this my friends is nothing compared to what is coming.next would be the issue of same sex marriage and compulsory sunday worship.and i bet you that the outcome will be different this time since we are already softening our tone on the matter of homosexuality and the roman catholic church being the beast of revelation.that was the perfect timing for our president to blur it out all across the world but he did not .so i am more concern about what he did not say than what he did. .WHEN WE SEE THESE THINGS HAPPENING SCRIPTURE SAYS LOOK UP FOR OUR REDEMPTION DRAWETH NIGH
+timelesskoontah ...I worry about the same-sex marriages, abortions of life which God planted into the wombs Himself (He said that He "knew" us before we were in the womb), but I don't worry about compulsory Sunday worship. Why? Because under Christ, it says that we are to worship "on the first day of the week" in the New T. And Saturday is NOT the first day of the week. Under Mosaic Law, they were told to honor the Sabbath, but we are not told this, since the Cross.
This has ALWAYS bothered me! I have a brain that God gave me, and I pray before reading scripture that God will help me to understand it the way HE wants me to understand it... not how mortals TELL me to understand it. I started doing that over 25 yrs ago, and my eyes have been opened by God to so much understanding of scripture, since I started praying for wisdom in understanding His holy Word.
+Meagan Kelly Meagan my friend I know sincerely that you are sincere in what you are saying but I have to respectfully say that I disagree and that you are incorrect. if you can show me where in the new testament we are told to worship God I will abandon Sabbath and keep it. also my friend if you would like can you send me all the proof from scripture please I want to see them for myself. God bless you my friend.
+Meagan Kelly to confirm your uneasiness with that read Hebrews chapter 4 and tell me what you think. you seems to be a nice and sincere person based on your response to my comment. i believe also that you are searching for the truth as found in scripture. so please my friend read Hebrews 4.when you're done there are some more I would like you to read and then let us see if you still believe that we are to worship on the SUN's day
Meagan Kelly can you show us the text of the bible where it says "under Christ we are to worship on the first day of the week"...please?
They can't cause it is not there...Period.
I celebrate with caution. To imagine that such a clear issue is brought for vote in the remnant church is spiritually traumatising. Next time we will be voting for whether pastor Doug Bachelor is male or female. Its not about democracy but principle. If God was a democrat, he should have killed Noah and saved the whole world. I was born catholic but celebrate the mighty hand of Jesus to have taken me into the remnant. I abhor the compromises cripling in.
Ellen G White was a founder ! How ironic ! Minister Harrison
well I see pastors that baptize and preach all over, why are they aloud, is like they said no, just to have more everywhere.
To Shan dapa... Yes brother tthat is correct. Without a doubt these GC.are weak, and they have no light in them. What would Jesus say? "HYPOCRITE".
5 vote abstain
977 yes
1381 No
If the ordained pastor represents Christ, then a woman as an ordained pastor
would symbolize Jesus coming back for HER BRIDE the Church-LESBIANISM!
Just what the devil ordered-to desecrate the marriage of the Lamb!.
+Meagan Kelly The Church is Christ's Bride. Do the math, ONE bride, ONE faith, ONE Church. Not brides, not churches, and not faiths. Christ will return for His bride THE CHURCH--do the math! Christ is not returning for HER Bride--do the math: female + female =..If you are going to argue a point, please make sense!
+ASpen Fp ...I'm sorry that you weren't able to understand what I was saying. I never said ANYTHING to insinuate that there was more than one 'bride'. In fact, I plainly said that women AND men made up "the bride of Christ" - the church as a whole. (One church--includes both male & female Christians.) That is fact based upon scripture. I can't figure out how in the world you deduced what you said above, from what I wrote.
Please try reading it again. I have tried to simplify, below, what I said before. (Although no one else seemed to have any trouble with it.)
Here goes again, but more simplified:
Under your scenario, it would then be male homosexualism when Jesus comes back to collect His church, if it includes MALE servants. That is.. the church "as a whole" is Christ's bride--it is composed of both men & women servants of the Lord--Christians!
A pastor does not "represent" Christ, but rather SERVES Christ as a shepherd of Christ's flock - the church... 'keeping' members in the fold, or 'bringing them BACK to the fold', if they have 'strayed'. It says in the Word of God that pastors (also called shepherds, elders, & bishops interchangeably in the Bible) are responsible for their SOULS--an awesome responsibility!But I agree w/you that a woman cannot serve as a pastor, elder, or shepherd, b/c the New T. is very clear in this commandment. It says that a woman cannot serve as an elder/pastor/shepherd, b/c to qualify for that office, "he" must be the husband of one wife, and also must have children. A WOMAN could not have "one wife"! (Now that would REALLY be lesbianism! And yet there are churches which allow women to preach, and also to serve as an elder/pastor.)
Want to READ the qualifications? See Titus 1:6, and 1 Tim 3. It also states in 1 Cor. 14:33-35, "Let your women keep silent in the churches", and that if there is something she wants or needs to know (the word "learn" is used in some versions), she is to ask her husband. Of course if she is single or a widow, she would then need to go to one of the well-established and approved male members of the church, or the elders/pastors privately - i.e. outside the church worship services... "for it is a shame for women to speak in the church", says verse 35 in the scripture mentioned above (1 Cor 14.)I am wondering, therefore, why this issue even came up in the church that's featured in this video: Just read what the BIBLE says, and let the Word of GOD settle the issue! After all, it was God who led the writers of the Bible in what to write: "All scripture is given by inspiration of God", 2 Tim 3:16.
+Meagan Kelly Once again, ONE CHURCH ONE BRIDE not males and females--stick with the symbolism; Christ is not coming back for churches, but for HIS ONE BRIDE. Christ marries His Bride the Church--not males and females. The pastor is to shepherd the flock like the GOOD SHEPHERD, Christ Jesus, whom he is to represent. By your reasoning, using a piano/organ to praise the LORD or using electricity to preach the Word is adding to the Word--make sense!
+ASpen Fp ... I don't know if you are male or female, but you talk (write) both in circles, AND very condescendingly, which is, to say the least, most unchristian-like. I therefore refuse to keep casting my pearls before swine, per God's commandments.
You even try to prove present-day worship methods (i.e., our worship since Christ came and blotted out the Old Law) by using MOSAIC scripture. (NOT applicable now, acc. to Col. 2:14!)
I do not wish to discuss those things holy, w/those who have such un-Christian attitudes. I would DEFINITELY be "casting my pearls before swine"!
Please pray about your attitude and condescending nature. People who have a "know-it-all" ego, not only never learn anything, but they certainly won't be able to increase the fold of the Lord w/such an attitude.
(Btw... my degree is in English-Lit, and I have been published quite a few times ((mostly spiritual, but one a children's book, and one a book-LET on dreams--which was including in one of the "Soup for the Soul" books)), so I have no trouble "making sense"; I cannot help it if the reader has problems understanding plainly-worded English.)
+Meagan Kelly Can you please make sense?
Don't go haveing an opinion nor telling everyone what it is be careful what u say out there is what he's saying
Why no applause? Why should people not praise the LORD (applause) for defeating this evil and false doctrine of culture?
+ASpen Fp ...Because there is nothing in the Bible about the use of "applauding" as praise. We are not to "add to", nor "take from" what is written in God's Word, acc. to the NT.
Remember that in Lev. 10, God struck Nadab and Abihu dead for just using a different incense (or fire) in their worship to God, than what He had commanded. Then God told Aaron, their father, not to even mourn them lest he, as well, be carried out of the temple dead.
IT IS IRONIC WHY AREN'T THE TWO WOMEN ON THE PODIUM PRAYING
timelesskoontah
lol, I noticed the same thing
maybe they thought just the audience was to do this, idk
Michelle D i will assume that you are correct lol lol.on the other hand i hope they aren't pissed off cause their motion was not passed.
+timelesskoontah They look it don't they DON'T CLAP! lol he might aswell have said dont rejoice and don't praise God! See their faces they look so disappointed no smile nothing!!!
Shan Dappa while that is true we should just pray for each other.because this my friends is nothing compared to what is coming.next would be the issue of same sex marriage.and i bet you that the outcome will be different this time since we are already softening our tone on the matter.WHEN WE SEE THESE THINGS HAPPENING SCRIPTURE SAYS LOOK UP FOR OUR REDEMPTION DRAWETH NIGH
we need to look up yes sorry to be judgemental but I dont see adventist standing there
does he state the question voted on?
Don't think the forces of evil have given up; and libeals are at best the useful idiots of Satan.
but they allow it now
I am a Deaconness in the North Caribbean Conference...and I preach Sermons....Satan is powerless over women's ordination...we women shall preach the gospel and be richer and more wealthier and more Glorified...I admire Joyce Meyers...
Why world church? Nmmm change that name,If you want by the worldwide church not world church no.why be addicted in the name,call you only Christians...
"let the lord decides...
Total vote
2363 ballot casted, 5 vote abstain
I am so tired of the denomination's resistance to the ordination of women. We are continually told we have to "wait" until some segment becomes educated or ready---perhaps the church might become ready very quickly if its female members decided to withhold their tithe until the church finally said YES to women's ordination. I recall how quickly our racially segregated churches in the south during the 60's and 70's saw fit to integrate under the threat of losing their tax exempt status.
You'll get that support for ordination when you can show a "Thus saith the Lord" straight from the Bible, or even from the pen of Ellen White herself!
To cecill wallace... Well dear first the catholics changed the bible around, Learn your history. And Yes, it is in the bible, but sadly you just speak like someone who never studied the true bible. Sorry, but your comment is based on your false belief. Every living soul who knows the bible , also knows what is written.. So first Read, THEN SPEAK.
Very sad commentary on the SDA church!
why ?
Women are just as qualified as men to serve as ordained pastors and if they feel called to do so, should be allowed to serve in that capacity.
Eat Pork!
A lot of funky stuff goes into pork.