I was a materialist that made a hard left weeks ago towards idealism, NDE experiences of so many people is what i consider a stepping stone toward explaining idealism
The idea of dissociation feels like a regressive state and a limited way to explain consciousness posthumously. Psychedelics don’t reduce brain activity but change which neurons fire and which don’t. It’s not brain death simulation as he’s suggesting.
Psychedelics DO reduce brain activity. I recorded a conversation about this exact topic this week. See here: www.bernardokastrup.com/2014/08/magic-mushrooms-and-brain-activity.html
@@IAmSimonMundie I’m afraid that’s not correct. I work with it. They reduce brain activity of established neural pathways but increase enorm😢those neural pathways that lay dormant/redundant as those were not used. “Use it or lose it” principle. So BK is wrong to only report half of the truth. If you really want significantly reduced brain activity, then take opiates or any of the anaesthetic drugs. But those don’t lead to end of dissociation from nature if humans
Life is the freedom to change and the freedom from 'everything at once' through separation. Without time, you're trapped in a static feedback loop and cannot experience anything at all. A non-dual perspective and nothingness are essentially the same: it's everything with no place to put it.
When you dream at night, you experience other people, places, time and space - until you wake up and realise it was your mind seeming to manifest as all of the above. But a dream is not nothing. Similarly, non-duality is not synonymous with nothingness.
@@ALushPair All 'dimensions' or vectors are concepts within this overarching concept. If you didn't have a concept like time, our 3D space would be static. And if something were to move, its mass would increase exponentially with each passing Planck time. Time is the separation that allows an object to be in multiple places without being everywhere at once. Without time as a separating factor, all the momentum and energy already present in the universe would instantly collapse in on itself. Particles and objects would no longer be able to occupy different positions over time, leading to a catastrophic concentration of mass and energy - like an instantaneous implosion into a supermassive black hole.
I am neither knowing nor am I unknowing that which is referred to as death. I am neither knowing nor am I unknowing that which is referred to as the presence and awareness. Give up. Ask the question with mind, emotion, feelings, and the world of the senses. Ask "What is this knowing and unknowing about that which this refers to as consciousness/awareness/the now? Ask it. Be honest. What answer do you get? No matter what that which is labelled the "awareness now", it defies definition. Take the hint! Anxiety is the fear and desire of knowing and unknowing. When in truth it is about that which is referred to as being. Being what? Do you remember a beginning? Have forgotten an ending? Nonsense!
So, my sole worry is that my soul will forget all the 3d when moving to 5d, interrupting the experience, I wanna be able to contrast slow vs immediate manifestation. The other day I cried because I cannot deal with the fact that I will have an interrupted experience with my nine year old Marco and wife Marija, from this perspective I’m not interested in having a higher soul connection with them up there, I want to have a connection with them as they are quirky and charming down here, I want my downstairs family, not soul upstairs family, I want a continuous experience with them with no memory loss upon ascension, so we can play around with immediate manifestation. As a self described Blu-ray starseed I might not make it to 5d, might be send somewhere else, I want to see new earth with uninterrupted memory and family, I also really want to see how things are ran upstairs, from my current perspective my sole affirmation that it’s a moral organization is that it seems to optimize for discern and moral agency.
As the great mystics of various cultures and spiritual traditions have said, you cannot explain or know Truth with the intellect. This is just some guy's intellectual ego babbling away. "Be careful. The moment you start talking you create a verbal universe, a universe of words, ideas, concepts and abstractions, interwoven and interdependent, most wonderfully generating, supporting and explaining each other and yet all without essence or substance, mere creations of the mind. Words create words, reality is silent." ~Sri Nisargadatta~
@@IAmSimonMundie My brother, your guest was not aware that his intellectual ego was babbling away. Thus, he kept doing it. Nisargadatta was offering his students a very clear warning about the danger of allowing your intellectual ego to babble away. Or, to use a bit of humor: your guest's intellectual ego thought that it was swimming in a deep golden sea, so it kept swimming, but all along it was just peeing on itself in a kiddie pool. But, at least he kept himself warm.
You are correct that the *ultimate* truth cannot be known with the intellect, and yet the intellect has it's place. Nisargadatta used his intellect when he spoke to visitors, managed his business, paid bills, raised his kids, etc. Likewise, you are only able to share your comment here because thousands of intellects created computers, the internet, cameras, harnessed electricity, and so on. I agree that western philosophy's attempt to reach the absolute through the intellect is a failed endeavor, but in this video Kastrop is making logical inferences about the independence of consciousness from the physical body, and on a relative level I think they are sound and worthy of consideration. Adi Shankara, the founder of nondualism, urged his students to respect the different levels of reality, and to treat each one appropriately. In other words, we put our socks on our feet and our hat on our head, and not the reverse.
@@Jake-n9iYou ironically seem to be full of ego when critiquing his position and yet you actually provided 0 rigorous critique of his position but merely reference somebody else’s thoughts with the assumption that we should all agree with you.
I mean, if this were the case, wouldn't you basically become God (or Mind at Large) temporarily while under anesthesia, and then come back to tell everyone how it looked like?
I think one of the factors might be the way that anaesthesia works on memory. No one reports the memory of having had an experience or sense of time passing because the way memories are formed has been disabled/compromised.
Stuart Hammeroff would say that, under anasthesia, the "mechanisms" (poor wording IMO) that give rise to consciousness are suspended. It's still there, but it's not rising to the surface of our awareness, so to speak. I experienced "waking up" during anasthesia once, which was weird. I remember trying to continue the conversation I had had with the nurse before the mask came on. They gave me some more of the sleep potion and I quickly went back to being unconscious again. I remember that happening, but nothing else while I was "gone". I think consciousness is related to memory, on a fundamental level, but clearly also on a macro level.
What happens when you die is that you realise the point of living is to be present, in the moment, detached from any concepts of past or future, or death. There is no end (nor was there a beginning), it’s all transition.
How do you know? Perhaps there is something but you don't remember it. I don't think you remember what you ate for lunch a year ago today, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen, right?
The magnetic field has noticed that the sound machine is still functioning , its just a little disabled So the magnetic field stays attached to the magnet But if you imagine in the tiny little LEFT PFC, noises and then construct those noises to have imaginary meanings and place importance on them , because your a "copycat" And you expect that delusion to continue after the LEFT PFC dies, "what can I say"
Anaesthesia only means that *embodied* consciousness is affected by the anaesthetics that are put into the body. This is not proof that disembodied consciousness doesn’t exist (i.e. that consciousness is generated solely by the brain). After all, if you cut an electrical wire in two an electric current can no longer flow along it, but we do not thereby conclude that the unbroken wire is itself generating the electric current that it carries.
Yes 👍 beautiful perspectives 🤩 From the currently accessible perspective 😇 , the death of a "human" is equivalent to the death of a role actor in a film 😜 . In other words, if you = human being die now for whatever reason ⚡️👀 , then you = spirit (which you always are), just like when you wake up as a human being after a dream 🙄 , will think to yourself 🫢 Thank God 🙏 it was just another dream 😅 ! Only in the dreamed ( = imagined ) illusion 😵💫 can there be such a thing as "good or evil, alive or dead"! So ask yourself 🤔 who could that be 😜 who is there within God's infinity ⭕️👀 ? and die ? could .........💡🙈 if you understand 🫵 .........? From me to you to us = 1 😇 and otherwise there is none !
The discussion of deep, dreamless sleep is fascinating. Something I've never heard. However, the rest of Bernardo's argument does not work for me. All these states discussed do less to "shut the brain down" than, in particular, the deeper NDEs. The medical data is quite clear on this point. And identity is retained in even the deepest of NDEs. The same is true for many deeper psychedelic experiences, and I speak from experience here. Further, I was one of those crazy teenagers experimenting with choking, a kind of precursor to experimentation with psychedelics. In these experiences, too, identity was retained, for me and others at least. We simply have TWO BASIC TYPES of transcendent experience, one in which identity is dissolved and another in which it is retained. I believe we need metaphysical models that accommodate both basic types, as equally reflective of (different aspects of) greater reality.
I disagree that identity is retained in even the deepest of NDE. NDE'ers regularly report their limited, personal identities dissolving into a vast state of oneness.
While I like BK and thinks that he has many good ideas he weakens these by trying to stay within a quasi materialistic, scientific, psychological paradigm that a reasonable person would abandon upon this discovery. In my opinion once you realize the fundamental non-material nature of existence, you leave childish limited understandings of science, etc. He's like a child who begins riding a three-wheel bike. Later comes to the realization that he has the ability to fly. But rather than concentrating on this ability, and seeing it has no relationship to his previous mode of transportation he confuses it, mixes it, and explains it in line with his understanding of his experience of riding his three-wheel bicycle.
Maybe he's just not for you, at this stage in your journey? If he's getting materialists to start thinking more deeply about these topics, then I'm all for him.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I was a materialist that made a hard left weeks ago towards idealism, NDE experiences of so many people is what i consider a stepping stone toward explaining idealism
Great ad Martin!
Fabulous interview
Excellent.. Great discussion!💡👍
Makes me think of Sheldrake and his take on consciousness being outside of the brain.
And Michael Levin, who says the same, albeit from a very different standpoint.
Exclusively a mental event in consciousness.
Simon will this entire video come to your channel? Love to see the whole conversation.
ua-cam.com/video/MQuMzocvmTQ/v-deo.html - you can watch it here :)
Is it possible to listen to the complete interview?
ua-cam.com/video/MQuMzocvmTQ/v-deo.html
Thank you very much
The idea of dissociation feels like a regressive state and a limited way to explain consciousness posthumously. Psychedelics don’t reduce brain activity but change which neurons fire and which don’t. It’s not brain death simulation as he’s suggesting.
Psychedelics DO reduce brain activity. I recorded a conversation about this exact topic this week. See here: www.bernardokastrup.com/2014/08/magic-mushrooms-and-brain-activity.html
@@IAmSimonMundie I’m afraid that’s not correct. I work with it. They reduce brain activity of established neural pathways but increase enorm😢those neural pathways that lay dormant/redundant as those were not used. “Use it or lose it” principle. So BK is wrong to only report half of the truth. If you really want significantly reduced brain activity, then take opiates or any of the anaesthetic drugs. But those don’t lead to end of dissociation from nature if humans
enormously, not 😢
Life is the freedom to change and the freedom from 'everything at once' through separation.
Without time, you're trapped in a static feedback loop and cannot experience anything at all.
A non-dual perspective and nothingness are essentially the same:
it's everything with no place to put it.
"it's everything with no place to put it" - very well said!
When you dream at night, you experience other people, places, time and space - until you wake up and realise it was your mind seeming to manifest as all of the above. But a dream is not nothing. Similarly, non-duality is not synonymous with nothingness.
Time doesn't exist to begin with past and future are just concepts
@@ALushPair All 'dimensions' or vectors are concepts within this overarching concept.
If you didn't have a concept like time, our 3D space would be static.
And if something were to move, its mass would increase exponentially with each passing Planck time.
Time is the separation that allows an object to be in multiple places without being everywhere at once.
Without time as a separating factor, all the momentum and energy already present in the universe would instantly collapse in on itself. Particles and objects would no longer be able to occupy different positions over time, leading to a catastrophic concentration of mass and energy - like an instantaneous implosion into a supermassive black hole.
@thomasschon past and future don't exist, change happens, our concept of time is merely imagination projected upon it
From what i understood, you will look for another body to occupy. Unless offcourse you are self realized and understand whats going on.
Rupert Spira and Richard Dawkins conversation anyone
I am neither knowing nor am I unknowing that which is referred to as death.
I am neither knowing nor am I unknowing that which is referred to as the presence and awareness.
Give up.
Ask the question with mind, emotion, feelings, and the world of the senses. Ask "What is this knowing and unknowing about that which this refers to as consciousness/awareness/the now? Ask it. Be honest. What answer do you get? No matter what that which is labelled the "awareness now", it defies definition. Take the hint!
Anxiety is the fear and desire of knowing and unknowing.
When in truth it is about that which is referred to as being. Being what? Do you remember a beginning? Have forgotten an ending? Nonsense!
So, my sole worry is that my soul will forget all the 3d when moving to 5d, interrupting the experience, I wanna be able to contrast slow vs immediate manifestation. The other day I cried because I cannot deal with the fact that I will have an interrupted experience with my nine year old Marco and wife Marija, from this perspective I’m not interested in having a higher soul connection with them up there, I want to have a connection with them as they are quirky and charming down here, I want my downstairs family, not soul upstairs family, I want a continuous experience with them with no memory loss upon ascension, so we can play around with immediate manifestation. As a self described Blu-ray starseed I might not make it to 5d, might be send somewhere else, I want to see new earth with uninterrupted memory and family, I also really want to see how things are ran upstairs, from my current perspective my sole affirmation that it’s a moral organization is that it seems to optimize for discern and moral agency.
As the great mystics of various cultures and spiritual traditions have said, you cannot explain or know Truth with the intellect. This is just some guy's intellectual ego babbling away.
"Be careful. The moment you start talking you create a verbal universe, a universe of words, ideas, concepts and abstractions, interwoven and interdependent, most wonderfully generating, supporting and explaining each other and yet all without essence or substance, mere creations of the mind. Words create words, reality is silent." ~Sri Nisargadatta~
Was Nisargadatta talking when he said that? ;)
@@IAmSimonMundie My brother, your guest was not aware that his intellectual ego was babbling away. Thus, he kept doing it. Nisargadatta was offering his students a very clear warning about the danger of allowing your intellectual ego to babble away. Or, to use a bit of humor: your guest's intellectual ego thought that it was swimming in a deep golden sea, so it kept swimming, but all along it was just peeing on itself in a kiddie pool. But, at least he kept himself warm.
You are correct that the *ultimate* truth cannot be known with the intellect, and yet the intellect has it's place. Nisargadatta used his intellect when he spoke to visitors, managed his business, paid bills, raised his kids, etc. Likewise, you are only able to share your comment here because thousands of intellects created computers, the internet, cameras, harnessed electricity, and so on.
I agree that western philosophy's attempt to reach the absolute through the intellect is a failed endeavor, but in this video Kastrop is making logical inferences about the independence of consciousness from the physical body, and on a relative level I think they are sound and worthy of consideration.
Adi Shankara, the founder of nondualism, urged his students to respect the different levels of reality, and to treat each one appropriately. In other words, we put our socks on our feet and our hat on our head, and not the reverse.
@@Jake-n9iYou ironically seem to be full of ego when critiquing his position and yet you actually provided 0 rigorous critique of his position but merely reference somebody else’s thoughts with the assumption that we should all agree with you.
I had a 19 minute flatline. There was nothing.
I mean, if this were the case, wouldn't you basically become God (or Mind at Large) temporarily while under anesthesia, and then come back to tell everyone how it looked like?
Wouldn’t Anasthesia be more analogous to death? AFAIK I haven’t and nobody has any sense of experience or even the sense of time having passed
I can’t recall where I read this, but being under anesthesia isn’t the same. Someone smarter than me could certainly explain it 😬
I think one of the factors might be the way that anaesthesia works on memory. No one reports the memory of having had an experience or sense of time passing because the way memories are formed has been disabled/compromised.
I have recorded a conversation addressing that this week, that I will put out early next year. Suffice to say, consciousness is always on.
Stuart Hammeroff would say that, under anasthesia, the "mechanisms" (poor wording IMO) that give rise to consciousness are suspended. It's still there, but it's not rising to the surface of our awareness, so to speak.
I experienced "waking up" during anasthesia once, which was weird. I remember trying to continue the conversation I had had with the nurse before the mask came on. They gave me some more of the sleep potion and I quickly went back to being unconscious again. I remember that happening, but nothing else while I was "gone". I think consciousness is related to memory, on a fundamental level, but clearly also on a macro level.
I'll let Stuart Hammeroff explain it: ua-cam.com/video/N0hU6CZok34/v-deo.html
Anyone who says they know what happens when we die can safely be ignored.
Just notice that Kastrup didn't say that. The video is poorly titled, probably to get more views.
Oh, I know! I know!
When you die, you change.
Why should we believe your belief that we can’t know?
What happens when you die is that you realise the point of living is to be present, in the moment, detached from any concepts of past or future, or death. There is no end (nor was there a beginning), it’s all transition.
An obvious counter-argument - what about anaesthesia? When you're out, you're totally out, there's absolutely noting in-between.
How do you know? Perhaps there is something but you don't remember it. I don't think you remember what you ate for lunch a year ago today, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen, right?
The magnetic field has noticed that the sound machine is still functioning , its just a little disabled
So the magnetic field stays attached to the magnet
But if you imagine in the tiny little LEFT PFC, noises and then construct those noises to have imaginary meanings and place importance on them , because your a "copycat"
And you expect that delusion to continue after the LEFT PFC dies, "what can I say"
Anaesthesia only means that *embodied* consciousness is affected by the anaesthetics that are put into the body. This is not proof that disembodied consciousness doesn’t exist (i.e. that consciousness is generated solely by the brain). After all, if you cut an electrical wire in two an electric current can no longer flow along it, but we do not thereby conclude that the unbroken wire is itself generating the electric current that it carries.
The magnetic field never dies, just the sound machine dies , the False idol
FIRST
Yes 👍 beautiful perspectives 🤩
From the currently accessible perspective 😇 , the death of a "human" is equivalent to the death of a role actor in a film 😜 . In other words, if you = human being die now for whatever reason ⚡️👀 , then you = spirit (which you always are), just like when you wake up as a human being after a dream 🙄 , will think to yourself 🫢 Thank God 🙏 it was just another dream 😅 ! Only in the dreamed ( = imagined ) illusion 😵💫 can there be such a thing as "good or evil, alive or dead"!
So ask yourself 🤔 who could that be 😜 who is there within God's infinity ⭕️👀 ? and die ? could .........💡🙈 if you understand 🫵 .........?
From me to you to us = 1 😇 and otherwise there is none !
The discussion of deep, dreamless sleep is fascinating. Something I've never heard. However, the rest of Bernardo's argument does not work for me. All these states discussed do less to "shut the brain down" than, in particular, the deeper NDEs. The medical data is quite clear on this point. And identity is retained in even the deepest of NDEs. The same is true for many deeper psychedelic experiences, and I speak from experience here. Further, I was one of those crazy teenagers experimenting with choking, a kind of precursor to experimentation with psychedelics. In these experiences, too, identity was retained, for me and others at least. We simply have TWO BASIC TYPES of transcendent experience, one in which identity is dissolved and another in which it is retained. I believe we need metaphysical models that accommodate both basic types, as equally reflective of (different aspects of) greater reality.
I disagree that identity is retained in even the deepest of NDE. NDE'ers regularly report their limited, personal identities dissolving into a vast state of oneness.
While I like BK and thinks that he has many good ideas he weakens these by trying to stay within a quasi materialistic, scientific, psychological paradigm that a reasonable person would abandon upon this discovery. In my opinion once you realize the fundamental non-material nature of existence, you leave childish limited understandings of science, etc. He's like a child who begins riding a three-wheel bike. Later comes to the realization that he has the ability to fly. But rather than concentrating on this ability, and seeing it has no relationship to his previous mode of transportation he confuses it, mixes it, and explains it in line with his understanding of his experience of riding his three-wheel bicycle.
That's why his view is called analytic idealism.he has explained that in the past several times
His perspective is necessary, all perspectives are necessary.
Maybe he's just not for you, at this stage in your journey? If he's getting materialists to start thinking more deeply about these topics, then I'm all for him.
Rubbish
@@clivejenkins4033your view indeed is
Nothing.
Nothing happens.
Just you’ve never existed.
The problem with that is, Nothing starts from nothing.