Its funny. My single black mother at the time gave me the "i dont got to like you" speech. Thats speech is a curse that ruins child parent relationships. Cause i really realised this is nothing more than a job. My mother grew softer as time passed and i had siblings and she got married. But still it caused an undeniable rift
It's still really bad but it comes from a different place with mothers, a place that only makes sense to the person in it. If a person went through the trials and tribulations of pregnancy as a single black mother then goes on to raise you as a single black mother, where does such a damaging speech fit into that? I'd be more confused that hurt...
My birther didn't give me that speech, but other words she said, and her actions showed me she did not give a f-k about me. I haven't felt love from that woman for as long as I can remember (4). I'll be 40 in nov. 🤷🏾♀️
"I wish I never had you" and "I brought you into this world, I can (have the right to?) take you out of it" are two phrases no parent, whether it be mother or father should ever say but too many do.
My (white) mother has a similar mentality. It's kinda surreal listening to a parent say that they value you less then they food you give you, sure brings alot of other shit to light. I don't genuinely don't believe anyone can believe that, but they act like it. And if they can't figure it out, and they can't change then... I won't be talking to mine for much longer.
Oh yes, the Black dad who doesn’t know how to convey his emotions, express himself, or say sorry, but also comes off as unapproachable, angry and irritated. Doesn’t know how to relate to his child, but does know how to yell and berate you. The roots of that kind of parenting impact run deep. We’re in a better place now, but years of therapy doesn’t de-root the whole garden.
fr man, it took my brothers death at the hands of the police for my dad to break down his walls, in the fucking twilight of his life, but i guess it better than no progress and hes better with his grandkids. My nephew runs my dads house doing shit that wouldve gotten me put through a wall.
@@princejellyfish3945hard disagree. hard. My white friends dads were nothing like mine. They were always trying to be friends with their sons, i heard my friends dads say they loved ME more then my own father growing up.
A character I've always wanted to study in the context of black manhood, fatherhood, and masculinity is Julius from Everybody Hates Chris. There was a line in the first episode of the series that struck me “My father wasn't the type to say I love you. He was one of four fathers on the block I'll see you in the morning meant he was coming home. Coming home was his way of saying I love you.”
Hard realization for me was reliving my formative years, trying to recall a single time my dad said "i love you" My dad the same a Julius, and Julius dad. I plan to change that with my kids. They will see a respectable, male figure in their life, that is not afraid to be emotional with his kids.
I can relate. My Dad never told me that he loved me…not in 84 years…well 50 for me. But…but we had a home, two cars, plenty of food, nice clothes, I could always get money out of him (more so than from my tight fisted Mom 😂)…I never got a, “I’m sorry, I was wrong, my bad etc”. The WORK that we must do within ourselves in order to reconcile this is great…it’s a big job, but not impossible. I’m proud to say that I did NOT carry on this Negro PTSD to my children. We hug, say I love you, I’ve apologized for any past indescresions raising them as a young, naive single Mom of two. If a child can get that…it’s a start. I never had that..the acknowledgment of wrongdoing, unfairness, no emotional connection…but I had two parents that showed up everyday and that alone gave me a strong sense of security that many of my peers did not have in the drug run of the 80’s/90’s…and I thank my parents for that. My Mom is still alive, my Dad passed three years ago. I feel blessed to have done my best to understand that my parents had their own unaddressed issues whilst still managing to cover the basics…and I realize that some of us didn’t even get that. Forgiveness and understanding is for YOU. Happy Mothers Day, may you and yours be blessed and stay safe.❤❤❤
What’s crazy is that “I don’t like you” conversation is precisely what made me fall back from my own parents. It reeks of unfounded resentment toward children that never asked to be here today.
My mom would do this to me as a means to inflict emotional pain to manipulate me. She thinks shes better than other women and to an extent, she is and isn't to me. She comes off as controlling regardless if I'm independent or she's the one involved
years ago my class acted out fences for school and even though it was my friend, a woman, reading the lines- i was rose on the side feeling my heart sink hearing it. being reminded of how the men in my family feel
I mean I'm not sure size and necessity of the role is what dictates. Whether it's a leading or supporting role, I mean the huge and very important role of Hannibal in silence of the lambs was a supporting role. So it's no less prestigious really to get the supporting actor Oscar it really is just a matter of screen time I think.
@@madcat789 Can not viola and stone both be amazing? Is it not the system snubbing one more? Does it help to take down one woman in defense of one who is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy under loved by the institution? Viola deserves sooooooo much more 10 toes down. But, stone is still good too. Differently in a way, I might argue. Viola is dope, period.
@@ryanfitzgerald9833Except she literally played the same role in the film that she did a few years before on Broadway (winning the Best Actress Tony). They did something similar years before when they nominated Haley Joel Osment for Best Supporting Actor in The Sixth Sense, despite the fact that the movie revolves around him.
So all of us black Baltimore kids had the same elementary school experience and scars from that damn museum.... I was in fifth grade at that time. I still think about the sights and sounds from those exhibits. The room where they showcased lynchings and the jars of castrated body parts still haunts me.
I am Black, queer, ND and AFAB. I cried when I watched Fences because Troy was literally EXACTLY LIKE my mom. Like, everything he said in that movie to his sons literally reminded me of her. My mother hated me and destroyed everything I loved and wouldnt let me date or have friends because she never got to have the things i had. She literally would say "If I had to suffer you do too!" She is literally the reason I couldnt go to college and basically do anything. I excelled and exceeded her in everything. I played music and was first chair in band in school and was about to be a conductor, she destroyed my instruments and I had to withdraw from band in highschool because she took away my instrument and destroyed it. I made sculptures, illustrated and painted, she trashed my art table, my supplies, and literally snapped my pencils and brushes in half. She also literally set my art on fire in the fireplace. I entered art contests, joined and ran clubs in school and started getting awards, and she would remove me from extra curricular activities. When I studied and tried to work in college she would kick my doors down and scream at me. She refused to sign financial aid citing that i needed to "WORK" for my education and she is not paying for it. Im now 30 and married to a great person and just now able to persue art and my hobbies as well as have access to mental health care and start to rebuild my life again.
I have to disagree about the (black people don’t care if your queer, if you don’t show too much) statement. In my experience, doing too much is literally the same as walking down the street as a straight person. The funny thing about Chiron is he isn’t even the gayest acting dude, and that is what makes his character even more important. Do to patriarchy we assume that gay dudes are mistreated because they overemphasize their queerness, like wear dresses and wigs and acrylic nails. But in fact, all it takes is a little flick of the wrist and a high pitched voice. And that’s it, no extra theatrics needed for homophobia. To clarify, I’m not saying your homophobic and shit, I’m just adding context being a big black queer man from the Bible Belt of south Mississippi. I just noticed that homohobes use that logic of don’t shove it down our throats and I just noticed how the measurement of “too much” has always been a case by case basis.
Yea too much is just being gay to them. Funny how you being your self is shoving it. Honestly they would prefer you either stay alone for life or convert to Jesus as a gay and say your sinful. lol I chose neither and I’m bi, shit still piss my mom off even if with a dude
No too much is you being out there and overstepping boundaries. The fact that you don't recognize this as happening disingenuous. You aren't 'always' victims. Far from it.
As someone who had a falling out with my dad this year where we aren't talking, it's nice to watch a nuanced video about black fatherhood because it makes it easier to have empathy for the man and I appreciate your work
I just moved out of my father's house because of the type issues around having a black dad. In the case of being a daughter, the dynamics obviously have their similarities and differences to being a son. I feel like, as a daughter of an African immigrant, youre simultaneously better protected but also treated like an emotional dumping ground/punching bag. You're seen but not heard, you're no real threat but you're also hyper managed. They cannot fathom that you could also share in the rage, bitterness and disillusionment of the men. That you could dare to not want it or stand up for yourself. My father was shocked when i left despite almost a decade of emotional blackmail and mental abuse whilst upkeeping the household and trying to be the perfect daughter. It reminds me of this quote 'men are often shocked their daughters arent as forgiving as their wives ' or something to that extent. I now understand why so many of the black women in my life (including my mother) have such resilient spirits and hard demeanors. Being an eldest or only daughter can be a baptism of fire but im finding as I get older i have this bottomless reserve of strength and i feel myself standing a little taller.
Dude I'm gen z and I relate to a lot of that. I love my dad, he's my best friend, but I also got the "I don't got to like you" speech, and all the other speeches and lectures. But what makes me and my father different is that he tells me about his childhood, his feelings of masculinity and having to perform it, because he wants me to be raised better than his father raised him. It's all just so interesting.
I grew up with a very abusive father and living in poverty. I am white, but I mostly hung around Spannish and black people. While I don't personally relate to the racial aspects of the topics you cover, I do relate to a lot of similar traumas. Plus, I experienced my friends going through the struggles that racism put on them. I do value your videos a lot, and thank you.
This video has been the best thing I've seen all week. A lot of people from different backgrounds relating their stories here. I honestly think one day there will be a new diagnosis, not like BPD but something different that labels this kind of father. The abusive, possibly violent (in my case physical abuse) always mental abuse, who is very impossible. You can be a perfect kid with straight A's but the abuse will continue. You will never hear a sorry, even if you are treated horrendously by a misjudged incident (by his own definition). Inability to feel guilt, even acknowledgement of guilt just makes them angry. A repeated excuse especially due to knowing how ugly their behaviour is "Well I don't have to be friends with you, you're my son". While other fathers tell their sons about the world. Mentor them on relationships. Want them to have an easy life where they struggled. It's as if this type of father has insecurity from childhood and subconsciously hates to see a young boy have confidence and his whole life ahead of him, be happy and enjoy his youth, take advantage of his more care free years to socially blossom, In my case my father was totally pampered, he had a rich father. His father allowed him to do anything, go out late, have fun, have many girlfriends. Whereas I was abused day after day as a small boy, when I became a teen he would berate me for going out and having a social life, then also berate me for being introverted and lacking confidence. It's like seeing their likeness, young (something they can never get back) happy hurts them. It's such a weird complex and the sad result is they don't stop until likely some children snap, attempt or commit sewyside (sp for youtube filters), have a broken life and inability to thrive. I always wonder how many young men are robbed of their future due to this. I could go on and on about how senseless it is and reading others stories here we all suffered the same. The excuse of the macho mentality "well I don't have to be your friend" is so tragic because if you go on the Fences video you see so many people acting like Troy is a good father, not someone with clear issues. That's the thing, bragging about "putting a roof over your head" and "food on the table" is stupid. You give your son life you owe that as a bare minimum not to be an incompetent father. It's not something to brag about and hold over someones head. And I'm sure others experienced the threats of homelessness, you don't like how I abuse you how about you go live on the street huh, oh what's that I've ruined your future so now you are more dependent on me, great now I can treat you with even more impunity and hold it over your head. I have to stop here but guys, we all have our experiences, our trauma and our wish we had better. We had to watch other people who had normal simple relationships and wondered "why me?". The best thing to do is to break the cycle. I cannot wait until I settle down with a good woman and I have my own son so I can do right. I learned so much about how not to be a father and I have so much love to give to my future family having seen how I still managed to succeed but would have achieved incredible things if I not only didn't have the abuse to deal with but true love and support the whole way through.
95% of what you say applies directly to my lived experience with my father, and social pressure to perform masculinity in a working class neighborhood. I grew up with the 'I'm not your friend! I don't have to like you!' speech monthly. The 'You live under my roof, eat my food, you OWE me!'. Of course there was also the classic 'I could throw you out on the street any time I want!' just about weekly from age 10 to 18. As I got older, I started to bloom like so many people do. He dedicated a disappointing amount of energy into a duality of disparaging me, while simultaneously trying to take credit for any victories I had. My dad was not black, but he was an immigrant, a refugee. He didn't pass as white for the first 30 years of his life, but I really don't think that had anything to do with it. He was raised badly. He learned how to parent badly, and he swallowed patriarchy hook line and sinker. He wasn't self reflective enough to understand the harm he was doing, or how he could be better. And he was bitter, resentful, and entitled. And even if he could understand the harm, I don't think he could bring himself to sincerely care enough about other human beings to be willing to change anything. Troy isn't an avatar of a certain kind of black man per'se, he's the avatar of a certain kind of narcissist boomer who was raised with a particular style of parenting in a time with specific ideas of manhood. As best as I can tell, blackness in this story acts only as that old additional qualifier: 'All of that, but also all the unfair pressures applied to black folk living under our contemporary expression of white supremacy'. Whether that makes things additively or exponentially more stressful is not something I can know. My two cents anyways, great video Bill.
@@jimmyalfonda3536 Nope, his skin just went from brown to white as he got older. Same thing happened to his mother. I never met my grandfather from that side so I don't know how he was. I think this is pretty common for people from some communities in eastern europe and the balkans, places that had a lot of Turkish influence from the Ottoman period. That side of my family is Magyar.
Troy is a Black character embedded in a political saga that started way before he got there. Troy’s Blackness is central to this story - it’s not the only theme- but August Wilson was writing about Blackness in the New World- it’s specific yet can be appreciated thematically for sure. The themes are universal- the added component of race is the specific and does lead to an historical embodied context that does add another level of significance and complexity.
When you mentioned the wax museum I knew they took your baby self down those stairs. I went to a blackity-black elementary school and after showing us Roots in 5th grade they dragged our lil selves all the way down from New York to this museum. It was INSANE and our teachers were crazy for taking us there. Like damn I was so freaked out I refused to go down there. Thankfully my mom was there so I didn’t have to but this museum was something else. I never understood the point in traumatizing kids when there were better ways to get points across but I guess it goes back to that mentality if they don’t literally beat us into shape first (physically or mentally) the world won’t hesitate to break us down harder.
So do these dads give thw "i dont have to like you" speech to cover up how they really feel? Or do they really not like their kids but raise them anyways because they were taught "thats what youre supposed to do as a man?"
Vulnerability. They are afraid if they show vulnerabilities that you will too in the world. They want you to keep your fence up so no one can hurt you. They weren't taught how to be safe AND vulnerable and so they dont demonstrate that to the children.
If you actually dont like yourself can you even actually like anyone else? I would say no. Or at least not in the same way people who do like themselves can like other people. Not to say you cant have healthy relationships as a self hating person but i think it does stifle deeper connections.
My dad is Troy to the T. Stereotypcial "strict black dad" like unreasonably strict. When we were grounded it was essentially prison. He would take EVERYTHING from the room. Posters, TVs, my brother, he would even TAKE THE BEDS. Its probably why I'm so comfortable sleeping on the floor. We got the speech more than once in his house. I love that man to death, he did right by us, but damn man he really didnt wanna be a father. Shouldnt have been a father.
I’m white, I’m queer, and from the hood. Many of these archetypes were present for me as well. It felt like “be the provider your father never could be” or “never abuse women and alcohol the way your grandad did” but I never once felt like anybody actually tried to know me for me. It felt like I was just a vessel for the trauma that my fem family members experienced at the hands of my progenitors.
Your identity to them exists only insofar as it can service their desire to see an antithesis to the men in their lives they hold contempt towards. Welcome to being a man today.
I was talking to my dad about the cost of college the other day and he said "You really thought I wasn't gon help you?" and I was shocked cuz all he ever told me was how he built our life from the ground up and I gotta do that too. Every time I brought up college he made it clear I better not ask for money, I'm privileged enough as it is. When I told him the effect of everything her said to me as a kid he was shocked because exactly what you were saying. He thought he was doing so much better than his dad did for him, and that meant he was doing it good enough. I'm glad we got to a point we can have these talks but how did he think I "knew he didn't mean any of it"? Like of course I thought you meant it I was a kid.
Part of me always wondered why I didn't really have a hard time being picked on as a kid despite being small and growing up in a rough area and recently I finally figured out that I think it's because I was taught to be violent very young. One of the few times I asked my dad for advice as a child was about how to know when to stop hitting someone in a fight. In our often fucked up version of being a man it seems like violence is basically a cheat code to people not picking on you. I'm going to teach my son how to be a man without that shit though. Making violence a part of who you are is toxic and eats you from the inside out.
Survival skills my brother some people used violence, some used humour we all were just trying to survive. Once our situations improve and we age we can look back and analyse but at the time it’s hard. If the only tool you have is a hammer. Giving your kids other tools is definitely key but as a father myself I find a lot of the tools I have don’t apply his situations. The best I’ve come up with is getting him to try to acknowledge his emotions and not be controlled by them. I want him to be more stoic but I don’t want him to repress his feelings. As with most things balance is the key but it’s easier said than done.
@@jjrilla___2664 Yeah, I hear that. I used humour mostly at school since most of the kids there were from soft backgrounds. I agree, I'm not nearly as angry at my dad as I was when I was young because I think he just tried to teach me the couple of things he'd found that worked for him. I reckon I'm going to have that issue with my son too. Now that I live in a nicer area I don't really have to worry about him needing to fight physically nearly as much but I also feel out of place and like I can't relate to what he'll need to deal with growing up. I'm just hoping it'll be easier for him and I'll have more to teach than I got taught. I think you're right about having a bigger toolbox being the key.
@FabledAllOut I think you should teach what your father taught you, but also give your kid the history of why you learned it, why your father taught it to you and then ask him to tell you what he's learning in school and what things he's doing differently. Teaching is an important part of learning and personally a lot of fathers rob their kids that experience because they feel like they know better or simply don't have the time.
Largely depends on what you considered being picked on and how your school handled it. I don't know a single person that wasn't atleast made fun of for good reason. However not everyone took it to the level of physicality. Teachers, administrators and even the Principal will overlook the behavior preceding the retaliation and often times just punish the person who did the most damage. Being violent isn't enough to deter kids unless they are craven by nature themselves. They always want to see just how far they can push you.
@@tnk4me4 this is so true. I learned a lot watching my dad and later on figured out why he did the things he did. I’ve tried tell me son things but noticed he mostly has to learn the hard way by going through it himself. It would be could to tell him everything I learned from my dad, my life lessons and hope he makes his on path. Sometimes it comes off as a lecture and I see him switch off 😂
This cuts both ways- my Mother was scapegoated in her family. So was her Mother. So was I. My Mom dealt with devasting trauma, single parenthood and having to be both Mother and Father to me, the youngest, the daughter that is most like her. I got the Troy treatment. And I also have been blessed to do the healing work and my Mom has too. Trauma sucks. Patriarchy sucks. Healing initially sucks, then little by little it gets better. Thank you for these videos Bill- you are awesome.
This video really speaks to me. My father is like Troy, his father was even more like Troy and his grandfather was even further than that. The major difference is that my father realized this, apologized and took the steps to truly be better. I stopped hating him once I truly understood him and why he is the way he is.
I truly love, and am grateful for, you and FD''s content. It's helped me in so many ways, namely with assisting me to truly understand my manhood, as a black man in this country. Thank you
14:30 They way Bill clocked me. I’m a nonbinary person but at the time was presenting female and my father gave me almost the same speech verbatim when I was younger and I vowed to put him in a home when his time comes. My father also said when I asked him why we don’t do family things and his response was “This ain’t The Cosby Show.” He’s going in the worst home.
Sometimes it’s all you can really do, promise yourself they’ll be going in a home 😭. Also let this be a wake up call to anyone who says that having kids means you won’t die alone :)
Honestly, he still raised you and unless you absolutely HATE who you are. Try to see if that relationship gets better later in his life. I find it typically does
Seems a bit extreme on your part. You don’t have to except his attitude, but the man did pay for your food, housing, upbringing, and he did raise you. You don’t know the weight of parenting. Yeah he’s not a good parent, but he did do all those things. For you to then put him in the worst home you can find, seems like you’re doing something even worse to him.
People don’t realize the impact of words especially on impressionable children. You should discipline your kids but it cant always be in a harsh way. You need to balance it out with kind words. You can often unwittingly curse your own children’s as the parents themselves may also have been under similar word curses. “The power of life and death is in the tongue.” Proverbs 18:21
That's why these boys turn into adults they are using their trauma against them parents (especially the mothers) in many ways, till this day and it's funny. I say gen Z will break the curse. 😂😂😂
A lot of being a parent is simply how much of the truth are you willing to tell or even communicate with your child. You realize your kids are learning lessons all through your shared experiences and they will question their own flaws and strengths which reflect on you
It can be applied to any race. All sons want their fathers approval and all fathers wonder if they're enough. If they don't evaluate their parenting, they probably are failing somewhere. No one is perfect
And Arab fathers too...I'll never forgive my father for giving me constant anxiety and stress to the point of where I come home screaming and crying in my pillow to let out my trauma
it applies to literally all western men, we just see bill's presentation of the particular flavor of western masculinity as it pertains to black men. but the bottom core of it all? that's just how patriarchy sets men up. period. regardless of race. that's what toxic masculinity refers to, it refers to masculinity without humanity. hence it has become toxic.
I really needed to hear this and watch this video. My dad passed away earlier this year from some sort of health ailment that had been eating away at him for years (i'm guessing cancer or a stomach blockage), and he was so secretive and alienated himself from my family that we didnt find out until months afterwards. He'd given me the old "I am not your friend, i am your parent" speech but all i asked was that he let me talk to him plainly or for him to listen to me about my day without warping it into a 2 hour lecture about nonsense. Despite all of that, his last two conversations i had with him (on the phone of course) i could tell that he regretted setting that boundary. He'd asked me to call him more. I didn't. And now he's gone. I guess my point is: i think that these dads are so afraid of failing to perform fatherhood or masculinity for their children that they cant bring themselves to be completely open until they know for a fact that it won't matter. Or maybe not. Idk. I can't ask him myself anymore.
7:09 omg there's a similar thing at the Detroit African American History Museum, they took us in like 3rd grade to basically a "middle passage experience" including wax figures, voice acting, and sound effects. it was terrifying. Went back again recently with my boyfriend and it still holds up as scary as ever.
If another man is telling you from his; private cruise ship, second yacht, riverboat house, speed boat, row boat, swan pedal boat, driftwood 'Swim til you get exhausted and drown for our amusement' instead of extending a rescue device or hand. Stop swimming, just float. The day even a man on driftwood, who's about to be killed by a speed boat aiming for you, wants you to drown as if you're why he "only" has driftwood, you're wasting time and energy. Use it instead to dive and avoid the speedboat, y'know, handle each boat as it comes.
Not me tearing up from a review. I'm a queer black woman, so my experience isn't quite the same a a queer black man, but still had a lot of pressure from the community to conform. Great video
Nah sexuality isn’t mutable. It’s def apart of Chiron’s personality. She tried to make him into a “real man” but she makes him just more scared. She probably thinks he’s gay cuz he doesn’t have his biological father present. I do notice that being a visible queer person sadly makes ppl upset because they don’t see queer black folks as people.
I really love your analysis and soft critique of the black masculine experience. Unfortunately women are not always great at breaking the cycle either. It's gonna take everyone together to fix it.
As someone who lost my father (VERY similar to the Denzel character) 2 years ago, and also raised my own sons (currently 24 and 19) to adulthood, while consciously working to be the exact opposite type of father, while, passing along the best parts of what he was to me, this one is hitting different. I rarely leave multiple comments on a single video, but yeah.
Thank you. this touched on a lot of my experiences with my dad especially as a queer black man. As I got older and found out more about his father, I saw he didn’t have the capacity to show me love outside of trying to toughen me up. Great analysis lil b.
Oof. I’d send this to my brother if he wouldn’t call me and curse me out for doing so. He’s so far gone into his performance that it’s all he has left 😢
Reminds me so much of my childhood and the deaths of my brothers, if indirectly, due to paternal abuse. One of the reasons I find films sucj as Fences impossible to watch. Thanks...
I think positive male role models are very important. We're not going to beat back toxic masculinity without a positive version of it. It's the most important thing I can do as a father (and a teacher, though I teach grad students)
I'm a 34 year old black woman, and while I feel indifferent about the decision to have kids, I still struggle to wrap my head around having kids and raising them the best way that I can. I think I struggle because I feel there's just more to wanting to be a parent than just birthing a kid. I think of the responsibility as astronomical, and this scares me. I feel like too many people don't really sit to think about what having kids does to them, to their lives, and if they'll be willing to make the necessary adjustments to their lives and personalities to raise a kid from a blank slate to an adult in a healthy way. Yeah, you lost your job and are frustrated, but a kid does not know that or does not have the mental ability to understand the consequences of it. I forgive my parents for not doing better for my mental and emotional stability, but I am grateful that I am self-aware enough to know that their parenting contributed to my issues. Therapy helps, but the work to be better if I ever have kids primarily lies with me. I hope if I'm ever a parent, I can do better. I'm scared.
my 2 cents on this, i don't think Troy is exclusive a black father figure. I'm hispanic and my father is exactly like troy, minus the infidelity. And like Cory said in his monologue to Troy everyone was afraid of him and it wasn't until I stood up to him that it changed. Now according to the information I can piece together my father's mother and father were equally as bad to his brothers and sisters. Not sure if this is more, we're working poor people trying our best to give our kids more but we're so broken we cannot stop the cycles of abuse.
15 mins in, and this is the video I didn't know I needed. Too bad I have to start work, and make sure these folks do right by me... Can't wait to get back to this tho...
The struggle to just be respected on a human level as a black man is ridiculously exhausting!! I was going to say a lot more, but I am exhausted. 🤦🏽♂️
Great video, and in those last 5 minutes as you deconstructed black masculinity growing up and Chiron's character, I felt unbelievably seen. Growing up as a black boy, I never was the most courageous or aggressive, and I was chastised for that. So in some ways I had to overcompensate in order to be seen properly.... But as I got older, when I was around 17ish, I came to realization of how my overcompensation was actively harming the people I claimed to love. Alongside other personal revelations. Currently I am 21 and I've pretty much rejected the standard for black masculinity that the community seems to hold onto. Anything can happen and I might find myself in the future performing in the same fashion that I rejected, but for now? Fuck that. I'm gonna do me and I want to be that positive male figure for everyone who who may not have that, as I didn't have.
While I’m not black (indigenous) my dad is. Technically he’s my stepdad, but he was my dad and I consider him my dad. From what I know about his early life it wasn’t good for him. He grew up with all the problems that come with growing up in the hood, and how that carried onto his parenting style, mental health and worldview. While, he did what he could for me and my sisters it wasn’t enough and as I get older he got into manosphere shit and I really see how it’s damaging him and his relationship with my younger sisters and it hurts watching that. I really don’t know how to approach that and how to move foward cuz it’s really taking a toll on everything now. Your videos helped me better understand him and where he comes from, but there’s just levels I’m never gonna understand and I really don’t know what to do. I wanna share these videos with him, but I’m not sure how he’s gonna react and take it. I don’t know, I just want better for my dad.
There needs to be a seperation/distinction between Africans who migrated from Africa to USA versus African-American who's ancestors were slaves in America. The upbringing and what happens in the house are completely different.
As a child of African immigrants in the US, this is definitely true. But please don’t forget that having a history of having been colonized and bearing the social remenants of that is not a trip in the park. These experiences are not to be equated, but both come with generational trauma. There’s a certain kind of self hatred that is developed in families that don’t work hard to wake up from it, and it is passed down by the way parents raise their children, too. And the way we view ourselves. It’s not the same, but I would not say it is better in African immigrants’ households.
^ this. To be honest, I don’t really like African immigrants, or most immigrants generally. And not in the “they’re aliens and not American and will destroy our way life!!!” sort of way, but in the exact opposite. For me, the problem is that they’re too American…specifically the type that believes unquestioningly in the promises and lies of the American dream. That’s how you end up with the rug pullers - immigrants who are overly concerned with keeping the “bad ones” out. The very same ones that look down on peoples that are marginalized domestically, even if they’re ultimately in the same or similar positions. To be clear, I’m not saying immigrants or immigration are bad. To the contrary, I think open borders would reduce a great deal of the selection bias at play. It’s something that evens out over time anyway. I just think we ought to challenge this assumption that just because leftists and democrats generally are more friendly towards immigration, means that they are or should be automatically sympathetic towards our causes.
idk bruh. I got African friends and their home lives aren't the best either. Many West Africans were forced to bottle up their emotions unless they wanna risk getting they ass beat for talking out of turn, their dad's aren't emotionally available, their moms are very single-minded and their parents want to live through their own children's lives and won't let them pursue their own dreams cuz they was told no by their own parents. I've done enough research to know everyone in the African diaspora suffers some heavy generational trauma. What I want y’all to know is that y’all focus on too much of the difference to realize how much similarities black people across the globe all share
Shit...my daddy was mosdef a Troy. Going to therapy helped me to meet him where he is at as a man. When I was younger, I deeply felt he didn't like me. It took until the birth of my youngest son (and the aforementioned therapy) that I decided to patch things up with him and salvage whatever future relationship we could have. Fatherhood also gave me perspective on his realities that I couldn't even begin to fathom in my teens and 20s.
Sorry when you said "and also there's a jar of @$!?s" I just lost it. Its not funny but the phrasing killed me. Man im sorry you saw that at such a young age guy.
Interesting commentary. The vast majority of my friends got that "I don't got to like you" speech or "you ain't sh*t" speech from their mothers. Often a constant condescending and belittling no matter how old they became. And it didn't matter who it was done in front of. A half dozen of my friends mothers lied about the true identity of their fathers, taking their internal anger to a boiling point. In fact the sheer verbal abuse from some of their mothers literally encouraged some to intentionally move out of town/state. This in order to distance their new families from the mother. And leaving her either in complete loneliness or destitute. But I do feel you on the controlling old school father narrative. It's just not the experience that most black boys experience. Largely because the father wasn't around for a variety of reasons.
BRAH story time . Im from VA and we went to the black wax museum with my church in like the 6th grade. The downstairs man good lord😵💫😵💫😵💫. I told my dad about the about the exhibits and my dad just goes “ and that’s why I don’t like seeing a black man with a white woman” . I was speechless ….
OMG the Black and Wax Museum 😭 My grandma tricked my white teachers into taking our 3rd grade class there. I was 7 and everyone was mostly like 8 or 9 years old. There were only two black kids in the class including me.💀 You can guess how that went.
9 days sober, and i can honestly say this was a great review. I started drinking to be sociallly accepted in the south, doing it so much so to where i thought drinking equated to friendship which ultimately wasnt true. Learning to love who you are and not being a duplicate to your father, and or trying to fit in just because thats whatyou have to do to be "black" is the best way to go in life. Its only up from here cause im glad i figured this out early in life to if i do have a child i can give them an equal balance of love and tough love, instead of being bombarded with toxic masculinity, so they will be able to be a "man" and also know that i love them.
Ayo I am so sorry… lol it’s just like a damn old head to show you something that’s supposed to prove them right that actually proves them so so wrong 🤦🏽♂️
That point about the bitterness being shared with others and making them feel lesser is a solid one. Troy did teach him to be uppity & have disdain for the commoner.
Didn’t understand my father’s struggles until I became a father…I never truly understood his strong character, strength, and pain until I became a man. But he never got all the credit that he deserved. As black men we are expected to be thrown in the water and swim without being taught. Many of us drown, but society says it’s our fault because we didn’t swim to safety.
bro this video is outstanding.... damn. I ain't ever think i would ever have the horrors of being at the blacks in wax museum as a preteen shared with someone lol
As some who didnt have a good relationship with my father , was bullied amd accused of being gay even though I wasnt.this video doubled my weed bill for.the week. Amd confirmed my choices to not see either movie.
Great video, especially the last few minutes. On a small note, I was drawn to this movie due to Barry Jenkins' inspirations from Wong Kar Wai. It was really interesting to see the stylistic devices and tropes transplanted from the streets of Hong Kong to the streets of Miami.
As soon as you said you thought you were going to the harbor I knew exactly where this was going, if you grew up here they take you to that museum as a school trip at the age of 8 just to instill trauma in you at a young age I swear
As someone who is Black and neurodivergent, the parallels that I've managed to connect with my own experiences and that of the characters you dissected was really a moment for me to begin mending my relationship with my own authenticity It's gotten me to question my own perceptions of what authenticity means to me. I have a very complicated relationship with authenticity for a plethora of reasons. Thank you for this video. It's gonna heal or at least start the healing journeys of A LOT of people, but ESPECIALLY Black men in so may ways in which you won't see. One of the most important videos I've come across on UA-cam in a long time. Big up to you.
My older brother used to be real mean to me without realizing it, thinking that he was no worse than my father because at least he didn’t damage his confidence or somehow believed that I needed some “adjustment” physically or mentally/ emotionally. Boy he was wrong lol Myself, seeing the errors of his and my fathers ways learned to gain some emotional intelligence to overcome my own demons and having to deal with the anger my brother / father struggled with, and I’m extremely proud to say that over the last few years we all grew closer and I’m glad that through years of talking and having those difficult conversations my brother learned that his behavior was just his way of continuing the cycle, and my father grew to learn that he wasn’t the best but allowed himself to be more emotionally available. Not only am I glad that the relationship between all of us are very much improved, but I’m glad it’s even happened with all of us alive. A lot of black men don’t even get THAT. Good ass video as always man.
I started this video a few days ago, paused it, but it kept coming back into my mind just as... it's strange how much it felt like a video was speaking to me directly, experiences I've had and stuff. Definitely an instant fan here
I grew up in a Middle Class home But that home was Narcissistic, My Father was a Abusive Heavy Drinker and my Mom was such a Gas Lighter it was unbearable just trying to talk to her...........🙄🙄🙄 Yes I'm Black.......and the rest of my family was just as Narcissistic as my immediate family was NOBODY knew their roles at all.........and then on top of all of that I have problems like a normal teenager....... My life was so Stressful growing up it was ridiculous........
Damn got my repressed memories from when my church group took all the kids down to the black wax museum when I was 12. That shit fucked me up but it was really bad for the other kids, some as young as 5. When it was over everybody was crying, some kids threw up. I could not sleep right for some 8 years after(no exaggeration, every night after I would have some dream of me ending up back at that museum). Idk what the deal was trying to traumatize kids with that shit but I'm kinda glad I'm not the only one but I wish you didn't remind me 😂
15:28 I had to pause for a cry break right here. I think I read this play in school but never saw it. Even as the daughter of a white man who himself grew up not-so-wealthy, I got this speech. Many versions, many times
I grew up in Ga and I was taken to one of those slavery museums around 7. Horrifying shit to say the least man. It's so sad to know that many boys won't have a positive male role model in their lives. If it weren't for my grandfather, I don't know where I'd be. We can't change the community, but we can take steps to be better now and build up the next set of boys who must find their way.
When I first saw the "I don't have to like you" monologue, I kept focusing on Cory, the whole time thinking "that's the look of bridges burning to the ground right there".
Viola told the story of the black woman of old in her speech. Now they call us selfish because we choose ourselves over them but the funny thing is women like her character in this film were the ones who told us to do it. I can only imagine the roll coaster they went through. My dad woulda been this but he humbled himself to God instead.
Damn, I was so excited to watch Fences when it was in the promotional stage... and then never saw it. Your video is halfway done and I feel like I need to finally see it, even though my own experience in a machismo-centric Colombian home is a bit different. I also haven't seen Moonlight, so be back to finish this one in a few hours!
I Never watched fences either. I feel like i also wanna watch it now, even though its far from my experiece. My dad has just felt distant as far as i can remember. So idk if i might still be able to relate. I was Never forced to be masculine. But still expected to act the part of a man by my mom.if that even maskes sense. I.e. being scared to wear pink, wear nail polish, “look like a girl”. She expects me to shy away from femininity.
I have no issues learning from someone younger, and I have to say that you took me to school today. Using those two movies to compare and contrast the black experience from a male perspective was so effective. I saw myself, i saw my father I saw my single mom. Thank you for this. ❤️
I got the lecture but there wasn't an explicit "I don't have to like you" stated. Certainly, it was conveyed by tone and sometimes behavior but never really spoken out loud. And it was from my mom cuz dad wasn't there to say anything.
Bro, I went through this phase where my family was falling apart and I was angry at my dad… he used to give me silent treatment when he was angry, beat me up and yell, all that the young homie said, “ trembling when he called my name”. So what I did was shun him for like 8 months. With all that anger and paranoia brewing in me. I watched him break, from a man I knew him as, him becoming a desperate child being abandoned by his family, I was cold then, because I had enough. What always had me is that I tried the most not to be a statistic, but I always found myself being one regardless, but I changed all that by forgiving the old man and focusing on my relationship with Christ and rebuilding our relationship as father and son too. But it does get to me that he always tries to validate himself that I somehow seem to be this “great” version of a man “his son” which he tries to suck every bit of juice from from time to time, but it doesn’t start perfectly, I guess.
Your outlook on these films are brilliant, thanks for making this video it’s refreshing to get an enlightened, articulated, higher perspective on topics such as these! Breaking down archetypical barriers with social analysis that plague so many broken black men to unhealed to even speak on the subject of adversity!
On of the best video essay, I've watch(listen) to. Had flashbacks to my childhood. My first child is a boy and this made me really want to have a talk with him. Video made me almost tear up a little but the light was still on so I couldn't do that.
Its funny. My single black mother at the time gave me the "i dont got to like you" speech. Thats speech is a curse that ruins child parent relationships. Cause i really realised this is nothing more than a job. My mother grew softer as time passed and i had siblings and she got married. But still it caused an undeniable rift
It's still really bad but it comes from a different place with mothers, a place that only makes sense to the person in it. If a person went through the trials and tribulations of pregnancy as a single black mother then goes on to raise you as a single black mother, where does such a damaging speech fit into that? I'd be more confused that hurt...
My birther didn't give me that speech, but other words she said, and her actions showed me she did not give a f-k about me. I haven't felt love from that woman for as long as I can remember (4). I'll be 40 in nov. 🤷🏾♀️
"I wish I never had you" and "I brought you into this world, I can (have the right to?) take you out of it" are two phrases no parent, whether it be mother or father should ever say but too many do.
My (white) mother has a similar mentality. It's kinda surreal listening to a parent say that they value you less then they food you give you, sure brings alot of other shit to light. I don't genuinely don't believe anyone can believe that, but they act like it. And if they can't figure it out, and they can't change then... I won't be talking to mine for much longer.
This was my first thought too
Oh yes, the Black dad who doesn’t know how to convey his emotions, express himself, or say sorry, but also comes off as unapproachable, angry and irritated. Doesn’t know how to relate to his child, but does know how to yell and berate you. The roots of that kind of parenting impact run deep. We’re in a better place now, but years of therapy doesn’t de-root the whole garden.
That sounds like my Dad...apart from the black bit🤔To be fair to him he was much better once he remarried.
fr man, it took my brothers death at the hands of the police for my dad to break down his walls, in the fucking twilight of his life, but i guess it better than no progress and hes better with his grandkids. My nephew runs my dads house doing shit that wouldve gotten me put through a wall.
That just sounds like dads in general, unfortunately.
@@princejellyfish3945hard disagree. hard. My white friends dads were nothing like mine. They were always trying to be friends with their sons, i heard my friends dads say they loved ME more then my own father growing up.
@@jessehenderson2967 well good for your white friends. I don't think they're the majority however.
A character I've always wanted to study in the context of black manhood, fatherhood, and masculinity is Julius from Everybody Hates Chris. There was a line in the first episode of the series that struck me
“My father wasn't the type to say I love you. He was one of four fathers on the block I'll see you in the morning meant he was coming home. Coming home was his way of saying I love you.”
Hard realization for me was reliving my formative years, trying to recall a single time my dad said "i love you"
My dad the same a Julius, and Julius dad. I plan to change that with my kids. They will see a respectable, male figure in their life, that is not afraid to be emotional with his kids.
I can relate. My Dad never told me that he loved me…not in 84 years…well 50 for me. But…but we had a home, two cars, plenty of food, nice clothes, I could always get money out of him (more so than from my tight fisted Mom 😂)…I never got a, “I’m sorry, I was wrong, my bad etc”. The WORK that we must do within ourselves in order to reconcile this is great…it’s a big job, but not impossible. I’m proud to say that I did NOT carry on this Negro PTSD to my children. We hug, say I love you, I’ve apologized for any past indescresions raising them as a young, naive single Mom of two. If a child can get that…it’s a start. I never had that..the acknowledgment of wrongdoing, unfairness, no emotional connection…but I had two parents that showed up everyday and that alone
gave me a strong sense of security that many of my peers did not have in the drug run of the 80’s/90’s…and I thank my parents for that. My Mom is still alive, my Dad passed three years ago. I feel blessed to have done my best to understand that my parents had their own unaddressed issues whilst still managing to cover the basics…and I realize that some of us didn’t even get that. Forgiveness and understanding is for YOU. Happy Mothers Day, may you and yours be blessed and stay safe.❤❤❤
You're looking at this wrong... He taught you how to deal with the world
My dad was the opposite, he said I love you a lot, but his actions always said otherwise. It's a weird world
People usually show you they love you. It's the most genuine way. People will say anything and not mean it. Watch what people do.
What’s crazy is that “I don’t like you” conversation is precisely what made me fall back from my own parents. It reeks of unfounded resentment toward children that never asked to be here today.
My mom would do this to me as a means to inflict emotional pain to manipulate me. She thinks shes better than other women and to an extent, she is and isn't to me. She comes off as controlling regardless if I'm independent or she's the one involved
years ago my class acted out fences for school and even though it was my friend, a woman, reading the lines- i was rose on the side feeling my heart sink hearing it. being reminded of how the men in my family feel
"Once i began to see my dad's brokenness i learned to forgive him for the sole reason that i felt sorry for him" ohh how i can relate
Viola deserved to be lead actress Oscar nominated but instead got supporting because they wanted to give it to Emma Stone.
Stone is overrated at this point.
“ They? “
I mean I'm not sure size and necessity of the role is what dictates. Whether it's a leading or supporting role, I mean the huge and very important role of Hannibal in silence of the lambs was a supporting role. So it's no less prestigious really to get the supporting actor Oscar it really is just a matter of screen time I think.
@@madcat789 Can not viola and stone both be amazing? Is it not the system snubbing one more? Does it help to take down one woman in defense of one who is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy under loved by the institution? Viola deserves sooooooo much more 10 toes down. But, stone is still good too. Differently in a way, I might argue.
Viola is dope, period.
@@ryanfitzgerald9833Except she literally played the same role in the film that she did a few years before on Broadway (winning the Best Actress Tony). They did something similar years before when they nominated Haley Joel Osment for Best Supporting Actor in The Sixth Sense, despite the fact that the movie revolves around him.
You know this ga hit me hard right now man 😢
that's why im doing one on diss tracks next lol
Foreign man in a foreign comment section. Love your videos dude. You put me on to lil bill and I'm grateful for that
So all of us black Baltimore kids had the same elementary school experience and scars from that damn museum.... I was in fifth grade at that time. I still think about the sights and sounds from those exhibits. The room where they showcased lynchings and the jars of castrated body parts still haunts me.
what the actual fuck. and showing a fifth grader??? disgusting.
Sheesh that's heavy af for elementary school
@@jevonp Well they gotta trauma bond em young or the programming won't work.
This is crazy cause I thought my school was out of line for trying to take us to a cotton field
Man i went 4 times... I still ain't recover smh
I am Black, queer, ND and AFAB.
I cried when I watched Fences because Troy was literally EXACTLY LIKE my mom.
Like, everything he said in that movie to his sons literally reminded me of her.
My mother hated me and destroyed everything I loved and wouldnt let me date or have friends because she never got to have the things i had. She literally would say "If I had to suffer you do too!"
She is literally the reason I couldnt go to college and basically do anything.
I excelled and exceeded her in everything.
I played music and was first chair in band in school and was about to be a conductor, she destroyed my instruments and I had to withdraw from band in highschool because she took away my instrument and destroyed it.
I made sculptures, illustrated and painted, she trashed my art table, my supplies, and literally snapped my pencils and brushes in half. She also literally set my art on fire in the fireplace.
I entered art contests, joined and ran clubs in school and started getting awards, and she would remove me from extra curricular activities.
When I studied and tried to work in college she would kick my doors down and scream at me. She refused to sign financial aid citing that i needed to "WORK" for my education and she is not paying for it.
Im now 30 and married to a great person and just now able to persue art and my hobbies as well as have access to mental health care and start to rebuild my life again.
Relate to this (queer, black, afab). I'm so glad you're in a better place now ❤
That line about being better than the bad we were shown cut deep. Surviving trauma is the low point of the pyramid.
I have to disagree about the (black people don’t care if your queer, if you don’t show too much) statement. In my experience, doing too much is literally the same as walking down the street as a straight person. The funny thing about Chiron is he isn’t even the gayest acting dude, and that is what makes his character even more important. Do to patriarchy we assume that gay dudes are mistreated because they overemphasize their queerness, like wear dresses and wigs and acrylic nails. But in fact, all it takes is a little flick of the wrist and a high pitched voice. And that’s it, no extra theatrics needed for homophobia. To clarify, I’m not saying your homophobic and shit, I’m just adding context being a big black queer man from the Bible Belt of south Mississippi. I just noticed that homohobes use that logic of don’t shove it down our throats and I just noticed how the measurement of “too much” has always been a case by case basis.
PREACH
I’m a lesbian and you’re right !
Yea too much is just being gay to them. Funny how you being your self is shoving it. Honestly they would prefer you either stay alone for life or convert to Jesus as a gay and say your sinful. lol I chose neither and I’m bi, shit still piss my mom off even if with a dude
No too much is you being out there and overstepping boundaries. The fact that you don't recognize this as happening disingenuous. You aren't 'always' victims. Far from it.
@@bmoe4609lmao 😂 valid
Born and raised in Baltimore and I can tell you that museum scared DA FUCK outta me.
I bet it would
I still remember seeing the castration jars as an elementary student. Never felt more hated and aware of my blackness.
The blacks in wax museum was terrifying but I learned a lot.
Why are they taking elementary students to this museum? This would traumatize me as an adult
@@Nightlight17 the 90s were some wild times.
I’m glad the kids in your old hood are getting the things they need. Big Respect 🫡
I'm the junky hes talking about, thanks for the hand out Unc
Stay frosty bro
As someone who had a falling out with my dad this year where we aren't talking, it's nice to watch a nuanced video about black fatherhood because it makes it easier to have empathy for the man and I appreciate your work
I just moved out of my father's house because of the type issues around having a black dad. In the case of being a daughter, the dynamics obviously have their similarities and differences to being a son. I feel like, as a daughter of an African immigrant, youre simultaneously better protected but also treated like an emotional dumping ground/punching bag. You're seen but not heard, you're no real threat but you're also hyper managed. They cannot fathom that you could also share in the rage, bitterness and disillusionment of the men. That you could dare to not want it or stand up for yourself. My father was shocked when i left despite almost a decade of emotional blackmail and mental abuse whilst upkeeping the household and trying to be the perfect daughter. It reminds me of this quote 'men are often shocked their daughters arent as forgiving as their wives ' or something to that extent. I now understand why so many of the black women in my life (including my mother) have such resilient spirits and hard demeanors. Being an eldest or only daughter can be a baptism of fire but im finding as I get older i have this bottomless reserve of strength and i feel myself standing a little taller.
Dude I'm gen z and I relate to a lot of that. I love my dad, he's my best friend, but I also got the "I don't got to like you" speech, and all the other speeches and lectures. But what makes me and my father different is that he tells me about his childhood, his feelings of masculinity and having to perform it, because he wants me to be raised better than his father raised him. It's all just so interesting.
I grew up with a very abusive father and living in poverty. I am white, but I mostly hung around Spannish and black people. While I don't personally relate to the racial aspects of the topics you cover, I do relate to a lot of similar traumas. Plus, I experienced my friends going through the struggles that racism put on them. I do value your videos a lot, and thank you.
This video has been the best thing I've seen all week. A lot of people from different backgrounds relating their stories here.
I honestly think one day there will be a new diagnosis, not like BPD but something different that labels this kind of father.
The abusive, possibly violent (in my case physical abuse) always mental abuse, who is very impossible.
You can be a perfect kid with straight A's but the abuse will continue. You will never hear a sorry, even if you are treated horrendously by a misjudged incident (by his own definition). Inability to feel guilt, even acknowledgement of guilt just makes them angry.
A repeated excuse especially due to knowing how ugly their behaviour is "Well I don't have to be friends with you, you're my son".
While other fathers tell their sons about the world. Mentor them on relationships. Want them to have an easy life where they struggled.
It's as if this type of father has insecurity from childhood and subconsciously hates to see a young boy have confidence and his whole life ahead of him, be happy and enjoy his youth, take advantage of his more care free years to socially blossom,
In my case my father was totally pampered, he had a rich father. His father allowed him to do anything, go out late, have fun, have many girlfriends. Whereas I was abused day after day as a small boy, when I became a teen he would berate me for going out and having a social life, then also berate me for being introverted and lacking confidence.
It's like seeing their likeness, young (something they can never get back) happy hurts them. It's such a weird complex and the sad result is they don't stop until likely some children snap, attempt or commit sewyside (sp for youtube filters), have a broken life and inability to thrive. I always wonder how many young men are robbed of their future due to this.
I could go on and on about how senseless it is and reading others stories here we all suffered the same.
The excuse of the macho mentality "well I don't have to be your friend" is so tragic because if you go on the Fences video you see so many people acting like Troy is a good father, not someone with clear issues.
That's the thing, bragging about "putting a roof over your head" and "food on the table" is stupid. You give your son life you owe that as a bare minimum not to be an incompetent father. It's not something to brag about and hold over someones head.
And I'm sure others experienced the threats of homelessness, you don't like how I abuse you how about you go live on the street huh, oh what's that I've ruined your future so now you are more dependent on me, great now I can treat you with even more impunity and hold it over your head.
I have to stop here but guys, we all have our experiences, our trauma and our wish we had better. We had to watch other people who had normal simple relationships and wondered "why me?".
The best thing to do is to break the cycle. I cannot wait until I settle down with a good woman and I have my own son so I can do right. I learned so much about how not to be a father and I have so much love to give to my future family having seen how I still managed to succeed but would have achieved incredible things if I not only didn't have the abuse to deal with but true love and support the whole way through.
95% of what you say applies directly to my lived experience with my father, and social pressure to perform masculinity in a working class neighborhood. I grew up with the 'I'm not your friend! I don't have to like you!' speech monthly. The 'You live under my roof, eat my food, you OWE me!'. Of course there was also the classic 'I could throw you out on the street any time I want!' just about weekly from age 10 to 18. As I got older, I started to bloom like so many people do. He dedicated a disappointing amount of energy into a duality of disparaging me, while simultaneously trying to take credit for any victories I had.
My dad was not black, but he was an immigrant, a refugee. He didn't pass as white for the first 30 years of his life, but I really don't think that had anything to do with it. He was raised badly. He learned how to parent badly, and he swallowed patriarchy hook line and sinker. He wasn't self reflective enough to understand the harm he was doing, or how he could be better. And he was bitter, resentful, and entitled. And even if he could understand the harm, I don't think he could bring himself to sincerely care enough about other human beings to be willing to change anything. Troy isn't an avatar of a certain kind of black man per'se, he's the avatar of a certain kind of narcissist boomer who was raised with a particular style of parenting in a time with specific ideas of manhood.
As best as I can tell, blackness in this story acts only as that old additional qualifier:
'All of that, but also all the unfair pressures applied to black folk living under our contemporary expression of white supremacy'.
Whether that makes things additively or exponentially more stressful is not something I can know.
My two cents anyways, great video Bill.
How did your dad not pass as white for 30 years? What happened after the 30 years? Did he get what Michael Jackson had?
@@jimmyalfonda3536 Nope, his skin just went from brown to white as he got older. Same thing happened to his mother. I never met my grandfather from that side so I don't know how he was. I think this is pretty common for people from some communities in eastern europe and the balkans, places that had a lot of Turkish influence from the Ottoman period. That side of my family is Magyar.
Troy is a Black character embedded in a political saga that started way before he got there. Troy’s Blackness is central to this story - it’s not the only theme- but August Wilson was writing about Blackness in the New World- it’s specific yet can be appreciated thematically for sure. The themes are universal- the added component of race is the specific and does lead to an historical embodied context that does add another level of significance and complexity.
@@happygucci5094 100%, no argument.
@@peterkorisanszky2950 🫡✊🏽😊
When you mentioned the wax museum I knew they took your baby self down those stairs.
I went to a blackity-black elementary school and after showing us Roots in 5th grade they dragged our lil selves all the way down from New York to this museum.
It was INSANE and our teachers were crazy for taking us there. Like damn I was so freaked out I refused to go down there. Thankfully my mom was there so I didn’t have to but this museum was something else.
I never understood the point in traumatizing kids when there were better ways to get points across but I guess it goes back to that mentality if they don’t literally beat us into shape first (physically or mentally) the world won’t hesitate to break us down harder.
So do these dads give thw "i dont have to like you" speech to cover up how they really feel? Or do they really not like their kids but raise them anyways because they were taught "thats what youre supposed to do as a man?"
A bit of both in most cases
If you bring someone into this world that didn't ask to be brought into this world, then I would think it is your duty to raise them.
Vulnerability. They are afraid if they show vulnerabilities that you will too in the world. They want you to keep your fence up so no one can hurt you. They weren't taught how to be safe AND vulnerable and so they dont demonstrate that to the children.
It’s what they were told, generational bad parenting.
If you actually dont like yourself can you even actually like anyone else?
I would say no. Or at least not in the same way people who do like themselves can like other people. Not to say you cant have healthy relationships as a self hating person but i think it does stifle deeper connections.
My dad is Troy to the T. Stereotypcial "strict black dad" like unreasonably strict. When we were grounded it was essentially prison. He would take EVERYTHING from the room. Posters, TVs, my brother, he would even TAKE THE BEDS. Its probably why I'm so comfortable sleeping on the floor. We got the speech more than once in his house. I love that man to death, he did right by us, but damn man he really didnt wanna be a father. Shouldnt have been a father.
Dang
I’m white, I’m queer, and from the hood. Many of these archetypes were present for me as well. It felt like “be the provider your father never could be” or “never abuse women and alcohol the way your grandad did” but I never once felt like anybody actually tried to know me for me. It felt like I was just a vessel for the trauma that my fem family members experienced at the hands of my progenitors.
Your identity to them exists only insofar as it can service their desire to see an antithesis to the men in their lives they hold contempt towards. Welcome to being a man today.
I was talking to my dad about the cost of college the other day and he said "You really thought I wasn't gon help you?" and I was shocked cuz all he ever told me was how he built our life from the ground up and I gotta do that too. Every time I brought up college he made it clear I better not ask for money, I'm privileged enough as it is. When I told him the effect of everything her said to me as a kid he was shocked because exactly what you were saying. He thought he was doing so much better than his dad did for him, and that meant he was doing it good enough. I'm glad we got to a point we can have these talks but how did he think I "knew he didn't mean any of it"? Like of course I thought you meant it I was a kid.
Younger sister of three older brothers
I feel that boys who have a “ traditional” fathers are forced into man hood faster
I really don't see what is wrong with what you are saying
@@wethepplwhorblackerthanblu6442children should be allowed to be children
@wethepplwhorblackerthanblu6442 what is wrong with you?
Part of me always wondered why I didn't really have a hard time being picked on as a kid despite being small and growing up in a rough area and recently I finally figured out that I think it's because I was taught to be violent very young. One of the few times I asked my dad for advice as a child was about how to know when to stop hitting someone in a fight. In our often fucked up version of being a man it seems like violence is basically a cheat code to people not picking on you. I'm going to teach my son how to be a man without that shit though. Making violence a part of who you are is toxic and eats you from the inside out.
Survival skills my brother some people used violence, some used humour we all were just trying to survive. Once our situations improve and we age we can look back and analyse but at the time it’s hard. If the only tool you have is a hammer. Giving your kids other tools is definitely key but as a father myself I find a lot of the tools I have don’t apply his situations. The best I’ve come up with is getting him to try to acknowledge his emotions and not be controlled by them. I want him to be more stoic but I don’t want him to repress his feelings. As with most things balance is the key but it’s easier said than done.
@@jjrilla___2664 Yeah, I hear that. I used humour mostly at school since most of the kids there were from soft backgrounds. I agree, I'm not nearly as angry at my dad as I was when I was young because I think he just tried to teach me the couple of things he'd found that worked for him. I reckon I'm going to have that issue with my son too. Now that I live in a nicer area I don't really have to worry about him needing to fight physically nearly as much but I also feel out of place and like I can't relate to what he'll need to deal with growing up. I'm just hoping it'll be easier for him and I'll have more to teach than I got taught. I think you're right about having a bigger toolbox being the key.
@FabledAllOut I think you should teach what your father taught you, but also give your kid the history of why you learned it, why your father taught it to you and then ask him to tell you what he's learning in school and what things he's doing differently. Teaching is an important part of learning and personally a lot of fathers rob their kids that experience because they feel like they know better or simply don't have the time.
Largely depends on what you considered being picked on and how your school handled it.
I don't know a single person that wasn't atleast made fun of for good reason. However not everyone took it to the level of physicality. Teachers, administrators and even the Principal will overlook the behavior preceding the retaliation and often times just punish the person who did the most damage. Being violent isn't enough to deter kids unless they are craven by nature themselves. They always want to see just how far they can push you.
@@tnk4me4 this is so true. I learned a lot watching my dad and later on figured out why he did the things he did. I’ve tried tell me son things but noticed he mostly has to learn the hard way by going through it himself. It would be could to tell him everything I learned from my dad, my life lessons and hope he makes his on path. Sometimes it comes off as a lecture and I see him switch off 😂
I went to the Blacks in Wax Museum 25 years ago as a child and I’m still traumatized to this day
This cuts both ways- my Mother was scapegoated in her family. So was her Mother. So was I. My Mom dealt with devasting trauma, single parenthood and having to be both Mother and Father to me, the youngest, the daughter that is most like her. I got the Troy treatment. And I also have been blessed to do the healing work and my Mom has too. Trauma sucks. Patriarchy sucks. Healing initially sucks, then little by little it gets better.
Thank you for these videos Bill- you are awesome.
This video really speaks to me. My father is like Troy, his father was even more like Troy and his grandfather was even further than that. The major difference is that my father realized this, apologized and took the steps to truly be better. I stopped hating him once I truly understood him and why he is the way he is.
I truly love, and am grateful for, you and FD''s content. It's helped me in so many ways, namely with assisting me to truly understand my manhood, as a black man in this country. Thank you
14:30 They way Bill clocked me. I’m a nonbinary person but at the time was presenting female and my father gave me almost the same speech verbatim when I was younger and I vowed to put him in a home when his time comes. My father also said when I asked him why we don’t do family things and his response was “This ain’t The Cosby Show.” He’s going in the worst home.
Sometimes it’s all you can really do, promise yourself they’ll be going in a home 😭. Also let this be a wake up call to anyone who says that having kids means you won’t die alone :)
@@malleuscalgary Its not like you read anyway
Don't put him in a home, let him be homeless.
Honestly, he still raised you and unless you absolutely HATE who you are. Try to see if that relationship gets better later in his life. I find it typically does
Seems a bit extreme on your part. You don’t have to except his attitude, but the man did pay for your food, housing, upbringing, and he did raise you. You don’t know the weight of parenting. Yeah he’s not a good parent, but he did do all those things. For you to then put him in the worst home you can find, seems like you’re doing something even worse to him.
People don’t realize the impact of words especially on impressionable children. You should discipline your kids but it cant always be in a harsh way. You need to balance it out with kind words. You can often unwittingly curse your own children’s as the parents themselves may also have been under similar word curses. “The power of life and death is in the tongue.” Proverbs 18:21
That's why these boys turn into adults they are using their trauma against them parents (especially the mothers) in many ways, till this day and it's funny. I say gen Z will break the curse. 😂😂😂
A lot of being a parent is simply how much of the truth are you willing to tell or even communicate with your child. You realize your kids are learning lessons all through your shared experiences and they will question their own flaws and strengths which reflect on you
When he said "my wife went into labor" I thought he was gonna say "for whatever reason"
lol same
Funny thing is, the black father stereotype can also be applied to latino fathers as well
It can be applied to any race. All sons want their fathers approval and all fathers wonder if they're enough. If they don't evaluate their parenting, they probably are failing somewhere. No one is perfect
And Arab fathers too...I'll never forgive my father for giving me constant anxiety and stress to the point of where I come home screaming and crying in my pillow to let out my trauma
it applies to literally all western men, we just see bill's presentation of the particular flavor of western masculinity as it pertains to black men. but the bottom core of it all? that's just how patriarchy sets men up. period. regardless of race. that's what toxic masculinity refers to, it refers to masculinity without humanity. hence it has become toxic.
Soon as you said “Great Blacks in Wax Museum” my body shivered. If you were raised in Baltimore…you know
I really needed to hear this and watch this video. My dad passed away earlier this year from some sort of health ailment that had been eating away at him for years (i'm guessing cancer or a stomach blockage), and he was so secretive and alienated himself from my family that we didnt find out until months afterwards. He'd given me the old "I am not your friend, i am your parent" speech but all i asked was that he let me talk to him plainly or for him to listen to me about my day without warping it into a 2 hour lecture about nonsense.
Despite all of that, his last two conversations i had with him (on the phone of course) i could tell that he regretted setting that boundary. He'd asked me to call him more. I didn't. And now he's gone. I guess my point is: i think that these dads are so afraid of failing to perform fatherhood or masculinity for their children that they cant bring themselves to be completely open until they know for a fact that it won't matter. Or maybe not. Idk. I can't ask him myself anymore.
Fences are fine so as long as you have a gate to get in and out of.
7:09 omg there's a similar thing at the Detroit African American History Museum, they took us in like 3rd grade to basically a "middle passage experience" including wax figures, voice acting, and sound effects. it was terrifying. Went back again recently with my boyfriend and it still holds up as scary as ever.
If another man is telling you from his; private cruise ship, second yacht, riverboat house, speed boat, row boat, swan pedal boat, driftwood 'Swim til you get exhausted and drown for our amusement' instead of extending a rescue device or hand. Stop swimming, just float. The day even a man on driftwood, who's about to be killed by a speed boat aiming for you, wants you to drown as if you're why he "only" has driftwood, you're wasting time and energy. Use it instead to dive and avoid the speedboat, y'know, handle each boat as it comes.
The PTSD from just hearing "Great Blacks in Wax" still keeps me up at night.
Not me tearing up from a review. I'm a queer black woman, so my experience isn't quite the same a a queer black man, but still had a lot of pressure from the community to conform. Great video
Damn it I don’t need to cry this morning bill.
Yooooo....the Blacks in wax museum traumatized me for YEARS! Im from MD and we went every year from 8-13 😭
Nah sexuality isn’t mutable. It’s def apart of Chiron’s personality. She tried to make him into a “real man” but she makes him just more scared. She probably thinks he’s gay cuz he doesn’t have his biological father present. I do notice that being a visible queer person sadly makes ppl upset because they don’t see queer black folks as people.
I really love your analysis and soft critique of the black masculine experience. Unfortunately women are not always great at breaking the cycle either. It's gonna take everyone together to fix it.
As someone who lost my father (VERY similar to the Denzel character) 2 years ago, and also raised my own sons (currently 24 and 19) to adulthood, while consciously working to be the exact opposite type of father, while, passing along the best parts of what he was to me, this one is hitting different.
I rarely leave multiple comments on a single video, but yeah.
Thank you. this touched on a lot of my experiences with my dad especially as a queer black man. As I got older and found out more about his father, I saw he didn’t have the capacity to show me love outside of trying to toughen me up. Great analysis lil b.
That's some classic black panther community action. We love to see it
Oof. I’d send this to my brother if he wouldn’t call me and curse me out for doing so. He’s so far gone into his performance that it’s all he has left 😢
Reminds me so much of my childhood and the deaths of my brothers, if indirectly, due to paternal abuse. One of the reasons I find films sucj as Fences impossible to watch.
Thanks...
I’m sorry for your loss.May your brothers’ memories live on.
I'm so sorry for your loss, may they rest in peace and power.
I think positive male role models are very important. We're not going to beat back toxic masculinity without a positive version of it. It's the most important thing I can do as a father (and a teacher, though I teach grad students)
I'm a 34 year old black woman, and while I feel indifferent about the decision to have kids, I still struggle to wrap my head around having kids and raising them the best way that I can. I think I struggle because I feel there's just more to wanting to be a parent than just birthing a kid. I think of the responsibility as astronomical, and this scares me. I feel like too many people don't really sit to think about what having kids does to them, to their lives, and if they'll be willing to make the necessary adjustments to their lives and personalities to raise a kid from a blank slate to an adult in a healthy way. Yeah, you lost your job and are frustrated, but a kid does not know that or does not have the mental ability to understand the consequences of it. I forgive my parents for not doing better for my mental and emotional stability, but I am grateful that I am self-aware enough to know that their parenting contributed to my issues. Therapy helps, but the work to be better if I ever have kids primarily lies with me. I hope if I'm ever a parent, I can do better. I'm scared.
Haven’t watch the full video yet but I know this will be a banger ever since that community post about Moonlight
Viola took me church with that monologue.
my 2 cents on this, i don't think Troy is exclusive a black father figure. I'm hispanic and my father is exactly like troy, minus the infidelity. And like Cory said in his monologue to Troy everyone was afraid of him and it wasn't until I stood up to him that it changed. Now according to the information I can piece together my father's mother and father were equally as bad to his brothers and sisters. Not sure if this is more, we're working poor people trying our best to give our kids more but we're so broken we cannot stop the cycles of abuse.
15 mins in, and this is the video I didn't know I needed.
Too bad I have to start work, and make sure these folks do right by me...
Can't wait to get back to this tho...
The struggle to just be respected on a human level as a black man is ridiculously exhausting!! I was going to say a lot more, but I am exhausted. 🤦🏽♂️
i feel you.
Great video, and in those last 5 minutes as you deconstructed black masculinity growing up and Chiron's character, I felt unbelievably seen. Growing up as a black boy, I never was the most courageous or aggressive, and I was chastised for that. So in some ways I had to overcompensate in order to be seen properly.... But as I got older, when I was around 17ish, I came to realization of how my overcompensation was actively harming the people I claimed to love. Alongside other personal revelations. Currently I am 21 and I've pretty much rejected the standard for black masculinity that the community seems to hold onto.
Anything can happen and I might find myself in the future performing in the same fashion that I rejected, but for now? Fuck that. I'm gonna do me and I want to be that positive male figure for everyone who who may not have that, as I didn't have.
While I’m not black (indigenous) my dad is. Technically he’s my stepdad, but he was my dad and I consider him my dad. From what I know about his early life it wasn’t good for him. He grew up with all the problems that come with growing up in the hood, and how that carried onto his parenting style, mental health and worldview. While, he did what he could for me and my sisters it wasn’t enough and as I get older he got into manosphere shit and I really see how it’s damaging him and his relationship with my younger sisters and it hurts watching that. I really don’t know how to approach that and how to move foward cuz it’s really taking a toll on everything now. Your videos helped me better understand him and where he comes from, but there’s just levels I’m never gonna understand and I really don’t know what to do. I wanna share these videos with him, but I’m not sure how he’s gonna react and take it. I don’t know, I just want better for my dad.
There needs to be a seperation/distinction between Africans who migrated from Africa to USA versus African-American who's ancestors were slaves in America. The upbringing and what happens in the house are completely different.
As a child of African immigrants in the US, this is definitely true. But please don’t forget that having a history of having been colonized and bearing the social remenants of that is not a trip in the park. These experiences are not to be equated, but both come with generational trauma. There’s a certain kind of self hatred that is developed in families that don’t work hard to wake up from it, and it is passed down by the way parents raise their children, too. And the way we view ourselves. It’s not the same, but I would not say it is better in African immigrants’ households.
^ this. To be honest, I don’t really like African immigrants, or most immigrants generally. And not in the “they’re aliens and not American and will destroy our way life!!!” sort of way, but in the exact opposite.
For me, the problem is that they’re too American…specifically the type that believes unquestioningly in the promises and lies of the American dream. That’s how you end up with the rug pullers - immigrants who are overly concerned with keeping the “bad ones” out. The very same ones that look down on peoples that are marginalized domestically, even if they’re ultimately in the same or similar positions.
To be clear, I’m not saying immigrants or immigration are bad. To the contrary, I think open borders would reduce a great deal of the selection bias at play. It’s something that evens out over time anyway. I just think we ought to challenge this assumption that just because leftists and democrats generally are more friendly towards immigration, means that they are or should be automatically sympathetic towards our causes.
Tariq Nasheed posting
BIG FACTS
idk bruh. I got African friends and their home lives aren't the best either. Many West Africans were forced to bottle up their emotions unless they wanna risk getting they ass beat for talking out of turn, their dad's aren't emotionally available, their moms are very single-minded and their parents want to live through their own children's lives and won't let them pursue their own dreams cuz they was told no by their own parents. I've done enough research to know everyone in the African diaspora suffers some heavy generational trauma.
What I want y’all to know is that y’all focus on too much of the difference to realize how much similarities black people across the globe all share
Shit...my daddy was mosdef a Troy. Going to therapy helped me to meet him where he is at as a man. When I was younger, I deeply felt he didn't like me. It took until the birth of my youngest son (and the aforementioned therapy) that I decided to patch things up with him and salvage whatever future relationship we could have. Fatherhood also gave me perspective on his realities that I couldn't even begin to fathom in my teens and 20s.
Sorry when you said "and also there's a jar of @$!?s" I just lost it. Its not funny but the phrasing killed me. Man im sorry you saw that at such a young age guy.
Interesting commentary. The vast majority of my friends got that "I don't got to like you" speech or "you ain't sh*t" speech from their mothers. Often a constant condescending and belittling no matter how old they became. And it didn't matter who it was done in front of. A half dozen of my friends mothers lied about the true identity of their fathers, taking their internal anger to a boiling point. In fact the sheer verbal abuse from some of their mothers literally encouraged some to intentionally move out of town/state. This in order to distance their new families from the mother. And leaving her either in complete loneliness or destitute. But I do feel you on the controlling old school father narrative. It's just not the experience that most black boys experience. Largely because the father wasn't around for a variety of reasons.
BRAH story time . Im from VA and we went to the black wax museum with my church in like the 6th grade. The downstairs man good lord😵💫😵💫😵💫. I told my dad about the about the exhibits and my dad just goes “ and that’s why I don’t like seeing a black man with a white woman” . I was speechless ….
OMG the Black and Wax Museum 😭 My grandma tricked my white teachers into taking our 3rd grade class there. I was 7 and everyone was mostly like 8 or 9 years old. There were only two black kids in the class including me.💀 You can guess how that went.
9 days sober, and i can honestly say this was a great review. I started drinking to be sociallly accepted in the south, doing it so much so to where i thought drinking equated to friendship which ultimately wasnt true. Learning to love who you are and not being a duplicate to your father, and or trying to fit in just because thats whatyou have to do to be "black" is the best way to go in life. Its only up from here cause im glad i figured this out early in life to if i do have a child i can give them an equal balance of love and tough love, instead of being bombarded with toxic masculinity, so they will be able to be a "man" and also know that i love them.
Troy is dead my father.
MY DAD SENT ME A CLIP FROM FENCES.
Ayo I am so sorry… lol it’s just like a damn old head to show you something that’s supposed to prove them right that actually proves them so so wrong 🤦🏽♂️
That point about the bitterness being shared with others and making them feel lesser is a solid one. Troy did teach him to be uppity & have disdain for the commoner.
Didn’t understand my father’s struggles until I became a father…I never truly understood his strong character, strength, and pain until I became a man. But he never got all the credit that he deserved. As black men we are expected to be thrown in the water and swim without being taught. Many of us drown, but society says it’s our fault because we didn’t swim to safety.
bro this video is outstanding....
damn. I ain't ever think i would ever have the horrors of being at the blacks in wax museum as a preteen shared with someone lol
My parents never treated me like this and I'm very glad about it
As some who didnt have a good relationship with my father , was bullied amd accused of being gay even though I wasnt.this video doubled my weed bill for.the week. Amd confirmed my choices to not see either movie.
Great video, especially the last few minutes.
On a small note, I was drawn to this movie due to Barry Jenkins' inspirations from Wong Kar Wai. It was really interesting to see the stylistic devices and tropes transplanted from the streets of Hong Kong to the streets of Miami.
As soon as you said you thought you were going to the harbor I knew exactly where this was going, if you grew up here they take you to that museum as a school trip at the age of 8 just to instill trauma in you at a young age I swear
As someone who is Black and neurodivergent, the parallels that I've managed to connect with my own experiences and that of the characters you dissected was really a moment for me to begin mending my relationship with my own authenticity It's gotten me to question my own perceptions of what authenticity means to me. I have a very complicated relationship with authenticity for a plethora of reasons. Thank you for this video. It's gonna heal or at least start the healing journeys of A LOT of people, but ESPECIALLY Black men in so may ways in which you won't see. One of the most important videos I've come across on UA-cam in a long time. Big up to you.
My older brother used to be real mean to me without realizing it, thinking that he was no worse than my father because at least he didn’t damage his confidence or somehow believed that I needed some “adjustment” physically or mentally/ emotionally. Boy he was wrong lol
Myself, seeing the errors of his and my fathers ways learned to gain some emotional intelligence to overcome my own demons and having to deal with the anger my brother / father struggled with, and I’m extremely proud to say that over the last few years we all grew closer and I’m glad that through years of talking and having those difficult conversations my brother learned that his behavior was just his way of continuing the cycle, and my father grew to learn that he wasn’t the best but allowed himself to be more emotionally available.
Not only am I glad that the relationship between all of us are very much improved, but I’m glad it’s even happened with all of us alive. A lot of black men don’t even get THAT.
Good ass video as always man.
I started this video a few days ago, paused it, but it kept coming back into my mind just as... it's strange how much it felt like a video was speaking to me directly, experiences I've had and stuff. Definitely an instant fan here
The basement of the blacks in wax museum traumatized soooo many black children over the years.
I grew up in a Middle Class home But that home was Narcissistic, My Father was a Abusive Heavy Drinker and my Mom was such a Gas Lighter it was unbearable just trying to talk to her...........🙄🙄🙄 Yes I'm Black.......and the rest of my family was just as Narcissistic as my immediate family was NOBODY knew their roles at all.........and then on top of all of that I have problems like a normal teenager....... My life was so Stressful growing up it was ridiculous........
powerful video and so true on so many levels. especially the generational curse part.
favorite UA-camr keep speaking sense into my generation love 🖤
Damn got my repressed memories from when my church group took all the kids down to the black wax museum when I was 12. That shit fucked me up but it was really bad for the other kids, some as young as 5. When it was over everybody was crying, some kids threw up. I could not sleep right for some 8 years after(no exaggeration, every night after I would have some dream of me ending up back at that museum). Idk what the deal was trying to traumatize kids with that shit but I'm kinda glad I'm not the only one but I wish you didn't remind me 😂
15:28 I had to pause for a cry break right here. I think I read this play in school but never saw it. Even as the daughter of a white man who himself grew up not-so-wealthy, I got this speech. Many versions, many times
This was a great video. Really like all the thought that went into your analysis.
I grew up in Ga and I was taken to one of those slavery museums around 7. Horrifying shit to say the least man.
It's so sad to know that many boys won't have a positive male role model in their lives. If it weren't for my grandfather, I don't know where I'd be.
We can't change the community, but we can take steps to be better now and build up the next set of boys who must find their way.
When I first saw the "I don't have to like you" monologue, I kept focusing on Cory, the whole time thinking "that's the look of bridges burning to the ground right there".
Your content is the best thing that happen on YT in a while
Viola told the story of the black woman of old in her speech. Now they call us selfish because we choose ourselves over them but the funny thing is women like her character in this film were the ones who told us to do it. I can only imagine the roll coaster they went through. My dad woulda been this but he humbled himself to God instead.
At 8:30 mark or so.... Yeah..... The Great Blacks in Wax Museum was super traumatizing. I still remember it to this day.
Damn, I was so excited to watch Fences when it was in the promotional stage... and then never saw it.
Your video is halfway done and I feel like I need to finally see it, even though my own experience in a machismo-centric Colombian home is a bit different.
I also haven't seen Moonlight, so be back to finish this one in a few hours!
I Never watched fences either. I feel like i also wanna watch it now, even though its far from my experiece. My dad has just felt distant as far as i can remember. So idk if i might still be able to relate. I was Never forced to be masculine. But still expected to act the part of a man by my mom.if that even maskes sense. I.e. being scared to wear pink, wear nail polish, “look like a girl”. She expects me to shy away from femininity.
I have no issues learning from someone younger, and I have to say that you took me to school today. Using those two movies to compare and contrast the black experience from a male perspective was so effective. I saw myself, i saw my father I saw my single mom. Thank you for this. ❤️
You really had me in my feelings this time around, to the point where my dog had to jump into my lap and go "it's OK, please don't cry!"
I got the lecture but there wasn't an explicit "I don't have to like you" stated. Certainly, it was conveyed by tone and sometimes behavior but never really spoken out loud. And it was from my mom cuz dad wasn't there to say anything.
Bro, I went through this phase where my family was falling apart and I was angry at my dad… he used to give me silent treatment when he was angry, beat me up and yell, all that the young homie said, “ trembling when he called my name”. So what I did was shun him for like 8 months. With all that anger and paranoia brewing in me. I watched him break, from a man I knew him as, him becoming a desperate child being abandoned by his family, I was cold then, because I had enough. What always had me is that I tried the most not to be a statistic, but I always found myself being one regardless, but I changed all that by forgiving the old man and focusing on my relationship with Christ and rebuilding our relationship as father and son too. But it does get to me that he always tries to validate himself that I somehow seem to be this “great” version of a man “his son” which he tries to suck every bit of juice from from time to time, but it doesn’t start perfectly, I guess.
Amazing and spot on. Thank you for this, Bill. Love to everybody who watched these movies and felt seen.
Your outlook on these films are brilliant, thanks for making this video it’s refreshing to get an enlightened, articulated, higher perspective on topics such as these! Breaking down archetypical barriers with social analysis that plague so many broken black men to unhealed to even speak on the subject of adversity!
On of the best video essay, I've watch(listen) to. Had flashbacks to my childhood. My first child is a boy and this made me really want to have a talk with him. Video made me almost tear up a little but the light was still on so I couldn't do that.
Thank you for this
The white counterpart to this is Bruce Springsteen’s entire career.