Your shopping cart wheel demonstration was the best way I’ve ever seen to explain the effects of rake and trail in the real world. Anybody who has pushed a shopping cart can follow along with you. Well done…that was great.
Excellent video, one caveat though. Raked trees are used to correct trail when chopping but they weren't originally designed for that purpose. Raked trees predate choppers. Their original purpose is to reduce trail to make it easier to turn trikes and sidecars. Trikes and sidecars turn hard, reducing trail is like power steering.
@@WitchcraftCycleWorks Well you just demonstrated simple math. Why trail then? I liked your video. A rod for angles. Tape to mark on. An angle finder. Ok. Don’t use math.
@@westcoast3595 Honestly I wouldn't know how to do all the math. I have found a program on a different page but it would only let you insert certain parameters. The choppers that I have built have all had plenty of trail so I was never too concerned with figuring out the exact math. This video was made mostly to explain why putting raked trees on a stock neck could be dangerous. I'm glad you enjoyed the video. We are hoping to build this channel into something bigger that people find entertaining.
You are obviously a very knowledgeable man who is also talented at building custom bikes, so my questions is that I have listened to a well known springer front end builder who says that he builds his front ends to have a single degree of trail and that's why they're easy to handle and ride one handed around curves easily and the guys who have never ridden with one of his front ends often have trouble at first because they're used to having more trail which makes the front end feel heavier.. what are your thoughts and where are you located?? I've got a twin cam softail that I'm interested in having it raked & a perhaps some stretch added to..
A springer front is set up differently. To adjust the trail on a springer you change the length of the rocker. The rocker is the part that attaches the front axle to the forks. On a stock bike the rocker is only a few inches long. On some choppers they can be a foot long. BTW. I'm located in Gerald Missouri.
@WitchcraftCycleWorks I looked you up on Facebook and between there and your videos here you have answered all my questions.. I'm just north of Galesburg Illinois and I've got a twin cam softail that I'm wanting to give that old school South Bay chopper look to.. this fall I will be in touch for sure..
I'm sorry for the brief response this morning. I was running late. Trail is measured in length like inches not degrees. Degrees is for rake. I can only assume that your guy is building bikes with only an inch of trail. While you can set them up any way you like as long as you don't go into negative trail, I would think that while it might be easy to steer it isn't enough to allow the bike to track straight down the road. I have set my bikes up with 5 to 6 inches of trail and I have no trouble riding one handed with any of them. Again, it's all just a matter of preference. My wife has a BigDog Mastiff that has a 40 degree rake all in the neck. It feels heavy and sluggish but I haven't measured to see what the trail number is on it. That is the reason I use raked trees on my builds, to bring the trail measurement back a bit. I have never done a springer front end yet but it's on my to do list.
@WitchcraftCycleWorks I am more knowledgeable from finding your videos and I appreciate your response.. the builder I was referring to is sugar bear. I watched a interview he did where he talked about what I mentioned above. I also bought a big dog mastiff at one time super cheap but I traded it because the front end felt really heavy and it didn't ride good either. I should have taking the s&s engine and baker transmission out of it and started a new project.. I've never owned a long springer chopper but I'm determining to have one either a evo or twin cam and I want to make sure that it handles great because I plan on riding it all over and not just a bar hopper or a bike that I ride but don't enjoy on long distance rides. You're about 4 and a half hours straight south of me..
Great video. I watched because I have a friend that ones to rake his sportster and talked about doing it with triple trees. He has a 21” front wheel. Do you think he can get away w doing just the triple trees?
Too many factors involved to say for sure but I never recommend using raked trees on a stock neck. The right way is to cut the neck and reweld to whatever angle you want.
I've never built a frame from scratch. I only modify existing frames. I don't think I'm at the level of expertise needed to ship out custom frames. Doing a complete build in shop allows me to make adjustments during the mock up if needed.
You can get 4" longer tubes but I would never use the extensions. Too sketchy. Just putting 4" longer tubes in you stock trees will definitely add some trail measurement and it will also lift the front of the bike. You didn't mention what kind of bike but 4" lower in rear doesn't sound possible. The Softails I work on only sit about 5" off the ground in the rear at stock height. Even if you could, it would make for a goofy looking stance.
@@bennygregory2629 Extensions are like a long threaded cap to extend the forks. I don't want a weak point in my forks. Especially considering the forces that can be applied to them while riding. Longer fork tubes aren't that expensive and your life depends on them.
@@bennygregory2629 Lowering a bike 1" is quite a bit. I doubt you could lower one 3" and even if you could the tire would probably rub the fender and you would be at the limit of your suspension travel.
Your shopping cart wheel demonstration was the best way I’ve ever seen to explain the effects of rake and trail in the real world. Anybody who has pushed a shopping cart can follow along with you. Well done…that was great.
Great video, well explained.
Keep posting
Great explanations! Very informative.
Awesome video.. thanks for taking the time..
Very knowledgeable!
Great explanation of how it all works together! I love it.
got what you are trying to say. learned a little also. thank you for your help
Hi Bill great explanation THANK YOU MUCH.(Breakout here we go)😎
Good video.
I like this 👌 that's informative and visually interesting because dummies like me wouldn't know now I do for later
man you really dumbed that down cause even I could understand that, well done!
Trying to keep it simple so people won't build something that doesn't handle properly.
Awesome video bud
Just subscribed to y’all again lol I sun a long time ago don’t know why it kicked me off but I enjoyed the video thanks for sharing
Thanks for sharing Bill...nicely laid out and easy for even an old guy to understand. Well done!
Great explanation. Here’s the how, and here’s the why. Solid.
Excellent video, one caveat though. Raked trees are used to correct trail when chopping but they weren't originally designed for that purpose. Raked trees predate choppers. Their original purpose is to reduce trail to make it easier to turn trikes and sidecars.
Trikes and sidecars turn hard, reducing trail is like power steering.
Probably the best video I've watched that explains rake and trail. Brilliant!
I will probably do another that discusses the function of raked trees on choppers at some point.
Excellent, as per my comments in subsequent videos, I have a 99 Softail that I want to do the same.@@WitchcraftCycleWorks
Great explanation, Bill.
Hey Bill
You remind of how I learned it the hard way. It pays to do the math.
From what I've seen the math is mostly theoretical.
@@WitchcraftCycleWorks
Well you just demonstrated simple math. Why trail then? I liked your video. A rod for angles. Tape to mark on. An angle finder. Ok. Don’t use math.
@@westcoast3595 Honestly I wouldn't know how to do all the math. I have found a program on a different page but it would only let you insert certain parameters. The choppers that I have built have all had plenty of trail so I was never too concerned with figuring out the exact math. This video was made mostly to explain why putting raked trees on a stock neck could be dangerous. I'm glad you enjoyed the video. We are hoping to build this channel into something bigger that people find entertaining.
You are obviously a very knowledgeable man who is also talented at building custom bikes, so my questions is that I have listened to a well known springer front end builder who says that he builds his front ends to have a single degree of trail and that's why they're easy to handle and ride one handed around curves easily and the guys who have never ridden with one of his front ends often have trouble at first because they're used to having more trail which makes the front end feel heavier.. what are your thoughts and where are you located?? I've got a twin cam softail that I'm interested in having it raked & a perhaps some stretch added to..
A springer front is set up differently. To adjust the trail on a springer you change the length of the rocker. The rocker is the part that attaches the front axle to the forks. On a stock bike the rocker is only a few inches long. On some choppers they can be a foot long. BTW. I'm located in Gerald Missouri.
@WitchcraftCycleWorks I looked you up on Facebook and between there and your videos here you have answered all my questions.. I'm just north of Galesburg Illinois and I've got a twin cam softail that I'm wanting to give that old school South Bay chopper look to.. this fall I will be in touch for sure..
I'm sorry for the brief response this morning. I was running late.
Trail is measured in length like inches not degrees. Degrees is for rake. I can only assume that your guy is building bikes with only an inch of trail. While you can set them up any way you like as long as you don't go into negative trail, I would think that while it might be easy to steer it isn't enough to allow the bike to track straight down the road. I have set my bikes up with 5 to 6 inches of trail and I have no trouble riding one handed with any of them. Again, it's all just a matter of preference. My wife has a BigDog Mastiff that has a 40 degree rake all in the neck. It feels heavy and sluggish but I haven't measured to see what the trail number is on it. That is the reason I use raked trees on my builds, to bring the trail measurement back a bit. I have never done a springer front end yet but it's on my to do list.
@WitchcraftCycleWorks I am more knowledgeable from finding your videos and I appreciate your response.. the builder I was referring to is sugar bear. I watched a interview he did where he talked about what I mentioned above. I also bought a big dog mastiff at one time super cheap but I traded it because the front end felt really heavy and it didn't ride good either. I should have taking the s&s engine and baker transmission out of it and started a new project.. I've never owned a long springer chopper but I'm determining to have one either a evo or twin cam and I want to make sure that it handles great because I plan on riding it all over and not just a bar hopper or a bike that I ride but don't enjoy on long distance rides. You're about 4 and a half hours straight south of me..
Great video. I watched because I have a friend that ones to rake his sportster and talked about doing it with triple trees. He has a 21” front wheel. Do you think he can get away w doing just the triple trees?
Too many factors involved to say for sure but I never recommend using raked trees on a stock neck. The right way is to cut the neck and reweld to whatever angle you want.
@@WitchcraftCycleWorks that’s what I was thinking. Thanks for the reply.
Would you build a frame and send it to Australia
I've never built a frame from scratch. I only modify existing frames. I don't think I'm at the level of expertise needed to ship out custom frames. Doing a complete build in shop allows me to make adjustments during the mock up if needed.
Will putting 4inch extension on and lowering the rear 4 inches affect the trail very much
You can get 4" longer tubes but I would never use the extensions. Too sketchy. Just putting 4" longer tubes in you stock trees will definitely add some trail measurement and it will also lift the front of the bike. You didn't mention what kind of bike but 4" lower in rear doesn't sound possible. The Softails I work on only sit about 5" off the ground in the rear at stock height. Even if you could, it would make for a goofy looking stance.
@WitchcraftCycleWorks 95 sportster I meant 3 inches so extension aren't safe ty for answering
@@bennygregory2629 Extensions are like a long threaded cap to extend the forks. I don't want a weak point in my forks. Especially considering the forces that can be applied to them while riding. Longer fork tubes aren't that expensive and your life depends on them.
@@bennygregory2629 Lowering a bike 1" is quite a bit. I doubt you could lower one 3" and even if you could the tire would probably rub the fender and you would be at the limit of your suspension travel.