A theory I heard for the reason why Ben liked turning into Feedback is because the Donor of Feedback’s DNA had the same personality as Ben, which makes them synchronize on a mental level. If you ask me, this could also explain why Ben would rather turn into specific aliens
With this, I'd like to imgine that Humongosaur's dna donor had a harem of Vaxasorians who were all into him, just for fate to tell him to pick the worst one.
@@Омойкороль-л3ф The Omnitrix mutates the user into what the user would be if they were born as that species, optimised version of the species relative to the user's age, examples of which being Bullfrag and Kickin' Hawk, the Ultimatrix just copy pasted the scanned alien and slapped green eyes and an omnitrix symbol onto it, but Feedback was a variation of Ben's DNA as a conductoid, I'm not sure about the similar personality theory, but Ben already had an addictive personality and Feedback was a new alien so him creating a new better version that Ben could be maybe explains why Ben liked using Feedback so much
Fun Fact: the scream that OV Flashback Ben let out when he “destroyed” Malware in this episode was also the same scream audio used in “And Then There Was Ben” when Ben gained the Omintrix
Which kinda leads to a sad and dramatic irony. The same scream is used for when Ben’s adventures with the Prototrix began, and when they (potentially) ended.
Feedback’s death always hits me, when I first watch it. In my head canon, I believe this is the reason why Ben took off the Omnitrix, other than living a normal life. Khyber Betrayed Dr. Psychobos after the argument on Azmuth.
I really appreciate that in the second Feedback flashback young Gwen says "Heat blast absorbs fire, Feedback absorbs electricity". It's both relevant to the scene, as Heat blast is obviously the better choice for a burning building, and a really natural way to setup Heatblast absorbing the fire from Pacmar's "barbecue". It's both a good reminder for old viewers and a natural way to give exposition for new viewers. When I watched this episode as a kid I hadn't seen any of classic so it was super useful.
I think Feedback/Conductoid is inherently a confident species, similar to Rath but obviously toned down a lot. 11 year old kids are usually lost on who they wanna be and they are still figuring out themselves, I think Feedback's natural assurance was why Ben loved him so much. Like a big brother you look up to and maybe obsess over.
Also Ben is a Very Energetic Kiddie Kid in some ways as a 11 year old. Sure he has Some wisdom but he’s still an energetic brat. So maybe Conductoids being walking EBatteries are just as energetic so they vibe more. Maybe if ben was say…more timid and shy. He’d be more inclined with more peaceful and diplomatic Species like chronosapiens or terraspin species.
Talking about Ben's relationship with Feedback, that last bit "like he was part of me" always stuck out to me. I think it's less of a drug parallel and more of a full-on identity. Ben's connection to Feedback feels far more like "I found something that finally feels like me," and the way the loss of Feedback affects him kind of helps.
I mean they're a bound to be trans coding, intentionally or not, just based on the premise of someone choosing different body types to express different interactions and whatnot @@sithdude2436
27:50 Love Malware line here, it's almost like a 4th wall break "Your favourite alien? Not anymore~ cuz now you gotta only love boring brute strength aliens"
@@Lulu-ew7ohThis just sound like actual dialogue, rook pointing out it's a good idea to have created debris before transforming and ben just taking credit for that
When Kevin and Vilgax forcibly removed the Omnitrix from Ben's wrist back in the OG series it looked really painful. I can only imagine the feeling of being ripped from one of his transformations before said transformation disintegrates into dust before his eyes. I would liked to have seen more of how Ben handled that experience at only 11. The trauma of the permanent separation would certainly scar him from transforming again.
I really loved how Feedback really had such an effect on him. To Ben feedback was more than a transformation he was like a cool older brother to him. When he was killed by Malware he felt true despair he felt like he lost not only a part of him but also a brother he loved and looked up to. It also shows the impact Malware had on Ben even after everything he faced. Vilgax, dagon the destroyer, and even the destruction of the very universe none of that had an effect on him besides a "it happened" moment. But Malware was someone that actually brought genuine fear inside Ben, fear that Vilgax never could bring into Ben like Malware did, it shows how much of a threat Ben takes Malware as. I also wouldn't mind a Pakmar/ Mr Baumann counter and call it a Shop repair counter. Especially since It would complete the Tetralogy of shows because each show added its own counter. Classic had hero time and mistransformations, UAF had vehicle repairs, rath rages, and going ultimate and finally OV could have the shop repair counter. Sorry for the long comment I just had a lot to say 😅
I feel like the whole "overuse of feedback could impair the other aliens" thing is similar to the supposed reason the Omnitrix has a timeout, where spending too much time in one form begins to mess with Ben mentally
This can also be implied to the original Ben 10,000 where he spend his time as XLR8 24/7 which drastically changed his mentality until his 10 year old self made him come to his senses
When it was brought up that overuse of the Conductoid DNA would have a detriment on his other transformations, I personally thought that was saying that you shouldn’t over rely on one tactic. It’s basically saying you have this one killer move that nobody can block, so you never practice using all your other moves. When an enemy comes in that actually can block your killer move, you are now out of options because you didn’t keep up and practice the others.
31:44 Ben saying that the Feedback incident is his fault is Ben acknowledging his own carelessness, which he is a lot of the time but he had an attitude of "it's OK as long as i win in the end", Feedback is one of the few ocations where things end up badly and Ben knows it
My theory is that feedback makes ben feel a certain way just like rath makes him angry i think feedback makes him feel extra confident which could be kinda adictive And this would also explain why ben grew so attached he prolly wasnt very confident as a child and he got a taste as feedback
26:15 You mentioned in the Ben10K returns breakdown that the Omnitrix/Ultimatrix could have a failsafe where if it detects the alien body getting destroyed it boots him out of the transformation, maybe what Malware did was force that failsafe to activate, allowing him to rip Ben out of Feedback.
If Dwayne Mcduffie wrote out some bullet points for the Malware Arc I can see him jotting down the idea of mirroring the Feedback transformation with drug use. But otherwise yeah I never really thought of the "intervention" being a drug metaphor.
28:27 I believe what happened was: The sudden removal and destruction of the conductoid archetype, especially when made in contact with a corrupted mechamorph caused the omnitric to go haywire. You know how computers bluescreen over extreme system errors? I believe the watch bluescreened
Honestly, as traumatizing as that must have been for Ben to lose Feedback like that, I can’t help but just look back on how he would almost always rely on one specific alien to solve his problems (mostly Four Arms to brute force his problems). Obviously, he was a kid and Tetrax taught him to strategize instead of going all in, but it doesn’t look like it stuck with him entirely.
But, thanks to the CN, Ben deflating his character growth has been apart of him throughout this Ben 10 continuity. Ever since Classic and more perceivable in Ultimate Alien.
In part 2, I like to think that Malware tries to do the same thing to Humungousaur as he did to Feedback. But in a somewhat different fashion due to Humungousaur's size. And perhaps the aspect of Feedback being an electricity-based alien also makes a difference.
The variation, of “It’s my boy” for Swampfire, and “It’s my guy” for Hypnotick, Azmuth does seem a lot like the Doctor, especially the 12th Doctor, a bit crazy, really old and very creative, also with like in “Map of Infinity” what was Azmuth reading when he said “An evolutionary feature, begging for trouble”, so Azmuth is probably just so smart to figure out that Khyber would have a failsafe for Psychobos, also Zed might be more tomboyish that girl as a dog, also for Feedback, Malware separated Ben from Feedback, which is also part of Ben’s DNA so part of Ben was missing that’s why Ben was so much more scared when he so Malware again than when he saw Vilgax
This applies that his reaction to finding out that He Might be near his death due to shame of his actions would be introducing a bunch of medieval peasants to rock and roll the word dude and helping them dig a well
I could absolutely see Azmuth having 12’s callous pragmatism, perhaps even to the point of letting people die to collect information about the Foretold, for example
@@UthmaanXDFireIn the situation I’m referring to, there wasn’t really any way to stop the deaths, but the Doctor keeps calm and tries to collect as much information as he can about the Foretold in the 66 seconds the victims have to live.
The best idea of why Feedback felt so different felt sort of like something less than an allegory for drugs but still an allegory for something bad. Him using Feedback made him happy, but it wasn't good for his health to constantly use him. And when others tried to tell him he should stop, he'd dismiss them or lash out at them when they're just trying to help. He spent too much time with him, ignoring his other aliens, ignoring the people around him, ignoring his own health to be with Feedback because he liked Feedback so much. Ben's relationship with Feedback is one he hasn't had with any other alien, a toxic one. Feedback is an allegory for a toxic codependent relationship.
Instead of drugs maybe Feedback can be seen as a codependent relationship, where the amount of time and engery spent on a person is obsessive and keeps them from living a normal life. This I think works better because the person that their obessed with doesn't have to be abusing them in some way and is usually a level of mutual admiration. That would be what felt different as Ben loved being Feedback, he could feel that Feedback loved Ben being him. Something similar would be the relationship between Eddie Brock and Venom from Marvel.
22:28 Personally, i've always thought of it in the completely opposite ways. Every transformation of Ben changes his personality, most of them just slightly (diamondhead is a little more stoic, humongosaur is more violent, Ripjaws makes him more "monstrous", Swampfire is more down to business, and so on), and some much more heavily (as you said, Rath, Juryrigg, Ditto, Green Needle). But when Ben transforms into Feedback, he seems just like himself. My take on that has always been that Feedback's species basic instincts are similar to Ben's personality, and so, Feedback is the only transformation on which Ben has powers, and at the same time, is still, completely himself. (As already specified, that's just how i0ve always seen it)
I personally believe that Feedback getting pulled out might be a fail safe to keep the user alive, sacrificing the transformation to keep the wearer safe as if Ben died as an alien he might actually die so the omnitrix just kills the dna to allow ben to live.
For the thing about Ben being separated from his transformations, I believe it could be a failsafe of a form being killed, the original DNA being replicated, and a new body is formed. However in the Malware case, he seems to have half absorbed the form at that point, the Onmitrix having to detransform Ben, but Malware having a corrupted copy of the Omnitrix is keeping the data and not allowing the data to go back to the true Omnitrix.
Is it possible that when Feedback absorbs electricity it hits neurons in his brain in a way that Ben's human mind can't comprehend, so it just feels good
My personal headcannon its that feedback had a similar personality to ben but with more confidence, like, feedback makes him feel so much more powerful, not physically, but mentally, he feels like he can take on anything and even is more jokey and talkative with whoever he's fighting.
I always liked the idea of Ben seeing his transformations as another part of himself, as other personas or other ways to view the world around him, so him losing one of them in such a violent way would be so traumatizing, specially losing his favorite one to be. As a trans person I can say that the idea of losing the ability to be the version of yourself you like the most... it hits hard y'know. On top of that I believe that Ben's trauma from this also extends from the fact that he couldn't do anything this time around. Whenever a villain threatens the universe or whatever he's able to stop them, but in this case he couldn't, he had to watch as Feedback was erased in front of his eyes. All of this happening to someone so young... it makes me feel so bad for Ben.
Something I like about the story with Feedback and also why I personally didn’t see it as an allegory for drugs is that even when he got the transformation back, he didn’t make the same mistake and overuse him again. He still used Feedback, but it wasn’t the only one he used. We also point out how he is always trying to use the same muscleheaded aliens over and over again, but this does feel like a time where he did learn his lesson and it stuck.
I never understood why Azmuth couldn't do some work on the Omnitrix to make it accept Conductoid DNA again. Yeah the Omnitrix blocked it as a precaution, but Azmuth built it and understands it better than anybody. He could just program it say that its ok to accept it and manually put a new sample in.
Love Dr who. My aunt introduced it to me with the episode blink. I have my favorite quote from the episode on a poster hanging on my door "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect but actually from a non-linear, non subjective viewpoint. It's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff"
Maybe Malware did something similar to when Ben and Kevin hacked the Omnitrix and caused some of the aliens to escape in UAF, maybe he can just do it since he's a mechamorph, Alternatively, maybe Malware split Feedback by taking out the conductoid DNA and some of ben's DNA, basically creating a second ben that's feedback, which would explain ben saying that Feedback felt different? IDK, It's just a theory (A Ben 10 theory!)
I love the Feedback arc it goes so hard everytime I watch it. The show did a good job show us how important he was to Ben and I think they did great showing Ben’s emotions towards everything. Watching Malware destroy Feedback was so shocking seeing transformation die like that was insane can’t wait for pt2
Since the omnitrix was made as the ultimate comunication device, i interpret Ben becoming really fond of Feedback and Ben having really enjoying the things he learnt from becoming Feedback Kinda like how some people's lives changed bc of an experience they had in a different culture, i feel like Ben felt something like that from transforming into Feedback
I think Ben is guilty about losing Feedback because in his mind he put Feedback in the situation that destroyed him ,like Gwen said he could've transformed into Diamondhead or another one of his aliens ,but he stubbornly turned into Feedback probably to show everyone that Feedback is the best ,but instead it lead to his destruction
I remember seeing a theory somewhere that the reason Ben liked being feedback so much is because in his past life he was a conductoid and every since then it became my headcannon as to why he preferred being feedback
I remember watching this episode as a kid and I felt it when Ben lost Feedback, minus the fact that he’s my favourite alien in the whole series. It felt relatable, almost like losing apart of yourself. I also feel like losing Feedback could be the main reason why he never went Hero again until AF.
23:54 I've always taken it as this would be an issue if he was using any single alien as much as he was with Feedback. Max pretty much says exactly this right before Azmuth starts talking and it does make some sense that overusing any one alien form would cause issues with the omnitrix and using other forms.
2:52 this one’s hilarious 5:06 yeah, and how did the others not hear them come in? 5:40 maybe it’s like a energy cannon or something? 6:47 i feel like it’s more of Azmuth somehow destroying it 9:24 probably the first one 11:00 do whatever you want 12:43 maybe Malware deactivated them somehow 16:19 C 17:1317:23 does this count as the other answers? 18:15 Probably like chili fries and Mr. Smoothies or something 19:44 that, or he’s just making a random noise to see what transformation Zed would become 21:50 Probably no 22:33 maybe using Feedback to absorb and release energy also like mess with his head a little somehow as he also has the tendril plug things on his head, and since the omnitrix isn’t really “complete” maybe it doesn’t have a way to stop that 24:41 maybe just Feedback, but I can see those like GhostFreak and Buzzshock being affected as well
17:09 trust me if you were held like that every time someone picked you up for years you would either start to like it in secret or just hate it Also it is the easiest way to hold a Galvan
I think what Azmuth said about using one alien too much applies to all of Ben's transformations. Like if he used Heatblast too much, it might get tricky to control Fourarms because Tetramand don't have the ability to control fire. Or overusing Diamondhead might make it tricky to control XLR8 because Petrosapiens don't have super speed.
I Think Ben felt so close to feedback may be cuz conductoids may have a trickster personality similar to Ben just as Rath's species tends to be violent So feedback already having Ben's personality does resonate with him, like if Using a tailor-mafe suit, Made specifically for you
you know what would be amazing? a plot line about ben10 discovering shocksquatch and hoping it'd feel like feedback but it didn't so he just breaks down
13:03 one of my headcanons is that this is due to his improvisations on his brain that we could see when he "stunned" malware and khyber with his eletricity in the outbreak episode, like those have either a drawback or an previous incident that messed up with an certain part of his brain.
It’s staying one alien affecting his control over his other aliens isn’t just a Feedback thing, there’s a throwaway line during the Incursean war arc after Ben comes back from the exile where Ben said being Bullfrag for so long messed with his ability to control XLR8
Personally I think if you do decide to do a Pakmar/Baumann counter I would pair them together too. You could even give it some kind of a name like “Ben’s Tab” since I believe they usually claim they’re going to bill Ben for the damage
Yes, please make the Salesman Destruction Counter! 13:12 that and yeah, while it did take Psychobos much less time to create the Nemetrix, he created it using blueprints from the Omnitrix while Azmuth did it from scratch. If Psychobos were to make it that way it would probably take him way longer than Azmuth 15:41 Oh my God, that synched so well XD
10:52 I mean, you did do a Kevin’s car counter, which is pretty much the same joke. I say just lump it all under “Ben 10 Destruction” or “Reckless Wrecks”, a counter for every time Ben just recklessly destroys stuff for the sake of a gag
I'll never understand why some of the executives and even some of the crew members reject the loss of Feedback being the reason why Ben took off the omnitrix. You can't say it doesn't work as a narrative becuase Ben had a close attachment to Feedback, he loved using it and seeing him losing Feedback, blaming himself probably to the point where he wanted to take some time off and just want to try enjoying being normal. Hence why he decided to remove the omnitrix. This is also a very common trope for characters who gave up the thing they love due to a traumatic event. You also can't say it contradicts anything previously cause the only thing we got from Alien force was Gwen saying how hard it was removing the omnitrix. Idk, i don't get why since it seem like this was naturally gonna fit as the reason why Ben took off the omnitrix and i believe DJW was on board with this idea but I to me I'll always say the loss of Feedback is what made Ben took off the omnitrix.
My theory for Ben's addiction to Feedback is because of absorbing electricity gives him a rush/boost similar to how kid Kevin whenever he absorbs power/electricity, which doesn't beat the allegations about the parallels.
I think Azmuth calling him Feedback in the present as opposed to Conductoid DNA in the flashback is to show a change in Azmuth/show him understanding that The Feedback Incident had a genuine emotional impact on Ben and he wanted to treat that past trauma with proper respect by using the transformations name and not the category of DNA.
To be specific it’s a moon but they way he did it I believe people did the math or wat ever and said it can be all the way up to dwarf star level GBE amount witch is what I believe is the standard used for comparing feats of destroying celestial bodies
I think it’d have been really cool if in Ben 10,000 Returns, when Ben Prime gets all his alien forms back, he asks something like “even-“ and then Ultimate Ben cuts him off and says something like “not him, there are some things even I can’t do”. Of course, Feedback wasn’t conceptualized back then, but it’s fun to think about.
One thing I was thinking was that Malware was corrupting Ben's aliens,so he wouldn't be able to use them.Kind of like a corrupted file.Which gives him only one alien to use that his family told him not to:Feedback.
26:18 I've started thinking of this scene as malware detransformed Ben but had feedback's DNA pulled out of the Omnitrix. The DNA was then shown physically as feedback's body but he wasn't actually holding feedback, instead his arm kinda formed into feedback's body, and then he disintegrated what he was holding (feedback's DNA) instead of absorbing it. Maybe because absorbing it the way he can absorb tech and weaponry isn't something he can do since he's a Galvanic Mechamorph. However, the reason it looks like he's actually holding feedback is because the creators wanted to do something like Demon Slayer does, where the swordsmen aren't actually emitting fire, lightning, etc, but all that is shown so we get a better, more dramatic sense of what's happening.
I have a personal theory that the reason why Malware was able to take feedback was because of Ben's repetitive use of feedback, like the continuous use or something created an opening in Ben's DNA or the Omnitrix that Malware took advantage.
21:57 I feel like the Ultimates are more appropriate for an allegory for drugs as much like in real life Ben knew he shouldn’t use them unless he had to and he ends up using them like additional aliens than anything more
Whovian over here. I never actually wrote it, but I plotted out a Doctor Who/Ben 10 crossover fanfic when I was in high school or university. It involved the Daleks capturing Ben and using a similar plot Vilgax did at the end of Alien Force, where they use the Ultimatrix to turn ben into an Ultimate Dalek and use that template to create a whole army of them. I don't remember many details about it apart from that, other than putting in a running gag where Ben keeps trying to subtly scan the Doctor so he can turn into a Time Lord, only for the Doctor to erase the transformation with his sonic screwdriver every time before Ben could use it. (I think the Weeping Angels were involved too somehow?)
I think the main reason feedback never came back wasnt usable despite using different omnitrixs is that the dna was present in the new omnitrixs, but bens trauma was the lock azmuth was refering to. So when he got the new omnitrixs the only thing keeping ben from using feedback again was his own trauma of feedbacks death and when the trauma gets resolved he unlocks it again.
The way I like to explain the fact that aliens like Feedback and Way big die but Ben survives despite being basically the same individual is that the Omnitrix releases the gennotype of that alien to make it take the damage instead of Ben (similar to how the ultimate aliens got sentient and were released from the ultimatrix or how Ben had to collect the aliens that went missing after he tried to get the master control causing Kevin to mutate or how ghostfreak got out of the Omnitrix in the original series). There are many instances of the Omnitrix literally creating aliens that work as a separate entity from Ben. So the failsafe just makes the alien real to protect Ben from any harm. And when it comes to his obsession with Feedback I think that the aliens in the show (or the life forms in general) that absorb/use energy (like electricity) always go crazy when they get too much and turn into jerks (like what happened to Kevin) and the fact that electricity/energy absorbsion causes addiction and affect personality could be further proven with examples like the personalities of the two Andromeda five members that use energy as well (both of them were portrayed as jerks when they first appeared)..
I think Malware basically corrupted the file. Way Big and Swampfire "died," but Feedback got corrupted. Or maybe Malware damaged like, the "slot" the DNA is supposed to be stored in. And I think Azmuth chose not to restore the DNA as a result of how Ben had been using him. I doubt there was no way he could've. The pulling Ben out of Feedback I think was just Ben detransforming but the body of Feedback remained. Same with UA where Way Big and Swampfire died, and Ben detransformed, but their bodies lingered Also, I think what they meant by his ability to control other forms is that Ben essentially has to have muscle memory for how to use his aliens, at least during OS, and using one too much could lead him to forgetting how to use the others. Like if you play a couple different games, you kinda have the muscle memory for all of them, but if you play one for weeks straight you might lose that muscle memory you'd built for the others
this was so cool when i watched it for the first time, when ben losed feedback and when ben accepts his younger self stiol give me goosebumbs to this day, show down part 1 and 2 are still some of the best ben 10 episodes ever made, also a packmar and balman counter would be really cool, maybe it could be called the Tennysonnnn counter
I think the issue with the Nemetrix is that the interactions are already played out, on top of future engagements being predictable. Ben doesnt have the ability to gain the advantage, because Zed always turns into the exact counter. And its not like Ben can work his way around them like Superman fighting Metallo; its just Ben losing immediately or needing to switch. I think having Khyber use more unorthodox predator choices because he can visualize certain predators defeating aliens from different ecosystems, and Ben maybe doing the same would make it way more fun; tons of experimentation can be done with how these beings can interact, like how would Heatblast react to a Muciloid? Would HypnoTick’s abilities work on Wildmutt? Stuff like that
Since both the counts for car repairs and Rath rageouts barely increases since the main series those gags were introduced in has ended it would make sense to add 1 or 2 new counters specifically for what standout gags this series gave us. Both the melman and packmar counters would be perfect for this series as well as a rook counter for him going "I do not know what that means"
20:00 correct me if I am wrong, but I think in Predators and Prey part 2, Kyber did have a different sounding whistle when ordering Zed as Tyrannopede to kill Ben as Humungosaur. It was more high pitched and aggressive sounding.
I feel like what happens to the aliens is the omnitrix failsafe gets activated (because in this instance ripping the omnitrix out of ben when he is an alien would technically kill ben and when Eon does the time thingy, he is basically killing ben) it creates a shield around ben, the shield being the alien bodies themselves.
I feel that the overdependence on Feedback affecting Ben's control of other aliens can be paralleled with video games. Like all having different controls and whatnot, similar to aliens with their powers, and when you play too much of one game, your reflexive actions get used to those. Like I play Fortnite, but whenever I take a break from it and finish another game, like Hades or Assassin's Creed, the shift back to Fortnite controls takes time to settle in. So, the same logic can be applied here, and can have dangerous consequences if Ben mistransforms and his reflexive actions aren't on par, or maybe that he chooses Feedback at the wrong time, or whatnot
I would opt for a Bauman and Pakmar counter because even though Albedo will go ultimate later on, it's only a few times, with even Hero Time getting more usage as we even saw in this episode. Hereby the Ultimate counter is ultimately done and we could almost sub it in with a new one.
I always head cannoned that the reason Ben loved using Feedback so much was because on a subconscious level it made him feel like an Anodite, even if he didn't know it at the time. It tapped into a part of him that made him feel limitless and powerful. It made him feel like he was finally home in an alien body. Feedback was the one alien that Ben felt like he was being true to himself.
I think it's a lot simpler then people are bringing it up to be, Ben becomes overly reliant on Feedback he may find he chose Feedback for the wrong situation or the way he uses other alien will become worse since he's using them less and less so doesn't have the muscle memory to use them right.
How i like to think of it is when Malware tore ben out of feedback (or even when Eon turned Waybig and Swampfire to dust) the omnitrix did something similar to what it did when ben held the big bang. And that feedback could've been the original body and the ben that got torn out was a remade body the Omnitrix created. Assuming it had the failsafe ever since the prototype
My theory is that Feedback requires a large amount of dexterity compared to other transformation from around the same time. If we look at all of the aliens Ben unlocked in the OG series we can see that they're all mostly humanoid and you can likely imagine how they would move based on our own anatomy. We think before we act (for the most part) so it would be easy to imagine the premeditated movements Ben makes in his head compared to a regular person. By comparison, Feedback has 3 extra appendages alongside the ability to absorb and fire electricity. Whereas all the other transformations have 1-2 extra appendages or an ability that likely requires a moderate amount of concentration. I theorize that Feedback takes more concentration compared to the other aliens and would likely cause some habits to appear should he transform into any other alien. At the end of the day, Ben is still human and likely still functions w/ a purely human brain inside the alien body and humans have a tendency to make several unconscious habitual movements no matter how minor they seem. Think of it like this, if you suddenly grew a tail but lost it after a year, you would still likely move in certain ways that were caused by you having that tail. And this point it almost feels like I'm explaining phantom limb syndrome but I think the idea should be clear. Ben overusing Feedback likely has mental side effects for other alien transformations since it's still Ben brain inside that big ol' alien body
I feel like what Azmuth and Grandpa Max were saying isn't as much that using any one alien too much has an effect on Ben through the Omnitrix, but that he's mentally boxing himself in. By constantly spamming one thing, he loses the flexibility in his mindset and makes worse decisions as a result. It's like learning a new move in a video game and using it every chance you get regardless of whether it's good for the situation.
Feedback's powers might give a similar effect to Kevin's energy absorption powers (once you start you get addicted and can't stop) and that's why Ben got so addicted to using feedback. Dude was fucking around in a junkyard as feedback, looking for car batteries to drain. I know Ben fucked around with his aliens a lot as a kid but even he said feedback just felt different
I think it would have been cool if we seen Khyber train with Zed's Nemetrix transformations. But my cope for that is he doesn't care about her beyond her hunting capabilities, which he DOESN'T care about her, can't even bother to realize she's female. So that's...enough. I dunno, kinda underwhelming to just have her play Cat and Mouse with Ben each time.
14:08 Isn't it weird that Galvans apperently never made any doom preparations incase something or someone revives their predator? Feels weird that Azmuth is running away like that and not using some security protocol I get that it's extinct but cmon, it's Azmuth, he should've prepped better xd
I dont think Feedback is an allegory to addiction to drugs specifically, but more akin to addiction/compulsion as a whole. You can take something that is actually benefitial to you and overuse it so much that it can start to become detrimental, even if its not a chemical of sort. I think what the show is trying to tell is to have temperance and self control on the things that we indulge in.
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When humans think we tend to stutter in those thoughts, so that's most likely what is happening when he stutters.
A theory I heard for the reason why Ben liked turning into Feedback is because the Donor of Feedback’s DNA had the same personality as Ben, which makes them synchronize on a mental level. If you ask me, this could also explain why Ben would rather turn into specific aliens
With this, I'd like to imgine that Humongosaur's dna donor had a harem of Vaxasorians who were all into him, just for fate to tell him to pick the worst one.
Where did you hear this theory
Omnitrix doesn't turn user into a clone of scanned alien. It only uses it to make a unique being of the same species.
@@Омойкороль-л3ф The Omnitrix mutates the user into what the user would be if they were born as that species, optimised version of the species relative to the user's age, examples of which being Bullfrag and Kickin' Hawk, the Ultimatrix just copy pasted the scanned alien and slapped green eyes and an omnitrix symbol onto it, but Feedback was a variation of Ben's DNA as a conductoid, I'm not sure about the similar personality theory, but Ben already had an addictive personality and Feedback was a new alien so him creating a new better version that Ben could be maybe explains why Ben liked using Feedback so much
That also proves why Ben felt so much weird while transforming into Ghostfreak
Fun Fact: the scream that OV Flashback Ben let out when he “destroyed” Malware in this episode was also the same scream audio used in “And Then There Was Ben” when Ben gained the Omintrix
Which kinda leads to a sad and dramatic irony. The same scream is used for when Ben’s adventures with the Prototrix began, and when they (potentially) ended.
Feedback’s death always hits me, when I first watch it.
In my head canon, I believe this is the reason why Ben took off the Omnitrix, other than living a normal life.
Khyber Betrayed Dr. Psychobos after the argument on Azmuth.
I think your headcanon was originally going to be canon but got discarded. Not 100% sure though; it's a rumor I heard, never found clear confirmation.
I rewatched this episode yesterday and almost cried when Feedback was removed I don’t know why
@@Theokal3 djw and Matt Wayne confirmed it and this is implied in flashback in next episode as well
That is implied in flashback of next episode and djw and Matt wayne also confirmed it
@@Theokal3 who discarded that? Cartoon network? Fuck that ,it is not retconned in the show
I really appreciate that in the second Feedback flashback young Gwen says "Heat blast absorbs fire, Feedback absorbs electricity". It's both relevant to the scene, as Heat blast is obviously the better choice for a burning building, and a really natural way to setup Heatblast absorbing the fire from Pacmar's "barbecue". It's both a good reminder for old viewers and a natural way to give exposition for new viewers. When I watched this episode as a kid I hadn't seen any of classic so it was super useful.
Yeah it's a nice touch.
But, feedback absorbs all kinds of energy. Shouldn't he be able to absorb fire??
@@N.I.A23 id like to see you try and charge your phone with a canpfire
@@nateds7326 I can't charge my phone with plasma beams or laser blasts, yet feedback can absorb those...
I think Feedback/Conductoid is inherently a confident species, similar to Rath but obviously toned down a lot. 11 year old kids are usually lost on who they wanna be and they are still figuring out themselves, I think Feedback's natural assurance was why Ben loved him so much. Like a big brother you look up to and maybe obsess over.
Aww. Now i want big brother feedback with little ben artwork. That just sounds so cute
Also Ben is a Very Energetic Kiddie Kid in some ways as a 11 year old. Sure he has Some wisdom but he’s still an energetic brat. So maybe Conductoids being walking EBatteries are just as energetic so they vibe more.
Maybe if ben was say…more timid and shy. He’d be more inclined with more peaceful and diplomatic Species like chronosapiens or terraspin species.
Talking about Ben's relationship with Feedback, that last bit "like he was part of me" always stuck out to me. I think it's less of a drug parallel and more of a full-on identity. Ben's connection to Feedback feels far more like "I found something that finally feels like me," and the way the loss of Feedback affects him kind of helps.
I'm getting vague Trans vibes here, maybe it's just me? But the whole "this body feels more like myself than anything else" kinda works for that.
I mean they're a bound to be trans coding, intentionally or not, just based on the premise of someone choosing different body types to express different interactions and whatnot @@sithdude2436
@sithdude2436 oh you're definitely not alone in that. That's exactly what I got from it as well.
@@sithdude2436 I'd say it's closer to a general body dismorphia allegory.
I mean, it *is* a pretty overpowered and cocky alien that can pretty much use any enemy's energy attacks against them. Duh Ben would love it :)
27:50 Love Malware line here, it's almost like a 4th wall break "Your favourite alien? Not anymore~ cuz now you gotta only love boring brute strength aliens"
Lmfao that's so ironic.
You could say Ben staying as Humungosaur was a brilliant tactical move, it gave him a lot of debris for Ball Weevil
That implies Ben actually plan on using weevil
@@Lulu-ew7ohif so that’s very smart
@@donathan2933 it would be but this OV ben who barely even looks at the watch so I doubt he Intentionally turn into him
@@Lulu-ew7oh yeah 😂
@@Lulu-ew7ohThis just sound like actual dialogue, rook pointing out it's a good idea to have created debris before transforming and ben just taking credit for that
Gwen: "Would you lose, Ben?"
Ben/Feedback: "Nah, I'd win."
Lobotomy Kaisen finds its way everywhere.
@@yashvirsingh1268I call it Jujutsu Midsen
Have u seen the jjk edit with Ben 10 theme song😭
@@MegaPokefan97only s1 is mid. Watch s2 or Ur missing out
@@yashvirsingh1268LOBOTOMY? 🔥⬇️🕳️
Say where the fire is...
When Kevin and Vilgax forcibly removed the Omnitrix from Ben's wrist back in the OG series it looked really painful. I can only imagine the feeling of being ripped from one of his transformations before said transformation disintegrates into dust before his eyes. I would liked to have seen more of how Ben handled that experience at only 11. The trauma of the permanent separation would certainly scar him from transforming again.
I really loved how Feedback really had such an effect on him.
To Ben feedback was more than a transformation he was like a cool older brother to him.
When he was killed by Malware he felt true despair he felt like he lost not only a part of him but also a brother he loved and looked up to.
It also shows the impact Malware had on Ben even after everything he faced.
Vilgax, dagon the destroyer, and even the destruction of the very universe none of that had an effect on him besides a "it happened" moment.
But Malware was someone that actually brought genuine fear inside Ben, fear that Vilgax never could bring into Ben like Malware did, it shows how much of a threat Ben takes Malware as.
I also wouldn't mind a Pakmar/ Mr Baumann counter and call it a Shop repair counter.
Especially since It would complete the Tetralogy of shows because each show added its own counter.
Classic had hero time and mistransformations, UAF had vehicle repairs, rath rages, and going ultimate and finally OV could have the shop repair counter.
Sorry for the long comment I just had a lot to say 😅
I feel like the whole "overuse of feedback could impair the other aliens" thing is similar to the supposed reason the Omnitrix has a timeout, where spending too much time in one form begins to mess with Ben mentally
I think the ultimate Kevin arc was the one where Ben learned the true meaning of losing.
This can also be implied to the original Ben 10,000 where he spend his time as XLR8 24/7 which drastically changed his mentality until his 10 year old self made him come to his senses
When it was brought up that overuse of the Conductoid DNA would have a detriment on his other transformations, I personally thought that was saying that you shouldn’t over rely on one tactic. It’s basically saying you have this one killer move that nobody can block, so you never practice using all your other moves. When an enemy comes in that actually can block your killer move, you are now out of options because you didn’t keep up and practice the others.
31:44 Ben saying that the Feedback incident is his fault is Ben acknowledging his own carelessness, which he is a lot of the time but he had an attitude of "it's OK as long as i win in the end", Feedback is one of the few ocations where things end up badly and Ben knows it
Feedback is so cool, and his powers are so simple yet so practical that he fits right in with the cast of aliens from the original series.
My theory is that feedback makes ben feel a certain way just like rath makes him angry i think feedback makes him feel extra confident which could be kinda adictive
And this would also explain why ben grew so attached he prolly wasnt very confident as a child and he got a taste as feedback
26:15 You mentioned in the Ben10K returns breakdown that the Omnitrix/Ultimatrix could have a failsafe where if it detects the alien body getting destroyed it boots him out of the transformation, maybe what Malware did was force that failsafe to activate, allowing him to rip Ben out of Feedback.
31:30 Kuro's cute cat just casually licking in the background 😂❤
If Dwayne Mcduffie wrote out some bullet points for the Malware Arc I can see him jotting down the idea of mirroring the Feedback transformation with drug use. But otherwise yeah I never really thought of the "intervention" being a drug metaphor.
28:27 I believe what happened was: The sudden removal and destruction of the conductoid archetype, especially when made in contact with a corrupted mechamorph caused the omnitric to go haywire. You know how computers bluescreen over extreme system errors? I believe the watch bluescreened
Honestly, as traumatizing as that must have been for Ben to lose Feedback like that, I can’t help but just look back on how he would almost always rely on one specific alien to solve his problems (mostly Four Arms to brute force his problems). Obviously, he was a kid and Tetrax taught him to strategize instead of going all in, but it doesn’t look like it stuck with him entirely.
But, thanks to the CN, Ben deflating his character growth has been apart of him throughout this Ben 10 continuity. Ever since Classic and more perceivable in Ultimate Alien.
@@harrietr.5073 They gave him the worst aspects of the original series sadly
In part 2, I like to think that Malware tries to do the same thing to Humungousaur as he did to Feedback. But in a somewhat different fashion due to Humungousaur's size. And perhaps the aspect of Feedback being an electricity-based alien also makes a difference.
The variation, of “It’s my boy” for Swampfire, and “It’s my guy” for Hypnotick, Azmuth does seem a lot like the Doctor, especially the 12th Doctor, a bit crazy, really old and very creative, also with like in “Map of Infinity” what was Azmuth reading when he said “An evolutionary feature, begging for trouble”, so Azmuth is probably just so smart to figure out that Khyber would have a failsafe for Psychobos, also Zed might be more tomboyish that girl as a dog, also for Feedback, Malware separated Ben from Feedback, which is also part of Ben’s DNA so part of Ben was missing that’s why Ben was so much more scared when he so Malware again than when he saw Vilgax
This applies that his reaction to finding out that He Might be near his death due to shame of his actions would be introducing a bunch of medieval peasants to rock and roll the word dude and helping them dig a well
@@plantainsame2049 haha definitely
I could absolutely see Azmuth having 12’s callous pragmatism, perhaps even to the point of letting people die to collect information about the Foretold, for example
@@idle_speculation I dont think Azmuth would let people die if it wasn't completely necessary, but he is a bit of a jerk alot of the times
@@UthmaanXDFireIn the situation I’m referring to, there wasn’t really any way to stop the deaths, but the Doctor keeps calm and tries to collect as much information as he can about the Foretold in the 66 seconds the victims have to live.
The best idea of why Feedback felt so different felt sort of like something less than an allegory for drugs but still an allegory for something bad.
Him using Feedback made him happy, but it wasn't good for his health to constantly use him. And when others tried to tell him he should stop, he'd dismiss them or lash out at them when they're just trying to help. He spent too much time with him, ignoring his other aliens, ignoring the people around him, ignoring his own health to be with Feedback because he liked Feedback so much.
Ben's relationship with Feedback is one he hasn't had with any other alien, a toxic one.
Feedback is an allegory for a toxic codependent relationship.
Instead of drugs maybe Feedback can be seen as a codependent relationship, where the amount of time and engery spent on a person is obsessive and keeps them from living a normal life. This I think works better because the person that their obessed with doesn't have to be abusing them in some way and is usually a level of mutual admiration. That would be what felt different as Ben loved being Feedback, he could feel that Feedback loved Ben being him. Something similar would be the relationship between Eddie Brock and Venom from Marvel.
22:28
Personally, i've always thought of it in the completely opposite ways. Every transformation of Ben changes his personality, most of them just slightly (diamondhead is a little more stoic, humongosaur is more violent, Ripjaws makes him more "monstrous", Swampfire is more down to business, and so on), and some much more heavily (as you said, Rath, Juryrigg, Ditto, Green Needle). But when Ben transforms into Feedback, he seems just like himself. My take on that has always been that Feedback's species basic instincts are similar to Ben's personality, and so, Feedback is the only transformation on which Ben has powers, and at the same time, is still, completely himself.
(As already specified, that's just how i0ve always seen it)
Damn an entire essay
I personally believe that Feedback getting pulled out might be a fail safe to keep the user alive, sacrificing the transformation to keep the wearer safe as if Ben died as an alien he might actually die so the omnitrix just kills the dna to allow ben to live.
Thats the logical explanation
For the thing about Ben being separated from his transformations, I believe it could be a failsafe of a form being killed, the original DNA being replicated, and a new body is formed. However in the Malware case, he seems to have half absorbed the form at that point, the Onmitrix having to detransform Ben, but Malware having a corrupted copy of the Omnitrix is keeping the data and not allowing the data to go back to the true Omnitrix.
Is it possible that when Feedback absorbs electricity it hits neurons in his brain in a way that Ben's human mind can't comprehend, so it just feels good
My personal headcannon its that feedback had a similar personality to ben but with more confidence, like, feedback makes him feel so much more powerful, not physically, but mentally, he feels like he can take on anything and even is more jokey and talkative with whoever he's fighting.
I always liked the idea of Ben seeing his transformations as another part of himself, as other personas or other ways to view the world around him, so him losing one of them in such a violent way would be so traumatizing, specially losing his favorite one to be. As a trans person I can say that the idea of losing the ability to be the version of yourself you like the most... it hits hard y'know.
On top of that I believe that Ben's trauma from this also extends from the fact that he couldn't do anything this time around. Whenever a villain threatens the universe or whatever he's able to stop them, but in this case he couldn't, he had to watch as Feedback was erased in front of his eyes.
All of this happening to someone so young... it makes me feel so bad for Ben.
We’ve finally reached it folks, we’ve finally reached THE episode.
Something I like about the story with Feedback and also why I personally didn’t see it as an allegory for drugs is that even when he got the transformation back, he didn’t make the same mistake and overuse him again. He still used Feedback, but it wasn’t the only one he used. We also point out how he is always trying to use the same muscleheaded aliens over and over again, but this does feel like a time where he did learn his lesson and it stuck.
Especially sumo slammers. It's not only his favorite thing to collect, but he's also obsessed with sumo slammers.
I never understood why Azmuth couldn't do some work on the Omnitrix to make it accept Conductoid DNA again. Yeah the Omnitrix blocked it as a precaution, but Azmuth built it and understands it better than anybody. He could just program it say that its ok to accept it and manually put a new sample in.
Love Dr who. My aunt introduced it to me with the episode blink. I have my favorite quote from the episode on a poster hanging on my door
"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect but actually from a non-linear, non subjective viewpoint. It's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff"
Maybe Malware did something similar to when Ben and Kevin hacked the Omnitrix and caused some of the aliens to escape in UAF, maybe he can just do it since he's a mechamorph,
Alternatively, maybe Malware split Feedback by taking out the conductoid DNA and some of ben's DNA, basically creating a second ben that's feedback, which would explain ben saying that Feedback felt different? IDK, It's just a theory (A Ben 10 theory!)
28:10 that jumpcut was hilarious
I love the Feedback arc it goes so hard everytime I watch it. The show did a good job show us how important he was to Ben and I think they did great showing Ben’s emotions towards everything. Watching Malware destroy Feedback was so shocking seeing transformation die like that was insane can’t wait for pt2
Since the omnitrix was made as the ultimate comunication device, i interpret Ben becoming really fond of Feedback and Ben having really enjoying the things he learnt from becoming Feedback
Kinda like how some people's lives changed bc of an experience they had in a different culture, i feel like Ben felt something like that from transforming into Feedback
I still love the fact that this Galvan is based on teen Sari Sumdac from transformers animated. And rest in peace, DJW.
His face at 28:11 is killing me 😭😭
I think Ben is guilty about losing Feedback because in his mind he put Feedback in the situation that destroyed him ,like Gwen said he could've transformed into Diamondhead or another one of his aliens ,but he stubbornly turned into Feedback probably to show everyone that Feedback is the best ,but instead it lead to his destruction
Agreed!
I remember seeing a theory somewhere that the reason Ben liked being feedback so much is because in his past life he was a conductoid and every since then it became my headcannon as to why he preferred being feedback
I remember watching this episode as a kid and I felt it when Ben lost Feedback, minus the fact that he’s my favourite alien in the whole series. It felt relatable, almost like losing apart of yourself.
I also feel like losing Feedback could be the main reason why he never went Hero again until AF.
23:54 I've always taken it as this would be an issue if he was using any single alien as much as he was with Feedback. Max pretty much says exactly this right before Azmuth starts talking and it does make some sense that overusing any one alien form would cause issues with the omnitrix and using other forms.
27:47 Malware: Omniverse
Ben: Kuro
Feedback dying: Swampfire Blossoming
We don’t even know how much he dislikes bloomed Swampfire
@@axelnilsson5124I can kinda understand. I feel the colors are a tad bit bright, and the feet should have stayed roots/trunk shaped
2:52 this one’s hilarious
5:06 yeah, and how did the others not hear them come in?
5:40 maybe it’s like a energy cannon or something?
6:47 i feel like it’s more of Azmuth somehow destroying it
9:24 probably the first one
11:00 do whatever you want
12:43 maybe Malware deactivated them somehow
16:19 C
17:13 17:23 does this count as the other answers?
18:15 Probably like chili fries and Mr. Smoothies or something
19:44 that, or he’s just making a random noise to see what transformation Zed would become
21:50 Probably no
22:33 maybe using Feedback to absorb and release energy also like mess with his head a little somehow as he also has the tendril plug things on his head, and since the omnitrix isn’t really “complete” maybe it doesn’t have a way to stop that
24:41 maybe just Feedback, but I can see those like GhostFreak and Buzzshock being affected as well
17:09 trust me if you were held like that every time someone picked you up for years you would either start to like it in secret or just hate it
Also it is the easiest way to hold a Galvan
I think what Azmuth said about using one alien too much applies to all of Ben's transformations. Like if he used Heatblast too much, it might get tricky to control Fourarms because Tetramand don't have the ability to control fire. Or overusing Diamondhead might make it tricky to control XLR8 because Petrosapiens don't have super speed.
9:20 The lightning streaks were a great addition
I Think Ben felt so close to feedback may be cuz conductoids may have a trickster personality similar to Ben just as Rath's species tends to be violent
So feedback already having Ben's personality does resonate with him, like if Using a tailor-mafe suit, Made specifically for you
Kuro the artist with gorgeous hair isn't real, he can't hurt you.
Kuro the artist with gorgeous hair:
you know what would be amazing? a plot line about ben10 discovering shocksquatch and hoping it'd feel like feedback but it didn't so he just breaks down
13:03 one of my headcanons is that this is due to his improvisations on his brain that we could see when he "stunned" malware and khyber with his eletricity in the outbreak episode, like those have either a drawback or an previous incident that messed up with an certain part of his brain.
I'm so excited to find out what other worlds we are going to explore in And Beyond.
It’s staying one alien affecting his control over his other aliens isn’t just a Feedback thing, there’s a throwaway line during the Incursean war arc after Ben comes back from the exile where Ben said being Bullfrag for so long messed with his ability to control XLR8
Personally I think if you do decide to do a Pakmar/Baumann counter I would pair them together too. You could even give it some kind of a name like “Ben’s Tab” since I believe they usually claim they’re going to bill Ben for the damage
Yes, please make the Salesman Destruction Counter!
13:12 that and yeah, while it did take Psychobos much less time to create the Nemetrix, he created it using blueprints from the Omnitrix while Azmuth did it from scratch. If Psychobos were to make it that way it would probably take him way longer than Azmuth
15:41 Oh my God, that synched so well XD
10:52 I mean, you did do a Kevin’s car counter, which is pretty much the same joke. I say just lump it all under “Ben 10 Destruction” or “Reckless Wrecks”, a counter for every time Ben just recklessly destroys stuff for the sake of a gag
I'll never understand why some of the executives and even some of the crew members reject the loss of Feedback being the reason why Ben took off the omnitrix.
You can't say it doesn't work as a narrative becuase Ben had a close attachment to Feedback, he loved using it and seeing him losing Feedback, blaming himself probably to the point where he wanted to take some time off and just want to try enjoying being normal. Hence why he decided to remove the omnitrix. This is also a very common trope for characters who gave up the thing they love due to a traumatic event.
You also can't say it contradicts anything previously cause the only thing we got from Alien force was Gwen saying how hard it was removing the omnitrix.
Idk, i don't get why since it seem like this was naturally gonna fit as the reason why Ben took off the omnitrix and i believe DJW was on board with this idea but I to me I'll always say the loss of Feedback is what made Ben took off the omnitrix.
No actually DJW was one of the ones who hated the idea and were glad the executives vetoed it.
My theory for Ben's addiction to Feedback is because of absorbing electricity gives him a rush/boost similar to how kid Kevin whenever he absorbs power/electricity, which doesn't beat the allegations about the parallels.
9:48 Me as heck: "Why don't you tell us why u like Swampfire" 😭
I think Azmuth calling him Feedback in the present as opposed to Conductoid DNA in the flashback is to show a change in Azmuth/show him understanding that The Feedback Incident had a genuine emotional impact on Ben and he wanted to treat that past trauma with proper respect by using the transformations name and not the category of DNA.
30:03 Malware is at least Planetary level confirmed 😂
To be specific it’s a moon but they way he did it I believe people did the math or wat ever and said it can be all the way up to dwarf star level GBE amount witch is what I believe is the standard used for comparing feats of destroying celestial bodies
I think it’d have been really cool if in Ben 10,000 Returns, when Ben Prime gets all his alien forms back, he asks something like “even-“ and then Ultimate Ben cuts him off and says something like “not him, there are some things even I can’t do”. Of course, Feedback wasn’t conceptualized back then, but it’s fun to think about.
When Feedback died I was heartbroken cause I was basically the same age as Ben so usually felt the same feelings he did and Feedback's death hurt
These breakdowns are really coming in one after another, huh! Thats very nice, it really brings joy to these mundane days.
One thing I was thinking was that Malware was corrupting Ben's aliens,so he wouldn't be able to use them.Kind of like a corrupted file.Which gives him only one alien to use that his family told him not to:Feedback.
27:41 probably a fale save so ben won't die
26:18
I've started thinking of this scene as malware detransformed Ben but had feedback's DNA pulled out of the Omnitrix. The DNA was then shown physically as feedback's body but he wasn't actually holding feedback, instead his arm kinda formed into feedback's body, and then he disintegrated what he was holding (feedback's DNA) instead of absorbing it. Maybe because absorbing it the way he can absorb tech and weaponry isn't something he can do since he's a Galvanic Mechamorph.
However, the reason it looks like he's actually holding feedback is because the creators wanted to do something like Demon Slayer does, where the swordsmen aren't actually emitting fire, lightning, etc, but all that is shown so we get a better, more dramatic sense of what's happening.
I have a personal theory that the reason why Malware was able to take feedback was because of Ben's repetitive use of feedback, like the continuous use or something created an opening in Ben's DNA or the Omnitrix that Malware took advantage.
That's a cool theory!
This is what I thought happened.
"What comes around, goes around." - Feedback's Famous Last Words moment.
21:57 I feel like the Ultimates are more appropriate for an allegory for drugs as much like in real life Ben knew he shouldn’t use them unless he had to and he ends up using them like additional aliens than anything more
Whovian over here. I never actually wrote it, but I plotted out a Doctor Who/Ben 10 crossover fanfic when I was in high school or university. It involved the Daleks capturing Ben and using a similar plot Vilgax did at the end of Alien Force, where they use the Ultimatrix to turn ben into an Ultimate Dalek and use that template to create a whole army of them. I don't remember many details about it apart from that, other than putting in a running gag where Ben keeps trying to subtly scan the Doctor so he can turn into a Time Lord, only for the Doctor to erase the transformation with his sonic screwdriver every time before Ben could use it.
(I think the Weeping Angels were involved too somehow?)
"When trouble's taking place, just shoot it with some Mace" 😂
I think the main reason feedback never came back wasnt usable despite using different omnitrixs is that the dna was present in the new omnitrixs, but bens trauma was the lock azmuth was refering to. So when he got the new omnitrixs the only thing keeping ben from using feedback again was his own trauma of feedbacks death and when the trauma gets resolved he unlocks it again.
The way I like to explain the fact that aliens like Feedback and Way big die but Ben survives despite being basically the same individual is that the Omnitrix releases the gennotype of that alien to make it take the damage instead of Ben (similar to how the ultimate aliens got sentient and were released from the ultimatrix or how Ben had to collect the aliens that went missing after he tried to get the master control causing Kevin to mutate or how ghostfreak got out of the Omnitrix in the original series). There are many instances of the Omnitrix literally creating aliens that work as a separate entity from Ben. So the failsafe just makes the alien real to protect Ben from any harm.
And when it comes to his obsession with Feedback I think that the aliens in the show (or the life forms in general) that absorb/use energy (like electricity) always go crazy when they get too much and turn into jerks (like what happened to Kevin) and the fact that electricity/energy absorbsion causes addiction and affect personality could be further proven with examples like the personalities of the two Andromeda five members that use energy as well (both of them were portrayed as jerks when they first appeared)..
I think Malware basically corrupted the file. Way Big and Swampfire "died," but Feedback got corrupted. Or maybe Malware damaged like, the "slot" the DNA is supposed to be stored in. And I think Azmuth chose not to restore the DNA as a result of how Ben had been using him. I doubt there was no way he could've.
The pulling Ben out of Feedback I think was just Ben detransforming but the body of Feedback remained. Same with UA where Way Big and Swampfire died, and Ben detransformed, but their bodies lingered
Also, I think what they meant by his ability to control other forms is that Ben essentially has to have muscle memory for how to use his aliens, at least during OS, and using one too much could lead him to forgetting how to use the others. Like if you play a couple different games, you kinda have the muscle memory for all of them, but if you play one for weeks straight you might lose that muscle memory you'd built for the others
I think Malware absorbed the alien-part of Ben and kept it plugged in as he moved Ben out of the way, then converting it into pure red energy
this was so cool when i watched it for the first time, when ben losed feedback and when ben accepts his younger self stiol give me goosebumbs to this day, show down part 1 and 2 are still some of the best ben 10 episodes ever made, also a packmar and balman counter would be really cool, maybe it could be called the Tennysonnnn counter
I think the issue with the Nemetrix is that the interactions are already played out, on top of future engagements being predictable.
Ben doesnt have the ability to gain the advantage, because Zed always turns into the exact counter. And its not like Ben can work his way around them like Superman fighting Metallo; its just Ben losing immediately or needing to switch.
I think having Khyber use more unorthodox predator choices because he can visualize certain predators defeating aliens from different ecosystems, and Ben maybe doing the same would make it way more fun; tons of experimentation can be done with how these beings can interact, like how would Heatblast react to a Muciloid? Would HypnoTick’s abilities work on Wildmutt? Stuff like that
14:33 Is it? You'd think teleporting in and out would be basically blocked by same thing
Since both the counts for car repairs and Rath rageouts barely increases since the main series those gags were introduced in has ended it would make sense to add 1 or 2 new counters specifically for what standout gags this series gave us. Both the melman and packmar counters would be perfect for this series as well as a rook counter for him going "I do not know what that means"
I swear every season ends Kuro moves house 😂
And he didn't explain it in this video.
Absolutely and this time without explanation.
20:00 correct me if I am wrong, but I think in Predators and Prey part 2, Kyber did have a different sounding whistle when ordering Zed as Tyrannopede to kill Ben as Humungosaur. It was more high pitched and aggressive sounding.
20:20 Zed being dog like also gives the possibility that she can hear the true difference between the pitches, but to us maybe it sounds the same?
I feel like what happens to the aliens is the omnitrix failsafe gets activated (because in this instance ripping the omnitrix out of ben when he is an alien would technically kill ben and when Eon does the time thingy, he is basically killing ben) it creates a shield around ben, the shield being the alien bodies themselves.
I feel that the overdependence on Feedback affecting Ben's control of other aliens can be paralleled with video games.
Like all having different controls and whatnot, similar to aliens with their powers, and when you play too much of one game, your reflexive actions get used to those. Like I play Fortnite, but whenever I take a break from it and finish another game, like Hades or Assassin's Creed, the shift back to Fortnite controls takes time to settle in.
So, the same logic can be applied here, and can have dangerous consequences if Ben mistransforms and his reflexive actions aren't on par, or maybe that he chooses Feedback at the wrong time, or whatnot
The answer to why it's every watch is Primus, why he can't transform, another easy solution, malware didn't destroy feedback, they corrupted him
I would opt for a Bauman and Pakmar counter because even though Albedo will go ultimate later on, it's only a few times, with even Hero Time getting more usage as we even saw in this episode. Hereby the Ultimate counter is ultimately done and we could almost sub it in with a new one.
I always head cannoned that the reason Ben loved using Feedback so much was because on a subconscious level it made him feel like an Anodite, even if he didn't know it at the time. It tapped into a part of him that made him feel limitless and powerful. It made him feel like he was finally home in an alien body. Feedback was the one alien that Ben felt like he was being true to himself.
I think it's a lot simpler then people are bringing it up to be, Ben becomes overly reliant on Feedback he may find he chose Feedback for the wrong situation or the way he uses other alien will become worse since he's using them less and less so doesn't have the muscle memory to use them right.
How i like to think of it is when Malware tore ben out of feedback (or even when Eon turned Waybig and Swampfire to dust) the omnitrix did something similar to what it did when ben held the big bang. And that feedback could've been the original body and the ben that got torn out was a remade body the Omnitrix created. Assuming it had the failsafe ever since the prototype
My theory is that Feedback requires a large amount of dexterity compared to other transformation from around the same time. If we look at all of the aliens Ben unlocked in the OG series we can see that they're all mostly humanoid and you can likely imagine how they would move based on our own anatomy. We think before we act (for the most part) so it would be easy to imagine the premeditated movements Ben makes in his head compared to a regular person. By comparison, Feedback has 3 extra appendages alongside the ability to absorb and fire electricity. Whereas all the other transformations have 1-2 extra appendages or an ability that likely requires a moderate amount of concentration. I theorize that Feedback takes more concentration compared to the other aliens and would likely cause some habits to appear should he transform into any other alien. At the end of the day, Ben is still human and likely still functions w/ a purely human brain inside the alien body and humans have a tendency to make several unconscious habitual movements no matter how minor they seem.
Think of it like this, if you suddenly grew a tail but lost it after a year, you would still likely move in certain ways that were caused by you having that tail. And this point it almost feels like I'm explaining phantom limb syndrome but I think the idea should be clear. Ben overusing Feedback likely has mental side effects for other alien transformations since it's still Ben brain inside that big ol' alien body
I feel like what Azmuth and Grandpa Max were saying isn't as much that using any one alien too much has an effect on Ben through the Omnitrix, but that he's mentally boxing himself in. By constantly spamming one thing, he loses the flexibility in his mindset and makes worse decisions as a result. It's like learning a new move in a video game and using it every chance you get regardless of whether it's good for the situation.
Feedback's powers might give a similar effect to Kevin's energy absorption powers (once you start you get addicted and can't stop) and that's why Ben got so addicted to using feedback. Dude was fucking around in a junkyard as feedback, looking for car batteries to drain. I know Ben fucked around with his aliens a lot as a kid but even he said feedback just felt different
I think it would have been cool if we seen Khyber train with Zed's Nemetrix transformations. But my cope for that is he doesn't care about her beyond her hunting capabilities, which he DOESN'T care about her, can't even bother to realize she's female. So that's...enough.
I dunno, kinda underwhelming to just have her play Cat and Mouse with Ben each time.
14:08 Isn't it weird that Galvans apperently never made any doom preparations incase something or someone revives their predator? Feels weird that Azmuth is running away like that and not using some security protocol
I get that it's extinct but cmon, it's Azmuth, he should've prepped better xd
I dont think Feedback is an allegory to addiction to drugs specifically, but more akin to addiction/compulsion as a whole. You can take something that is actually benefitial to you and overuse it so much that it can start to become detrimental, even if its not a chemical of sort. I think what the show is trying to tell is to have temperance and self control on the things that we indulge in.