As someone who works in this field, measuring chip superiority purely by looking at transistor counts and flop/s is a naive approach that will lead to wildly inaccurate conclusions. Scaling memory bandwidth to keep your compute fed with data is a far trickier problem these days than simply stamping out more compute logic and declaring you have a higher theoretical flop/s than your competition. Also, one of the most important factors not mentioned is the compiler/software support for your DSA. It is easy to hand craft code that will boast impressive benchmark performance numbers. However, the real secret sauce is having a robust compiler that can efficiently map general workloads to your DSA. It is for this reason most AI chip start ups will fail, not because of inadequacies in their hardware's architecture.
The point is it doesn't have to be as good. The more question is can it be a substitute/work-around to the American Lead Sanction. And the larger questions can China have substitutes/work-arounds to all American Lead Sanction, If it can we are seriously screwed!
@@bobcharles7716 I mean they will eventually, and nobody is under the illusion they won’t. However this is not it, and it will take a long the to steal the IP and recreate these technologies domestically. The idea is that by that point china will already be weakened to the point where they can no longer challenge the US for tech supremacy.
China doesn't have to beat the US pound for pound (or in this case, nm for nm / flop for flop). It just needs to be good enough to overcome US sanctions (which it is doing, at least so far).
EUV lithography is crazy, the skill and precision of it, to create a working component down to 3nm, imagine saying that to someone 100 or even 50 years ago and considering a red blood sell is about 7000nm and a strand of DNA is about 2.5nm
The whole nm thing is bunch of marketing fluff since below 90nm, if one actually measured a transistor on an electron microscope, they wouldn't be able to pinpoint any component of the transistor being 3nm.
@@Uruz7Laevatein ASML actual bought most of their patents (including the most critical ones) from Taiwan after Canon refused to buy them resulted ASML (a 3 trailer parking lot startup) with dominant market position, namely *the immersive EUV (which is currently most advanced right now and ASML's main product)*
The amazing fact is that they can do it consistently across millions of transistors. Making one, incredibly hard for sure, but doable and they could discard failures. Making billion transistors with nearly no defects.... It's magic.
And without a Dutch/German machine, AMSL, no one would be able to make these advanced chips, that’s the reason why no one will get really far without working together.
@@zunriya there is no patent control over the hole AMSL and without the German Zeiss mirror is nothing working anyway. By the way, the patent you could mean expires in 2027, just four years left ;)
@@zunriya There absolutely not „just“ system integrator, if it would be „just“ , everybody could and would do it. But its AMSL with is doing it. As i said in my first comment, no one will get really far without working together ;) But what is the point you want to make ?
Nvidia had already introduced h100 gpu on March last year, which is built on tsmc's 4nm node. Nvidia a100 was introduced in may 2020 so it is more than 2 years old.
@@johnsmith1953x why are you taking prototypes and engineering samples into account? By this logic nvidia H100 was already in risk manufacturing in Q2 2021.
When I was a digital design engineer for Qualcomm ASIC division I was doing physical design using TSMC .09 micron design rules. Wow, how times have changed.
You must have been in industry a long time ago. It's been almost 20 years since I've heard a process being measured in microns, not since 0.13u. They switched to using nm, 90nm.
*This chinese, tainwanese and american walk into a bar, the chinese guy says to the taiwanese, "we are going to take your land man" the taiwanese guy replies "oh yeah, over my dead FAB you are" and the American intervenes looking squarely at the chinese and professes "just because you can't make your own semi conductors does not mean you need to have a 'chip' on your shoulder"*
@@robertmichael6943 *USA made sure china either opened up and liberalized or perish by "Capitalism with USA Characteristics"* Inflation and 2023 global recession will make the C P C feel the wrath of their own BS
It’s not just chips, it’s the numerical computing. Nvidia has Cuda and everybody uses Cuda. No open source framework has good support to any alternatives.
if a government agency (NSA or ccp's MSS) need a system, its not hard to imagine or uncommon that a custom solution is designed to efficiently meet their needs. instead of using a public one size fit all system.
If they have to use those chips due to sanctions then they will develop the tools. It makes no economic sense for anyone to rival CUDA today, but if you put artificial barriers they will throw money at it.
It depends on the incentive and cost, CUDA is used because it's the easiest option for AI/ML for hobbyist/researchers. But if an government-backed-entity needs something they will fund support for it.
US sanctions actually has been great for China, forcing all the large companies to buy more expensive locally made chips and spend money on developing software for them. Sales been increasing every month, give the industry much needed funding.
@@benkem7584 US no steal? Read US early history of how it stole textile technology from Britain to advance its own textile industry in New England and the South.
I think its worth mentioning the operator support for chips. I am not am expert at the filed of AI nor chip design, but I think it is important for the hardware to support the software so that it can be use by the framework of choice. Besides the operator support, I think GPU serves a function more important than AI - parallelizable scientific computation. It is an important tool for modeling, prediction and analysis of large data.
You are correct. All these chips being discussed are in fact hardware that support parallel scientific computation. GPUs were used incidentally some decades back by writing code that can be run on GPUs, now the hardware are AI specific and they are more AI specific than the GPUS of yesteryears.
If that was the case competition against NVIDIA's dominance would have surfaced long ago and from America or Europe not China! If you cannot beat them with intellect go for good old trade sanctions, that is disgusting!
@@baoquoc3710 20 years ago everybody said the same about the Chinese space program, 10 years ago everybody laughed at Chinese car manufacturing, the fact some ppl still think a nation like China can be kept down in 2023 is borderline insane to me, just watch, China will dominate gpu market within a decade.
The article is about how Nvidia may have met their match. This means someone is getting close to Nvidia in terms of capabilities. A comparison between flagship chips would make sense.
@Yojimbo I'm American it's sad that humans can't compete against each other to better humanity as a whole and instead compete against political agenda and start wars but I know as a whole the situation is very complicated and humans aren't ready to asend to stage in evolution.
I'm sick and tired of duopoly of Nvidia and AMD with their sky high prices. I hope Biren produces better chips at lower prices, finally a worthy competitor. Besides, just 2 yrs ago China had zero high end semiconductor products. Their speed of development is astounding.
About a year ago China has already announced mass production of chip making equipment, 7nm and 5nm chips as well as a carbon based chip it also announced it's chip industry has entered warp speed. An year later they must have come really far as no one can buy those chips in mass quantities.
Then go buy Intel's. By some accounts, their cards are good enough when it comes to price-for-performance metrics, especially in some use cases. Although, if we just go by pure performance, they still lag behind the duo.
Side note: Human achieving is incredible. I read somewhere that humans now make more transistors AND cheaper than they make rice! To think that one of the heights of human technological achievements that is wildly complicated to make is made in more abundance and cheaper than rice... Absolutely insane.
When the US banned selling high class chips to China. China had a very good strategy 'how to be independent to produce 14-90nm chips' to close the US global huge market for 14-90nm chips. Whilst Chinese chip semiconductor experts to find the ways and solution to produce chip 7nm below.
We need China to break through this issue and bring an end to this single minded monopoly in the chip industry. We hope we get more independent players in the market for actual real competition and thus better choice so that capitalist countries like usa cannot use their dirty politics to unfairly subdue and reduce the potential collective human growth
They'll protect their monopoly from China. The lobbyists will make sure of it. They've already started years ago of rehashing similar propaganda they used against Japan in the 80s-90s.
Just because one country just does only research and patents new technology while other country bears the burden of production, polluting their environment, doesn't fit well in current era of partnerships. The patent should be equally be split between the research and manufacturing countries.
For decades, the dominating policy approach to chips in China was to import them rather than to make them in China. The late-comer status of Chinese chip knowhow & the immense cost of catching up we're the primary reasons. This approach dominated Chinese policy making until Trump initiating attack on Huawei. At which time, and rather belatedly, the Chinese policy makers realized there was no running away from ploughing immense sums into tech self sufficiency. Biden is one anecdotal success story but it remains to be seen how fast can the Chinese achieve genuine self sufficiency in chip technology. So the Chinese have Trump & Biden to thank for forcing a change in the policy direction from integrating in the global chip supply chains to carving out their own chip supply chains. I say good luck today them. Knowing full well the immense difficulty & still yet determined to overcome it in the midst of a whole-of-country effort by the US to suppress them certainly earns my respect for them.
china and the us will be independent because of the creation of their new chips, no matter who win the chip market capitalization as europê will be a usa cøløny forever and it will become a deindustrialized continent
That's not going to happen, China chip industry will be the biggest failure of China's endeavour on reaching independency, as times passes the gap will be even signifcantly larger than it is today, it's a bit more obvious now what will happen in future, all advanced economies including Europe will follow U.S, gradually China's economy will be departed from all these economies, and all the scientific/technological/industrial collaborations between the advanced world and China will reduce to it's lowest level, China will have a far worse situation than Soviet/Russia, it will be left with it's highest unemployment rate and poverty, in 2 or 3 decades it will be left decades behind in every technological or scientific field there it is, and like every other authoritarian regime in the history of mankind, they will spend all their money on suppressing opposition and keeping their military afloat, of course unless the CCP's regime falls by uprise of Chinese people which highly unlikely.
@@JigilJigilbut right now the news are going in opposite directions brother.chinese are thriving in semiconductor to even banning the components to us😂
The answer is "No" for any question in a title. A headline with a question mark at the end means that the story is tendentious or over-sold. It is often a scare story, or an attempt to elevate some run-of-the-mill piece of reporting into a national controversy and, preferably, a national panic. To a busy journalist hunting for real information a question mark means 'don't bother reading this bit'.
China imports $433 Billion USD worth of Chip's in 2021 is crazy ! It's huge. And in 2022 majority of this money are blocked by USA government and it's channel to China Chip R&D. Everyone know China can do many things on their own successfully & I'm believed that they can created Chip environment from A - Z by themselves plus China market with 1.4 Billion peoples is gigantic
I don't know if China as a nation will match someday or not, but I know people's salary in the Chip industry in China has increased 10x, the salary is getting close to match what it is in the US. I heard chip engineers in China are thinking of building a monument for Mr.Trump, for being the "father of the Chinese chip industry"
Semiconductor industry is heavily invested and with high costs, it needs huge market to get return for the investment. Technology is one thing, market is another. China imports about $300B chips per year. That is huge financial source for any semi manufactures to ignore. Look at the US now, Intel is going to cut 10% of its workforce, same as: Nvidia, Micron, ... It is like that bakeries ban their sales to the biggest bread buyers. The AI market itself is not big enough to consume all high end chips or the chips will be too expensive. Cell phone markets are the major area to consume most of the high end chips. Where is the biggest markets for cell phones?
Mate, the AI market is about to explode. There will be synthetic workers to replace human workers, in many aspects of work, very soon. The point is to cut off China from making it there first. At this time, the AI software in china is actually slightly better developed than in the western world. China might get to AGI first, and on western chips. This would be the biggest upset in the history of humanity. No wonder the west panics, and just at the right time.
US said China is 30 years behind last year.. now in 2023 US is getting worried... In 2-3 years China will be more advance... Problem is US has got rid of their tech talents by laying off employees with H1B visas.. so all the ones being laid off are going to China or India.
@@tluangasailo3663 yes but you know US is trying to prevent them from advancing? Doing well in life is hard while you are racially attacked because someone is jealous of you.
@@tluangasailo3663 that statement is generally true. Has it not gotten more advanced every year? The only country that has not gotten more advanced than last year are the ones at war.
Do you see the pattern? Amazon lost to Alibaba, ban Chinese shipping. Apple phone lost to Huawei phone, ban Chinese telecom. Facebook lost to TikTok, ban Chinese social media. Nvidia GPU lost to Biren, ban Chinese chip design, …
Because it's not well researched lol. Let's be real, if you could compete with Nvidia easily, they wouldn't have averaged 25% earnings per share growth over 10 years. Rofl.
Biren developed that chip with ALOT of help from US companies like Nvidia but I’m surprised TSMC would build 2 factories in Nevada which is going threw a drought and has a shortage of water. They need tons of water a day to even make those advanced chips and doing that in a desert with water shortage doesn’t make alot of sense.
You can bet that NVIDIA has long had the capability of producing such chips as the Chinese are now producing, but they have simply not done so to keep coming up with something SLIGHTLY better to make more money off of.
That was my thinking at the end of the video when they said Nvidia already announced a chip that is faster/ more powerful. They already had that in the release pipeline but just accelerated it because of the competition.
If this is true, a startup being able to reach the best tech Nvidia has to offer, it can only mean one thing. Nvidia/TSMC has technology ready for production that is double or maybe even triple the performance of current hardware but instead they release small incremental improvements over the years in order to maximize profits. It's ironic that Nvidia spends so much money advertising their supreme AI contribution, yet they make sure their hardware is not too fast for maximum profits. They are basically promising to take us to the future while making sure the future doesn't come too soon.
In Truth, USA start to falling behind in semi conductor. Hack maybe USA already falling behind from chine right now Who knows, what sure is, china semi conductor is doing great and improve fast
China is unstoppable. They have more STEM graduates than the US, UK and Germany put together. But more importantly, they have determination and resilience. Two things that the west has lost.
Silicon based chips are nearing its physical limitations. Time to switch to photonic and carbon based chips that are far more powerful than silicon based chips. China is currently working on mass production of photonic chips and carbon based chips. Once they succeed in mass production of these chips, they will dominate the whole chip making industry.
TSMC can create a subsidiary that is wholly owned out of Taiwan. That company would need to have a completely new name and license the tool used to make these chips from TSMC. Then this new company can have its own customers as this structure is similar to how franchises work. In that many of them source their produce from local suppliers and pay for the brand name, image, exclusive sauces, etc. This is great because this new company can effectively act as a living peace treaty between Taiwan and China (think of this as reinforcement on collaborative independence).
@@SanTheAwesumest of course it doesn't resolve anything. But the US politicians only know zero sum game, where if China prospers, in their mind it must means US has suffered. So they would rather hurt everyone just to keep China down.
@@snslifestyleorg China will not reclaim Taiwan. Moving factories back to the West would only strengthen jobs and lessen political unrest even as it cuts corporate profits.
I understand having the smallest transistors per silica chip is favorable for mobile computing like laptop and cell phone but does it matter on a fighter jet the size of a bus? Or a missile the length of a car?
Yes, it does, because of the speed of light. The speed of light limits how much information can travel between transistors inside a single chip. The chip size is physically limited by how clean the silicon crystal can get. Interconnects between chips are very expensive and much slower than on-chip routing. Hence, smaller transistors = more transistors in a chip, and a more capable chip. It makes a huge difference, this is why everyone is talking about it.
@@kongwee1978 Poland is developing an optic CPU. Spain is developing an optic CPU. So what? What matters is - who will sell meaningful quantities of the finished product.
Ummm, gaming has always been at the frontier of computing technology, especially GPUs. Enthusiast gaming PC builders have always been the target for Nvidia’s top line GPUs.
At this stage, the economic difference between us and china is on paper only, with Chinese goods being cheaper making their gross domestic product look smaller
America wants to maintain it's imperialistic amitions and dominance in the world - Washington hawks won't let another country challenge America's dominance.
China has not intention of making the world a better place, they want to rule the world, do what ever they want , take no responsibility and respond to no one, they want a world with no human rights and human value, just take a look at covid pandemic, they made the virus, millions of people died around the world, China didn't take any responsibility, and instead pointed their fingers at everyone else, then they have treated their own people like slave prisoners.
@Reverend Boaz And yet China supports the Taliban government no matter how much it oppresses half its population (woman)... but then again, China is big in oppressing people, isn't it?!?!?!?!?
China has successfully developed its own chips. U.S stopped selling high-end chips for China could not stop China Achievements. U.S Chips industry has lost billion dollars because of Sanctions and these companies will move to China as the Big Market .
I love topics on semiconductor industry.... Being from the same field i love exploring geopolitical implications of these technologies Next do a video on photonics based integrated circuits and how China is investing on this to break free from USA
This is vague. What do you mean by “China beginning to investing in photonics based integrated circuits”? And What makes that technology different from what dutch company ASML is manufacturing today?
Nah, China won't sacrifice all of its achievement over the years by reuniting Taiwan through war. It's not the same as Russia or Prussia in terms of thoughts and strategy.
3nm is just a name, what’s the transistor density? Is this still finfet based? EDA 2.0? Examples? What’s the name of the product for layout, verification, etc? Photoresist, using which chemistry and who is providing the light source?
China is just claim claim claim, with nothing of any consequences, its like they announced solving jet engine problems every 5 months of so but continue on struggling
ofc they are. look what they are trying to do. They literally spend 500 million dollars last year to spew Anti China propaganda. US knows that they are done for it and that china is rising more and more every single year. they cant handle it so they provoke china to go to war with them and destabilize the asian world.
given its sheer intelligence and engineering prowess iits only a matter of a few yearsbefore china will be producing highest quality chips at a third of the cost and twice as fast. forcing chna to become self sufficient wasa very dumb decision.
As an analog, why don’t you look at the Chinese auto industry and see what the highest quality and one third the cost results are? And keep in mind that the auto industry has been around for 100 years, and all of the manufacturing techniques has been well refined.
it is not usa vs china. it is not nvidia vs biren. it is chinese vs chinese. Chinese are the smartest race around and they are one of the major backbone in semiconductor. In the whole semiconductor ecosystem, they accounted close to 65% of the workforce
Can you provide 5 example of technologies that China has invented in the last 50 years that has *benefitted* mankind? That should be simple since "Chinese are the smartest race around" ... So, provide them if you can....
What do you expect from China. In 1968 when China is dirt poor and supposedly their people were going hungry China developed nuclear weapons thee cutting edge of technology and industrial capability at the time. When the US congress keep China out of the ISS another cutting edge of technology and industrial capability by law in 2013, China did their own and look who has the only domestic space station. I think the technical complication of Chips are overblown. It like Jake Sullivan saying to the Chinese look we have allies (Where allies are overblown), look at our Space Station. And the Chinese came back look at our space Space Station (we don't need allies).
It is many, many times easier to build a space station than a cutting edge chip fab. The reason most countries don't build space stations is that there is no money in it. These things are mostly for national prestige and they cost a lot of money with little return.
North Korea is also going hungry while developing nuclear weapons. Korea, Japan, Taiwan could probably all develop a nuclear weapon is a short time if they felt they needed to.
@@pjacobsen1000 But that is now not 50 years ago. Nuclear weapons were a lot more cutting edge 50 years ago, a lot more. 50 years from now they probably would be printing up chips that TSMC is making today with their school or home printers.
@@pjacobsen1000 1st let not confused just the chip fab as in what TSMC do with the entire supply chain in chips. China want the entire supply Chain in China. TSMC without the rest of the supply Chain not very useful. Let just face it China, the US and the world fell asleep at the wheel and do not have their own fab. TSMC is started by 2 Chinese who worked in TI (Texas Instruments) 20-30 years. You honestly think the other 1.4 billion other Chinese can not reproduce it in short order. Or the other thousands of x-TI employee can reproduce TSMC. It just take money, resource and time. Because reproducing a technology is only a matter of money, resource and time. As for the space station being a prestige project there are many prideful country in the world. Yet none can really say they could do it on their own right now. And one final note generally the reason something is prestigious is because it is difficult to achievement. it is not prestigious if it is easy to achieve, right. The Chinese clearly have a track record of achieving difficult things.
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Google's former CEO Eric Schmidt said that China already has the capacity to manufacture 7nm microchips and he even mentioned something about 5nm. Most U.S. advanced microchip companies are fabless, and the TSMC fab being built in the U.S. may resolve some of that but I have doubts. I think China has the momentum here. It seems shaky to rely on TSMC and Samsung.
You can believe that paid nonsense only if you don't know anything about chips. If I ask you how will China make a 7nm chips without EUV machines? Can I also ask how will China mass produce these 7nm chips when they can't even produce 14nm on mass?
@@ulikemyname6744 7nm chips can also be produced using DUV, and secondly, 14nm chips are already very common in China, and a large number of cars are using 14nm chips produced in China.
China may not keep up with the western world in semiconductor for now, but given the size of its population and how much they are investing in it, i think the gap may close in 5 or 10 years from now. just as how China managed to launch its own ppl to space decades after USA and build catapault carriers decades after USA. Eventually it will catch up. I think China in 2030 and 2035 will be quite different.
It’s like the automobile industry Can China compete in that industry? You can buy a car. And drive a car but to build on that is cheap and usable and affordable. Think Korea with Kia. Their cars are cheap and lower quality. And where are they considered in the marketplace How long have they been making cars in Korea This should be a lesson for China You just can’t steal and copy someone else’s technology anymore
You say this with the assumption that the West will sit still and wait for China to catch up with it. It is very easy to steal and copy which is essentially what the Chinese continue to do, but there will always be a place in this world for innovative products and people know and can differentiate what is good from what is not so good.
@@jkbzz "can differentiate what is good from what is not so good." May i know what is "good" is USA "good", what good has USA done for the world recently??? send weapons to Ukraine? was it for Ukraine? or was it benefiting USA;s arms companies, Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon..etc.. as their own countryman many of them are homeless, hungry and facing high food prices..they are sending billions to Ukraine.."to help them fight Russians"? USA's recent president hasnt done much good for the world. Yes ppl blame China ..Covid ..bad.. USA vaccine ..good.. but a certain Trump once also spread untruths about Covid, like "it will disappear in April" its nothing big deal. i think USA's Drone have also killed many "innocents" which they just apologise and say its a mistake.. like news of their drones killing a wedding party by mistake.. i dun think USA is any "good" also..
@@ruifenghuang1029 Making American / German designed -engineered autos. Nothing they make is an original Chineses made designed. Please name a major independent Chinese auto manufacturer that imports into the United States? This is also true in the the world of chip design/engineering and effects the Chines manufacturing- they can’t do it on their own by themselves
If China never had copied bios and other we would not have been where we are today. Internet wouldn't have evolved simply because most couldn't afford a PC
Imo you understated some key aspects. China isnt just "a bit behind" they are trailing the US by at least 10 years. China is under sanctions concerning the EUV machines. You didnt mention ASML at all. ASML is the only company that makes these machines. And they have a deal with the White House. If China wants to compete with the West then they basically have to build up the entire chip industry and everything surrounding it domestically. Its not just a question of money as well. This is among the highest tech on the planet. Its about know how and China straight up doesnt have that. Imo the entire China threat is a bit overhyped. China has quite a few domestic problems non of which are easy to solve. China is mostly alone on the international stage. Russia is shooting itself over Ukraine and no other big countries are on their side really.
Not mentioned a ton of software used to develop an manufacture comes from cadence US company an other software suppliers. These companies have been doing design an simulation for decades. As anyone if they could do anything without these tools they will say no.
Sciences behind eda tools are about 200 years old not rocket science. Years ago cadence bought a start up selling the fastest analog circuit simulator call ultrasim. Guess where was the HQ - Beijing. Just matter of time...
@@spvlinn9009 It's called buying a patent. China using software tools developed by US companies. Name me one major platform from China that provides circuit simulation and circuit design using VLSI tools.
@@netgeek3010 that is not fair comparison. Most of the vlsi stuff started from uc Berkeley around early 80s when China just came out of their dark period and they were not even in the game. If everyone starts developing tools at the same time, I will not bet my money on either side. Our work forces are nowhere as competitive as 80's given all the politics correctness BS in our education system today.
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As someone who works in this field, measuring chip superiority purely by looking at transistor counts and flop/s is a naive approach that will lead to wildly inaccurate conclusions. Scaling memory bandwidth to keep your compute fed with data is a far trickier problem these days than simply stamping out more compute logic and declaring you have a higher theoretical flop/s than your competition.
Also, one of the most important factors not mentioned is the compiler/software support for your DSA. It is easy to hand craft code that will boast impressive benchmark performance numbers. However, the real secret sauce is having a robust compiler that can efficiently map general workloads to your DSA. It is for this reason most AI chip start ups will fail, not because of inadequacies in their hardware's architecture.
Compiler support is one reason the x86 architure has stayed around for so long.
The point is it doesn't have to be as good. The more question is can it be a substitute/work-around to the American Lead Sanction. And the larger questions can China have substitutes/work-arounds to all American Lead Sanction, If it can we are seriously screwed!
@@bobcharles7716 I mean they will eventually, and nobody is under the illusion they won’t. However this is not it, and it will take a long the to steal the IP and recreate these technologies domestically. The idea is that by that point china will already be weakened to the point where they can no longer challenge the US for tech supremacy.
China doesn't have to beat the US pound for pound (or in this case, nm for nm / flop for flop). It just needs to be good enough to overcome US sanctions (which it is doing, at least so far).
@@sleepyjoe4529 Hay that is kind like what I said. So great mines think alike.
If China start to deliver GPU chips that is equal or better than nvidia we will have real cheap graphic cards.
not if they get BANNED
Free market capitalism for thee but not for me.
heck, any company in the world would do us a favor for achieving that!
The world has been waiting so long for a replacement of the US chips. Now US monoploy game is over！
@@johntang4108🤡
EUV lithography is crazy, the skill and precision of it, to create a working component down to 3nm, imagine saying that to someone 100 or even 50 years ago and considering a red blood sell is about 7000nm and a strand of DNA is about 2.5nm
The whole nm thing is bunch of marketing fluff since below 90nm, if one actually measured a transistor on an electron microscope, they wouldn't be able to pinpoint any component of the transistor being 3nm.
@@Uruz7Laevatein fin width is 3nm
@@Uruz7Laevatein ASML actual bought most of their patents (including the most critical ones) from Taiwan after Canon refused to buy them resulted ASML (a 3 trailer parking lot startup) with dominant market position, namely *the immersive EUV (which is currently most advanced right now and ASML's main product)*
The amazing fact is that they can do it consistently across millions of transistors.
Making one, incredibly hard for sure, but doable and they could discard failures.
Making billion transistors with nearly no defects.... It's magic.
@@VoicesInDark alot of the procedures are done with automation via an algorithm so it's not to extraordinary.
And without a Dutch/German machine, AMSL, no one would be able to make these advanced chips, that’s the reason why no one will get really far without working together.
Asml controled by us patent on it so they cant sell it freely to any one
@@zunriya there is no patent control over the hole AMSL and without the German Zeiss mirror is nothing working anyway.
By the way, the patent you could mean expires in 2027, just four years left ;)
@@derbender9264 yet the US is still able to force amsl to ban the sale of their most advanced machines to China. Europeans are weak
@@derbender9264 yeah they just system integrator they didnt made everything them self like zeis cymer etc, asml depend on other vendors
@@zunriya There absolutely not „just“ system integrator, if it would be „just“ , everybody could and would do it.
But its AMSL with is doing it.
As i said in my first comment, no one will get really far without working together ;)
But what is the point you want to make ?
Nvidia had already introduced h100 gpu on March last year, which is built on tsmc's 4nm node.
Nvidia a100 was introduced in may 2020 so it is more than 2 years old.
The Biren BR100 is three years old dude.
@@johnsmith1953x No mate BR100 was launched in August last year.
@@fury6280 No it was NOT. Some of us had prototypes of it YEARS ago.
@@johnsmith1953x why are you taking prototypes and engineering samples into account?
By this logic nvidia H100 was already in risk manufacturing in Q2 2021.
Br100 is cheaper than Nvidia. It is just underated.
China doesn't want better chips but chips that can be commoditised to make people's lives easier and better. Period
and chips that don't make you fart all noc.
When I was a digital design engineer for Qualcomm ASIC division I was doing physical design using TSMC .09 micron design rules. Wow, how times have changed.
You must have been in industry a long time ago. It's been almost 20 years since I've heard a process being measured in microns, not since 0.13u. They switched to using nm, 90nm.
*This chinese, tainwanese and american walk into a bar, the chinese guy says to the taiwanese, "we are going to take your land man" the taiwanese guy replies "oh yeah, over my dead FAB you are" and the American intervenes looking squarely at the chinese and professes "just because you can't make your own semi conductors does not mean you need to have a 'chip' on your shoulder"*
@@alwanexus yes, my whole point.
@@vivafreedom4947 clever
@@robertmichael6943 *USA made sure china either opened up and liberalized or perish by "Capitalism with USA Characteristics"* Inflation and 2023 global recession will make the C P C feel the wrath of their own BS
It’s not just chips, it’s the numerical computing. Nvidia has Cuda and everybody uses Cuda. No open source framework has good support to any alternatives.
if a government agency (NSA or ccp's MSS) need a system, its not hard to imagine or uncommon that a custom solution is designed to efficiently meet their needs. instead of using a public one size fit all system.
If they have to use those chips due to sanctions then they will develop the tools. It makes no economic sense for anyone to rival CUDA today, but if you put artificial barriers they will throw money at it.
@@PD-co9gv ROCm lolz....how is it....can beat CUDA????
It depends on the incentive and cost, CUDA is used because it's the easiest option for AI/ML for hobbyist/researchers. But if an government-backed-entity needs something they will fund support for it.
@@mashirokobato5509 Yes, it can beat CUDA. The choice of CUDA is arbitrary.
US sanctions actually has been great for China, forcing all the large companies to buy more expensive locally made chips and spend money on developing software for them. Sales been increasing every month, give the industry much needed funding.
STEAL STEAL STEAL 😂
@@benkem7584 Steal the things the America doesn't have.
Ah yes, great for China to learn how to steal NVidia's IP more efficiently.
@@benkem7584 US no steal? Read US early history of how it stole textile technology from Britain to advance its own textile industry in New England and the South.
@@benkem7584 Yes! Anglos are known for stealing... know history😂😂
I think its worth mentioning the operator support for chips. I am not am expert at the filed of AI nor chip design, but I think it is important for the hardware to support the software so that it can be use by the framework of choice. Besides the operator support, I think GPU serves a function more important than AI - parallelizable scientific computation. It is an important tool for modeling, prediction and analysis of large data.
You are correct. All these chips being discussed are in fact hardware that support parallel scientific computation. GPUs were used incidentally some decades back by writing code that can be run on GPUs, now the hardware are AI specific and they are more AI specific than the GPUS of yesteryears.
btw AI workload mentioned is AI training workload which is far cry to the running workload which can be set up on FPGA or smth later
Wasn't the A100 replaced by Nvidia H100 announcement 9 months ago?
yeah lol
All of us in engineering know that design is the easiest part.
but that required experience, which is hard to achieve
as a designer i get what you meant, and sorry making your life hard =)
If design is easy, why no one else can excel silicon valley group of Nvidia, amd, Intel ,Qualcomm, Apple
If that was the case competition against NVIDIA's dominance would have surfaced long ago and from America or Europe not China!
If you cannot beat them with intellect go for good old trade sanctions, that is disgusting!
first step ****
Competition is a good thing. My last Nvidia graphic card cost me a fortune, if US companies retain hegemony in this field the costs will remain huge.
bruh, keep dreaming about China made gpus that will suck power even doing nothing
@@baoquoc3710 20 years ago everybody said the same about the Chinese space program, 10 years ago everybody laughed at Chinese car manufacturing, the fact some ppl still think a nation like China can be kept down in 2023 is borderline insane to me, just watch, China will dominate gpu market within a decade.
The H100, Nvidia's fastest chip, is probably the best one to compare to.
No because H100 cannot be sold in China
The article is about how Nvidia may have met their match. This means someone is getting close to Nvidia in terms of capabilities. A comparison between flagship chips would make sense.
Do you test the Biren, don't worry, China will be overtake Nvidia' just like Boeing and space station, 5G' U. S now have no laverage to China
@@tshirtnjeans4829 The A100 can't either so what's the difference??
@@Drone256 Nvidia got around it by duct taping components of A100 with some older parts
When there's competition in the tech industry... the consumer wins.
Well... not when you completely ban a product from being sold in your market.
Dishonest trade sanctions does the opposite!
Yes. Sure. Wish China can beat.
@Yojimbo I'm American it's sad that humans can't compete against each other to better humanity as a whole and instead compete against political agenda and start wars but I know as a whole the situation is very complicated and humans aren't ready to asend to stage in evolution.
The consumer doesn't matter once globalism falls apart and the world goes to war again...
I'm sick and tired of duopoly of Nvidia and AMD with their sky high prices. I hope Biren produces better chips at lower prices, finally a worthy competitor.
Besides, just 2 yrs ago China had zero high end semiconductor products. Their speed of development is astounding.
About a year ago China has already announced mass production of chip making equipment, 7nm and 5nm chips as well as a carbon based chip it also announced it's chip industry has entered warp speed. An year later they must have come really far as no one can buy those chips in mass quantities.
Well, the Chinese are GREAT at STEALING tech.
Then go buy Intel's. By some accounts, their cards are good enough when it comes to price-for-performance metrics, especially in some use cases. Although, if we just go by pure performance, they still lag behind the duo.
spuper duper indians are helping us
And US always did their strategy, sanctions and banned.
Side note: Human achieving is incredible.
I read somewhere that humans now make more transistors AND cheaper than they make rice!
To think that one of the heights of human technological achievements that is wildly complicated to make is made in more abundance and cheaper than rice...
Absolutely insane.
I wish China breakthrough this issue. This will be good for whole world and all people. Otherwise single monopoly is too bad for this market.
When the US banned selling high class chips to China. China had a very good strategy 'how to be independent to produce 14-90nm chips' to close the US global huge market for 14-90nm chips. Whilst Chinese chip semiconductor experts to find the ways and solution to produce chip 7nm below.
We need China to break through this issue and bring an end to this single minded monopoly in the chip industry. We hope we get more independent players in the market for actual real competition and thus better choice so that capitalist countries like usa cannot use their dirty politics to unfairly subdue and reduce the potential collective human growth
They'll protect their monopoly from China. The lobbyists will make sure of it. They've already started years ago of rehashing similar propaganda they used against Japan in the 80s-90s.
Yes. I wish China should do it. This will be good for whole world.
Are you aware TSMC had stopped made this chip for Biren since October 2022?
Just because one country just does only research and patents new technology while other country bears the burden of production, polluting their environment, doesn't fit well in current era of partnerships. The patent should be equally be split between the research and manufacturing countries.
China doesn't bear the burden of production. Taiwan isn't China. Both Intel and AMD built many fabs in the US and EU.
@@sammiller6631 Taiwan companies have fabs and factories in mainland China. Taiwan and China mainland are both very closely integrated than you think.
US... never even considered mutual partnerships. Selfish or spiteful?
For decades, the dominating policy approach to chips in China was to import them rather than to make them in China. The late-comer status of Chinese chip knowhow & the immense cost of catching up we're the primary reasons. This approach dominated Chinese policy making until Trump initiating attack on Huawei. At which time, and rather belatedly, the Chinese policy makers realized there was no running away from ploughing immense sums into tech self sufficiency. Biden is one anecdotal success story but it remains to be seen how fast can the Chinese achieve genuine self sufficiency in chip technology.
So the Chinese have Trump & Biden to thank for forcing a change in the policy direction from integrating in the global chip supply chains to carving out their own chip supply chains.
I say good luck today them. Knowing full well the immense difficulty & still yet determined to overcome it in the midst of a whole-of-country effort by the US to suppress them certainly earns my respect for them.
Chicoms are notorious for stealing tech.
we're switching toro chips now
china and the us will be independent because of the creation of their new chips, no matter who win the chip market capitalization as europê will be a usa cøløny forever and it will become a deindustrialized continent
The equipment to make the chips in fabs is ASML a European company.
That's not going to happen, China chip industry will be the biggest failure of China's endeavour on reaching independency, as times passes the gap will be even signifcantly larger than it is today, it's a bit more obvious now what will happen in future, all advanced economies including Europe will follow U.S, gradually China's economy will be departed from all these economies, and all the scientific/technological/industrial collaborations between the advanced world and China will reduce to it's lowest level, China will have a far worse situation than Soviet/Russia, it will be left with it's highest unemployment rate and poverty, in 2 or 3 decades it will be left decades behind in every technological or scientific field there it is, and like every other authoritarian regime in the history of mankind, they will spend all their money on suppressing opposition and keeping their military afloat, of course unless the CCP's regime falls by uprise of Chinese people which highly unlikely.
🤦🏻♂️, TSMC and co get their producing machinery from an European company
@@JigilJigil I agree, many companies have left and planned (apple) manufacturing infrastructure in India and other countries as we move forward.
@@JigilJigilbut right now the news are going in opposite directions brother.chinese are thriving in semiconductor to even banning the components to us😂
They both have 100 in the name so I'm pretty sure
100 is the most common name for any first generation chip design.
@@Deecon1332 you just didn't get the joke :|
The answer is "No" for any question in a title. A headline with a question mark at the end means that the story is tendentious or over-sold. It is often a scare story, or an attempt to elevate some run-of-the-mill piece of reporting into a national controversy and, preferably, a national panic. To a busy journalist hunting for real information a question mark means 'don't bother reading this bit'.
wion,cnn,vox,nbc,abc bbc,DW,we always tell truth,nothing but the truth,so help me cia diety
China imports $433 Billion USD worth of Chip's in 2021 is crazy ! It's huge. And in 2022 majority of this money are blocked by USA government and it's channel to China Chip R&D. Everyone know China can do many things on their own successfully & I'm believed that they can created Chip environment from A - Z by themselves plus China market with 1.4 Billion peoples is gigantic
our shrimp chips are galexy famous
I don't know if China as a nation will match someday or not, but I know people's salary in the Chip industry in China has increased 10x, the salary is getting close to match what it is in the US. I heard chip engineers in China are thinking of building a monument for Mr.Trump, for being the "father of the Chinese chip industry"
Semiconductor industry is heavily invested and with high costs, it needs huge market to get return for the investment. Technology is one thing, market is another. China imports about $300B chips per year. That is huge financial source for any semi manufactures to ignore. Look at the US now, Intel is going to cut 10% of its workforce, same as: Nvidia, Micron, ... It is like that bakeries ban their sales to the biggest bread buyers. The AI market itself is not big enough to consume all high end chips or the chips will be too expensive. Cell phone markets are the major area to consume most of the high end chips. Where is the biggest markets for cell phones?
Mate, the AI market is about to explode. There will be synthetic workers to replace human workers, in many aspects of work, very soon. The point is to cut off China from making it there first.
At this time, the AI software in china is actually slightly better developed than in the western world. China might get to AGI first, and on western chips. This would be the biggest upset in the history of humanity. No wonder the west panics, and just at the right time.
Excellent form China 👏👏👏
Hmmm... Toshiba in the 80s and Alstom France in the 90s. That tell us a lot about the US.
Huawei's industrial espionage from 2000 to today. That tells us a lot about China.
@@sammiller6631 proof?
evil is our motto
Comparing A100 and BR100 seems rather unfair. In terms of timeline, BR100 is a competitor for H100, not A100.
i hope china win this battle.
we want cheap GPU price ~
No need for that crypto mining is done
Processor chips can be describe like this: "A truck cannot outrun the speed of a Lamborghini." Larger size does not equate stronger processing power.
mass means more power: over 2,000 modules in f-22's asra radar!
take yor physic classes over bubba
Nvidia will release a newer model with 10 percentage improvement in performance and 50 percentage increase in price.
dude, this is data centers, not the whole graphics card industry that you want to care about price to performance 🙄
@@baoquoc3710 nvidia pisses on all of us industry and consumers.
600%>price
I want china flood the chip market, because intel, nvidia, etc too overprice and need more competition
A hurdle today, a success tomorrow for the East.
US said China is 30 years behind last year.. now in 2023 US is getting worried... In 2-3 years China will be more advance... Problem is US has got rid of their tech talents by laying off employees with H1B visas.. so all the ones being laid off are going to China or India.
They keep saying China will be more advanced within 3 years, since 2012
@@tluangasailo3663 yes but you know US is trying to prevent them from advancing? Doing well in life is hard while you are racially attacked because someone is jealous of you.
@@tluangasailo3663 that statement is generally true.
Has it not gotten more advanced every year?
The only country that has not gotten more advanced than last year are the ones at war.
@@j.c.4192 Ukraine's military has got more advanced than last year with the addition of HIMARS.
@@sammiller6631 All aid. Not by themselves.
Do you see the pattern?
Amazon lost to Alibaba, ban Chinese shipping. Apple phone lost to Huawei phone, ban Chinese telecom. Facebook lost to TikTok, ban Chinese social media. Nvidia GPU lost to Biren, ban Chinese chip design, …
What happened to the free market?
China never believed in free market and have destroyed the global free market with it's viciousness.
Never existed.
Yes. I am still looki g for it. US wont show it.
1000 tops is on fp 8 its depend how easy u apply and used its hardware efficiently, that we dont know how its performance matrix really are
making fast chips is one thing, getting software to take advantage of it is another...
Got the manufacturing node definition wrong.
Because it's not well researched lol. Let's be real, if you could compete with Nvidia easily, they wouldn't have averaged 25% earnings per share growth over 10 years. Rofl.
@@Tential1 Things move on. They once thought that about IBM. TSMC wont last forever either. Technology moves fast.
When I'm in the comment section, I become some kind of engineer myself.
Way to go China! 👌🏾
Biren developed that chip with ALOT of help from US companies like Nvidia but I’m surprised TSMC would build 2 factories in Nevada which is going threw a drought and has a shortage of water. They need tons of water a day to even make those advanced chips and doing that in a desert with water shortage doesn’t make alot of sense.
Easy, the US will invade Canada and take the water it needs.
why nvidia help a competitor like Biren and what kind of help are we talking here? how deep?
They are getting tax breaks from damned politicians
You can bet that NVIDIA has long had the capability of producing such chips as the Chinese are now producing, but they have simply not done so to keep coming up with something SLIGHTLY better to make more money off of.
That was my thinking at the end of the video when they said Nvidia already announced a chip that is faster/ more powerful. They already had that in the release pipeline but just accelerated it because of the competition.
ITS CALLED BUSINESS.
NVIDIA loves to Sandbag🤣🤣
@@letmelick Well AMD is welcome to release a better one.
Planned obsolescence in ECON.
ASML is the way to go imo...
uhm, no
If this is true, a startup being able to reach the best tech Nvidia has to offer, it can only mean one thing. Nvidia/TSMC has technology ready for production that is double or maybe even triple the performance of current hardware but instead they release small incremental improvements over the years in order to maximize profits. It's ironic that Nvidia spends so much money advertising their supreme AI contribution, yet they make sure their hardware is not too fast for maximum profits. They are basically promising to take us to the future while making sure the future doesn't come too soon.
In Truth, USA start to falling behind in semi conductor. Hack maybe USA already falling behind from chine right now
Who knows, what sure is, china semi conductor is doing great and improve fast
doesn't matter how fast that chip is, bet it still can't run "Star Citizen" over 50fps without the game crashing.
But Star Citizen is still in beta...after 12 years and a half Billion in funding.
@@sammiller6631 that game will be in beta or as I like to call it a tech demo when we are both collecting pensions.
China is unstoppable. They have more STEM graduates than the US, UK and Germany put together. But more importantly, they have determination and resilience. Two things that the west has lost.
Silicon based chips are nearing its physical limitations.
Time to switch to photonic and carbon based chips that are far more powerful than silicon based chips.
China is currently working on mass production of photonic chips and carbon based chips. Once they succeed in mass production of these chips, they will dominate the whole chip making industry.
Dude go back to billibilli. So many pinks in the comments making their country look bad, just look at your names.
If they succeed before america.
@@danielmarkkula3004 they will, just like 5G and quantum satellite....
I wouldn't trust my life to a made in China chip.
@@NonnofYobiznes lol do you know how many you use haha
Nvidia, Amd acquisition of ATi these companies were founded ethic Chinese in America. More like the battle between Chinese founded companies.
TSMC can create a subsidiary that is wholly owned out of Taiwan. That company would need to have a completely new name and license the tool used to make these chips from TSMC. Then this new company can have its own customers as this structure is similar to how franchises work. In that many of them source their produce from local suppliers and pay for the brand name, image, exclusive sauces, etc. This is great because this new company can effectively act as a living peace treaty between Taiwan and China (think of this as reinforcement on collaborative independence).
The point is to block China from getting access to the chips in general. It doesnt matter if u create new middle man companies.
@@rv8804 what’s that gonna solve? The world needs to work together and the Us needs to be okay with other world powers
Wrong. China will reclaim Taiwan in 2049 like it or not.
@@SanTheAwesumest of course it doesn't resolve anything. But the US politicians only know zero sum game, where if China prospers, in their mind it must means US has suffered. So they would rather hurt everyone just to keep China down.
@@snslifestyleorg China will not reclaim Taiwan. Moving factories back to the West would only strengthen jobs and lessen political unrest even as it cuts corporate profits.
I understand having the smallest transistors per silica chip is favorable for mobile computing like laptop and cell phone but does it matter on a fighter jet the size of a bus? Or a missile the length of a car?
Yes, it does, because of the speed of light.
The speed of light limits how much information can travel between transistors inside a single chip. The chip size is physically limited by how clean the silicon crystal can get. Interconnects between chips are very expensive and much slower than on-chip routing. Hence, smaller transistors = more transistors in a chip, and a more capable chip. It makes a huge difference, this is why everyone is talking about it.
@@JurekOK China is developing optic CPU.
@@kongwee1978 Poland is developing an optic CPU.
Spain is developing an optic CPU.
So what?
What matters is - who will sell meaningful quantities of the finished product.
Experience God of War Ragnarok on a 10 year old PS4 (28nm) and you will realize how silly this leading node chip obsession is.
Lol. These chips aren't being used to play some silly video games.
Ummm, gaming has always been at the frontier of computing technology, especially GPUs. Enthusiast gaming PC builders have always been the target for Nvidia’s top line GPUs.
@@lord_of_love_and_thunder Ummm, data center servers and supercomputers has always been at the frontier of computing technology, not gaming.
At this stage, the economic difference between us and china is on paper only, with Chinese goods being cheaper making their gross domestic product look smaller
US and China need to work together as partners to make a better world, not against each other.
America wants to maintain it's imperialistic amitions and dominance in the world - Washington hawks won't let another country challenge America's dominance.
China's view of the world is anything but peaceful.
China has not intention of making the world a better place, they want to rule the world, do what ever they want , take no responsibility and respond to no one, they want a world with no human rights and human value, just take a look at covid pandemic, they made the virus, millions of people died around the world, China didn't take any responsibility, and instead pointed their fingers at everyone else, then they have treated their own people like slave prisoners.
@Reverend Boaz And yet China supports the Taliban government no matter how much it oppresses half its population (woman)... but then again, China is big in oppressing people, isn't it?!?!?!?!?
@Reverend Boaz The UN human rights commission wanted to go to China to ask these questions, but China said no!!!!
China has successfully developed its own chips.
U.S stopped selling high-end chips for China could not stop China Achievements.
U.S Chips industry has lost billion dollars because of Sanctions and these companies will move to China as the Big Market .
Whatever you say, Wumao.
@@irisacchi !
You'll be jobless .
I'll take it .
🤫🤫🤫🤫🤫🤫
I love topics on semiconductor industry.... Being from the same field i love exploring geopolitical implications of these technologies
Next do a video on photonics based integrated circuits and how China is investing on this to break free from USA
You have a fetish for semiconductors?
yep, this is an extremely interesting topic and would love more content about it!
They actually made a video on that already.
@@therealdeal6659 where ? Is it?
This is vague. What do you mean by “China beginning to investing in photonics based integrated circuits”? And What makes that technology different from what dutch company ASML is manufacturing today?
us：“free market”
If only TSMC can make, it will only hasten Beijing's timeline to invade Taiwan. Things are gonna get messy I think.
Except TSMC can't make it alone so that's not going to get anywhere.
Nah, China won't sacrifice all of its achievement over the years by reuniting Taiwan through war. It's not the same as Russia or Prussia in terms of thoughts and strategy.
5:04 one atom thick??? Please go back to school and rethink this comment
You understand the #WALKINGTHEPLANCK 👌❤️🧲🌎 #PERIODICVIDEOS
back, it's 0.5 atom thick
M.F America doesn't play Fair in this game! cause he knew he'll lose!
Yes. I know it. Monopoly will collapse soon. That case you and me win.
mike pompao:we cheat,we steal,we lie
everybody is a gangster untill the latest H100 powered by the "Hopper" Architecture arrives
Huawei - Developing 3nm chip, EUV and 6g
Xinhuazhang - Developing most advance EDA 2.0
Kehua- Developing EUV photoresist
Hence future of chinese semiconductor is bright.
3nm is just a name, what’s the transistor density? Is this still finfet based? EDA 2.0? Examples? What’s the name of the product for layout, verification, etc? Photoresist, using which chemistry and who is providing the light source?
China is just claim claim claim, with nothing of any consequences, its like they announced solving jet engine problems every 5 months of so but continue on struggling
Yes. That would be consumers win like you and me.
Tsmc and Sansung watching all this: huuuum interesting let these kids play.
Joe Biren
😂
🤣🤣🤣
NVIDIA's chip is not a dedicated AI chip, it's only useful for training at best.
Looks like Sleepy Joe and Uncle Sam is so scared of China.
ofc they are. look what they are trying to do. They literally spend 500 million dollars last year to spew Anti China propaganda. US knows that they are done for it and that china is rising more and more every single year. they cant handle it so they provoke china to go to war with them and destabilize the asian world.
given its sheer intelligence and engineering prowess iits only a matter of a few yearsbefore china will be producing highest quality chips at a third of the cost and twice as fast. forcing chna to become self sufficient wasa very dumb decision.
The real question is: How many years is 'a few years'?
A few years? 10-20 years at least, and if that can actually happen, that would be fantastic news
As an analog, why don’t you look at the Chinese auto industry and see what the highest quality and one third the cost results are? And keep in mind that the auto industry has been around for 100 years, and all of the manufacturing techniques has been well refined.
@@pjacobsen1000 2-3.
@@siamcharm7904 You're very optimistic. Perhaps with magic, but that seems unlikely.
whats ticker does the Chinese company trade under?
it is not usa vs china. it is not nvidia vs biren. it is chinese vs chinese. Chinese are the smartest race around and they are one of the major backbone in semiconductor. In the whole semiconductor ecosystem, they accounted close to 65% of the workforce
Can you provide 5 example of technologies that China has invented in the last 50 years that has *benefitted* mankind? That should be simple since "Chinese are the smartest race around" ... So, provide them if you can....
@@covertpuppytwo3857 Covid 19.
This is your fantasy
meanwhile U.S. is sending all of its Chinese talents back to China and making China so much stronger lol
AHAHAHAH too bad for CCP. Soon all the chips are manufactured in America.
Faster chips…go faster..to drive everyone become craze faster! What a craze world!
What do you expect from China. In 1968 when China is dirt poor and supposedly their people were going hungry China developed nuclear weapons thee cutting edge of technology and industrial capability at the time. When the US congress keep China out of the ISS another cutting edge of technology and industrial capability by law in 2013, China did their own and look who has the only domestic space station. I think the technical complication of Chips are overblown. It like Jake Sullivan saying to the Chinese look we have allies (Where allies are overblown), look at our Space Station. And the Chinese came back look at our space Space Station (we don't need allies).
It is many, many times easier to build a space station than a cutting edge chip fab. The reason most countries don't build space stations is that there is no money in it. These things are mostly for national prestige and they cost a lot of money with little return.
North Korea is also going hungry while developing nuclear weapons. Korea, Japan, Taiwan could probably all develop a nuclear weapon is a short time if they felt they needed to.
@@pjacobsen1000 But that is now not 50 years ago. Nuclear weapons were a lot more cutting edge 50 years ago, a lot more. 50 years from now they probably would be printing up chips that TSMC is making today with their school or home printers.
@@bobcharles7716 Could be, nobody can say what the future will bring.
@@pjacobsen1000 1st let not confused just the chip fab as in what TSMC do with the entire supply chain in chips. China want the entire supply Chain in China. TSMC without the rest of the supply Chain not very useful. Let just face it China, the US and the world fell asleep at the wheel and do not have their own fab. TSMC is started by 2 Chinese who worked in TI (Texas Instruments) 20-30 years. You honestly think the other 1.4 billion other Chinese can not reproduce it in short order. Or the other thousands of x-TI employee can reproduce TSMC. It just take money, resource and time. Because reproducing a technology is only a matter of money, resource and time.
As for the space station being a prestige project there are many prideful country in the world. Yet none can really say they could do it on their own right now. And one final note generally the reason something is prestigious is because it is difficult to achievement. it is not prestigious if it is easy to achieve, right. The Chinese clearly have a track record of achieving difficult things.
You didn’t listen, he said more powerful than any other chip from China
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Whoever do the chip is not important. Only chip should made a lot and it should be cheap. And we need competition not prohibition of government.
Google's former CEO Eric Schmidt said that China already has the capacity to manufacture 7nm microchips and he even mentioned something about 5nm. Most U.S. advanced microchip companies are fabless, and the TSMC fab being built in the U.S. may resolve some of that but I have doubts. I think China has the momentum here. It seems shaky to rely on TSMC and Samsung.
You can believe that paid nonsense only if you don't know anything about chips. If I ask you how will China make a 7nm chips without EUV machines? Can I also ask how will China mass produce these 7nm chips when they can't even produce 14nm on mass?
@@ulikemyname6744 I don't know the technical details but I think SMIC calls it the N+2 process and it uses some kind of lithography machine.
They only have access to DUV litography. It is nowhete near as precise
@@ulikemyname6744 They using 3d stacking method to ram more transitor into 7nm chip without need to reduce size of transitor while using duv.
@@ulikemyname6744 7nm chips can also be produced using DUV, and secondly, 14nm chips are already very common in China, and a large number of cars are using 14nm chips produced in China.
American chip makers are overcharging consumers for a long time, it has to end sooner then later
Yes. Sure. We are waiting China make it
If China can make the chips cost 1/3 the price of USA chips then China will win...
China may not keep up with the western world in semiconductor for now, but given the size of its population and how much they are investing in it, i think the gap may close in 5 or 10 years from now. just as how China managed to launch its own ppl to space decades after USA and build catapault carriers decades after USA. Eventually it will catch up. I think China in 2030 and 2035 will be quite different.
It’s like the automobile industry
Can China compete in that industry?
You can buy a car. And drive a car but to build on that is cheap and usable and affordable.
Think Korea with Kia.
Their cars are cheap and lower quality. And where are they considered in the marketplace
How long have they been making cars in Korea
This should be a lesson for China
You just can’t steal and copy someone else’s technology anymore
You say this with the assumption that the West will sit still and wait for China to catch up with it.
It is very easy to steal and copy which is essentially what the Chinese continue to do, but there will always be a place in this world for innovative products and people know and can differentiate what is good from what is not so good.
@@jkbzz "can differentiate what is good from what is not so good." May i know what is "good" is USA "good", what good has USA done for the world recently??? send weapons to Ukraine? was it for Ukraine? or was it benefiting USA;s arms companies, Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon..etc.. as their own countryman many of them are homeless, hungry and facing high food prices..they are sending billions to Ukraine.."to help them fight Russians"? USA's recent president hasnt done much good for the world. Yes ppl blame China ..Covid ..bad.. USA vaccine ..good.. but a certain Trump once also spread untruths about Covid, like "it will disappear in April" its nothing big deal.
i think USA's Drone have also killed many "innocents" which they just apologise and say its a mistake.. like news of their drones killing a wedding party by mistake.. i dun think USA is any "good" also..
@@genefucarino702 let me burst your bubble a bit. China is now the second biggest car exporter.
@@ruifenghuang1029 Making American / German designed -engineered autos. Nothing they make is an original Chineses made designed.
Please name a major independent Chinese auto manufacturer that imports into the United States?
This is also true in the the world of chip design/engineering and effects the Chines manufacturing- they can’t do it on their own by themselves
No win without the advanced chip maker machines.
30 seconds in and wondering how much intellectual property theft played a role…
*yawn*
From kirren to birren and then what sirren are they nuts?
If China never had copied bios and other we would not have been where we are today. Internet wouldn't have evolved simply because most couldn't afford a PC
That is ridiculous.
lol
Pretty naive for WSJ and then not mentioning the sanctioning of major Chinese electronic manufacturers makes this just another piece of propaganda.
ofc it got literally Washington in its name. its american based Propaganda.
You know they just stole the tech
How does US leading in design and research when the Chinese make a 3X times faster Ai chip ?
Imo you understated some key aspects. China isnt just "a bit behind" they are trailing the US by at least 10 years. China is under sanctions concerning the EUV machines. You didnt mention ASML at all. ASML is the only company that makes these machines. And they have a deal with the White House. If China wants to compete with the West then they basically have to build up the entire chip industry and everything surrounding it domestically. Its not just a question of money as well. This is among the highest tech on the planet. Its about know how and China straight up doesnt have that. Imo the entire China threat is a bit overhyped. China has quite a few domestic problems non of which are easy to solve. China is mostly alone on the international stage. Russia is shooting itself over Ukraine and no other big countries are on their side really.
you meant China is beaten by many countries...it also means that US is not too great because it relies on many countries...
ok armchair expert.
So is this chip for real or not? And did Golf Jiang take it with him?
So finally, the copy is complete ..
Yawn.....
The answer a year later: absolutely not
Joe Biren!
Not mentioned a ton of software used to develop an manufacture comes from cadence US company an other software suppliers. These companies have been doing design an simulation for decades. As anyone if they could do anything without these tools they will say no.
Sciences behind eda tools are about 200 years old not rocket science. Years ago cadence bought a start up selling the fastest analog circuit simulator call ultrasim. Guess where was the HQ - Beijing. Just matter of time...
@@spvlinn9009 It's called buying a patent. China using software tools developed by US companies. Name me one major platform from China that provides circuit simulation and circuit design using VLSI tools.
@@spvlinn9009 Corporate espionage isn't rocket science either but Huawei keeps stealing.
@@sammiller6631 stealing from where? Us? How do they steal somehing we don't even fxxking have?
@@netgeek3010 that is not fair comparison. Most of the vlsi stuff started from uc Berkeley around early 80s when China just came out of their dark period and they were not even in the game. If everyone starts developing tools at the same time, I will not bet my money on either side. Our work forces are nowhere as competitive as 80's given all the politics correctness BS in our education system today.
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@daudazachamleanehubert9730 🙏🙏 exactly
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China made a gpu faster than NVidia's latest...
press X to doubt...