It's not only about aero gains it's also more ergonomic in my view (up to a certain point). When only applying a slight angle you get the benefits of a more natural wrist angle and slight aero gains without the downside of unreachable break leavers.
I agree! I have mine turned in slightly to match wrist angle and it's much more comfortable and that this is how they should be set up. Straight may look better because it's straight but matching your body makes more sense to me.
I wholeheartedly agree here. I started doing this in the last couple of years (nothing extreme but noticeable nonetheless) and the added comfort from the improved wrist angle is quite noticeable. I wouldn't go back.
It helps minimize ulnar deviation and also preserves a more natural feeling amount of wrist pronation. I’m racing on AeroCoach Ornix bars now, but am heavily considering going even narrower with the Worx alloy track bars.
Having been a roadie for over 3 decades, I wish I had angled my brake levers inward a long time ago. My wrists are much happier with the levers angled versus straight... although I only angle my levers a few degrees and not to the extreme. I'd like Shimano and SRAM to design levers with a slight angle but with the brake lever still reachable.
It could also mean that your wrist prefers a position that naturally fits the way your hand falls as well. I'm 6'4" with 40cm bars and slightly angled-in hoods. My wrists are very happy@@Andy-co6pn
@arhu74 reaching around the bars to the levers can cause hand issues. Moving levers to compensate for a bike that doesn't fit is a false economy. Decent aluminium bars can be had for reasonable money. Jint these new fangled 1 piece bar and stem unless you are the .01% that it actually suits
Another ban for safety they say as they still don’t do anything about the countless motorbikes along the race that cause more accidents than the good positions or puppy paws ever have.
DO TRY THIS AT HOME, not for the aero gains but for comfort and you don't have to go to the extreme. It's also free and easy to try, doesn't happens a lot in cycling.
I'm glad that UCI has no jurisdiction over my bike, since I've angled my hoods my numb hands are 100% gone and the reason why is simple; it now is a normal position to rest my hands on the cushions of my hand instead of in the middle where you'll find all the nerves. Only therefore the angled position is my normal position, besides that I find it more comfortable in general too.
As many have mentioned, angle them just slightly and it'll be much more comfortable. Speaking of reaching the levers in the drops, most (at least mid- and higher tier) levers released in the last ten years do have some reach adjustment. Just turn an allen key a few clicks and there you go.
I always had the STIs aligned straight forward - until a bike fitter I was at, turned them inwards ever so slightly, maybe 2 - 4 degree. My "head exploded". This was so much more comfortable. I immediately felt the improvement. Hand position and arm posture dramatically increased and I rode way more relaxed which helped tremendously during the longer rides. I can only recommend to play around a bit like this. Not too extrem and you'll probably like it. I also don't care about aero gains.....
Agree with literally everybody else. A slight inward angle is ergonomically superior. Plus, hoods angled to match the angle of your bars’ flare look pretty sweet.
I've turned my hood inwards for over a year now, never been happier! Initially I when I boought a used bike, the handlebar that came with it was 2cm wider than my other bike. It was too wide for me. So I started turning the hood inward and to my surprise....happy days! I didn't have to change handlebar and my hands were comfortable.
David, my understanding is that the UCI and handlebar manufacturers are more concerned with the structural implications of the shifters not being mounted where they are expected, than safety implications of posture. They are full expecting riders who like a turned in position for comfort to adopt moderately flared bars - the shifters are in line with the flare, so safe structurally, but turned in for comfort with respect to the rider, and as the shifters are in line with the flare, still ok to reach the levers from the drops.
Keeping the hands on the levers causes the elbows to move away from the chest and widen. It follows that by keeping the levers straight the wrists rotate outwards, and in the long run you feel tired. By internally tilting the levers the wrists take on a more natural position as well as having a more aerodynamic position.
I have a road bike with slightly turned in hoods, and I have a gravel bike with equally narrow bars that are flared. Flared bars feel much better to me than solely turning the hoods in, and while I think most people would probably benefit from a flared bar (having more aero narrow hoods position while keeping some wider stability in the drops + putting the hand in a more natural position), it's really up to personal preference.
The confort thing is similar to flared handlebar as the wrists are possibly in a more natural position. Then regarding safety; the levers are designed to rotate "uniformly" on the pivot pin. By putting the lever side way, the reaction of the squeeze is not a rotation, a shear action on the pivot is created so the lever should be less performant and may be break. While this is the theory, I don't believe this will be very significant but, some ergonomic vs performance test could be easily run.
Some of us mere mortals have been doing this for sometime. I suffer from carpal tunnel syndrome on one of my hands. It's very painful to shift; angling the hoods in makes it much easier and alleviates the pain. I can't afford to go electronic, so I've found that Campy mechanical takes much less force to shift than Shimano/SRAM. Lessons I've had to learn. the hard way..
I think the issue is that when the levers are angled at an extreme, reaching the brake lever from the drops becomes awkward as the lever gets angled outward away from the bars.
@@buster.keaton I thought about that. But David said it wasn't an issue for him. It might be for folks with smaller hands though. Horses for courses I guess. What struck me was the angling looked like it would shorten the effective width of the bar, making the steering a bit more twitchy. Then again, I'm an ex-mountain biker, so a 44cm bar seems narrow to me!
I mainly tilt them hoods in for better ergonomic and comfort. I have some mobility issue with one of the wrist and this small adjustment makes a huge improvement in comfort. I do have a gravel specific drop bar on another bike and don't like the rotated hoods as much as the flared drops create a different angle.
Watching this makes me miss British three- and four digit roads. The lush greenery, the scents, that one time I was racing a deer… More on topic, I have my hoods pointing slightly in on a slightly flared bar, it’s super comfy. Best I’ve had on an upright bike.
I've been doing that for years....just slightly angled in.....I do find that with gravel bars, it happens anyway.... UCI are nit picking again perhaps ?
maybe it would be good to do only small change into inside like 0.5-1 cm not as much as possible. I have 0.5 cm on every side and It is very comfortable for the hands and not "dangerous" as you did.
I think it's a ridiculous rule. My hoods have been turned in for almost 2 years & there's no compromise in being able to reach the brakes from any position where you can normally reach them on a drop bar bike. Someone in charge probably doesn't like the look.
When I recently was at a bike fitter, he actually angled my hoods somewhat in, as that gave me a more natural look on the bike. Not as extreme as you had in the video, but definitely some degrees.
The hoods on my gravel and all road bike our cant in slightly. I say slightly, not like the ridiculous position that you showed when you did the wind tunnel!! it does improve comfort and makes more ergonomic sense to me.
I must be the odd one out. I'm more comfortable with hoods set straight. Set inwards causes all sorts of discomfort. But then my acromion processes measure the same width of my handlebars, so my hands fall naturally onto the hoods.
The best way to do it is less extreme than you did, around 10degrees that way you get the comfor without it making the brake levers weird. I be been doing it for years long before I realized it was faster
I believe UCI will ban extreme angles. Emphasys on extreme, which I actually agree. As for us weekend warriors, there are no actual rules. I will continue to angle them ever so slightly, for confort.
The UCI needs to step back and let racers race. All of these constant rule changes makes everything more and more restrictive. At the end of the day if a position works on the bike for you, and you understand the risks, then give it your all. Every racer has the same opportunities to try different things that may work/not work, but at least give them the freedom to do so. Enjoy your content Dave, thank you.
I wouldn’t say they’re stupid. They trying to optimize any advantage they can or think they can. It’s part of racing. Sure, some of it is ridiculous but that’s their choice. They’re the racer as long as they’re not putting anyone else at risk, let them race.
The bars and levers aren’t designed to be mounted this way and the (David failed to mention) UCI are banning them on the grounds that it structurally compromises the handlebars - partly why we saw bars breaking in this years races. Love them or hate them, the UCI have a duty of care to the riders and I’d be amazed if you could come up with any meaningful reason why a bar on turned in levers stops anyone racing. As for the UCI were making everything more and more restrictive, they have recently opened up the rules to allow deeper tube shapes. If you were right, we’d still be riding bikes that look like they are from the 1970’s.
@@rob-c. if the components are not manufactured to be used this way, it is in my opinion the duty of each individual manufacturer to disclose that fact and not the uci's job to ban that in general. Components can definitely be designed to allow this sort of position, but a general ban will keep manufacturers from doing so. This is just keeping bikes from generally evolving in a way that can benefit everyone, regardless of their budget in order to promote incremental improvements on super expensive bikes. If the uci wants to ban something in this regard, they should just ban disobeyment of the manufacturers safety instructions.
i set shifters slightly inward on my cx bike, to make it more ergonomic, but the angle is pretty small and if i overdid it - it would make climbing more difficult
Agree that comfort is the key here and 42cm handlebars are are too wide for most people. This helps for proper bike fitting when you just don’t want to spend $500 is new handlebar
My gravel bike, Scott Addict Gravel 30, is set up with inward angled hoods and it's not only more ergonomic for me, but also comfortable. It looked funny at first after my fitter did some adjustments, but it did wonders for my comfort for long rides.
I've angled my brake lever hoods in slightly, and does seem to improve comfort but that's as much as I'd do as it does feel a bit strange! Not sure what the UCI are going to ban next??? Breathing excessively during racing? 😂😂😂 I do agree with them banning them ridiculous long socks though!!!
Good vid. Thank you Dave. What professional cyclists use doesn't mean it's best for us mere mortals. I do not find the aero gains to be remarkable with the hoods angled in in this manner, and it looks more of a fad than anything else. I don't like the looks of it either, so it's very personal at best. As long as you feel comfortable, happy, and in control of your bike, without compromising safety, do whatever rocks your boat. But I don't mind the idea of tweaking the hoods in by a few degrees as suggested and tried by some of us here, just to get a feel of the hand position - I'm a sucker for feeling comfortable when on the bike for hours and who knows, a little angling might feel better? 🤷🏼♂Just like what bike fitters do when they tweak positions incrementally to dial in our ride comfort and power. So far, with the hoods straight, all systems go perfectly and very comfortably.
Some people do things not because it's better but because some professionals is doing it. It's what works for them and should be profered on all. Like the super tuck is not even professional to do in the name of being aero.
CyclingNews published an article today that elaborated saying that it was handlebar manufacturers who were driving the engineering justification behind the ban, saying that their lightweight bars aren't designed for the rotated hoods position and it could lead to catastrophic bar failure in some cases. I'd expect that over the next few years manufacturers will revise their carbon layups and bar designs to allow a rotated hoods position without compromising strength and durability of the bars, and the UCI rule will become moot.
With the diminutive size of modern components I wonder if any of the manufacturers might design levers where the top of the hood is angled already. That way the brake lever is in the right angle, while still giving the comfort and aero gains.
I recently tried… and being honest the main gain was in confort, on the seat, and off seat I didn’t find any issues. About aero,😅I’m not fast with or without this new position.
UCI: 'Extreme inclination limits the braking capacity of the riders and constitutes a modification of the product beyond its intended use' How long until a groupset manufacturer creates some levers that are 'intended' to bend inwards as a workaround? What happens then?
Simple test, You need only relax and swing your hands up from the elbow, and see if they come up parallel or angled in. That should give you a pretty good idea where your natural shifter position ought to be.
I have my hoods angled in but not as extreme as you have in the video and not as the pros. I don't race anymore so I'm not worried about those minor watts gained, not even when I ride in groups, I do it for comfort on longer rides when I get in the tucked-in position dropping my elbows down. It doesn't affect my braking. It's more comfortable for my wrists. UCI are old fogies. David you should try them not so extreme, you might like it.
I think a lot of the people claiming increased comfort from angling the hoods in are probably riding handlebars too wide in the first place. After a bike fit recommendation I switched from 44cm to 40cm bars and instantly noticed increased comfort. In my experience most manufacturers spec bars too wide for the average cyclist in most frame sizes.
I just did century ride and adjust my STI slight inward was comfy for me. I didnt care aero gains. Im portant for me was very comfortable since you doing 100 mile. I recommend to any cyclist mess around find what comforts you. For me slight inward 😊
I have a 42cm wide handelbar, I tried it when the levers is straight I feel that my hands is so open wide and the control of the bike is literally trash lol, but then I did my levers inwards and it feels much much better, been riding at this position for around 8 months now, and had no issues!
Everybody says aero because your hands are narrower but nobody talks about your elbows. When your wrist/hands rotate inwards your elbows rotate out. That might be why it is only 3W savings. I tried it for a couple months and went back to my old school position.
I do it for comfort because naturally your hand like to grab things at an angle. The other reason is I prefer 360 handlebar (only found out after turning the lever) so it did the trick on my 380 bar after turning it in. Then my next bike had a 360 bar now, on my 360 I do position it straight
I find if you angle them in a not so aggressively inward angle is the best compromise for comfort without the handling, braking and hood climbing drawbacks
I started doing this to a small degree a year or so ago. One day I had a fall and cut my hand, no damage to the bike. I had to stop one of the guys in the group trying to wrench my levers straight as he thought they'd both twisted in the fall.
I’d disagree that the shifters are designed to be used in the standard position they have always been fitted that way through tradition (from non sti levers/downtube shifters) I tilted them inboard since I swapped from downtube to sti levers back when The first dura ace version came out for 9 speed 7700 , if you hold your had out you have a natural curve to you hand the pros have taken it to an extreme which is dangerous to a degree with the extreme angle.
maybe an additional information regarding the "flatter handposition". Flat is not good. e.g. your hand position on a typicall pc mouse is flat and that is not ergonomic. There are ergonomic mouses which are slight angled position of your upright handposition (like on a roadbike). its tiltet a few degrees. So conclusio: if you tilt your hoods in a moderate angle, i think there is the sweetspot in terms of comfort and "healthy". Thanks for your video and test!
Its seems it might feel more comfortable for people who run bars that are TOO narrow... not for me though. It looks gormless and is utterly pointless. Shimano's 12 speed hoods already have a nice ergonomic shape, so why ruin it by twisting wrists at a 30 degree angle - see how that works out after 5 hours on the bike...
If you relax your arms completely while standing, your hands will hang at a slight angle, not completely straight by your sides, so by bringing them straight you're twisting your wrists. I found turning shifters in a little bit is much more comfortable. Obviously, example in the video is way too extreme.
If the angle matches the bar as it did on the shallow gravel bars the reach issues disappears. Despite that, I am going to angle mine in a little for comfort due to watching this video.
One reason the UCI may be banning this set-up is it is being done on bars that are already extremely narrow. This could cause handling issues if your hands are only 20 cm apart on the hoods?
I've always rode with hoods angled in due a accident I had 15 years which seriously affected my tendons in my wrist with the hoods angled it's much more comfortable as a disabled rider.
I tried this just because it helped alleviate some discomfort in my wrist when on the hoods. Unfortunately, it pushed my elbows out and caused discomfort I'm my shoulders. Pretty sure the elbows out was thing was less aero!
I have gel pads on my hadlebars. I do not see much on them, but I like them as a recreational guy. More comfortable cycling is what I like getting the luxury ride.
The only truly safe handlebar is a flat bar. Being that angling your hoods rotates your hands closer to a flat position and doesn't inhibit your ability to reach your brake levers I’d argue it’s probably safer than upright levers.
I do find the angeled hoods do feel a lot better to me. Especially on the long rides. However, I have had two DI2 cables go bad from pinching and breaking right at the end of the cable by the port on the hood. On one ride I had to use a 4-foot cable as a quick fix but only needed about 6 inches, I ended up wrapping the extra around my computer mount and flopped around for 80+ miles that day. 🙂 I love electronic shifting but when it goes bad it's bad. I had to ride over 50 miles one time on a single smaller cog gear - before I knew about unplugging the rear for a few minutes to reboot - works most of the time when it's not a cable/battery issue 😞
By the way, I've also seen the comfort improve even if angling them in less, maybe about 20 degrees or less (haven't measured) It also saves the cables (I think).
I think the logical conclusion of people realizing that this is comfortable, combined with most recreational riders only using the tops, should result in a shift toward bullhorn handlebars previously only seen on fixed gears or townie bikes. Electronic shifting makes this change even easier with not having to worry about brifter lever design anymore. Not that I'm really a fan of that, but anyways. I say 'should' above, but i doubt it will happen anytime soon or at all. The road handlebar shape is just too linked to road cycling, hard to imagine the big brands marketing a regular road bike with bullhorns, or, even more radical, something like the Velo Orange Crazy Bar, despite how much it may make sense for modern riders.
I'd tried this experiment. Let your brake levers a bit loose and let your body find the natural position: the size of the hands, shoulders and arms will determine it. Then fix them in that position
You went for as far as they would go , half that amount angled will give you more comfort , some aero , easier to reach brakes and less negative affect on out of seat ... TRY it ... oh .. 3 watts on a tyre is seen as awesome !
I angled my levers, but not much. Its much comfortable, and I feel more aero but im not competing so its really matter for me. Its more comfortable, that the main thing
So many comments saying that this improves comfort; I will say that personally I don't find this comfortable at all, lengthens the reach, also to the levers themselves, and promotes a stiff, unprecise grip on the STIs. Obviously it's just an opinion. I keep my hoods straight, hell, maybe even slightly outwards angled.
Good question I think it's 5050. And I think it's coming because all the Accidents but I still think that has to do With the bikes getting lighter , The more of these carbon fiber bikes get lighter. The air flow around them. You have less control . I remember Accidents Back in the 80s. When we were riding steel bikes or heavier bikes. But not as many.
I tried it one day, but very moderately (maybe 2cm in on the end of the hood) and it is actually more comfortable for me, so it stayed. But I would never try this extreme angle eg. Ayuso does.
Another genius move by UCI, which will prevent exactly as many accidents as the supertuck ban did, i.e., none at all. But it is easier to impose arbitrary rules on riders and look like you care about safety, than to consider what is an actual danger for riders (downhill finishes, motorcycles...) and do something about it.
It's not about aero for me, never been. All about ergonomics. having straight shifters is forcing my hands into an unnatural position, whereas the angle is much more natural. I don't go to such an extreme angle as the exaggerated position in the video though, about halfway there.
Your lever position is not nearly as radical as many pros use -I doubt the UCI would ban it. Also, it would be easy for companies to revise/optimize their levers for this position, maybe incorporating a simple adjustment feature.
I have a 23 g7 madone slr 7 and bars on madone are narrow first ride i did 30 miles i notice the comfort on my hands had to get use to it. Now i love how it feels cant stop riding it
The new generation of shifters already come with a slight inward tilt there are only advantages. I never rode a bike or moto with default factory ergonomics. Every pro rider will be knocking their shifters inwards at the start line after the UCI inspection.
The main issue I've found (even though I still ride with hoods in) is that its harder to reach the break lever (especially with small hands) because you have to reach "around" the end of the lever in an arc rather than just straight and pull towards you.
With this ridiculous trend of super (way too) wide handlebars coming stock on bikes, turning in the hoods is a simple an free way to mitigate its downsides, rather than buying a new narrower handlebar. I like it. Not foe the aero gains, but for the comfort.
It's not only about aero gains it's also more ergonomic in my view (up to a certain point). When only applying a slight angle you get the benefits of a more natural wrist angle and slight aero gains without the downside of unreachable break leavers.
I agree! I have mine turned in slightly to match wrist angle and it's much more comfortable and that this is how they should be set up. Straight may look better because it's straight but matching your body makes more sense to me.
I wholeheartedly agree here. I started doing this in the last couple of years (nothing extreme but noticeable nonetheless) and the added comfort from the improved wrist angle is quite noticeable. I wouldn't go back.
Yeah, somewhere in the middle is the answer, more comfortable (for me) and slightly more aero, win win situation :).
It helps minimize ulnar deviation and also preserves a more natural feeling amount of wrist pronation. I’m racing on AeroCoach Ornix bars now, but am heavily considering going even narrower with the Worx alloy track bars.
And it looks dope ngl
Having been a roadie for over 3 decades, I wish I had angled my brake levers inward a long time ago. My wrists are much happier with the levers angled versus straight... although I only angle my levers a few degrees and not to the extreme. I'd like Shimano and SRAM to design levers with a slight angle but with the brake lever still reachable.
100% agree with all that @buster.keaton
If it relieves a wrist issue then it's a good indicator that your bars are too wide
It could also mean that your wrist prefers a position that naturally fits the way your hand falls as well. I'm 6'4" with 40cm bars and slightly angled-in hoods. My wrists are very happy@@Andy-co6pn
@@Andy-co6pnhandlebars can be expensive, turning in your hoods is free
@arhu74 reaching around the bars to the levers can cause hand issues. Moving levers to compensate for a bike that doesn't fit is a false economy. Decent aluminium bars can be had for reasonable money. Jint these new fangled 1 piece bar and stem unless you are the .01% that it actually suits
Another ban for safety they say as they still don’t do anything about the countless motorbikes along the race that cause more accidents than the good positions or puppy paws ever have.
Exactly and i road mc too .
Which motorbikes are you getting rid of?
Well don’t need as many surrounding the breakaway riders. One camera and one official. So two is sufficient. Not as many as they have. Use your brain.
@@p44doyle44 so no press, no security, no neutral service? Brain is working fine thanks 🤦♂️
Don’t need multiples of each. So yeah. Brains not working.
DO TRY THIS AT HOME, not for the aero gains but for comfort and you don't have to go to the extreme. It's also free and easy to try, doesn't happens a lot in cycling.
Very comfortable
Precisely why I did and have been doing it for a long time.
My wrists are very grateful.
Same here!
I'm glad that UCI has no jurisdiction over my bike, since I've angled my hoods my numb hands are 100% gone and the reason why is simple; it now is a normal position to rest my hands on the cushions of my hand instead of in the middle where you'll find all the nerves. Only therefore the angled position is my normal position, besides that I find it more comfortable in general too.
As many have mentioned, angle them just slightly and it'll be much more comfortable. Speaking of reaching the levers in the drops, most (at least mid- and higher tier) levers released in the last ten years do have some reach adjustment. Just turn an allen key a few clicks and there you go.
I always had the STIs aligned straight forward - until a bike fitter I was at, turned them inwards ever so slightly, maybe 2 - 4 degree. My "head exploded". This was so much more comfortable. I immediately felt the improvement. Hand position and arm posture dramatically increased and I rode way more relaxed which helped tremendously during the longer rides. I can only recommend to play around a bit like this. Not too extrem and you'll probably like it. I also don't care about aero gains.....
Agree with literally everybody else. A slight inward angle is ergonomically superior. Plus, hoods angled to match the angle of your bars’ flare look pretty sweet.
I've turned my hood inwards for over a year now, never been happier! Initially I when I boought a used bike, the handlebar that came with it was 2cm wider than my other bike. It was too wide for me. So I started turning the hood inward and to my surprise....happy days! I didn't have to change handlebar and my hands were comfortable.
David, my understanding is that the UCI and handlebar manufacturers are more concerned with the structural implications of the shifters not being mounted where they are expected, than safety implications of posture. They are full expecting riders who like a turned in position for comfort to adopt moderately flared bars - the shifters are in line with the flare, so safe structurally, but turned in for comfort with respect to the rider, and as the shifters are in line with the flare, still ok to reach the levers from the drops.
☝️
Keeping the hands on the levers causes the elbows to move away from the chest and widen. It follows that by keeping the levers straight the wrists rotate outwards, and in the long run you feel tired. By internally tilting the levers the wrists take on a more natural position as well as having a more aerodynamic position.
I have a road bike with slightly turned in hoods, and I have a gravel bike with equally narrow bars that are flared. Flared bars feel much better to me than solely turning the hoods in, and while I think most people would probably benefit from a flared bar (having more aero narrow hoods position while keeping some wider stability in the drops + putting the hand in a more natural position), it's really up to personal preference.
The confort thing is similar to flared handlebar as the wrists are possibly in a more natural position. Then regarding safety; the levers are designed to rotate "uniformly" on the pivot pin. By putting the lever side way, the reaction of the squeeze is not a rotation, a shear action on the pivot is created so the lever should be less performant and may be break. While this is the theory, I don't believe this will be very significant but, some ergonomic vs performance test could be easily run.
Some of us mere mortals have been doing this for sometime. I suffer from carpal tunnel syndrome on one of my hands. It's very painful to shift; angling the hoods in makes it much easier and alleviates the pain. I can't afford to go electronic, so I've found that Campy mechanical takes much less force to shift than Shimano/SRAM. Lessons I've had to learn. the hard way..
I can't see how angling the holds in could compromise safety any more than narrow bars, which are allowed.
I think the issue is that when the levers are angled at an extreme, reaching the brake lever from the drops becomes awkward as the lever gets angled outward away from the bars.
@@buster.keaton I thought about that. But David said it wasn't an issue for him. It might be for folks with smaller hands though. Horses for courses I guess.
What struck me was the angling looked like it would shorten the effective width of the bar, making the steering a bit more twitchy.
Then again, I'm an ex-mountain biker, so a 44cm bar seems narrow to me!
I mainly tilt them hoods in for better ergonomic and comfort. I have some mobility issue with one of the wrist and this small adjustment makes a huge improvement in comfort. I do have a gravel specific drop bar on another bike and don't like the rotated hoods as much as the flared drops create a different angle.
It's the potholes in the road and nutty motorists that worry me
In my opinion if the shifter bends a little bit i feel more comfortable and suit me more when i ride in normal position,
Watching this makes me miss British three- and four digit roads. The lush greenery, the scents, that one time I was racing a deer… More on topic, I have my hoods pointing slightly in on a slightly flared bar, it’s super comfy. Best I’ve had on an upright bike.
I've been doing that for years....just slightly angled in.....I do find that with gravel bars, it happens anyway....
UCI are nit picking again perhaps ?
maybe it would be good to do only small change into inside like 0.5-1 cm not as much as possible. I have 0.5 cm on every side and It is very comfortable for the hands and not "dangerous" as you did.
I turn mine in to get a more comfortable grip during long gravel races (200mi). It avoids ulnar nerve pain and hand numbing.
I think it's a ridiculous rule. My hoods have been turned in for almost 2 years & there's no compromise in being able to reach the brakes from any position where you can normally reach them on a drop bar bike. Someone in charge probably doesn't like the look.
When I recently was at a bike fitter, he actually angled my hoods somewhat in, as that gave me a more natural look on the bike. Not as extreme as you had in the video, but definitely some degrees.
I run mine angled in. But also i have slightly (4degrees) flares Handlebars. So it feels good in the drops and has the benefit of the comfort.
The hoods on my gravel and all road bike our cant in slightly.
I say slightly, not like the ridiculous position that you showed when you did the wind tunnel!! it does improve comfort and makes more ergonomic sense to me.
I must be the odd one out.
I'm more comfortable with hoods set straight.
Set inwards causes all sorts of discomfort.
But then my acromion processes measure the same width of my handlebars, so my hands fall naturally onto the hoods.
The best way to do it is less extreme than you did, around 10degrees that way you get the comfor without it making the brake levers weird. I be been doing it for years long before I realized it was faster
Great video. I tried this a few months ago and also ended up putting them back as it felt a bit strange when out of the saddle.
😅I've ridden with hoods bent in for 20 years - they were bent in after a crash but I found them more comfortable so set up like that.
I believe UCI will ban extreme angles. Emphasys on extreme, which I actually agree. As for us weekend warriors, there are no actual rules. I will continue to angle them ever so slightly, for confort.
The UCI needs to step back and let racers race. All of these constant rule changes makes everything more and more restrictive. At the end of the day if a position works on the bike for you, and you understand the risks, then give it your all. Every racer has the same opportunities to try different things that may work/not work, but at least give them the freedom to do so. Enjoy your content Dave, thank you.
Maybe if the riders stopped doing stupid things and just rode their bikes the UCI wouldn't have to step in.
I wouldn’t say they’re stupid. They trying to optimize any advantage they can or think they can. It’s part of racing. Sure, some of it is ridiculous but that’s their choice. They’re the racer as long as they’re not putting anyone else at risk, let them race.
The bars and levers aren’t designed to be mounted this way and the (David failed to mention) UCI are banning them on the grounds that it structurally compromises the handlebars - partly why we saw bars breaking in this years races.
Love them or hate them, the UCI have a duty of care to the riders and I’d be amazed if you could come up with any meaningful reason why a bar on turned in levers stops anyone racing.
As for the UCI were making everything more and more restrictive, they have recently opened up the rules to allow deeper tube shapes. If you were right, we’d still be riding bikes that look like they are from the 1970’s.
@@rob-c. if the components are not manufactured to be used this way, it is in my opinion the duty of each individual manufacturer to disclose that fact and not the uci's job to ban that in general. Components can definitely be designed to allow this sort of position, but a general ban will keep manufacturers from doing so.
This is just keeping bikes from generally evolving in a way that can benefit everyone, regardless of their budget in order to promote incremental improvements on super expensive bikes.
If the uci wants to ban something in this regard, they should just ban disobeyment of the manufacturers safety instructions.
@@galenkehlerdemocrat
i set shifters slightly inward on my cx bike, to make it more ergonomic, but the angle is pretty small and if i overdid it - it would make climbing more difficult
Agree that comfort is the key here and 42cm handlebars are are too wide for most people. This helps for proper bike fitting when you just don’t want to spend $500 is new handlebar
My gravel bike, Scott Addict Gravel 30, is set up with inward angled hoods and it's not only more ergonomic for me, but also comfortable. It looked funny at first after my fitter did some adjustments, but it did wonders for my comfort for long rides.
Mine are set up not as extreme as the ones on your SL8 and I believe it's the best, most comfy setup I ever had on my road bikes.
Tried it. Made my upper arms ache... Reverted back.. Comfort 👌
I've angled my brake lever hoods in slightly, and does seem to improve comfort but that's as much as I'd do as it does feel a bit strange! Not sure what the UCI are going to ban next??? Breathing excessively during racing? 😂😂😂 I do agree with them banning them ridiculous long socks though!!!
I do a slight angle in to mimick holding a steering wheel at the 10PM and 2 PM position
Good vid. Thank you Dave.
What professional cyclists use doesn't mean it's best for us mere mortals.
I do not find the aero gains to be remarkable with the hoods angled in in this manner,
and it looks more of a fad than anything else. I don't like the looks of it either, so it's
very personal at best.
As long as you feel comfortable, happy, and in control of your bike, without compromising
safety, do whatever rocks your boat. But I don't mind the idea of tweaking the hoods in
by a few degrees as suggested and tried by some of us here, just to get a feel of the hand position -
I'm a sucker for feeling comfortable when on the bike for hours and who knows, a little angling
might feel better? 🤷🏼♂Just like what bike fitters do when they tweak positions incrementally to
dial in our ride comfort and power.
So far, with the hoods straight, all systems go perfectly and very comfortably.
Some people do things not because it's better but because some professionals is doing it. It's what works for them and should be profered on all. Like the super tuck is not even professional to do in the name of being aero.
CyclingNews published an article today that elaborated saying that it was handlebar manufacturers who were driving the engineering justification behind the ban, saying that their lightweight bars aren't designed for the rotated hoods position and it could lead to catastrophic bar failure in some cases. I'd expect that over the next few years manufacturers will revise their carbon layups and bar designs to allow a rotated hoods position without compromising strength and durability of the bars, and the UCI rule will become moot.
Yes, this needs to be part of the discussion! Also, the article mentioned that the UCI ban was decided with representation from pro riders.
With the diminutive size of modern components I wonder if any of the manufacturers might design levers where the top of the hood is angled already. That way the brake lever is in the right angle, while still giving the comfort and aero gains.
I recently tried… and being honest the main gain was in confort, on the seat, and off seat I didn’t find any issues. About aero,😅I’m not fast with or without this new position.
UCI: 'Extreme inclination limits the braking capacity of the riders and constitutes a modification of the product beyond its intended use'
How long until a groupset manufacturer creates some levers that are 'intended' to bend inwards as a workaround? What happens then?
Needless is accurate… UCI concerned about rider safety, but sanctions races in unsafe conditions… Is that oxymoron for sale?
Simple test, You need only relax and swing your hands up from the elbow, and see if they come up parallel or angled in. That should give you a pretty good idea where your natural shifter position ought to be.
I have my hoods angled in but not as extreme as you have in the video and not as the pros. I don't race anymore so I'm not worried about those minor watts gained, not even when I ride in groups, I do it for comfort on longer rides when I get in the tucked-in position dropping my elbows down. It doesn't affect my braking. It's more comfortable for my wrists. UCI are old fogies. David you should try them not so extreme, you might like it.
I think a lot of the people claiming increased comfort from angling the hoods in are probably riding handlebars too wide in the first place. After a bike fit recommendation I switched from 44cm to 40cm bars and instantly noticed increased comfort. In my experience most manufacturers spec bars too wide for the average cyclist in most frame sizes.
Exactly right
I think this stems more from the fact that your palms, with your arms stetched out, naturally rests at an angle to vertical.
I just did century ride and adjust my STI slight inward was comfy for me. I didnt care aero gains. Im portant for me was very comfortable since you doing 100 mile. I recommend to any cyclist mess around find what comforts you. For me slight inward 😊
I have a 42cm wide handelbar, I tried it when the levers is straight I feel that my hands is so open wide and the control of the bike is literally trash lol, but then I did my levers inwards and it feels much much better, been riding at this position for around 8 months now, and had no issues!
Everybody says aero because your hands are narrower but nobody talks about your elbows. When your wrist/hands rotate inwards your elbows rotate out. That might be why it is only 3W savings.
I tried it for a couple months and went back to my old school position.
David, What about flared handlebars? How do flared bars feel compared to normal bars with hoods turned in like you have just done in this vid?
I do it for comfort because naturally your hand like to grab things at an angle. The other reason is I prefer 360 handlebar (only found out after turning the lever) so it did the trick on my 380 bar after turning it in. Then my next bike had a 360 bar now, on my 360 I do position it straight
But that's because I didn't like the look of angle lever so I've position it straight on 360
Anyone, please show me an anatomical picture of neutral/natural hand position where the hands are inwards.🤔
I find if you angle them in a not so aggressively inward angle is the best compromise for comfort without the handling, braking and hood climbing drawbacks
I started doing this to a small degree a year or so ago. One day I had a fall and cut my hand, no damage to the bike. I had to stop one of the guys in the group trying to wrench my levers straight as he thought they'd both twisted in the fall.
I use a logitech trackball for better ergonomic. haven't tried it, but that angle looks closer to my trackball.
I’d disagree that the shifters are designed to be used in the standard position they have always been fitted that way through tradition (from non sti levers/downtube shifters) I tilted them inboard since I swapped from downtube to sti levers back when The first dura ace version came out for 9 speed 7700 , if you hold your had out you have a natural curve to you hand the pros have taken it to an extreme which is dangerous to a degree with the extreme angle.
maybe an additional information regarding the "flatter handposition". Flat is not good. e.g. your hand position on a typicall pc mouse is flat and that is not ergonomic. There are ergonomic mouses which are slight angled position of your upright handposition (like on a roadbike). its tiltet a few degrees. So conclusio: if you tilt your hoods in a moderate angle, i think there is the sweetspot in terms of comfort and "healthy".
Thanks for your video and test!
I love it, and actually find the brakes easier to reach when in the drops. Though out of the saddle does sucks.
Its seems it might feel more comfortable for people who run bars that are TOO narrow... not for me though. It looks gormless and is utterly pointless.
Shimano's 12 speed hoods already have a nice ergonomic shape, so why ruin it by twisting wrists at a 30 degree angle - see how that works out after 5 hours on the bike...
If you relax your arms completely while standing, your hands will hang at a slight angle, not completely straight by your sides, so by bringing them straight you're twisting your wrists. I found turning shifters in a little bit is much more comfortable. Obviously, example in the video is way too extreme.
3 watts. I'll take it😊
If the angle matches the bar as it did on the shallow gravel bars the reach issues disappears. Despite that, I am going to angle mine in a little for comfort due to watching this video.
One reason the UCI may be banning this set-up is it is being done on bars that are already extremely narrow. This could cause handling issues if your hands are only 20 cm apart on the hoods?
I've always rode with hoods angled in due a accident I had 15 years which seriously affected my tendons in my wrist with the hoods angled it's much more comfortable as a disabled rider.
I think they’re concerned about the Campenauts (?) position, low and far forward, leaning the wrists on the bars.
I tried this just because it helped alleviate some discomfort in my wrist when on the hoods. Unfortunately, it pushed my elbows out and caused discomfort I'm my shoulders. Pretty sure the elbows out was thing was less aero!
Hi David
Any chance of a review on your Wahoo Roam V2??
I have gel pads on my hadlebars. I do not see much on them, but I like them as a recreational guy. More comfortable cycling is what I like getting the luxury ride.
Are they going to ban flared bars in gravel
The only truly safe handlebar is a flat bar. Being that angling your hoods rotates your hands closer to a flat position and doesn't inhibit your ability to reach your brake levers I’d argue it’s probably safer than upright levers.
I have tried it for a bit and being able to rest your forearms on the tops is amazing
I do find the angeled hoods do feel a lot better to me. Especially on the long rides. However, I have had two DI2 cables go bad from pinching and breaking right at the end of the cable by the port on the hood. On one ride I had to use a 4-foot cable as a quick fix but only needed about 6 inches, I ended up wrapping the extra around my computer mount and flopped around for 80+ miles that day. 🙂 I love electronic shifting but when it goes bad it's bad. I had to ride over 50 miles one time on a single smaller cog gear - before I knew about unplugging the rear for a few minutes to reboot - works most of the time when it's not a cable/battery issue 😞
By the way, I've also seen the comfort improve even if angling them in less, maybe about 20 degrees or less (haven't measured) It also saves the cables (I think).
I think the logical conclusion of people realizing that this is comfortable, combined with most recreational riders only using the tops, should result in a shift toward bullhorn handlebars previously only seen on fixed gears or townie bikes.
Electronic shifting makes this change even easier with not having to worry about brifter lever design anymore. Not that I'm really a fan of that, but anyways.
I say 'should' above, but i doubt it will happen anytime soon or at all. The road handlebar shape is just too linked to road cycling, hard to imagine the big brands marketing a regular road bike with bullhorns, or, even more radical, something like the Velo Orange Crazy Bar, despite how much it may make sense for modern riders.
I'd tried this experiment. Let your brake levers a bit loose and let your body find the natural position: the size of the hands, shoulders and arms will determine it. Then fix them in that position
i leaned my in a year ago. love. didnt know it was a thing.
On the drops those brake levers might be difficult to grab in an emergency.
You went for as far as they would go , half that amount angled will give you more comfort , some aero , easier to reach brakes and less negative affect on out of seat ... TRY it ... oh .. 3 watts on a tyre is seen as awesome !
Try it with not as much angle and a wider bar I think it’s safer and faster on descents with no sore neck or shoulders . I am soon to turn 62!
I angled my levers, but not much.
Its much comfortable, and I feel more aero but im not competing so its really matter for me.
Its more comfortable, that the main thing
So many comments saying that this improves comfort; I will say that personally I don't find this comfortable at all, lengthens the reach, also to the levers themselves, and promotes a stiff, unprecise grip on the STIs. Obviously it's just an opinion. I keep my hoods straight, hell, maybe even slightly outwards angled.
UCI can’t tell me what I can and cannot do with my bike.
above category!!!!!
Good question
I think it's 5050.
And I think it's coming because all the Accidents but I still think that has to do With the bikes getting lighter , The more of these carbon fiber bikes get lighter.
The air flow around them.
You have less control . I remember Accidents
Back in the 80s. When we were riding steel bikes or heavier bikes. But not as many.
My hoods are tilted in but not to that extreme, more for ergonomics then aero.
I tried it one day, but very moderately (maybe 2cm in on the end of the hood) and it is actually more comfortable for me, so it stayed. But I would never try this extreme angle eg. Ayuso does.
I tried this at home about a year ago and more comforatble for me than the straight position.
Another genius move by UCI, which will prevent exactly as many accidents as the supertuck ban did, i.e., none at all. But it is easier to impose arbitrary rules on riders and look like you care about safety, than to consider what is an actual danger for riders (downhill finishes, motorcycles...) and do something about it.
It's not about aero for me, never been. All about ergonomics. having straight shifters is forcing my hands into an unnatural position, whereas the angle is much more natural. I don't go to such an extreme angle as the exaggerated position in the video though, about halfway there.
It's perfectly fine for me. I've been riding this way since April. I don't have a problem with the brakes either. To each his own.
Your lever position is not nearly as radical as many pros use -I doubt the UCI would ban it. Also, it would be easy for companies to revise/optimize their levers for this position, maybe incorporating a simple adjustment feature.
I have a 23 g7 madone slr 7 and bars on madone are narrow first ride i did 30 miles i notice the comfort on my hands had to get use to it. Now i love how it feels cant stop riding it
The new generation of shifters already come with a slight inward tilt there are only advantages. I never rode a bike or moto with default factory ergonomics. Every pro rider will be knocking their shifters inwards at the start line after the UCI inspection.
surely there's more chance of a broken wrist in a crash with the hoods angled inwards? I imagine that's the safety issue.
The main issue I've found (even though I still ride with hoods in) is that its harder to reach the break lever (especially with small hands) because you have to reach "around" the end of the lever in an arc rather than just straight and pull towards you.
Didn't the UCI ban disc brakes because of "safety" concerns?
With this ridiculous trend of super (way too) wide handlebars coming stock on bikes, turning in the hoods is a simple an free way to mitigate its downsides, rather than buying a new narrower handlebar. I like it. Not foe the aero gains, but for the comfort.
If it were about safety then they’d immediately ban upwrongs and low tadpole recumbents would be the only cycles permitted. Less distance to fall.
My gravel bike is angled in. It doesn’t feel much different to me so I just crack on and ride it
I've always angled in my brifters for the comfort it provides. For those of us not shackled by the banning company, try it!