I have learnt so much from you. Thank you ! You are the only UA-camr that I will watch the ads in their entirety That’s my minuscule contribution to show my appreciation 👍🏻
I would suggest having the fan be powered independently of the heater/cooler so that it runs continuously. This will give a more even temperature profile thoughout the chamber at all times and a quicker response to temperature fluctuations. It doesn't look like the fridge has its own circ fan so the separate fan will be needed during a cooling operation. The fan is a heat source, but that should not be significant. Thanks for channel, it has helped me a lot!
That's interesting, I could do that. Do you think the fan will survive being on continuously? Perhaps I should look at that element a bit closer. Appreciate your thoughts
I use a box with heating pad and thermostat. The box does experience temperature fluctuations of about 2-3 degrees Centigrade, but it really doesn't seem to matter. I think you'll find, all you just need to look at the average temperature involved. It will work fine.
Great video Phil. I personally don't suffer from such temperature fluctuation in the UK, but do use a Brod & Taylor Proofing box, which does give great temperature control when used in Proofing mode. It doesn't come with all the electrical wizardry you have employed, but serves me well
I've heard the Brod and Taylor Proofing Box is very good. It would work well for me in the winter, but I need some serious cooling in the summer! Cheers Kenny
That's a great use of the drainage hole. I probably would have drilled an extra hole through the side without thinking. I'd would feed the cable of a power strip through it, though, to have internal "electrical wiring" without having to feed the extra cables through the door rubber. Great job all in all. I was definitely inspired to shamelessly rip off your idea! 😉
I've thought about putting a power strip inside, but it was looking at a nest of cables that put me off. Maybe I'll create a little housing in the base. Using the strip would certainly be an option. Rip away my friend, rip away
@@CulinaryExploration True enough! I'd try a wooden false floor at the bottom, 4 to 5 cm in height (or whatever height you need for the power strip). It wouldn't need any weight-bearing, so 2 to 3 mm strength should suffice. Top plate, left, right (front as a nice cable cover addition). You could even use that base to fix the devices to it. All of this is (most likely) highly unnecessary over-engineering, though.
You could reinforce your wire rack with a few metal rods. Another thought for a shelf; using thin plywood you could drill a bunch of holes with the aid of a hole saw.
I got a thing called a CRT that is designed to hold medicine at room temperature. It holds 25C consistently and looks like a nice little glass door wine fridge. I got mine secondhand for $50 so look out. It fits my starter and up to 6 bannetons.
Similar to Barry's idea, but instead of ply, a thin sheet of perspex. Slots drilled for ventilation. Structural rigidity without the bulk. Great work on this experimental phase you're detailing. I've got a pH meter coming in order to monitor and determine optimal bulk fermentation using pH.
Very intriguing. I use a reptile heating mat under a cooling rack with a cambro pan with the dough on the rack. Then I invert a bigger cambro pan over the whole thing. Temps are perfect but consistent....
To dampen temperature fluctuations, add some containers with water: water's heat capacity will keep the temperature more stable (but will more time to achieve the target temperature)
I think you may find that a thermostat controlling a heater/fridge may not give you the temperature accuracy you're expecting - just because you're temperature controller is set to switch on/off at 0.3C difference, doesn't mean that the temperature will be controlled within 0.3C. That's what I found when I was using a very similar setup for tests with home-made sous-vide controllers - there's a reason that no commercial sous-vide machine uses a simple thermostat on/off for temperature control, it's not accurate enough. Commercial machines all use PID controllers which 'learn' how to control temperature, and it's far more accurate. I found that thermostat control, even though I had a temperature controller with 0.1C resolution, had set on/off difference to 0.2C and had a pump to circulate the water, in practice gave me 2-3C temperature fluctuations, which is the difference between a rare and medium steak. I suspect you may hit the same issues, your Inkbird temp monitor will give you an idea. Temperature control to fractions of a degree isn't easy.
Interesting Peter. I'll have a better idea very soon, I'll be testing how the temperature of the chamber and a dough hold over a fermentation period. Appreciate the feedback from your experience, very helpful
@@CulinaryExploration Hysteresis in the heater/cooler is the main problem. A heater continues to be hot, and therefore to output heat, for some time after it's been switched off by the thermostat, so temperature continues to rise. Likewise, it can a while after it's been switched on before it outputs useful heat, so temperature can continue to fall but this is less of an issue than the hot end. PID controllers learn to compensate for the hysteresis and reliably maintain temp to within 0.1C. Good luck with the experiments, I'll be watching with interest.
There's ingenuity at work here that Barnes Wallis would have approved of (some of my sourdough failures would have breached a dam). Good luck with the enterprise!
If the temp is supposed to remain constant over _long_ periods of time, I suggest putting a serious amount of metal or stones in the fridge to act as a temperature buffer. It will reduce the amount of air that is exchanged with the outside when the fridge is opened, and will help stabilise the temp of the fresh air after the door is closed again.
Have you thought of using a sous vide machine on a large container and keeping the dough in a plastic container, easy to monitor growth and consistent temperature
That's an interesting idea Jason. I may have a go just for fun. I went with the fridge because it would give me a lot of room to store large quantities of dough.
With a PID controller you should be able to leave both heating and cooling elements plugged in all the time, the unit will switch on either heating or cooling itself depending on what the internal algorithm tell it to. The fan isn't necessary at all either, the fridge is a sealed and insulated chamber and the heated or cooled air contained within will become homogenous very quickly. I like the project though, and I would be looking at solar panels topping up used truck batteries with an inverter, to save on your power bills.
I'm seriously thinking about the Pid but I can hold some pretty constant temps at the moment. Interesting point about the fan. I've got a couple of panels on the roof of the apartment building that heats my water, could be another project :)
Hi Phil, Just discovered your channel. Great stuff. I love some of your kitchen gear, but couldn't find it all referenced on your website, for instance, the large flour storage boxes and scoops etc. Am also looking for some decent crumpet rings, but most of them on Amazon have such bad reviews or are just too shallow under 3 cm. Can you recommend any? Maybe a vid on your fave bits of kit?
Hi Andrew, the storage bins for the flour and the scoops came from Ikea, they work really well and they are budget-friendly. I think the crumpet rings are referenced on the crumpet recipe blog on the website. If not, drop me an email and when I'm back in Athens I'll get back to you in more detail - let me know if there is anything else. Cheers, Phil
Yo what's with the starter jar on your thumbnail? I kind of freaked out because i have the exact same jar with same lid, same color and patterns, which i use to store my own starter because of it having a convenient shape. Is it from a famous brand of jam or something? Mine was sitting on my shelf for years so i don't really remember where it came from
You are brilliant, your content and editing skills fantastic.
I have learnt so much from you. Thank you !
You are the only UA-camr that I will watch the ads in their entirety
That’s my minuscule contribution to show my appreciation 👍🏻
Cheers Gary, appreciated :)
I would suggest having the fan be powered independently of the heater/cooler so that it runs continuously. This will give a more even temperature profile thoughout the chamber at all times and a quicker response to temperature fluctuations. It doesn't look like the fridge has its own circ fan so the separate fan will be needed during a cooling operation. The fan is a heat source, but that should not be significant. Thanks for channel, it has helped me a lot!
That's interesting, I could do that. Do you think the fan will survive being on continuously? Perhaps I should look at that element a bit closer. Appreciate your thoughts
Or, run the fan on a timer just to reduce Air stratification.
Ie, 3 minutes in every 30 minutes.
after i found your channel i bake a loaf every week and things going very well.
Awesome!
I use a box with heating pad and thermostat. The box does experience temperature fluctuations of about 2-3 degrees Centigrade, but it really doesn't seem to matter. I think you'll find, all you just need to look at the average temperature involved. It will work fine.
Cheers Barry
Great video Phil. I personally don't suffer from such temperature fluctuation in the UK, but do use a Brod & Taylor Proofing box, which does give great temperature control when used in Proofing mode. It doesn't come with all the electrical wizardry you have employed, but serves me well
I've heard the Brod and Taylor Proofing Box is very good. It would work well for me in the winter, but I need some serious cooling in the summer! Cheers Kenny
That's a great use of the drainage hole. I probably would have drilled an extra hole through the side without thinking. I'd would feed the cable of a power strip through it, though, to have internal "electrical wiring" without having to feed the extra cables through the door rubber.
Great job all in all. I was definitely inspired to shamelessly rip off your idea! 😉
I've thought about putting a power strip inside, but it was looking at a nest of cables that put me off. Maybe I'll create a little housing in the base. Using the strip would certainly be an option. Rip away my friend, rip away
@@CulinaryExploration True enough!
I'd try a wooden false floor at the bottom, 4 to 5 cm in height (or whatever height you need for the power strip). It wouldn't need any weight-bearing, so 2 to 3 mm strength should suffice. Top plate, left, right (front as a nice cable cover addition). You could even use that base to fix the devices to it.
All of this is (most likely) highly unnecessary over-engineering, though.
@@Knabenbube I can see this being an ongoing project lol
You could reinforce your wire rack with a few metal rods. Another thought for a shelf; using thin plywood you could drill a bunch of holes with the aid of a hole saw.
I like the plywood idea Barry
I got a thing called a CRT that is designed to hold medicine at room temperature. It holds 25C consistently and looks like a nice little glass door wine fridge. I got mine secondhand for $50 so look out. It fits my starter and up to 6 bannetons.
I love your detail orientation. All I can afford is pot luck! Love ur stuff
Cheers Laurie :)
Similar to Barry's idea, but instead of ply, a thin sheet of perspex. Slots drilled for ventilation. Structural rigidity without the bulk. Great work on this experimental phase you're detailing. I've got a pH meter coming in order to monitor and determine optimal bulk fermentation using pH.
I've got one on order too, and Cachi (a viewer) has given me some ideas. Keep me posted on how you get on Michael, if you have any ideas, let me know
Yes!! You are my kinda dude!! 💪😊👍
Cheers!
Very intriguing. I use a reptile heating mat under a cooling rack with a cambro pan with the dough on the rack. Then I invert a bigger cambro pan over the whole thing. Temps are perfect but consistent....
Cheers Joe
To dampen temperature fluctuations, add some containers with water: water's heat capacity will keep the temperature more stable (but will more time to achieve the target temperature)
I think you may find that a thermostat controlling a heater/fridge may not give you the temperature accuracy you're expecting - just because you're temperature controller is set to switch on/off at 0.3C difference, doesn't mean that the temperature will be controlled within 0.3C.
That's what I found when I was using a very similar setup for tests with home-made sous-vide controllers - there's a reason that no commercial sous-vide machine uses a simple thermostat on/off for temperature control, it's not accurate enough. Commercial machines all use PID controllers which 'learn' how to control temperature, and it's far more accurate.
I found that thermostat control, even though I had a temperature controller with 0.1C resolution, had set on/off difference to 0.2C and had a pump to circulate the water, in practice gave me 2-3C temperature fluctuations, which is the difference between a rare and medium steak.
I suspect you may hit the same issues, your Inkbird temp monitor will give you an idea.
Temperature control to fractions of a degree isn't easy.
Interesting Peter. I'll have a better idea very soon, I'll be testing how the temperature of the chamber and a dough hold over a fermentation period. Appreciate the feedback from your experience, very helpful
@@CulinaryExploration Hysteresis in the heater/cooler is the main problem. A heater continues to be hot, and therefore to output heat, for some time after it's been switched off by the thermostat, so temperature continues to rise.
Likewise, it can a while after it's been switched on before it outputs useful heat, so temperature can continue to fall but this is less of an issue than the hot end.
PID controllers learn to compensate for the hysteresis and reliably maintain temp to within 0.1C.
Good luck with the experiments, I'll be watching with interest.
There's ingenuity at work here that Barnes Wallis would have approved of (some of my sourdough failures would have breached a dam).
Good luck with the enterprise!
Cheers Neil!
Awesome, thanks so much for sending me this link! Is there an update on your calculator your developing?
The spreadsheet is pretty much there, I'll update you by email :)
If the temp is supposed to remain constant over _long_ periods of time, I suggest putting a serious amount of metal or stones in the fridge to act as a temperature buffer. It will reduce the amount of air that is exchanged with the outside when the fridge is opened, and will help stabilise the temp of the fresh air after the door is closed again.
Nice project , that seems quite convoluted however, I think some of the food cooler conversions are better than using a old fridge.
Brilliant!
you can program a camera to take a picture every x min and send it to your phone
Have you thought of using a sous vide machine on a large container and keeping the dough in a plastic container, easy to monitor growth and consistent temperature
That's an interesting idea Jason. I may have a go just for fun. I went with the fridge because it would give me a lot of room to store large quantities of dough.
With a PID controller you should be able to leave both heating and cooling elements plugged in all the time, the unit will switch on either heating or cooling itself depending on what the internal algorithm tell it to. The fan isn't necessary at all either, the fridge is a sealed and insulated chamber and the heated or cooled air contained within will become homogenous very quickly.
I like the project though, and I would be looking at solar panels topping up used truck batteries with an inverter, to save on your power bills.
I'm seriously thinking about the Pid but I can hold some pretty constant temps at the moment. Interesting point about the fan. I've got a couple of panels on the roof of the apartment building that heats my water, could be another project :)
Hi Phil, Just discovered your channel. Great stuff. I love some of your kitchen gear, but couldn't find it all referenced on your website, for instance, the large flour storage boxes and scoops etc. Am also looking for some decent crumpet rings, but most of them on Amazon have such bad reviews or are just too shallow under 3 cm. Can you recommend any? Maybe a vid on your fave bits of kit?
Hi Andrew, the storage bins for the flour and the scoops came from Ikea, they work really well and they are budget-friendly. I think the crumpet rings are referenced on the crumpet recipe blog on the website. If not, drop me an email and when I'm back in Athens I'll get back to you in more detail - let me know if there is anything else. Cheers, Phil
@@CulinaryExploration Great thanks, I found the link to the crumpet forms in the recipe. So it looks like crumpets for breakfast on Sunday :-)
Hello Phil , great idea .
Where in Greece ?
I'm from Rhodes island ,Jamas 👏
Rhodes is beautiful, I live in Athens, cheers buddy!
are you always aiming for 25C ?
Yo what's with the starter jar on your thumbnail? I kind of freaked out because i have the exact same jar with same lid, same color and patterns, which i use to store my own starter because of it having a convenient shape. Is it from a famous brand of jam or something? Mine was sitting on my shelf for years so i don't really remember where it came from
Hey Kevin, That is a probe that reads the temp in the chamber, nothing to do with the jar ;)
Hue play bar? Wow. Seriously pimped fridge 😂
LOL, that's all I had to hand, but I can give it a nice pimped neon look :)
If people are willing to through all this then I'd recommend just buying a dehydrator because it does most everything shown in the video