What Sorcery needs is to hire more teachers like Haine to go and train owners of local game stores how to teach the game. This personal approach would go very far if they had a legion of teachers like Haine. But he can't do it on his own. He needs support from Eric and the team.
who has time to do that with a game that isn't even readily available? When a game store owner has to order everything from TCGplaya or at ridiculous marked up prices thanks to 'muh investment' the game is never going to get off the ground.
Well typically they're called "brand ambassadors", and it's just gonna take time to get enough people who have the time and knowledge of Sorcery to do.
Incredible video. You have some really strong points: -The TC Beta distribution even it seemed strange at first, made perfect sense for a startup company. -The grid system seems complicated at first, but the more I play, the more I recognize that it is essential to the game, relatively simple cards mixed with a grid creates a whole universe of possibilities without having to rely on "wall of text" on cards. -Some kind of starters should always be available. Even though i think that they should be different from time to time. -Here in Québec, Canada, english only cards are also an issue, but thinking that cards have very few text on them, it is easy to go around this issue (Considering you have access to rules in the correct language). Continue hour good work you 2!
I love Haine's analysis of this game! I commented on his video before that he is the Voice of Reason in this game and that's what I love about this guy. Everyone else is getting caught up in the hype (which is great because that means they are passionate about it) but he's able to take a more objective look. His take on the Team Covenant exclusivity is a great example. As he said "People are only looking at the result AFTER the dice have been rolled". Erik's Curiosa made a calculated gamble. They rolled well but they are still rolling. This game in only in Beta! Until the game gets to a point equivalent to Unlimited or Revised (in MTG terms) I don't think it's fair to judge distribution and print quality issues to the degree the community seems to do. I'm confident Erik is going to succeed and I'm willing to keep playing and be patient. I think Sorcery is going to be just fine.
Hype and passion are often conflated and mistaken. It’s great to be passionate. Nothing is ever perfect and there are always growing pains with start up companies. I think it’s fun and interesting to analyze the pros and cons of choices. And overall the company is having a tremendous start and delivering a world class product that many of us really love.
@@CollectorArthouse agreed! Passionate shows a connection to the game and is good. Hype is more of a negative and I'd associate that more with the people who don't actually play and/or collect. The flippers and speculators mostly. They seem to magnify everything to a ridiculous degree and I try to tune them out. I love this game and I'm very pleased with how the company has handled the business so far. The future looks bright!
I'd love to buy Sorcery one day but seems really expensive/hard to find. Just hope if it becomes easier to find and I didn't miss out on good cards that only Alpha/Beta had.
I'm a believer in the need to flood the market with the precon decks. But also, I think they need to sell them to come with a very basic cheap 2p playmat of some kind as well... like a starter kit. If our stores here in Hawaii had a bunch of starter kits like this it'd be awesome and much easier to try and get things going.
@@ghostknight1865 yeah, i was surprised the precon box didnt come with a folded up paper mat. other games like magic or pokemon will do that, and its not even that necessary for those games.
You two are spot on about the game being tuned but it was VERY important to have a splashiness element to the keep things fluctuating. If the game was 100% balanced then eventually the community would find the most optimal way to build/play and everyone would just copy each other and you'd have an extremely stale meta that would never change. By having some effects splashy and luckish-powerful you create a medium in that you are never really sure which is the right card for the spot in a deck or which decision is "most" correct and etc. The game is a masterpiece for being right on so many intricate and minor details.
@@Loki- I have 2 decks right now, but that lgs is 40 minutes away. I played with the owner but he said the distributor doesn't carry sorcery, so he can't. :(
Great video from 2 greats in the sorcery content world. Thanks! Have you guys looked at Warlord Saga of the Storm. It’s kind of sits in between sorcery and FAB in gameplay. Has hand painted/drawn art that’s amazing. It’s also a reboot from when it originally released in the 2000s so has that early TCG feel. Is also just a very fun experience to play the game similar to Sorcery that uses a rank system rather than a grid. Definitely worth a look.
Thank you man. It was a great opp for Haine to show more of his personality. He’s a cool dude and did great. Is that the one TC has been talking about a lot lately? I think Menges did paintings for it. I’ll have to take a closer look at the art and the lineup.
Yes TC is supporting Warlord and yes Jeff Menges is also doing art for the game. I think he might be the only crossover with sorcery for now though. Llyn Hunter is doing some great paintings and hers are my favorite for the new cards so far.
I don't know exactly what the difference is between the alpha and beta. A few texts on cards were adapted and there were new avatars. Wouldn't it make sense to release a historical edition like Flash and blood to serve the global market again? The alpha avatars in particular are very popular. I really want to get my hands on more sorcery products, but in Europe it's so hard to get boosters etc. because the community here is very small. For a new player, the financial hurdle here is very high and I can understand many arguments when they say €350 and more for a display is too much money for me to get an insight into a game. There is also the problem with the playmats. This is essential for smooth play in sorcery and is almost no longer available. I have to print my own now. There should be so many products available globally that you're not dependent on a reseller before the release of a new edition. It's such a shame, the game is so good and really fun but if the situation with availability doesn't change soon I'll turn my back on the game.
I backed sorcery on Kickstarter and want to comment on what you said around 58 minutes. You mentioned how the people collecting sorcery are into it because they were around for the 90s Golden era of tcgs. It gives them nostalgia. My issue with this is it's giving sorcery the credit that Magic and Pokemon, earned after being out for 20 to 30 years without the work. Both Magic and Pokemon had to go through so many ups and downs and they're still around. I don't believe sorcery has really hit any major obstacles besides maybe short delays and lack of MSRP product for people getting into it now. I collected a lot of alpha, but it became stale with the finite amount of cards and waiting a year for AL. Personally, I haven't opened my sorcery binder in months. Citing the demographic of being between 35 and 50, of which I'm in the earlier part, there's so much time and effort to try to even get one of my friends engaged with it and even then when would we play with family and work obligations and no lgs support? I'm planning on selling my alpha boxes, but hope it does well for those who enjoy it.
Its not because of 'nostalgia' its because of the artists. This game has the best card art I've ever seen. I also backed and if the game wasn't good (aka FAB) I wouldn't have pulled the trigger on it despite the artists. I'm not going to lie though, they definitely botched the release of beta. There should've been a reprint in their back pocket immediately once the boxes got past 150% on the 2ndary market...they left money on the table now new players discovering it absolutely cannot get into it if they want to open boxes.
@@dbptwg LGS that were allocated product from distribution were dumping their stock at $120-130 at release while Team Covenant kept the price at $150. There's record of the sales on ebay and TCGplayer. The primary audience for Sorcery is middle-aged people who tend to collect and play kitchen table games because their time is limited. It's really a great niche. Targeting the folks with the most disposable income.
What Sorcery also needs is to be picked up by the Hearthstone team at Microsoft or better yet, the team that developed the original Hearthstone gameplay for Activision Blizzard. AND make some great playthrough tutorials. This game has so much potential. If they can pivot to a great web client, they can generate enough revenue to support a low printrun paper game.
It’s definitely a mixed bag. Many different interest segments that would love to have more; and fundamentally it needs to be available for all of those segments to grow, stick around, and remain engaged. Which is exactly why they printed more IMO.
The makers of the game are trying to do everything possible to make the game fail. Its such a great game that their lack of support in getting out more product is such a shame.
@@CollectorArthouse its sad because games looks great but people are so into other games and the risk of investing good money in a new "non" sustainable guarantee isnt worth it
@@munchinkin the only thing you can do is wait until it’s more established like fab I suppose. Or just enjoy it on a small scale and don’t put big money into it
What Sorcery needs is to hire more teachers like Haine to go and train owners of local game stores how to teach the game. This personal approach would go very far if they had a legion of teachers like Haine. But he can't do it on his own. He needs support from Eric and the team.
who has time to do that with a game that isn't even readily available? When a game store owner has to order everything from TCGplaya or at ridiculous marked up prices thanks to 'muh investment' the game is never going to get off the ground.
Well typically they're called "brand ambassadors", and it's just gonna take time to get enough people who have the time and knowledge of Sorcery to do.
Nice to see 2 of my favs on screen! Haine looks so serious!
Thanks man. Glad you enjoyed it.
Incredible video. You have some really strong points:
-The TC Beta distribution even it seemed strange at first, made perfect sense for a startup company.
-The grid system seems complicated at first, but the more I play, the more I recognize that it is essential to the game, relatively simple cards mixed with a grid creates a whole universe of possibilities without having to rely on "wall of text" on cards.
-Some kind of starters should always be available. Even though i think that they should be different from time to time.
-Here in Québec, Canada, english only cards are also an issue, but thinking that cards have very few text on them, it is easy to go around this issue (Considering you have access to rules in the correct language).
Continue hour good work you 2!
Thank you for the feedback. Glad you enjoyed it.
Was awesome to see this duo talk about Sorcery! Looking forward to your future vids
Thank you man. Appreciate the nice words.
I love Haine's analysis of this game! I commented on his video before that he is the Voice of Reason in this game and that's what I love about this guy. Everyone else is getting caught up in the hype (which is great because that means they are passionate about it) but he's able to take a more objective look. His take on the Team Covenant exclusivity is a great example. As he said "People are only looking at the result AFTER the dice have been rolled". Erik's Curiosa made a calculated gamble. They rolled well but they are still rolling. This game in only in Beta! Until the game gets to a point equivalent to Unlimited or Revised (in MTG terms) I don't think it's fair to judge distribution and print quality issues to the degree the community seems to do. I'm confident Erik is going to succeed and I'm willing to keep playing and be patient. I think Sorcery is going to be just fine.
Hype and passion are often conflated and mistaken. It’s great to be passionate. Nothing is ever perfect and there are always growing pains with start up companies. I think it’s fun and interesting to analyze the pros and cons of choices. And overall the company is having a tremendous start and delivering a world class product that many of us really love.
@@CollectorArthouse agreed! Passionate shows a connection to the game and is good. Hype is more of a negative and I'd associate that more with the people who don't actually play and/or collect. The flippers and speculators mostly. They seem to magnify everything to a ridiculous degree and I try to tune them out. I love this game and I'm very pleased with how the company has handled the business so far. The future looks bright!
I love the art and gameplay of Sorcery. If they can follow through, then I will be happy for a while enjoying sorcery.
@@Loki- absolutely. Amazing project
Great conversation! I really enjoyed every minute! ❤
Thank you very much!
Player set - enough of everything to make any legal deck you want.
Collector set - one of every card.
I'd love to buy Sorcery one day but seems really expensive/hard to find. Just hope if it becomes easier to find and I didn't miss out on good cards that only Alpha/Beta had.
You always have truly special guests on.
1:17:17 yay they just went to GenCon
great talk guys!
I'm a believer in the need to flood the market with the precon decks. But also, I think they need to sell them to come with a very basic cheap 2p playmat of some kind as well... like a starter kit. If our stores here in Hawaii had a bunch of starter kits like this it'd be awesome and much easier to try and get things going.
Due to the grid system, a playmat is an increased cost of getting into the game. They need maybe a paper grid map, something really cheap.
@@ghostknight1865 yeah, i was surprised the precon box didnt come with a folded up paper mat. other games like magic or pokemon will do that, and its not even that necessary for those games.
You two are spot on about the game being tuned but it was VERY important to have a splashiness element to the keep things fluctuating. If the game was 100% balanced then eventually the community would find the most optimal way to build/play and everyone would just copy each other and you'd have an extremely stale meta that would never change.
By having some effects splashy and luckish-powerful you create a medium in that you are never really sure which is the right card for the spot in a deck or which decision is "most" correct and etc.
The game is a masterpiece for being right on so many intricate and minor details.
This is a brilliant take. Very well stated. Thank you for the comment.
My closest card store doesn't even carry sorcery. I bought 4 boxes and haven't played a single game. It's depressing.
Sounds like you need to make a few decks and go offer games either 4 player or 2 player at your lgs
@@Loki- I have 2 decks right now, but that lgs is 40 minutes away. I played with the owner but he said the distributor doesn't carry sorcery, so he can't. :(
Great video from 2 greats in the sorcery content world. Thanks!
Have you guys looked at Warlord Saga of the Storm. It’s kind of sits in between sorcery and FAB in gameplay. Has hand painted/drawn art that’s amazing. It’s also a reboot from when it originally released in the 2000s so has that early TCG feel. Is also just a very fun experience to play the game similar to Sorcery that uses a rank system rather than a grid. Definitely worth a look.
Thank you man. It was a great opp for Haine to show more of his personality. He’s a cool dude and did great.
Is that the one TC has been talking about a lot lately? I think Menges did paintings for it. I’ll have to take a closer look at the art and the lineup.
Yes TC is supporting Warlord and yes Jeff Menges is also doing art for the game. I think he might be the only crossover with sorcery for now though. Llyn Hunter is doing some great paintings and hers are my favorite for the new cards so far.
I fell asleep before the stream. Hopefully everyone had fun!
2x bro. Haha
availability > collector value and its not even close
Did Haine ever mentioned what was the dead tcg that he likes?
He said he likes Dimension 0. Not sure about dead games.
I don't know exactly what the difference is between the alpha and beta. A few texts on cards were adapted and there were new avatars. Wouldn't it make sense to release a historical edition like Flash and blood to serve the global market again? The alpha avatars in particular are very popular. I really want to get my hands on more sorcery products, but in Europe it's so hard to get boosters etc. because the community here is very small. For a new player, the financial hurdle here is very high and I can understand many arguments when they say €350 and more for a display is too much money for me to get an insight into a game. There is also the problem with the playmats. This is essential for smooth play in sorcery and is almost no longer available. I have to print my own now. There should be so many products available globally that you're not dependent on a reseller before the release of a new edition. It's such a shame, the game is so good and really fun but if the situation with availability doesn't change soon I'll turn my back on the game.
I backed sorcery on Kickstarter and want to comment on what you said around 58 minutes. You mentioned how the people collecting sorcery are into it because they were around for the 90s Golden era of tcgs. It gives them nostalgia.
My issue with this is it's giving sorcery the credit that Magic and Pokemon, earned after being out for 20 to 30 years without the work. Both Magic and Pokemon had to go through so many ups and downs and they're still around. I don't believe sorcery has really hit any major obstacles besides maybe short delays and lack of MSRP product for people getting into it now.
I collected a lot of alpha, but it became stale with the finite amount of cards and waiting a year for AL.
Personally, I haven't opened my sorcery binder in months. Citing the demographic of being between 35 and 50, of which I'm in the earlier part, there's so much time and effort to try to even get one of my friends engaged with it and even then when would we play with family and work obligations and no lgs support?
I'm planning on selling my alpha boxes, but hope it does well for those who enjoy it.
Its not because of 'nostalgia' its because of the artists. This game has the best card art I've ever seen. I also backed and if the game wasn't good (aka FAB) I wouldn't have pulled the trigger on it despite the artists. I'm not going to lie though, they definitely botched the release of beta. There should've been a reprint in their back pocket immediately once the boxes got past 150% on the 2ndary market...they left money on the table now new players discovering it absolutely cannot get into it if they want to open boxes.
Axis and Allies
@@1984xfm yeah if was that or apocalypse haha
it doesn't have an online mode, that's a big fail for us people in south america
The stores who sold it under msrp were mad they couldn't get more to fire sale it. Sorcery isn't an lgs game.
@@dbptwg LGS that were allocated product from distribution were dumping their stock at $120-130 at release while Team Covenant kept the price at $150. There's record of the sales on ebay and TCGplayer. The primary audience for Sorcery is middle-aged people who tend to collect and play kitchen table games because their time is limited. It's really a great niche. Targeting the folks with the most disposable income.
🥃
Cheers!
What Sorcery also needs is to be picked up by the Hearthstone team at Microsoft or better yet, the team that developed the original Hearthstone gameplay for Activision Blizzard. AND make some great playthrough tutorials. This game has so much potential. If they can pivot to a great web client, they can generate enough revenue to support a low printrun paper game.
Microsoft acquired hearthstone? I did not know that
@@CollectorArthouse Microsoft acquired Activision Blizzard, so now they own Hearthstone, Warcraft, Starcraft, etc.
no it doesn't...that is literally a death knell to the game..iif they can't find a quality indy publisher then they don't need to go digital at all
I have a feeling a lot of the people complaining about booster box availability are collectors who missed out.
It’s definitely a mixed bag. Many different interest segments that would love to have more; and fundamentally it needs to be available for all of those segments to grow, stick around, and remain engaged. Which is exactly why they printed more IMO.
The makers of the game are trying to do everything possible to make the game fail. Its such a great game that their lack of support in getting out more product is such a shame.
If it gets no players then its just metazoo 2.0
Players are very important. Need supply to grow in that segment. I think there are some early growing pains but it will happen.
Sorcery is just another tcg and the impact of this card game will not last, anyways time will tell.
Is this dubbed?
Sorry I’m not sure what you mean
it will die before everyone doesnt give a shit ... art is good ... thats it ... MTG and POKE will stay ... everything else will die
@@munchinkin history tells us this is the most probable outcome. But history does not always prevail.
@@CollectorArthouse its sad because games looks great but people are so into other games and the risk of investing good money in a new "non" sustainable guarantee isnt worth it
@@munchinkin the only thing you can do is wait until it’s more established like fab I suppose. Or just enjoy it on a small scale and don’t put big money into it
no more Beta Booster Boxes are needed. We can print more Starter Decks, and even make some new introductory deck sets.
This game needs a global release or else it'll be dead in a few years