A few updates related to Windows on ARM: As of the Surface Pro 11's release, the ARM-based Surface Pro 9 is (seemingly) no longer purchasable via Microsoft's website. There's obvious performance-related reasons for them pulling the product. However, if you just want a 5G-equipped web browsing machine, you may now be able to grab one of these machines for much cheaper on the secondhand market. Prior to the Surface Pro 11's release, the x86 version of Premiere Pro was briefly made available for Windows on ARM via the SP9. Performance through emulation was more than enough for basic video editing and trimming on-the-go to post to social media. (4K rendering seemed a bit much.) DaVinci Resolve technically now has an ARM64 version available for Windows on ARM. While it works fine on the SP11, it still shows the same OpenGL errors as always when attempting to launch on the SP9. From some other testing I've done so far, there seems to be a significant jump in graphics API compatibility between the Microsoft SQ3 and Snapdragon X Elite. This may mean that apps like DaVinci Resolve will have continued development for Windows on ARM that pre-SP11 machines won't benefit from.
Figures. I just replaced my SPX I've owned since 2019 with an AMD computer. So you're welcome world. MS was waiting for me to personally abandon ARM before going all in.
To be fair, it wasn't quite ready around that time. Nobody would have judged you for making that decision, but personally I think it's good to at least have given it a try. But hey, it's about time to come back. :)
If it helps, the Pro 11 should be faster than my Pro 9, and here's some extra details about each on my computer: VS Code is hard for me to comment on due to the number of different tasks it does. (I also mainly use it as a fancy text editor these days when working outside an IDE.) However, it is at least a native ARM64 app at this point which should be a good sign. For Excel, I just did some quick stress testing by opening an old large CSV file (containing all possible combinations of the Powerball lottery) I had from a previous project. Compared to older Intel-based laptops I've used, the file was a bit quicker to open to the Excel error explaining that the file was too large. Similarly, Excel didn't slow down once opening as much data as it could or creating a PivotTable based on that data (beyond an initial, small processing delay when it created the PivotTable). To take it a step further, I loaded the large file into Power Query twice, merged the tables, and grouped on a column with several calculations. The final data load was close to 1 GB and took around half an hour to load, which is maybe a touch faster than load times I've experienced with larger datasets on my work-assigned, i7-1165G7-equipped laptop. Most sane people probably wouldn't load this much data into Excel. But, if you do, RAM is still a limiting factor here. (Complex data tasks in Excel really appreciate 32+ GB.) The data load also hits all CPU cores at once, which leads to a ton of heat on my fanless computer and significant battery drain. (For me, that was about 30%.) Most of my testing was also done on battery in Performance mode. Even when the Pro 9 started to heat up, the CPU only marginally dipped below its 3.0 GHz base clock in Task Manager. All of which is likely to be good news if you're doing less intense tasks and don't plan to dock your Surface all day. As for Power BI, I don't have full access to Power BI through my personal computers. However, I loaded the same large file using the free Desktop version while Excel was still loading the file. I didn't apply a Power Query transformation here, but Power BI felt much quicker in general to load the data set. Of course, once it was loaded, visualizations were creatable and editable without any stuttering.
nice, I look forward to competent snapdragon elite 2in1s, great coverage too btw I'm gonna stick with my latitude 9410 for now since despite x86 it gets 10-20 hours
Is the Xbox app on ARM totally different from the x86 one? My old Razer with an Intel CPU still shows my Windows PC Xbox games in the Xbox app. Not just cloud gaming
At the moment, yes. On my device, only the Cloud Gaming section is available unless I download games I've purchased through the Microsoft Store. From how Microsoft has talked about the Pro 11, that seems like it might change in the near future. However, it's still unclear how many of the proposed Windows on ARM updates will make their way either the Surface Pro 9 or Surface Pro X (despite both being fairly capable machines).
Does linux run on these things? Also for videos, ive had a fair bit of luck with KDEN-live. it's a bit unstable and less powerful than the mainstream stuff, but it works well and you should be able to build it or get the normal windows version to run. For games, maturity is key, as a proton lover, the longer it exists, the closer to native it will be. You already kinda said it, but it bears repeating.
Just checked on Linux support. Windows Subsystem for Linux has ARM64 support out of the box, and I was able to install Ubuntu using it just now without an issue.Though I couldn't tell you what long term usage would look like or if there are any huge restrictions vs an x86 machine. Thanks for the video editor suggestion! I'll check it out and (if it works well) post a pinned comment letting other folks know it's an option.
@@GameXData WSL is cool, though not quite the same as normal linux (the why i will keep out to avoid loading you with useless info, unless you ask). And linux on ARM is actually great (asahi linux, despite being beta quality, is able to beat macOS on M series chips in many CPU loads), and Good OGL (and for some chips Vulkan) support, there are even ways to use proton with it, but i'm not sure how it is with the specific hardware. Thanks for the answer.
@ananon5771 I totally get ya. Figured I'd at least provide WSL confirmation since it was within reach at the time. I know I've at least seen folks swap Windows for Linux on Surface RTs in the past, but it's still something I haven't tried yet personally. Good to know Linux on ARM is doing well though! I haven't had much interaction with ARM-based distros outside my Raspberry Pi 4, but I'm definitely interested to see how performance pans out once Snapdragon X chips start hitting the market.
I feel like the minusfourm V3 or the asus rog flow x13 and z13 are better alternatives. Especially for pricing. Though idk if it is as slim or its battery life is good, as i am broke, but from reveiwers,, it seems to run everything well, especially for the gaming side.
To be fair, they're also very different machines. The benefit of ARM-based machines tends to boil down to high battery life, mobile connectivity, and quiet operation. As far as I recall, ASUS' machines aren't the best for any of those factors.
That's not what this video claims. There's currently no PC Game Pass on the Surface Pro 9 with 5G. Microsoft's marketing materials indicate it's likely to be enabled for the Pro 11. However, there's no way of knowing for sure until folks get their hands on it.
I`ve seen some australian Mr`s review few hours ago, he was talking about some app for surface pro 9 that allows to print with any printer without drivers, but cannot find the link. You may look for it, could be useful.
A few updates related to Windows on ARM:
As of the Surface Pro 11's release, the ARM-based Surface Pro 9 is (seemingly) no longer purchasable via Microsoft's website. There's obvious performance-related reasons for them pulling the product. However, if you just want a 5G-equipped web browsing machine, you may now be able to grab one of these machines for much cheaper on the secondhand market.
Prior to the Surface Pro 11's release, the x86 version of Premiere Pro was briefly made available for Windows on ARM via the SP9. Performance through emulation was more than enough for basic video editing and trimming on-the-go to post to social media. (4K rendering seemed a bit much.)
DaVinci Resolve technically now has an ARM64 version available for Windows on ARM. While it works fine on the SP11, it still shows the same OpenGL errors as always when attempting to launch on the SP9. From some other testing I've done so far, there seems to be a significant jump in graphics API compatibility between the Microsoft SQ3 and Snapdragon X Elite. This may mean that apps like DaVinci Resolve will have continued development for Windows on ARM that pre-SP11 machines won't benefit from.
so happy people like you exist. your review was really helpful
You're awesome, thank you for your in-depth reviews!
Figures. I just replaced my SPX I've owned since 2019 with an AMD computer. So you're welcome world. MS was waiting for me to personally abandon ARM before going all in.
To be fair, it wasn't quite ready around that time. Nobody would have judged you for making that decision, but personally I think it's good to at least have given it a try. But hey, it's about time to come back. :)
witcher 3 working greatly my 8cx gen 2 I opened direct x 11-12 tried working greatly
You did a great job here, if you like arm surface you should be very happy to see snapdragon X on Surface 11
Great video, hope to see arm based machines take place in desktop computers in the future so exited to that!
what a great review! I'm looking answers on Heavy Excel, Power Bi and Visual Studio Code to decide on Pro 10 or Pro 11 ARM
If it helps, the Pro 11 should be faster than my Pro 9, and here's some extra details about each on my computer:
VS Code is hard for me to comment on due to the number of different tasks it does. (I also mainly use it as a fancy text editor these days when working outside an IDE.) However, it is at least a native ARM64 app at this point which should be a good sign.
For Excel, I just did some quick stress testing by opening an old large CSV file (containing all possible combinations of the Powerball lottery) I had from a previous project. Compared to older Intel-based laptops I've used, the file was a bit quicker to open to the Excel error explaining that the file was too large. Similarly, Excel didn't slow down once opening as much data as it could or creating a PivotTable based on that data (beyond an initial, small processing delay when it created the PivotTable).
To take it a step further, I loaded the large file into Power Query twice, merged the tables, and grouped on a column with several calculations. The final data load was close to 1 GB and took around half an hour to load, which is maybe a touch faster than load times I've experienced with larger datasets on my work-assigned, i7-1165G7-equipped laptop.
Most sane people probably wouldn't load this much data into Excel. But, if you do, RAM is still a limiting factor here. (Complex data tasks in Excel really appreciate 32+ GB.) The data load also hits all CPU cores at once, which leads to a ton of heat on my fanless computer and significant battery drain. (For me, that was about 30%.) Most of my testing was also done on battery in Performance mode. Even when the Pro 9 started to heat up, the CPU only marginally dipped below its 3.0 GHz base clock in Task Manager. All of which is likely to be good news if you're doing less intense tasks and don't plan to dock your Surface all day.
As for Power BI, I don't have full access to Power BI through my personal computers. However, I loaded the same large file using the free Desktop version while Excel was still loading the file. I didn't apply a Power Query transformation here, but Power BI felt much quicker in general to load the data set. Of course, once it was loaded, visualizations were creatable and editable without any stuttering.
nice, I look forward to competent snapdragon elite 2in1s, great coverage too btw
I'm gonna stick with my latitude 9410 for now since despite x86 it gets 10-20 hours
extremely useful
what about avx2/avx512 emulation?
Very good and full comprehensive review. Not the right device for me but appreciate the pros and cons.
Is the Xbox app on ARM totally different from the x86 one? My old Razer with an Intel CPU still shows my Windows PC Xbox games in the Xbox app. Not just cloud gaming
At the moment, yes. On my device, only the Cloud Gaming section is available unless I download games I've purchased through the Microsoft Store.
From how Microsoft has talked about the Pro 11, that seems like it might change in the near future. However, it's still unclear how many of the proposed Windows on ARM updates will make their way either the Surface Pro 9 or Surface Pro X (despite both being fairly capable machines).
Hello, is it possible to run games like Starfield?
No
Does linux run on these things?
Also for videos, ive had a fair bit of luck with KDEN-live. it's a bit unstable and less powerful than the mainstream stuff, but it works well and you should be able to build it or get the normal windows version to run.
For games, maturity is key, as a proton lover, the longer it exists, the closer to native it will be. You already kinda said it, but it bears repeating.
Just checked on Linux support. Windows Subsystem for Linux has ARM64 support out of the box, and I was able to install Ubuntu using it just now without an issue.Though I couldn't tell you what long term usage would look like or if there are any huge restrictions vs an x86 machine.
Thanks for the video editor suggestion! I'll check it out and (if it works well) post a pinned comment letting other folks know it's an option.
@@GameXData WSL is cool, though not quite the same as normal linux (the why i will keep out to avoid loading you with useless info, unless you ask).
And linux on ARM is actually great (asahi linux, despite being beta quality, is able to beat macOS on M series chips in many CPU loads), and Good OGL (and for some chips Vulkan) support, there are even ways to use proton with it, but i'm not sure how it is with the specific hardware.
Thanks for the answer.
@ananon5771 I totally get ya. Figured I'd at least provide WSL confirmation since it was within reach at the time. I know I've at least seen folks swap Windows for Linux on Surface RTs in the past, but it's still something I haven't tried yet personally.
Good to know Linux on ARM is doing well though! I haven't had much interaction with ARM-based distros outside my Raspberry Pi 4, but I'm definitely interested to see how performance pans out once Snapdragon X chips start hitting the market.
I've seen ppl literally recommending others to install linux on apple silicon machines, so I guess no problem for this case
But what you said sounded like you spent 1600 dollars on a netbook.
You have a really skewed memory of netbooks if you think they have similar performance
I feel like the minusfourm V3 or the asus rog flow x13 and z13 are better alternatives. Especially for pricing. Though idk if it is as slim or its battery life is good, as i am broke, but from reveiwers,, it seems to run everything well, especially for the gaming side.
To be fair, they're also very different machines. The benefit of ARM-based machines tends to boil down to high battery life, mobile connectivity, and quiet operation. As far as I recall, ASUS' machines aren't the best for any of those factors.
@GameXData yeah, the asus is more meant for gaming so can't argue that.
The v3 won't have great battery life the 7840u/8840u is too power hungry@@THETECHFROMJIMNIM
@@GameXData AMD "can" get good battery life. You just can't be doing anything on them 🤣
Fallout 3 need a patch to work on non discrete GPUs. There is one availble on nexus mod.
does it run starfield ?
8:28 that's a big deal. No pc games for Xbox game pass on Surface Pro 11???
That's not what this video claims. There's currently no PC Game Pass on the Surface Pro 9 with 5G. Microsoft's marketing materials indicate it's likely to be enabled for the Pro 11. However, there's no way of knowing for sure until folks get their hands on it.
If my printer can provide printer driver for it, yes I’m in.
I`ve seen some australian Mr`s review few hours ago, he was talking about some app for surface pro 9 that allows to print with any printer without drivers, but cannot find the link. You may look for it, could be useful.
Windows 11 eww yuk. I’m sticking with a Linux ☺️
just use apple silicon mac
I have an M1 Pro MacBook Pro. It's an entirely different machine with an entirely different use case.