Thank you for this. I'm a mid to forefoot runner and got my gait assessed years ago by a specialist. When we watched the video back the first thing he mentioned was how loud it was. I've been believing that was a bad thing for years.
Results might be different in barefoot shoes, where things might be louder when landing on the heel. It is possible to land on the heel and then get a loud slap as the rest of the foot comes down. Have you done any videos on the tradeoffs between regular and barefoot shoes or on the best technique for barefoot shoe runners?
"Barefoot shoes" change a lot for most runners. However, I haven't seen any studies on differences in the sound volume of intermediate runners in FiveFingers and Asics Kayano, so of course I can't say how it is. However, my experience is that runners in barefoot shoes run significantly quieter than runners in more "regular" running shoes. This is because the shocks are felt significantly more in the thin shoes, which means that they often run in a way that reduces the vertical shocks (there is a video in the works about that, which will be called something like "That's why FiveFingers runners run like they do"). That they almost always have lower vertical forces is something I can measure with my 3D cameras. With reduced vertical forces, the sound volume is often lower.
I think it's a bit more complex. For example on steep downhills some runners literally slap their feet on the ground. A hard heel strike starts the landing followed by a foot slap. Very noisy. The feet feel it. Pulling up ones toes with a midfoot landing leads to a 'rolling' footstrike and a smooth transition to toe off. Very quiet. Happy feet. Also a squishy treadmill is not a typical surface so I have some doubt about this research. I believe in research, however as a researcher I know that it is easy to fool oneself in a test.
🤣🤣🤣! Guilty as charged! I always believed that a quiet landing of the foot on the ground was an indication of a more energy efficient landing than a loud foot landing. So much so that I tried to reduce the noise of my foot landing and always tried to limit the sound that produce when I land. 🤣🤣🤣 I guess I do not know much about what running is about! 🤣🤣🤣
Would you please tell about how to workout in the gym and what are best workout for high intensity running for example 4 km high intensity 15 seconds run for 75 meters and 18 seconds rest for 25 meters.
That was helpful- I have been trying to stop over stride and notice a louder noise of footfall on a midfoot landing. I thought I was still doing something wrong.
Exactly that is very common. That runners think they're running in a bad way when they try to adjust their technique and (hopefully) stop overstride just because the landings sound different and often a little more.
I think runners put too much emphasis on which part of the foot hits the ground first. In all three video examples, you were pawing back when your foot hit the treadmill. The direction your foot is moving when it lands, relative to the ground, may have a greater influence on sound, vertical force, efficiency, and injury. Within a given foot strike style, might there then be a correlation between sound and impact force?
I agree with you that runners put far too much focus on which part of the foot they put down. Also made one or two videos about it that you can watch if you want. And of course there is a correlation between sound volume and vertical force. However, "paw back" is not a thing. Especially not when running outdoors. If the foot moves backwards when it hits the ground, the vertical force is reduced. You don't want that if you're going to run fast. Planning to make a movie about "paw back" if not too long. Looking forward to your critical comments on that video already😃
@@SpringSnabbare Ha. If I'm being critical, it's because I'm interested and think you're open to listening. I am a big believer in paw back. I've seen so many videos of elite runners where their feet are moving back, relative to the ground, when they hit. It is a thing. It's also basic physics. If you have to move something like a boulder or big box, it's easier to do if you take a running start; i.e., have momentum in the direction you want before you hit the object. If your feet are sliding forward (sandpaper sound), you have to stop the forward momentum, then generate backwards force from 0. You got evidence to the contrary? Bring it on.😜
@@adamfeerst2575 If you are standing still, "paw back" is very logical. But you don't stand still when you run. It is not the foot that moves backwards, it is the body that moves forwards in relation to the foot. Why do you mention that the foot can move forwards? I have never said anything about that. As I explain in this video, the idea is that you first create a vertical force, the elastic structures are loaded with energy, you move your body forward and when you get your elastic recoil and create force in your push off, the centre of gravity is in front of the foot and you are pushed up/forward diagonally. The most important elements for running fast and efficiently are vertical force, where you land in relation to your centre of gravity and your contact time. All these things create the drive in your stride. It may be that even if you have good values for these parameters, you still don't run efficiently and this is usually due to too much vertical oscillation caused by too low a cadence (and sometimes also the leaning of the body). The horizontal force of the foot when it hits the ground is not something to consider. Since in my video on paw back I will include videos of the best in the world where I show how they do not move their feet backwards at all in relation to the earth's surface just before they touch the ground, I am very interested if you have films showing the opposite. Please post a link. Who knows, I might include them in my paw back video.
I find the results interesting however I would imagine that the sound on the treadmill would also change by the impact force and in turn the weight of the runner, therefore lighter runner with for foot strike might be quieter than heavier runner with heal strike.
Of course, the sound volume changes depending on the pace. The higher the pace, the more power is required, which of course increases the number of decibels. But the study I'm referring to was done on runners who all ran at the same pace and were about the same size. But contrary to what you might think, it is actually NOT the case that lighter runners sound less than heavier ones. Good runners always sound more than less good runners at the same pace. My experience is the opposite. If an average recreational runner weighing 78 kg runs at a pace of 5 min/km (8.02/mile), the landings will likely have a lower sound volume than an elite runner weighing 58 kg running at the same pace. At least that's my experience. It comes from the fact that elite runners basically always have a stronger and more distinct strike at the same pace as us normal runners.
Thank you for this. I'm a mid to forefoot runner and got my gait assessed years ago by a specialist. When we watched the video back the first thing he mentioned was how loud it was. I've been believing that was a bad thing for years.
It's not!
Thanks for the video - the role of science in sports is hugely underrepresented!
Thanks again Fredrik Zillen!
Results might be different in barefoot shoes, where things might be louder when landing on the heel. It is possible to land on the heel and then get a loud slap as the rest of the foot comes down. Have you done any videos on the tradeoffs between regular and barefoot shoes or on the best technique for barefoot shoe runners?
"Barefoot shoes" change a lot for most runners. However, I haven't seen any studies on differences in the sound volume of intermediate runners in FiveFingers and Asics Kayano, so of course I can't say how it is. However, my experience is that runners in barefoot shoes run significantly quieter than runners in more "regular" running shoes. This is because the shocks are felt significantly more in the thin shoes, which means that they often run in a way that reduces the vertical shocks (there is a video in the works about that, which will be called something like "That's why FiveFingers runners run like they do"). That they almost always have lower vertical forces is something I can measure with my 3D cameras. With reduced vertical forces, the sound volume is often lower.
I think it's a bit more complex. For example on steep downhills some runners literally slap their feet on the ground. A hard heel strike starts the landing followed by a foot slap. Very noisy. The feet feel it. Pulling up ones toes with a midfoot landing leads to a 'rolling' footstrike and a smooth transition to toe off. Very quiet. Happy feet. Also a squishy treadmill is not a typical surface so I have some doubt about this research. I believe in research, however as a researcher I know that it is easy to fool oneself in a test.
🤣🤣🤣! Guilty as charged! I always believed that a quiet landing of the foot on the ground was an indication of a more energy efficient landing than a loud foot landing. So much so that I tried to reduce the noise of my foot landing and always tried to limit the sound that produce when I land. 🤣🤣🤣
I guess I do not know much about what running is about! 🤣🤣🤣
Would you please tell about how to workout in the gym and what are best workout for high intensity running for example 4 km high intensity 15 seconds run for 75 meters and 18 seconds rest for 25 meters.
That was helpful- I have been trying to stop over stride and notice a louder noise of footfall on a midfoot landing. I thought I was still doing something wrong.
Exactly that is very common. That runners think they're running in a bad way when they try to adjust their technique and (hopefully) stop overstride just because the landings sound different and often a little more.
I think runners put too much emphasis on which part of the foot hits the ground first. In all three video examples, you were pawing back when your foot hit the treadmill. The direction your foot is moving when it lands, relative to the ground, may have a greater influence on sound, vertical force, efficiency, and injury.
Within a given foot strike style, might there then be a correlation between sound and impact force?
I agree with you that runners put far too much focus on which part of the foot they put down. Also made one or two videos about it that you can watch if you want. And of course there is a correlation between sound volume and vertical force. However, "paw back" is not a thing. Especially not when running outdoors. If the foot moves backwards when it hits the ground, the vertical force is reduced. You don't want that if you're going to run fast. Planning to make a movie about "paw back" if not too long. Looking forward to your critical comments on that video already😃
@@SpringSnabbare Ha. If I'm being critical, it's because I'm interested and think you're open to listening. I am a big believer in paw back. I've seen so many videos of elite runners where their feet are moving back, relative to the ground, when they hit. It is a thing. It's also basic physics. If you have to move something like a boulder or big box, it's easier to do if you take a running start; i.e., have momentum in the direction you want before you hit the object. If your feet are sliding forward (sandpaper sound), you have to stop the forward momentum, then generate backwards force from 0. You got evidence to the contrary? Bring it on.😜
@@adamfeerst2575 If you are standing still, "paw back" is very logical. But you don't stand still when you run. It is not the foot that moves backwards, it is the body that moves forwards in relation to the foot. Why do you mention that the foot can move forwards? I have never said anything about that. As I explain in this video, the idea is that you first create a vertical force, the elastic structures are loaded with energy, you move your body forward and when you get your elastic recoil and create force in your push off, the centre of gravity is in front of the foot and you are pushed up/forward diagonally. The most important elements for running fast and efficiently are vertical force, where you land in relation to your centre of gravity and your contact time. All these things create the drive in your stride. It may be that even if you have good values for these parameters, you still don't run efficiently and this is usually due to too much vertical oscillation caused by too low a cadence (and sometimes also the leaning of the body). The horizontal force of the foot when it hits the ground is not something to consider. Since in my video on paw back I will include videos of the best in the world where I show how they do not move their feet backwards at all in relation to the earth's surface just before they touch the ground, I am very interested if you have films showing the opposite. Please post a link. Who knows, I might include them in my paw back video.
So, do you do consults in usa?
I find the results interesting however I would imagine that the sound on the treadmill would also change by the impact force and in turn the weight of the runner, therefore lighter runner with for foot strike might be quieter than heavier runner with heal strike.
Of course, the sound volume changes depending on the pace. The higher the pace, the more power is required, which of course increases the number of decibels. But the study I'm referring to was done on runners who all ran at the same pace and were about the same size. But contrary to what you might think, it is actually NOT the case that lighter runners sound less than heavier ones. Good runners always sound more than less good runners at the same pace. My experience is the opposite. If an average recreational runner weighing 78 kg runs at a pace of 5 min/km (8.02/mile), the landings will likely have a lower sound volume than an elite runner weighing 58 kg running at the same pace. At least that's my experience. It comes from the fact that elite runners basically always have a stronger and more distinct strike at the same pace as us normal runners.
Mine are really loud and always get people turning around when i get within like 30m of them 😅
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