Dark Souls Lore - Ornstein & Smough
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- Опубліковано 2 лют 2018
- Dark Souls Lore - Dragonslayer Ornstein & Executioner Smough [New Version]
How many different nicknames do they have? A lot.
#darksouls
#darksoulslore
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What armor do you use
It's a texture-edited Brass Set.
Cool my favourite duo.
Where do you get your thumbnail pictures? My girlfriend wants to know because they are “cute”
SpicyMango brass set and ornstein
Giant herald chest and the rest havel
Imagine Smough ordering his armor to be made
“Yeah imma need extra generous stomach and breast space
Fun fact: Smough is an extremely muscular man. There are consept arts of him inside of his armor. And, else other than being muscular would he jump that high an carry that giant hammer?
I thought Ornstein was the Big Dragon Knight, not the Big Lion Knight
@@jevilcantmove have you seen how strong sumo wrestlers are? You dont to be super muscular to look strong
@@silverreaps6803 u need, literally, and Sumo wrestlers have a lot of it, the thing is being havy also helps them to push their opponents out of the "arena"
And for no practical reason too; he’s ripped beneath that obese armor
The pikachu and snorlax
Biggie and Smalls
Slim and Fatboy
*SLAM N JAM*
Wario and Waluigi
Except snorlax is a cannibal
And later pika-lax/snor-achu
I will never kill Orenstein first, i think of it as if this is the real Ornstein him being smashed by a giant hammer as the way he dies is a terrible way for his story to end. a great amazing knight killed by a giant hammer. Its cooler if his story ended as one last attempt to defeat the chosen dead he takes the power from his fallen comrade and battles the chosen undead to the end
King Fancy that Ornstein is an illusion so don't worry
I still feel bad though
So making him know he failed is better than him dieing with hope that smogh will make it?
King Fancy so Ornstein being killed by some random invader isn’t a terrible way for his story to end?
Is an illusion, instead, Smough is real, and is the only Knight left in Anor Londo, even if he has never become one of the Knights of Gwyn.
I believe thats why Ornstein cares so much Smough.
Well let's imagine ornstein in dark Souls 1 is real... Is his soul being absorbed through the weapon of his rival/companion and fighting the chosen one from within smough also not badass?
"Ornstein, take the last of my hamon"
chest ahead
IDENTITY THEFT!
I think that the Old Dragonslayer was either a reincarnation of Ornstein, or simply another Dragonslayer wanting to either copy or honor the image of Ornstein.
Personally I believe despite his rather disgusting habits and sadism enough was a decent person, the reason he callously smashes ornstein is out of respect for him, assuming the illusion theory is true he might have seen the illusion as a cheap mockery of a man he respected, the effects of the absorption on them could also be a sign ornstein is an illusion smough merely gains lightning, while ornstein grow in size and even mimics one of ornsteins moves, if smough is real but ornstein an illusion it makes sense the hollow shell would be more affected and possibly even possessed by the soul of smough
also of note is ornstein is only rumored to be the captain, its possible the first born was the captain and when they erased him from history the remaining description of the 4 knights captain was of a spear wielding dragonslayer with an affinity for lightning so people assumed it was ornstein,
and one last thing to consider is that was the real ornstein, and so was the old dragonslayer, and so is the storm king, time is convoluted and we know there are different world's, perhaps each game shows different timelines one where he was slain, one where he became corrupted and one where he beat the chosen undead and then left to search for the nameless king
Agreed with the first part, even the fighting style of Ornstein's illusion changes.
Second part tho, time may be convoluted at the end of the age of fire, at least for the different chosen undeads, but there's no reason to think DS 1 and 3 have different timelines.
As for the Smough's story, Grand Cathedral can be considered ruined in the dark Anor Londo. Yes it's only abandoned, but this part of the game is unfinished anyway.
Frampt said that 1000 years has passed in DS1, and even more in DS3, yet Anor Londo looks pretty good, except this dirty Cathedral, that most likely was truly ruined after the arrival of Aldrich.
Yes unlikely but its fun to consider some Zelda ESC timeline shenanigans, plus worlds can connect temporarily as we see with solaire we could be in the right timeline but there crossing g over from another
In my opinion saying "it's just a different timeline" means "why would anything in this game have any importance, when everything is happened and not happened at the same time?".
It just diminishes the significance of any event, so I can't see the "fun" part about bringing up different worlds, when everything is explainable without it.
I mean that's kind of already a thing? Of the 3 games endings only ending the cycle in 3 has any impact in the long run, and again worlds crossover so even if we encountered another version of ornstein we could still be in the same timeline where he died in anorlondo
I understand what you're talking about, but for me DS is not just a 1 story that ends everything.
It's world may be fatalistic, with "memento mori" all over it, maybe even more so for the undead, but there's a lot of separate stories happened in the past or happening during the playthrough that you slowly learn about. With a lot of suffering mixed in, and that "is it worth it?" question.
It's not about having a conclusion and solve everything.
This picture of DS world (1 and 3) is quite thorough, it doesn't need separate timelines to be explained.
If you warp to Chamber of the Princess before killing O&S, there will be only Smough's model in the room. Even after killing Gywnevere.
E L E M E N T A L that's because ornstein drops from the balcony so he doesn't come in until the cutscenes finished
A friend of mine had an interesting idea about the old dragonslayer claiming it was Ornstein but after he had lost his faith and thus from that his ability to use lightening which is a faith based ability
He still uses occult/dark though, which is kinda faith based, too.
Silver Mont well yes but faith in something else, like 2 sides of a coin Lightening the side of the gods and occult the side of ... dark?ish? Something else
Interestingly enough, the estonian translation of Orn is typically something along the lines of fragile, soft, tender or delicate. and Stein in german means rock or stone. So maybe his name is supposed to mean Gentle Rock?
That's some pretty zen sounding name haha, I like it
Dwayne "The Gentle Rock" Johnson
That's some *THICC* lore
**E X T R A T H I C C**
Smough is quite thick. In several ways.
Im satisfied uwu
When people don't know the difference between thicc and thick smh
@@SilverMont this guy gets it
Miazaki after watching this ‘ahhh that’s how there lore fits together’
What if they are brothers??? Wouldnt that make sense? The one brother who had everything the other brother wanted? That's why we would have the violent response from smough when he kills ornstein. But the other brother doesn't have the animosity seen in smough
Aaah, the infamous Anor Londo duo fight.... *gives me coniptions*
Jokes aside, maybe Ornstein just left in search of the Nameless King, leaving an ilusion in his place created by Gwyndolin. Smough crushes this ilusion mercilesly when its defeated, implying that he maybe knows that its a fake
That seems like a pretty solid theory tbh. I'll go with this one!
And also left his soul behind? IIRC his items have shown up in other games but never his soul. Unless we take Old Dragonslayer soul to be his.
Silver Mont Wording has it as "The soul of a dragonslayer", meaning that the Old Dragonslayer may be a dragonslayer that decided to honour Ornstein by emulating his armour. Then again, in Dark Souls 2 souls have reincarnated has other beigns.
As for Ornesteins souls; could it be thta he left a fragment of his own souls like Gwyn divided his own soul?
ı think in dks3 it mentions that consuming your near deth buddy is a traditon of anor londo soldiers
@@SilverMont Maybe the illusion only could be done with a fragment of the soul. Like transpositions in Dark Souls 3. But who knows.
"Stein" is also teh German word for "stone". I also feel like Dark Souls 3 portrays an alternative universe where Ornstein left before the Chosen Undead arrived at Anor Londo.
No the one you encounter in anorlondo is an illusion its confirmed
Giratina 123 while I do think the one in DS1 is an illusion no it is not confirmed
@@decimalcross3325 It's far from being confirmed
@@frenandin it was the real Anor Londo but gwyndolin made it look better than it actually was
I’ve thought of two explanations for the apparent survival of Ornstein.
1) He died, but when the lands began to converge through time and space in DkS3 they brought their inhabitants with them, so Ornstein and Smough both came back to life.
2) We defeated Ornstein but didn’t kill him. It’s the same with the Giant Lord and Champion Gundyr- we kill defeat them but they survive to become the Last Giant and Iudex Gundyr respectively. We defeated Ornstein, he spent some time recovering, and he went off searching for the Nameless King.
Shroom Soul I don't buy it, i personally think that he was entirely an illusion in the first dark souls.
Dyelahn I just hate that idea. It cheapens the entire fight for me if I think of it as an illusion.
Yeah, whilst an illusion seems like the "logical" answer to what's going on, I'm not a huge fan of the idea, either. It's almost like those "it was all a dream!" endings where it just feels like a cop-out.
I have have had a little theory going around in my head;
We all know how in the O&S boss fight it is Smough who kills Ornstein during it, right? So, what if, after the chosen undead won the battle and walked away with Smough's soul, Ornstein's soul just dropped somewhere else and someone else revived Ornstein? (Maybe it was Nameless King, who then brought him to Archdragon Peak or sth, that would explain why his stuff is there)
Shroom Soul The way I see it, Gwyndolin is the son of Gwyn, greatness is in his blood and its power his to wield. I believe that he used part of his soul to create another soul more or less identical to Ornstein’s, and if there were any kind of bond between smough and ornstein maybe smough wouldn’t be too hesitant to smash a mere creation.
What do you make of the sacred oath in DS3. It mentions three Dragonslayers. The Sun's Firstborn, his faithful first knight, and the brave dragonslayer that served them both.
Sun's Firstborn is obviously Gwyns Firstborn.
Faithful first knight, most likely Ornstein as mentioned by Leo Ring he was first knight under Firstborn.
Who does that leave as the brave Dragonslayer?
Souls Fanatic Most likely the knight who inhabited the dragonslayer armor in DS3. But that's just a theory. ;)
There are theories that it may have been Havel
I am pretty sure it's only referring to two individuals and actually means:
"This is the tale of the Sun's firstborn - his faithful first knight, and the brave dragonslayer who served them both."
In other words, "This is the tale of Gwyn's oldest son, who was also his first knight, and Ornstein who served them both." They just worded it a little bizarrely. And when in doubt, check the Japanese description:
太陽の長子と、その筆頭騎士
そして竜狩りの剣士の物語は
最も勇壮な竜狩り譚であるという
Further suggests that's the case.
Silver Mont
Oh you know what that makes a lot of sense. However, that would imply that the Firstborn was also the "faithful first knight" to Gwyn, but the Firstborn is never referenced as such anywhere else. He is normally mentioned only as the Firstborn or as the God of War, but never as a knight. Nor was he faithful to his father, instead siding with the dragons. But if the Japanese description says so I guess I can't argue.
It almost sounds like Solaire was The Nameless King's first knight
Big boi and medium boi
Lothric one stabby boi and smashy boi
HiddenMelody Thunderboi and Hammerboi
Ornstein is big, Smough is just xxxtra big
Thicc boi and slim boi
Str boi and Dex boi
Cornstein and Smoke
AKA Pikachu and Snorlax
I like the idea that or stein is an illusion, as then it makes sense why smough is so callous when you kill ornstein first
8:55 that was a sick parry
It’s Cornstarch and Dough!
If the ornstein in ds1 is nothing more than a mere illusion i think smough smashes him out of pure respect for the real one.He would consider it a disgrace to the real ornstein, a mere illusion of the captain of the four knights, of his comrade in arms, and foremost of the man he looks up to and respects.I think ornstein was the one who inspired loyality in smough, maybe ornstein treated smough with respect and considered him a comrade while the others looked to him as nothing more than a caniball and a brute. That may have inspired loyality in smough, making him stand on watch in the cathedral long after ornstein's leave again out of respect for him.
*COME ON AND SLAM*
*AND WELCOME TO THE JAM!*
I love hearing lore about Ornston and Smee
Awesome and Smer
Remember the theory about the four unkindled characters in ds3 (sigward, hawkwood, anri and the ashen one) being reincarnated to kill their respective lord of cinder? I just had an idea that maybe Ornstein was ressurected as an unkindled to hunt down the nameless king. No, the nameless king isnt yet a lord of cinder, but i dont think anyone would argue the firstborn son of Gwyn isnt powerfull enough to link the fire.
My idea is that Ornstein tried to link the fire after Gwyn but failed and became unkindled, so he was ressurected by the same person who ressurected the other unkindled to hunt down his old friend and fighting companion, the nameless king.
I dont know, i had this idea about 20 minutes ago, so i havent thought about it much.
I like to think that the Dragonslayer armor is actually The Nameless Kings. Like The Nameless Kings has holllowed by the time we meet him. So who to say it isn't his soul still trapped in the armor reliving his glory days, perhaps Oreinstein crafted his armor in a likeness to his master's, upgrading it much like his spear. Granted that armor does not use a spear, but they(the angels?) could have just given it the biggest weapon they could find, note the axe is very makeshift looking barely bound together by leather. It also has the crest shape in the blade of the axe much like the angel knights
That's a pretty cool idea, that the Nameless King used to wear that armour haha. My current thinking was that Ornstein just led a bunch of "dragonslayers" who were effectively like silver knights but in that different armour.
Silver Mont the fact you have actually read two of my comments and even taken the time to reply to all of these comments has earned my respect. Alot of tubers seem to spam the like button on the comments for a few minutes and call it a day. Thanks man and much love
Haha, I must admit I'll hit the like button on a comment if I don't really have anything to say in response to it, just to let the person know I read it.
I really like this
@@gonzostonefist4022 you could be right. Although, if I remember correctly, Gwyn banished and discarded his first son, the Nameless king, and rewrote him out of history.
So, what if the dragon slayer armour, that Ornstein, and other dragon slayers wear, was merely to make the rewritten history seem less false?
Like, imagine telling a true story about a purely golden wolf of the mountains, but then you kill off the wolf out of spite, and replace it with wolves painted gold to retell the story to a familiar audience (the people of Anor Londo and etc) while keeping the consistency to lessen any chances of suspicion.
Since Gwyn didn't want anyone to know of his fallen first born child, as it may of ruined his reputation as the Lord of Light who challenged and won against the dragons, birthing a child into the family who ironically likes dragons and doesn't want to kill them.
Maybe Ornstein and the dragon slayer expedition are not just simply special forces dedicated to hunting and killing dragons, but also replacing the image of the Nameless king in the records of history, through wearing recreations of his armour?
Excellent video, really enjoyed how thoroughly you explored this enigmatic character
Brilliant video mate
I always found it strange how Ornstein is the only one among the four knights whose name is never said aloud. Artorias’ name is said by Andre, Alvina and every single DLC character. Gough says his own name as well as Ciaran’s. Nobody ever mentions Orns.
Anyway I say it as Orn-stine. Saying “Orn-steen” makes me think of Bruce Springsteen and I don’t want to kill the Boss.
@J.E F Yes, like Einstein.
How about the Ornstain bears?
Thunder Road, more like, Lightning Road
Your voice is hypnotic and your content is extremely insightful. Certainly found a gem here. Great stuff.
What use are assassins against dragons? I don't know, let's ask Skyrim... Oh god everything is dead. 😛
Skyrim's dragons are tiny baby wyverns though.
Silver Mont indeed they are, considering a scratch from a cat when given enough stealth bonuses can fell one instantly
Just on a design front, I think those "wyvern" style enemies look absurd. Six limbed dragons (four leg, two wings) move in such a graceful manner, compared to the spastic bat movements of four limbed (two leg, two wings/arms) kind haha
It's kind of confusing because even the wyverns in DS3 were massive compared to the ones in Skyrim. The dragons in Skyrim looked more like the dragons in Dragon Heart in size.
I will from now on call Skyrim dragons "spastic bats"
Love your videos . Great stuff.
Thanks buddy, that's always really nice to hear
Old Dragonslayer is just a reskins of our Ornstein.
The virgin dragon slayer vs. The Chad executioner
I just want to say that if Smough executed humans then he isnt a cannibal. Humans and lords are markedly different.
I suppose that's technically true. It's still pretty messed up though. If we had another race of humanoids on Earth and ate them, it might not be eating our own, but I don't think people'd be happy about it
I like to think Aldritch is a reincarnated Smough, although there’s not much evidence other than both being cannibals and the shrine maiden in Dark Souls 3 selling you Smough’s armor after you defeat Aldritch.
Karl Schweinfurth Smough might not have been a cannibal. He ate the bones of people he killed, but he seems to be a Giant and the people he killed were probably mostly Humans and Gods. Unless he ate other Giants he wasn’t a cannibal. Also reincarnation in this sense doesn’t seem to really exist in Dark Souls- the closest is the Lord Souls sticking around and finding new hosts, or Manus splitting into multiple individuals.
It seems that Aldrich probably ate Smough, rather than being a reincarnation of him.
Well that depends on how you define it ,if gods humans and giants can interbreed there the same species thechniclly, but with magic involved and cases like crossbreed Priscilla that lines pretty blurred
Smough died while defending Anor Londo from Aldritch.
Personally smough should have been aldritches host died defending the last god as he defended qwynavere and you find an injured gwyndolin where you would have found gynavere or perhaps something where you could fight by him or at least you get some assistance like Gough givesmwith kalamete
I suppose in the strictest sense of the term, we can't compare Aldrich and Smough, only in the sense that they have both consumed other "humans" in some form or another. And some might say there's a big difference between say, eating a live human being and grinding up bones into your food, haha
Perhaps Gough and Ornstein led two parts of the Dragonslayers. Gough commanded Dragonslayer Archers, while Ornstein commanded Dragonslayer Spearmen. Just a thought
Just at the 3/4 mark in a dks1 playthrough right now with one of my friends. He's enjoying it way more than his previous but anyway it's hard switching between the smoothness of the 1st and 3rd games, hopefully the remaster is gonna be smooth as ice.
Some better Ornstein etymology facts: Surnames ending in stein are typically Ashkenazi Jewish ones. Leo Ornstein was a Russian Jew, although stein names are typically found among German Jews, like Albert Einstein. Stein means stone, and was part of a place name last name system like Solaire of Astora being called Solaire Astora. Although I can't find anything on what the "orn" part means. Leo Ornstein birth name is best transliterated as Lev Ornshteyn, which I feel also answers the pronunciation question. And that way it rhymes will all of the other stein names in the real world that way.
the Ornstain bears
Come on and slam and welcome to the jam
Come on and slam if you want to jam!!!!!!!!!
4:58-5:03 is my favorite segment of any cinematic
That art is sick
I believe the armor-style of Ornstein is given to only the highest ranking dragonslayers who roughly use the same technique in fighting, though because there were so few of them, and due to his fame; Ornstein became the most well known to wear this armor and it is assumed that it is unique to him.
Thanks for the upload. Just fought them for the first time today!
Just in time to compare with the remaster, huh?
Silver Mont exactly. I want to experience the original version before the remastered
So who's gonna win in a fight between ornstein the dragon slayer vs dovakin the dragon born
Risk to rise or even better, Ornstein vs Kain Highwind.
Who would win in a fight between Ornstein the dragon slayer and Shrek the ogre?
Ornstein, he's got better powers, physical strength and speed, and a spear that would go further than any of the dragonborn's weapons. Open and shut
Orn-steen anyone? None of this orn-stine stuff smh. I'm a Ornstein Stan btw
Ornstein vs Estinien, now *there's* an appropriate matchup.
I really love your videos about lore of dark souls
Thanks!
I feel the exact same way. Dark Souls and really all FromSoft games are so special to me because of their incredibly deep yet ridiculously vague lore. There is so much attention to detail, a completely unique style, and a darker more serious but beautiful aspect to it all that I just fell in love with. Particularly DS1 and Bloodborne.
FromSoftware and the teams behind the company deserve all of the success they've come into with these games and I hope they continue to make them for a long time
Regarding the split as to whether Ornstein stayed with Smough, or went to search for NK, I believe he did both, with no assistance from convoluted timelines. Gwyn split his soul and gave them to the talented and loyal, Ornstein one of them. I believe this process can be replicated by any with a fragment of Gwyn's soul, making it possible for Ornstein to both stay and go. Ornstein would split his soul in half, keeping one for himself, and the other for Gwyndolin. the fragment given to Gwyndolin was given a body to use, via illusion, but the soul would be in control, effectively splitting Ornstein into two. So we do defeat and kill the real Ornstein in Anor Londo, yet at the same time, he would live and find NK, and become his Stormdrake.
Pikachu and Snorlax
6:50 I really want to meet one of these people lol
Smough = smuff
Also Ornstein is a Germanic name, and in German the "ei" makes an I sound and "ie" makes an E sound. So, the more ya know.
I did find it funny when first playing through Dark Souls to realize that the first game is essentially your being inducted into the fight against darkness / succeeding Gwyn.
Isn't it sad? The only person who cares about your well-being is uh... probably Laurentius.
don't care if dark souls is over and been out for a while. I still am hungry for more lore discussion. JSF has been working with Sinclair Lore and to hear his voice go over Soulsborne stuff again has rekindled my lore love like they are my Lords of Cinder. Well Silver Mont we welcome you age of fire and I hope the sun shines on this Lord of Cinder as you rekindle love for the lore also.
Smough liked to eat, Aldritch liked to eat. Loyalty earned.
Plot twist: Pontiff is Smough (ironically I´m half-serious)
But Pontiff is skinny
Here's what I think happened, smough and ornstien are real, but the chosen undead defeated ornstien first, then smough as he was the last night to guard the cathedral. It is very possible that since we don't get ornstien's soul he might have survived then fled. Maybe after seeing the fall of anor londo and the old gods he decides to seek out the nameless king, his old master and freind, making his way to forrosa, maybe making other dragon slayer knight followers modeled after him, just like havel, as we do get lots of references to dragonslaying and lions from that land. Perhaps one of these knights was possessed by the abyss, was defeated in a blue sentinel church, then came back and back and back, eventually going to lothric to hunt dragons, idk just a side thought . Anyways he eventually does find his old freind, joins the dragon covenent, and after hundreds or thousands of years being a dragon hybrid, becomes the stormdrake
Quick take theory:
In ds1 you fight the illusion of ornstein but the real smough. This is done because ornstein leaves his soul to go find the nameless king. This is why smough kills ornstein before he dies so that he can attempt to claim that powerful soul where as ornstein doesnt rush as it is a quick power up to him. Also ornstein abandons his leo ring because he abandoned his post.
In ds2 we see the corrupted actual ornstein as on hus travels looking for the nameless king ge became corrupted and hence why he uses dark magic. We can assume the armour had changed due to wear and tear and modifications ornstein made himself.
Finally in ds3 the dragon armour you face is simply a twisted image created by the dwindling first flame. As stated in other theories tge fact the first flame has been rekindled many times past its best before use date has started to change the world so it would only make sense that we would see a twisted image of ornsteins armour being animated and made to fight us
crysis shadow 7 everything makes sense except for the fact that you can find orenstiens armour after the nameless king fight
Maybe he has more armor i mean he problaby did a lot of fight
Stein means "stone" in German and it's very common for Germans surnames, especially the older ones, to use it. And since we have seen a lot of usage for German/germanic terms in Dark Souls, I Think you should have gone with the German Term. It would also oppose the pronounciation of "Ornsteen" as we Germans say "Stein" and Not "Steen"
I've always said "Stein" as opposed to Steen, but I felt referencing the Japanese spelling was useful because it's a phonetic spelling.
As someone who just today finally got past these two (first time playing the game) I’m unsure how to feel about the fact i got bested 50 times by a duo who may have been an illusion...
More so a glamour than an illusion, I think. But who knows!
@@SilverMont oh okay :3
Big Mac and little mac
Anyone else a Ornstein (orn-steen) Stan?
Bigge and Smalls
WAIT A SECOND
killing ornstein and smough cannot be cannon in both orders! Smough being the "last at his post" tells me that ornstein fell first. But we are never told explicitly that smough is powered up by the soul of *the* ornstein.
from a video i have watch if you put Leo Ornstein it goes from a musician named Leo Ornstein that is what i watch and understood and that was a long time ago and i don't remember the videos name but think is more of a Easter Egg from the historical musician named Leo Ornstein
It's entirely possible someone at From was a fan of his works
Your voice is so god damn relaxing.
Hopefully not to the point it makes your bowels relax and cause horrible events
I like to call them mario and sonic
But which is which?
O is super sonic and S is Mario when he has the hammer ability
Good vid Alex(sorry if u don't like being called that) question do u think ornstien became the Strom drake because he was looking for him
Alex is probably the best thing to call me!
The latter seems to make more sense to me being the Nameless King having forsaken his father, and therefore if Ornstein forsook the soul "gifted" onto him by Gywn and following after, would have followed in his footsteps.
its pretty obvious to me that smough is an ogre, just look at the armor, the size of him and the fact that he eats humans.
Like the ones in DaS2?
My best guess is that Ornstein left at some point before the Chosen Undead arrived, but split his soul with the help of Gwyndolin, from this Gwyndolin creates an illusion/clone of Ornstein to guard Anor Londo. It makes the most sense considering his "appearance" in Dark Souls 3.
Also, are we 100 percent sure that Dark Souls 3 chronologically takes place after 2? Since in Dark Souls 2 the original souls reappear in a different form. I find it hard to believe they then appeared AGAIN, normally this time, and had their memories of 2 lives ago.
We're not 100% sure, but I think it's heavily implied, from the Dark Souls II items that make an appearance in III.
Worth pointing out, I think, is that there's a difference between Smough not being "ranked with the Four Knights," as the item description states, and not being a "knight" at all--after all, Gwyn has a crapton of "knights" in his service: Silver Knights, Black Knights, etc. So that description is not inconsistent with the DSIII item claim that he was the last "knight" to guard the cathedral. It just means that had Smough not been a disgusting cannibal, then maybe we'd be talking about the Five Knights of Gwyn.
Personally, I go with the theory that Ornstein left Anor Londo prior to DSI, that he left his soul behind (Gwyn gave the thing to him, so we know it's not bound to his body the way we think of souls in other contexts), and Gwyndolin used that soul to create the illusion that fights alongside (the real) Smough. Perhaps he left his soul as a symbolic gesture when he left to pursue the Nameless King. Or perhaps it was the price demanded by Gwyndolin to allow him to leave.
As for the Old Dragonslayer, I rather like your theory that he was just another Dragonslayer, one who eventually fell to the Dark, one of the forces that followed Nameless and Ornstein, no doubt. Here's where the DS sequels' habit of hinting around the names of characters from previous games instead of directly calling them out helps; it's a lot easier to harmonize the games in this way when it's not straight up saying that OD is Ornstein instead of him just being a guy wearing nearly identical armor.
I always liked the idea that Smough just never got to become a knight, until everyone else had abandoned Anor Londo, and then Gwyndolin or someone was like "Sure, you can be a knight." But yeah, you're right. It's possible he was knighted just not one of the elite four.
Does anyone know the name of the weapon he's using in the Ornstein & Smough boss fight?
Silver Knight Straight Sword
Chopstick and dumpling.
Smoughdge
Ornstein is named after the composer
Maybe only one of them is an illusion? I mean you only get one soul after you defeat them, and it's the soul of whoever you defeated last. So maybe this is some kind of way to choose in a playthrough who is the real one. This is just speculation, I have no idea if it's true.
Old Dragonslayer could be a student of Ornstein. Ornstein could have created the Dragon Covenent with The Nameless King. This could be like a school for Dragonslayers. But for learning how to keep and ride dragons
Stein can mean stone. To adorn stone. ie. to elevate it.
And he was good at stabbin' dragons made of stone
What a attractive, relaxing voice. This content is amazing!!!
Well I hope you enjoy it, there's plenty more!
Something to point out from experience with Germanic languages, mainly Old Norse and Icelandic - Ornstein might mean Eagle Stone in some Germanic languages.
Is there a similarity between the ruined nameless king statue's feet and the feet of the statues in the old dragonslayer boss arena? Not sure if this has been covered yet. You can see the similarities in this video.. maybe Ornstein found some un-desecrated statues and is protecting them?
The statues in Heide are vaguely Gwyn-like in nature, yeah. And Nameless King borrows a lot of design elements from his pa.
And maybe one could hypothesize that the giant guardians of the Anor Londo cathedral may have followed the Old Dragonslayer, once Smough was in charge of the place?
They are ancient beings in Ds2, and have brittle old armor.. Maybe that explains the 'Ruined Cathedral' in Ds3. Not ruined per se but ruined by the presence of not one but two cannibals who had maybe desecrated the so called sanctity of Anor londo.. cheers for the reply dude. Your work is great!
The most famous, not the most infamous boss
u know that thing with diferent worlds? like in ds3 u can kill one fantom few times but in diferent world and iam not talking about multiplayer.
So in ds3 lion boi left his guard and gone to dragoin boi
Maybe I’m a filthy casual, but from my observation of the nameless king and the dragon covenant, I think the story of Ornstein is sort of like that of Oceiros. Oceiros tried to become eternal and attempted to mimic the ancient dragons, but turned out how Seath did, although he did reach some success. I believe that Ornstein left his post in search of Gwynn’s first born, upon finding him, Ornstein joins his cause in his loyalty to Gwynn’s first born. Due to the path of the dragon looking to be that of becoming an ancient dragon since there’s rows upon rows of stone humanoid dragons, Ornstein’s path would not be to turn into an ancient dragon, but to serve Gwynn’s first born (or something around that) Another thing I found was that the mount of the nameless king has a face that bears similarities to Ornstein’s head piece. I’m not a lore master and I’m still looking over all of this though.
Specifically, it seems Oceiros was obsessed with Seath (instead of dragons as a whole) which is interesting, considering Seath's... proclivities.
Silver Mont gosh dang it I just said dragons instead of seath didn’t I. It was late for me, but what I meant to say was that he tried to turn into Seath for his knowledge and him being a dragon or something. Sorry about that one.
Do you have any lore on the balder and baranic knight that show up after you plunge anor Londo into twilight
There's nothing about them specifically, only what we know about Balder and Berenike knights in general.
Silver Mont sad face
Aldritch ate people and turned into sludge, so maybe Smough was just sludge in the armor.
In an art concept he actually looks very muscular
It's also possible that Smough was called "sumo" in development as a funny placeholder until they came up with a better name, but it stuck and/or they couldn't come up with anything better so they altered it slightly and ran with it.
I could believe it
I like smof more XD
It would be soo cool if Leo Ornstein would compose the Ornstein and smogh boss song!!!
Had he lived another ten years, he might've managed it
+Silver Mont yah I wasn't aware he died before I put this Comment down until I looked him up. But it would have been sooo cool!!
Actually in Smoughs character design models its shown that hes not fat and that he has thicc armour
Oresten and Smoughy
I think it would be good to mention that the silver knights inn ds3 suddenly use lighting while in ds1 they don't and how the spear silvers use orns moves could it be he trained them? Who now's that's the beauty of dark souls
I think they were always supposed to use it, as we see a bunch of lightning spears in the DaS1 intro, they just never used it in the actual gameplay etc
Silver Mont it would be more accurate for the knights to use lighting Spears but they decide not to I guess
Isn't the chained prisoner guarding a ruined Cathedral in infected Oolacile?
If timeline is correct then can it be him?
Hmm, I guess it could be a cathedral, it's a weird building
Manus is actually pronounced as Maa-nuu-s . His name is Latin, and Latin has rough soundings. Another example is the name Caesar in Greek you would say See-sar, in Latin proper Kai-sar. Anyway love the video.
I got into a big argument with someone about that a while back, the whole Kaiser/Kaisar thing. They refused to believe me even when I kept showing them evidence lol
Silver Mont Yeah I get how you feel, most people are more comfortable with the Greek style of saying Caesar. To be fair they're not exactly wrong, it's just Caesar is a Roman man, the Romans spoke Latin at the time it feels more...right to say it the Latin way in my opinion, but you can say the name however one wishes and still be understood (To a degree). ;)
I'm pretty sure their names are Pornstein and Brough
Aye bet I watched the first video when ds1 was still new and I’m gonna watch this one too
Just me who got leg cramp just before ornstein and smogh. still haven't beat it
Did the leg cramp directly stop you from beating it?
Silver Mont no it was the gank