Why North American players are GIVING UP on going PRO
Вставка
- Опубліковано 9 чер 2024
- Thanks to Perry for speaking to me about his experience. Follow him: / perryjglol
Support Travis's Content: linktr.ee/tgisupport
Follow Travis on Instagram: / travisgafford_
Follow Travis on Twitch: / travisgafford - Ігри
This is actually such an important interview that I hope people watch... even though this doesn't help provide a lot of answers (until the end), this perspective is so important for all fans of the LCS to understand so we can hopefully advocate for better conditions for T2 to help keep lolesports in NA alive.
Agreed! After the LCS teams decided to gut the NACL after its *most competitive split ever* with 16 teams, the NACL has been more about competing and less about development. With all the resources gone, development is more in the hands of the players themselves now. And currently the LCS affiliates are more of a hindrance to the NACL because ofc the team with the LCK import, the professional coach and the analyst is going to win. So to compete with the 2 remaining LCS affiliates the amateur orgs pick up already established names in the NACL rather than to develop a new player from the T3. So the T2 scene right now is killing the T3 scene because the amateur orgs can't compete with the LCS affiliates with fresh talents from the T3 scene. In a few years we're probably going to have a player talking about how the T3 scene is dead lol.
yeah, it's important but it's too late, unfortunately, the damage of not having academy is done
Amazing interview!!! Travis and his guest both brought insightful and interesting information to the table about the state of the League in LCS and all its sub categories. Thanks guys!!!! ❤
I don’t think people really understand how tiny a national occupation with only 40 slots is. A person is statistically more likely to become a state senator or Marine Corps general than to become an LCS player. Trying to get into the LCS is an objectively horrendous career decision and there’s nothing you can do to change that outside of drastically increasing the number of teams
not to mention it's not just the US, it's canada and select OCE players too
@@mayachun7778 And then add on top of that the many Chinese and Korean imports that take slots by default because they're from stronger regions.
Um duh? It shouldn’t be a “good life decision” to be a pro of any sport you do it for the love of the game. Dudes that don’t make it to the nba play in China or the euro league for the chance to one day get into the us league. If the league doesn’t make money the pros don’t make money duh. Old NA pro used to play for jack shit and could even lose their jobs altogether if they got relegated yet they are still probably some of the most revered NA players and that’s for a reason. Meanwhile NA imports like umti HAD to go to NA and uproot their whole life to an objectively inferior league bc they couldn’t get success in their home regions yet NA players don’t have to do the same?
@@Cashmoneez Don't "duh" me, "duh" the player in the video who is complaining about lack of advancement opportunities
People are complaining that they "don't know who this is", it doesn't matter. It's not about 1 player, listen to the problem's he's highlighting with the scene. This player is "The Perry in the Coalmine" (both because he's signalling some serious problems and because NACL feels like it's causing health damage for minimal pay or hope of advancement, like being a coal miner)
They don't even give a shit about who it is. People don't care to watch NACL. Like EU does for EU masters and their own regional leagues.
Just stream the game. If you’re actually good and entertaining you build your own fanbase and get all the money yourself w/o having to deal with this whole ecosystem.
Canary
@@User-pu3lc Doublelift an ex pro LCS player has actually stated that he gets more paid just by streaming on Twitch than being an LCS pro. It's absolutely crazy. At this point, all pros should just stream lol
@@peytonsmith1062 Except a lot of the viewership for LoL pros have been falling off a cliff. Even DL viewership numbers have dwindle hard.
NA scene dying off is a product of the way the scene has been managed. I used to watch LCS but I've only watched LCK for the last couple years, and now I've totally lost interest in the LCS. For the reasons stated in this interview, LCS hasn't managed to facilitate the growth of homegrown talent, if there's more players being imported than there are coming up through CL, what is there to be a fan of in NA? LCK has full bottom tier teams of 17-18 year old kids, with CL teams under them fighting to be brought up.
The reason NA isn't competitive is because there basically is nothing driving competition from the bottom up. Even when a rookie gets to the LCS, orgs are so impatient they'd rather bench them after one split instead of letting them develop. We used to have relegation tournaments in the LCS for this reason. There are other reasons why NA falls short internationally, at the very least other regions retain their regional pride (VCS, LLA etc..) supporting homegrown talent is dead in NA. The removal of Academy requirement was the final nail in the coffin for NA.
It’s almost like when teams favor imports over native talent and riot guts amateur/challenger it encourages up and coming talent to pursue other things. Shocking! I totally didn’t see that coming!
It's great hearing from another promising NACL talent giving up bc there is no road to pro in NA
i think it's part of a bigger problem with the whole NA scene seeming to die off. check out LCK finals and compare to LCS finals. it's such a sad comparison.
Also they suck. If it was like OWL the amount of NA pros would be 5 at max and that's being generous.
With how much has been gutted from academy I honestly expected a worse description of it. I think the biggest issue is the lack of native signings until very very recently when all the $$$ dried up.
Thank you Travis for creating content like this. It's great to have longer interviews like this to listen to while working, commuting, napping in my recliner, etc. Thank you also to Perry! I watched a lot of his games in NACL and I hoped he would make it to the LCS one day.
Ive honestly felt like the 8 team change is a disaster, like its nice to skip the dig v imt type snoozer match ups, but the reason those matches always sucked was because of disinterested management buying out big name imports and then surrounding those players with uninspired poorly constructed rosters with no focus or goals other then "win LCS" Like C9 showing in several seasons that their academy team was better then bottom teir teams always made me feel like LCS could be 12 teams and be interesting and competitive, So many good academy players just get cooked waiting for their turn at the big leagues, how the hell is a rookie supposed to ever be worlds ready if they spend 6 years playing the minor leagues un able to get a contract with a team that would rather spend on past their prime imports. Like just look at mid na pool, for years it was just everyone who is not jensen or bjerg is mid, now we have jojo, APA, palafox, like all these mid talents that back in 2014-2020 dident even get a shot because like Froggen or febivan cant get jobs in Europe and everyone wants the next bjerg instead of developing a talent.
Great Interview. Really sheds light on the absolute monstrosity of a situation that the NACL/LCS has become and is headed more towards. Never knew about half of the info that was discussed in this video and am grateful that we even have/had players like Perry. Just an extremely unfortunate situation all around for everyone involved.
Thanks for doing this interview, Travis! Always appreciate the people you select to help bring clarity and insight to these things!
My pleasure!
Academy/Lower league/junior is necessary for any sport org to thrive. Different part is that usually it’s the parents paying for all the junior stuff which I don’t see happening soon for video games.
I’m pogged for this interview
League in the states had its run. It was a good one and was fun while it lasts, but its time to accept the fact it's over. The games been out for 14 years... so it was a long one too. Time to move on with life and other games. Saying this as a 10+ year vet.
NA did this to itself you import then have rules if they stay long enough they resident. So now you have europeans and koreans with residency. So Less NA players.
Also being awful internationally and putting in less hours because of "mental health" despite getting a 4 month vacation.
Man, you are very good giving interviews, phasing and everything is needed. Congrats!.
I appreciate all you do for North American aspiring players Travis
I understand the academy system isnt in a good place and promotion into lcs is next to impossible. But im also hearing him say the few players who are exceptionally better than the other players, have been moved into lcs. The game has always been about having the best. Why should teams move up players who arent showing that extra promise? Lets take Contractz for example, went down into academy, and smurfed on people. So he gets picked back up. If this guy wanted to get picked up, why was he not smurfing on people. Being middle of the pack wont do North American teams any good?
Travis back on his G shiz, let’s go Travis, this is what I’m here for!! ❤❤❤
Good interview Trav!
I've never watched Perry play, but he comes across as really intelligent. Sucks to lose another prospect from the scene, damn
Fr, heard about him for a couple years and now he’s gone
I really do have so much respect to the grind lords that keeps my favorite sport alive thank you to all out there who wants to defy the odds and make it to academy or LCS
I really enjoyed the interview!
C9 importing a top laner instead of taking on Licorice is criminal.
Thought it was IWD for a second
i see it
good interview, best of luck perry.
This is quite equivalent to, looking for a job and everywhere you go they’re asking for years of experience when you have very little or none.
Maybe it could have something to do with culture, I’ve always been told the rhetoric “Asian companies prefer long term investment over short term like NA”, and notice that Korea had trainees long before the academy system.
i think it's more that the scene is just much better developed in korea. there's more money (for the companies) and the darker side of pro gaming in korea is that trainees are barely paid and they're basically risking their futures to try their hand at going pro.
i'm sure the scene would seem a lot healthier here if the trainees were cool with being paid like interns.
Eye opening work Travis! Feels bad, but understandable.
Commenting for the algorithm! Keep up the great work Travis :)
I thought Perry was very well spoken and discussed the issues very clearly and promptly. Very good interview overall. Hoping the best for him and those striving to be the best at this game in terrible situations.
League wise, NA's problem isn't primarily about players but management&staff. If it was a player issue, NA would have already gotten good results since they always yoink the latest worlds winners. Import coaches and better management people and not players.
Honestly this makes me wish lcs would drop import slots to 1
Love Perry, great interview! Let’s hope teams and riot actually start caring about the sustainability of the scene.
Honestly why go pro in a region that instantly replaces you with an import because they won a world championship and they now want to retire? or the fact NA has not made it deep into worlds since the C9 group that sneaky was in as every team who does claims that they are "going to try real hard to do something next year" and goes even further down the list? honestly i wouldn't be surprised if NA could even make it out of the first stage where all the minor regions get eliminated at this point either this year or the next
Why not just add more teams to LCS? There have been expansions throughout every successful sporting entertainment platform. The NFL expanded 3 or 4 times. The NBA and the ABA merger and some others I'm sure. It would make sense to expand if the main focus is competing on the World Stage. Which is what would be the biggest endorsement of LCS.. There is almost no way I can believe there isn't enough money behind this to make it happen. I'm not there so idk, but I imagine 4 or 6 or 8 more teams wouldn't be impossible. That would give 20 or 30 or 40 new players a chance to blossom on the biggest stage. Sounds like a dream.
The inability to connect with your teammates make it no better than “Clash” tournaments. You’ve got your internet friends, a simple superficial connection most likely without the ability to truly talk it out. It sounds like a terrible environment to grow. Then you make a team and you’re forced to live with teammates, but you might need a longer acclimation period for face-to-face conversations, reviews, critiques. I enjoy watching league and it’s easy to look past the path these players had to traverse to get there. It’s sad to see the current state of the amateur scene
Thank you for this wonderful coverage Travis! Look at you travis, not even a player but you already have a tcg card
Sad to hear this I've been hearing about Perry here and there in streams over the years, nothing but good things are said about him, I was hoping he would get his shot one day to see what the hype was about.
Man, cubby has officially changed him… smh, rip to TGI
Sad that another potential NA pro has left. In addition to some of the points Perry brought up (like teams not giving NA rookies a proper chance) I think some fans can also be blamed as it feels like some are so desperate to see NA succeed that we're sometimes overly and unreasonably harsh and impatient with them, expecting greatness/perfection right away only to flame when those unreasonable expectations inevitably fall flat. I'm not saying they don't deserve criticism when they mess up, just that frequently flaming them with insults & the like solves nothing.
As for the teams yes it's nice that some are giving some rookies a chance & more should do that & keep doing it, but I'm starting to wonder how much is it actually teams legitimately wanting to give one a chance and how much is it "well we have no one else available so you'll do I guess"?
As things stand it wouldn't surprise me if in the future (let's say 2035 or so) 90-100% of team spots are occupied by imports with any NA players getting forever ignored in favor of foreigners (nothing against foreigners as a whole). How you may ask? Simple:
1. Import foreigner (let's call them GodamI).
2. Have them spend 2+ years in NA to get their green card.
3. Once GodamI gets their green card have them take a non-foreigners place on the team.
4. Repeat 1.
Don't believe me? Then look at the Overwatch League where the vast majority of players on almost all teams were Koreans (57% in S6 alone, the next highest being 21% (19 and 2 for US & Canada respectively) for NA). Granted OWL had no import rule to my knowledge but still though.
Finally Riot can help by actually practicing what they preach & legitimately supporting the rookie scenes rather than giving empty promises like they've been doing. They also need to crack down on & punish the orgs who refuse to properly pay their players, as orgs like that have no place in LoL or esports.
Man I started giving up on NA when Huni got his 8th team and I completely gave up with Summit played on Liquid. If GMs/teams are going to do that, it's obvious they would never improve as a region.
I am doing my duty and commenting for potential algorithm nonsense - this is such an important interview
Insane stuff
Who is this player? His name isnt mentiones in the title or description.
He says Perry in the first 10 seconds. He was the jungle for DSG most recently.
Trading cards for amateur is by far the stupidest idea I’ve ever heard for trying to monetize.
Better than nothing, anyways. Imagine having the Amateur Blaber card, would definitely hold some value. Shiny cardboard will always have a market.
@@moonfish817 I mean it’s not better than nothing. It’s a waste of time and resources that could go towards producing actually solutions for monetization.
Its just too expensive for LCS teams. I dont understand why RIOT doesnt move it to another location (academy) or make the Academy only online and just the tournaments offline.
I enjoy this series a lot, Dan.
I tend to not care about certain specialty cups, like this most recent jungle cup. If I don’t care about the cup, I won’t watch. That’s not a you problem, that’s a cup interest problem.
That being said, if you could put out one of these mini summaries on Pokémon every few days, I’d tune into every single one.
Rly feel bad for this guy and others who were affected by the academy requirement being dropped. If the pipeline to LCS wasn't working with the requirement, how can anyone expect it to work without it?
And owners want a 3rd import slot. Lul
They should do na academy type style in chesp state near Illinois
With teams living nearby
Travis Gafford, I really liked this video! I subscribed too!
good shit men
I think having so many splits and basically matches all the time is bad for esports. It gets boring faster
I worry that part of the problem is Riot owns the “sport” and the league it is played in. For instance, nobody owns American Football; so, new leagues and arise when there is a gap in the market e.g. XML/UFL. These leagues can serve Academy (the equivalent of minor league in traditional sports) players and be financially viable. However, these leagues compete with the mainstream leagues for viewership. Riot doesn’t want more competition; therefore, they aren’t going to let an outside org run a league. Yet, they aren’t going to run an academy league themselves. It’s a concerning long-term eco system.
Good luck to Perry!
Riot never wanted LCS/NA to succeed.
I think LeagueNA has more competition in NA. The size and pop of the server as well. Furthermore, they were unable to cultivate personalities worth keeping people interested in League.
I'm just saying - not that it isn't an issue - but isn't this pretty similar to like farm league baseball? And there is a whole lot more money in that system, right?
hey where do i sign up to give my life away for an org to train and mold me how they want lol
I mean besides the few academy players that had success in LCS there wasn't much success from it. Some had some good performance for a short time and then were gone. Though i do agree teams don't take enough risk, but then again teams are losing money.
Yah, adding back 2 amaturer teams to lcs would be amazing. Where the players are payed minimum salaries, but when players are taken up, the amateur org gets a big pay out. and if a player isn’t doing well, just send them back down. Like base ball leagues. And so what if they go 2-10. Would be awesome to see hungry players trying their all, and it wouldn’t hurt franchises. And the amateur players get stage time, and it makes a fun under dog narrative. And make a rule, no imports. I feel like oce and Canada are fine though.
he looks like a younger dom
AlgoRhythmmmmm
One of the biggest issues to overcome in becoming a pro LCS player is the fact that there are 8 (down from 10) players that have proven themselves, and they're most likely not going away anytime soon, excluding 1 or 2 here or there. I'm not sure there is a way that doesn't threaten those 8 players' careers. The revolving door of LCS players isn't revolving (and when it does, it revolves with the same players) and that makes it feel impossible to become one. In order to solve this issue, the league simply needs more teams. Not just 2 more; more like 12 more. And before someone rudely comments that I am a completely delusional moron (I write this fully expecting this to still happen), I realize that will likely never occur, I'm just stating what really needs to happen for that revolving door to start revolving.
sad i was really hyped for perry to go to LCS after seeing him on Tobias Fates team lol
I hate liking this vid, because of the reality of the situation, but it's a must watch if you're invested in NA lol
I think it’s the org, they don’t want to put a lot of effort into academy. Bring up the players adding new fresh blood, it’s a lot risk. For the org, Especially when it comes to revenue.
It's so sad how NA LCS has developed. It feels like Riot doesn't care anymore.
Super sad to hear this point of view especially from someone like Perry, I just think it’s crazy that this is the state of Academy and the players
If riot cares about na at this point i dont think they do they need to all in on colleges. Fund the programs at this point
Riot has gave more handicaps to NA then any other region, if any of the stuff in LCS happened in other regions they probably shut down already,
is the studio slanted?! jk but seriously check your horizon lines
w perry
Is any other region importing this many people? Is it even helpful that we are?
...China?
EU stopped importing and thought they "fixed it" but realize that just stacking all the best native players to two single teams means the region was not actually good at all. Then they realize they were actually dog shit in the game and had to import again.
Welp it is what it is
I think the old guys boomer reflexes gatekeep way too long
If you think about it there are only 24 spots for NA pros in the lcs and the amount of time you have to dedicate to even get a shot. Easy to see why people would not bother.
Theres no way this dude works a 70 hrs week lmao what a joke
Zven talked about when he was in C9 Academy when he was benched, he said he played 1 (sometimes 2) scrim blocks 4 days a week, 2 BO1 official games that were online, then you could do whatever you wanted for the rest of the time. And keep in mind every academy player at that time was making LCS/LA minimum, no wonder the teams wanted to get rid of their teams since it was just a money pit with no upside.
it may be a stretch but just like politics, big money shouldn't really belong in sports because people think they can just use money to buy wins, like how corporations buy politicians who push for laws. It ruins the integrity of the sport and also not to mention the whole T1 being ddoss'd thing being heavily influenced by esports gambling websites. It's really sad how most of those in power make these decisions. unfortunarely the sport is a commercialized videogame, it can't exclude big money because that was the point of commercialization, people watch pros play the game, people get excited, people see new skins being showcased, people are impressed by pro player talent, people watch more league, content, play more league content, buy more league content, riot makes profits. shame but thats what happened to mainstream sports too.
So the team’s didn’t find value in having a farm team. Sounds like it’s poor management on the team’s end from both long term planning, talent cost/management and sales.
The risk for riot and sponsors to invest into NACL or anything of the like just isnt worth it. Theres basically little to no reward, yeah you get the occasianl good player who will be decent in NA but that doesnt really do much eachother cause NA will always be bad on international stages.
Also nobody wants to watch NACL cause most players are just bad, why would you wanna watch semi pro of any sport or competition when you can just watch the pro scene.
Great interview. while it is disheartening to hear the realities of players trying to go pro, I would rather young players have a realistic expectation of what the grind looks like
Travis you should definitely introduce who your interviewing or at least include this guys name in the title or description! I still have no idea who this guy is even after watching half the video.
Literally the first 10 seconds of the video.
@@TravisGafford Thanks, After refreshing I see that now. Weird that the video started at around 0:16 before refreshing.
TLDR: Franchising was the beginning of the end. Bring back promotion/relegation with specific rules around rosters
Good interview, sad state of affairs. There’s really no hope for NA as a region if there is no intelligible/sustainable path to pro.
The best interview you've done all year. Travis weren't you going to add a link for him?
The more and more you hear about pro esports you see how bleak it really is. Money drying up, limited spots, terrible promotion opportunities etc.
Hey travis
Wait, he lost his Alienware sponsor... why?
Just compare lck finals to lcs
teams like IMT and DIG should get rid of their imports and just hire the good amateur talent
Rito pls
Monkass
Becoming a pro league of legends player is as competitive as becoming a pro athelete for the NFL, but with a fraction of the pay.
NFL is like LCK, LCS is basically like idk CFL or some other random counties football league
LCS finals had 4 NA players. Imports are so bad
Probably best not to take jobs form the bottom end lcs team as well because they will just bring you down
I think its much easier to support these scenes in eastern economies. Us is just real tough to make this kind of thing work without (maybe insignificant to some) significant economic and/or life/resume support like there is in traditional sports.
As a fan. Yes, failing on a national stage has made me drop the league entirely. No point in watching constant failures.
Algorithm!
Why try to become pro when orgs are just gonna sign a non-name 18yo LCK/LPL academy prodigy, an established LEC players for a single split, or an LCS has been who’s been stuck on their academy roster for years
Honestly, was going pro ever worth it? A couple big pay days to have negative job experience in real life
The closest that NA ever came to winning Worlds was back when they didn’t have imports. NA will NEVER win worlds until they have an identity. Even then, who knows. So why spend tons of money on imports that won’t win you worlds? Just spend the money on NA players and make them the best in the world.
Closest NA came to winning worlds they had a European mid laner and before that Korea and China didnt have a pro scene