it's way better for everyone who isn't a chatterbox extrovert like prime. he's exactly the kind of guy that gets shit done while interrupting everyone else with his out loud thoughts
I love remote work i am NEVER going back in the office. I am even more productive tjan in the office because i have a room to myself with a 4k screen where i work without any distractions.
Return to office mandates started when the economy started dropping and companies needed to find a way to lay off swathes of people quickly. I’ve worked remotely since 2020 for a couple of companies and communication /collaboration has not been an issue at all. Everytime we got together in person, we did so little work and mostly wasted time. Anyone who isn’t doing well remotely, is gonna go awful in person. If you are motivated enough to work, you will find a way to make whatever situation work and adapt. I’ve yet to hear any good argument for return to office that hasn’t been just a vibes thing by people who were only motivated when they had the pressure of seeing others working.
Effective remote work is a skill. I work IT for a non-tech company. Our employees just seem to learn our systems better in the office, mostly because they’re more willing to call across the cubicle and ask for my help than they would working remotely.
@@funkdefied1 that’s again the motivation thing. If you hire people who care about working this job, they won’t have an issue asking questions or for your help regardless of where they are
@@playea123 that depends on the person. In my case, I prefer to ask question in person, as I found people gives a lot more information talking than chatting. Also, they tend to gossip more about office politics. In a company controlled chat or mail people is more careful.
@@tychoides that speaks to my point about people not developing the requisite skills/ adapting to the circumstances. During covid when you couldn’t work in the office, did you get no/low quality work done? If you ask someone a question over chat and they don’t answer it exactly, why don’t you ask them follow up questions and bring it up to your manager if they aren’t being helpful/ doing their part of the work by answering your questions? Are you asking clear, concise questions? Are you clarifying if there is a misunderstanding? I don’t get this complaint at all. Are you bringing up less gossiping as a con to remote working? Why would a company not want that?
@@playea123 just to clarify things, I believe is as productive at home as in office, or even more. Only managers think otherwise. Any inefficiency in working with other people is compensated by being able to work without distractions and not having to commute. Again I stand to my point some people collaborate great online only, other people don't. Also there is people that don't have a good environment for work at home. So I think that should be the employee choice, and employer should offer different choices.
I generally enjoy Prime but he's always had a shit take on this issue that's hypocritical IMO. He's had so many rants about his time working and living in San Francisco and how awful every aspect of it was (COL, commute, et cetera). He kept the bay area salary and moved away *specifically* to a low COL area. Which is the sane choice anyone would make if afforded that opportunity. To see him then argue against remote work being good is baffling.
I’ve been remote since I switched careers into tech in 2022, never had an issue with anything honestly. People slack off remotely just like they would in-office, and other work even better remotely bc the lack of distraction.
It's a matter of commuting. I just bought a house 2 hours from the nearest city in my country Chile, Santiago. Santiago is the ONLY city that concentrates most of IT jobs and most office jobs in general of lots of industries as well. The city is colapsing because everything is centralized here, traffic is awful, crime rate is rising and the housing is bad because if you want to buy/rent something near to office jobs the only thing available is tiny apartments, same thing that happened to Japan, so is that or going outside the city if you want a decent house and a decent quality of life, so I did that. For me going to the office is losing 4 hours DAILY of the free time that already have, and it's not a thing that I just went far from the city because I wanted to, I feel that I was forced to do that in order to give a better quality life to my family, there was not other choice really. If things were different and I could buy a house in the city 30 minutes on bike to the office, sure thing I would drop home office.
enshitification is something i relate to. the entire energy around software engineering is so weird rn - either it's about money or creating your own tech startup or switching jobs or having some freaking very niche deep knowledge so you are perceived as a chad.
I currently working in a place that need to be done in office part of the time (for security reasons and better connectivity) . So I understand that remote work is not for all people, is a perk of certain jobs. There is remote work but I prefer to go to the office as I have no fix office time so I can go whatever time I like, so I escape the rush hour.Also, I prefer to interact with people in person. Such a boomer. But if I have fix hours I would just do remote work for my remaining time., Traffic the bane of sanity.
I like having the social environment of an office, and this is a con from remote work. But my god, the amount of pros simply crush the cons. If I had to move to Chicago to work with my current salary I would gladly jump off a window. Workers and businesses gain a lot from this, it's quite obvious to me.
Are we just at the point now where "Enshitification" will just be used for "things getting worse" instead of its actual definition/context of online services purposely getting worse to derive value from producers and consumers?
I love office work and working with people in person. However, I hate that going to the office takes at least 2 of commuting + money for gas, food that is 3x more expensive than what I make at home and meeting some unpleasent people at work
No more total a day 3.5 hour commute 6 times a week. That I either can put into more work or use as free time. The shitification started much earlier. For me became conscious about it january 2007 with the premiere of the iphone. For others it was TPM a bit earlier. From court documents it is clear that microsoft from the get go holds a certain vision that could be described as a war against general computing. Same as apple, nintendo and every arcade of the 70s. Hard to say where it began. Clearly they all fumed at the thought of Turing Completeness (TC) as they all really want TC -1 and they want to control what -1 is. It seems to be that it was always shit and now it become more and more multithreaded, automated, virtualized, vectorised and jacked up with AI shit ... but the core of it all is still shit.
RTO mandates came back swinging after we got wind of the massive drop in Commercial Real Estate Value. This is not a productivity issue, it's about control and more importantly Commercial Real Estate, don't forget that companies who have Offices of their own don't want to see the value of that asset plummet. This is a much bigger reason than "productivity" specially when companies used to hire SWE just so their competitors don't have them.
I saw one video on non competes becoming illegal and giving power back to employees and corporate needing to bend the knee to recruiters. poaching is gonna be huge if the FTC can make this happen and might shift companies to care about employees more.
I refuse anything other than 100% remote. I also refuse to negotiate pay based on being remote. You are paying me for my skills and my time. Where I am when I do those things is not a bargaining chip that I accept. Does this limit my opportunities? Not really - if anything it helps me dodge bullets constantly.
I think whether or not its better (for productivity?) can be debated endlessly, but what's not debatable is that people like to have the option and (at least in software engineering) are increasingly unwilling to put up with their bosses dictating to them how they should spend their days.
Corporate greed is definitely a problem and it is worse now, it remained the same but it progressess, that's like wandering why are things worse now? they weren't before when there was corporate greed could it be things got worse because of it? systems have a tendency to progress afterall.
The major argument over remote work is a company has to manage all the various tax laws for each state a worker is in. If all your remote workers are in California you only have to worry about California law. If Alice is in Wyoming, Bob is in Nebraska, Charlie is in South Dakota, and Daphne is in California you have to manage the taxes for each state. Generally speaking this means you need your business to operate in each respective state.
This is absolutely NOT one of Prime's best videos. Greed *does* fluctuate over time. And I'm sorry, but when you have a thoroughly immoral person at the top who is entirely transactional & willing to use the levers of power only to their own benefit, you're making a greedy, immoral culture. But besides that, the power that's available to the greedy has never been greater: citizen's united, surveillance capitalism, the regulatory/consultant revolving door, crazily bad supreme court decisions, and soon - the end of the civil servant class to be replaced by incompetent lackeys & cronies. The power of greed is on the move.
So are you seriously suggesting that companies are not maximizing profits at every given moment? Because if you do then you are wrong. This is what companies do and what they are supposed to do. Government can set limitations to it through various means but it can not remove this one principle behind this. There is no reason for private company to exist if not for profit.
@@martintvrdik1655 Quite literally. Here, the company creation process asks to confirm that your goal is to make a profitable company, you can't finish the process without signing on it.
But circling back to remote work, it's good to have options especially when you don't want co-workers coughing deadly virus on each other. Labor's pricing power is always under threat, but in some cases where the company needs to compete for talent or isn't rabidly horny for crushing every last ounce of productive value out of it's workers - it's kinda nice.
@@martintvrdik1655 I'll politely disagree. Plenty of companies do & neglect to do things which lead up to leaving money on the table. Some companies value goodwill or live in a bubble where hyper competitiveness isn't required. In fact, I think most companies would prefer that.
While greed can fluctuate with time it should be noted that even if it remains the same this still makes an impact on the system. We live in a finante world the idea that corporate greed won't make things worse over time is just silly.
Argument 1 is null and void as it applies equally to non-remote and remote work. You can't rerun and test for the other with identical conditions. Regarding 2, this process started way before, for example, microsoft got rid of QA about 10 yrs ago and Windows 10, Surface, and visual studio were buggier Rapid release and ask for forgiveness when stuff breaks seems the new industry norm.
Remote work or death
Same. I am never going back to the office. Not even if they doubled my salary
Hero ❤
it's way better for everyone who isn't a chatterbox extrovert like prime. he's exactly the kind of guy that gets shit done while interrupting everyone else with his out loud thoughts
We don't need productivity gain we plenty of that, we need wages to raise to the productivity.
I love remote work i am NEVER going back in the office. I am even more productive tjan in the office because i have a room to myself with a 4k screen where i work without any distractions.
Bro worked from home for years but now wonders if others should be afforded the same. He got his I guess.
Return to office mandates started when the economy started dropping and companies needed to find a way to lay off swathes of people quickly. I’ve worked remotely since 2020 for a couple of companies and communication /collaboration has not been an issue at all. Everytime we got together in person, we did so little work and mostly wasted time. Anyone who isn’t doing well remotely, is gonna go awful in person. If you are motivated enough to work, you will find a way to make whatever situation work and adapt. I’ve yet to hear any good argument for return to office that hasn’t been just a vibes thing by people who were only motivated when they had the pressure of seeing others working.
Effective remote work is a skill. I work IT for a non-tech company. Our employees just seem to learn our systems better in the office, mostly because they’re more willing to call across the cubicle and ask for my help than they would working remotely.
@@funkdefied1 that’s again the motivation thing. If you hire people who care about working this job, they won’t have an issue asking questions or for your help regardless of where they are
@@playea123 that depends on the person. In my case, I prefer to ask question in person, as I found people gives a lot more information talking than chatting. Also, they tend to gossip more about office politics. In a company controlled chat or mail people is more careful.
@@tychoides that speaks to my point about people not developing the requisite skills/ adapting to the circumstances. During covid when you couldn’t work in the office, did you get no/low quality work done? If you ask someone a question over chat and they don’t answer it exactly, why don’t you ask them follow up questions and bring it up to your manager if they aren’t being helpful/ doing their part of the work by answering your questions? Are you asking clear, concise questions? Are you clarifying if there is a misunderstanding? I don’t get this complaint at all. Are you bringing up less gossiping as a con to remote working? Why would a company not want that?
@@playea123 just to clarify things, I believe is as productive at home as in office, or even more. Only managers think otherwise. Any inefficiency in working with other people is compensated by being able to work without distractions and not having to commute. Again I stand to my point some people collaborate great online only, other people don't. Also there is people that don't have a good environment for work at home. So I think that should be the employee choice, and employer should offer different choices.
I generally enjoy Prime but he's always had a shit take on this issue that's hypocritical IMO. He's had so many rants about his time working and living in San Francisco and how awful every aspect of it was (COL, commute, et cetera).
He kept the bay area salary and moved away *specifically* to a low COL area.
Which is the sane choice anyone would make if afforded that opportunity.
To see him then argue against remote work being good is baffling.
He's seen to be just talking about the productivity aspect of it and not about the quality of life aspect of remote work
It's JS devs, we all know it.
I’ve been remote since I switched careers into tech in 2022, never had an issue with anything honestly. People slack off remotely just like they would in-office, and other work even better remotely bc the lack of distraction.
It's a matter of commuting. I just bought a house 2 hours from the nearest city in my country Chile, Santiago. Santiago is the ONLY city that concentrates most of IT jobs and most office jobs in general of lots of industries as well. The city is colapsing because everything is centralized here, traffic is awful, crime rate is rising and the housing is bad because if you want to buy/rent something near to office jobs the only thing available is tiny apartments, same thing that happened to Japan, so is that or going outside the city if you want a decent house and a decent quality of life, so I did that. For me going to the office is losing 4 hours DAILY of the free time that already have, and it's not a thing that I just went far from the city because I wanted to, I feel that I was forced to do that in order to give a better quality life to my family, there was not other choice really. If things were different and I could buy a house in the city 30 minutes on bike to the office, sure thing I would drop home office.
A properly managed remote-first company will be no less effective than an on-site one. It's just they need to be managed very differently.
enshitification is something i relate to. the entire energy around software engineering is so weird rn - either it's about money or creating your own tech startup or switching jobs or having some freaking very niche deep knowledge so you are perceived as a chad.
I currently working in a place that need to be done in office part of the time (for security reasons and better connectivity) . So I understand that remote work is not for all people, is a perk of certain jobs. There is remote work but I prefer to go to the office as I have no fix office time so I can go whatever time I like, so I escape the rush hour.Also, I prefer to interact with people in person. Such a boomer. But if I have fix hours I would just do remote work for my remaining time., Traffic the bane of sanity.
I like having the social environment of an office, and this is a con from remote work.
But my god, the amount of pros simply crush the cons.
If I had to move to Chicago to work with my current salary I would gladly jump off a window.
Workers and businesses gain a lot from this, it's quite obvious to me.
__ FLP DELETE ME OR LINK PROPERLY __
Are we just at the point now where "Enshitification" will just be used for "things getting worse" instead of its actual definition/context of online services purposely getting worse to derive value from producers and consumers?
I love office work and working with people in person. However, I hate that going to the office takes at least 2 of commuting + money for gas, food that is 3x more expensive than what I make at home and meeting some unpleasent people at work
Probably depends on the person
No more total a day 3.5 hour commute 6 times a week. That I either can put into more work or use as free time.
The shitification started much earlier. For me became conscious about it january 2007 with the premiere of the iphone. For others it was TPM a bit earlier. From court documents it is clear that microsoft from the get go holds a certain vision that could be described as a war against general computing. Same as apple, nintendo and every arcade of the 70s. Hard to say where it began. Clearly they all fumed at the thought of Turing Completeness (TC) as they all really want TC -1 and they want to control what -1 is. It seems to be that it was always shit and now it become more and more multithreaded, automated, virtualized, vectorised and jacked up with AI shit ... but the core of it all is still shit.
RTO mandates came back swinging after we got wind of the massive drop in Commercial Real Estate Value.
This is not a productivity issue, it's about control and more importantly Commercial Real Estate, don't forget that companies who have Offices of their own don't want to see the value of that asset plummet. This is a much bigger reason than "productivity" specially when companies used to hire SWE just so their competitors don't have them.
I saw one video on non competes becoming illegal and giving power back to employees and corporate needing to bend the knee to recruiters. poaching is gonna be huge if the FTC can make this happen and might shift companies to care about employees more.
I refuse anything other than 100% remote. I also refuse to negotiate pay based on being remote. You are paying me for my skills and my time. Where I am when I do those things is not a bargaining chip that I accept. Does this limit my opportunities? Not really - if anything it helps me dodge bullets constantly.
I like flexibility not remote work. Give me the freedom to work from home today because of xyz.
I think whether or not its better (for productivity?) can be debated endlessly, but what's not debatable is that people like to have the option and (at least in software engineering) are increasingly unwilling to put up with their bosses dictating to them how they should spend their days.
Why things are generally getting worse?
Late stage capitalism plane and simple.
Corporate greed is definitely a problem and it is worse now, it remained the same but it progressess, that's like wandering why are things worse now? they weren't before when there was corporate greed could it be things got worse because of it? systems have a tendency to progress afterall.
The major argument over remote work is a company has to manage all the various tax laws for each state a worker is in. If all your remote workers are in California you only have to worry about California law. If Alice is in Wyoming, Bob is in Nebraska, Charlie is in South Dakota, and Daphne is in California you have to manage the taxes for each state. Generally speaking this means you need your business to operate in each respective state.
return to office -> return to home -> return to office -> return to home this has been my exp so far in the same company LOL... kill me!
So, “it depends”?… 😜
i suggest remote work apprenticeships with hourly rates starting at $7.25 an hour
This is absolutely NOT one of Prime's best videos. Greed *does* fluctuate over time. And I'm sorry, but when you have a thoroughly immoral person at the top who is entirely transactional & willing to use the levers of power only to their own benefit, you're making a greedy, immoral culture.
But besides that, the power that's available to the greedy has never been greater: citizen's united, surveillance capitalism, the regulatory/consultant revolving door, crazily bad supreme court decisions, and soon - the end of the civil servant class to be replaced by incompetent lackeys & cronies. The power of greed is on the move.
So are you seriously suggesting that companies are not maximizing profits at every given moment? Because if you do then you are wrong. This is what companies do and what they are supposed to do. Government can set limitations to it through various means but it can not remove this one principle behind this. There is no reason for private company to exist if not for profit.
@@martintvrdik1655 Quite literally. Here, the company creation process asks to confirm that your goal is to make a profitable company, you can't finish the process without signing on it.
But circling back to remote work, it's good to have options especially when you don't want co-workers coughing deadly virus on each other.
Labor's pricing power is always under threat, but in some cases where the company needs to compete for talent or isn't rabidly horny for crushing every last ounce of productive value out of it's workers - it's kinda nice.
@@martintvrdik1655 I'll politely disagree. Plenty of companies do & neglect to do things which lead up to leaving money on the table. Some companies value goodwill or live in a bubble where hyper competitiveness isn't required. In fact, I think most companies would prefer that.
While greed can fluctuate with time it should be noted that even if it remains the same this still makes an impact on the system.
We live in a finante world the idea that corporate greed won't make things worse over time is just silly.
Cory Doctorow MENTIONED !!
Pretty sure the founder of LinkedIn already said WFH is bad… 😂
Argument 1 is null and void as it applies equally to non-remote and remote work. You can't rerun and test for the other with identical conditions.
Regarding 2, this process started way before, for example, microsoft got rid of QA about 10 yrs ago and Windows 10, Surface, and visual studio were buggier
Rapid release and ask for forgiveness when stuff breaks seems the new industry norm.
yeah
Effective remote work is a skill. It’s not necessarily intuitive, but it can be taught to those with humility and a drive to be a good contributor.
1:00 woke
L take
1:43 he’s right but corporate power has been a bigger problem ever since citizens united v fec
The way some people "work" from home makes me realise why RTO mandates are being pushed all over the place.