[Twin Peaks] S3 E17 Ten Things You Might Have Missed The Return Part 17 The Past Dictates the Future
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- Опубліковано 13 вер 2024
- Ten things you might have missed in Twin Peaks season 3 episode 17. The first half of the season finale of the Return.
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The Twin Peaks season 3 finale was broken up into two parts. This video looks at 10 things you might have missed in the Return part 17 which was titled "The Past Dictates the Future." Season 3 episode 17 was full of details you might overlook on the first watch of the Twin Peaks season finale.
Twin Peaks season 3 episode 17 was the more action packed of the two finale parts. We saw all the characters converge at the Twin Peaks sheriff's department, and then Agent Dale Cooper travel through a portal below the Great Northern Hotel and revist the night of Laura Palmer's murder. David Lynch and Mark Frost delved into the mythology over the lodges, and we see Coop meet up with Mike the one armed man who takes him above the convienence store to see Phillip Jeffries.
The Twin Peaks the Return season finale will be poured over for years as fans try to pick through all the details to better understand what happened. This 10 things video is a good place to start since part 17 left us with so much to think about. Many answers were revealed in the first half of the Twin Peaks s3 finale, but many more questions came up and continued to come up straight through part 18.
Tell us what you thought about season 3 of Twin Peaks and part 17 in the comments. Do you like Twin Peaks s3 e17 better, or did you prefer e18?
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Coop changed history and fate so much that the lonesome foghorn couldn't blow as Pete went out to fish.
Time to rewatch the whole damn series again!!!
Peter, thank you for all of your videos. They were really important for me when watching the return. The first thing that i've always done when watching an episode was to watch your videos in the sequence, wich were very claryfing and always helped me understand and admire this complex world of tp made by lynch and frost. Please, don't stop making videos about tp since that it's done. It's beeing a hell of an experience for me. Thanks
Oh and thanks so much for keeping this going Pete- I'm so not ready to let go of it yet!
Part 18 tomorrow if everything goes according to plan.
8 pool ....there is some fear in letting go!
You have to let go, Jack.
Sure...
8 pool: 33 likes...Illuminati (Wink Wink!)
"There's a fish in the percolator!"
"its slippery in here"
Jeffries is a god damn fish
In your discussion of Mike's poem being recalled, you missed the clip of Bob's poem that was recalled.
'I'll catch you with my death bag; you may think I've gone insane; but I promise, I will kill again.'
I think Judy will be explained in detail in The Final Dossier. I think that it may have been influenced by the exposition joke, but they could add more story to it. But Lynch as methodical as he is does like to just go with his gut when they're actually filming. That's the only reason Frank Silva was even in the show. So I bet he just threw it in there to give a tiny bit of exposition. The way he interacts with Albert makes me feel like Gordon is symbolic of Lynch, who knows more than we expect, Albert is the old class of Twin Peaks fans who are short and have analyzed every unimportant detail of everything, and Tammy is the new era of fans who are curious and intrigued in the brand new content. Just my opinion, Gordon, Albert and Tammy always seemed like observers, like giving exposition and interacting with each other is the way Lynch can reach out past the 4th wall without spoiling the magic.
Great analogy there with Gordon, Albert, and Tammy standing in for Lynch and us fans. ;D
You're the best Pete! Thanks for all your hard work and excellent videos throughout this mind blowing series.
No problem. Planning on doing part 18 tomorrow.
Finding out that Ray was a paid informant was another interesting moment from episode seventeen. Don't know if he earned his keep though considering he said to Bad Coop, "I know who you are" and the FBI didn't know about two Coop's until much later in the season. Still begs the question, who gave Ray the ring?
Ray said a guard at the prison slipped him the ring so my thinking is a teapot dressed up as a guard would maybe attract too much attention so it must have been Mike, somehow.
PETE, YOURE THE best, thank u!!..I heard on a different discussion the interpretation of Phillips Jefferys reference to it being "slippery in here" was referring to time being flexible where Phillip was..
the "kettle" is a shivalingam symbol, male and female united in balance, bowie the androgyne fits here
I haven't seen many mentions of the fact that Cooper's lapel pin is missing in the Sheriff's Office but there once him, Diane and Gordon transport to the basement. this happens at a few times throughout the series and I think it has to be important
Gregor Rooch it’s also upside down at times and resembles the face from the card.
Thank you. I said the 8 was infinity on Reddit. Infinity. Time travel. It's slippery.
Thanks for that; so many people think Jeffries is being literal with the "slippery"; it seem obvious that it indicates the peril of time travel.
OtherJesus travelling on intertwined timelines
I said 8 looked like infinity when I was a small child.
drabauer that's how I took it too, that's how I assumed everyone took it. That time is slippery. But alot of people since said they thought bowie was in there slipping about the place lmao 😂
The "It's slippery in here" quote made me think Jeffries was talking about time. He asks Cooper for a specific date and then tries moving through time to find that moment. As we saw in FWWM, traveling through time isn't a lot of fun for Jeffries, and we'll see this affecting Cooper as well in part 18.
Great Pete...regarding 253, in Episode 2 arm told Cooper, "253 time and time again". If we admit that Coop is the dreamer, maybe at that moment Coop is dreaming the Sheriff Department scene.
Definitely agree. Coop proceeds to try to help Laura in what appeared to be an alternative reality however I think he knows that something isn't right given his superimposed face is one of shock not dissimilar to when Laura whispered in his ear. I believe the arm was mocking Coop when he said "is this the story of the girl who lives down the lane?", i.e we have been here before and Coop will continue to relive his attempt to save Laura over and over again until he releases that it is an induced dream / nightmare where he believed he succeeded but actually never left the lodge. Laura whispered to Coop "we live in a dream" and he simply stated this out load during episode 17. If you think about this theory further then the ambiguous ending forces us, the viewers, to rewatch the series over and over again (not a bad thing) until we also realise that Coop was in a dream and was trapped with Laura in the lodge.
It's not dreams.
It's not timelines.
It's TV CHANNELS!
The characters don't jump timelines or dreams, they move to another show on another channel.
The whole Return has been a metaphor about watching TV. Norma's fight to keep the RR the way she wants it is surely based on Lynch's talks with Showtime. The sockets in the Mauve Zone are cable networks--You can't go on channel 15, you have to go on channel 3!
Audrey is on a show which got cancelled after a cliffhanger--Twin Peaks Season 2, anyone? Or Sense8? Or any show which ended without resolution? Charlie is her agent who moves her from series to series (story to story). He gets her out of the failed series.
The Mother represents the TV Industry which decides what lives and what dies. She spits out all kinds of eggs/series, not knowing which will find a host/network. The eggs are piots.
Cooper and Diane are like two actors who move from one show to another. They drive through the 430 vortex into a new series. The audience wants them to stay the same characters, but they have to change in ways they don't expect. We, the audience, still see Dale Cooper no matter what show he's in--even when his character name is Richard!
The White Lodge is the part of the industry that supports artists; the Black Lodge is the people who demand that shows make a profit.
The glass box is a TV. Sarah watches TV. The Farm watches TV. The super-imposed image of Cooper is watching TV. Audrey's last scene is watching herself on TV.
cool pov.
Stuart Kenny nice
* 'The Eggs are pilots'
Brilliant interpretation!! Love how it all fits together 😁
This analogy is certainly related to ONE of the themes of The Return, but doesn't encompass ALL of the concepts and themes of Twin Peaks as a whole.
In other words, this still doesn't explain anything in the narrative.
major briggs' note w/ two coopers.. it is actually THREE coopers, just that the third is cut off
WHY DOES COOPER IN SOME SCENES HAS HIS PIN ON HIS SUIT AND ON SOME HE DOESN'T? EXCUSE ME FOR ALL CAPS BUT HEY IT SEEMS IMPORTANT AND EVERYBODY SEEMS TO IGNORE THIS
BTW JUST READ THIS IN GORDON'S COLE VOICE, OK HONEY?
Miskonzin 😂 haha
+Miskonzin it appears after the sheriff's office when he is walking with Diane and Gordon underneath the Great Northern. Not sure why or what it means
In the first scene of S3E1 Cooper's pin is missing. The same when, for example, Dougie got shocked and fell into a coma or any other scene with Dougie. And when Cooper is arriving to the Twin Peaks he is still "pinless". Yet in any other scenes, like the one you mentioned, or when Coop was in the Red Room or when he was staying in the motel as Richard/Cooper - he has his pin on. Some sort of duality of Coopers? I've got no idea what does it mean. Sure it's a mystery...
Considering how sloppy some of this season has been I wouldn't be surprised if it's another error.
We see Cooper becoming aware of his dream (i.e. events of "The Return") and after the sudden cut to black (that dream ending) we see him alongside Diane and Gordon, walking out of the blackness, now wearing the pin. This is the real Cooper, who never left the Black Lodge UNTIL NOW. The spunky "100%" Cooper who finally emerged in part 16 was this Cooper's dream or imagining of himself. (one of many ways to interpret all of this..)
Thank you for your videos...
Was wondering if you might do a video examining Lost Highway and its connections to Twin Peaks since Lynch has said that Lost Highway is in the same universe as Twin Peaks.
I also noticed there were no woodsmen on Dale and Mike's journey to Jeffries, only the jumping man. Did the woodsmen (and possible Judy) retreat when Bob was shattered?
Something quite important, overlooked by a lot of people. In his note to Gordon, Cooper says "it's 2:53 in Las Vegas", same day Mr. C goes into vortex (should it be 2:53 ?), still the same day, time is stopped on 2:53 in Sheriff Station ... so time stopped when Cooper awaken? It looks, like it was 2:53 whole day, or wherever he goes. BTW that 8 is not infinity, it's 8, infinity is horizontal.
If Cooper becomes Richard why does he identify himself as Dale Cooper at the Palmer house?
bonesjackson2 Because that's what he wants to be instead of his true self.
Because he's Dale Cooper inhabiting Richard just as Bob inhabited DoppelDale. The problem is, Coop's now made too many "jumps" and he is starting to lose track of who and where he is.
Because that's the 'perfect' version of himself, the one he wants to be, but in reality he is both good Coop and bad Coop, hence his behavior/attitude in episode eighteen.
So Cooper is now the son of the teenage girl he refused to have sex with because she was too young? Maybe he did and he's his own dad too, that would explain why he looks so much like himself.
?? Are you misunderstanding what's being said? Richard is the name of Dale Cooper in that final... dimension. It could be DoppelDale named Richard after himself IF DoppelDale was from that dimension (but that would mean there was an empty vessel in Richard from dimension X for 25 years, so I'm not wild about that theory*). I think you misunderstood which Richard was being discussed. Or I did- I can't just assume I'm always correct.
*also, why would Audrey choose to name her child after the person who violated her? IF he did- maybe Audrey willingly accepted DoppelDale's advances. There really are not enough clues for anything solid.
i took the 8 as the infinity symbol or endless loops in multiple realities
Thanks, Pete!
Think about Sara's other scenes - looping (scene with the boxing match on the tv) and consistency (the jerky being new made her flip out) seem to be themes...thoughts?
We also hear THAT SOUND in the episode when Cooper meets the evolution of the arm and its doppelganger. When Cooper tries to leave but gets blocked (and he has to turn around and go back) we can hear that same sound.. - all happening in the red room.
Co-existing universes, co-existing soul, co-existing past and future, all existing alongside each other, without time playing the same part as it does in our worldly existence - it's all relative!
So how many Twin Peaks fans have already gone out and gotten the Judy antenna head-thing tattoo? I see that being a big thing- or even just the Owl Cave symbol.
The Fire Walk with Me speech began with either the European pilot or Episode 3 of the first season.
Another brilliant review
He's obviously the fish in the percolator
Wool Puppy LOL!
Good one!
"It's slippery in here" could have also been a warning about where Coop was about to go. (Messing with time stream, etc)
Just read the subtitles. Chants.
The script says chance though. That is why there is the discrepancy. Al Strobel said he got the line from Lynch handwritten and that it was chants. But the official scripted version says chance which is why that is accepted. Chants makes way more sense to me.
Never seemed awkward to me, as a mystical being would "chant" to call out to another being/world. The homophone does give it a Lynchian ambiguity, suggesting that to chant is taking a chance.
It's an invocation rather than a poem as such, which is why to me "chants" makes as much sense as "chance" depending on one's philosophical orientation (i.e. is something being invoked in that moment, or is something being described by the invoking).
The subtitles are the least definitive thing. Someone at another company that does subtitles types them up and spells things however they want to.
Re: the noise the fireman plays Cooper that is heard just before Laura disappears. It also occurs in when dale is told he can leave the waiting room and tries to get out and is rebuffed , the noise occurs there he then has to go to another exit where the doppelgänger arm sends him to the mauve zone. I'm. It entirely sure what it proves other than it isn't good. I wonder if reversing or slowing the noise down reveals anything.
So basically Jeffries is hot boxing in a tea kettle. Aight.
Sorry Pete, and I haven't read any other comments yet, but the poem of fire walk with me appears in season 1 episode 2 in Cooper's dream and before that was actually in the extended version of the pilot for the European video release. It is spoken by Philip Girard though that time as well as the one you mentioned.
I wonder if Dale saw Diane in the black lodge, and that is why he asked her if she remembered everything? There seems to be multiple tulpas...
I thought we also heard it at the house of the farmer that Andy visits. When he doesn't show up to meet Andy and we see the door of his house flung open.
I was obsessively researching the language of the Nez Perce because I don't understand why Joao Dae (or however it's spelled) would be a Chinese phrase- makes no sense for an ancient deity in that part of the world. No luck yet, however, I did establish that they have the same word for sun and moon- don't know how or if that's relevant yet, but I wonder about that piece of paper from Major Briggs......
8 pool Lynch infuses Buddhist themes into all of his works. Dale Cooper is obsessed with Tibetan Buddhist theology. Chinese Jao Dai makes enough sense to me.
Yeah- that did cross my mind, but do they speak Chinese in Tibet? I think they have a language of their own, could be very similar to Chinese, I suppose? For all I know, it could be ciaio dei & therefore "goodbye God" ;)
8 pool They dont speak Mandarin or Cantonese in Tibet, but the Chinese, who are occupying Tibet, do speak those languages. Also, Buddhism has been practiced in China for thousands of years, prior to communist China.
Additionally, Josie was from Hong Kong, I believe... which is.... something. lol. I dont think Lynch's lore is meant to be specific to one culture, but is an amalgamation of different ancient mythologies, mixed in with some of his own original ideas.
Ha! Well he knows how to keep us guessing alright! I've just been to see IT, which was a favourite book of mine as a teenager- absolutely not scary or moving at all. Damn you Lynch- is everything to turn to ashes in my mouth now?
I think everyone is WAY overthinking this. Lynch already had the name Judy from Fire Walk with Me, where his co-writer on that film said it was originally meant to have been Josie's sister. Lynch wasn't interested in keeping that idea at this point, and had to make Judy be something else, but you can't just say that the ultimate evil force is named Judy, because that sounds totally silly. He therefore made up an older name that conceivably could have devolved in pronunciation. We have "Jow Day" because it sounds like "Judy" and probably for no other reason. I doubt he spent a lot of time combing through dictionaries for other languages, looking for something that both sounded like "Judy" and had some special extra meaning.
Also, "dai" in Chinese is pronounced "die," not "day."
Pete can you review/explore the episode 17 & 18 sync theory?
I really enjoyed most of this series. I'm not going to try and understand everything in there, but I did find it wasteful to keep on introducing new characters who never really had any point to them. I like Lynch but I don't think he's as brilliant as some people seem to. Way too much unfinished business.
The first time we hear the "fire walk with me" poem is in Cooper's dream in the first series. The instance in the second season is a reprise.
Hey Pete, I hope I catch your attention here. This is big, but you may already be aware of it.
I've been going back and looking at the Black/White Lodge scenes in The Return, basically anything to shed light on the more abstract/metaphysical stuff that happens.
In Part 2, there's a very telling scene in the Black Lodge. Both Mike and Coop appear there, sitting in chairs. Mike asks, "Is it future, or is it past? Someone is here." Mike then vanishes. A moment later, Laura enters, wearing a dark dress.
"Hello, Agent Cooper," she says. "You can go out now. Do you recognize me?"
Coop says, "Are you Laura Palmer?"
Laura says, "I feel like I know her. But sometimes my arms bend back."
It was this moment that I realized what this probably meant. Look at an image of Judy spewing out the eggs in the midst of that nuclear explosion. Judy/The Experiment's arms are bent back.
Laura, or this version of her, is Judy. Mike vanished because he was afraid of her.
It's shortly after this that Laura whispers into Coop's ear. What she says terrifies him, and then she screams and is pulled out of the Black Lodge.
The scene then snaps back to Mike sitting in the chair, asking Coop again -- as though it hadn't yet happened -- "Is it future or is it past?"
What if the moment Laura is pulled out of the Black Lodge is the same moment Laura is pulled out of the forest with Coop, in Part 17, occurring across dimensions?
Maybe "two birds with one stone" means that by returning Laura/Carrie to her house in Twin Peaks, he's both saving Laura and destroying Judy.
Also in Part 2, as Coop is trying to leave the Black Lodge, he passes through electricity rather than through a curtain. It's at this moment that Mike remarks to the Arm, "There's something wrong." The Arm then refers to its doppelganger.
Who is the Arm's doppelganger? Is it Judy?
I make that guess, because like the Arm, Judy is associated with electricity.
Why am I so obsessed with Cooper
They symbol is NOT an 8. It is the symbol for infinity. Hence the dot that travels inside the symbol, designating the point in time.
+Nick Maione literally it's an 8. Which is exactly the same as an infinity symbol.
A lot of plot lines were tied up but no mention of the superimposed face of Coop which confirmed that all was not as it seemed. Diane wore black lodge colours, for example.
Is the sound the Giant plays through the grammar-phone the same as that on the record player in the scene where Maddie is killed? Or am I clutching at straws there?
Is there a sense of a red outline or blood on the couch and the floor in the Palmer house where Sarah was?
I'm sure I'm not the only person to remember this, but Mike's poem is recited for the THIRD time in S03E17, not for the second time. The first time the poem was recited by Mike was at the beginning of Cooper's first Red Room/Waiting Room dream in season 1. Cooper recites the poem with Mike in season 2 because he's already heard it before.
+Amanda Sutton yep
When we first see Lucy again, in the scene when she's talking to Truman while she thinks he's fishing and she doesnt yet understand mobile phones, I think there is some foreshadowing because when she falls back out of her chair in suprise is the same way Mr C gets knocked back and down off his chair when Lucy shoots him.
I think the symbol in the smoke looks like the symbol for infinity.
An 8 is an infinity symbol.
well the symbol for infinity is a figure 8 lain on its side, but yes.
Ashford Wyrd an infinite loop. But also, look at the symbol before it becomes an 8 and then look at the electricity pylon. What does Mike say to end that scene with Philip? "Electricity"
Did you not notice the ball that travels around the symbol?, perhaps moves to different timelines.
It's a mobius strip, something very common in Lynchland storytelling.
Is that Mike next to Coop at 0.22? Looks like some bald guy I haven't seen before.
Remember that the original printout from Briggs had COOPER/COOPER/COOPER, three of them and in the tube they found, it was cut off. What's up with that? Was the third Cooper, Richard?
Richard was both Coopers.
Not so sure about that. Could be that "Richard" was the third Cooper and it was deliberately cut from the paper slip.
You said Mike first said the poem in season 2. Not true season 1 as well. Please correct.
The first reference to the multiple Cooper's by Major Briggs originally had 3 Cooper's. I would have, if I was directing, incorporated that, because there were definitely 3 Cooper's existing at one time. Now I can make the argument that when they looked at the slip from the canister from Major Briggs chair, that one of the 3 Cooper's names on it was cut in half. This would explain the mentality of the original Dale Cooper when he switched places with Dougie Jones. Dale Cooper was basically in infantile state until he came out of his coma. Dougie wasn't named Cooper, but we know that Dougie was created from the DNA of Dale Cooper. 3 Cooper's...not just 2.
Just watched again ep. 17 and 18. Some more thoughts. When Coop went to see Jeffries, this one told him how he could "find Judy". Cooper had 2 objectives then: find Laura and save her from being killed (he'd have to go to the past ), and, by doing so he'd defeat Judy ("2 birds with one stone"). Coop went to meet Laura just before her murder, and saved her, changing the past facts. Judy got mad, attacked Laura's picture and counterattacked ! She took Laura from Cooper in the woods (Laura screamed loudly) and led her to another world/dimension, where she would forget being Laura and would live as Carrie Paige a very disturbed life (the dead man in her house, her comments in the car about her life in Odessa,...), negatively controlled by Judy. But Cooper won't give up ! He joined Diane and then they followed the Fireman's instructions to find Laura: they went to mile 430, a portal to the other dimension where there would be doppelgängers of them: Richard and Linda. Richard, in fact, was Mr. C (or, the "Bad Coop"), already dead !! But Linda was still there and Diane saw her at the motel entrance. She wasn't surprised by seeing Linda, because she already knew that she lived there. Then Cooper got Carrie Page's address and convinced her to come with him to Twin Peaks, to be Laura Palmer again (frustrating Judy's plans). But, when they came there, the surprise: the proprietary of the house wasn't the Palmer family anymore !!! Why ? Cooper didn't expect that ! That happened because, when Cooper changed the past facts, he affected the future too ! Cooper was confused. And then, Laura remembered ! She "listened" her mother's voice calling her, and then everything came back, to her despair. At the very end, after Laura's scream, Judy probably counterattacked again. They went back to the Lodge. That are my new thoughts, maybe they are right.
52 to 53 minutes after the hour is the traditional time that old detective shows are wrapped up. By repeatedly going back and forth between 52 and 53, Lynch is telling his original Twin Peaks audience to hold our horses, there's more to come. That's my guess anyway.
we will have so much to talk to some time(:-ò- Have anyone noticed that the lady who opens the sara palmer door in the episode 18-the alternate reality-is talking to someone sa cooper ask specific question-who's that lady talking to??
I've always been irritated by people saying it goes back and forth between 2:53 and 2:52. the hour hand is clearly past the 3, thus making it impossible to consider it to be 2:anything.
Number 708 adds up to a 6. The number on the power pole!
i think everything involving Audrey happened inside her dream, Cooper and Diane go through the portal and enter Laura's dream in the final hour. Cooper realizes he is back in 1989 because he saved Laura and Laura screams as her mother calls her awake and she is drawn back into her previous nightmare.
I doubt that Lynch has ever written anything without ambiguity, but if we go with the meta explonation, Judy would represent the audience's yearning to have the mysteries answered, to have the puzzle solved and to have everything explained. This would also fit nicely with Gordon being an avatar of Lynch's in the story. "He'll remember the unofficial version".
It's hard to think that even in the world of Twin Peaks, the whole assembly at the Sheriff's station was real. Think how neatly everything seemed to wrap up. Too neatly. Thing how inhumanely and relatively passively everyone reacts to everything. Think how Cooper says he hopes to see everyone again (with his face superimposed over everything and saying they all live inside a dream) and later tells Cole and Diane he'll "see them at the curtain call".
The lane Coop says about hoping to see everyone again might even be an unintentional reference to the sadly thinned herd of Twin Peaks actors. Maybe it's like Lynch saying he hopes everyone stays well and lives a long, nice life and if he and Frost decide to continue the story, they'll all be there again.
a loop is a slippery slope..
So we have Kingdom Hearts rules here? Add an X when you become a Nobody... same with living in other realities? Dina-E, Dina-O, Dina-L... Diane, Naido, Linda...
Twin Peaks is in Universe E, Purple Palace is in Universe O, Carrie Page (displaced Laura Palmer?) lives in Universe L.
Joe V love the kingdom hearts nod 😂
Janie-E!
How about when Mr. C pulls the gun on Frank. We see the gun fire, then we see Frank's hat momentarily hop off his head, then land exactly in place back on his head. I'm not sure what this means, but I think it must be an ode to some old western movie. It also makes it seem like Frank is invincible. Or, maybe somehow the bullet from Lucy's gun hit Mr. C exactly as he fired his gun, causing the bullet from his gun to whiz by Frank's head instead of hit him.
Yeah I expected to see a bullet hole in Frank's hat. Odd moment.
A bit tardy to the party, but better late than never. I haven't seen any of S3, but have a question, do any of the 3 Coops appear together at any point?
Watch Ep 17 & 18 simulatenously in two video players. They have a ton of paralell moments, and they give away the time of the Sarah's picture smashing scene. It also reveals who is the wounded man in the cell.
Remember, two birds with one stone! :)
Details on this please.
wow!
Gridscape I read an opinion that the Carrie Page reality is the doppelganger of twin peaks. Could the last two episode be each other's doppelganger s???
No way. I have to run out but I know what I'm doing the minute I return
Is the drunk guy/wounded guy the same as the corpse in Carrie's home?
Did Carie Paige just kill BOB in her universe before Cooper arrived at her house in Odessa ?
It looks like the guy in the chair not only has the head shot wound but it looks like something had tried to exit his stomach like BOB had done with Bad Coop.
What if Laura saw some one and screamed the way she did when she noticed Cooper behind Jimmy in the woods?
Curtis Roberts Well, she heard Sarah's voice calling out to her. Does that count as "someone"?
From what I've read, the Final Dossier is really just going to fill in the gaps between 1991 and 2017 for the residents of Twin Peaks, so I think we will get a better understanding of Audrey's fate, but I don't think we will get much in terms of the new mythology: the Experiment, the Woodsman, the Box, etc... which is the stuff I'm most curious about. I sure hope I'm wrong, but I just feel like Mark Frost is more concerned with the history and people of Twin Peaks and Lynch... Lynch kind of hates them.
I dunno, after reading the Secret history I came away with the feeling that Mark Frost played a big part in defining the mythology. Either way we should learn interesting stuff if the Final Dossier is anything like the Secret History.
There's obviously some reason they waited until after the series ended, so I suspect there is some good material in there, I just have little faith it will expand on much beyond this season.
Especially as it will be considerably shorter than TSHOTP :(
I think it will wrap up many of the storylines of the characters in Twin Peaks itself. If it gives further explanation of the ending or any mind blowing secrets I think that would be pretty cheap.
I think that "it's slippery in here" is meant to be much more figurative than literal
There is one other scene in which you hear "the Giant's sound", in Part 1 or 2, just before Cooper is non-existed by The Arm's doppelganger, when MIKE says "Something is wrong", the sound happens just before he says that line.
I would have to check again. I looked at most of the electrical noise scenes early in the season and they were mostly the one we heard when the arm's doppleganger first appeared and then again with the woodsmen. It's difficult to tell though so very possible I missed it or wrong.
Actually it happens three times in the last scene in the waiting room at the end of part 2 (I only know because I started rewatching it tonight, after binge rewatching the original series + FWWM). When the Arm says "Go now", Coop leaves that room, and walks down the hall toward the camera to the other room, but just as he's about to walk through the curtain, the sound happens very loudly, and he looks quite shaken. So he turns around and walks back into the other room, and then the sound happens again, to which MIKE responds "Something's wrong", and the Arm says "My Doppelganger". Then Coop leaves the room again and the sound happens once more as the camera cuts to a close shot of the Roman statue at the end of the hall, the one that turns into the Arm's doppelganger and banishes Coop after he sees his Doppelganger through the curtain.
Whew!
Weird, I will definitely have to got back now because I came to the opposite conclusion when I watched earlier. I felt pretty certain it was this noise which is different than the Giant's - thesearchforthezone.com/media/electrical_interference_2.wav
Hmm maybe you're right, I'm gonna go back and give that first scene with the Fireman another go over. Which is fine, I feel like I'll watch the whole 18 Part series at least once more before the end of the year haha I loved it to bits.
Nah there are definitely sounds that are quite similar to the sound the Fireman showed him happening in that scene
12:55 jiao dai in Mandarin means to confess to authority
Notice that the Judy symbol (if that's what it actually represents) is below the Moon and next to one of the mountains both on the Major's slip of paper and on Hawk's map. In her final phone call, the Log Lady referred to the 'One I told you about before, under the Moon on Blue Pine Mountain'.
She also said it couldn't be discussed on the phone, only when they were able to speak face to face. Presumably, this occurred in her home, where the Owls can't see and you can speak freely.
Philip Jeffries famously refused to talk about Judy.
Hawk said to never ask about that symbol.
The Fireman said 'It is in our House now. It cannot be said aloud now.'
Clearly, you cannot talk about Judy, not in any place in which she might be able to hear you. I wonder if maybe this is why everything went wrong with Cooper's plan after rescuing Laura. He'd been looking for Judy, asking about her, as had his evil Doppelganger. Judy had been alerted to everything that was going on.
If you took all the original cast scenes .it it would only make 2 eps
Mike says the phrase in season 1 in the autopsy room... OWv3qfschlE
Anyone else got the new soundtrack album yet?
Gary Cottier yes!
Yes both of them, and the windswept album too as there are two tracks on there missing from the 'roadhouse' and twin peaks soundtrack cds
Wondering if you or anyone else caught what looked to me like a shadowy figure going down the stairs right after Mike and Dale Cooper go up the stairs on their way to see Phillip Jeffries. It may have just been a trick to my eyes, but I'm about 75-80% certain it is a shadowy figure.
you mean the jumping masked guy?
Yea it's the guy with the pointy white mask
Yep, definitely jumping man. Which again sets in motion a whole string of questions:
- Is he running away as in fleeing or is sneaking away as in he did something to (the entry to) Jeffries just before Cooper and Mike showed up? Jeffries seemed even more distraught than when Bad Cooper spoke to him
- Remember he had Sarah's face superimposed on his mask when Bad Cooper went to visit Jeffries. Who's running away here? Jumping Man? Judy?
- Where did he run to?
- ...
And what did Jeffries mean by "There may be someone else"?
So my interpretation of the masked man leaving was to suggest that by messing with the Lodge and searching for answers- by entering their world, Cooper is allowing the spirits to escape into our world. Like we see later, Cooper's efforts to fix things only creates problems.
I have no real evidence to support my interpretation, but that's just what I took away from that scene.
Also, I took Jeffries' comment that "it's slippery in here" to mean that messing with time and such is a slippery slope and once you start doing things, you could create quite the mess.
Jeffries then says "this is where you'll find Judy. There may be someone... Did you ask me this?" which I have multiple ideas of what that exchange was about. Possibly he's confusing Dale with DoppelDale.
Anyone have any ideas?
Check out the Kybalion, specially the Seven Principles of the Hermeticism. They are all over Twin Peaks The Finale. I'd love to know your opinion about this, if you have it. Thanks for the videos.
I buy that Judy actually comes from the Chinese word "to explain." It puts into great context the fact that Hawk tells Sheriff Truman in no uncertain terms, "you don't want to know about that." I thought, at the time, that knowledge of Judy is dangerous in itself. So, any explanation is inherently malevolent.
In Lovecraft (and Lynch seems clearly influenced by Lovecraft), just knowing about the existence of Cthulhu drives people insane. All of this might have something to do with why so little is ever explained in the show.
Hawk's reluctance to talk about it ties in well with Philip Jeffries not talking about Judy, the Fireman saying "It all cannot be said aloud now" and the Log Lady saying "I can't say more over the phone."
Hawk seemed reluctant to talk about a few things this season. The symbol on the map and his Glastonbury grove visit. Secretive guy.
8 was the number of jeffries' hotel room
Can somebody PLEASE tell me whats up with Audrey or Shelly's doughtier Becky (why she was in this movie anyway) or what was going on with this vomiting kid from part 11? Oh, and why we had this black cube (teleport) which suppose to be owned by some rich guy (who was this rich guy? Why he build it?)?
We got about 10 answers, but along the way we got 100 more questions.
I felt that when we saw Becky with Steven in the car, after they had done the coke, with the song playing while Becky looked up to the sky sitting on the red upholstery, I really felt, I think we all did, that Becky was going to become a really important and significant character. But nothing really happened with her. Apart from an argument with Steven, she didn't really do a lot. Disappointing, and another frustrating example of the lack of character development in this season.
Wow you revealed nothing here.
Super minor thing, but it's a pet peeve of mine when people say "whenever character X does this" or "character X always does this" when they're talking about one specific scene from the series. (i.e. implying that Sarah is constantly calling Leland at the great northern to make moaning sounds, when it really just happens in one scene from the pilot where she learns her daughter is dead)
You make statements like this many times in this video, and for some reason I've heard a lot of other fans phrase comments similarly about other scenes. I don't get it. It's not like every time you watch the series the characters are redoing everything all over again.
Diane is the red Room
At least at the end of season 2 and end of FWWM we had a clifferhanger that we understood. Now we are just left scratching our heads. Great job David Lynch. Way to turn Twin Peaks into one of your abscract movies
You watched part 8, did you not? You can't say you weren't warned. ;)
you don't know how to spell 'abstract'?
Bart Scantlin doesn't make my point less valid
Tommy McDougall you watched something by Lynch expecting it not to be like something by Lynch. That's the mistake
Dave O'Keeffe no I watched Twin Peaks expecting it to be like watching......Twin Peaks
I thought it was meant to be an infinite loop/time loop. It also has a ball or orb in it that moves, maybe that's evil or the moment the evil comes into existence. Doesn't Tulpa Diane say that it happened once before when she's saying Coop raped her. Also I like the colour of her hair and nails lol.
WrathofMatt .....I took the small ball on the infinity loop to mean that Jeffries was choosing a time, either future or past, within which Cooper would next live....or dream.
No, Diane says that about the kiss. But yes, there seems to be some strong indications of a loop and there are already many people and their theories suggesting versions of this.
"Jiaodai" it's a word that has to do with Hawk Eritage...
How do we know Laura's disappearance was a mistake? The sound from the Fireman's gramophone made me think he had taken her there intentionally.
It's definitely possible. The scream is what's misleading.
Yeah it seems to imply something bad has happened, I thought she could be screaming just on account of being ripped into another dimension. Cooper's expression is quite hard to read when she disappears.
Dude it's not an 8 it's the infinity symbol
Through the darkness of future past
The magician longs to see
One chance out between two worlds:
Fire walk with me
Jeux de [...] - Games of... [French idiom]
I didn't feel any chemistry between Cooper and Diane; not in the sheriff's office, not at the "curtain call", and certainly not in the car or hotel room. For me, it went from really cool & fun to finally meet Diane; then the mystery of her allegiance(s) as it's finally revealed she's a tulpa, and then YAWN as she has red hair and hogs a big chunk of the finale. It simply slowed the pace of the entire storyline to the point of near-boredom.
This is obviously done on purpose. Cooper seems to be retracing Mr. C's journey in some way (including having sex with Diane in the most cold and awkward way possible), and seems to have gotten some of Mr. C's personality traits as well. The story sure slows down at the end, but what a mystery!
Cooper
Audrey
Richard
Linda
Rodd
Anyone else prefer 18?
me
Hell yeah! 17 to me felt really false. It's essentially a comedy of errors type of ending. I don't think Lynch and Frost are types to make fun of the viewer in the sense of this being a joke at our expense, but there certainly was a huge hint re not taking this at face value in my humble opinion
yes, there are several super cheesy moments that suggest we can't possibly take things at face value. Take the big climax scene for example....like the bullet grazing Frank Truman's hat? "Punky" having the cahonies to shoot bad Coop in the back? The way he falls? No sign of blood or a wound? A good fashioned fist fight scene to vanquish the ultimate baddy? A hulk glove and a punch to obliterate Bob the blob? The big kiss? The whole gang just standing there gawking? There has to a reason the scene played out so comically.
neoman747, agreed. Maybe an indication that was a dream ?
I love them both.
274th
watch the two last episodes simultaneously. Two birds, one stone, one would say. And then you will save Laura Palmer.
Ep 17 and 18 are meant to watch nsync, seriously, do it.