What Will Ruin Model Railroading (Hint: It's not what you think)
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
- I welcome comments, and don't usually respond to any given one with a full video. But this one set me off a little bit...
Hope this doesn't drive too many people off.
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I've been an active model railroader for 55 years. It has always been a rich man's hobby, but I go to train shows and see that children are still fascinated with model railroad equipment. The interest is still there. The problem is that kids usually don't have much of a budget to work with. Same with young married people. So you start small and work your way up.
Agreed. You probably can’t have everything you want (or maybe even need) right away. It took me quite a while to build up the collection of tools that I needed to do a lot of my modeling. But if you buy a little at a time (and take care of it) it’ll last you a good long time, and maybe even outlast you.
All hobbies cost “more” money than they did in the past. An AM transitor radio cost under $6 in the 60s when I was a teenager. We used it of course to listen to music. A pair of bluetooth air pods cost over $100! Add the monthly charge for internet and another charge for your favorite music app. No, the complaint is unrealistic.
About a year or two ago, I was really serious about switching from HO to O. While I didn’t have much room for anything but a _small_ O switching layout, I started selling a LOT of my old Athearn “blue box” and MDC/Roundhouse cars, all with Kadee couplers and wheels, light weathering, for $5, at a local model railroad club. A few cars even had NWSL wheels in them. Athearn trucks were replaced with MDC trucks-Athearn trucks of that era were terribly wide for Kadee wheels but adding washers to the axles looked awful so they were replaced. (I wasn’t a member but I knew several people.) I remarked to one of those members, “I don’t know how people get into this hobby when everything is so expensive!”. He replied, “It’s people like you who sell decent equipment at a low price.”, He was right.
I never made the transition to O scale and regretted selling those cars but I know they’re going to good homes and there’s a good chance I’ll see them running when that club has their Open House this year.
Who knows? Maybe I’ll find cars just like the ones I sold and create better versions by adding proper trucks, see through roofwalks, brass brake wheels, etc..
My next (and final?) layout will be arm pit high and only 18”-24” wide. It’ll be a great opportunity to build a few really detailed cars that I’ll actually see the details. I’m looking forward to it!
cause of budget and lack of space all my model railroad stuff in a box collecting dust
@@roberthoppock5349 I find lack of space to be much more of a problem than budget. For HO you need a dedicated room and for O a basement. No wonder N is becoming the most. popular scale. All it takes is a small closet to keep a reasonable layout.
Took over my dad's vast Lionel collection and Atlas N scale collection. We built a small 4x8 O scale layout and an L shaped 2x6 N scale layout. With all of the accessories, my 7th grade son taught himself how to solder... Love it. He's always searching Ebay for used cars, houses, lights. If we can expose them to something other than their phones good things can happen.
Absolutely! Glad to hear you've made a convert!
I fully support my Husbands hobby and he derives great satisfaction building and rebuilding his layouts. He is now 61 years and has been active in the hobby since he was 7 years old . Yet on our retirement income we and I say we find it hard to purchase new locomotives and rolling stock , yes the detail has improved out of sight but it is expensive. He models Conrail and Penn Central we will continue with the hobby . Thank you for the video
Thanks for watching and commenting!
3D printing has brought together two of my interests that used to compete: 3D modeling and model railroading. It's kept model railroading fun for me, and has gotten me into doing other aspects of the hobby I never did before. I'm 55 and am still enjoying model railroading, which started when I was a kid.
Whatever you have to do to keep it fun!
I’m 27 now and have always had a fascination with model trains. I can’t say that’s true with many others my age now but I got into the hobby young and even though I’ve been in and out of it though the years of school, college, and finding my career it’s never left me. I feel it’s a hobby of whatever you want to make of it regardless of budget. Model railroading will always be strong for those like myself that have had a lifelong fascination with trains and continue to build bigger and better layouts. To me it’s an art and will always interest people when they see a train running regardless of their background knowledge in the hobby.
This is a well thought out piece - I think in everything in life, there is a spectrum. On one side, you have time, and on the other, money. We trade one for the other in many ways. I trade my time for money through work. In the hobby, I can either buy something on the cheap and spend a lot of time, or buy something more expensive and spend little time getting it ready. It comes down to interests, and personal preferences. Our great hobby has room for those at all points on that spectrum!
This is a topic I thought about touching on in the video and decided no to in the interest of time (no pun intended). We all have limited time just by the nature of our very existence, so money vs. time is a very real balancing act.
I've always observed that what you instance is a fairly iron rule of life. You can have free time or you can have money - you'll seldom, if ever, have both.
I would like to see for example take Walthers Locos compare them side by side There are 3levels from base to highly detailed. Is the basic running gear the same or is it just the details? I started in 1970s but due to space never really got going until after 2000. I have through the years have had ( on my 4th version of my layout) It's a HO 23 in expanded with 4 cab operation. (2 up & over tracks cab 1,2 .only 4 axle locos on them ) Tons of track work but Train Club where we were located got booted It took 3yrs to build but I was running 4 cabs for our last Show/'open house. It's 8 1/2 X 11 1/2. I have a yard for each cab. I can build 1 while the other. I had an Electrical expert did the wiring. I ended cutting it into 4 pieces it's now in my Sunroom, still in 4 pieces( Waiting on a new home).
I agree completely . I’m 63 and am a modeler now. I was active in the hobby in my pre-teens when things were “so much more affordable…?” My parents laid down $40.00 for a basic, entry-level Tyco set, which is roughly $285.00 today. Compare that to Walthers’ WIFIFlyer that’s cataloged in the 2022 Reference Book for $299.98. That $6.98 AHM 1930 coach is about fifty bucks today…directly comparative to Walthers Mainline models. Granted these are throw ‘em-on-the-rails examples but to backdate your point about kids today, I can say without exaggeration, not I nor any of my eleven year old friends would’ve had any interest in frustratingly laboring over a less expensive box of wood, cardstock, wire and few castings…not one of us. To feed our hobby, we budgeted modest Detroit News route income to pick up an AHM ready to roll car or an Athearn kit as we could afford to…exactly like anyone would budget today. So, in these examples the pricing is correlative but with much more bang for the buck. Sure, there is today as there was then, “high-end,” if you want it. Then it was PFM and the like, Japanese and Korean brass; today it’s limited run DCC with sound, prototype lighting and smoke. But even now, you can buy less. I love today’s models…gorgeous…but I buy DC versions for (typically) $100+ less and am unashamed to say my railroad is still straight DC.
At the end of the day it’s just our nature to want more for less. But this hobby is as strong as it’s ever been and it’s the bells and whistles, obvious pun intended, that’ll keep it moving forward.
Lastly, I must add that I appreciate your video as much for how it was presented as I do for its content: rational, thoughtful and deliberative; thank you.
Thanks for the kind comments. And for the comparative insights.
And for the record there is no shame in a DC layout. I know plenty of people who have them.
Ok, one thing people forget when they start adjusting prices for inflation is that income hasn't scaled along with it. Something that cost $10 in 2000 may cost $17 now, but jobs that pay $20 an hour back then still only pay $20 an hour.
@@VestedUTuber Everything, everywhere, is like that though. It is not a phenomenon unique to the model railroad hobby. There are larger endemic economic issues driving this across the board...
@@jaeger4540
Never said it was unique to the hobby.
@@jaeger4540that's why a lot of hobbies have declined.
Great show. I started model railroading at 68 with 3 or 4 pieces and 2 years later I have 150 pieces of rolling stock, a handsome layout, and put it on public display in the town of Nicholson, PA. The exhibit has a full unique view of the Tunkhannock Viaduct, the world's largest concrete and steel reinforced railroad trestle in the world, built in 1912-1915. It turned an aging, neglected Main Street into a new and unique source of pride in the town, and has become the new focal point of our annual Bridge Day celebration every September. The outpouring of interest and the attention it has brought to the community simply can't be measured. It is located at the corner of State Street an Main Street and is available for viewing 365 days a year. Thanks and enjoy the hobby.
People who say trains are too expensive to entice kids these days need a reality check. Have they bought someone a lego set lately? That’s a lot of money for a plastic brick or wheel. Or go buy some Paw Patrol or other branded dolls. Yes trains can be expensive but compared to other toys or specialty hobbies? It’s all relative. It’s only expensive if you don’t want to spend that much.
As you probably know I love Lego but yes the prices can take my breath away.
Actually, I did get a lego set recently. $20 for 800 pieces. That's cheap! Other hobbies aswell. I got a Volvo excavator for $20, a model of USS Missouri for $30, and a kit (Yamato) for $150. Shoot for making aircraft carrier Shinano (Yamato hull No. 3) that $150 will come in handy. But I digress. I work a standard 8 hour shift & just play my cards right. Trains are a liability to those trying to come in & get established on there own. Mad that kids are going to Philly to see New Jersey & Olympia? Maybe it'd help if the locomotives came in less expensive forms, (kits) so that those kids can practice the skills need to paint, weather, handle, maintain, etc. can actually maintain interest & the dedication to put money into their budgets (if they can afford to). And before I get the generic "used market, kit's ain't popular" please use your search bar to see all the dioramas of trains in larger scales that are not operations based, or of high-quality. Lot's of ww2 era steam engines, but hopefully you can see how popular they are as a whole outside of DCC & road specific details.
@@ThePixelDepotLLCagreed. I like Lego too
Go buy a 800to 1000 dollr traxxas rc just to have I break first run out
I’m 35 and just now getting back into the hobby after leaving it 20 years ago for school, college and starting my career. I came back and I am thoroughly impressed with the level of detail as well as the DCC and sound aspects. When I left I had no idea what DCC and sound was but now that im back I am definitely investing in the DCC and Sound because I want that realism. Yes, it’s expensive but for me it’s worth it. I want that ultra realistic layout where you have a hard time figuring out if it’s a model or not. The static grass and other realistic scenery is so much better than that green powder people used to use as “grass.” Im a firm believer in you get what you pay for. I am still in the workforce so I don’t have all the time in the world; I also don’t have all the money either but honestly I’m willing to work overtime to get the locomotives I want. Keeps me motivated. I don’t think the hobby is dying. Honestly I think it’s better than it used to be. Technology has made it more interesting in my opinion. The way these companies keep coming out with better details, lights, and sounds for their locomotives, they’re gonna have me on the hook for awhile. 😅
Great video, Joe! Thanks for sharing this. I've been into seriously modeling trains since the mid 1990s and I had Tyco trains as a kid in the 1970s, and yes prices have increased. But you are right that the quality and prototypical realism of models offered now is almost unbelievable when compared to what was available just 30 years ago. No matter what the manufacturers produce or where their pricing is, you will always have some people who just have to complain about something. Let them feel the way they feel and just enjoy your model layout and your trains the way that you want to. And keep sharing these informative and interesting videos knowing there are thousands of us out there who appreciate and very much enjoy them!
Thanks, Troy. I plan to keep going for a while yet. 🙂
I grew up with model railroading in the 70's and 80's, introduced model railroading to my kids in the 90's and went from N scale to 7-1/4" gauge.
I might add to what you said by stating what I think you were implying. A hobby is as expensive as you make it. Someone gave me a bundle of broken flex track once, so I learned to hand lay N scale track and switches. I had a blast doing it and it cost me less than new track cost at the time.
I also had a short time when I did G gauge but the reason I got rid of it is because I figured out that the cost per foot of track was about the same as 7-1/4" gauge track, which is what I really wanted in the first place. All of a sudden, I realized that a hurdle I thought was there was just an assumption. Over a decade, I built 1024 feet of track and spent about $7 per foot. I built my own cars from scratch, bought a locomotive chassis, built a body on top of it and I've since built two more locomotives and several cars. I didn't have the money to do it the easy way and spend tens to hundreds of thousands on a high end locomotive and in a way, I'm glad I didn't. Scratch building was within my budget and I got a lot more enjoyment out of it.
Back on the indoor models: 3d printers have made scratchbuilding way easier to get a high quality model and made the process more enjoyable.
Model railroading isn't dead or dying. It's alive and growing.
In short: you're absolutely right.
That’s an interesting road you followed. 🙂
Very good rant. Agree with most of it. You also forgot to mention that most model HO and N model train engines have DCC, or are DCC ready. A basic decoder cost $20.00 and a starter DCC system cost about $200.00 Today even N has available sound. The track is nickel silver rather than brass and most come with plastic base track that is easy to assemble and reliable. These were unavailable in the 90s. Of course you can still go back to the future at any train show or even a yard sale and find used trains, track, power supplies, and train sets are almost being given away. Most in perfect or excellent shape. Just don't expect modern electronics. The real threat to MRR is drones, VR, video gaming and computer gaming systems, houses getting smaller, and rents too high for MRR clubs to keep a permanent layout.
I have always been fascinated by model railroads. The biggest reasons that I never really got into it is a lack of time to devote to it, a lack of space for even a basic size layout, a lack of artistic ability, and a lack of funds. The price of the equipment for this hobby is kind of prohibitive, but the other reasons are the real reasons that I don’t pursue this hobby. Plus there are some nice inexpensive railroad simulations for PC available now that are reasonably priced, don’t take up any room, and don’t require artistic ability and a lot of time.
Well said Joe. Sure things cost more but everything costs more, it doesn't matter what it is now. Keep doing what your doing, love the videos.
Thanks, Ace! I appreciate the encouragement!
I had my share of H0 railroad stuff as a kid which I mostly later sold. Recently, during the pandemic, I got into brick-built model railroading ("Lego" bricks for laymen, but there are several more new companies emerging offering specific brick railroad products just in the last couple of years) although I never was into Lego that much as a kid and did not even give a thought to it during the past 25 years. But once I saw one of the new train sets coming out in 2020, I tried it out - and it got me hooked.
Several differences to regular model railroading:
- You can build anything - yes, anything - you imagine like that, without having to be a master craftsman/woman. Of course this is also important for children.
- You can tackle themes no commercial model railroad producer offers, for example I am currently building Indian Railways.
- Even if you get a commercial set, you have to build it yourself, you don't just unpack it and run it.
- It is much cheaper overall, and durable - if you break one piece (which is very difficult to achieve), it can be replaced for a few cents, a few dollars at most if it is a motor or something.
- It is a challenge to achieve the shape you want with pre-determined pieces, you can play around for weeks to build only a single model. Of course, the downside, some shapes may never be achieved or some of it might not look that realistic.
- Trains are huuuuge (which is an upside and downside at the same time, depends on how you look at it).
Oh, trust me, I am a big fan of Lego, going way back! I even use it in my modeling: ua-cam.com/video/PDHj2PUD4cU/v-deo.html
@@ThePixelDepotLLC Great! 🙂
Hi Joe, that wasn't a rant, that was a well-thought-out response to one of "the good old days were better" fellows. I would rather pay more upfront for a good complete product than get an engine, then a decoder, then detail parts, etc. I am pretty good at what I do, but I can't do as well as the factory. I often joke that we call it a "layout" because we lay out fifty and a hundred dollars at an alarming rate, but it is a LOT cheaper than collecting classic cars. It may have been Allen McClelland who once said that no one gets into a hobby to save money. I would rather buy my engines and build my own structures, scenery, and signal systems. Which is prototypical since no railroad builds their own equipment anymore. I think we are in a marvelous age of model railroading with DCC and the explosion of inexpensive detail parts from 3-D printers. Oh, and the UA-cam videos are a lot of fun and inspirational as well.
I have bought locos and then added a decoder and speaker afterwards but that was only because I got an amazing deal in the engine (it was actually CR1670 that I did the weathering video on a while back). But yes, I’d rather get it from the factory if possible. You are right about the “layout” part! 🙂
You made very good and valid points. Some people forget about inflation price differences from 1970, 1980, 1990, 2007 & 2022. Technology on the Model Trains has IMPROVED when it comes to realistic features and quality.
The hobby has come a long way in the 120 years it's been around. It all comes down to the individual and what they're willing to put into it. Price... I do possess a few "new" engines and rolling stock. I have no problems buying used. If it looks good and runs good, I'm in. Train shows, eBay, and train groups on social media. Just a few of the places I acquire things. There's a multitude of places to get things at a discount price. A big one I check while I'm browsing online stores is the clearance section. It's a hobby, not a job. When it becomes the latter, people get disenfranchised. That sour taste in the mouth kicks in.
Ok, that's enough. This was a great video. And here I thought it was something I said. 🤣
Great call! I’ve gotten some great deals from various “clearance sections” of online sites.
It was nothing you said… this time. You’ll have other opportunities! 🤣
Well said. I am a member of several model RR clubs and now my hobby has become a full time career, time to cut back and restore it as a hobby.
I'm in two model railroad clubs. In one, we've recently acquired two new members, nine and ten y.o. Their parents are happy to see them enthusiastic about something other than video games. The other, we set up our modules at train shows for running, as that seems to be what the younger crowd wants to see. Operations are mainly done on a home layout. Depending on what your tastes/preferences/goals are, model rr'g does not have to break the bank. With lots of used equipment available at shows and hobby shops, a roster can be had for pretty reasonable prices. Locos under $100 (LOTS in the $50-$80 range), rolling stock starting under $10. Again, depending on what you're after, prices can vary greatly. Want DCC & sound? Expect double+ the loco prices above. If you are fortunate enough to have deep pockets, new DCC & sound locos are as much as $300 +/-. With such a wide range of options, eras, equipment available, still a great hobby to enjoy!
Bravo! Glad to see your clubs have recognized what draws the younger crowd and is catering to it. Deals are out there to be had. Especially at smaller shows and white elephant tables.
Preordered my first n scale locomotive from kato, i plan on installing the sound myself in ordered to hopefully reduce cost instead of buying the trains with sound.
@@Aetherbound You're braver than me! I'm not sure I have the steadiness (or patience) to install sound in an N Scale loco!
@@Aetherbound Yeah, kind of six of one, half dozen of another. Cost of preinstalled DCC & sound vs cost of loco, board, speaker, and installation (unless you diy).
I got lucky got an in the box. red box DCC with sound for $50 on eBay . Worked great with my digitrax controller I picked up for $80. Got 2 old-school DCC athearns a DT&I and N&W. Haven't tried to put on program track. Didn't have DCC at time I got them in the lot. But bypassed the DCC and was dirty but worked great. Need to reinstall 1 it wasn't all wired in someone took it apart and I assume broke cpl connections. And if someone feels venturous you can find DCC setups on eBay to I bought 1 for $10. Shipping free.
yes it is more costly now than when I started in the early 50's. But even tho I collect social security only now, I can still have fun in this "WORLD'S GREATEST HOBBY"
Agreed. It's a matter of setting a budget, being selective, and choosing wisely.
You have made a great video. You are correct about the hobby being growing.. look at all the new manufacturers in the last 10 years. If the hobby wasn't growing No one would make the investment in new product. Besides you can go to a train show and still get Athearn blue box engines and cars for a reasonable price. Must have been a grumpy old man who lives in the past. I am 67 so I qualify as old and I don't think the hobby is dying. Keep up the good work
Thanks, Geoff! I agree. There are so many new manufacturers and new products. Too many to count. And in so many areas: locos, rolling stock, detailed structures in many different materials, better and more varied scenery materials than ever, 3D printed items, and more. I didn't want to make any assumptions about the age of the commenter, but I was leaning toward the same thought as you. 😉
Well, good video. I have just moved from that "working" life to the "retired" life. Since money is not there like it used to be, but I've always been the type that looks for low-cost options. Keep up the good work and really enjoy your videos.
Thanks for the compliment on the videos! We all have a budget to stay within, so smart choices will win the day.
A few years ago when I was going through trade school I was very very fortunate and was able to work part time at a local model train store, a rarity in these days. Of course most of our customers were older but we did have a pretty healthy number of younger customers split between highschool and college age. What I noticed from their spending habits was that they would save up for one really nice high end locomotive if they could and then fill out the rest of their modest fleets with more affordable offerings. One item that sold very well to that age group were the Walthers mainline series locomotive with DCC and sound. The one worrying trend that I noticed even before the pandemic hit was the somewhat sudden but alarmingly rapid rate at which some manufacturers were raising their prices. Bachmann was the worst for this since they took their N scale freight equipment which was nowhere near as good as what Micro Trains offers for about $25-30 and started to sell if for up to $45 per car. It used to be that bachmann could be counted on for decent but affordable N scale steam but their most recent offering of the 2-8-0 retailed is listed for an eye watering $430. That's only a few dollars off from Athearn's Big Boys and Challengers. Offering high end products is one thing but I'm worried that it will also go along with a disappearance of affordable entry level offerings.
Now what I think will change and greatly help out the hobby in the future is the growing rise of 3D printing and the growing popularity of Free-Mo clubs. 3D printing is making it possible for people to make models that look just as good as something from a big manufacturer in their own garage and as the equipment gets more affordable and more capable I think that it will make for a resurgence in the kitbashing and scratchbuilding communities. Free-Mo is where I think the big hook for the younger generation is going to be. While video games and the digital world as a whole are a significant competitor what I have noticed is that there are people who want more of a human connection in their hobbies and model train clubs are great at that. Before the pandemic hit I was fortunate enough to attend a train show with the local Free-Mo N chapter. I didn't bring any modules of my own but I did help set up and I was able to run my own steam freight consist with some cars that I had weathered myself. It was genuinely some of the most fun that I've ever had in the hobby and now that I've moved into my own place I'm working hard on getting my own modules built. And part of the beauty of Free-Mo is that you can build sections if not all of your at home layout to be Free-Mo compliant so that when a show does roll around you can take your at home layout and display it at show along with what everyone else in the group has built. That is something that I think could really help bring in more younger people into the crowd since it would give them the ability to make a budget friendly switching layout for use at home that can be taken on the road and then used as part of a large display layout at a show.
So while the hobby of course has it's own problems I'm still hopeful that it will be able to attract new members and keep on going along.
I'd love to run a hobby shop, but I'm not sure the economics are there in this day and age.
@@ThePixelDepotLLCagreed Fremo is a great idea
Great insight! I've been hearing my entire life from some people that the hobby is dying and it won't be around by the time I'm an "old folk." I'm still a youngster of 43 years. But, the hobby has never seemed better and brighter than it is now! Sure, it has changed a lot- in more ways that we could have imagined. But, I think mostly for the better.
I agree. I was at a train show today and business was brisk. Lots of people carrying things around. In HO it ranged from Blue Boxes to the latest and greatest.
You can still have a ton of fun on a shoestring budget. You just can't get the newest and the shiniest
Exactly. I had a friend tell me long ago "When you're on a budget you can have anything you want. But you can't have everything you want."
Your statement about the dyed sawdust etc opened the floodgates to many memories of watching a scene appear by my hand. Thank you
It was all we had!
Great video, Joe. Yes, a lot in this hobby is expensive, but there are almost less expensive alternatives for everything. Like some have said, you can still find older equipment at shows, hobby shops or online for cheap. Or looking at it a different way, you can buy a nice loco like your GP38-2, buy 10-15 nice pieces of rolling stock, a starter DCC set and build a excellent small switching layout that will give you years of enjoyment. See Lance Mindheim;s East Rail for an example of that (not to mention many others).
I do think a fault of the hobby press is the focus on large basement-sized layouts. It gives the impression that you have to think along those lines, when very often something smaller will scratch the itch. I'm lucky enough to have space for a larger layout, but if I was in an apartment, something the size of The Grunge would keep me pretty happy.
@@ThePixelDepotLLC Maybe we need to make a new publication, Shelf Switching Layouts. White River Productions, are you out there?
I was always intrigued by models of any kind. What intrigued me most was the scenery. One day I decided to build a scenery. Purchased buildings, roads and landscape and mounted on wood. But one day I decided to throw a piece of Nscale track down on it. I made towns and everything. I threaded the telephone poles alongside the track and inserted switches. I just had scenery with track but no power.
Sounds like you had fun with that diorama.
This is the first video I have ever seen from you Joe. Stumbled on it completely by accident. And it has done the exact opposite of what you were worried it might. Rather than scare me away it has caused me to want to explore more of what you are creating. I despise gatekeeping and anyone who is willing speak out against that has my attention. 👏
Glad to have you along for the ride!
Most people who think the hobby is dying or think it’s too expensive are simply ignorant or just think the way they enjoy the hobby is dying. Period.
Your assessment is spot on! If you insert "RC Airplanes" instead of trains, you just described another hobby with the
same attributes. You don't have to be a national scale model builder or rivet counter to enjoy the hobby. There are so
many eras, models, buildings, etc. to choose from that you will find a niche that suits your interests. You forgot to \
mention online auctions and swap shops where you can get deals on engines, rolling stock, and other items that you
don't need to be a millionaire to buy what you need. Keep up the good work!
A couple of people have mentioned RC planes. Glad I never got into that hobby!
I'd always wanted a model train. Years ago bought 2 transformers, track, about 8 locomotives & a bunch of other rolling stock (all N scale). I just retired & have room in my basement. I'm lousy with my hands. Your videos are really good. Thanks & I'll try to follow tips you give & that people give in comments. Mark Small, Indy.
Good luck Mark! Keep me posted!
Thanks for standing up for the hobby.
Years ago I bought a house and was planning to build a HO layout in my basement. Moved into the house and then life happened. I no longer have the available room, money, nor eyesight to participate in the hobby. Cost is relative, as I found out. Instead of a model railroad in my basement, I have a model railroad on my computer. I make "layouts" in the game "Transport Fever 2." When I get tired of a layout I can change it without all the hard work and money needed. The hobby isn't dead nor is it dying. It is just taking different forms and levels that expand the choices available to everyone interested. After all, it is the love of railroading that drives all in this hobby!
What you’re doing is just as valid as those that are physically building something. And like you said, much easier to make changes!
I couldn’t agree more. Most manufacturers of locomotives and rolling stock have different levels of detail and price. Great video as always. Thanks 😊
I absolutely, whole heartedly agree 100% this is a conversation that needs to be had with more people. Thank you for the video!
This video seems to have started quite the conversation!
@The Pixel Depot if you're ever interested in discussing it more, I'd enjoy the opportunity.
Hey, Joe! I've been an avid model railroader for 70 years now. My first train was a wind-up Marx tinplate affair, with a circle of track, which I "inherited" when my Dad got an American Flyer set and built a 4' x 8' platform for under the Christmas tree. Of course, the wind-up model was quickly forgotten in favor of the far more interesting and realistic Flyer equipment.
When I grew older, my focus turned to HO. At some point in grade school, I was gifted with a pair of Athearn Santa Fe F7s. Cars, track and a power pack were left to me to acquire. And yes, it was expensive on a grade schooler's very limited budget. I had to cut a lot of grass (or shovel a lot of snow) to afford a coveted piece of new equipment. But the desire was strong, and I saved for what I lusted after.
After a long lull, I resumed my active model railroading in the '90s. The hobby had progressed a great deal during my absence, but so had my earning power. The quality of models had significantly improved, with more realistic details. DCC had emerged, with its much greater operating flexibility. And DCC sound, which raised realistic operations to new heights. But all of this additional realism significantly raised the cost, as well. Decent electronics, sound and LED lighting can more than double the cost of a locomotive. But the increase in realistic operating satisfaction does seem to be worth it. And so it goes.
Now, a new aspect of the hobby has emerged -- video sharing of our hobby via UA-cam -- another expense stream, if one is to do it well.
In conclusion, yes, model railroading can be expensive. But it's always been that way. All hobbies are.
Tell me about this UA-cam you speak of. Sounds interesting. 😆
Yes, if you want to add a sound decoder, expect the price to jump $100 immediately. I have a bunch of older Atals locos without sound, and where I'm leaning is pairing a sound loco with a non-sound (assuming I can get them to run together reasonably.) The sounds is usually enough from the single loco to cover both. Often when you have two sound locos running together, you can't really tell it's two, so why not lean into that and save some money in the process?
Hey Joe. Great video. I would like to add, the cost of EVERYTHING has gone up. I'm retired and on a fixed income but I can still get an older Athearn, Atlas or Kato (the list goes on) in good condition and add detail parts, tune it up and a DCC decoder for 1/2 to 3/4 of the cost of these higher end locos. Am I disappointed. Hell no. I'm having fun and teaching my grandson how it's done. There are just some people that always need to look on the down side. Your doing a great job. Keep it up.
Thanks! As long as you're having fun, that's all that matters!
An interesting video. I have had trains since I was about 3 and I am 83 now. I started with my brothers American Flyer O gauge and still have one. But I went into HO 61 years ago. I find and enjoy all facets of our hobby, but I am not a rivet counter. Price is a concern for many, but I have been working with youth in the hobby for 30 years and most find something they can do and enjoy at any price. I wish more people belonged to the NMRA who set the standards and still is a great place for information. It is hard to judge how many people are in our hobby. Thanks for the listen. Keep on railroading.
What you said about working with youth and them being able to find something they can do and enjoy is great to hear!
I have tried several times over the years to build a layout but cost has always been an issue. Nearly all of my trains were purchased at flea markets and yard sales in the 80s, so the train costs (which is arguably worse) did not affect me.
I think that the thing that hurts train modeling is the initial buy in. A starter set runs $150-$500 (depending on scale) and gives a basic loop with little (or no) accessories, which is not exactly inspiring to someone that is new to the hobby. Then, if they want even basic scenery, they are in for another $100-$1000 plus the cost of a table to put it on. And then if you want some basic functionality, like switching tracks, you discover the cost of turnouts, which are surprisingly expensive for how old the technology is that operates them.
All that amounts to a ton of time and cost, just to see if you are really interested in the hobby. I think it is too discouraging in the modern world.
I inherited a bunch of trains recently, and this time I have decided to fully commit to building the layout that I have attempted several times (although it will be in a different scale). It is still stupidly expensive, but I am old now, so I can finally afford a bit more.
My love for the hobby is still there. I prefer DC models, as that's what my over 150 locomotives are. I can get by without sounds.
I just spent a bunch of money getting my train shed ready to withstand Utah weather... Mini splits ain't cheap.
But I will have a running railroad in my 12 X 16 foot shed.
Yeah, it's disheartening that new release tank cars are 45 - 60 bucks, but I can buy a few, and mix with the oldies.
A friend of mine once said, "If the headend looks detailed, and the rear end looks detailed, no one really looks at the middle bits."
You've made the smart move. You know what you like, what you can live without (and with!). And you're right, everyone complains about the cost of the models, but lumber, wire, and all the other materials for layout building certainly haven't gone down in price, either!
@@ThePixelDepotLLC Exactly! Track, lumber, foam.... It all has a price, and it's not going down.
Travel photographer and long haul flatbed driver here. Just giving an outsider’s prospective. I enjoy watching you guys build stuff and very impressed by the detail you guys can achieve. Plus I love getting great photos off a good layout.
I am around ten plus years into my photography journey and we went through something like this about three to five years ago. With smartphones who needs these fancy heavy bodies. No one is going to pay for photos anymore. Well judging by how many new cameras went on the market this year and how many new lenses there are. You might say the hobby might be growing.
The reason our hobby got better and grew was newer technology finally hit the market that made the manufacturers change there course. It also brought a lot of good quality used gear on to the market. I laugh when I started you had to choose whether you wanted to video or photo because some manufacturers would not let you do both. Sorry off topic, it took a few manufactures that pushed RND to get the big two to finally start making better products. Now the big two are still playing catch-up.
At the end of the day both model railroading and photography are still going to be around because people enjoy doing it. You guys will finally get that moment where the hobby changes for the better. With 3d printing getting cheaper and laser cutters following suit. I feel people are more into sculpting and making there own custom terrain, vehicles and mini-figures. There just using different methods and materials. I also see more of my generation “I am thirty three” getting into the hobby. Truthfully getting kids involved is great but having us that are making an income is not a bad thing either.
Before I go one final word. Please!!!!! Don’t gate keep as bad as photographers can be. We still have people that say your not a photographer if you don’t shoot DSLR, film, medium format…… the list goes on. It takes so much joy out of the hobby.
Well I hope my ramblings help and here’s to seeing more and more beautiful layouts.
Thanks for the perspective! I have heard the same arguments about photography that you mentioned. But you know what, if the person viewing the photo can’t tell, it doesn’t matter!
Great video and true! I started in 1957 when my Dad built a 4 x 8 table with sides and got a Lionel Train set. For years, before Christmas we would go to a store that sold lightly used Lionel freight cars and get another for my layout. I still have the locomotive and cars in a box in the basement. In 1987 in our new house with a large empty basement, I started HO. My layout is complete of track and about half with scenery. I have a 36 inch minimum radius on the mainline and a 22 inch minimum radius on the branch line which is reached with a 4% Grade connecting the two. I have locomotives and cars of various lines and eras and like to run prototypically correct 40 to 70 car freight from various roads and eras. Due to medical problems, my hobby is now on "Hold" but not gone.
I also have passenger cars and appropriate locomotives.
Running brass is challenging since it is easy to introduce a short which will stop everything. Minor adjustments to the track and grade will usually solve the problem. But it can be solved and run reliably.
Great topic and one that has popped up periodically since I started really paying attention to the hobby in 1962. The first variation on this complaint I heard was in a "Blowing Off Steam" section of the NMRA Bulletin in 1969 or 1970 and the complaint was that "shake the box" kits are killing the hobby, that youngsters will get bored and in 20 years no one will have the skills needed to build a "real" model railroad. Fast forward 20 years: I was a member of a model railroad club and older members were bemoaning the fact that the brass imports were pricing them out of the hobby. Fast forward another 20 years andI started a small shelf layout and decided DCC was worth an experiment. I had been a "DCC is killing the hobby because you have to be a rocket scientist to deal with it" person. Now I'm a convert.
Bottom line, there will always be the "it was better in the good old days" crowd and nothing anyone says will convince them otherwise. (And isn't it odd that they normally hang around together and reinforce their own opinions?)
That last sentence is pretty true, yes. 🙂
I thought that was a great video! And I totally agree that the hobby isn’t on its last leg. There is so much more variety now that there’s something for everyone. And if you’re still into the models from the 70s and 80s wanna to tinker with them to make them run, they are still available! You can’t get them new obviously but a few months ago I walked into a small model train store and with $5. I walked out with a 50 year old athearn gp7 that didn’t run. I just wanted to see If I could make it run. I still prefer the cool new stuff but the old stuff is out there for anyone that wants it. Between ebay and model train stores it’s pretty easy to find. I think it’s pretty silly to say that model railroading is only for people with money and people on a budget are just out of luck.
That’s the beauty. If you like to tinker, you can. If you like to build certain things but not others, you can. And as has become clear from other comments, if you want the shiniest fancy new model, even if you’re on a budget, you’ve got some options (with planning and budgeting).
Well said. The health of a hobby can not be based on what seemed to be the norm 50 years ago. If that were true the RC Airplane hobby would be dead because very few flyers are building their planes out of balsa wood. I have returned to the hobby after 30 years and I am having fun scratch building, kit bashing and being cheap.
Glad to hear it!
Good work man! Scratchbuilding is more fun for less bucks! Totally agree!
I think what attracts me to model railroading more than RC airplanes is that model trains seldom crash and revert to being a kit again. Crashing an expensive plane or copter that took many hours and weeks to assemble is so depressing. Model trains biggest problems relate to gaining knowledge and experience. That big question, "Why, oh why won't this thing run ?" But, it sure looks great just sitting there while I work out the kinks !
@@debbiemilka2251 I totally understand. I had no problem flying. I just found that it was more fun building the planes than flying. That is what brought me back to model railroading. The building never ends, no matter the size of the layout.
I agree with your sentiments completely. I started modelling as a teenager in the 1980s. Models back then were more basic and to get an accurate model, you needed to detail. As time went on the basic standard improved but as you would expect, the price went up. Yes it's true that top end models are pricey these days but instead of buying a dozen cheap models in a year, buy two or three top link models instead. Railway modelling is a broad church and there is a place for everyone no matter your skill level or budget
I agree. A version of the Time Saver as a first layout can cost under $200 complete with second hand DC locomotive, rolling stock and scratch built structures. The best structure builder I know uses cereal boxes, dollar store paint, and a variety of bric-a-brac to create an absolutely astounding layout. He puts his money into rolling stock and highly details them himself. Getting started is half the problem but it can be done on a budget.
Great video. My first on your channel. I like your defense of the hobby. Everyone starts somewhere, kids learn to earn to reach their hobby goals. Keep showing them how. Master hobbyists have a lot to offer to the next generation. I learned years ago “Don’t budget for others on your wallet. You don’t know their means.”
Glad you found the channel! I’m happy to defend the hobby and share with people what I know.
I think your comments are spot on - I am 63 Y.O. and still have my first N Scale locomotive from 1985 that I bought in London on a working holiday. It doesn't run anymore (nor do I!) but I still am in N Scale. All hobbies are an expense of sorts and if you look at the prices of plastic aircraft or ship kits these days, they are pricey as well. I feel that the internet and the pandemic has seen an upsurge in hobbies like ours because, even something extremely basic can be fun and tremendously rewarding...it is a strong hobby and blows people away who have never been involved before - UA-cam can be testamount to that..
More power to you as an N scaler! I find it too small for my aging eyes. HO gives me the right level of size and detail (for me).
thank you, Joe, for posting.... many ways to keep hobby costs low: for $20 you can buy a used and running Athearn GP-9 and a string of Kadee coupled freight cars at $5 - $10 apiece, an old 60's DC MRC transformer for 5 to 8, a circle of used Atlas nickel silver sectional track for less than 10, and used hand switches for less than 5 apiece under the vendor tables at many shows.... the surviving spouse of a deceased model railroading can sometimes be intercepted
on her (or his) way to the dump.... my advice: start with simple DC-run loop with a switch or two and a bridge or two
to keep it interesting and never glue or nail down anything permanently. Use styrofoam whenever possible and get lost in those junk boxes, stacks of old MR and RMC magazines, for ideas.
There are deals to be found out there.
This is the first video I've seen of your channel and it very nicely done. Plus I totally agree with you. The variety of rolling stock you get these days is crazy, and as for the price; no one is forcing you to buy it! Keep up the good work....stay safe everyone.
All good points! Thanks for the kind words!
Thanks for the insights. I've been a "modeler" for over 70 years but until this year have never set up a layout with track, running stock, and (heaven forbid) scenery and buildings. Part of my reason why that has been so is because my dad was in the army--and we moved a lot. That meant not having a true layout because, well, it would never have traveled well. In fact, most of my setups were "built" on the carpet or floor of wherever we lived, only to be dismantled them it was time to go to bed. In fact, I have purchased and then sold/given away close to 14 sets of trains, beginning with Marklin (predecessor of the Kato format and given to me for the first Christmas that I remember) through to Lionel and then Fleischmann (which I feel is one of the first "true" prototypical rail systems) all the way to Bachmann and now Kato. I have never lost my interest in modeling a railroad, so this year I am finally doing it, thanks to Woodland Scenics' kits that provide all the materials to build a full-fledged layout without taking up a lot of space, and I am finding that building such a layout "from scratch" has been both rewarding and challenging. While it will never be a "show" setup matters not to me. It's the running of the train(s) as well as the enjoyment of creating my own "personal world" that gives me pleasure. If I can manage to add lighting and electronic switching and signaling, so much the better.
Side note to show what a nut I was about trains: When I was seven years old, my mom was pregnant with a baby that became my first brother. As it turned out, the night came (winter, no less) when my soon-to-be brother decided to make his entry into the world, and the family jumped into the family car to make the 60-mile trip to Ft. Sheridan (we lived in Chicago then) which had the closest military hospital. On the way (it was not only snowy but also quite dark), my mom, sitting in the front seat, kept reminding my dad to "go faster--the baby is coming" while I was in the back seat urging him to go faster so we'd keep up with the express train chugging along on the adjacent rail line (Chicago and Northwestern). Finally my day told both of us to "shut up. I've already nearly got the gas pedal through the floor! There is no way in hell I can go any faster!" Two hours later my dad came out from the hospital and told me (I'd been told to stay in the car) that I "did indeed have a brother. Now go to sleep!" I never found out whether Dad was glad he'd made it or whether he was glad to have a second son.
Everything is more expensive, but the details on newer stuff is incredible, being on fixed income has curtailed my ability ti acquire many items.I just buy the stuff I really want and can afford.I would like to buy more but I can't so I pass on a lot of items. I have chosen to improve the models I have to bring them up to an acceptable level for my needs.
I think you have to buy wisely no matter what your budget.
Good points, and I agree with them. I remember people (egos) saying that digital photography was going to cause a great downfall in that field... yet, it's still alive and filled with innovation! Thanks for sharing
Digital has made it much easier for people to get into photography and experiment without the need to spend a fortune on film processing. It took a while for the quality to get to a point where film cameras were, but they have now for sure.
Wow! I just turned 70 in September. That poor guy who complained about the “promo” is so out of touch with “today”. Absolutely everything you said on the video I agree with.
I would rather scratch a building, weather a piece of rolling stock or operate the layout then scratch build a locomotive. I got my 1st trains at 7, started modeling in high school and started painting brass after college in 1974. I have heard the hobby is dying, the members are too old and the young people are getting priced out. Obviously not true.
I have 800+ Facebook friends that are supposed to be Model Railroaders. Everyday I get a birthday announce. I’m not counting but I have very few FB modeling railroading friends that are over 55. This hobby isn’t dying, it’s in its golden age.
Great video Joe
I did feel that the commenter was out of touch, and that was my primary point. Anyone that thinks that today’s kids are looking at things the same way we did decades ago is deluded.
Your video just happened to pop up so I watched it . Probably because I watch videos my model train enthusiast friend back in the UK sends me . He’s in a club in Chesham England where they have got some great layouts that come out and get stored after every meeting , an art in it self . They put on a show every year and it gets people of all ages , hopefully this coming year is back on after Covid .
I do choke when he tells me the cost of his latest Locos with all the bells and whistles but I can see putting sound in them takes it to another level . We personally have a Christmas village which has expanded over the last 30 years or so which now has the Hornby Christmas layout on it , totally not too scale but who cares it’s Christmas . My friend over the last few years has sent me a new Loco , carriage with lights and a coal wagon with my name on it which probably tripled the cost of our Set .
A few years back I picked up a box of old rolling stock for $25 Canadian just to get a very old O gauge loco because it looked really nice ( Kraus , weighs a ton ) . I ended up bringing my friend the rest of the box . Took a bit of explaining at the airport security in my carryon . Just to say it’s great to have hobbies and interests and depending where you are in your life you can budget accordingly . My collection of choice is slot cars too many for the wife to count , but still appreciate a model train layout of any size .
Thanks for watching and for your comment. I hope you'll subscribe and see what else I have to offer.
In my experience, the problem with "toy trains" was always the need for a "layout". If you don't have the space for a "layout" all you can do is set up the track, watch the train go round and round for a while, then put everything away. It is not long before the train set is put away for good. This happened with my train set when I was a kid and my daughter's train set when I was a parent.
You can have a layout that is small, small enough to put on a couple of shelves and keep out all the time. You won’t get to go round in a loop, but you certainly operate. See my series on The Grunge: ua-cam.com/video/sTP4FXpX_r0/v-deo.html
FABULOUS VIDEO!!!
I've been a collector of HO-scale Marklin trains for approximately 45 of my 52 years. When compared to 90 percent of other HO-scale suppliers, they have always been more expensive. However, they have survived typical adolescent "roughhousing", extreme temperatures in a minimally insulated attic in the Northeast USA, and the jostling of multiple moves, set-ups and take-downs. My equipment has lasted, so I don''t mind that I paid a little extra.
As for model railroading being a rich person's hobby...balderdash. Over the last 30 years, we have been given additional ways to find more budget-friendly items through the internet: eBay, craigslist, et al, not to mention finding stores that may offer better pricing than local shops. (I've kept expanding my collection through eBay.) Although a lot of people love the feeling of "new and in a box", getting pre-owned stuff is a GREAT way to save money. (The web also has places to source replacement parts, and videos to help repair things, should that be needed.)
Like you said, any hobby is going to require some sort of time and money; it's all justified by the sizes of the grins.
There are lots of places to find bargains. And you’re right, having easy access to replacement parts is a great benefit, too.
@@ThePixelDepotLLC I just bought a turntable for about 25 percent of the cost of a new one through eBay. Just waiting to get it, and will let you know how it turns out.
Just got the turntable today.
OH. MY. GOSH.
To say the turntable is in good shape, would be a MAJOR understatement! Even the original box (probably as old as me--if not older) is in fabulous shape.
I haven't plugged it in yet, but I feel like a kid on Christmas!!!
Consider this, back in the late 50s Kalbach published a book "Small Model Railroads You Can Build". Every one of them was a basic loop with a siding or two. One of the articles even mentioned using Asbestos paste for scenery. We've come a long way. Thank goodness.
The problem with the basic loop (in my opinion) is that you get bored very quickly. I was never convinced by the “go around x times” to simulate distance. I guess my brain isn’t wired that way.
@@ThePixelDepotLLC Agreed
Well said and I like you bringing up the fact that every hobby one could do has a cost. I like to do woodworking also and now am getting into smoking and bbq and my goodness, the amount one could spend in those two hobbies dwarfs model railroading (unless you want all brass stuff). The hobby, and society in general, has moved past the lets construct this from scrap parts I got from a bin.
Most people are looking for something with a hobby that is unique to them. I used to like visiting layouts and watching the trains run through well done scenery, not really paying attention to what/where they were going. Then I operated on a layout at an NMRA regional meet and it completely opened my eyes to that side of the hobby to the point I was having as much fun operating on plywood Pacifics as I was on fully scenic layouts.
Every now and then you get this type of comment from someone, usually a "club member" who doesn't understand why their membership keeps diminishing. I inquired at our local club about joining, willing to learn the aspects of the hobby when I could based on family commitments. I was given a checklist of what I needed to build and present to the club's board before I could become a member. Same with a local NTRAK group. I decided to start, slowly, a HCD layout instead and am working through the intricacies (complexity I probably shouldn't have added) of that as I learn about trackwork, scenery, wiring, etc. As soon as I can, I will operate it because that's what I find I get the most enjoyment out of but I want the "stage" to be believable so scenery will come, albeit, more slowly than it otherwise might if that was what I liked most.
That’s no club I’d want to be part of. When I was in a club we welcomed anyone who was interested, no experience necessary. Of course that was after we ousted a bunch of elitists who thought they were MR gods.
Glad you discovered operations. It’s my favorite part of the hobby!
There is so much used equipment out there, you can get started for a reasonable amount. Once you get started you can always upgrade.
I think most people start on the cheaper side of things. No one I know started by dropping hundreds all at once.
Interesting video Joe. Here in the UK, Hornby have been marketing train sets aimed at youngsters, which has to be a good thing. They are also marketing starter sets for slightly older children.
We all have to start somewhere and by today’s standards these sets are not seriously expensive and a great way to introduce youngsters to this marvellous hobby.
As for the “last legs comment” I think it’s the same old story,nostalgia for a bygone age that never really existed. It’s the same with war-gaming (playing with toy soldiers 😁) reports of its imminent demise have been circulating for as long as I can remember and yet new ranges appear on the market and are for the most part successful.
I prefer your more reasoned and optimistic approach. As long as a hobby is fun it’s going to thrive and prosper. Some will be able to spend more than others, but it’s always been that way.
Cheers
Keith
I had heard others report that Hornsby’s product line _was_ on the pricey side for the most part. But starter sets are a good thing, as long as they’re quality.
Good rant! I too have been in the hobby for 63 years. I have just finished the initial build on my third (and probably last) layout. If you want to get into the hobby at a reasonable cost, join a club! Our club caters to HO and N scale modelers. These layouts have been constructed so that they are transportable so that we can present them at train shows within our region. When not travelling, either the HO or the N scale layout will be set up to run in our club room so that our members who do not have their own layout can run on the club layout. This means that they only need to buy a locomotive and rolling stock in their preferred scale and enjoy the hobby with the rest of us!
I joined a club early on so I could learn. And I did learn a lot of different things. Enough that I can prattle on in UA-cam videos! (Although I did a lot of reading, too!)
@@ThePixelDepotLLC Yeah, we are being evicted from our current location in a city mall, and at the last club meeting, started scouting new locations. We are looking for a big enough space so that we can run workshops and show people what can be done in the hobby. We may not have the club layouts operating for a few months until we find a location, but we will still be running the local model train show the third week in February. Also our swap meets every six months!
An old man here.
Always been interested in model railroading since my parents got me a Lionel set in 1952. Never really had a layout other than a simple loop on a sheet of plywood or two. But "a layout" was on the bucket list.
Had a great time building it. Money was no real object. But, it's done. And, after not too long a time, it became a bore. I rarely-to-never run trains any longer and plan to dismantle the layout. The fun was in the building and the acquisition of higher end stuff I never had as a child.
Did you build it with operations in mind? I find that “round and round” layouts get boring really quickly. That said, I know a bunch of guys that live to build but not operate. Like you, it’s the building part that they love.
The 1917 ad depicted a locomotive for $5. Five dollars in 1917 is equivalent to around $80-$84 today.
I'm 26 and had an HO scale layout when I was a kid. I'm now building a roughly 1600 square feet layout in the loft of one of my barns. Totally insulated, sealed, and reflected the building. I figure I'll spend $100k before I'm anywhere near done. So, I've set a budget of $200 a week towards it. For most people my age, probably means a little overtime at work or a side business. $200 a week is almost $11k a year. I have nowhere near enough time to spend that much money on this hobby so I figure it's a reasonable price tag to revive my childhood dream.
Sounds like it will be one heck of a room.
Thank you for this video. I was in the hobby in the past, but switched to woodworking, back in the early 90's. I should have stayed with it part time. I am retired now and kick myself every day for the items I no longer have. I would like to have a small switching layout again, but that is still on my to do list.
Check out the series on "The Grunge": ua-cam.com/video/sTP4FXpX_r0/v-deo.html
I was a professional model painter in the 70's and 80's and did mostly brass. S.P passenger equipment was my passion. I was among the "rivet counters" and I would paint brass passenger cars for guys who imported them and trade paint jobs for cars.
When I was a kid, Soho brass cars were the first cars that I can recall that we thought were the bee's knees. Then they kept getting more detailed and more detailed until today they are unbelievably like their prototypes. Today, for example, you can get the Espee cars that were rebuilt with stainless sides and a red stripe. You would have had to do a lot of scratch building to simulate them back then. Now, the model version is incredible. This effect was impossible many years ago. Bu an HO S.P train of those cars today would set you back a month's pay.
Simultaneous to the brass getting better and costlier, plastic cars got more detailed. Walthers and Athearn passenger equipment rivals the best of earlier brass cars. I have a plastic City of San Francisco and am very happy with it. I knew a guy when I was a kid who had an Athearn Super Chief with their old cars painted silver and Warbonnet F's. It wasn't accurate but it was fun. Just fun. No rivet counting, just fun. I've often felt that American Fl,yer and Lionel toy trains were actually more fun because you just enjoyed them as trains.
Those Lionel and AF trains did allow you to just run without much fuss, but there are probably as many definitions of what’s fun in the hobby as there are hobbyists. 🙂
You didn't drive me away, quite the contrary, I'm now a subscriber! I agree on every point you made, and I think this is an important conversation. How do we get young people interested in the hobby? We help guide and show them how to enjoy it. Train shows, train clubs, workshops...all great avenues to this purpose and all are happening with gusto as we speak. Case in point, my family introduced me to the hobby when I was young, and I returned to it as an adult. I now run three heirloom locomotives on my layout, some over 70 years old, and my children will have those PLUS everything I will leave them. Keep up the good work, and I look forward to more like this. Don't be afraid to discuss important topics in our hobby. Your points are well thought out and articulated well.
Glad to have you along! And yes, getting young people interested is key. I wish more would stay with it through their teen and early adult years, but that's always been the case. As long as they come back, we're good!
I work for a radio station and just like model railroading, I have been hearing for years how we are on our way out. Not anytime soon for either. What worries me is how it appears (may just be me) that the industry is very shy about social media. For instance, a new model gets released. Why are there not tons of detailed photos released online when a model hits the market? In most cases, you have to dig through UA-cam to find someone who bought the product and did their own review in order to see what it actually looks like. Kato posting one single photo of their Big Boy in N Scale is a good example. One photo. That's it. No other photos to be found on the Kato website or their social pages.
I don’t know whether the manufacturers don’t understand social media or if they think the target audience doesn’t. Either way, you’re right. They could be targeting social media much more.
@@ThePixelDepotLLC they need to maybe make more contests to encourage kids to make their own towns too
Hello, I am a 14 year old getting into the hobby. I don’t have much money, I’m even below the legal working age, but I’m saving my money to buy parts for a full layout. Just wanted to let you know that we definitely do exist ;)
I’m really glad to hear it and glad you found the channel!
The best part of modelling is it can be many different things to different people. It moves and evolves over time.
It even moves and evolves for a person. I know that what I like, enjoy, and spend time on has changed over time.
@@ThePixelDepotLLC yes. Very much so
Great talk, I agree 100% on what you said. And by the way that "Under budget" proud bunch can be found in any hobby/activity, is part of what they enjoy from the hobby, they just forget that each modeler has the right to enjoy a different aspect of the hobby. They should not be pushing others to have the same taste. My layout, my rules
If that’s what they enjoy, fine. I don’t turn my nose up at them, and expect the same from them.
Well said. I think those are pretty well grounded observations. Even as an S guager, there is a really good amount of product available right now. Coupled with 3d printing there are lots of available options.
If this isn't the golden age, it's got to be close!
It's about time that someone stood and said what you did in the video, many people tear down the hobby from the inside. I have been in the hobby for 60 years and like the electrical side of the hobby and automation, Not every one's interest but it is my interest. I like the loco's and rolling stock that is of good quality that is about today and don't think I could ever scratch build anything but give me a role of withe and a few switches I will make the layout talk.
Happy to mouth off!
Great, Great, video ... one of the BEST I have seen in a long time ! ! ! Thank You so much for your honesty and pure FACTS. Everything cost more today, not just model trains and you have to give the people what they want. What you said ( and it needs to be said ) is absolutely TRUE. THANK YOU. ... Respectfully, George (a railroad modeler of 65+ years),
Thanks, George, I really appreciate that!
When it come s to the costs of hobbies, my dad was a super golfer, so good that he was a scratch player - no handicaps. His raw score was his adjusted score. Every Spring, he'd schedule an afternoon with his club pro, who would analyze his swing and offer improvements and what to work on to improve his game. They were friends, but it wasn't cheap. The day finally came that the pro told him, that if he was to improve his game, he needed custom made clubs. So, he found a builder who would do that, taking into account dad's height, weight, arm length and Lord knows what else. That was multi-thousand dollars - but he was happy and used them the rest of his life, so were they really that expensive on a cost per year basis?
My father in law is an avid golfer as well. Doesn’t sound like he’s quite as good as your dad, though. And yes, he’s dropped some $$$ on clubs. I had footage that talked about that but it didn’t make it into the final edit.
This is THE BEST video on the current state of model railroading. There has NEVER BEEN a better time to be in this hobby. The bang for the buck is unreal.
I can take a 50-year old Athearn BB rail car that I bought for $6, add $15 in couplers, wheelsets and a few detail parts, weather it, and have something that from 2 feet away rivals ANY R-T-R high-end rolling stock out there. And operates just as well.
I can take a $30 Proto-2000 DC locomotive, add a decoder and LED lighting for $40 and have a GREAT running locomotive (once I have changed out the axle gears that have split)
Thanks for the kind words!
As one of the younger “kids” (26) in the hobby, I don’t think it’s dying, it’s more or less evolving, for better or worse, that’s one decision, to me I think it’s getting better, the amount of verity between locomotive, freight and passenger cars, and buildings and signals, and with the help of 3D printing, things that the older guys had to spend days to weeks, if not, months or years to build, has become incredibly easy. For those who say it’s getting expensive, I would have to disagree, even for someone like me where money can be pretty tight, I can still afford one or two engines a year or 3-8 freight cars on average.
I will say that even though I’ve been in this hobby for my whole life (on and off), yes there will be a few of those guys that don’t want to help the newer generation, but they are very few and far between, most of the folks I’ve meet, weather that be here on UA-cam or Facebook, have been excellent and very helpful and very inspirational, for interest, there are several buildings that will go on my layout that were never made in HO, so one guy told me to scratch build them, and I have and many others have wanted me to share how I built it, however I just lost my motivation right when I was going to.
The last time I went to a train show, a lot of us here on UA-cam was saying the same thing, “we think the hobby is dying, there’s not many young people in the hobby anymore”. I went to the hobby show later that year and I think there was more kids there then actual adults.
This is one of those subjects that can get me kinda upset cause to me it just sounds like some, not all, of the older modelers just don’t want to help the younger modelers or future generations or they just think that the younger ones won’t have interest in it and they think they are wasting their time, it’s gonna happen, it’s like a job, could you do this everyday even if you was getting paid, I highly doubt it. It’s a part of life, you will get burned out and want to take a break.
I just realized that this is the most I’ve written. 😂 Thanks for sharing!
Most modelers I know, regardless of age, are more than willing to help out people who are younger or not as skilled. (Not me, of course, I not helping nobody! 😉) but I have run across those people who are arrogant, condescending and/or insulting who can’t fathom that it’s that attitude that drives the younger or more inexperienced crowd away. No one started in this hobby as an expert. But some people forget that.
Any hobby can get expensive. You just have to decide how far you want to go. Back in the 1960's I remember a model train at a friends house. It was just a HO loop with a side rail, one engine, 4 or five cars, a caboose. In the basement we set it up on a pool table, instant green grass was everywhere. We found a piece of a broken mirror and we had a lake. We took newspaper and rubbed the print with our fingers to make it all gray. Then we cut it out to use it for roads. The cars were matchbox. Not the same scale but were weren't picky. We cut up colored construction paper to make shrubbery. 35mm film containers, which were metal in those days, became industrial structures. It was all fun. None of us became serious models but we sure had fun with our low budget hobby.
Things being expensive are a sign of the times. I was just a little league tournament where they were charging admission to the same parents that already pay a boatload of money so their children can play on the first place.
That being said, what makes a hobby thrive is an active community. People upgrading to the latest models often create a secondary market as they unload older gear to make room for the newest acquisitions. The train hobby is no different. I have found deals on both used and new old stock items that help keep the cost of this hobby down. Again, it’s the interactions of the train hobby community that keep it going even if it is constantly evolving.
Excellent and well measured rant! Never has there been more high quality MRR products to get. At least now, for $110 one can get a starter set, take it home and run quality trains in minutes. I first did that in the early 70's. It didn't cost $110, more like $15, but I just kept saving up my 25 cents a week allowance until I could get what I wanted. That same method can be followed today too! And the quality of the models is almost immeasurably better. Shop wisely! The main drawback is that so many MRR products are 'one and done', as in: When something is released you have to get it now or it's almost impossible to get it! The best thing about MRRing is that you can do it an almost unlimited number of ways. It can be easy or challenging to the degree you want it to be. It brings happiness as any hobby (probably) should! To say that MRRing is too anything now is a crock! Everything has changed, but 97.39% of it has improved! In fact one can do way more than even a few years ago! What will ruin model railroading? A bad attitude. That's about it!
Fully agree about the bad attitude! (And the rest, too)
I agree completely. My grandfather had a massive model railroad, and got me started very young. Just about every time I visited when I was a kid, I always "dragged" (hah!) him down into the basement to run his trains. I had a few layouts of my own, but eventually, as it always does, life got in the way, and I gave most of my trains to my grandfather, so at least someone would be running them (and sometimes, that someone was me when I visited him). Sadly, he passed away earlier this year, but that gave me the kick to build my own layout, which is in progress right now, so that I can run some of his trains again.
It seems like every hobby is ALWAYS dying, according to the people who don't like the direction it's going in because it doesn't dovetail neatly with their interests. According to that random guy you quoted, model railroading has been dying for 30 years. Couldn't prove it by the crowd I saw at the Amherst Train Show last weekend. I even ran into one of my son's preschool classmates there (with his parents, of course). That's two kids right there that are already "bitten by the bug" of model railroading. It's not just for old graybeards. Does my son want to build a basement empire that's a prototypical model of railroad operations as they stood in Omaha, Nebraska on June 12, 1956? Nope. He absolutely loved the little N-scale module with all the dinosaurs, and the train with dinosaurs on it, though. And guess who wants a train set for his birthday?
Are model trains expensive? Yes, absolutely. Is the enjoyment per dollar quotient pretty high? Also, absolutely. I paid $40 for a boxcar. I will *never* need to buy a replacement for it, even if it spends 50 years being shuttled from one end of my switching layout to the other 1000 times a day. Not to say that I won't buy 50 other boxcars that are almost identical, but that's more of a liking to buy stuff problem than a needing to buy stuff problem.
My HO scale layout just turned 54. My dad and I started it during Christmas time 1968. I’ve raised four sons with it, and now two grandchildren. It went from the cheapest of the cheap, boxes of used locomotives from my dads friends at work (the B&O). We actually had the old Athearn rubber band drive locos. Anyway, everyone can enjoy the hobby even on a budget, and it actually became stronger during the pandemic. Look at how many ladies are getting into the hobby! People need to quit whining and start running trains!
Couldn’t agree more!
In EVERY hobby there is ALWAYS that "this hobby is dying" guy. Easy to ignore them.
I can usually ignore the "hobby is dying" guy. It was the "it's dying because it ain't like it used to, and we've known this for 30 years" 1-2-3 combo that irked me.
Great video. The Hobby is only dying in the minds of the negative people trying to make it go away. Are they jealous of not being able to buy what they want because they do not want to pay what it is worth?
Perhaps….
We all enjoy the hobby differently. My collection is an accumulation of the past 45 years. I have Tyco, Athearn, AHM, Lifelike and other low end trains that I enjoy every day. And I’m still DC because it would cost a fortune to change everything to DCC. I did upgrade to Kadee Couplers though. I love the old school trains, without sound. The growl of the Athearn motor or the frequent squeal of the Tyco engine gears is part of my childhood and I won’t trade those memories for anything. Keep up the great videos and RANT ALL YOU WANT. It’s your channel.
Thank you. But I don’t want it to be just my channel. It’s nothing without all of you who invest your time (and in your case, money) to watch what I put out. I never take that for granted. So I really do want to make sure what I create is worthwhile and not just me spouting off about whatever. 🙂
@@ThePixelDepotLLC it needed to be said. And I’m glad you addressed it. Now you can get back to your regularly scheduled entertaining videos. Lol
Well said. Another modeler recently did a whole price comparison of the model prices in the past verse today. The findings were similar to yours. You do get more for your money at the high end and the low end keeps up with inflation. I will say it again though, things seem more expensive now because we spend our money on more things. We didn’t have smartphones, wireless fees, Wi-Fi, streaming, etc. Just think of how much you spend on technology alone today verse back in the days of one cable bill and one phone bill. Our budget is spread thinner. We travel more too. We just have less money left to spend on hobbies. That doesn’t mean you can’t do a lot with little though as this channel has emphasized time and time again.
Great video and insight.
Thanks, John. It's a good point. Lot of money spent on tech these days.
I am still into it well into my 50s even though it's been years since I had a small 4x8 layout. My biggest issue is space as I would like to at least double what I had before. Glad to see model clubs still thriving and admitting younger members including teens. One thing I miss are the hobby stores. Always enjoyed shopping for the hobby in person instead of from a screen.
I also miss shopping in person. That is one major drawback to the current environment.
I think we’re in the peak! We’ve got so many resources and channels on UA-cam and multiple sites offering used trains! It’s a great time to jump in
UA-cam? What’s that? 😉
Great video by the way. You can get many locos on a budget including buildings and layout materials for little to nothing.
The only thing holding me back from doing model railroading is space, I'm willing to spend years slowly scraping up the money to buy and build, but I just don't have a place to put it.
You don't need a ton of space. Check out my series on building The Grunge (15 inches by 90 inches) that sits on top of 2 bookcases (it's the one behind me in this video).
I agree with you. Model railroading is not on its last leg. It is far better then it ever was, and can only get better.😂❤😂
Well, it *could* get worse. There’s always that possibility. But for right now, things seem healthy.
I started in N scale in the 60s with a Postage Stamp set and I have no idea how much it was, but my parents bought it for me. Here I am , 55 years later, still modeling with a basement full of my layout. Around 1970 or so, I purchased four Atlas heavyweight passenger cars for $3 each. $12 was a lot then. Last month, I purchased three Scale Trains carbon black hoppers for $32 each and thought nothing about a $96 purchase, when a few minutes later, I bought $3.99/gallon gasoline. Everything is relative. Yes the hobby is expensive. My wife's hobby of weaving and spinning is expensive. But all hobbies can be entered at a low cost and will be. But as you progress in the hobby, options for better equipment become available and you can take advantage of them. I have some excess rolling stock that I plan on offering for a low price and hope that some budding model railroader will get them and start his/her journey into what really is a fun hobby. Good video.
I think the rub is that the $3.99/gallon gas will mean fewer people have the $32 to drop on a car. So it comes down to budgeting and knowing what you really want and can afford.
I have been whittling down my excess collection as well, and will have a table at a local NMRA train show in December.
A warm Hello! from Central Europe. I was watching a few of your videos and this one just popped into my feed. I am a model railroader too and recently begun with this hobby so after seeing your video I feel the need to put my two cents here. Now, please take into account that what I'm about to say is first and foremost from the perspective of model railroaders here in Europe and many share my opinion on this matter. The situation over in the US might be different.
To start, in Europe (excluding the UK) we have just 2 or 3 manufacturers who kind of have a monopoly on everything, these would be Maerklin (Germany) and another would be Roco (Austria). The 3rd would be Fleischmann who I think was bought up by Roco. There are a few other smaller companies but these three hold the most market share. Nowadays most of their lineup in terms of locomotives is digital and the prices are sky high, easily going 500 EUR or higher, when the average monthly income over here is around 1500 EUR before taxes. They do not seem to offer cheaper analog versions at all anymore so there is no choice. Yes, their starter packs are somewhat affordable but that is also something parents would buy only once, a 12-14 year old will most likely not have that money. Many of the older model railroaders I spoke to said that they were able to buy rolling stock when they were kids, just from their pocket money plus a small extra here ant there so even if you adjust for inflation the conclusion remains that it is to expensive for any young people and so they will not be attracted to this hobby. So at least over here in Europe the prices are killing it. I only started recently because I changed jobs and my current one brings me an income way above average. Even so, everything I managed to buy is second hand, from ebay, which brings me to the next topic, that of quality. Most rolling stock I have is old, some of it even saw the fall of the iron curtain ===))), but despite its age runs pretty well and all of it is analog. Many are complaining of the new products from either Maerklin or Roco stating they have issues with everything on them, starting with motors and ending with bad build quality overall, and German consumers are especially angry at this. I've even witnessed several times, people bringing in their new engines to the railroad model shop in my neighbourhood, returning their stuff they bought just a couple of months ago. Even the salesman there confirmed there are quality issues which weren't there in the past. So all in all it looks pretty dire I'm afraid.
Thank you for that detailed insight. It does sound like things in Europe are less flexible than here in the US.
Awesome video, just found your channel, new sub now! I'm a 45 year HO MRR, yes the hobby is more expensive now then it was years ago, but the quality of the newer locos/rolling stock is much better making the hobby better (like less derailments). I try to save $$ by going to every train show I can, always find good deals and you can simply update older cars with steel wheels/extra weight/ couplers. I run many older units successfully. Thanks MRR is the greatest hobby and for me my whole family gets involved.!
Welcome to the channel, Chris! It's great that modeling is a family activity for you. That's not always the case (although I don't understand why, what weirdos WOULDN'T love this hobby? 😉 )
I am a second generation model railroaded, I am a kitbasher and scratch builder. I have most of my dad's brass locomotives and box of wood kits too. I have a layout too. But I am a deaf disabled veteran and the hobby doesn't consider ADA. I can't hear the equipment when it goes past ten feet away from me. That is why I do DC without sound.
I am not being at all flippant when I ask: how could the hobby be more ADA? Is there any way they could include something that would allow you to get some sort of physical response?
Hey Joe, no problem with your ideas. But I’ve been in the hobby since I was 10 years old, and I for one, was so happy when I discovered Athearn. Finally a products that were not only affordable, but ran really well. And for me, realistic operations eg. Engines that will crawl and not jump-start like my old Tyco engines used to do, is worth gold. Also, in my modest opinion, you can get a super-detailed product but that you can’t even pick up for fear something will fall off, is taking it too far. Also, DCC is great for a vast majority of reasons, but for me, is just an added “feature” that brings another level of maintenance to the trains, on top of having to clean track and wheels, so…again, my modest opinion. I like the KISS system eg keep it simple stupid. Is the hobby dying?…no, I don’t think so. But it is getting harder and harder for a young family with two or three kids to educate them, feed them, and clothe them. Can you really tell me that these families are going to shell out any of the kind of money needed to get a starter set, like my folks did back in 1970? I don’t see that happening. Anyway, thanks for sharing your views w everyone. Take care!
Yes, things can be expensive in this hobby, but so was tractor pulling and building motorcycles, even hunting and fishing. I thing it is all about what you like to do. Good piece, Joe. Thanks for sharing, David.
Yeah, anything with an engine is likely to get expensive quick!