Це відео не доступне.
Перепрошуємо.
Model Railroad Operations w/ DISPATCHER PANEL Operations at Holcim Cement on the UPRR Evanston Sub
Вставка
- Опубліковано 14 вер 2023
- This video features Part one of a two-part series on Holcim Cement Ops at Devils slide featuring train LUJ62 out of Ogden and heading to Evanston Yard.
To purchase the HO Scale Athearn Bathtub coal cars or N scale stuff go to
uprr-geneva-sub.square.site/ FREE SHIPPING Available!!!!
Join this channel to get access to perks:
/ @evanstonsub
Support this channel on Patreon www.patreon.com/user?u=75100598
Follow along with the official track plan blogger.googleusercontent.com...
Im a conductor at Union Pacific. its called track and time. not time and track. on CTC like what your layout is, the dispatcher doesn't ever give a train "track and time". thats really only for track inspectors and maintenance of way. Occasionally a train will have to get joint track and time with a MOW crew but thats it and its also very rare. dispatchers are required for every control point move. the crew would have to communicate with the dispatcher for any move within a control point. the only time a crew is allowed to touch a control point switch manually is if the dispatcher is unable to get the switch the lock up. then the crew is allowed to touch the control point switch. but again that's for a malfunction.
Thanks for the info. It really helps. Now I just have to get all the operators on board.
non signaled manual throw switches off the mainline or siding can be thrown by hand and no authority is needed if the train is already occupying a block on the mainline or siding. for example, you pull up to a manual throw industry switch off the mainline to do a set out and pick up. however, if a train is in an industry, yard, etc, where there is no signal onto the mainline with a dispatcher controlled switch, the train must receive verbal authority from the dispatcher to enter the mainline or controlled siding. so It would sound like this from the dispatcher, "The UP 8055 between CP 261 and CP 264 has authority to enter thenmainline (or controlled siding) and proceed east/west/north/south, over" then the crew would respond with the same verbiage back to the dispatcher acknowledging their verbal authority.@@EvanstonSub
Howdy Daryl! Operations is just fascinating. Big difference between 'playing' with your trains and 'operating' them. I'm going to enjoy the operating as much as the building and landscaping. Thanks for sharing 🤠
Well said!
Great video, enjoyed the switching moves and breaking the videos into half hour segments. Love following your railroad.
Glad you like them!
Darryl, I could watch your videos all day every day , bloody love this one especially, shunting cars in and out and your controllers panel, can’t wait for the next part, hi from down under👍🇦🇺
Glad you enjoyed it
To answer your operational questions. First, Track and Time may be granted to train on a main or multiple mains for a specific time or until released. That said, Track and Time can only be issued between control points, so on your layout the DS would grant T&T to the UP 1234 East with Track and Time limits between Morgan and Emory. (No other train or MOW may enter unless they are all granted joint T&T, all movements made at restricted speed.) They would be free to move past the Absolute signals at Devils slide after stopping (if a stop indication is present) without DS granting authority. The switches for the runaround and plant would all be electric lock hand through switches. The trainman would throw the switch after opening an adjacent box and throw a handle that pulls a pin to allow for the switch rod to move. For loading cars out in the plant, the plant will use a track mobile to do that, they will bill out the loads that are ready for release and they might even go as far as switching those out and leaving first out for quick pick up, the local crew is not going to run cars through the tower. At places where a crew does load out a agg train or coal train, they are clear of the main and usually never leave the plant. The cars have to be weighed too. As for working the customer in general, they would be switched by westbound local, not eastbound. Way to much time on a busy main to work facing point. The local would cut off their train to hold the pick up and power clear east of the CP Devil Slide, that way the DS can run trains around you while you lace up and air up the train. Part of my current job on the railroad is to look at proposed new track alignments and ensure that the crews can actually work with the signal placement and switch layout, especially when you have a CP and customer in the same location. Something we try to avoid on new construction. We have a couple places like that and they are terrible. ---- 25 years of experience on freight, commuter, and excursion -- operations and safety / compliance.
I love the logical puzzles which railway operations present.
Thanks so much for the info. Very helpful. When I was at Holcim Cement, I did not see a track mobile, although I'm not really sure what that is. I've seen some small industries that use electric motors on the ground with cables to move cars through the loader.
@@EvanstonSub A small grain elevator in town used that method (electric motor and cable) for loading and moving cars when I was a kid. Until the motor fried... then they used an ag tractor until it was fixed. Kinda funny seeing a John Deere pulling rail cars lol.
your quite welcome.@@EvanstonSub
@@Cowboy_Steve UP charges $200.00 per car for an intra-plant switch so yea, some customers will use ANYTHING to move those cars around to avoid paying that switch fee
have Loved all yoru building videos!
Awesome, thank you!
Wow! So much to see... and more to construct! You are, in effect, running a real railroad. Better not let RR execs see this. They'll replace all the train crews like they did us control operators!
As to road switching ops, at CSX the subdivision timetable and rules dictated some methods. Usually, though, if there was a lot of switching between two CPs, we'd get time & track or a track warrant to operate as needed between those end points. If necessary, the points would change upon radio request to the dispatcher. Sometimes, of course, we'd have to wait for, say, a passing Amtrak before setting up the next setoff/pickup within new limits.
We also did things as you're doing them, using signals* and some radio dialog with the dispatcher. When I was a control operator, I'd set this up within my area, but now CSX uses dispatchers for all that. Hope this helps.
(CSX uses speed signals, such as "approach medium, limited clear, etc." As I understand, UP uses direction signals, such as "diverging approach," as does BNSF, where i first learned railroading. What you're calling a "ground signal" we called a "dwarf." But... maybe now that's considered politically incorrect.
Thanks for an interesting and impressive session!
PS What kind of load does that semi have at about 26:00? Looks interesting.
Thanks for the info. Really appreciate it. The truck carries Cement.
You're layout looks totally wholesome...Holcim.. hey is that pronounced the same
Haha
i worked for chicago and northwestern/union pacific as a switchman... i worked in TWC/ABS territory... also a large portion of our area was YARD LIMITS, which keeps folks out of the dispatchers hair... but when we needed to work in TWC territory that was OUTSIDE of yard limits, we would get a track warrant from the dispatcher with a box 4 (work between blank and blank on the main track)... the box 4 allowed us to move forwards and back within the specified limits... worked out pretty good
My last job I worked was TWC. But I spent about 23 years in CTC and it’s a very different animal. CTC and TWC have their strengths and weaknesses. But I loved TWC more because, for the most part, when the dispatcher issued the TW, the railroad was yours. And the limits were generally longer. And when work was needed, you did not have that constant battle with the dispatcher.
CTC was like a 2 year old child. Needy.
@@JoKe4244
yea CTC is good for just straight run through, no stopping, no work en-route... but if you have switching like what daryl is showing here, that's a pain... yard limits within CTC territory, you still have to call the control operator... again what a pain... btw i never did understand why that is... just seems silly that you have independence in yard limits/ABS territory but in yard limits/ctc territory you don't ...giving the folks who are right there on the ground more autonomy is always best... you're right ctc is very needy
Often times, what the professional engineers hate, modelers generally enjoy.
Hello Daryl! I've been conductor for the UP in Texas for 12 years now. There are already a few coments from railroaders so I think I'll be just echoing what has already been said, but here goes. The dispatcher can issue Track and Time, however, if the train is just making switching moves within the control point and the block the train is occupying then the more likely scenario is that the dispatcher would just give verbal permission to hand operate the switches necessary to complete the work. Then give verbal authority to pass the signal with the understanding that switching moves will be made. Then the crew need only talk with the dispatcher after the work is done and the switches are restored to "power". The dispatcher would aslo have to block off any train from entering Main 1 from Emory to protect the movements made as well. I do have questions as far as how this plant operates. Usually the loads are together and ready to go. It is highly unlikely for a road crew to be waiting for cars to be loaded, and even switch them out, tho I have seen it happen. It also seems logical to work it going the opposite direction. The Union Pacific these days really doesn't like when trains occupying the mainline are stopped for hours doing switch moves. This plant seems likely to be worked by a local, tho these days anything is possible.
Awesome layout, absolutely love seen the updates. Keep them coming!
Phil
Thanks so much for the info. Very interesting and helpful.
wuaooo wonderfull layout , congratulations
Thank you so much!
Thanks . . . .
You're welcome!
❤
Thx
Amazing as always.
Thank you! Cheers!
Awesome 😊
Thank you! Cheers!
In my opinion, with the way you set this up, Track & Time would be the easiest way for a crew to accomplish this move. Track & Time authority to that train between Morgan (switch no) & Emory (switch no) on Main 1 would give that crew free reign to do their switching without having to talk to the DS on every single pass. If the railroad is busy, then issue track & time to do the runaround move & then release it so the DS is stuck with a single track railroad from Devil's Slide to Morgan. Then do it again when there's time for the 2nd runaround. Whatever allows the work to happen with the least amount of talking to the DS is how a crew will do it.
I agree that would be the easiest way. However, if you check out comments from professional UP engineers, its not the most prototypical way.
Your flyer over is very similar to the flyover at Cienega Creek on the UP Sunset Route where the mains crossover each other.
Very cool. My flyover is modeled after the prototype on the Evanston Sub. Didn't realize there was one on the sunset as well.
Great video and awesome switching n' running trains. I agree with most of what everyone is saying on how it would be best for your layout. A question though, would it be better to extend that Siding at Holcim so you aren't fouling the Main? 2nd Question, when a Signal is given to enter into that Siding, wouldn't it be blinking Red over Yellow for Diverging but Stop at the next Signal? (Don't know for UP if that would be Proto or not, but maybe it might add a little difference to just a simple blinking Red?)
there are two signal aspects for going through the diverging route... one is red over any favorable signal will have diverging in the name... so red over green or red over yellow... second is a flashing red signal which means restricting, proceed at restricted speed, not exceeding prescribed speed through turnout... by the crew going at restricted speed, they already know to be prepared to stop at a POSSIBLE red signal... but @ 9:36, he pulled out and got the line up for the MAINLINE with another flashing red signal... that was the wrong signal for that line up... a line up for the mainline should be a HIGH green signal (if the block ahead is clear)... because again, a flashing red signal means the switch is lined for the diverging route.
OK. Thanks for the info. Very helpful.
On the csx you have to get permission an every time you throw a switch you have to tell the dispacture if it on the main line an secondary lines so the dispacher knows what is open. Or closed
Thanks for the info. Very helpful!
a pain in the but for a dispatcher... having yard limits in that area would eliminate all that extra headache for the dispatcher
Your living the dream
So true
An if your working the back end of the train to speed up movement a crew van is used to take the conductive to the rear an later back to the front
Not sure I could replicate that on the layout.
@@EvanstonSub: I'd just imagine the van part and time each operation accordingly.
Cool
So true 😁
Hi Daryl, your videos are Awesome! Very Helpful! Question: What signal manufacture are you using? And how are you controlling them?
Signals are made by Details West and Atlas. They are driven by Digitrax Se8c
HO UP is my game!❤
Mine too
Hi Daryl, I've been going through many of your videos (and other sources), looking for information on hooking up atlas signals. You once said that you used Digitrax BDL168 occupancy boards, but I haven't yet found out how to get them to talk to the signals. Have you ever done a video on that?
I haven't. I use the Digitrax SE8c signal driver to connect up the signals. Ther BDL168 is used for block occupancy. Both are connected to a computer with RR&Co Traincontroller software that controls the color of each signal determined by the track occupancy of the trains on the mainline. JMRI has a free software package that does the same thing called panelpro.
@@EvanstonSub Thank-you. Very interesting. Is the SE8c used instead of the Atlas control board, or as an add-on to it? Also, what other hardware is necessary to connect the computer to the Digitrax system? I notice there is a USB port on the command station. Do I just plug that in directly using the supplied cable, or is something else required?
Thank-you again.
You can use the usb port on the command station, but only the newer command stations have them. If you have an older command station you can use the MS100, PR3 or PR4 by digitrax or a Locobuffer from RRCir-Kits. Just plug into your computers usb port and you are ready to go. The MS100 is very old and plugs into the computer's serial port which most computers no longer have.
Highly recommend JMRI DecoderPro open-source software. Very powerful with lots of useful tools including Panel Pro for building a dispatcher's panel. I use RR&Co Traincontroller that I got cheap back in 2003. RR&Co is very expensive now at ~ $800.
@@EvanstonSub Excellent. Thank-you for all the information.
Daryl - is there a way to reach out to your privately outside these comments for some questions ?
Try my Twitter account uprrevanstonsub
Do you plan to experiment with “Expediters”?
Whats an Expediter"
@@EvanstonSub The UP wants to experiment with one-person crews - just the engineer on the train. Conductors will be assigned a territory, and drive a truck. If needed for some situation, they will drive to the location.
Railroad says it will improve safety & efficiency.
Oh yes, I've heard about that. We mostly use one-man crews during operation sessions. Does that count?
@@EvanstonSub Yes - you’re ahead of the game!
Train is 5119 and on your controller you use the last 2 digits 19 but the road number on the loco is 589 how do you keep track .... ( no pun )
Check again. Number on the Loco is 5119
@@EvanstonSubyes it is the 2 x 1 are close and I tought it was an 8 , watching it on my phone ...😊
@@EvanstonSub but running so many locos will you soon have to switch to 4 digits programmation ?
?
???
When I worked on the Evanston Sun, back then it was the Salt Lake Sub, everything from Ogden to Granger was 9-14 Territory (Directional ABS). With 9-14 Territory the dispatcher was essentially blind and the train crew lined all the switches because all the switches were all hand thrown. No machines. The crew would only be required to tell the dispatcher the work to be done and also when the work was completed.
In your scenario, the track is CTC (Centralized Traffic Control). In my experience with CTC, the dispatcher could issue Track and Time (but not often) or give AUTHORITY to pass each red signal each time and give PERMISSION to operate dual control switches by hand (most often). @Kimrock1 is correct. So is @KenRosser8160
Why AUTHORITY to pass signals and not PERMISSION? In order for any train or person or equipment to be on the main track, they have to possess a form of Main Track Authority. Getting a signal to depart Ogden is a form of AUTHORITY. If that signal displayed a STOP indication, then the dispatcher had to give the train VERBAL AUTHORITY to occupy the main track beyond the STOP signal.
yup. sidings are free in TWC. just have to let the dispatcher know when you're lined locked and in the clear at a siding or anywhere off the mainline
The center sidings would be cool, but they would take up too much room and not leave much length between sidings. So, I used modelers license and went all CTC. Really appreciate the prototype information. It's a tremendous help.
@@EvanstonSubYour layout has significant flexibility over the prototype. It could also be a architectural model for UPRR to upgrade the prototype railroad. Example at Holcim, the prototype would require following trains to just sit and wait behind the train working the plant. Whereas your layout with CTC in both directions on both tracks, the dispatcher can move trains around the train working the plant.
One license to consider at Holcim is the addition of a switch at the far end of the stub tracks and creating a runaround. Basically extend the track going through the load out and then connect the storage track to it with a switch to complete a runaround. This will significantly improve your efficiency while serving the plants. Holcim had a front end loader or track mobile that they moved the cars around within the plant. If we did all the work you are showing, there would be tens of thousands of dollars in interplant switching charges every time the plant got switched. So it is beneficial for the plant to have a efficient operation to set out and pickup cars. Just a few thoughts. But if your scenario is to challenge operators with their critical thinking, you have created an expert level scenario.