I think this issue of "concrete scientific facts Vs feelings" can be applied to many debates that take place in society beyond ones about gender. From my point of view , modern society has placed concrete scientific facts over feelings and emotions... I think that's very harmful as I think it's an attempt to distance ourselves from our subjectity that is a huge part of our humanity. As you pointed out feelings are just as real for our human existence as concrete scientific facts.
I agree. Threre are things you intuitively just know like when we were infants we knew intuitively to crawl, and later how to walk. We intuitively have the feeling to talk so we babble before we learn to speak a language. These things are feelings but they are very real. Why would gender be any different? The human brain is nuanced and complex not monochromatic like Ben believes.
This is why so many transgender people end up in philosophy because it throws you into the depths of "What is reality? and where do all our beliefs and societal ideas come from?". The Matrix was made by two trans women for goodness sakes. Trans people have contributed a lot to some amazing discussion. Well...some of them lol.
I’ve been in a little bit of a debate with my teenager about this (he sent me this video). The challenging part for me isn’t about if feelings are facts. That part I get (though I don’t agree that our interpretations of our feelings are always facts) What I don’t get is the feeling without any context. He has been trying to tell me that gender is something outside of sex and social norms, but at that point it becomes entirely meaningless and without context in my mind. When you talk about “maleness” you use that word for a reason. It has significance in our language only as it relates to sex and societal norms. So something about that feeling of maleness must relate in some way to one of those things or you would never have used that word in the first place. Either in your feelings you don’t connect with the sex of your body, or in your feelings you connect with societal ideas of being male. Or somehow chemically in our brains there is something that makes the sexes different and your brain chemistry is male. I just cannot grasp how gender can exist outside of those two things completely.
thank you for this video - it's given me a lot to consider as I learn more about trans things. I guess at the moment where I'm struggling as that I don't see or understand gender as a feeling, I've always understood gender to be the imposed hierarchy through which female people are oppressed. I guess at the end of the day it doesn't matter how much I do or don't understand, as long as I offer support / allyship but it would be good to I think.
Ev that’s why i say it’s so hard to describe what gender actually is/feels like, the origins of gender /roles/ are certainly more nefarious and rooted in sexism, but i think gender identity itself is something separate from this, while still being affected by these roles. and i would be inclined to believe gender identity is not something that can simply be eradicated, no matter what changes are made to society. hard stuff! i’m not pretending to know the answers 🤷♂️
I think this issue of "concrete scientific facts Vs feelings" can be applied to many debates that take place in society beyond ones about gender. From my point of view , modern society has placed concrete scientific facts over feelings and emotions... I think that's very harmful as I think it's an attempt to distance ourselves from our subjectity that is a huge part of our humanity. As you pointed out feelings are just as real for our human existence as concrete scientific facts.
I agree. Threre are things you intuitively just know like when we were infants we knew intuitively to crawl, and later how to walk. We intuitively have the feeling to talk so we babble before we learn to speak a language. These things are feelings but they are very real. Why would gender be any different? The human brain is nuanced and complex not monochromatic like Ben believes.
This is why so many transgender people end up in philosophy because it throws you into the depths of "What is reality? and where do all our beliefs and societal ideas come from?". The Matrix was made by two trans women for goodness sakes. Trans people have contributed a lot to some amazing discussion. Well...some of them lol.
I’ve been in a little bit of a debate with my teenager about this (he sent me this video). The challenging part for me isn’t about if feelings are facts. That part I get (though I don’t agree that our interpretations of our feelings are always facts) What I don’t get is the feeling without any context. He has been trying to tell me that gender is something outside of sex and social norms, but at that point it becomes entirely meaningless and without context in my mind. When you talk about “maleness” you use that word for a reason. It has significance in our language only as it relates to sex and societal norms. So something about that feeling of maleness must relate in some way to one of those things or you would never have used that word in the first place. Either in your feelings you don’t connect with the sex of your body, or in your feelings you connect with societal ideas of being male. Or somehow chemically in our brains there is something that makes the sexes different and your brain chemistry is male. I just cannot grasp how gender can exist outside of those two things completely.
thank you for this video - it's given me a lot to consider as I learn more about trans things. I guess at the moment where I'm struggling as that I don't see or understand gender as a feeling, I've always understood gender to be the imposed hierarchy through which female people are oppressed.
I guess at the end of the day it doesn't matter how much I do or don't understand, as long as I offer support / allyship but it would be good to I think.
Ev that’s why i say it’s so hard to describe what gender actually is/feels like, the origins of gender /roles/ are certainly more nefarious and rooted in sexism, but i think gender identity itself is something separate from this, while still being affected by these roles. and i would be inclined to believe gender identity is not something that can simply be eradicated, no matter what changes are made to society. hard stuff! i’m not pretending to know the answers 🤷♂️