Besides the procreation issue, there is one other glaring plot hole here: how has Little Lamplight never been attacked by the Super Mutants that a) literally live next door and b) have no other logical means of getting to the surface world except THROUGH Little Lamplight? Considering that the main questline establishes Vault 87 as the main source of Super Mutants in the Capital Wasteland, how is Little Lamplight not a Super Mutant stronghold in 2277?
That's not a "plot hole". There is no part of the plot of _Fallout 3_ concerned with that interaction or lack thereof. You're offering a critique of the setting, which is all well and good, but please learn the difference between that and a "plot hole".
@MegaZeta I see...so having to go to Vault 87 to acquire a G.E.C.K. is not, in fact, part of the main sequence of events of Fallout 3 (aka "the plot")? And Vault 87 being established as a primary source of Super Mutants in the Capital Wasteland is not, in fact, part of the main sequence of events in Fallout 3 (aka "the plot")? And Little Lamplight being established as the only way in and out of Vault 87 is not, in fact, part of the main sequence of events of Fallout 3 (aka "the plot")? And a lack of a logical explanation for how Little Lamplight is populated with children for over 200 years (without any evidence of the children having ever interacted with Super Mutants) when the Capital Wasteland is full of Super Mutants (the majority of which are clearly established as having come out of Vault 87 - which as we have established can only be accessed through Little Lamplight) does not, in fact, constitute a logical gap in the sequence of events in Fallout 3 (aka "a plot hole")? If you're going to parse words (and in the process call me or anyone else out for no apparent reason other than to make the person you are calling out look like a fool), maybe make it a point to know what you're talking about, eh?
@@MegaZeta If you want to get pedantic about it, it would be closer to a "lore hole" in that case, but making sure things make sense setting-wise is pretty important either way.
It is worth mentioning that if other people know about Little Lamplight they may also get kids left on their doorstep from all over the Capital Wasteland. If a family of settlers have a kid and realize they can't feed them then it makes sense they would take them to a settlement exclusively for kids that seemed to be doing well. Idk how widespread knowledge of Little Lamplight is since it's been years since I played Fallout 3 but surely they haven't gome completely unnoticed. Kids from other settlements would also probably not no anything about Big Town as they're is no real reason to travel there since they are too poor to really trade so people from outside Big Town might not know it's where Lamplighters end up just thinking it's another poor town struggling to survive in the wasteland.
There’s two problems with this of course Little lamplight cannot logically do well enough as a settlement because 1. They eat Cave mold Which is not a sustainable food source mainly because they need Human Meat to mass produce the cave mold but the issue with this is that the children have ZERO Clue that the mold feeds on Human Meat They do mention that the mold likes a specific kind of meat but it’s never implied that they know what kind of meat it is And 2. The children of Little Lamplight live Right next door to the Source of the Super mutants in the capital wasteland And it’s not like Lamplight is heavily fortified either, All that’s keeping the super mutants from the children is a Wall made out of wooden planks The mutants can easily tear it down and take/kill all the children at any time
@@mythicgamer5553 valid points but firstly if you're a wastelander with no food yourself I doubt it would matter of Little Lamplight didn't have the best food supply. Cave fungus might have flaws but it's gotten them this far and a random person trying to get rid of kid they can't take care of in a humane way instead of letting them die might not even know Little Lamplight is surviving exclusively off fungus. For all they might know they have plenty of food down there. Second while I definitely understand traveling to Little Lamplight is dangerous they have survived down there since the war. Rather by dumb luck or actually having some sort of plan they're still alive. Also a random wastelanders wouldn't know about the security of Lamplight just like the food situation. Like I said it's been years since I've played Fallout 3 but isn't a big point that no one knows where the super mutants are coming from? I remember that being a big deal with the Brotherhood trying to find the super mutant's kinda base to stop the flow of them. I'm not saying Lamplight is a perfect settlement far from it. Im just pointing out that the population could be sustainable by adoptees brought to them not just by Big Town or kids they find orphaned while out scavenging but kids brought to them by parents from across the wasteland. I still think it's a combination as mentioned in the video but way more kids could be coming to Lamplight than implied. You're making good points to why Lamplight would suck to actually live in but not why it wouldn't be reasonable for wasteland parents who can't support a child to leave their kid at Lamplight's door in hopes that this legend of a settlement of kids is true and they can give your child a better life than you can. Also it's not like Lamplight is unique in having a unstable food supply or in danger of super mutants. Even if you knew what was wrong with Lamplight it still might be better than whatever ruined hovel your stuck in. At least Lamplight has stood the test of time, however unrealistic that might be.
@@Pegasus54321 I would Argue it is Definitely Not Better to live than Literally anywhere else It doesn’t matter if no one knows where the super mutants come from The problem is that The Children are Living right Next to the Source They are In More Danger of getting attacked by Super mutants than every other settlement It’s just as bad as Living in Megaton where there’s a Literal Atomic Bomb outside your house Or the Republic of Dave where everyone is living straight across from a Deathclaw Habitat I don’t know why Bethesda thought it was a good decision but Logically, especially in the world of fallout Living Next to something that can Kill you and everyone around you is NEVER a Good idea if you want to keep living in the post apocalypse
@@Pegasus54321 I’m not saying something like Lamplight can’t exist But the Children should have really known to stay away from the super mutants as soon as they started appearing in the cave
Little Lamplight and the rise of New Vegas are the two timeline/lore things that never click in my head. I think because of this I really love both of them, that and it’s adorable to get called a mungo by an entire town of 4th graders lmao
As to the last question (Why was school in session on a Saturday?) when I was in elementary school and middle school, back at the dawn of time, field trips on Saturday were common enough that you never gave it much thought. The trips were very popular and tended to go to places so far afield that the trip could not fit into the normal school day.
@@GTSN38 When I was in middle school, the biggest field trip of the year was to an outdoor play in Hemet, CA. About 150 miles by bus. We had to be on the bus by 7am. a 4 trip. Lunch, watch a 3 hour play waste an hour or so getting organized then another 4 hours back home. Most times we were lucky to make it back by 8:00pm. Exhausting.
When I was little, we would take trips into the DC area with the church we went to, it was just a field trip, exploring historical or Christian places. So maybe it was an out of school organized event?
It's also possible that in the Fallout timeline at the time of the Great War there was a six day school week. There are a few countries in our present that have 6 day school weeks (and many school districts in the US offer Saturday school though that's usually for students making up missed days, as punishment similar to detention, or that are at risk of being held back if their grades don't improve) and though schooling didn't start to become mandatory until the end of the 19th century and into the 20th it wasn't uncommon for there to be schooling offered on Saturdays since until the Victorian period most people only had Sunday off from work due to its religious nature for most Christians. Of course the actual reason is because earlier Fallout games established the Great War as occurring Saturday morning October 23rd, 2077 so Bethesda had to stick to that date even if their world building in Fallout 3 and 4 would make more sense for it to be on a Friday morning.
I feel like that should have been a side quest where a group in Big Town want to retake Little Lamplight by force if necessary but then there is the other choice where you can keep improving Big Town over time kinda like a mini workshop but without the player building things ourselves like in Fallout 4. We bring supplies and other things, overtime the town builds itself up like here is a new saloon or trader or water purifier.
In regards to your ending thought about it being a Saturday on 10/23/2077. Plenty of school trips happen on weekends. Especially if your school frowns on missing schoolwork for a field trip. Events happen all the time on weekends. My sister has 3 boys who LOVE sports. My BIL is a teacher and a coach. There are so many events for each kid that my parents will each grab a kid and hit one event. Then my BIL will have to coach in a 3rd location, whilst my sister grabs the last kid for another activity. Each of these things can be in totally different states, with some things back to back, or racing one kid to two+ events in two+ states. The majority of these things take place on the weekends, same thing for band. I remember as a kid going to the Boston Fine Arts Museum, and also to the Boston Aquarium(two different trips), and both of these things were on a Saturday. Our school hated us missing classroom time for field trips, and the only time I can remember going on a school day was our trip to Faneuil Hall in Boston. Just some food for thought. :)
maybe it's a culture thing, I'm from the opposite side of the country and while sports, band, all those extra-curricular activities do occur outside school hours, things like field trips are meant to augment a specific class or collection of classes and therefore take place during learning hours.
@@Theegreygaming I guess we have to do as much as we can during the parts of the year, not inundated with the dreaded white stuff :) You do what you can when you can up here in Maine!! 🥶
Most teachers are not going to work on a weekend for a field trip. I've never even heard of a field trip on a Saturday, sporting events and such yes, but no field trips
Newcomer to your channel and I've enjoyed your videos. Your settlement vids have helped me immensely in building my own settlements and I am glad to see that you're branching out into lore. With the exception of Oxhorn and one or two others, there's not a whole lot of lore vids being done now unfortunately. No disparagement intended on Ox or any of the others, but it is always good to see a fresh take on the subject. Looking forward to seeing more.
and for that reason alone, there are videos trying to explain why Fallout 3 was supposed to be set earlier and what it is now and then it can explain the reason why there is a settlement of kids as it was a recent event, but other than that that kind of society is doomed to failed or to finally grow up from it and start building their own lives if they are alive of course as I don´t know how a bunch of children could survive in a world with deathclaws and radscorpions but the adults couldn´t; again, interesting topic but really odd and creepy if you really start thinking about the details and even just the thought of: HOW?
Everyone has already brought up the issue about how their city is required to pass through just to get to and fro Vault 87, and is only protected by walls made of plywood, but even if this were retconned such that LL is in a different cave (if only), the same problem still exists with Raiders. Little Lamplight is a gimmick that has no proper logic to it whatsoever in any respect.
@spaceboy.digitalThis is my head canon. We know that Little Lamplight sends out scavenging parties. So, when the parties are scavenging, they occasionally find orphaned children, and take them along.
Why hasn't the Mutants overrun little lamp light? Hundred, probably close to thousands of Mutants from the vault that's literally only a few hundred feet from the child town go to downtown DC and yet they haven't taken little lamp light yet?
6:06 that is worded poorly, but considering we only see children and not teenagers... But it is strange that the grown ups are unable to make a good living, when as children it was possible.
No amount of explaining could ever make Little Lamplight work, in my opinion. Let's say there were 20 kids on the field trip and that they decided right from the start that you got the boot at 16. Grade 4s are usually 9 years old on average, so that's no more than 7 years to find 20 new children to replace them. Ideally these children would be less than 10 to give them the most amount of time before getting kicked out as well. Small populations are hard enough to sustain with 20 year generations. It's pure 'shut up, it's cool' to shorten that to 5 year generations and expect anything besides the initial group of now 16 year old teenagers taking any strays they had managed to adopt over the first 5 years of Little Lamplight's existence with them to go found Big Town.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Besides the procreation issue, there is one other glaring plot hole here: how has Little Lamplight never been attacked by the Super Mutants that a) literally live next door and b) have no other logical means of getting to the surface world except THROUGH Little Lamplight? Considering that the main questline establishes Vault 87 as the main source of Super Mutants in the Capital Wasteland, how is Little Lamplight not a Super Mutant stronghold in 2277?
its a Bethesda game and mutants have manners
That's not a "plot hole". There is no part of the plot of _Fallout 3_ concerned with that interaction or lack thereof. You're offering a critique of the setting, which is all well and good, but please learn the difference between that and a "plot hole".
@MegaZeta I see...so having to go to Vault 87 to acquire a G.E.C.K. is not, in fact, part of the main sequence of events of Fallout 3 (aka "the plot")? And Vault 87 being established as a primary source of Super Mutants in the Capital Wasteland is not, in fact, part of the main sequence of events in Fallout 3 (aka "the plot")? And Little Lamplight being established as the only way in and out of Vault 87 is not, in fact, part of the main sequence of events of Fallout 3 (aka "the plot")? And a lack of a logical explanation for how Little Lamplight is populated with children for over 200 years (without any evidence of the children having ever interacted with Super Mutants) when the Capital Wasteland is full of Super Mutants (the majority of which are clearly established as having come out of Vault 87 - which as we have established can only be accessed through Little Lamplight) does not, in fact, constitute a logical gap in the sequence of events in Fallout 3 (aka "a plot hole")? If you're going to parse words (and in the process call me or anyone else out for no apparent reason other than to make the person you are calling out look like a fool), maybe make it a point to know what you're talking about, eh?
@@geraldlamb9587
I accept your admission that I was correct, which appears in the form of two separate after-the-fact edits to your comments.
@@MegaZeta If you want to get pedantic about it, it would be closer to a "lore hole" in that case, but making sure things make sense setting-wise is pretty important either way.
It is worth mentioning that if other people know about Little Lamplight they may also get kids left on their doorstep from all over the Capital Wasteland. If a family of settlers have a kid and realize they can't feed them then it makes sense they would take them to a settlement exclusively for kids that seemed to be doing well. Idk how widespread knowledge of Little Lamplight is since it's been years since I played Fallout 3 but surely they haven't gome completely unnoticed. Kids from other settlements would also probably not no anything about Big Town as they're is no real reason to travel there since they are too poor to really trade so people from outside Big Town might not know it's where Lamplighters end up just thinking it's another poor town struggling to survive in the wasteland.
There’s two problems with this of course
Little lamplight cannot logically do well enough as a settlement because
1. They eat Cave mold Which is not a sustainable food source mainly because they need Human Meat to mass produce the cave mold but the issue with this is that the children have ZERO Clue that the mold feeds on Human Meat
They do mention that the mold likes a specific kind of meat but it’s never implied that they know what kind of meat it is
And 2. The children of Little Lamplight live Right next door to the Source of the Super mutants in the capital wasteland
And it’s not like Lamplight is heavily fortified either, All that’s keeping the super mutants from the children is a Wall made out of wooden planks
The mutants can easily tear it down and take/kill all the children at any time
@@mythicgamer5553 valid points but firstly if you're a wastelander with no food yourself I doubt it would matter of Little Lamplight didn't have the best food supply. Cave fungus might have flaws but it's gotten them this far and a random person trying to get rid of kid they can't take care of in a humane way instead of letting them die might not even know Little Lamplight is surviving exclusively off fungus. For all they might know they have plenty of food down there.
Second while I definitely understand traveling to Little Lamplight is dangerous they have survived down there since the war. Rather by dumb luck or actually having some sort of plan they're still alive. Also a random wastelanders wouldn't know about the security of Lamplight just like the food situation. Like I said it's been years since I've played Fallout 3 but isn't a big point that no one knows where the super mutants are coming from? I remember that being a big deal with the Brotherhood trying to find the super mutant's kinda base to stop the flow of them. I'm not saying Lamplight is a perfect settlement far from it. Im just pointing out that the population could be sustainable by adoptees brought to them not just by Big Town or kids they find orphaned while out scavenging but kids brought to them by parents from across the wasteland. I still think it's a combination as mentioned in the video but way more kids could be coming to Lamplight than implied. You're making good points to why Lamplight would suck to actually live in but not why it wouldn't be reasonable for wasteland parents who can't support a child to leave their kid at Lamplight's door in hopes that this legend of a settlement of kids is true and they can give your child a better life than you can. Also it's not like Lamplight is unique in having a unstable food supply or in danger of super mutants. Even if you knew what was wrong with Lamplight it still might be better than whatever ruined hovel your stuck in. At least Lamplight has stood the test of time, however unrealistic that might be.
@@Pegasus54321 I would Argue it is Definitely Not Better to live than Literally anywhere else
It doesn’t matter if no one knows where the super mutants come from
The problem is that The Children are Living right Next to the Source
They are In More Danger of getting attacked by Super mutants than every other settlement
It’s just as bad as Living in Megaton where there’s a Literal Atomic Bomb outside your house Or the Republic of Dave where everyone is living straight across from a Deathclaw Habitat
I don’t know why Bethesda thought it was a good decision but Logically, especially in the world of fallout
Living Next to something that can Kill you and everyone around you is NEVER a Good idea if you want to keep living in the post apocalypse
@@Pegasus54321 I’m not saying something like Lamplight can’t exist
But the Children should have really known to stay away from the super mutants as soon as they started appearing in the cave
Little Lamplight and the rise of New Vegas are the two timeline/lore things that never click in my head. I think because of this I really love both of them, that and it’s adorable to get called a mungo by an entire town of 4th graders lmao
As to the last question (Why was school in session on a Saturday?) when I was in elementary school and middle school, back at the dawn of time, field trips on Saturday were common enough that you never gave it much thought. The trips were very popular and tended to go to places so far afield that the trip could not fit into the normal school day.
I started kindergarten in 78, never heard of a field trip on Saturday.
@@GTSN38 When I was in middle school, the biggest field trip of the year was to an outdoor play in Hemet, CA. About 150 miles by bus. We had to be on the bus by 7am. a 4 trip. Lunch, watch a 3 hour play waste an hour or so getting organized then another 4 hours back home. Most times we were lucky to make it back by 8:00pm. Exhausting.
When I was little, we would take trips into the DC area with the church we went to, it was just a field trip, exploring historical or Christian places. So maybe it was an out of school organized event?
It's also possible that in the Fallout timeline at the time of the Great War there was a six day school week. There are a few countries in our present that have 6 day school weeks (and many school districts in the US offer Saturday school though that's usually for students making up missed days, as punishment similar to detention, or that are at risk of being held back if their grades don't improve) and though schooling didn't start to become mandatory until the end of the 19th century and into the 20th it wasn't uncommon for there to be schooling offered on Saturdays since until the Victorian period most people only had Sunday off from work due to its religious nature for most Christians. Of course the actual reason is because earlier Fallout games established the Great War as occurring Saturday morning October 23rd, 2077 so Bethesda had to stick to that date even if their world building in Fallout 3 and 4 would make more sense for it to be on a Friday morning.
Really? All that and no mention of the obvious? Why hasn’t Big Town just gone back and taken Lamplight?
I feel like that should have been a side quest where a group in Big Town want to retake Little Lamplight by force if necessary but then there is the other choice where you can keep improving Big Town over time kinda like a mini workshop but without the player building things ourselves like in Fallout 4. We bring supplies and other things, overtime the town builds itself up like here is a new saloon or trader or water purifier.
I was thinking the same
Maybe they did. And Macready beat their asses so bad big town fell into even worse self loathing and shame.
In regards to your ending thought about it being a Saturday on 10/23/2077. Plenty of school trips happen on weekends. Especially if your school frowns on missing schoolwork for a field trip. Events happen all the time on weekends. My sister has 3 boys who LOVE sports. My BIL is a teacher and a coach. There are so many events for each kid that my parents will each grab a kid and hit one event. Then my BIL will have to coach in a 3rd location, whilst my sister grabs the last kid for another activity. Each of these things can be in totally different states, with some things back to back, or racing one kid to two+ events in two+ states. The majority of these things take place on the weekends, same thing for band. I remember as a kid going to the Boston Fine Arts Museum, and also to the Boston Aquarium(two different trips), and both of these things were on a Saturday. Our school hated us missing classroom time for field trips, and the only time I can remember going on a school day was our trip to Faneuil Hall in Boston. Just some food for thought. :)
maybe it's a culture thing, I'm from the opposite side of the country and while sports, band, all those extra-curricular activities do occur outside school hours, things like field trips are meant to augment a specific class or collection of classes and therefore take place during learning hours.
@@Theegreygaming I guess we have to do as much as we can during the parts of the year, not inundated with the dreaded white stuff :) You do what you can when you can up here in Maine!! 🥶
I ain’t reading allat but we🆙💯🔥🔥❗️🙏💯🗣️🔥🔥
Most teachers are not going to work on a weekend for a field trip. I've never even heard of a field trip on a Saturday, sporting events and such yes, but no field trips
Newcomer to your channel and I've enjoyed your videos. Your settlement vids have helped me immensely in building my own settlements and I am glad to see that you're branching out into lore. With the exception of Oxhorn and one or two others, there's not a whole lot of lore vids being done now unfortunately. No disparagement intended on Ox or any of the others, but it is always good to see a fresh take on the subject. Looking forward to seeing more.
and for that reason alone, there are videos trying to explain why Fallout 3 was supposed to be set earlier and what it is now and then it can explain the reason why there is a settlement of kids as it was a recent event, but other than that that kind of society is doomed to failed or to finally grow up from it and start building their own lives if they are alive of course as I don´t know how a bunch of children could survive in a world with deathclaws and radscorpions but the adults couldn´t; again, interesting topic but really odd and creepy if you really start thinking about the details and even just the thought of: HOW?
I reckon they're synths, and just accept that every so often a new "child" is randomly teleported in.
Everyone has already brought up the issue about how their city is required to pass through just to get to and fro Vault 87, and is only protected by walls made of plywood, but even if this were retconned such that LL is in a different cave (if only), the same problem still exists with Raiders. Little Lamplight is a gimmick that has no proper logic to it whatsoever in any respect.
@spaceboy.digitalThis is my head canon. We know that Little Lamplight sends out scavenging parties. So, when the parties are scavenging, they occasionally find orphaned children, and take them along.
Why hasn't the Mutants overrun little lamp light? Hundred, probably close to thousands of Mutants from the vault that's literally only a few hundred feet from the child town go to downtown DC and yet they haven't taken little lamp light yet?
I love lore videos like this. ❤️
This is one of the biggest leftovers from the original story concept for Fallout 3 in which Fallout 3 took place much earlier, just after the war.
Never was a crazy fan of how they handled lamplight
6:06 that is worded poorly, but considering we only see children and not teenagers...
But it is strange that the grown ups are unable to make a good living, when as children it was possible.
I struggled with finding a non-creepy way of dealing with the problem of new Lamplighters.
@@Theegreygaming It show, the one used is still creepy and weird.
McCready is 13.
I remember reading a fallout fic that addressed the procreation issue and well….
It wasn’t a very moral solution.
Nice video
No amount of explaining could ever make Little Lamplight work, in my opinion. Let's say there were 20 kids on the field trip and that they decided right from the start that you got the boot at 16. Grade 4s are usually 9 years old on average, so that's no more than 7 years to find 20 new children to replace them. Ideally these children would be less than 10 to give them the most amount of time before getting kicked out as well.
Small populations are hard enough to sustain with 20 year generations. It's pure 'shut up, it's cool' to shorten that to 5 year generations and expect anything besides the initial group of now 16 year old teenagers taking any strays they had managed to adopt over the first 5 years of Little Lamplight's existence with them to go found Big Town.