Fantastic stuff guys! May I suggest showing pictures of the cars you are talking about on the TV monitor in the background. Would be a great and useful visual for those watching the video form of the podcast on UA-cam.
Enjoyed this chat. I've owned Porsches since 1995. My first one was a 944 S2 Cabriolet which I owned for 3 years. I then went on to buy the following: 964 Jubilee, 996 GT3, 930 Speedster, 964 Speedster, 993 Turbo, 964 Turbo 3.6, 997 GT3 RS 4.0, 981 GT4, 981 Spyder, 718 Spyder, 718 GT4 RS and 718 Spyder RS. I've also driven most other Porsches for UA-cam. The GT4 RS is sensational. I still can't believe they put the GT3 engine into the Cayman. For looks I think it's hard to beat a 1989 black 930 Turbo.
Excellent episode of a great podcast.... In term of constructive feedback - I listened to the Podcast and found Adnrew's sound to fade in and out throughout... Don't tell him, but happy to hear more from him if he stays closer to the Mic. 🙂
There’s a YT video analysis of a 911 and Cayman strip-down, which shows that they are substantially the same car underneath. Porsche’s real genius is in marketing subtle variations as different models in their own right. Thus maintaining interest and crucially, relevance - because there’s always a new variant to test/feature. They’re obviously good at what they do, because the motoring press will pick up on it all and talk endlessly about it and we, the buying public will lap it all up, buy the dam things and stand around at cars&coffee events talking about how much better this parts-bin-special is, vs that one. Bloody genius.
Not to downplay the role of marketing here, but I think the key is all engineering. All the parts bin specials for the most part offer drastically different driving experiences. A Carrera feels very little like a Cayman. A GT4 RS is nothing like a GT3, or a GT4. A Dakar is not like a 4 GTS. An S/T is nothing like the GT3RS, and so on... None of the parts bin specials, particularly at the higher end, feel like it - because they all use a different recipe to make a different meal of the same ingredients. When all the food tastes good and new, criticising the ingredients feels redundant. When the final meal is basically the same, ala Cayman "Style Edition" or Macan T, then you get criticism no amount of marketing can divert, but still, critics moderate their distaste even then, because they're still good cars, and there's no getting around that.
@@MacellaioNeroThey ALL feel similar. A full-size luxury SUV feels different, old luxury sedans feel different from Porsche sports cars. My 911 manual vs my Boxster PDK? Very similar.
@@computerhelpcc Nah. Some models are more similar than others, but if you tell me a C2S feels like a GT4, or a 911 S/T, or a GT3, or a Dakar, then I won't believe you, because they don't. "They ALL feel similar" is just ignorance. The two you have may feel similar, but that experience isn't sufficient to claim every other Porsche sports car is the same as the two you have. That's just irrational. Besides, even your 911 and Boxster will feel significantly different when driven hard enough to feel and understand the impact of weight balance on handling dynamics. That's just physics. They won't feel as different from each other as they would from an SUV or a luxury sedan, but that's not a good criteria to judge any sports car.
@@MacellaioNero Yes, one can tell differences; yes rear engine vs mid is different enough to be interesting. No ignorance or irrationality. Perspective of scale.
@@computerhelpcc It just doesn't seem like a very helpful perspective of scale given the nature of the conversation. You drive a GT3 and a Carrera and they might be more similar to each other than a 2008 Volvo XC90, but that information doesn't help anyone - because why would anyone expect different? There's no reason to bring SUVs or luxury sedans into it and "They ALL feel similar" is still just factually incorrect.
I remember reading about the speedsters in 1988 (back then the 911 was still a new car pre-964 days) were meant for California, and that the roof leaked in rain if driven in Europe so they were a good weather car only designed to be driven with roof down. Also the current 991 speedster uses a GT3 engine
You know how bored I am of hearing journalists gush about the 911? Very. I nearly skipped this episode. But for some reason when I listen to you two talk about them it's fascinating. Your passion and real, first hand knowledge really shine through.
Pedant alret(!) - the 997 Sport Classic was a rwd GTS under the skin so had the 408bhp engine. The whole thing was just an advert for the abilities of the Sonderwunsch programme with the very stylised interior goodies. I love tjhe way they look (rear ducktails are ace), and I like the the completely pointless double-bubble roof too, but agree it's a bit of an oddity...
But the carrera S and the GTS have the same engine, it's just that the GTS has the optional power kit as standard as does the sport classic, so you could say it is a Carrera S with the power kit and some fancy alloys and interior.
996.1 GT3 - Andreas P. wasnt involved. He took over subsequently and regards the 996.2 GT3 as a completely different car in terms of their approach and the GT departments actual starting point.
Shame you didn’t mention the worst 911, the Millennium special edition. Sports suspension, leather everything , 996 Carrera 4 with chrome wheels, wooden steering wheel and metallic flip paint. Too heavy to be sporty and too harsh to be luxurious. My first 911, probably not my finest choice but I’m still hooked on Porsche.
This will interest people in the same way people talk about Harley Davidson special editions, forgetting it's a marketing thrust rather than what they hope is a homologation act of god.
This podcast would do well to try to appeal to a broader audience. You’re holding yourselves back being so focused on UK. Yes, that’s where you live but other, more successful colleagues, are able to adapt and not mention “bumpy B Roads” for EVERY review. I really hope you succeed, but this is a blind spot for you.
I would also add into the mix the fact this is just ex EVO Journalists talking to each other not young people or 51% of car buyers Women. Go to any launch or event and there will be the hacks outside smoking, they want to find the thing to write about or film and head to the restaurant, the Roy Lanchester meme was not built out of thin air. People who buy cars are not motivated in the same way and an easy way to find that is to ask a car Journalists what their partner drives. Also people who buy at the top end of cars are also just wanting to have the most expensive version of whatever it is, the highest spec list or most egregious accessory to simply outdo each other or to help get the next one. You can't walk into a Porsche or Ferrari dealer and buy a special model, Chris Harris illustrated this with the 911R. I think at the moment it's around £400k/year on non GT products/events etc to get a foot in Britain for a GT allocation. Are there people who are living vicariously through these people, yes in the same way your wife is waiting 2 years for a AMG G-wagon because of the Kardashian factor, not because it's a good 4x4 and these guys miss the point of why manufacturers do this and why people buy them. In theory you should be able to get any version of the car combination you want, a 992 Spyder with Dakar or 911R undercarriage in any colour and just pay for those parts. All Porsches are built to order not just the GT products. Not being able to do this is a business model to create a problem even if there is not one or it is made artificially to create a ladder, like the Rolex business.
Max Hoffmann also was a Jew, born in Austria who flew from the Nazis. He started to import German cars into the USA in 1947! He had his hand in the development of the 300SL, Alfa Giuietta Spider, BMW 507, Porsche 356 Speedster, 190 SL and the Porsche Crest!
i find it challenging to watch/listen to this podcast, one guy speaks normally and I can hear him, while the other is whispering, now i constantly have to adjust the volume 😐
The worst has got to be the 992 Targa 4 GTS 50 Years Porsche Design Edition. The most unimaginative cash-grab Porsche has done in years with stupid name and not many upgrades from the normal Targa GTS. Say what you want about Targa Heritage Edition, that car has spiffing colour option and retro-tastic interior. This one is just black. The best? Ties between 991.2 Speedster, 991.1 R and 987.2 Cayman R, followed with 997.2 RS 4.0 and 997.2 GT2 RS. 997 Sport Classic is gorgeous but it's basically 997 GTS in fancy suit and shoes with horrific price tag.
Fantastic stuff guys! May I suggest showing pictures of the cars you are talking about on the TV monitor in the background. Would be a great and useful visual for those watching the video form of the podcast on UA-cam.
Sections as well. Will be very helpful.
@@BorisHristov Totally agree with you Boris.
@@BarikSingh yeah. I would love to be able to listen to just the conversation around some specific models. :)
Images would help massively
Exactly, found myself looking up all the cars!😭😂
Excited to keep watching but this could really use inserts for the various cars being discussed for those of us who don't know all of this already
Enjoyed this chat. I've owned Porsches since 1995. My first one was a 944 S2 Cabriolet which I owned for 3 years. I then went on to buy the following: 964 Jubilee, 996 GT3, 930 Speedster, 964 Speedster, 993 Turbo, 964 Turbo 3.6, 997 GT3 RS 4.0, 981 GT4, 981 Spyder, 718 Spyder, 718 GT4 RS and 718 Spyder RS. I've also driven most other Porsches for UA-cam. The GT4 RS is sensational. I still can't believe they put the GT3 engine into the Cayman. For looks I think it's hard to beat a 1989 black 930 Turbo.
Great Pod but you guys got a screen please use it. Didn’t know half the cars without images
Guys, how can you NOT pop up some saucy pictures of the models you bring up?
Excellent episode of a great podcast.... In term of constructive feedback - I listened to the Podcast and found Adnrew's sound to fade in and out throughout... Don't tell him, but happy to hear more from him if he stays closer to the Mic. 🙂
There’s a YT video analysis of a 911 and Cayman strip-down, which shows that they are substantially the same car underneath.
Porsche’s real genius is in marketing subtle variations as different models in their own right. Thus maintaining interest and crucially, relevance - because there’s always a new variant to test/feature.
They’re obviously good at what they do, because the motoring press will pick up on it all and talk endlessly about it and we, the buying public will lap it all up, buy the dam things and stand around at cars&coffee events talking about how much better this parts-bin-special is, vs that one.
Bloody genius.
Not to downplay the role of marketing here, but I think the key is all engineering. All the parts bin specials for the most part offer drastically different driving experiences. A Carrera feels very little like a Cayman. A GT4 RS is nothing like a GT3, or a GT4. A Dakar is not like a 4 GTS. An S/T is nothing like the GT3RS, and so on...
None of the parts bin specials, particularly at the higher end, feel like it - because they all use a different recipe to make a different meal of the same ingredients. When all the food tastes good and new, criticising the ingredients feels redundant.
When the final meal is basically the same, ala Cayman "Style Edition" or Macan T, then you get criticism no amount of marketing can divert, but still, critics moderate their distaste even then, because they're still good cars, and there's no getting around that.
@@MacellaioNeroThey ALL feel similar. A full-size luxury SUV feels different, old luxury sedans feel different from Porsche sports cars. My 911 manual vs my Boxster PDK? Very similar.
@@computerhelpcc Nah. Some models are more similar than others, but if you tell me a C2S feels like a GT4, or a 911 S/T, or a GT3, or a Dakar, then I won't believe you, because they don't. "They ALL feel similar" is just ignorance. The two you have may feel similar, but that experience isn't sufficient to claim every other Porsche sports car is the same as the two you have. That's just irrational.
Besides, even your 911 and Boxster will feel significantly different when driven hard enough to feel and understand the impact of weight balance on handling dynamics. That's just physics. They won't feel as different from each other as they would from an SUV or a luxury sedan, but that's not a good criteria to judge any sports car.
@@MacellaioNero Yes, one can tell differences; yes rear engine vs mid is different enough to be interesting. No ignorance or irrationality. Perspective of scale.
@@computerhelpcc It just doesn't seem like a very helpful perspective of scale given the nature of the conversation. You drive a GT3 and a Carrera and they might be more similar to each other than a 2008 Volvo XC90, but that information doesn't help anyone - because why would anyone expect different? There's no reason to bring SUVs or luxury sedans into it and "They ALL feel similar" is still just factually incorrect.
Would be helpful to display an image of the car you are talking about so one can quickly go to the section they are most interested in
Excellent podcast as usual. Keep the good working going.
I remember reading about the speedsters in 1988 (back then the 911 was still a new car pre-964 days) were meant for California, and that the roof leaked in rain if driven in Europe so they were a good weather car only designed to be driven with roof down. Also the current 991 speedster uses a GT3 engine
You know how bored I am of hearing journalists gush about the 911?
Very. I nearly skipped this episode.
But for some reason when I listen to you two talk about them it's fascinating. Your passion and real, first hand knowledge really shine through.
Did someone mention the Carrera S 993 ?
I haven't watched even a minute and I can already conclude that one of them is gonna say..."all of them are fantastic"
I'm from Dubai. I bought the Porsche 911 and used it for two years and sold it at the same price after two years of use.
Pedant alret(!) - the 997 Sport Classic was a rwd GTS under the skin so had the 408bhp engine. The whole thing was just an advert for the abilities of the Sonderwunsch programme with the very stylised interior goodies. I love tjhe way they look (rear ducktails are ace), and I like the the completely pointless double-bubble roof too, but agree it's a bit of an oddity...
Correct. It had 408 HP.
But the carrera S and the GTS have the same engine, it's just that the GTS has the optional power kit as standard as does the sport classic, so you could say it is a Carrera S with the power kit and some fancy alloys and interior.
The 992 Sport Classic has 550bhp, it actually reminds me of a 930 turbo, rear wheel drive turbo, manual gearbox.
My favourite is the 997 Turbo that was sold to 918 owners before they took delivery.
Why not show some pictures?
You forgot a couple: Boxster RS60, Cayman R, etc.
991 Speedster has the 992 gt3 engine in it, with individual throttle bodies
996.1 GT3 - Andreas P. wasnt involved. He took over subsequently and regards the 996.2 GT3 as a completely different car in terms of their approach and the GT departments actual starting point.
Shame you didn’t mention the worst 911, the Millennium special edition. Sports suspension, leather everything , 996 Carrera 4 with chrome wheels, wooden steering wheel and metallic flip paint. Too heavy to be sporty and too harsh to be luxurious. My first 911, probably not my finest choice but I’m still hooked on Porsche.
This will interest people in the same way people talk about Harley Davidson special editions, forgetting it's a marketing thrust rather than what they hope is a homologation act of god.
This podcast would do well to try to appeal to a broader audience. You’re holding yourselves back being so focused on UK. Yes, that’s where you live but other, more successful colleagues, are able to adapt and not mention “bumpy B Roads” for EVERY review.
I really hope you succeed, but this is a blind spot for you.
I would also add into the mix the fact this is just ex EVO Journalists talking to each other not young people or 51% of car buyers Women. Go to any launch or event and there will be the hacks outside smoking, they want to find the thing to write about or film and head to the restaurant, the Roy Lanchester meme was not built out of thin air. People who buy cars are not motivated in the same way and an easy way to find that is to ask a car Journalists what their partner drives. Also people who buy at the top end of cars are also just wanting to have the most expensive version of whatever it is, the highest spec list or most egregious accessory to simply outdo each other or to help get the next one. You can't walk into a Porsche or Ferrari dealer and buy a special model, Chris Harris illustrated this with the 911R. I think at the moment it's around £400k/year on non GT products/events etc to get a foot in Britain for a GT allocation. Are there people who are living vicariously through these people, yes in the same way your wife is waiting 2 years for a AMG G-wagon because of the Kardashian factor, not because it's a good 4x4 and these guys miss the point of why manufacturers do this and why people buy them. In theory you should be able to get any version of the car combination you want, a 992 Spyder with Dakar or 911R undercarriage in any colour and just pay for those parts. All Porsches are built to order not just the GT products. Not being able to do this is a business model to create a problem even if there is not one or it is made artificially to create a ladder, like the Rolex business.
Time for you guys to drive a manual 987.2 Spyder with buckets - it’s a totally different philosophy to a Speedster…
993 turbo S deserves a mention, so does the 996.2 40th anniversary.
I have only driven one Porsche gt car, 993 gt2 and it was a something..😱
Max Hoffmann also was a Jew, born in Austria who flew from the Nazis. He started to import German cars into the USA in 1947! He had his hand in the development of the 300SL, Alfa Giuietta Spider, BMW 507, Porsche 356 Speedster, 190 SL and the Porsche Crest!
Sigh, could someone look at the audio levels of the podcast? Andrew had a habit of whispering every model name whilst Dan shattered the speakers.
i find it challenging to watch/listen to this podcast, one guy speaks normally and I can hear him, while the other is whispering, now i constantly have to adjust the volume 😐
The worst has got to be the 992 Targa 4 GTS 50 Years Porsche Design Edition. The most unimaginative cash-grab Porsche has done in years with stupid name and not many upgrades from the normal Targa GTS. Say what you want about Targa Heritage Edition, that car has spiffing colour option and retro-tastic interior. This one is just black.
The best? Ties between 991.2 Speedster, 991.1 R and 987.2 Cayman R, followed with 997.2 RS 4.0 and 997.2 GT2 RS. 997 Sport Classic is gorgeous but it's basically 997 GTS in fancy suit and shoes with horrific price tag.
I don't buy normal or special edition Porsches.... i only buy singers, rufs, Gunther werks, theon, and manthey racing modified Porsches
k
K. .. Must be tough being you. .... later.
It was disappointing that there was no mention on the 987 Cayman R