I wasn't a fan of Images until I listened to Martinon's exciting, vibrant recording with the ORTF. Martinon has an exquisite, precise sense of color and texture.
Thank you for your choices, always relevant. Among the French conductors, I think that we should not forget the recording of Inghelbrecht (conductor and composer, like Martinon) conducting the French national radio orchestra - ORTF - (in the mid-1950s) because he knew Debussy with whom he worked. Its interpretation combines transparency and precision with an orchestra very familiar with this repertoire and which, it seems to me, still has a "French" sound.
Boulez/Cleveland (Sony) HAS to be one of the great Debussy recordings of all time. I totally agree with your comments regarding its clarity and "hard-outline"... combined with the all-important elegant, SUPPLE quality that this music needs, and which Boulez and the superb, refined Cleveland Orchestra provide. The "muted" Tambour in Iberia's first movement...during the lovely "yawning" trombone glissandi..is so beautifully calculated, with light, crystalline piccolo melody and distant trumpet fanfares....it's SO GOOD. Similarly, Boulez's Ronde des Printemps has EXACTLY the laid-back, slightly lazy, sensuous, supple feel (the main 15/8 theme) that NOBODY else that I've heard captures in the same way. Also..the Tambour (played by Cleveland's superb principal Richard Weiner) precisely follows Boulez' (and Debussy's) subtle relaxing of the tempo near the end. Unbeatable. HOWEVER...I'm now ready to sample one of MTT's recordings, based on your recommendation. As you know, the overall QUALITY of the sound is critical to this music...NO "muscle" for me...absolutely not! (in Debussy's piano music, Moravec nails it consistently; I also heard Barenboim play "Pagodes" in concert; it was otherworldly. But has he recorded any significant amount of Debussy?) One more note: for me, a CLOSE-SECOND to Boulez/Cleveland #1 is JUN MARKL/Lyon on Naxos...he gets it RIGHT! Lovely, detailed, smooth, supple, rhythmically alert.....a tad faster than Boulez in "Rondes" but really good. LR
Your remark about composer-conductors tending to succeed extra well with Images was borne out here in Cincinnati a year or so ago: Matthias Pintscher did it very beautifully. I've owned that glorious Michael Tilson Thomas Boston recording on vinyl since it was fairly new. I think he was still in his twenties when he made it, which makes it all the more remarkable.
My favorites are first and foremost both of Boulez’s recordings, but I also think Rattle’s with the CBSO is excellent and one of his best recordings. I’ll have to get one of MTT’s. Thanks!
Hi David! Wonderful overview. I’ve always loved Lenny n.y Lenny is probably the most underrated conductor of French rep. His Debussy ravel roussel 3 honeybee all great. Enjoying your channel so much. Wishing you well
Thanks for the excellent discussion. I had Ansermet and Monteux's Images in my collection. For me Monteux's insight into Images is so tremendous, I just cannot be without his LSO recording. As for Anserment, finally dumped it and replaced it with Boulez's Cleveland and Tilson Thomas' Boston recordings. Both simply magnificent, as you rightly said, yet sufficiently different in approach that it is worth having both in my collection. Interestingly, I did compare the Tilson Thomas with his newer recording with San Francisco - can't quite put my finger on it, perhaps its the sounds of the orchestra, but something about the San Fransisco recording makes it for me not quite the type of Debussy I like, even though the recording quality is brilliant. Lastly I need to mention, I know you only focused on complete recordings of Images here. But for a partial recording, only containing the middle 3 movements called Iberia, the magnificent recording of Paul Paray with Detroit SO I think is a must hear for all lovers of Debussy.
I missed the Michael Tilson Thomas recordings, so thank you so much for putting me on to them. The San Francisco disc sounds lovely streaming from Qobuz. Great purchase.
Thanks for mentioning the Baudo Mr H - a voluptuous but detailed performance (I really like his Debussy collection for EMI with the LPO too - La Mer particularly). The Tilson Thomas BSO is, as you say gorgeous ( I have it with the strange Tchaikovsky 1st Symphony coupling but that's great too). DG did some marvellous stuff in Boston - Abbado's Debussy Nocturnes is stunning (the BPO version he did can't hold a candle to that).
Happy Birthday, David. May you be blessed on your big day, as you bless us with each of these. Example: I never would have known about Baudo without you, and I love hearing the halls on recordings! Yes, I like the spotlighted micing on those old Szell and Bernstein recordings, but clarity and reverberance. That's my thing. Others have mentioned Haitink, which gets pride of place with me because - you know - it's how I first heard it. But I do enjoy Previn and the LSO on EMI. Quite good. Again, enjoy some cake!
I bought and listened to the Baudo recording, and it's glorious; the other works on the album are great, too. I'm listening to "Prélude à l'après-midi d'un faune" right now, and it's one of the loveliest I've heard, with the reverberant acoustic giving it a truly ethereal feel.
Hello David, Thank you for another of your fine, thought-provoking, exercises in finding the better (if not 'the best') of the recordings of various musical works, in this instance, Debussy's Images pour orchestre. I enjoy your explorations of a wide range of compositions, delivered with the panache which defines all of your presentations. Your comparison of this period of Debussy to Seurat's pointillist aesthetic in painting is, I believe, in the main, correct. My only addition would be to point out that he was known by the handle 'Georges Seurat,' rather than 'Jacques.' Keep these wonderful reviews and recommendations coming!
I heard Boulez perform Debussy's Images in Cleveland around the same time he made the recordings for DG (the rest of the program was Debussy's Première rhapsodie and Stravinsky's Petruchka). He played the Images out of order (3, 1, 2 I believe) which threw me off. The recording puts them back in the right order, but I used to program them the way he did in concert. I was there primarily to see Franklin Cohen perform the rhapsodie. He was my college professor's instructor. It may have been our seats, but the orchestra drowned him out. When we got back to school, we had an interesting masterclass. How do you criticize your professor's instructor? :-) Salonen is my favorite with Tilson-Thomas in SF a close second. The sound in both the glorious.
My first Images, purchased at 15 or so at Woolworth or out of some budget bin, was Munch/BSO on RCA Victrola, paired with -- wait for it -- Barber's Medea's Meditation and Dance of Vengeance. Whoa! I can't really say that this became my go-to performance, great as it is. But it was my first deep dive into Debussy, especially his elusive and mercurial side, leading me to a lifetime of fascination.
Another great surprise. Apart from your good grasp of Spanish and your insight on Esteban Sanchez, your acknowledgement of Ataulfo Argenta make me think you might have some Spanish ancestry! Ataulfo Argenta was one of those too numerous emerging geniuses whom we could not enjoy as the matured. What he achieved in his limited Decca recordings only makes it more difficult, as to what could have been. I suppose you know the legend that says that many of his radio recordings with the National Orchestra of Spain where lost as they reused the tapes to record soccer games over them. Perhaps you have heard his Beethoven 3rd? It has some great moments, in my opinion, specially in the 2nd and 3rd movements. Anyway, his is a great Debussy recording. As is Baudo's, another favorite of mine. Thank you very much for so many enjoyable recommendations!
Actually, I am aware of Argenta's larger Spanish discography, especially the many Zarzuela discs. And my family (on my mother's side) does descend form Sephardic Jews who fled Spain during the Inquisition--or so I was told. They were traders from Cadiz or thereabouts.
I think you hit the nail on the head for me, I need a little muscle to truly enjoy Debussy and Munch has been my go-to conductor, although I have the ones paired with Ravel and Saint-Saens on RCA. Outside of that, I do enjoy Stokowski's Debussy, especially on that crazy Phase 4 sound, but I am not sure if he recorded the complete Images or just the Iberia portion. Thanks for the video!
I first got to know the Images around 1980 via the Andre Previn / LSO recording on LP. It was EMI's first digital release and it was a sensation at the time, so it is strange that it does not seem to be currently available (except maybe on a Japanese CD). But I thought the music was ho-hum - and I still do. Maybe in another 40 years' time I'll get to like it. By the way, like you I thought that Debussy never went to Spain. But it seems that he did make one brief visit - because he wanted to see a bullfight.
I have this one too and liked it at the time but haven't listened to it in quite awhile. I bought it on an early EMI CD in '85 and just dug it out to sample it and can hear that glassy early digital sound that's quite unpleasant, and Previn's conception seems to be of the lush, generic romantic orchestral music variety that may not suit the music entirely, and he's very lumbering in the Iberia. Probably stick with David's recommendations on this piece to get what it's all about.
"With that in mind, let's keep on listening..." Amen, brother. Often with your videos I have to consult my text database to see which of the recordings you've recommended that I actually own. Sometimes the congruency of results is good, sometimes not so good. Luckily, it turns out that I have Beinum, Tilson-Thomas/Boston, Martinon, and Boulez/Cleveland/Sony, and a bunch of others you didn't mention. So, not too bad.
Bonjour David, I agree with your choices. I should add Stéphane Denève on Chandos too. What do you think of the Lan Shui on Bis (which I haven't listened yet) ?
Denève is great, Shui good but not remarkable (and very pricey), and I was on the fence regarding Cluytens too. There are others as well, but again, this was just one of those situations that I felt I had more than enough to talk about and I just drew the line after ten versions or so.
Hello Mr Hurwitz. I would like to ask you to talk about recordings of American symphonies. Copland, Harris, Piston, Schuman, Diamond, Barber, etc. I would also like to hear your opinion of the symphonies of Bax, Rubbra and Malcolm.
Wondering how you feel about Libor Pesek's version with the Czech Philharmonic vis a vis Baudo's? I haven't heard Baudo, but Pesek seems nice and crisp to me.
I very much like the Tilson Thomas. Frankly, I think it's among the best things he's ever done. However, am I wrong in thinking the Haitink/Concertgebouw one is also quite good?
I think his Nocturnes is his best Debussy. Images had a kind of pale Iberia, but the other two were terrific. I was thinking about including them in the discussion, but I just wasn't sold on that Iberia. And I already had Beinum for purposes of this discussion.
Not ‘wrong’ by any means. For what it’s worth, the Haitink was awarded first place on BBC radio 3’s ‘Building a Library’ programme. I enjoyed growing up with the Haitink version but keen to investigate MTT and others after this video.
@@mistywalters Nonsense. One man's dragging is another man's atmosphere, within reasonable limits of course--and not to criticize your personal preference.
@@mistywalters I know what the timings are. .I have the discs, remember? The fact that one is longer than the other doesn't mean the longer one is too slow, but if you find it so, then that's fine. I don't.
I for one did indeed pay attention to the Salonen LA Phil debussy disc. One of my favorite discs. Ah, the Serge Baudo on Supraphon. You know I have that one as I am top heavy with the old Czech Philharmonic. Just listen to them! I think Baudo retired a few years back, if memory serves. But wait, no Previn and the LSO? That one is regarded by many as one of the best, including me.
I've lived with Monteux's Images for decades on vinyl and then cd, wondering why I wasn't in line with reviewers in G magazine and the usual 'recommended recordings' tomes, who were gaga over it. Seemed rather slack, underpowered, docile. I've heard it done far better live (Andrew Davis and the Toronto Symphony) and on a World Record Club issue, with Munch I think. Must check out the Tilson Thomas, who impressed me with his Martyre de Saint Sebastian on Sony.
I wasn't a fan of Images until I listened to Martinon's exciting, vibrant recording with the ORTF. Martinon has an exquisite, precise sense of color and texture.
Thank you for your choices, always relevant. Among the French conductors, I think that we should not forget the recording of Inghelbrecht (conductor and composer, like Martinon) conducting the French national radio orchestra - ORTF - (in the mid-1950s) because he knew Debussy with whom he worked. Its interpretation combines transparency and precision with an orchestra very familiar with this repertoire and which, it seems to me, still has a "French" sound.
You shouted out to Previn’s fine recording of this in his box set which is my personal favorite.
Boulez/Cleveland (Sony) HAS to be one of the great Debussy recordings of all time. I totally agree with your comments regarding its clarity and "hard-outline"... combined with the all-important elegant, SUPPLE quality that this music needs, and which Boulez and the superb, refined Cleveland Orchestra provide. The "muted" Tambour in Iberia's first movement...during the lovely "yawning" trombone glissandi..is so beautifully calculated, with light, crystalline piccolo melody and distant trumpet fanfares....it's SO GOOD. Similarly, Boulez's Ronde des Printemps has EXACTLY the laid-back, slightly lazy, sensuous, supple feel (the main 15/8 theme) that NOBODY else that I've heard captures in the same way. Also..the Tambour (played by Cleveland's superb principal Richard Weiner) precisely follows Boulez' (and Debussy's) subtle relaxing of the tempo near the end. Unbeatable.
HOWEVER...I'm now ready to sample one of MTT's recordings, based on your recommendation. As you know, the overall QUALITY of the sound is critical to this music...NO "muscle" for me...absolutely not! (in Debussy's piano music, Moravec nails it consistently; I also heard Barenboim play "Pagodes" in concert; it was otherworldly. But has he recorded any significant amount of Debussy?)
One more note: for me, a CLOSE-SECOND to Boulez/Cleveland #1 is JUN MARKL/Lyon on Naxos...he gets it RIGHT!
Lovely, detailed, smooth, supple, rhythmically alert.....a tad faster than Boulez in "Rondes" but really good. LR
Your remark about composer-conductors tending to succeed extra well with Images was borne out here in Cincinnati a year or so ago: Matthias Pintscher did it very beautifully. I've owned that glorious Michael Tilson Thomas Boston recording on vinyl since it was fairly new. I think he was still in his twenties when he made it, which makes it all the more remarkable.
My favorites are first and foremost both of Boulez’s recordings, but I also think Rattle’s with the CBSO is excellent and one of his best recordings. I’ll have to get one of MTT’s. Thanks!
Hi David! Wonderful overview. I’ve always loved Lenny n.y Lenny is probably the most underrated conductor of French rep.
His Debussy ravel roussel 3 honeybee all great. Enjoying your channel so much. Wishing you well
Thanks. Yes, LBs Roussel is great.
Thanks for the excellent discussion. I had Ansermet and Monteux's Images in my collection. For me Monteux's insight into Images is so tremendous, I just cannot be without his LSO recording. As for Anserment, finally dumped it and replaced it with Boulez's Cleveland and Tilson Thomas' Boston recordings. Both simply magnificent, as you rightly said, yet sufficiently different in approach that it is worth having both in my collection. Interestingly, I did compare the Tilson Thomas with his newer recording with San Francisco - can't quite put my finger on it, perhaps its the sounds of the orchestra, but something about the San Fransisco recording makes it for me not quite the type of Debussy I like, even though the recording quality is brilliant.
Lastly I need to mention, I know you only focused on complete recordings of Images here. But for a partial recording, only containing the middle 3 movements called Iberia, the magnificent recording of Paul Paray with Detroit SO I think is a must hear for all lovers of Debussy.
I missed the Michael Tilson Thomas recordings, so thank you so much for putting me on to them. The San Francisco disc sounds lovely streaming from Qobuz. Great purchase.
Thanks for mentioning the Baudo Mr H - a voluptuous but detailed performance (I really like his Debussy collection for EMI with the LPO too - La Mer particularly). The Tilson Thomas BSO is, as you say gorgeous ( I have it with the strange Tchaikovsky 1st Symphony coupling but that's great too). DG did some marvellous stuff in Boston - Abbado's Debussy Nocturnes is stunning (the BPO version he did can't hold a candle to that).
Good call!
Happy Birthday, David. May you be blessed on your big day, as you bless us with each of these. Example: I never would have known about Baudo without you, and I love hearing the halls on recordings! Yes, I like the spotlighted micing on those old Szell and Bernstein recordings, but clarity and reverberance. That's my thing.
Others have mentioned Haitink, which gets pride of place with me because - you know - it's how I first heard it. But I do enjoy Previn and the LSO on EMI. Quite good. Again, enjoy some cake!
Thanks very much!
I bought and listened to the Baudo recording, and it's glorious; the other works on the album are great, too. I'm listening to "Prélude à l'après-midi d'un faune" right now, and it's one of the loveliest I've heard, with the reverberant acoustic giving it a truly ethereal feel.
Glad you enjoy it!
Hello David,
Thank you for another of your fine, thought-provoking, exercises in finding the better (if not 'the best') of the recordings of various musical works, in this instance, Debussy's Images pour orchestre. I enjoy your explorations of a wide range of compositions, delivered with the panache which defines all of your presentations. Your comparison of this period of Debussy to Seurat's pointillist aesthetic in painting is, I believe, in the main, correct. My only addition would be to point out that he was known by the handle 'Georges Seurat,' rather than 'Jacques.' Keep these wonderful reviews and recommendations coming!
Whoops! Thanks for correcting that. Who ever hear of Sunday in the Park with Jacques? Silly of me.
I heard Boulez perform Debussy's Images in Cleveland around the same time he made the recordings for DG (the rest of the program was Debussy's Première rhapsodie and Stravinsky's Petruchka). He played the Images out of order (3, 1, 2 I believe) which threw me off. The recording puts them back in the right order, but I used to program them the way he did in concert.
I was there primarily to see Franklin Cohen perform the rhapsodie. He was my college professor's instructor. It may have been our seats, but the orchestra drowned him out. When we got back to school, we had an interesting masterclass. How do you criticize your professor's instructor? :-)
Salonen is my favorite with Tilson-Thomas in SF a close second. The sound in both the glorious.
My first Images, purchased at 15 or so at Woolworth or out of some budget bin, was Munch/BSO on RCA Victrola, paired with -- wait for it -- Barber's Medea's Meditation and Dance of Vengeance. Whoa! I can't really say that this became my go-to performance, great as it is. But it was my first deep dive into Debussy, especially his elusive and mercurial side, leading me to a lifetime of fascination.
And the Barber is the greatest.
Another great surprise. Apart from your good grasp of Spanish and your insight on Esteban Sanchez, your acknowledgement of Ataulfo Argenta make me think you might have some Spanish ancestry! Ataulfo Argenta was one of those too numerous emerging geniuses whom we could not enjoy as the matured. What he achieved in his limited Decca recordings only makes it more difficult, as to what could have been. I suppose you know the legend that says that many of his radio recordings with the National Orchestra of Spain where lost as they reused the tapes to record soccer games over them. Perhaps you have heard his Beethoven 3rd? It has some great moments, in my opinion, specially in the 2nd and 3rd movements. Anyway, his is a great Debussy recording. As is Baudo's, another favorite of mine. Thank you very much for so many enjoyable recommendations!
Actually, I am aware of Argenta's larger Spanish discography, especially the many Zarzuela discs. And my family (on my mother's side) does descend form Sephardic Jews who fled Spain during the Inquisition--or so I was told. They were traders from Cadiz or thereabouts.
I think you hit the nail on the head for me, I need a little muscle to truly enjoy Debussy and Munch has been my go-to conductor, although I have the ones paired with Ravel and Saint-Saens on RCA. Outside of that, I do enjoy Stokowski's Debussy, especially on that crazy Phase 4 sound, but I am not sure if he recorded the complete Images or just the Iberia portion. Thanks for the video!
I first got to know the Images around 1980 via the Andre Previn / LSO recording on LP. It was EMI's first digital release and it was a sensation at the time, so it is strange that it does not seem to be currently available (except maybe on a Japanese CD).
But I thought the music was ho-hum - and I still do. Maybe in another 40 years' time I'll get to like it.
By the way, like you I thought that Debussy never went to Spain. But it seems that he did make one brief visit - because he wanted to see a bullfight.
I have this one too and liked it at the time but haven't listened to it in quite awhile. I bought it on an early EMI CD in '85 and just dug it out to sample it and can hear that glassy early digital sound that's quite unpleasant, and Previn's conception seems to be of the lush, generic romantic orchestral music variety that may not suit the music entirely, and he's very lumbering in the Iberia. Probably stick with David's recommendations on this piece to get what it's all about.
Pamplona, I believe. Not too far from the French border 😀
"With that in mind, let's keep on listening..."
Amen, brother.
Often with your videos I have to consult my text database to see which of the recordings you've recommended that I actually own. Sometimes the congruency of results is good, sometimes not so good. Luckily, it turns out that I have Beinum, Tilson-Thomas/Boston, Martinon, and Boulez/Cleveland/Sony, and a bunch of others you didn't mention. So, not too bad.
Can't ever have too many, can we?
Bonjour David, I agree with your choices. I should add Stéphane Denève on Chandos too. What do you think of the Lan Shui on Bis (which I haven't listened yet) ?
Denève is great, Shui good but not remarkable (and very pricey), and I was on the fence regarding Cluytens too. There are others as well, but again, this was just one of those situations that I felt I had more than enough to talk about and I just drew the line after ten versions or so.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I understand. Thanks for your answer David, and keep on these excellent videos !
Hello Mr Hurwitz. I would like to ask you to talk about recordings of American symphonies. Copland, Harris, Piston, Schuman, Diamond, Barber, etc. I would also like to hear your opinion of the symphonies of Bax, Rubbra and Malcolm.
I will get to them--I'm just getting started, and I need material for the next several decades, so I wouldn't worry!
Wondering how you feel about Libor Pesek's version with the Czech Philharmonic vis a vis Baudo's? I haven't heard Baudo, but Pesek seems nice and crisp to me.
Yes, it's very good. Just not available easily (which I might talk about independently because it's all good).
I very much like the Tilson Thomas. Frankly, I think it's among the best things he's ever done. However, am I wrong in thinking the Haitink/Concertgebouw one is also quite good?
I think his Nocturnes is his best Debussy. Images had a kind of pale Iberia, but the other two were terrific. I was thinking about including them in the discussion, but I just wasn't sold on that Iberia. And I already had Beinum for purposes of this discussion.
Not ‘wrong’ by any means. For what it’s worth, the Haitink was awarded first place on BBC radio 3’s ‘Building a Library’ programme. I enjoyed growing up with the Haitink version but keen to investigate MTT and others after this video.
I prefer Thomas's remake to his earlier one because it is more characterful and doesn't drag.
The earlier one doesn't drag either. Not a bit.
@@DavesClassicalGuide the parfums drags. 9'42" vs. 8'46"
@@mistywalters Nonsense. One man's dragging is another man's atmosphere, within reasonable limits of course--and not to criticize your personal preference.
@@DavesClassicalGuidemy brain tells me. Hehe.
Anyway i provided lengths of both versions for your information.
@@mistywalters I know what the timings are. .I have the discs, remember? The fact that one is longer than the other doesn't mean the longer one is too slow, but if you find it so, then that's fine. I don't.
I for one did indeed pay attention to the Salonen LA Phil debussy disc. One of my favorite discs.
Ah, the Serge Baudo on Supraphon. You know I have that one as I am top heavy with the old Czech Philharmonic. Just listen to them! I think Baudo retired a few years back, if memory serves.
But wait, no Previn and the LSO? That one is regarded by many as one of the best, including me.
No it isn’t.
I've lived with Monteux's Images for decades on vinyl and then cd, wondering why I wasn't in line with reviewers in G magazine and the usual 'recommended recordings' tomes, who were gaga over it. Seemed rather slack, underpowered, docile. I've heard it done far better live (Andrew Davis and the Toronto Symphony) and on a World Record Club issue, with Munch I think. Must check out the Tilson Thomas, who impressed me with his Martyre de Saint Sebastian on Sony.
P.S. Buon compleanno! My next birthday qualifies me for Medicare -- oy!
If it's still there! Thanks.
Please David, promise me - "to never sing again...
Never. Deal with it.