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🔥 Harbor Freight MIG Wire VS. Lincoln MIG Wire: Is there a Difference? | MIG Monday
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- Опубліковано 26 чер 2016
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We sometimes get questions about brand name MIG wires vs Harbor Freight wire. Often times, they are difficult questions to answer, because there is not much independent testing on the subject.
In this video, we are going to test the Lincoln SuperARC L-56 (ER70S6) wire against the Harbor Freight ER70S6 wire. We will be using a Bug-O Systems GO-FER IV in order to take out any human error and let the wires speak for themselves.
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I love Paul he's great seem very humble and a great teacher. Hope everything is well with you Paul
If you do buy MIG wire from Harbor Freight, always look for the wire made in Italy. It has always welded smoother for me as opposed to the Lincoln L-56.
I found as a professional welder that with some of the cheaper wires, they have a small amount of rust on them and the copper wash also comes off easily which all adds up to clogging the tips and liners. I live in the UK and first came up against this in the mid to late 90's when cheap wire from eastern Europe and Russia started to come onto the market and my local welding supplier started to ship it to me instead of higher quality material I ended up changing suppliers over the issue, but even some well known brands at that time started to offer two grades the lower one being the cheap import. If you have start clearing birds nests and changing liners and tips it soon makes sense to go for the high quality wire, it's cheaper in the end.
I can hear Paul hesitate every time he says "the bargain product". I bet he's trying not to say "the cheap sh*t".
Looking at the results, I would contend that the HF wire would have penetrated as much as the Lincoln wire had the stick out been the same.
I run a millermatic 350p at home. I've ran kiswell wire, harbor freight wire and a few others, all run shitty. It does love L-56 wire and that's all I run in it.
I have a Lincoln Power Mig 210. I tried Weldcote wire and had some feed problems, the Lincoln wire works flawlessly. as far as stick goes, the Weldcote runs just as well as the Lincoln. I always run the Lincoln wire now.
I was thinking of a comment, and you hit the nail on the head by saying consistency. I bet if you guys tested 100 different rolls (not that you would) there would be a greater difference on quality throughout. Good info! Thanks
This is the type of video that I find very valuable. Well done. My only question would be, maybe the HF wire had a different 'sweet spot' where it to would have performed as well? Such as up or down just a bit on the amperage. In reality you would be adjusting your machine for whatever wire you used so it would still be a fair comparison. I would look for things like not burning off consistently or hard starting as more important for home use. Good video. Doug
Having just bought my first mig welding m/c, (I'm 74) any information is very useful.
I've saved this channel, and I'll be watching as many demo's as I can that are relevant, before I actually put torch to metal.😊
I always use Lincoln wire in my everlast welder. Great arc and great welds. I don't mess with a good thing.
He had longer stick out on HF wire. Not saying HF wire is good, but to be fair stick out should be measured and equal on each run.
I totally notice that as well, wasnt sure at 1st but now someone else as seen it it confirms it.
Not only the stick out but angle pointing at the joint seems a little different, maybe i need glasses but they look diffenrent.
Would it make a ton of diffenrece? maybe not, but when comparing, everything counts.
I could not see the difference but I could sure hear the difference. The HF was much quitter than the Lincoln. Defiantly caused by stick length difference.
You could see the puddle size changing with the HF wire - not as consistent.
First, stick length was different. This changes everything. Comparing apples to oranges. Second, look at the cross cut. Lincoln had more of bull nose to it, loose of integrity relative to metal laid. Look at the under cut on the cross cut. Lincoln looses hands down on that. I am not advocating one over the other. I am saying that the test was uneven. This was a poor test! Love to do a stress test on both. Also, wire feed to high or speed and amps to low. Poor welds for both.
I still stress the stress test as the most important. You can have the prettiest weld, but if your trailer hitch or what ever does not hold, you are F**ked. I used a stick welder and 7014 rod, and it looked better than those two. I did a stress test on my welds. I cut an auto spring and welded it back together. Put that in a 12 ton press. The spring broke but the weld held. This is normal because the welding does weaken the metal near the weld. This is how you do a stress test but with gauges to confirm the strength of the weld.
I would really like to see a stress test done side by side with welded samples from both. I would like to see if one cracks or breaks much sooner than the other.
the arc and the sound they made where different as well the cheapo wire was unstable and the good wire was way more stable. also I find good wire more forgiving when you are working with less then ideal metal prep. and more forgiving in general try this test with a harbor freight welder as well the with mill scale on the results will shock you at how good the Lincoln wire works.
Exactly
Damn, I was hoping I could blame my crappy welds on the cheap chinese wire lol.....
fuzzy wuzzy The internet was so much better before Walmart started selling $30 smart phones...
Josh Washington yes, when barriers to entry were higher pre-smartphone days, it was good.
Josh Washington same
Josh Washington lmfao
We can still blame the wire if you don't let your friends see this video. Great job!
THANK YOU SO MUCH PAUL! Finally an instructional series that is down to earth. practical and is delivered in an understandable explicit way. GREAT! I am hooked. You JUST saved me a ton of unneeded expense in a stainless steel job I got because I was able to meet the customer's budget in using some mild steel, my regular wire and gas for something that he was not so concerned about corrosion nor structure. Job came out great, I made a buck or two and the customer was pleased (SO pleased that he's bringing me more and more work). PAUL you ROCK!!!!!! Thank you again and PLEASE keep these great videos coming!!!!
P.S. I'm teaching myself Oxy/Acetylene welding aluminum (with only a 1940s Audels Welders Guide that I found in an antique store for guidance). Do your or your colleagues have and videos for this? Also would like to see Mig Welding Aluminum videos (saving up for my spool gun for my Lincoln 120 volt welder). Thanks again!
Honestly think this man can weld with anything and still make a weld bead look pretty
your video was short sweet and to the poing not too much talking not too little talking it was perfect for what i needed thank you sir
I'd love to see this done with the harbor freight flux core wire. Great video!!
We'll add it to the list.
From my experience it's night and day. It would be cool to see it objectively tested though.
Larry Bolan Yeah I agree.
Weld.com Thanks.
Got a 10# spool of INE brand GS type flux-core wire, used it to replace the Harbor Freight wire that came with it when it ran out. The INE wire felt like it ran a lot smoother, produced a lot less slag than the Harbor Freight wire, but produced about the same amount of spatter.
Just got a Hobart 140. I'm sure I won't be going through a ton of wire so I'll stick with the "good stuff", but I wouldn't fault anyone who want to save a few bucks.
hi have tried some expensive solid wire and I can say it makes a big difference ! no jams smoother welding, just feels easier to weld. thanks for doing the test .
this was the most objective and unbiased comparison I've ever seen on UA-cam. Ilk subscribing!
wow. great informative video with a scientific outlook on it. kudos. now a video of specific name brand wires vs each other.
Another thing to consider is that material certificates may be required under certain circumstances. Last time I checked, HF doesn't offer material certificates other than the general statement of an AWS category.
I tried a roll of HF wire once. I ran out on a weekend when my welding store was closed. The HF wire would run about 10 seconds and stop because the feed rollers were spinning out. I believe the problem was the copper coating on the wire (or whatever it is) was sloppy. Instead of a nice consistent coating like quality wire there were a lot of bare spots, that almost looked like they had a little rust on them. The roll was sealed in plastic albeit wasn't packaged as well as Lincoln wire. I even tried cranking up the tension but it didn't help. I looked at another roll at the HF store and it had the same problem so I asked for a refund, which they did without question.
Maybe it was just a bad lot of wire but this cost me a lot of time. Now I make sure I have spare spools of good wire at all times.
Hope this helps - your mileage may vary...
We have run into the same problem with the HF wire. In our case, the wire breaks right where it exits the rollers about every 20 mins of welding. Such a PITA! Too bad the reviewer didn't notice or comment on this issue!
bad luck - really, im a pro welder, body man, industrial mechanic and autotech and i have tried hf wire and runs perfect for what i use it for
i think that the key on how to properly do better welds is not really on how expensive a welding wire is - bc they both will yield basically same tensile strenght - but on how good of a student you were at welding school
as it is sugested by the host, there's really not much of a difference on both performances (here as it was seen on the video), but if you have a technical eye, you will notice that hf wire requires more heat, and that of course requires more running time = better welds 👈
iow, if you went to welding school, like we did, you will practice first and then get a real appreciation of what you are doing, like everything else you do - if you understand what i mean
i love lincoln wire but when you are thight in your budget you wil do miracles with hf feed welding wire as an option, trust me 🍻🍺
@@rubbermallet3873 how much was welding school?
@@dmeads5663 I took a MIG class at a local tech school for like $130 or something. Funnest class I ever took
It would be interesting to repeat this test today. On many products from Asia, quality control has improved.
Your impartiality is much appreciated. There's definitely a difference, however slight. The necessity of consistency and strength gives the premium wire the upper hand.
Also note that different brand wires sometimes need different settings. Hell, sometimes different batches of wire needs some settings tweaking.
Very good video and comparison. Please do another using the same wires and readjust the settings to the best for the Harbor Freight wire and then use those settings for the Lincoln. Also adjust the gun to weld right in the root of the joint. Also do the comparison just using a manual weld by hand with the best settings for each and then cut and etch. Thank you.
Eddie Kawecki I do the same thing. Turn up the heat just a little and get better penetration. I still use the the good stuff.
I truly appricicate your time.. This is truly invaluable information.
Great info thanks for the effort setting up this test!
having worked in a tool shop where we sold welding gear, there is quite a difference between the cheap and expensive in my opinion. always using the cheap for demo's we got some really expensive(x4 times the price) wire in and oh man was it smooth, clean and penetrated well. we also noticed when comparing gasless wire cheap always gassed off more and splattered more compared to the higher priced wire. but it's horses for.course really. if it's critical welding spend the money on good rods or wire.
Thanks, Paul. I'd suggest viewers switch back 'n forth between the two welds. It's obvious the Lincoln wire burns brighter with a larger arc, perhaps an indication of heat produced?
Excellent EXCELLENT video! More videos should be like this. Not 10 minutes of intro music and mumbling. Clear audio. No echo. Clear video. Purposeful demonstration. Unbiased review. Thanks! Incidentally, I'm a very amateur welder. If the HF was slightly under penetrating and you learned how it works or you cut a sample, couldn't you just turn up the voltage slightly to compensate and get deeper penetration? As for consistency, I see the difference. Just asking about the penetration factor.
Great video, I always wondered if that stuff was any good. I do a lot of body work, and love the Lincoln .023 ER70
Would you say the 023 wire is good for up to 3/16 thickness material?
I tried harbor freight flux core vs Lincoln flux core and it was a significant different in quality. As a new welder on flux core mig I went from terrible to less terrible switching to the Lincoln wire. I also suspect this will be the same using TIG filler rods.
With flux core there is a huge difference between a quality wire and a cheap wire but when it comes to TIG filler and to a lesser extent mig wire, since they are just metal, the differences are pretty miniscule. the only variables really come to the purity of the exact metal alloy. not that I would necessarily go out of my way to acquire cheap filler but you won't notice a huge difference. for my TIG filler I use the brand blue demon and for Mig wire I use INE. both are reasonably priced and of very good quality. Also I believe both are available on Amazon if you can't find them locally
Now go from that Lincoln Flux Core to Forney and have your mind blown. Even better, get some INETUB BA71TGS. Cheaper than Harbor Freight at $15 a roll, (in)arguably the greatest flux core wire on the market. Almost feels like youve entered a cheatcode if youve been using HF or Lincoln for awhile.
Exelent quality comparative. I would like a similar comparative in fcaw. Thanks
From what I understand HF flux core is only good for single pass only. I wouldn't have a problem with using HF solid core for light or medium duty work but for anything heavy duty like frame work just for peace of mind I will use premium. For work that needs to be inspected most spec sheets will mandate branded wires.
I really like the method you used to compare these products. First class equipment in a controlled environment; repeatable. If I may say, both weld profiles are not AWS specification. Having said that, my comment does not dilute the test. You are correct: the Lincoln product did better. I am a student at American River College Welding department, Sacramento. This level is not taught for hobby welders doing DIY repair. The Harbor Freight wire is sufficient. Beyond that level, the cost of welding and the result demands top quality materials. Again, thank you for the demonstration.
i run a miller delta weld 302. BIG welder. i buy wire in 550 lb barrels. big difference in wire. i tried cheep many times. never worked out. medium to high quality wire is always best
Well done Paul! I think it was a very fair comparison of the two products. I liked how you presented the facts and let folks make their own decisions.
thank you sir, that was and incredible demonstration of your technical ability regarding this issue 👍
I'm retired and help (volunteer) teach highschool welding, at one of the last schools in the USA that has a weld/machine shop. ((Admin did not give us much support for a long time. Even talked of closing shop classes down. Our wire came from the steam fitters union. But after the first year of covid , admin started to give us knuckle draggers some attention $$ with support for teaching the trades!? Came from higher up the food chain I heard. 👍)) so our mig and rod supplies from the Union guys was clean plastic wrapped USA made spools. Welded fine on our 7 machines for the years we had it. We ran low and filled in with some Horrid Freight wire for a while. Seemed to have more bind ups in the tubes and tips. And our felt wipes on wire before tubes is filthy a lot? Now that might be ok for the backyard hobby guy for his welds. We've gotten complacent that way.
Now Most of these kids are welding for the first time ever. We're not testing their welds except for the occasional bend till it breaks type. Just trying to get their feet wet. But I and the instructor never miss a minute to tell them how it was in the old days, when we bought from, and supported, our country and the goods it produced. I hope some will remember that. * *A couple of those students are going to inherit some fine welders from their fathers and uncles, and me, that are gathering dust back in the barn and garage across our nation. And I hope they remember what we talked about.
Now your free to buy what you like and can afford. And good luck with your projects.
I rub Vulcan wire by Harbor Freight. It runs about the same for me as the Lincoln wire but for much less cost per pound. Have done an etch in a while.
What a delightful no-nonsense presenter.
Great video, and sir you can lay down an awesome bead. I always enjoy watching a pro at their craft. 👍👍
the lincoln looked to have more spatter than the harbor frt but like you said its about penitration
Thank you for performing these tests very helpful!
I’ve found here in Denver that 2 pounders are cheaper at the LWS than at Hazard Fraught.
Great video as usual. I'm glad you use the automated welder due to the users skills and habits (good and bad) can affect the quality of the welds.
Hey Paul, glad to see your still up and kicking. I'll say HI for you to the gang back at Lincoln Electric.
Makes sense, the bargain wire is made at the same wire drawing manufacturer just “regraded for alternate use” when it doesn’t meet the higher grade standards.
there was more stickout with the harbor freight wire... go cheap on the wire and expensive on the welder.
Good video. I was pleased to see that you gave each a fair judgement and your opinion on each was very good.
i love your videos they tought my little sister how to get started on welding and she now working at a steel mill out here where I live. thank you so much for your time and consideration of your educational videos
Shaun Hernandez
Great video. Gonna try the Lincoln wire.
Just watched their video on mig wire. Excellent quality control. Consistent batches.
I need all the help that I can get. 🙂
Been to the Lincoln plant. And got the tours (both as a customer and as a vendor) They DO make their own. Price difference really isn't an issue. The extra $4 for Harvey Homemaker, is cheap insurance. No business is going to us HF wire for their product. (Does HF sell a drum size) Bead profile? Both are positive radius.
I tried the HF flux core and the spatter was awful, also it didn't feed very well either, I didn't use the whole roll.
thanks for the video,always had that thought in my mind,now I know,thank you...
Thanks for the info, I've always wondered about that.
From what I can see penetration is very, very close if not the same. Maybe a little bit of impurity om the finished HF bead. I would say its a draw. Ive used HF wire with decent results. The main issue I have found with weld quality being a cheap gun & tip making decent contact.
The harbour freight wire was welded with 1/4 less stick out then the Lincoln wire. Both tests were not the same. 3:20 Lincoln and 4:30 harbour freight different stick out
HF was off center too
HF?
Al R Harbor Frieght
Yeh sorry brain fart.
Excellent video. Just the facts and data with the decision left up to the buyer. Very nice; thank you!
I believe if you ever so slightly modified your amperage you'd probably get the same penetration. Maybe not quite the same bead profile or whatever but the harbor freight stuff seems to be fairly adequate for most DIY home jobs. I've even noticed with the good quality stuff that sometimes you have to adjust the amperage cannot keep it the same roll for roll. Sometimes there seems to be a slight variation
Nowadays If I'm welding a vehicle frame or something like that then yeah I will step up and buy name brand wire. Then again I'm not using my home welder either. For simple stuff like welding Parts on to my trailer or whatever or other crap around the house it's 💯 % adequate.
years when I was young, I built my entire bumpers, all with a Hobart 135 Handler using all Harbor Freight wire. I towed trailers and even a car not to mention everything in between. I also built a roof rack to hold my spare 31 in mud tire on the roof and still never had a problem with that either. But then again I have always welded for structural integrity rather than how pretty it looks.
I use the harbor freight wire on my miller 135 machine and had trouble with rusting between use as the brand name did not.
I usually buy Lincoln MIG wire...$95 for 33 pound roll, but well worth the $$ over the $40 for Chinese stuff....If you run a lot of wire, you'll notice the quality difference....and
Buy the Chinese wire and deal with a lot more spatter...
I ran my own small welding shop for a few years.....learned right away you can't 'cheap out'.....on anything....
As a bunch of other people have noted, the stickout was greater on the HF test, and too much, you could hear it. That could be the cause for the inconsistent bead size/shape. Looks like the settings weren't great for either and neither have great penetration (for that thickness wire and steel). I suspect neither would do well in destructive testing.
I've run a lot of both of those wires (well the same wires, but they both had different labels on them, the HF wire had a bright red/almost pink sticker on it). All the HF wire that I've run has been good and consistent. I've had 2 spools of L56 that I returned to the LWS because they just would not weld well. I suspect that age of the wire and how it's stored has more of an effect on the performance (I think you get some rusting under the copper cladding, though I don't know for sure) then the original source. I don't think I've seen any HF wire that had a made in China label (I think it was made in Italy or somewhere similar), and I'm pretty sure that the L56 I've seen around here is made in Mexico or Italy.
Thank you!
Just came across your channel. Did not take long to hit the subscribe button. Keep them coming.
The first weld was a beautiful weld .
I had a horrible experience with HF wire. Id go with Lincoln!
Nice video! I used to work in a small specialty shop that made many products for a large US company that supplied a niece' part of the cutting and welding industry (gas & electric.)
Interesting to see the difference.
Best video and explanation ever, congratulations Sr.
Hi,Paul.you are so "technical".you shake my confidence on HF wire.but i still prefers HF wire because of its price and near high quality performance.thanks
Excellent video. I don't see how anyone could not like this video, though I noticed a few. It was concise, to the point, and completely objective. I wish more videos gave me this much good information for this amount of viewing time.
Good comparison and nice job on video. Thanks.
Up here in Canada we have Princess Auto which is similar to Harbour Freight, I quit buying the cheap stuff because the size was too inconsistent, when the .030 wire doesn't fit through a .030 Lincoln tip it's a pain in the ass.
Yes sir, I did learn something from the video ,firstly, that was an honest appraisal of the products and also that you were speaking to ordinary people and not experts . However(and this is no criticisme) the types of machine and lots of other parameters were not discussed.I also realised that learning at a professional course leaves A LOT to be desired .However I learned in France which probably explains the deficiences. Thank you for the input.
Hey thanks Paul, I appreciate your time and knowledge
Is there any difference in the ease of use? Sometimes, "cruder" materials are more difficult to work with..... Of course, this is a reference to hand-held welding....
I like how you put it in perspective. Thanks.
The money shot here would be a stress test. That is far more important than how the weld looks.
What about .025 on sheet metal? As in car panels. Using a Lincoln HD180 240 volt.
Vulcan wire is more expensive than Lincoln. I buy a bunch on things at HF, but the Vulcan wire just don't make sense to me.
If you are a beginner hobby welder, beware of a buildup of small differences. For the competent welder, it may not matter which wire he buys.
However, a couple of months ago I bought a new MIG welder, MIG wire, etc. My neighbour bought a MIG welder last year. He bought the cheapest welder, the cheapest wire, the cheapest visor, etc etc. I bought a higher priced welder, higher priced visor, and premium MIG wire. At this time, I can do quite nice welds, and he's still struggling - wants to sell his welder. Now that I have mastered the art, I can probably drop back to cheaper wire.
One other thing to take into account is the potential lack of consistency of a cheaper brand. You would expect Lincoln to make sure the wire is the same quality over time, Harbor Freight, not so much... as we have seen in many items from them. You may have received a sample that shows as adequate for home use for this test, but who knows what you'll get 6 months later...
Some of the cheap stuff is ok but the quality control can be iffy so sometimes its good and sometimes its awful. I just get the lincoln wire for my everlast welder and dont worry about it.
I have a 90amp HF flux core wire welder and use the lincoln flux core wire bought at Home depot. it works much better than the wire from HF. or should I say what the welder came with.
ALSOOOO depends on the welder lol ... I’ve seen pro welders weld with cheap wire or electrodes and made their welds look as good as the premium grade wire/electrodes ... but that’s just my 2cents kinda like racing .. might have a fast car but also depends on the driver
hard to tell, but i think i read Made in India on the HF spool. there are 2 suppliers, the other is Made in Italy. i run the Italian spool with zero problems in my Miller 211. both are in same location, so sort through and only buy the Made in Italy spool.
Very helpful video. I really appreciate this type of comparison.
I never miss them.
Great video ! Been Welding on my own for over 7 years doing mobile jobs and I’ve used the cheapest wire to the most expensive wire on the shelf and Lincoln wire is the best I’ve ever used ! I will never try to save a buck using crappy wire ever again ! As. Far as Welding rod . Lincoln also has the best rods , Randar sucks
How have I not found this channel yet!
Nou i have only ever welded Professionally therefore never used the cheapest stuff. The main differences though i have experienced are the stiffness of the wire and some wires were spooled less neatly. Depending on your equipment both at times least to feeding issues. Though i must say Professional level wires only rarely have those of you know your equipment and use it properly.
So excellent view thank u. Now unsteady home owner should buy the better wire by your test for best results: your test was under excellent conditions
The Harbor Freight fluxcore works okay. the wire diameter varies. I had issues with it hanging up in liner. Spend the extra and get the Lincoln brand.
Do that same test mixing a couple of preiuem brands without changing settings and the results will vary, I'm willing to bet.
I'm subscribing just because that work bench is kick ass
Good stuff. I'm a production welder mig I buy a lot of HF junk, cutting and grinding wheels, air tools, auto tint cheap hoods, etc. Some of its good, some of its adequate, some of its junk ! The auto tint hoods have been excellent for me and incredibly cheap, I've been using the same one for three yrs 40 hrs a week! Their gloves are junk, won't even last a day. Grinding and cutting wheels are cheap and don't last long, but they're cheap. I usually just turn my welder up all the way and slice right through 18 ga sheet metal instantly! Lol!